Sunset Boulevard / Benchmark Bonded Bourbon

0:00 All right, everybody today's episode is sponsored by blind barrels. A company that offers an exclusive blind, whiskey tasting experience, Bob and I tried their product in season 6 and it led directly to the sad because we are such huge fans of what they are doing. If you are interested in sampling, the very best in American craft whiskey, then use our code film 10 at their checkout for 10% off a yearly, or quarterly subscription or even office. Single box to try it out. And remember if you're hunting for rare Whiskey's, you can always buy. By the whiskey you've tried on their website often at prices cheaper than MSRP. Check them out at blind. Barrels.com and use code film ten for ten percent off on your order.

0:40 In 1950 director, Billy Wilder and star, William Holden gave the world a gloomy film about the dangers of unchecked Fame. In 2023, we gotta Brad, we just keep the training role in here with Benchmark. Think we're like forfeits of the way through. Now I have nothing. Clever to say. Yeah, you think we're for? I'm not quite sure. But I think we've done four out of five, The film is Sunset Boulevard. The whiskey is Benchmark bonded, and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast.

1:36 Welcome to the Film and whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and this week we are moving into our second director of the Season. It is that lauded writer-director of Classic Hollywood, Billy Wilder. And Brad, this may be the first movie that we're doing from Wilder this season, but it's our fourth, Billy Wilder movie overall. So, I think that after this miniseries is done, he will be probably our third The most-watched director behind Scorsese and Spielberg. I think he's going to be like tied up with Hitchcock at this point. Holy cow. That is quite a few. Have we done five?

2:20 How many Hitchcock films have we done? I think we've done for so far so he'll be he'll be in the lead and then Hitchcock's going to lap him at the end of the season here. I would say Hitchcock might be our most watched director by the end of the season. I know right McCoy. Put 55 Hitchcock's films at the end. Season 7. Listen, you do what you gotta do man on the Wilder front though. We're watching this movie last night Brad, and you're juicing me, and you're like that. Right? There is a billy Wilder fan podcast on the wild. So we're watching this movie last night and you send me a text in your like comparing it to Some Like It Hot and the apartment. And I had to remind you that Double Indemnity was also a billy Wilder film.

3:05 Hmm. So I guess my Opening two questions to you Brad are. Do you feel like you have a grip on Billy Wilder, as both writer and director at this point? And how do you see Sunset Boulevard fitting in with the three movies? We've seen to this point? I I feel like I do have a pretty good grip on Billy Wilder, as a writer as a director, you can tell that he wants to push boundaries. Mmm. You know, in 2023, looking back on the 50s. It's hard to see that sometimes, but if you have any idea of what the, what was the commission called that would review movies that, you know, Hitchcock would get in fights with the Hays code? The Hays code?

3:50 Yeah. The the, the Hays code was wild and, and you could just tell that Billy Wilder is uninterested in holding up the status quo or Pro, you know, pro-america type of stuff. Honestly, it kind of reminds me of when we talked about David lean and His films are like weirdly, anti British establishment. Like I feel kind of similarly about Wilder. I think that with Sunset Boulevard, for me personally, I've there was too much, and I know this isn't him as a director, but there is too much All About Eve and not enough Double Indemnity. Hmm.

4:32 I really love that comparison, especially I'm will get into talking about this but especially because all About Eve is the film that beats Sunset Boulevard for the best picture. Oscar, in this year, they both came out the same year. Yeah. And so they've kind of been inexorably linked for, you know, 70-something years. Now I think our audience will believe me. When I say, I genuinely didn't know that. I didn't know that basic fact, that I could have looked up at any point. I mean, you know, I'm not just going to go look up 1951 Academy Award. No, I know it's not like you host a movie podcast or anything. Let's get that. Let's get the hot Goss on 1951, Oscars.

5:14 I want to go back to something. You were saying about Wilder just a second ago though, and I think that a part of why he is able to so incisively just kind of dissect American culture is because hey, he's an immigrant and be. I just got this book from the library just came in today and I'm so bummed I didn't get to look at it before we record. Boarded this. But the book is all about a group of Hollywood directors that were Jewish immigrants from Europe and how all of them in different ways were attracted to much darker storytelling that got into like the underbelly of things in Hollywood or in America, in general and Wilder is one of them. And I think that those two things, you know, in tandem with each other that not only is he an immigrant but he's an immigrant who comes to America, you know, as the rise of fascism is happening in Europe.

6:07 He's coming with a ton of cynicism and yet he kind of Falls in line with the big literary figures of the time, right? I mean, you know, people like F Scott Fitzgerald obviously had died at this point, but when I read a book, like The Great Gatsby and I look at the cynicism and the skepticism of American culture in a book like that and then I look at what Wilders doing its really is in the same vein. And I think that you can really plot Wilder kind of like on a Drum you know I guess the Spectrum would be my favorite Wilder movies to my least favorite well their movies but great Spectrum. You know, it's a very personal Spectrum Brad but I think sometimes he gets so biting and so relentless with the cynicism that it makes the movie harder to enjoy and we'll get into talking about all this but this movie comes you know, it's one of the first films released in the 1950s and it really kicks off this wave of film Noir coming out of the He's an into the 50s, which is kind of the back, half of the popularity of film Noir where things get really, really dark.

7:13 And the, and the protagonists are less and less likable, and they have less and less that you can relate with, and there's really nobody, you can root for in any of these movies. And I think Sunset Boulevard For Better or For Worse, is kind of the Prototype of that. What year did the apartment come out? 1960. That's really interesting because I feel like that movie, like, teetered on the edge. Of being too dark to be enjoyable, but I feel like he towed the line. They're much better than he does here. Like I saw somewhere that this is described as like a black comedy and I just like the apartment, I can see that, like, there's a Darkness there that still, there's the comedic elements override it and the end.

8:00 Whereas this one, I don't think I really found myself laughing all. Is that all they like there's a few good lines that you kind of laugh at and that was about it. Yeah, I think the some of the situations are set up to be kind of Darkly funny, but a lot of it is Hollywood in jokes and jokes isn't even really the appropriate word because it's not it's not a funny movie in a lot of parts. It's cynical it's really biting but it's not like a chuckle Fest, right? And the way that they break down the Hollywood System, it's not done in good fun the way it's done a couple years after this liking singing in the Rain. It's a completely different takedown of the Hollywood system and I think where your bit where you been reading those things Brad? It's probably because you got to really know Hollywood history. I don't want to say to enjoy this film, but to enjoy it to its fullest potential the same way that you would. If they made, you know, if they made a movie like this today and I guess the, the analog to today would be this movie. That just came out last year, from Damien, chazelle Babylon, which deals with again, the silent era, but Wilder is dealing with the end of the silent era and then 1950 being present day, you're talking about, like 23 years between the time.

9:16 The talkies are introduced in the time. This movie comes out, so it would be as if we were referencing things from the late 90s, in a movie, that came out today. And then you're asking somebody 70 years on from now, to understand all of our, like, Backstreet Boys references or something. So it's like, you gotta, you gotta have a little bit of background. I think for this movie to make a Senses it needs to. So I think it's time for us to segue into America's favorite segment which we call Brad explains that's gonna give us the movie plugged with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock. So let's go ahead and do you take with this little segment that we call? Brad explains? Yes, Brad explains the part of the podcast, where Brad breaks down the film that he has just seen often for the first time. This is very much Brad's first time seeing Sunset Boulevard and I wise folks that we've been talking about this for you know Nayan 10 minutes now.

10:11 And if you haven't seen the movie, then you have no idea what we're talking about. Sunset Boulevard is perhaps Billy Wilder's. Highest regarded movie ever is consistently ranked in the top 20 American movies ever made. But like I said, you have to have a lot of background to understand this movie and so Brad is going to at least fill in the background that you guys need which is the plot of the movie. Now again this is a spoiler filled We're going to get Brad, you have 60 seconds on the clock to break down the plot of Sunset Boulevard and go. William Holden is playing a young man named Joe. Gillis who is a b-level script writer in Hollywood, and he is down on his luck. He's about to lose his car to some creditors and and being chased by them down, a street.

10:59 He blows a flat, he pulls into a mansion and he finds out that this Mansion was owned is owned by. And by a silent era movie star named Norma Desmond. Now he slowly gets pulled into a opportunity to rewrite a terrible script that she's writing and he uses this to try to make some money and swindle this. This older woman, she eventually sucks him in with all the money and nice things and he moves in there. There's a butler 10 seconds. Is her ex-husband, he writes a script with Young lady, and she's the worst and kills him.

11:41 The young lady. Sorry, the young lady, no Norma Desmond. All right, well Brad, you've done it again, man. I feel like we are in an even more muddy. Murky fought the yeah. Alright, let's talk a little bit about Sunset Boulevard, so Brad, where do you want to start today? Do you want to kind of get some of like the Hollywood history stuff on the table so that we have a context to work with With, do you want to dive into Billy Wilder? Don't want a donut. Don't say anything else. Okay. Just the first one. I watched this movie last night, and it's my first time watching it in probably 10 years. But I found myself saying, how in the hell did he get away with this movie?

12:24 Because 99.9% of the characters in this movie and the names that are dropped in this movie are real people who are like very much alive when this movie is released because They're referring to an era in Hollywood history. That's not even a quarter Century old. At this point, you know, Cecil B Demille is an actor in this movie. Playing Cecil B Demille, the famous movie director and Norma Desmond, played by Gloria Swanson. Gloria Swanson is a real movie star from the silent film era. So when Billy Wilder writes this movie about this aging silent movie star who's going mad. He goes looking for real silent movie stars and when she's playing whatever game, Playing bridge or gin rummy or whatever.

13:08 It is with what William Holden calls, the waxworks, her old Hollywood friends. All three of those people playing cards with her are real people from silent film era Hollywood and it's just amazing. First of all to me that they like that people would sign on to this movie. Knowing the attitude with which the character of Joe William Holden is like so dismissive of them and calling them old and calling them. And talking about people like Gloria Swanson, like it just blows my mind that he got this many names attached to this movie to sign on to make a movie in which they're basically playing themselves and in which no one pities them and like everyone's kind of crapping on them, he gets Paramount Pictures to put the name Paramount, Pictures in them like it, they don't make up a fake studio for this stuff to all be happening at.

14:01 It's like, yeah, this stuff all happened at Paramount and then Paramount releases the movie like yeah, I guess it. Did happen here, didn't it? It's just like, it's, it's crazy to me, I can't imagine a studio, a set of celebrities signing on to something like this today. Do you think that the message of the movie kind of went over people's heads? That like do you think that they just read it a little more at surface level? And they were like yeah, this is kind of a tragic story of a woman who lets stardom go to her head and, and here's the results, I think it's kind of both. And because I know that Billy Wilder and his writing partner, Charles bracket, we're writing the script kind of as they went through the movie too.

14:48 And part of that was because they didn't want to give away too much to the studio. And so they'd give them like bits and pieces as they went in the studio. 30 at that point. Billy Wilder was kind of such a Golden Boy at Paramount that they were like, yeah, sure. This sounds great and let him do whatever he wanted, but I do think you're right. Brad that, I don't know that. Anyone anticipated, what a gigantic middle finger, this was to everyone in the Hollywood ecosystem, including Wilder himself because I think that there's definitely stand-ins like Wilder wrote stand-ins for himself into this movie and I think he implicates himself in the way that Hollywood spits up and choose out people in the width. That's portrayed on screen here, too. So, there's a lot of, really interesting layers to this movie, and I think that's it's almost more interesting to talk about that and who represents who, and who's implicated. And what's the message then?

15:41 Talking about what actually plays out on screen in some ways? Well, so who was Billy wilder than was? Was he the producer at the start? That kind of, you know, won't really help them out. I don't know man. I think for me, I like he's partially William Holden. He's the guy that thinks too highly of himself and is just like, kind of a about everything and doesn't seem to be satisfied with anything. He's, you know, he's the asshole writer. He's also Max the live in director of old that is now her Butler and I think like you know if we can really get into spoilers here, Brad the last scene in the movie where after she has killed, Joe, she has completely become detached from reality and she goes back up into her bedroom and she's putting on makeup.

16:25 And when The news cameras come and film her as the cops arrest her. She thinks she's back on a movie set for the first time and it is this really like truly heartbreaking and disturbing ending because she finally gets what she's but she's been craving a camera to be turned on her this whole movie. And now they finally are in the most tragic way. And what does Max have to do to get her to come down the stairs? He has to assume the role of director and yell. A Shin to basically dupe her into going into her doom. And I think that whether Wilder admit would admit it or not, I think he's kind of implicating himself. He's implicating directors in that. We are the people being directors that build these people up into Idols that put them on a screen and that make them lose all sense of reality and humanity and who they are because we are directing and marching them into their Doom. Like, I really do think he's implicating himself in that. Well, here's the spicy bit then, which actor today will be just completely bat losing it crazy in 20 years. I'm not gonna go there, man.

17:42 Dude, you're trying to get me in trouble. Today, I can tell whoops. Who's gonna move from Hollywood, is gonna listen to this product? All right, man. Let's, let's dive into performances because will unfold a little bit more of the Ins and the layers as we identify the people who act in this movie. So who would you like to start with Brad? I mean, let's just start at the top for this one because partially, because I don't think anybody will know any of the other actors other than William Holden. So yeah, let's start with Joe Gillis. Mr. William Holden himself. Here's my question for you, Brad. And this is our third William Holden movie on the podcast after Bridge on the River, Kwai and Network.

18:26 Is William Holden a good actor. Mmm. I like him in network a lot, I do too but even a network I don't buy the dialogue that he's spouting and it's great dialogue. You know what I mean? I was going to say, I literally just watch that the other day and I realized that movie is just like 40 monologues back to back to back and they're all good and they're all, they're all good and like maybe like 10 of the 40 are incredible. Yeah, yeah. Um, is Will I am holding a good actor. He is a good-looking actor, huh. I mean he takes his shirt off, man. And I'm like, oh, wow, dude, dude, dude was working out.

19:10 Here's the thing about William Holden, and I think it's a combo of William Holden, and the character that keeps me from loving this movie. Because, like I said, I think that Joe Gillis the character tips too far. Hmm. How do I phrase this I think to make a good film Noir character. We talked with Double Indemnity about how sex is like a driving force in film Noir. Like someone's always getting seduced. Some dude is just listening with the wrong head and getting led into things that he shouldn't be and gets you know ends up getting killed 99 percent of the time, I think you have to really strike a balance or be on a spectrum where one end is like complete horn, dog, and the other Is like piece of shit and I think Joe Gillis is a piece of shit.

19:59 I wish that he had a little bit more of the like self-deprecating not taking anything too seriously attitude that Fred MacMurray brought into Double Indemnity which is like, he just always looked bemused. Where is Joe? Gillis always looks like he's just like miserable and judging everybody and again like you don't have to make your protagonist be likeable person and Billy Wilder. Did a hell of a job with Joe. Gilles. But because everyone in this movie is a victim, and everyone in this movie is also a perpetrator. It kind of makes you wonder, like, who do I latch onto to get myself through this movie? And I think the combo of Joe Gillis not being a great character, and William Holden, probably not being the perfect choice for this role keeps me from going all-in on this movie. Here's a question for you.

20:52 So, outside of the fact that this is a new are like, why why do you think that this movie chose to go? The murder route instead of the him running off with Betty at the end of the film because the like there's nothing about his character as written that makes me think he wouldn't leave with Betty that like why does he resign himself as a character? I guess this is kind of getting more into the script writing portion of it but like why does he resign himself as a character to a destitute life and Dayton Ohio?

21:32 I think that that's a good question. I think that part of that character has that sort of like, martyrdom, like, oh, I have to always be the struggling writer. I also think that, like, I would have hated this movie, if it had ended that way. Because he didn't deserve a happy ending truly. I mean, this from the bottom of my heart, he is a piece of shit and like, he, he, he pretty much deserves everything that happens to him in this movie. He has a, like, a twinge of a conscience at Be two points in the movie where he finds out that he has led Norma to try to commit, suicide and feel, so guilty that he goes back to her. And then at the end of the movie where he basically pushes Betty his love interest away so that she can go marry a guy that's a better guy than he is. And those are, those are the two Noble things he does in the whole movie.

22:25 But even then, those are all tied up in other decisions. He's making that kind of undermine those things. So I don't know, man. I just he seemed like a guy that was always destined to get shot in the back and that's exactly what happens here, you know. Yeah. Well, you were saying earlier like, who are we supposed to attach to the only person you can attach to is Betty? Schaefer has character Nancy Olsen? Yes. Yeah. Like, she's the only likable part of the movie. I guess her fiance already is, he's a nice kid. Yeah, you know, all of the struggling artists in this movie seemed like good folks. But that's had us about it. All right man let's talk about almost had Norma Desmond.

23:07 Let's talk about Gloria Swanson as Norma Desmond because this is a role that is considered at the same time. One of the best screen performances ever and the inspiration in many ways for like the term camp, like it is an over-the-top. Like there's a reason that that drag queens model themselves after Gloria. That in this movie, do you know what I'm saying? Like it is, it is a both and kind of performance and you can like, see the origins of The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yes, springing from her performance. The thing is, though, I don't think that. First of all, I don't think she's a bad actress at all because we're a matters, like she Nails it and the affectations that she does, I kind of wondered throughout parts of the movie like oh is this just what she thinks?

23:56 She's supposed to be doing, but then there are moments in the movie where she kind of like drops the entire facade. Like there's a moment where she's been impersonating. Charlie, Chaplin to try to entertain William Holden and she jumps on the couch with him and they're just as incredible. By the way, was a good Chaplet. It looks an issue like hurt her. Charlie Chaplin impression was awesome top-tier man. But yeah, she's just like laying next to the William Holden on the couch, and there's none of the Norma Desmond pretentiousness, and I'm like, oh, okay. So she really is just portraying a woman who is trying to put on airs and I Yeah, to that extent and the extent that she sticks. The Landing at the end of the movie. It's a pretty darn great performance.

24:38 Yeah. She is easily the best part of this movie, like her ability to portray a woman trying to cling to the vestiges of her stardom is incredible. I like it is so over-the-top in a way that is believable. And like that, that might sound counterintuitive, but I can only imagine that somebody who's a superstar of the first Superstars. Like, this is an early time in the era of mass communication and it's the first time there's ever been moving pictures and she is one of the very first true Superstars. So, like there's nobody who's set the template for her, you know, we talk all the Time in the World of Sports about How Michael Jordan set the template for how to deal with mass Fame, in the era of the internet.

25:39 And you know the 90s and early 2000s that people like Tiger Woods, followed and and LeBron and others. There is nobody to set the template for the fictitious, Norma Desmond. And I think Gloria plays that incredibly well. Again, I just, I can't believe the way this worked out to be a real life thing because Gloria Swanson was a major major movie star in the silent film era and the rise of talkies was her undoing and she just kind of, you know, she had gone off to New York. She was in theater. So she wasn't like she became Norma Desmond. She was a working actress who kind of got coaxed back to Hollywood for this movie.

26:23 However, like I can't imagine reading this script that has been offered to you and reading what they say about this person in the movie and the person basically follows the same trajectory as your career and people call her washed up and people call her a has-been and people call her delusional. And at every point there undercutting this poor woman, who thinks that she's going to be adored again. And it's like, no, they just wanted your car and and I can't imagine reading the script and being like, yep, I don't see anything here that I would object to Like Wilder is asking these people in his movie to come back and relive the most traumatic moments of their life, and to play them in an even more dramatic fashion. And it's like, I don't know.

27:08 Like, do you think Brad that you could put distance between yourself Gloria Swanson and the character Norma Desmond? Put that distance there or is there are the lines to blurred? Like, I feel like I would be second-guessing at every Point. Like, why are you doing this to me, dude. Yeah. I think that it would just take an incredible amount of self-awareness and humility to say. Yeah. Like, I was a silent era movie star. And I've moved on from that era and sure I'll come back to play it this one time, but that's not who I am anymore. And that gives me the space to be able to play it more accurately. Maybe, I don't know.

27:48 I don't think I could do it. If you ask me to come back and be the person I was in my 20s. And my 40s or 50s, right? Like like nah, bro, that's not going to happen. Like, we've got this perfect character. His name is Brad fee. We want you to play them and it's like everything you did bad in college the screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait a minute. We trying to do here, man. Written by Robert, fuck. All right, I think this is a perfect segue into talking about Erich, von stroheim in this movie as Max, the Learn who you find out is not only Norma's, first husband, but is also a famous, you know, a formerly famous silent, film director and this is where things get and I hate using this word but that's where they really get meta. People like to talk about movies that are very meta. This is like, this movie is more metal than maybe any movie I've ever because there's so much real life stuff dragged into this movie.

28:50 Erich, von stroheim is one of the master filmmakers of Cinema, he wasn't, he's a real director. He made a movie in the 1920s called greed which is considered one of the landmark movies in history. It was four hours long. It was considered at the time it was made the best movie ever made and the studio watching it next week, right? The studio took it from him, they chopped it down to like 90 minutes. And then all the footage that they cut out was lost basically and over the years bits and pieces have been recovered. But you know we've gotten to the point now Brad where I think they've said that somewhere between 80 and 90% of all movies made during the silent era have been lost forever. And and greed is one of those movies that we have pieced together, I think they have like a two and a half hour, cut of the movie now, but the rest of its lost and that's Von stroheim's Legacy is that the Studio's them over? And like now you have him playing a washed-up director in a movie with Gloria Swanson and not only that. That.

29:56 But in real life, Erich von stroheim directed Gloria Swanson in a silent movie at the peak of her powers. When she hired him on to direct a movie, it was never finished because they had creative differences and she stormed off the set and the movie that you see playing on the projection screen in that famous scene, where she does. The I am big, it's the pictures that got small, is the movie that Erich von stroheim directed her in. Hmm, like I just Like, it feels like this was he put all of his actors into these, weird, psychological, torture, e moments, and ask them to relive them through these characters.

30:40 But not read too much into it at the same time. I just don't know how these people didn't murder Billy Wilder. Instead of Joe Gillis on the said, yeah, I was going to say if you've been listening, if you stayed with us thus far, if there's anything that I can tell you about Sunset Boulevard, Oh avard super fun movie 10/10 would definitely recommend light-hearted you know take have a watch it with the first date. It's going to be a blast. I will say this before we go to break, I know that I am a long-winded person, you filming whiskey Nation, you know, this about me. I don't think I've ever talked this much in the first half of an episode and Brad is talked so little, so Brad, I really do want to hear like whether it's about the performances, Whether it's just, you kind of getting your mind around all the things that we've laid out on the table thus far before we go to break, I just want you to give us like two minutes of whatever you feel, you need to say to get off your chest before we drink some whiskey.

31:41 I feel like the worst part about this film is the Noir murders opening and ending, like I know that that gives us the famous scene of her, losing her mind and coming down the thing. But for some reason, it felt shoehorned into the movie to me and like, you know, the classic narration of my death type of thing which, you know, I've not seen much new are, but I'm guessing that's a Staple of the genre that just didn't fit with the rest of it. And then the the opening sequence of him, you know, lying to the creditors and then getting in a car chase with them.

32:22 Like it was the most obvious setup in the history of setups that like I was sitting there going like really like this is Billy Wilder like this feels like a very bi-level script so far. And so stuff like that, kind of took me out of the film a little bit. But if I'm being honest, I feel like I've heard so much about this film and yet, so little that I walked into this film of, almost as blind as you could on a movie. So famous and I walked away pretty disappointed, Bob, I did not. It didn't click for me.

33:03 And the thing is, I like older films. I like the, the pacing and the dialogue, and this one just didn't do it for me, and I'm hoping to maybe on Unpack more of why in the in the second half and not even unpack. Like, I know why I don't like it. I want you to help me understand why I don't like this movie, but there's something about it and I think maybe you you hit on it earlier Bob, this movie feels mean-spirited. Yeah. Yep. And I maybe maybe that's it. Maybe I'm just answered my own question but man, it felt mean-spirited and I I can get down with dark films with Add endings, but I don't know if I can get down with just meanness. Hmm.

33:49 Yeah, that's my big struggle with this movie, too. And again, I feel like you have to give a disclaimer in 2023 because if you make any sort of definitive statement, people want to jump on it and argue with it. Like I know that unreliable narrators are thing. Not this movie has one, but I know that you don't have to have a likable protagonist. I know that just because the protagonist narrates something. Doesn't mean the writer is endorsing it, right? Like we know all of these things. I understand that Joe Gillis is a piece of shit and that his judgments on the world are not necessarily true. Even if they are in some ways accurate observations like the condition of Norma's home and things like that. That doesn't compel me to keep watching the movie. Do you know what I mean?

34:37 Like, I can watch a movie with unlikable characters, but there has to be something for me to latch onto that keeps me kind of propulsively driving forward. And, and Norma is a figure of pity, especially in the last 20 minutes of the movie. But she's also such a manipulative figure that you can't really keep watching the movie out of pity for her either. So, like there's, there's no one to latch onto. Except for like you said, this character of Betty Who is the dullest and most boring character in the movie. And again I think it's by Design. So it's kind of like, I respect what you're doing Billy Wilder but it just isn't as compulsively watchable for me as some of your better works.

35:22 Yeah, well I think, if we're going to give our listeners anything the latch onto about this episode, it's going to be some whiskey reviews. Yeah, dude. So let's let's let's get into this fourth of five been Each marks were reviewing to kick off this season. This one is called Benchmark bonded. What do you say? Let's go Bond. Bob. So, here's the deal everybody. We just absolutely love producing as much content as possible for film and whiskey Nation. But if our regular episodes aren't enough for you, then you can head on over to patreon.com film whiskey sign up for one of our memberships and you will get a slew of extra content for your listening. Pleasure, check us out on.

36:04 On.com film whiskey. Alright, everybody. As Bob said, this is Benchmark bonded. Now, if you are an astute listener, the filming was he podcast, you will have already guessed that Benchmark. Bonded is a 100 proof whiskey Bob. Now, why would they have known that? They would have known that Brad because of the bottled in bond act that came out in the 1890s which basically was the US government's way of regulating the spirits industry, so that they weren't selling poisonous Hooch to the American public.

36:44 So if you, if you've been listening to us for a long time, you probably know this if you're a big bourbon Drinker, you probably know this already, but to be considered bottled in bond. A whiskey has to be aged 44 years in a government Bonded Warehouse, it has to be bottled at 100 proof. It has to be the product of one Distillery season, so distilleries have two seasons of the year that they, that they distill in. You can't blend across Seasons. There's a couple more items that you have to fulfill to check the boxes for bottled and bond, but those are the big ones. So when you see something say it's bottled and bond, you automatically know it's 100 Proof. It's not 101. It's not a 99. It is 100 Proof, dude.

37:28 You just nailed it. Your that that was I'm like stunned silence over here. Wow. Wow, wow. The only reason that I said, 1890s is because I can't remember if it's 1894 1897 and didn't want to stick my foot in my mouth. So we're just going to say, 92, I don't freaking know. All right, man, let's drink some Benchmark. So again, if you've been listening to us this season, we are drinking five, new releases. That Buffalo Trace is bottling Under The Benchmark, label. We started with the cheapest one and the lowest proof, and we're working our way up to the highest proof one. So we really liked the first week, Benchmark, top floor. The second week we were very split on that was The Benchmark. Small, batch.

38:08 Last week we tried Benchmark, Single Barrel which Neither of us liked and so, we're hoping that we can really get back on track here with this hundred proof Benchmark bonded. Yeah, and as I jumped into the nose on this one, I found a decent amount of like, like right off the pop, some cinnamon and then it led into like a really nice caramel apple. There was some Oak and the longer I sat with it the more I got like a mixed berries feel and I really liked it, it was a solid approachable. Knows that I give a 7 out of 10 to, I also gave it a 7. I had pretty much the exact same notes caramel jumped out to me with Buffalo Trace.

38:50 Oak is always going to be a note on the nose, on the taste on the finish. I find sometimes that Buffalo Trace products are like overly Okie especially on the finish. And, you know, spoiler alert that kind of happens here too. But those were the notes I got brown sugar and green apple. There was a lot of apple peel on this. I will say Brad, that one of the concerning things with Benchmark. These five benchmarks were doing is that as they go up in proof, the alcohol is not only just present on the palate, but it's like, really, really noticeable on the nose, too. Like this had a very ethanol forward nose to me, and that's kind of what kept it from getting a higher score. So I also gave it a 7 out of 10 on the nose. Yeah.

39:34 But for me, when we moved into the palette, I really enjoyed it. There was like almost like a Juicy Fruit. Gum flavor at the tip of my tongue and there was some nice sweet Savory almost caramel. And then I got some of those baking spices. Again, I got a little bit of nutmeg, some cinnamon. I give it an 8 out of 10 on the pallet Bob, this is like a really solid b-minus type of palette. I didn't get almost any of that man. I found that the exact same notes that were on the knows where they're on the palate, except that it was Eva no cure than it was on the nose. And again, like Not expecting much from this. This is a 20-something dollar bottle of whiskey. I think so like you know, it is what it is man, but I didn't find it to open up.

40:19 I didn't find it to get any more complex. And so, I'm once again, just going to give it a 7 out of 10 on the taste ma'am. Yeah, I for me, the Finish moved into some rye area, like I'm sure that there's not much Ryan this but I got a little bit of rice spice. It was very Oaky, there's a little bit of leather, I'd put it in between the two. So I'll give it a seven and a half. Yeah, for me, on the finish, I thought it actually turned a bit sour. Like it didn't taste like, sour apple, but it tasted like the grain kind of soured in my mouth a little bit. As I went to swallow, it wasn't like the most okey thing, but I think that, that the, the bitterness of the oak mixed, with the fact that a kind of soured, for me, it definitely came down a step on the finish. I'm going to give it a 6 out of 10. Yeah, and then with balance, I think that this has some decent complexity of flavor there.

41:13 There's some fruitiness some traditional caramel, brown sugar notes and then there's those baking spices that for me. Take it up a notch like this like this moves from being like, okay sure. It's a fine 20-dollar. Whiskey to like oh there's some like spiciness going on here that I wasn't expecting. So I give it a 7 and a half out of ten on the balance. Yeah, I'm just going to give it a six and a half and that's It's between the sevens that I gave the nose and taste and the six that I gave the finish, I think it's pretty good but it's nothing special. You know, like and and that's kind of what we're expecting from this whole line. I think Brad, if we could be frank here, neither of us are expecting to find a 10/10 whiskey here. What we might be expecting to find is a 10/10 value and like, yeah, that's a lot of our evaluation of a whiskey is like, hey man, like this is like a seven out of ten whiskey. But they're charging $18 for it.

42:09 I can't recommend this easier to you, you know? I mean, how do you pass that up? Exactly. So I'm not expecting a lot here, but even at that point, like I'm still just gonna give it a six and a half. Yeah. So that brings us to our final category value in the beautiful state of Ohio. You can purchase this whiskey for $20, on the dot 1999. The pricing structure of these makes no sense to me. Like I just Understand how their pricing these out because it's like the top floor was 15. The small batch was 18. This is 20 Single Barrel, was 25. And then there's a foolproof coming next week, which I think is still less than the Single Barrel.

42:51 Like I just I just don't get it. I think it's twenty two or three. I want to say listen at twenty dollars is a pretty good whiskey. You can't get a lot of bottled in bond Bourbons for less than 20 anyway. You know, old Granddad is right in there. I know a lot of people like old granddaddy. Dad, Evan Williams is right in this range to this is kind of in line with those ones and I think for 20 bucks you could do a lot worse when it comes to picking a whiskey. I'm going to give it an 8 out of 10 on value. Yeah. I'm in the exact same spot 8 out of 10. This is a really solid value in the world of budget whiskey. So, yeah, that is bringing me out for my total to a 38 out of 50, Bob. Oh, wow.

43:32 Okay, you're a little bit higher than me. I met a 34.5 out of 50. Takes us to a 72.5 out of 100 or thirty six point. Two five out of 50. Now generally we have found it to be true that once we hit that 35 out of 50 mark on average or like a 70 out of 100. That's where we start. Recommending, you know, it might not be like a wholehearted recommendation but it's, you know, it's a 7 out of 10 like it's a pretty solid thing that you can get. I think Brad, that if you want to try this one, I would recommend just going ahead and buying the whole bottle, like, it's really not. Worth getting a six dollar poor of this. When you can get the whole bottle for 20 bucks like all Buffalo Trace products. I think that this would be make a really good mixer because it has that okey backbone to it, but it is pretty good meat or could stand up on the Rocks as well. I still think that the top floor from week one was my favorite one in this lineup so far.

44:29 Yeah which is not something that I would have expected. I think for me the small batches my favorite but even that, you know, You don't necessarily expect the 90 proofer to be your favorite in a lineup, but here we are. Here, we are, man. I feel like in some weird way that we will understand. Once we wrap this episode up, this is a perfect pairing with Sunset Boulevard. Haha. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why I feel this way. It's like a whiskey. I can't quite get behind in a movie that I can't quite get behind, but hey, yeah. You know, why not? Yeah. Sure. Oh, speaking of a movie I can't quite get behind. How about we go? Back to Sunset Boulevard. Let's do it, man. All right, everybody, that was Benchmark bonded, a whiskey that we drink.

45:18 We sure did man. Drink the heck out of that whiskey. We got what it deserved just like Joe Gillis that that's right. You know what we're about to do though Bob hopefully not give me what I deserve here because we are getting into Canada's favorite segment, two, facts. And a falsehood is gonna try to stop you Bob All right, and what is wrong to fax in a faucet? That's right. Two facts. And a falsehood, this is the segment where Brad presents three items to me, as fact all about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete fabrication on Brad's part now Brad, I am hoping that I can get back on track today because I'm one and two on the season. And a lot of stories dealing with Sunset Boulevard have become Hollywood Legend in and of themselves. So I'm hoping that My little bit of knowledge about this movie will help me out on this one but that remains to be seen man. Hit me with your two facts in a falsehood. Alrighty fax number one Norma's bed. Originally belonged to French actress Gabby daily. Universal bought it from her.

46:32 Well, on her death in 1920 and it was used in several movies most notably in the Phantom of the Opera in 1925. Hmm. Fax number to the first name of the Joe, Gillis character was Bill in an early draft of the screenplay, then it was altered to Richard. And finally, just before filming began. It was changed to Joe. Okay, that's number three, according to Cameron Crowe who Shadow Billy Wilder in his Twilight years, a typical day in his office would consist of him answering numerous phone calls, from people requesting for him to remake this film and he would inform them that he didn't own the rights and promptly hang up. Okay, I'm good just for the sake of argument I'm going to say three is a truth because Cameron Crowe very famously wrote a book out of his Oceans with Billy Wilder and he got very inventive with the title.

47:27 I think it's called conversations with Billy Wilder, at on the wild front on the Wilder front, I checked that book out of the library for some Billy Wilder research and I didn't read that exact quote in it. When I was reading about Sunset Boulevard, but I did read a quote where he was giving an interview in his Twilight years where he was complaining about everything in Hollywood being a remake. And he was talking about like, you know, look at all those people over there. I'm gonna typewriters the Right now. They're writing, Jaws 3 and return of this. And so how do you think he would feel in 2023? Bob the state of 08 of cinnamon would have written the best Ant-Man movie that anyone could have been Billy Wilder's and man I'm going to say three is true. Number one, sounded true enough.

48:16 Number two is interesting because like, I mean, sure maybe he was named Bill that character was also really hard for them to cast. I know they offered it to Marlon. Brando. And then they offered it to Montgomery Clift before finally settling on, William Holden. So I have no idea. If they changed the character's name or not. I'm gonna say to is the falsehood, just cause it sounds like a brad G invention to me. Bob, you are 100% correct. Yeah, you're back to 500 baby. You don't shoot bill in the back. You shoot, Joe in the back. That's right. That's just science. So, you got me on a quick one. Originally, my falsehood was about the character of Max, and I had researched famous silent film directors, and Ernst lubitsch came up.

49:13 And I was going to say that he was supposed to be the Cecil B Demille part, but he didn't want to be in the movie. And so, they repurpose that character into the Layer 0 and that probably would have tricked me really. Yes, because Billy Wilder famously like worshipped Ernst lubitsch. He like the point where he had I just read this the other day. He had a plaque in his office. That basically said, like it when he was in a spot. He would look at this plaque and it would say like what would lubitsch do? Yeah. And hanging. There you go. Ernst lubitsch. Not just a silent director will probably do at least one of his movies on the Pod someday. Yeah yeah, yeah because earlier you talked about Erich von stroheim and I was like, wow she well he knows too much about that character. I got a strike that you totally would have got me on that one man.

50:03 Man II over thought myself alright, I am back to 500 and we are back into talking about Sunset Boulevard. Brad I don't have too much more to say about this movie. I feel like we kind of gave away our feelings about it in the first half we do we did not bury the lead on that one. Very well. All right, so is he Is the question. How are you good? Was there anything outside of the Hollywood Schmutz coming out of this film? Or the acting performances? Like this is supposedly his Masterpiece, right? That's what people say. What would point you to say that outside of him, spilling the beans on all the Hollywood stuff? Like was the cinematography, great was the lighting. Awesome was there.

50:52 Sound design. That really wowed you like, other than the acting and the script like, was there anything about this film? That made you go? Wow, I really took notice of that. That's that's Billy Wilder and its finest. I think some of the dialogue is really great and it has, you know, at least two of the most famous lines ever written for movies in. I referenced in one, the, I am big. It's the pictures that got small great line. And then the very famous like it's been done in every Looney Tunes episode at the very end of the movie, which is, you know. All right, mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up which gets kind of like twisted up into, I'm ready. For my close-up, mr. DeMille. Which is not actually what she says, but it's like it falls into that Casablanca thing of Play It Again, Sam, which is not what they really said.

51:37 So, you know, you can't knock a script that has two lines like that in it. I do think that this is one of those scripts from Wilder, where it feels like, He's throwing like 85 possible really good lines at the wall and seeing what sticks and some of them stick really well. And some of them are like, all right, you sound too clever there and I don't have that feeling with him as much in some of the movies that work a little stronger for me. So I think the script is good but again Brad I think part of the reason why it's hard for us to wrap our arms around this movie aside, from all the reasons we've said already is like Think about a movie like the apartment or like Double Indemnity where they're dealing with upper-middle-class to lower middle class people in a very specific point in time and like, take the apartment, for example, the inside of that office building is very mid-century modern, there's like no wasted space. You understand exactly what it's supposed to look like and how everyone crowds into that.

52:38 Office, CC Baxter's wardrobe. Is, you know, single man in his early 30s and Shirley maclaine's War. Rob is I work in an elevator, right? Like, there's not a lot to think about and nothing seems out of place. In the time. Whereas, in Sunset Boulevard, I read a lot about like the Wardrobe design and and the set design in this movie and I still don't know if I understand it all because some of it was designed to look purposely gaudy and some of it was designed to look purposely outdated and to mimic some of like the really over the top trends in like the 1920s in He would when people built those big houses and some of it was supposed to look very modern and Chic. And because it's 70 years later and I have no idea what was popular in women's, like very wealthy, women's haute couture in 1950.

53:32 Like I don't know. If I was sitting in the audience in 1950, I feel like I would have been like, oh yeah, that looks outdated. Oh yeah, that's really what a amazing outfit. She's wearing now and 70-something years on from that I'm like, okay, this all looks outdated to me. So I don't know what's a comment on what? And I feel like probably smarter Minds than myself. Have watched this movie and know, all those references, even the ones that I don't and I get it, I get why people love this movie, but it just seems like the kind of movie that you have no more and more and more about Hollywood history and about the Contemporary time of 1952, appreciate it to its fullest I'm going to I'm going to poke fun at you for a second. Bob, that was the most Bob answer to a question I've ever heard because I literally asked outside of the Hollywood stuff and the dialogue.

54:29 What stood out to you and you talked about the dialogue and then the Hollywood. I'm sorry. Man. It did it did it did like that answered my question. That like, that answered everything I need to know about this movie. Listen, the shot of him in the swimming pool dead. Is the coolest shot ever. Like weather, and it's wet. It's like, from underneath him looking up and out of the water because they couldn't do that with movie cameras in the 50s. Like, yeah, they tried to design a box that the camera could go in and it didn't turn out very well. And so they actually ended up rigging a mirror in the bottom of the pool that they filmed from outside the pool.

55:11 And it just like, they just happened to float him in the perfect way. It's just such a cool shot, I don't know. Yeah, that that is pretty cool. See, even that I would have not known that. I just thought it looked like a Cheesy rough special effect of the 1950s. And that one shot is why it's considered the 15th best movie of all time. That's what did it. That's the one that it's basically basically Lawrence of Arabia. All right, man, I think we are ready to segue into our final segment of the day and it is one that we call. Let's make it a double well nearly The end of the episodes of thanks for listening to the film and whiskey show.

55:52 Let's pair another film with this one. Even if it's struggle, it's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's make it a double the part of the podcast, where Brad makes something up at the very last second. Oh, you mean, every part of the podcast? Same was Bill. Hey man, I was trying. All right, all right, all right. So Brad, what is? Let's make it a double. Let's make it a It's the part of the show where we consider ourselves to be the finest of employers on the planets. The people who run Drive-In Cinema. Hmm, what movie would weep are on a Friday night movie.

56:35 Showing, what would we pair with Sunset Boulevard? And Bob, I think, for me, I mentioned it already. There's only really one choice, and I think it's, I think it's All About Eve. Like, I don't know what else to pair this movie with. I mean, I guess you could do something from the modern era that like, you know, comments on Hollywood, you know, we've talked about how the, the academy loves to give Academy Awards, two movies that talk about the making of movies. So you know, I'm sure there's some other ones out there that would fit it. But as far as the dark tone and disappointment in my soul as I watched them, I think that all body fits perfectly.

57:21 All right, I have two things to add so the idea that Hollywood loves to give Oscars two movies that are about making movies is true now, but it wasn't true until like 10 years ago and like Sunset Boulevard versus All About Eve is the famous example of this IMovie can win a ton of oscars, but if it was about making movies, it never won best picture. And this was something that I remember seeing tracked in an article when The Aviator came out in 04, and how it was like neck and neck with million-dollar baby for best picture, but that history was not on its side and then lo and behold, it doesn't win the Oscar Million Dollar Baby wins the Oscar. And it's not until the artist wins best picture, and then Argo wins.

58:05 Best picture the year after that, and there's were both about making Movies that that street got broken. But if you really wanted a pair this with something else, I guess you could do like a Singing in the Rain to see it done in a more lighthearted way you could pair it with something like Babylon, which I just mentioned. But All About Eve really is like the example to pair this with and especially since they come out in the same year. I've always preferred All About Eve. I think it walks that line of like it's cynical, but it's kind of like, I don't like to use the b word to describe movies. Brad. And I also like, I feel like the word caddy is kind of just a stand-in for that but bore boorish, you know, what the word meant. Yeah, right. But you know what I mean?

58:45 When it's a movie about like, backstage cattiness and backstabbing, and it's done in this, kind of, like, almost fun way. We're like everyone's backstabbing each other. It's a serious movie, but it's like, oh, you just get to watch women be vicious to each other and it's it's a lot more fun of a watch. Then I think Sunset Boulevard is I guess my question to you is having not really loved either movie, which do you prefer. No, you know, it has been a really long time. Since we watched All About Eve. I think that was like maybe season 3. I don't know if I remember it well enough to compare it. I don't know man.

59:28 Sunset Boulevard didn't sit well with me. Like, I felt really unsettled at the end of it and I don't think I'll say this, I think that Sunset Boulevard is the better made better scripted film, so interesting, but I think I would rather go back and watch All About Eve. Yeah, that didn't make me feel as icky Lou. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. As Sunset Boulevard did. All right, it's time for final, Gore's Brad. I have been really teetering on this movie because I recognize that if I give it anything lower than like an eight and a half then like the classic film Gods shall strike me down. But I think if I'm being frank and I'm being honest, like I'll give it an eight but I don't think I like it any more than that.

1:00:15 So I'm gonna give this movie an 8 out of 10. Yeah. I think I'm going to give it a 6 and a half Bob. Wow, okay I like I recognize that it is great. I think that glorious. Johnson's performance is really really transcended. Like I think she does a great, great job. There's just something about it. I've said it multiple times, didn't sit well with me. I walked away from the film just feeling gross. Now, like the fact that that is the intention does that like, do you respect it more for that? Or is it still just like, nah? No. Okay. Nah, there's certain movies that accomplish what they were going for and I still feel worse off as a human being for having watched it.

1:01:06 I would put this movie in that category. I would put nocturnal animals. Is that what it's called? Yeah, I almost am angry that I said it. Because that might mean somebody to watch it. Don't watch that movie. I like that. Oh, I hated that. I know. I know you've talked about it before, all right. So weird. So yeah, yeah, we're coming out to a seven point two five out of 10 on Sunset Boulevard, which I think is currently ranked as the 16th best movie ever made by the American Film Institute. So, we would like to know what you think film in whiskey Nation, if you've seen this classic movie, I want you to let us know where you fall on it, do you fall closer to where we are on the Spectrum or closer to the American Film Institute? You can find us on all of our social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a freshly? Again on Tick-Tock at film whiskey. I don't know if you could say tick tock more like a boomer, the tick-tocking we're on Tick-Tock Bob. We're also on this fancy little platform called Discord. Discord is an awesome place where it's like a private social media where you only interact with the content and people that you want to interact with.

1:02:21 So come join our Discord. And we have a blast over there, you can find a link to it at the end of every single one of our show notes. Next week we'll be back with Billy Wilder's 1953 film a Stalag 17 but until then I'm Bob book I'm Brad G and we'll see you next time.