Green River Honey Review + David Huffman on the Cleveland Cinematheque

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Brad (0:30): On today's Film and Whiskey, we've got a pretty special bonus episode ahead of us. We're gonna be reviewing Green River Honey, and then we're gonna be talking with David Huffman, the new director of the Cleveland Cinematheque, one of the best repertory theaters in the country. That's all ahead on Film and Whiskey. Well, hey there, everybody. Welcome into the Film and Whiskey podcast.

Brad (1:08): I'm Bob Book.

Unknown Speaker (1:09): I'm Brad g.

Brad (1:11): Brad, it's good to see you again, man, in this interseason extended break that we're taking. And you know what, dude? Life just keeps happening, and we just keep extending this break. But I feel like we're on a pretty good cadence of, like, getting episodes out. Don't feel bad about this.

Unknown Speaker (1:27): Yeah, dude. Still getting some episodes out, some audio for our lovely listeners. And soon enough And some video. Some video. Soon enough, we are going to be diving into season eleven, which is gonna be insane, dude.

Unknown Speaker (1:40): I'm super excited.

Brad (1:42): Do you think is it time for us to to tell the folks what the format of season eleven is going to be, Brad?

Unknown Speaker (1:48): Oh, I don't know. That that's kind of a big deal, Bob. I

Brad (1:52): don't know that we can tease it any longer, Brad. What to the best of your knowledge, I'll let you do this. Why don't you tell the listeners what season eleven is actually about? This is actually a test of your what's recall is the word.

Unknown Speaker (2:07): So it's it's a little bit of a combo season. We're we're trying something new, but we have the AFI top 100 list.

Unknown Speaker (2:16): Mhmm. Through the history of the Film

David Huffman (2:18): and Whiskey podcast over the last ten years, we have gone through probably fifty, sixty of the movies.

Unknown Speaker (2:25): Oh, at least. Yeah. I mean, we might be

Brad (2:27): up to, like, almost 80 by now, dude. We're Yeah. Doing pretty good on that list.

David Huffman (2:30): Exactly. And I've even watched a few of them outside the podcast. And so I'm, like, getting close to a 100. I know you're already you've already seen the whole 100. But we are going to part a of the combo.

David Huffman (2:44): We're gonna go through some of these other top 100 AFI films and try to finish off as much of the list as possible. But the part two of the combo, this is where it gets really fun. We've been doing let's make it a double since what? Season four, five?

Unknown Speaker (3:00): Yeah. It's been a while,

Unknown Speaker (3:01): man.

Unknown Speaker (3:02): It's been a long time. We are going to let's make it a double the whole season. So we have picked out what what would it be? 12 movies to 10 movies?

Unknown Speaker (3:13): 10 movies.

David Huffman (3:14): Yeah. Okay. So we've picked 10 movies. And at the end of the film, whatever movie Bob and I pick for Let's Make It a Double is going to be the next two movies that we watch for the season.

Brad (3:27): Yep. Basically creating like a three movie mini program. So, you know, let's just say for example, we're watching the Godfather, and then we get to the end of the Godfather and Brad's like, you know what? I wanna pair this movie up with whatever it might be. No.

Unknown Speaker (3:42): No. No.

David Huffman (3:43): Bob Bob would say, I wanna pair with Godfather two. And then Brad would say, Godfather three, baby.

Brad (3:50): And now what would happen is you would quote the Family Guy episode where Peter says, you know what movie I liked? The Money Pit. And then we would we would pair it up with the Money Pit. So what will happen is, you know, it has to be a movie obviously that we have not already reviewed for the podcast, but it could be anything. Like it doesn't have to be another gangster movie.

Brad (4:09): It could. Or it could just be like, you know, I really like Marlon Brando, and we've only done a few of his movies. Let's pick another Brando movie. Whatever Brad let's say it's Brad's week to pick first. Brad will pick his movie.

Brad (4:20): And then I think the really fun part is following Brad's pick. If I'm the second one to pick, I think we could decide either, hey, let's go back to what I picked for the Godfather, or I could pick, you know, you did the money pit. What movie do I wanna watch after the money pit? And we could just basically be playing, let's make it a double telephone through the whole season. I I think that there is both a lot of, like, built in classics we're gonna hit and the opportunity for like complete chaos this season.

Unknown Speaker (4:51): Oh.

Brad (4:51): I'm I'm just gonna be this excited for a season in a long time, dude.

David Huffman (4:55): I am going to pick secondhand lions 10 times. It's just every single time.

Unknown Speaker (5:01): I told you about the one season that I was like, how many movies can I pair ET with? Because I think it it could happen.

Unknown Speaker (5:07): That is a good question. It's it's probably quite a few.

Brad (5:11): Alright. I have nestled in my bottle of Green River Honey right here behind me if you're watching on video. So let's dive into talking about this because Brad, we do have an interview coming up that we're gonna throw to you after this review. But we've been sent a bottle of Green River's new honey finished bourbon. Now, I don't wanna dive too deep on the details and legality of what's going on here.

Brad (5:39): I don't think anything illegal is going on here.

Unknown Speaker (5:43): I just real curious because I.

Brad (5:46): No. It's not uncle Mirrors. I do think that there's like some interesting gray areas based into what we know about the definition of bourbon, is that, you know, among other things, bourbon, and especially if it's labeled as like Kentucky straight bourbon, has a ton of legal requirements that you have to meet. And one of them is that it cannot have additives in it. And the world of finished bourbons has exploded over the past few years.

Brad (6:14): And the distinction is always like, we aged this bourbon according to the rules of bourbon aging, right? New charred oak barrel, depending on what the designation is for X number of years. If it's bottled and bond, then it's in a government bonded warehouse, whatever it might be. And then we took that bourbon and took it into a different barrel and finished it in a barrel that had rose or a barrel that had what have you. And that's technically a finished bourbon.

Brad (6:42): And they're allowed to kind of get away with that because they followed the rules of the bourbon aging process when it was in its original container. Now what Green River has done with this new honey bourbon, and I wanna make sure that I use their words correctly. They say we start with real four year Kentucky straight bourbon and then add real locally sourced honey directly into the barrel. Then we let time do what it does best. And that's it.

Unknown Speaker (7:11): Mean, that feels question, like man.

Unknown Speaker (7:13): It's like

David Huffman (7:13): That feels like it fits the finished because as long as it's bourbon first and then you add something to it, I think you're chill at that point.

Brad (7:25): Now that's the question though. It's like because it doesn't sound like they're actually putting it into another barrel to finish it. It's not a a barrel finishing process. It's a we're dumping something else into the barrel that was already aging this bourbon. So it kinda just sounds like to meet the legal requirements, all you have to do is at some point say, this bourbon is done aging according to the legal process, and now we're gonna put things in the barrel and that's gonna be considered a finish and not an additive.

Brad (7:54): And I find that really interesting. Do you know what I mean?

Unknown Speaker (7:58): What would be another what would be a sentiment synonym for interesting in your in your in your little brain

Brad (8:05): there, bro? Audio dropping listeners like flies. I don't know, dude. Like, again, at the end of the day, all we ever care about on this show is like, does it taste good? But it is interesting to see like the clever marketing of some of our favorite brands and how they kind of, you know, tiptoe along the edges of what is allowed and not allowed in this world of spirits.

David Huffman (8:26): What I know is I have drank other flavored, finished, honey type whiskey. Mhmm. Often, it's not very good, Bob. No. That is something I know for a fact.

Brad (8:40): I actually just had I like I don't know. I found it in my room of whiskey down here, Brad. It was like an old Irish whiskey that was a honey flavored Irish whiskey. And it was very sweet, and you could tell that it was like full of sugar. Yeah.

Brad (8:53): Usually when you have something honey finished, it's a liqueur or it's just like really, really heavily sweetened. I mean, one, will, you know, to its credit, it clocks in at, I believe, 92 proof. So this does still meet, especially at the proof point for bourbon. This is not dropping down into the liqueur category. And I'm excited to try it because we love Green River.

Brad (9:14): We've always appreciated their stuff. And Brad, with all that said, I think it's time for us to get into this Green River Honey. Now we are both sipping this for at least the second time here, but we decided to do it live on air with each other. And Brad, I'll turn it over to you. What are you getting on the nose of this Green River Honey?

Unknown Speaker (9:31): Bob, wouldn't you know it? I can smell honey on this whiskey. It's right there on I'm the I don't know about you, but I'm a professional judge of whiskey, and I I could smell that honey on there. It's got a really nice honey nose. For me, it it smells like actual honey Mhmm.

David Huffman (9:56): Versus honey sweetener. And that's honestly I I'm being I've been a little facetious. That's honestly a very big difference. It has a really nice clover honey vibe going on. And I would say that there's like a nice palette of vanilla underneath that is really pleasant.

David Huffman (10:15): If we are judging this as a non flavored, like this is we're not judging this as a liqueur, like we're judging this I'll as a give it a six out of 10.

Brad (10:26): Oh, I see. I think it's more pleasant than a six, But I am with you that it's not super complex. You know, the other note that I would be getting on this, and I've mentioned it before, when you go out like in the country in the middle of summer, and there is just this overwhelmingly kind of like powdery sweet smell from some weed that grows somewhere. And I don't think it's honeysuckle, but no one's ever been able to identify like what is the plant that makes the country smell real sweet like that in the summertime. It's the same note that I always get when we try Amburana finished stuff.

Brad (10:58): That's here a little bit. And I will chalk that up to the honey finish. It's really nice. The bourbon itself is just not that complex. So I'm gonna give this a seven out of 10 on the nose and we can dive into the taste here.

David Huffman (11:11): Yeah. And I think when you get into the taste for this, the the honey is there. It infuses everything that you are going to get here. I think that you get some almonds, you get a little bit of that nice bourbony caramel, there's vanilla. It's a really pleasant palate that I actually was really impressed with, Bob.

Unknown Speaker (11:28): I enjoyed it a lot. I will give it a 7.5 out of 10.

Brad (11:33): Yeah. I'm in the same spot except that, like, I don't have a lot of notes to support that score. You what I mean? Yeah. Like, it's just a very honey forward bourbon.

Brad (11:42): And I think that, like, you know, we've always been bigger fans of Green River stuff at full proof than we have at the at the sort of entry proof that they have. Not entry proof, but the entry level bourbon that they have here. And it's a very standard kind of four year bourbon that you're getting with quite a bit of honey on top of it. I will also say, Brad, that honey syrups in cocktails are not always my favorite because I think that they do kinda get lost really easily. Like, it's just barely distinguishable from like a a Demerara sugar syrup.

Brad (12:17): It's a little bit different, but like if you're dumping like really hot brown liquor on top of that, like you're just not gonna notice it so much.

Unknown Speaker (12:24): So it's subtle, I like it. If you had put it in front of

Brad (12:29): me without all of the branding and marketing around it to tell me that there it was honey finished, I don't know if I would immediately know that, which is a good thing, I think. Like it doesn't taste like a liqueur. It just tastes like a very honey forward bourbon. So I'm at

Unknown Speaker (12:44): a 7.5 and that's all

Brad (12:46): to say like not super complex, right? The finish, once again, like, really pleasant. I I don't know if it's just my taste buds or, like, whiskey has changed in the last couple years, but I've noticed that more and more the sort of sour and bitter notes linger on the back of my palate when I've been tasting whiskey lately. And once again, like they added honey to this, so I'm glad that it's not doing that. But it is really refreshing to have a whiskey that finishes sweet and then the lingering notes afterwards are still pleasant and sweet.

Brad (13:20): Once again, not complex. I get a little bit of like a mineral water kind of thing here that it's not quite salt, but you know what I'm talking about. There's a little bit of like a almost like an irony kind of thing going on that to compliment that sweetness. I like it quite a bit. I'm gonna give it a seven out of 10.

Unknown Speaker (13:36): Yeah. I'm also at a seven out of 10. For me, it gets a little bit mint grassy kind of vibe going on at the back end, but you are right. That that honey sweetness sticks around quite a bit. It's a seven out of 10.

David Huffman (13:50): I think balance, I'll also give it a seven out of 10. It is what it is. There's nothing complex about it. It's got a really nice honey forward experience with some vanilla and a little bit of nuttiness, a little bit of grass. It's it's a really pleasant, nice whiskey.

Brad (14:08): I would love to see what a full proof version of this tasted like. I think ultimately this is, I don't wanna say destined for cocktails because it's better than I don't wanna say that it can't stand on its own. But even if you go to the Green River website, like right below the description of it, they've got like six or seven recipes for making cocktails with it. One of which is the classic Gold Rush cocktail, which we've talked about here before. Personally, I like the variant of the Gold Rush called the Brown Derby, which uses grapefruit juice and honey syrup.

Brad (14:42): I think that this would make a phenomenal Gold Rush. I might go try it tonight because you get the honey syrup in addition to the honey finish here. And I think that might stand up a little bit better to that ruby red grapefruit juice. Yeah, all that to say, Brad, well balanced. Now where it really has to kind of earn its keep is in terms of value because you can get cheap flavored whiskey for probably half the price as this.

Brad (15:08): It's not four year bourbon. Right? And it's not it doesn't go through the process that this purports to go to. So Brad, I would say, and I don't know the price on this, I'll ask you in a second. But if this is around $30 I'm gonna say it's a pretty good value.

Brad (15:22): So I'd love to hear where are you actually finding the price point on this?

David Huffman (15:26): Well, when I was looking at this MSRP, it was $25. Okay. I am pulling it up on OHLQ right now, and it is $24.99.

Unknown Speaker (15:40): Great value.

David Huffman (15:40): I I like I think at $25, this is an 8 and a half, dude. Yeah. Like, this is a really good value. I heck. I'll give it a nine out of 10.

David Huffman (15:51): I'd like for if this costs $35, I'd be at, like, a five or a six out of 10. For $25, this is better than any other honey whiskey out on the market. This is an easy recommend for me.

Brad (16:07): I think you've talked me up to an 8.5 here as well, and that's gonna take my final score to a 37 out of 50. Brad, where are coming out to on this one?

Unknown Speaker (16:16): I am at a 36.5 out of

Brad (16:20): we are very close on this one. 73 and a half out of 100 or a 36.75 out of 50 on average, which puts it comfortably above that 35 mark where we start recommending. Folks, look, I'm not gonna say this is a contender for whiskey of the year. I do think it's a really interesting product expansion for Green River. And, you know, if they're gonna start making flavored stuff, I'd prefer that it's in this sort of finished wheelhouse instead of like we're adding syrup to this.

Brad (16:50): Right? Yeah. So, you know, I I think it's great for $25. You could do a hell of a lot worse. I'm glad I drank this, Brad, to be honest with you.

David Huffman (16:58): Yeah. And honestly, I would say that this would actually be like a good, hey. You've never had bourbon before, but you like honey. Like, I don't know. Try this.

David Huffman (17:08): It it might be an easy way because there is enough bourbon characteristics about this and it doesn't have any syrupy sweetness, this could be an in a good intro whiskey for certain whiskey newbies.

Brad (17:24): Absolutely. I didn't even think about that. But, yeah, at 92 proof, it'll stand up in a cocktail. It's fun to drink neat. Thank you to Green River.

Brad (17:32): And, yeah, I'll give it a thumbs up, Brad.

Unknown Speaker (17:34): Yeah. Two two thumbs up from me, man. Really enjoyed

Brad (17:36): it. Thumbs up. There we go. Alright. So I sat down and talked with a new friend of the show, David Huffman, who has just been named a director up at the Cleveland Cinematheque.

Brad (17:46): Now the Cinematheque is what we call a repertory theater. Rep theaters are all over the country, usually in big cities, and they'll show like experimental films. They'll show classic movies. A lot of times they'll try to source movies from owners that have a copy of it on like 35 millimeters so that they can show a movie on film. They're usually attached to nonprofits or to museums.

Brad (18:08): And the Cleveland Cinematheque is one of the longest running in the country and one of the most respected now. They just filled this vacancy. David is a really cool guy. I had never met him before, but I think it's really important that we talk about what rep theater is, why it's important in the cinema landscape, and why it's important to have places that are showing like Citizen Kane every now and then. That isn't just like a fathom event shown on some shitty, you know, Regal Cinemas theater around the country.

Brad (18:36): So like, it's nice to have these things as an option. And David does a really great job breaking that down. So let's go over to my interview with David Hoffman.

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Brad (19:35): Alright. I am joined by David Hoffman, who is the new director of the Cleveland Cinematheque. And I've known him for almost ten minutes now, and he's already given me permission to call him Dave. So Dave We're very meet you and introduce you to Phil Mid Whiskey. How are you today?

Speaker 5 (19:49): I'm alright. I'm gonna insist on calling you Robert, though.

Brad (19:52): Please do. I actually, it gives me a huge power trip, so I love it.

Speaker 5 (19:57): Makes you feel fancy, doesn't it? Absolutely.

Brad (20:00): So the Cleveland Cinematheque is one of my favorite institutions here in Northeast Ohio, and we won't I I promise I'm gonna try not to get too nerdy about different places I like to frequent in Northeast Ohio. But I think it's an important place to talk about for our audience because we really haven't talked about repertory theater before. And before we get into talking about the cinema tech itself, I wanna talk a little bit about you because you have now been named the director of one of the most prestigious institutions in repertory theater in the country, which is, I mean, you know, not to tee you up with what a huge honor that must be, but it really is.

Speaker 5 (20:35): It is. I feel very privileged to take over the stewardship of this incredible organization that I've loved as long as I've lived in Cleveland. But, of course, when I first moved to Cleveland, because of my work schedule, I frequently couldn't ever go to see anything at the Cinematheque. So it was just like getting the schedule was just a mean tease because it'd be like, oh, I'd love to go to that, but I have to work. So but now I get to go to work and see the movies if I want to there.

Unknown Speaker (21:00): So it kind of works out perfectly. I'll make up for lost time. That's kind of the dream.

Brad (21:05): And now you get to force everybody to watch what you want to show them too. So it's it's like having a captive audience in the truest sense of the term.

Speaker 5 (21:12): Yeah. Well, know, film programming is something that I've done for many, many years. Pretty much I joke like really since college, you know, and I'm I'm I'm not the youngest guy on earth. So it's been quite a few decades that I've been doing it. And, you know, I ran the campus film program at Bowling Green for a few years and programmed the the the weekend films and the classic films there.

Speaker 5 (21:31): Then, you know, I was a movie theater manager for a few years. And then I started working for Cleveland Cinemas here and kind of created my own job there. I was technically the director of marketing for Cleveland Cinemas, but I was really marketing and programming. So all the special series that people would identify with the Cedar Lee and the Capitol Theater at the time were really it was me back there, like planning all that stuff. And so it's just something that I've always done.

Speaker 5 (21:57): And even during the pandemic when the movie theaters were shut down, I was I bought a blow up movie screen for my backyard and programmed a whole summer of movies so my friends had movies to go see, you know? So even when I'm not getting paid,

Brad (22:08): I'm still programming movies. I love that. Yeah. And and quick shout out to Cleveland Cinemas, you know, Independent theater chains got really it it was difficult for them during COVID. Yeah.

Brad (22:20): Let's just put it like that. It's nice to see Cleveland Cinemas is still doing well. Cedar Lee is, I think, probably nationally known, especially among, like, film lovers as like, it's the only real destination in this area for independent cinema. And it's really been punching above it for a long

Speaker 5 (22:38): long time. There's also the Cleveland Cinematheque. So, you know.

Unknown Speaker (22:42): That's that's true. That's true. See, this is why I bring you on. Thank you for the immediate clarification. Uh-huh.

Brad (22:49): But let's talk a little bit about your background with Cleveland Cinemas because I think for our audience, as we start to talk about what a repertory theater is, how is it different programming movies for a repertory theater than it is for like a theater chain the way you would with Cleveland cinemas?

Speaker 5 (23:05): Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting because the cinema tech does show a lot of repertory probably. I don't know what the percentage of the programming would be. And, course, I'll be the one dictating that, I guess, so it'll be up to me. There is a lot that's repertory, and that means that films that are classic Hollywood films or it could even mean a movie that maybe came out a year or two ago that fits in with series or something that they bring back.

Speaker 5 (23:26): But they also do show, like, new movies as well. You know, the Cinematheque is the theater that first showed the secret agent, which, you know, was up for a bunch of Oscars this year. They opened that movie at the at the Cinematheque this year, not at the Cedar Lee. The Cedar Lee opened it after the Cinematheque. So sometimes the Cinematheque gets a jump on, you know, like a newer arthouse film as well.

Speaker 5 (23:47): But a big majority of the programming that is is that people think of when they think of the Cinematheque is repertory stuff. And that could be, international classics to Hollywood classics to everything. And honestly, even before I was hired as the director of Cinematheque, I was coordinating with my predecessor, Bill Gasue, in my current job as a self employed vegan baker to do a promotion for Pride Month. And we I picked an classic Alma Dover movie, love desire. That's gonna be playing at June 27 at the at the Cinematheque.

Speaker 5 (24:23): And, you know, so I was already kind of, you know, working with them on an idea. And so I've technically, I guess, already programmed one movie at the Cinematheque even before I worked there.

Brad (24:32): That's very cool. So for our audience, I wanna take a step back and talk about repertory theater just in general. You know, you know, we could just do the Merriam Webster definition of what is rep theater, but I I kinda wanna give a little bit of historical context as well. When did we start seeing, especially in America, rep theaters spring up? And then where are they typically located?

Brad (24:53): Because I think the fact that we have such a great one in the Midwest like this is telling.

Speaker 5 (24:58): Yeah. I mean, they're generally I mean, you you're not gonna find one usually in a small town because there's just not the economics to support it because, you know, movies do cost money to get from the studios and, you know, you have to be able to pay the bills. So they're generally all in larger or mid sized cities at the at the smallest. And, you know, as far as when they first started to come, it's hard to say because historically, film distribution used to be very, very different than how we think of it now. Studios used to constantly reissue their own movies.

Speaker 5 (25:30): You know, like, you know, I'm I'm staring right now. You can see classic movie posters behind me, but I'm staring at a movie poster for one of my favorite movies, the women, which is from 1939. But this is actually a rereleased poster from, like, 1943, I think. So, like, they would put their own movies out again before VCRs and and TV to, like, stream things. So in a way, all movie theaters used to play some repertory stuff because the studios would put out movies that were successful.

Speaker 5 (25:57): So you'd have more and more chances to see these on the big screen, you know, sound of music played for years, you know, whenever it was originally out, things like that. So as far as, like, repertory houses, you're probably looking at later probably, like, sixties, seventies, seventies for sure. You know, like New York, you really get some iconic kind of, like, repertory kind of things there. But it took a little while before those you know? And and there's even theaters that specialize in, like, silent films.

Speaker 5 (26:22): There's still, I think, the silent theater that's out in Los Angeles that only plays silent movies still. So, that's a very specific repertory. Like the new Beverly out in LA, there's a ton of repertory theaters obviously in LA because it's where you go for movies. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (26:41): Yeah. I mean, you know, I

Brad (26:42): was actually just reading an article this week about the release strategy of movies like Jaws and Star Wars in the seventies. We've talked about they kicked off the summer blockbuster. But I don't know if on this podcast we've ever really gotten into the nitty gritty of the distribution style where, you know, the studios purposely decided to saturate the market where this is playing on at the time, you know, maybe 1,500 screens nationwide. That had never really been done before. No.

Brad (27:08): Big tentpole movies kind of followed this roadshow format for that. And you'd get it for a couple weeks, but it wasn't like every theater in every town around you was all only showing Jaws. And I feel like that's kind of how reps got started because it's like, hey, we could just do a whole theater where all we show is old movies. And it's counter programming to what you see in every other theater around you.

Speaker 5 (27:30): And obviously people love people that love movies love to go to the movies and love to see the things on the big screen. And so it's film lovers like you and like me that keep repertory theaters going because, again, if if if you weren't selling tickets, no one would be you know, that they wouldn't survive. And the Cinematheque's been around now for we're in the fortieth year, and it's gone strong. And like you said earlier, it has an incredible reputation. John Ewing, who founded it and ran it for basically the first forty years, He, you know, ended up being knighted by the French government for his contribution to the arts.

Speaker 5 (28:07): You know what I mean? So he is he's my only friend that is a knight. I only have one. And I don't call him Sir John, but I I guess I technically should. And, you know, so the importance of film as art is something that the cinematheque strives to keep alive.

Speaker 5 (28:23): And when I was with Cleveland Cinemas, you know, obviously, I worked for the Cedar Lee, and I did the film marketing for a lot of, like, the specialty arthouse films that can't pay, like, the, you know, the smaller distributors that can't afford to hire a publicist in each market, I would take that over. So I would be arranging all the PR and, like, interviews and making sure reviews are running and that kind of stuff. But then the programming things that I would do for Cleveland cinemas were more kind of filling niches that I felt like we weren't doing, like the cult series, which we call the late shift. I've got the current series, the WTF Wednesdays that's going on, you know, that kind of stuff. So a lot of the stuff that people see as my programming is a lot of the cult and horror things.

Speaker 5 (29:05): But, you know, I love I love classy stuff too. I keep having to joke with people. You know? If they only think that I run twelve hours of terror, and I know I'm sitting here in front of a wall of classic William Castle horror movies, but I really do love all different kinds of movies.

Brad (29:19): Well, I'm gonna try to tee you up for an easy one here, but it's not really easy. Think there's it's multifaceted. But why do you feel like rep theaters matter in today's cinema landscape?

Speaker 5 (29:31): Well, I think all movie theaters matter in today's landscape because I think that people more and more people and even, like, the, you know, the Gen Z and Gen Alpha people are starting to realize that, like, a movie going experience is an authentic experience, and people are looking for more experiences as opposed to living their life on their phone. And, you know, when you have to give something your complete attention and you're in the dark with strangers and you're just having that communal experience, it can't be replicated anywhere other than in a movie theater. So the cinematheque playing, you know, classic films, it gives people an opportunity to see kind of essential building blocks of cinema, if you will, you know, and as well as fun things too. You know? Like, Bilgosu did a great job of bringing in a lot of kind of, like, you know, Euro culty kind of things, know, like vampiris lesbos and stuff like that, which is a blast to see with an audience.

Speaker 5 (30:22): There was, you know, probably like 200 people at that show there. And you just it's way more fun to watch Vampiris Lesbos in an auditorium with 200 people than it is sitting in your tea in your living room watching it with a friend. Yeah.

Brad (30:34): Yeah. We talk all the time about how people consider going to the movies and events now, which I guess is true. Right? But if we're breaking down the economics of the events I do in a year, it's still the cheapest way I can spend two hours with a date or with a family. You know, people complain about ticket prices at the multiplex all the time, but even if I'm dropping 50 or $60 for two hours of entertainment, And the thing with, you know, I don't have to tell you this, we're both movie lovers.

Brad (31:02): But there is something about being, you know, in that environment where you are exposed to a great work of art that will Absolutely. Make a lasting impression on you that goes way beyond the the two hours you spent outside of the house to make sure you saw it.

Speaker 5 (31:18): Exactly. And I think that that's something that I don't know why I enjoy, like, film programming and presenting movies to the public as much as I do. Like, it is kind of a weird thing to, like, I don't know, but I'm I'm kinda passionate about it. So I'm very excited about this job, obviously, because I treasure the fact that other people, other film programmers have really given me memories that I cherish. You know?

Speaker 5 (31:40): And there's too many of them to start listing quite frankly. But, you know, like, when you see something that is just so much fun with a crowd, like, that it it is like going to a concert or or something like that, you know, where you have that shared energy And or even if it's not a fun movie necessarily, maybe it's one that just, like, really knocked you down, but it's still something that you can't replicate anywhere else. So places like the Cinematheque are so important to keep that tradition alive, to keep, you know, the audiences engaged so that they understand that that there's different levels of, you know, cinema, if you will. You know? And and when I say different levels, I mean the experience of seeing it in the theater as opposed to watching it at home or God forbid watching it on an airplane.

Speaker 5 (32:29): I just came back from vacation and I had a very long flight on the way home and I watched a bunch of movies on the plane. And I try to either watch movies that I'm not that that I'd either seen before, like I rewatched Household Saints. I hadn't seen that in forever. And I was like, hey, I rewatch Household Saints. And, you know, but I try not to watch something for the first time.

Speaker 5 (32:47): It's certainly not something that I think needs to be like a big screen kind of cinematic experience.

Brad (32:53): Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Now I wanna focus in on just a little tidbit of what you just shared with us. And what I've always been curious about is at a place like the cinematheque, how do you intend to balance the obscure and kind of introducing this to an audience who may have never seen it in this area before with that sort of Film 101 repertory?

Brad (33:17): Because I think that there are sometimes films that we let fall through the cracks because we just kind of assume that they're in the canon now. I was talking with somebody about the Criterion Collection the other day, and I'm pretty sure Criterion Spine Number One is Grand Illusion.

Speaker 5 (33:33): And that's a movie that like That sounds right.

Brad (33:35): Yeah. Nobody even talks about that movie anymore because it's just kind of been so canonized that it's almost become irrelevant in a way. So I wonder how do you allow yourself to say, you know what, we haven't shown, I don't know, Citizen Kane the best years of our lives or whatever it might be in ten and be okay dedicating space to that as well?

Speaker 5 (33:56): It's funny that you say that because honestly, even before I was hired, as soon as I started the interview process, my film programmer brain just started to go. And I was like, I have a you know, the the notes app on my phone. I just kept, like, typing, like, ideas for, like, series and things. And then and I'd watch a movie, and then that movie would make me think of, oh, well, how would this work with other movies that maybe thematically work with this or whatever? You know?

Speaker 5 (34:19): And and then I would start to write these things down. And, you know, I've seen a lot of movies with Cinematheque, but I certainly don't have the you know, I forget how many thousands of movies have been played there over the years to know, like, how long ago it's been played. And, you know, like everyone's memory, you think, oh, yeah, we just showed that. And this would happen to me at that at for Cleveland Cinema sometime. They'd be like, yeah, I just showed network.

Speaker 5 (34:40): And then I'd look and I'm like, oh, actually, I showed network ten years ago. You know what I mean? Like, so it's hard to like remember. And so that kind of stuff like you do wanna look at that, you know, like, you know, sure you could show Citizen Kane every year if you wanted to and you probably get people to come, but at a certain point, you're like, oh, not Citizen Kane again, you know, but Citizen Kane every once in a while, yeah, people need to have that exposure because there might be a whole new group of people that are discovering Orson Welles, and there's a reason why that movie has the reputation that it does. And, you know, and, you know, Gene Dealman unseated it as the number one movie on the sound list, you know, and the Cinematheque played that, I think, when it took over that slot.

Speaker 5 (35:17): And then they played it a few years after that. So pretty frequently in the world of Gene Diehlman screenings, I would say, because it's not a movie that have you seen Gene Diehlman? Have you

Unknown Speaker (35:27): seen No. I never have. And I've been kind of waiting to see it in a theater experience too.

Unknown Speaker (35:31): So Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (35:32): And I highly Shame on

Brad (35:33): me for not catching it at the cinema segment.

Speaker 5 (35:35): Well, I really suggest you do wait until I bring me, I guess, will be the one that brings it around because it's three hours long. It is, as one of my favorite college film professors said, lyrically paced, meaning it's a slow burn. You know what I mean? It's basically hours of this woman just doing housework and her routine, but it builds and it's really great. And, you know, it's it's it's a really fascinating movie, but it's definitely not for everybody.

Speaker 5 (36:02): You know, I definitely wanna say to you know, someone that only watches fast and furious movies probably isn't gonna like Jeanine Diehlman, but, you know, the right kind of person is gonna wanna give it the attentions that it deserves. And I think seeing it in the theater is, like, for most movies, the best way to do it, especially a movie like that that maybe commands your attention a little bit more. You might be if you're watching it at home, you might be tempted to, like, pick up your phone and start, you know, looking up all the information on IMDb about the

Brad (36:28): movie as opposed to just watching the movie. So I wanna talk a little bit about the Cinematheque and its relation to Cleveland. You you mentioned the New Beverly a while ago. And I think the thing about the New Beverly is that it both reflects the mind of its owner. Right?

Brad (36:43): Like, it's a very Quentin Tarantino establishment. Yes. Yeah. But I feel like it's also a very LA like, what they show is it's very LA centric. And I think that go ahead, please.

Speaker 5 (36:55): No. I was gonna say that frequently, as a film programmer that's been working in Cleveland for many, many years, I'm very aware of, like, I see programs that the New Beverly does, and I always joke that still one of my favorite series of all times. They did us just to visit double feature, I think, but they called it Vanity and Sanity where they played, like, two movies starring Vanity. And I just thought that was I just love a cheesy name like that. It made me laugh.

Speaker 5 (37:19): But, like, if I did a Vanity and Sanity series here in in Cleveland, I'd get four people. You know what I mean? Like, this you just have to know that, you know, Los Angeles has millions and millions of people, and Cleveland does not. You know? So it's like the amount of people that are you and you have to program for that.

Speaker 5 (37:39): But the good thing about the cinematic is that unlike my mission with Cleveland Cinemas, which really was driven by you know, we have to make sure that something you know, there it's a profit based business. And so we had to make enough butts and seats to buy popcorn and stuff. The Cinematheque, we want butts in seats, but it's also a nonprofit arts organization that has additional elements to its mission. We want people there to see these movies. But if there's a really great challenging movie that I think probably only five or 10 people are gonna come see, I would still play it at the Cinematheque because I think it's important for that movie to have an outlet to be shown artistically, culturally, whatever.

Speaker 5 (38:16): And and, you know, maybe it's a very specific community that's looking for that movie, they're and gonna be so excited that we're showing it, and then maybe they'll discover other things that the cinematheque is playing. And I think that that sort of role that the cinematheque plays is so different than a theater like the Cedar Lee.

Brad (38:35): And I wanna ask about that as well, because I do think there's an element of, yes, we're in a smaller market here and we're in the Midwest. And so there's an element of exposing people to things they may not have seen if they're not in LA or New York. But I think the flip side then is how do you make the programming kind of reflect its Clevelandness? Like, that does that make sense?

Speaker 5 (38:57): Yeah. Oh, it makes total sense. You know, Clevelanders love to see Cleveland on screen. So anytime, you know, you show like, when I was at Capitol and Cedar League, we show Major League, which I think the Capitol is playing as part of the Ohio goes to the movie series soon. You know, people show up because they love to just see shots of Cleveland.

Speaker 5 (39:15): You know? And so there's just that. You know? It's been always joked, but no one's ever done it yet. Like, to show Howard the Duck.

Speaker 5 (39:23): You know, I'm sort of think I'm probably gonna show Howard the Duck at some point because it's a Cleveland movie that no one really shows and, you know, even it has, you know, Cleveland adjacent, I guess. But, yeah, Clevelanders do love you know, I'm originally from Pittsburgh, which I know is controversial to be from Pittsburgh and live in Cleveland. But, you know, Pittsburgh gets so much of its identity from its sports teams. And then Cleveland, since they didn't have the sort of, you know, traditionally the winningest records, their pride just seemed to come from their underdog kind of spirit. And so, you see people just walking around Cleveland just wearing shirts that say Cleveland.

Speaker 5 (40:01): You'd go to most cities, people aren't wearing a shirt that just says the name of the city that they're from. But Clevelanders really take it with a lot of pride. And, you know, the fact that, you know, Christmas Story House is becoming such a, you know, tourist destination, and they've turned that into a whole industry, you know. So I mean, Clevelanders really respond to a lot of hometown pride, and I respect that. And, you know, I I look forward to you know, anytime there's a local ish connection to something, I think it's worth exploring.

Speaker 5 (40:29): You know, I hope to try to bring in some, you know, hometown heroes. You know, there's a lot of people from Cleveland, you know, like, you know, David Wayne, and and she's having, you know, hot American summer, like, anniversary this year. And I've he's I've worked a little bit with him when I was at Cleveland Cinemas and stuff. So, you know, there's there's hometown people that I'm gonna try to be reaching out to to see if we can do things with them. You know, it's not always the easiest thing to convince people even that are from Cleveland to come back to Cleveland.

Speaker 5 (40:56): You know, Cleveland isn't a glamorous resort town. You know, when I worked for the Provincetown Film Festival, we would always have you know, we had big names. We had Tarantino. We had Tilton Swinton. Tilda Swinton.

Speaker 5 (41:06): We had, you know, Darren Aronofsky. We had, like, big name people, Oscar winning people because, oh, they get to go to this cool little resort town. And that's why a lot of the big prestigious film festivals are in fancy resort towns because fancy people like to go to fancy places. And Cleveland just isn't a fancy resort town, unfortunately, so it's hard to lure them here. Like, how how about a glamorous vacation in Cleveland?

Unknown Speaker (41:29): You know, that doesn't appeal to everybody other than maybe Drew Carey. Maybe maybe I he might do know. I've been I've

Brad (41:34): been trying to work on getting Carey Kuhn just to come on the show. I'm like, I live five minutes away from where you grew up. Just come just come talk about Copley with me for twenty minutes and then I'll

Speaker 5 (41:42): let you go. You know? Well, yeah. No. Well, we'll talk offline about Carrie.

Speaker 5 (41:48): No. Carrie's great. I love Carrie. We had her at no. I do.

Speaker 5 (41:51): I know Carrie. Her brother is one of my good friends. And yeah. So, no, Carrie, whenever Gone Girl was coming out, she did a q and a for us at the Capitol. I mean, Carrie's amazing.

Speaker 5 (42:01): I I love her. She's super funny, and that's the thing. Like, she's such an amazing dramatic actress, but no one has really given her the chance to be show how funny she is. So because she really is really funny. And her q and a's that she did at the Capitol, she killed.

Speaker 5 (42:16): She was just really very sharp witted. She's she's great. I love Carrie.

Brad (42:20): Yeah. We gotta get her back in town then. Alright. Dave, before I let you go, one last question here. Every time I've been to the Cinematheque, I have tried to line it up with not just a movie that I really wanna see on the big screen, but it's always in, you know, you're showing it on 35 or like it's a pristine print.

Brad (42:37): Usually you guys will make note of like how good the print is on something. I wanna talk just really quickly about like presentation style and why it's important, especially at the cinematheque, because I feel like in addition to the the curation element, there's kind of a preservation mantra at the cinematheque as well, that it is important to show movies on film when possible. Now I've seen like really degraded prints before, and it's like, okay, maybe we could have done a DCP on this one, you know? But like, I I wanna know where you stand on that, and is that kind of part of the expectation for your role or something you're passionate about apart from that?

Speaker 5 (43:14): I mean, if I if they let me know in advance, yes, we have a 35 millimeter print of this. Like, I'll just I'll pick a movie that I know is beautiful, and I know that there's a gorgeous Prince of, but but like Lawrence of Arabia. Say I wanted to show Lawrence of Arabia on film, and but for whatever reason, said, oh, the only print we have is in terrible shape. It's got scratches all through and all of sudden stuff. I'd be like, well, in that case, we'll show the the digital print.

Speaker 5 (43:37): We'll show the DCP. Because there, think the, you know, the presentation would really matter. There's a little bit of damage. If there's a little bit of scratches for depending on what the movie is, that adds to sort of, like, charm to it in a way as long as it's not terrible. And and then there's the flip side of that.

Speaker 5 (43:52): Like, if you're watching, like, kind of like a seventies grindhouse y horror movie or, like, you know, if we were showing some old Doris Wishman movie or something like that, that kind of, you know it adds a charm to it in a way. You know what I mean? It adds the to the kind of experience of seeing a film that is maybe not in the best condition. So this last weekend, I was in Helsinki, and coincidentally, there was just a John Waters series going on while I was there. And they they showed it on 35 millimeter.

Speaker 5 (44:23): So it was a 35 millimeter print of polyester with an Oderrama card, so that was nice. And was finished and Swedish subtitles. And the print was not in terrible shape, but like most 35 millimeter prints, the heads and the tails, so every time there's a real change, it was pretty scratchy and damaged. But overall, it was in pretty good shape. So, like, if they told me the only print available, it's a little bit of damage, has these subtitles, or you could show the digital print, I'd probably go, well, let's play the digital print.

Speaker 5 (44:49): You know? So but that's the kind of consideration. And you don't always know because sometimes they tell you the print's in better shape than it actually is because they it's not like they matatiosly go over every one of these when they come back. But most places that are now still playing film treat it with a tremendous amount of reverence and are really, like, cinematheque, not to get too, like, film nerdy, but, you know, we have a real to real system, which means there's two projectors. So, like, real number one's threaded up on this projector, then real number two's on this projector.

Speaker 5 (45:20): And at twenty minute mark, when you see the little cigarette burn, then the projectionist knows, alright. Time to start the other projector and then up now it's on that one. And when you show films on those real to real systems, that is less problematic, causes less damage to the films. Most mainstream, like multiplex cinemas, they use what's called a platter system where you have to cut the heads and the tails off of each film and you splice each reel together, and it's kind of on one giant flat platter system like this that feeds out instead of vertically. It's horizontal.

Speaker 5 (45:51): And, you know, that causes more damage to the film because, obviously, you're cutting it every time. Mhmm. And some people, because they're lazy, they would just keep making cuts because you always leave one frame of film to match it to make sure you know, like, which real like, alright. This is the last image on real one. This is matches up with that image.

Speaker 5 (46:09): But if someone's lazy and they don't wanna peel the splice tape off, they would just keep cutting. So, you know, that's that's why films get in bad shape because things like that. So the cinematheque and other repertory houses that are still showing film pretty much are almost I can't say this for sure, but I I can't imagine any of them have platter systems. And that means that because we're using the reel to reels, and that means that archives and collectors and things like that, we we can source 35 millimeter prints from those places as opposed to, you know, if we were back in the day, like, and we were just opening Jurassic Park and Universal was sending us a print, it was just, like, from their, you know, the prints that they just struck. Right.

Speaker 5 (46:51): These there's obviously not that many 35 millimeter prints left of some of these films. And sometimes there's only one or two in the world that they know of, so they wanna treat those extremely carefully.

Brad (47:00): Well, that's super fascinating. Alright. We are out of time, but I I wanna give you thirty seconds here. Give a quick plug for repertory cinema in general, then for the cinema tech as well.

Speaker 5 (47:14): I mean, like I said, if you're a movie lover, there's nothing like seeing a movie on the big screen. You've gotta have that experience, and you have to support places like the cinema tech because it's you buying a ticket that keeps them going. And it's just like how everybody memoans that there aren't as many bookstores or there aren't as many record stores and things like that. It's like, well, that's because people stop supporting them. So don't let repertory theaters and and movie theaters in general do that because it is such a critically part of our, you know, especially American culture.

Speaker 5 (47:44): You know, our American films obviously dominate most of the world still culturally outside of, like, India and China. You know, there's some markets that have huge film markets too. But for the most part, like, when you're in Europe, everyone is playing. You know? I just saw obsession at a multiplex in Helsinki this last weekend.

Speaker 5 (48:00): So, you know, those are the films that are playing at those theaters. They're not it's not packed with finished films. Yeah. So it's important to come out and support the cinematheque, and I hope you'll respond to the things I show. And I plan on showing all kinds of things, new stuff, old stuff, weird stuff.

Speaker 5 (48:14): I love weird movies. So, you know, the weirder the better in my book.

Brad (48:19): Well, Dave Huffman, new director at the Cleveland Cinematheque, thank you so much for joining us today and telling us a little bit more about repertory theater.

Unknown Speaker (48:28): Sure. Well, thank you very much, Robert.

Brad (48:30): We'll be back on Tuesday with another regularly scheduled episode, but until then, I'm Bob Book, and we'll see you next time.

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