Sinners (2025) / Bardstown Bourbon Company Bottled-in-Bond

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In 2025, director Ryan Coogler
and star Michael B Jordan gave

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the world a wild dive into the
dark underbelly of the Jim Crow

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South.
In 2026, we revisit one of our

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favorite brands with a new
label.

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The film is sinners, the.
Whiskey is Bardstown Bourbon

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Company bottled and bond.
And we'll review them both.

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This is the Film and Whiskey
podcast.

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Welcome to the Film and Whiskey
podcast, where each week we

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review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

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I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad Gee and I am drinking

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whiskey at 10:17 in the morning.
Yeah, you are.

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Does that make me a Sinner?
Does that make me a Sinner?

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But.
It sure does.

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I thought you were actually
going to say I'm Brad Gee and I

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am a Sinner.
I was like, let's mean let's

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just get into it, man.
The the Christian a a meeting.

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Yes, I too am a Sinner 100%.
Folks, welcome into film and

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whiskey.
If this is your first time

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joining us, we're excited to
have you on board.

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As we look at between last week
and this week, the 2 front

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runners for the upcoming Academy
Awards that are coming in what,

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Brad?
Three weeks at this point?

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Is it already pretty quick?
Wow man, timely.

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Content Yeah, 2026.
Is rolling.

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This is also the last episode of
season 10 Brad, the last regular

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episode.
Which means after today, all we

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have left to do for season 10 is
our bracket challenge where we

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take all 32 movies from season
#10 we seed them into a madness

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style bracket and we determine
what is the only film allowed to

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remain in existence in this
fight to the death between all

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our movies.
Now that's I guess that's the

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question now season one has will
have an unfair advantage over

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all the other seasons.
Like what if we what if we

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choose a different film from the
first time around and now

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there's two movies from season
1.

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And like, how do we
philosophically deal with the

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ramification that we already
threw these 31 other movies into

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the fire Inferno?
We.

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Have to retcon a little bit.
We have to find out that they

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actually hid in the back of the
furnace all those movies and

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they were we rescued them just
to throw some of them back in

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again.
You know, it's, it's cruel, but

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it's what we do here on film and
whiskey.

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Guys, welcome into the podcast.
Let's start talking about the

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movie sinners, Brad.
Last week we did do 1 battle

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after another.
This week we're looking at its

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chief competitor for best
Picture.

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And I think, you know, the best
place to start is just to kind

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of set the stage with the
historical context of the movie.

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Sinners.
This is our third Ryan Coogler

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movie that we've done on the
podcast, We've done Creed and

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Black Panther.
I would love for us to get

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around to doing Fruitvale
Station someday 'cause I still

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think that's his best movie.
And I still think that even

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after watching Sinners.
No spoilers.

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Was that his?
Was that his first film?

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I don't know if it was his first
feature film, but it's the first

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one that like made him a
prominent film maker.

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So I'm good for all intents and
purposes.

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I'm going to say yes.
But now he's kind of been given

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a blank check after all of his
success with the Creed movies

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and the Black Panther films.
And he decides, like, I'm going

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to write an original non IP
based movie.

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Warner Brothers.
You're going to give me like

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$150 million to make this movie?
Original.

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You're going to give me a bunch
of money to make this movie.

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And he did.
And honestly, like, it sounds

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like a low bar to sets.
And I think this is kind of

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where we're at in the world of
cinema today that that someone

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should be praised just for that.
But it is exceedingly rare.

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Like it's it's him and it's Paul
Thomas Anderson this year.

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And you know, you've got like
your Christopher Nolan's who

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kind of get a blank check now.
And beyond that, there's not a

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lot of film makers who have the
cachet to just say, I'm going to

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write my own movie.
I'm going to direct my own

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movie, give me a big pile of
money.

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So Sinners is significant in
2025 just for that, Brad.

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Curious in the history of film,
Like, I'm thinking like 50s,

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seventies, 90s, like, was it
common for directors to write

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their own films?
Because that seems to be like,

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the cool thing nowadays is like,
oh, he's really a filmmaker.

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He can write his own movie and
direct it.

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And like, you know, Tarantino
has done that for a long time.

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But is that something that's
been common throughout the

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history?
Like was was Francis writing

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Apocalypse Now back in the day?
Or was he like working with

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somebody to write it?
Yeah, that's actually a great

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example.
Cause Francis Ford Coppola

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started as a screenwriter, won
an Oscar as a screenwriter and

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then started directing.
And yes, he wrote the Godfather

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movies, which were adapted,
right, But and, and Apocalypse

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Now, which is also adapted.
But Hollywood has a long

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history, you know, going back
to, I guess you could say

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Charlie Chaplin, right?
Wrote and directed all of his

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own movies.
You've got in the golden age,

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you've got guys like Billy
Wilder who are writing and

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directing.
So there's definitely, there's

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something about the like, auteur
experience.

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Yeah, where if you've also
written the movie, you're really

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the author of the movie 'cause
it's like, no one can argue

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against it at that point.
And, and Ryan Coogler seems to

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have joined those ranks now.
The other thing that's

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historically significant about
this movie is that it just broke

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the record for the most
nominated film in the history of

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the Academy Awards.
And it didn't just break it, it

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broke it by two nominations.
So like, screw you.

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All About Eve and Titanic and La
La Land, which were tied for 14

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sinners has 16 nominations this
year, Brad and having watched

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the film, which is it's a good
movie, but like this is it's

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crazy to think that like this is
the movie that got 16

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nominations.
Now is this is this an example

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of inflation like are there more
categories now so that like so?

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They added, yeah, they added a
new category for the first time

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this year, which is casting, and
it got the nomination for that,

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but they used to have for.
Double cast for double casting

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Michael B Jordan in two roles.
That's exactly what it is.

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But they need an Oscar.
Could do a lot in this movie.

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They used to have two sound
categories, which was really

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confusing.
They had sound mixing and sound

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editing and now they're just
like it's best sound.

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So it be like there's a new
category but they took one away

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too so sure.
OK, so things are evened out.

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So, so it is a true 16.
It's not like now when Miles

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Garrett gets, you know, 24 sacks
in 17 games versus 16, you know,

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we're, we're, we're staying,
staying the same.

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For sure, Brad, I think it's
time for us to talk about this

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movie in earnest.
It's a first time watch for you.

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It's just a second time watch
for me.

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So I'm excited to kind of parse
out our thoughts on this one.

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But in order to do that, we have
to get into our first segment of

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the day, which we call, Brad
explains.

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Brad's going to give us the
movie plots with only 60 seconds

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sticking on the clock, so let's
go ahead and do your take with

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this little segment that we
call, Brad explains.

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Brad Explains is the part of the
show where Brad breaks down the

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plot of the movie that he has
just seen often for the first

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time.
Now Brad, you did not get caught

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up in the IMAX multi format hype
of this movie.

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And can I quick aside, I'm so
sick of this like we shot this

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on 70 millimetre.
We shot this on IMAX and so you

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have to see it in IMAX or on 70
or you can drive 8 hours in IMAX

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and 70.
It's like does your movie hold

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up at my local movie Plex?
Because if it doesn't then like

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I don't care about seeing it in
iPad.

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Yeah, but Bob, you're not,
you're not a real cinephile if

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you don't drive 8 hours to see
it in New York City.

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Like, come on, you, you don't.
You don't deserve to be at the

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the highest echelons of movie
critiques.

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I mean, this is this is a fact.
This is a given, Brad.

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So there's my there's my rant
for the day.

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Stop doing this stupid premium
format thing where you have to

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see it 8 different times to get
the full experience.

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Brad, you saw it in what I'm
sure Ryan Coogler would love HBO

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Max format on probably.
Amazon screen Amazon prime

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streaming on Amazon prime right
now so before we do Brad

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explains you can go watch it on
Amazon prime because I know all

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of that's.
Right, because fun fact about

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Brad explains he's going to
spoil the entire movie here.

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So if you have not seen Sinners,
I would recommend hitting pause

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here and going and watching this
film.

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It's a little long, like 2 hours
and 20 minutes ish.

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Not quite as long as one battle
after another, but it does not

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approach the 90 minute film mark
that we so dearly love.

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Brad, go watch Sinners come back
and listen to Brad explain and

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spoil this movie.
Brad, you get 60 seconds and go.

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Sinners is a film that follows a
set of twins as they seek to

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open open up a Juke joint in the
Jim Crow 1930s Mississippi

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region.
They returned to the town that

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they grew up in after spending a
lifetime up in Chicago as

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gangsters, supposedly working
with Al Capone.

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They come back and buy a old
gristmill from somebody who's

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totally not a part of the Klan.
Definitely not a part of the

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Klan.
Bob, the Klan's over, didn't you

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hear?
And they go about the town.

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They buy groceries, they talk to
old flames, they have sex.

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It's a great time everybody's
having.

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Fun with their old flames.
Sorry with their old.

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Yes, not.
Not with each other.

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It's not that kind of movie.
Important distinction.

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And then vampires happen and and
vampires try to get into the

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building, but they can't because
they're not invited.

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And then, and then one of the
persons inside invites them in

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and there's death and
everybody's dying and it's slow

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motion and, and the the preacher
boy is playing guitar and he

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stabs the guy in the head with
it and, and and it's bad and

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it's wild and sinners cause
'cause sin.

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Yeah, Brad, there's a lot of
directions we can go.

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I think that like, let's start
with the most kind of innocuous

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one, which is vampire movies.
We've, I don't think we've ever

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done a vampire movie on this
podcast, which is crazy.

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Like we have not done any
adaptations of Dracula or

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anything related.
Like this is our first vampire

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movie.
We should probably review

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Twilight.
Yeah.

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I mean, obviously, yeah, that
should have come up on our box

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office year.
That's what.

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We probably just related it.
I think we did actually.

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He probably did.
First vampire movie.

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I freaking love a good vampire
movie because there is something

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like, there's something so
inherently like cheesy about

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vampire movies.
But if you do them well, and I

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think this movie does it,
there's a level of kind of

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sensual, sexual, psychosexual
nature with that.

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Like, you gotta bite the neck.
Like there's a very intimate

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area to get bitten on.
And I think that you can have a

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sexy vampire movie and it can be
fun.

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You're not gonna have like a
sexy Frankenstein movie, You

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know what I mean?
Like this, it's just not gonna

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happen.
He's literally stitched.

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Together from multiple corpses,
it's.

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Just, yeah, Not the smell alone,
not not as sexy.

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So I think that there's
something about a vampire movie

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that even if it is intending to
terrify you, it's there's a

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layer of fun to it.
And I think that this movie,

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whatever else we might say about
it throughout the course of the

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episode here, understands that
vampire movies are supposed to

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be fun and entertaining, and
it's definitely going for that.

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We just like, go through all the
other horror tropes and be like,

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sexy or not like zombies.
Probably not sexy.

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Goes demons.
Yeah, demons.

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Really sexy.
Night.

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Well, but you got succubus,
right?

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00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,480
You got some sexy, sexy humans
out there.

224
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,280
Mummies not sexy at all.
Not sexy at all.

225
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,440
Ghosts could be.
You could have some pretty sexy.

226
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,840
Oh, so you got Patrick Swayze?
There's right.

227
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,360
Yeah, you could.
And there's the element of

228
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,040
surprise involved.
You never know.

229
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,680
Like werewolves.
It depends on your preference

230
00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:51,920
for hair, I guess.
Right.

231
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:52,360
Sure.
Like.

232
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,160
Yeah, yeah, you might be into
that kind of thing.

233
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,400
Body horror.
Probably not.

234
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,200
Not into that so much.
No.

235
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,520
Yeah.
OK, Brad, Sinners is a vampire

236
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,360
movie.
Vampire movies are fun.

237
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,240
I would love to hear your
feedback on that.

238
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,120
And apparently sexy.
They are kind of sexy.

239
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,680
You don't think that there's an
element of sexual tension going

240
00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:17,520
on with vampires?
I am.

241
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,000
Sure that I know for a fact that
that would turn on a lot of

242
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,720
people.
I do not personally find there

243
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,040
to be anything sexual.
I'm not saying are you

244
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,040
personally turned on by
vampires.

245
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,480
I'm just saying that like
there's a seductive nature to

246
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,880
like how a vampire goes about
its prey.

247
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,840
Like you got to get them in
close quarters, you got to get

248
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,560
the neck.
Like it's it's way different

249
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,080
than just like a werewolf jumps
on you and eats you.

250
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,960
Sure.
Yeah, that's true.

251
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,800
Yeah.
You have to be invited in to be

252
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:52,720
consumed.
Yeah.

253
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,040
Yeah, you do.
This is off the rails already.

254
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,400
OK, that was supposed to be my
innocuous point.

255
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,920
Do you or do you not find
vampire movies to be fun?

256
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,840
I guess is the question I'm
trying to ask you here.

257
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,520
I have not seen a lot of vampire
movies.

258
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,400
I have seen all the Twilight
movies.

259
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:16,920
I made my friend group in
Kentucky sit out like, like, all

260
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,160
right, this is more of a story
than I thought it would be.

261
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,560
I was talking about Buddy
Steven.

262
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,720
And we were like, yeah, we read
the Twilights, but we never

263
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,080
watched the movies, and we're
always just curious how bad they

264
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,360
were.
So we made our entire friend

265
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,680
group watch all the Twilights,
and we drank a lot.

266
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,560
Sorry, we didn't drink in the
housing development where you

267
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,600
weren't allowed to drink.
And we definitely had an

268
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,280
absolute blast as a friend group
watching all four Twilight

269
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,360
movies.
Those might be the only Twilight

270
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,720
they're vampire movies I've ever
seen.

271
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:55,600
I really don't know if I've seen
any other vampire movies.

272
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,600
So we're starting off strong
here with Sinners because I will

273
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,040
say, no matter what happens,
Sinners is better than all those

274
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,960
Twilight movies.
So there you go.

275
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,400
Better than Twilight.
I'll I'll give Twilight one

276
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,960
shout out.
Bob, the scene when Bella is

277
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,680
depressed and the camera just
circles her and the windows

278
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,560
change season each time it like
shows the windows is an

279
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,000
incredible shot and a great
encapsulation of depression.

280
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,320
So you know, they did that
perfectly.

281
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,720
Whatever you say, man.
All right, sinners.

282
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,520
All right, so sinners vampire
movies.

283
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,120
I am not a classically, I don't
like horror films.

284
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,560
Bob not interested.
I don't mind like psychological

285
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,960
horror.
I enjoy a good Vertigo like I I

286
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,480
can get down with some of those.
I don't enjoy just like

287
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,520
visceral, like I'm just going to
kill things to kill things and

288
00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,320
like Saw type of things that
like I just have no interest in

289
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,360
those types of movies.
I think sinners kind of falls

290
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,000
somewhere in the middle of all
that.

291
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,400
Like it's very clearly a
character drama.

292
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,240
You, you have these two twins,
both played by Michael B Jordan,

293
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,120
that are coming back to the
Bayou and they're trying to

294
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,520
reconnect with old friends, old
flames.

295
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,600
And I think that the first 40
minutes of this movie I really

296
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,800
loved.
And I have to tell you, Bob, I,

297
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,480
I watched this movie in two
segments and I think it was the

298
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,200
most perfect two segments that
you can imagine.

299
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,320
I watched it was like literally
41 minutes of the movie and it

300
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,440
was getting late and I was tired
and I was sick and I was like, I

301
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:48,000
need to get some sleep.
And so I hit pause right as the

302
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,640
two Chinese grocers are driving
the goods to the Juke joint.

303
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,560
And then it cuts and it's just a
farm field.

304
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,760
And I was like, ah, this seems
like a good place to pause.

305
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,200
So I hit pause and I, I
literally walked away being

306
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,160
like, man, I thought, but I've
read somewhere that this movie

307
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:10,839
is about vampires and clearly
it's just like a black drama

308
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,800
about like trying to reclaim
their heritage and and

309
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,760
reintegrate into a society they
were once were a part of.

310
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,119
And like this is I was really
enjoying it.

311
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:27,640
I hit play like 2-3 days later
last night and immediately this

312
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,720
dude jumps from behind the
camera and he's like he he, he

313
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,560
looks like he has burns.
You realize later that he's

314
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,640
melting and he goes in and gets
entrance and is eating the

315
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,280
husband.
And I'm like, oh, this.

316
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,000
And like the rest of the movie
was the wildest ride I think

317
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,320
I've ever been on.
So it was.

318
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,240
It was a pretty crazy experience
watching this movie.

319
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,360
I don't think you could have
split that up any better, Brad.

320
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:57,120
And it also gets to like the
core question that we're going

321
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:59,880
to have to tackle here today,
which is the big criticism that

322
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,200
I've seen from people who didn't
like this movie was that it just

323
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,000
doesn't work with all the layers
it's trying to layer on top of

324
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,960
each other, that there is this
kind of like really moving

325
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:17,480
character drama happening that
sets up for this really fun

326
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,400
somewhat can't be horror movie.
And can those two things either

327
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:27,040
live in tension with each other
or cohere or neither?

328
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,560
And I think that like, that's
kind of what we have to tackle

329
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,240
here today, Brad, because I
still don't know where I stand

330
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,760
on it.
I think ultimately I am positive

331
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,480
on this movie.
It was a fun movie.

332
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,520
I liked it a lot.
There's obvious care and craft

333
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,040
going into like every aspect of
this movie.

334
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,920
And it shows in how many Oscar
nominations it's gotten.

335
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:51,040
I still don't know if it totally
holds together or works as a

336
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,280
movie.
And I and yet I like it.

337
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,240
And I think that that's kind of
like there's, there's my, my

338
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,640
opening thesis statement here
and I'm ready to interrogate

339
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,040
that with you because I don't
really know how to approach it

340
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:03,680
beyond that.
And.

341
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,280
I, I think we're going to
occasionally throughout this

342
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,800
episode, like compare and
contrast it to 1 battle after

343
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,360
another, because those are the 2
that are fighting for the Oscar.

344
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,920
They're the two movies we just
reviewed.

345
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:24,400
I think I like this movie
doesn't have quite the technical

346
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,440
craft that one battle after
another has.

347
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,200
Like I, I think PTA is just a
better director.

348
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,320
He's a, he's more mature, he's
been around for a long time and

349
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,480
he's been kind of that auteur
for a long time.

350
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,680
I, I think it's a better movie
craft wise.

351
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,520
I found myself at times
throughout this being like, man,

352
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,160
like is that ACGI train or not?
And I'm like, I'm pretty sure

353
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,520
that's ACGI train coming in And
it, it reminded me of like, I

354
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,040
have a buddy that I'll
occasionally like will stream

355
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,560
anime and watch it together.
And then anime hand drawn stuff

356
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,760
is like 70% of the anime, but
it's just so much cheaper to do

357
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,280
CGI that whenever there's like
fast moving objects, they're

358
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,200
usually CGI.
And so he and I will be like CGI

359
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,520
horse CGI clock and like we call
it out.

360
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,360
And I felt like watching this
movie.

361
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:21,040
I'm like CGI trained CGI.
Cigarette going between the two

362
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,000
Michael B Jordans like it.
It felt fake at certain points

363
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:30,160
and I I did not enjoy that.
I think that the color in this

364
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,600
movie is either really bright
washed out or really dark.

365
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,440
Hard to see anything.
Yes.

366
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,120
So I'm like I'll I just I think
what I'm trying to do is get a

367
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,680
get a few of my critiques out of
the way to be like the craft of

368
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,480
this movie isn't as sharp as one
battle after another.

369
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:54,280
You don't get an incredible like
heat making the pavement kind of

370
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,360
glimmer as the car chases out.
Like you're not getting that in

371
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,760
this movie.
What you are getting is like

372
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,640
some wild action and some
interesting character

373
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:12,160
relationships and some really
great music and like dude, when

374
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,160
the when the Irish dude was like
leading them all in a little

375
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,160
Riverdance and he's doing his
little thing, it's incredible.

376
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:24,120
Like stunningly good.
So I, I think this movie just is

377
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,240
weird.
Am I allowed to say that?

378
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,680
It is such a weird movie and I'm
here for it.

379
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,360
It it will stick in my mind
longer than one battle after

380
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,880
another will.
I think that's a good, that's a

381
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,720
good place to start then.
And I want to kind of break down

382
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,040
the narrative structure of the
movie.

383
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:44,640
And you did a really good job of
that.

384
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,920
And Brad explains.
But like, you know, in broad

385
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:54,400
strokes, these two guys who are
sinners, they buy this Juke

386
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,560
joint.
They buy this old mill off of

387
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,080
the clan to start their Juke
joint.

388
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,880
And when the sun goes down, you
would think the clan's going to

389
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,160
come and kill them all.
But instead of the clan, it's

390
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,280
vampires.
And then at the end of the

391
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,400
movie, you get this kind of
tacked on ending where the clan

392
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,000
actually does come.
And it's kind of like a, you

393
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,480
know, whatever.
But there is a world where Ryan

394
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,400
Coogler makes this movie, and it
is a straight drama where the

395
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,480
black folk inside of the Juke
joint have to defend themselves

396
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,960
against an attack by the Ku Klux
Klan.

397
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,440
And you could make it just as
cheesy and corny in ways you

398
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,640
know that you could portray the
clan as like the biggest idiots

399
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,240
in the world.
It could be very close to what

400
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,160
you had with the the Clan ride
in Django Unchained I think.

401
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:44,280
Who the hell sold these hoods
this way?

402
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:45,440
Yeah.
Exactly.

403
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,760
And I think that that movie
works, right?

404
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,040
Yes.
So there has to be a reason that

405
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,720
he decides I don't want it to be
the clan.

406
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,800
I want it to be vampires, which
can function as a metaphor for

407
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,640
the clan or a metaphor for, you
know, white America or whatever

408
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,840
you would have it to be.
What I would like to figure out,

409
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,440
Brad, there's there's a couple
questions we can answer.

410
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,400
One, does this work as well or
better if there's just no

411
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:18,240
vampire element to the movie?
And then B, let's parse out what

412
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,800
we think the vampires actually
represent, because I think that

413
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,920
the metaphor gets kind of
muddled at multiple points

414
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,040
throughout the movie.
I I struggle to keep up with

415
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,800
that.
So I guess the first question

416
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,840
then, well, I don't want to take
the vampire stuff out of this

417
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,440
movie because it's fun as hell.
Like I, I don't, I don't want to

418
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,200
watch the non vampire version,
but I do wonder, like, does it

419
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:43,240
cohere more if it's not vampires
and it's just like some racist

420
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,880
white clan group?
Yeah.

421
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,400
I mean it makes for a simpler
movie right?

422
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,600
Like 2 black men go into the
white N quote UN quote and

423
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,000
operate as gangsters and you
know they make it clear that

424
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,240
they stole.
A large amount.

425
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,280
Of liquor from both sides of the
white tribalism and then peace

426
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,320
out so that they get angry at
each other.

427
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,640
So they they played the white
man and now they're coming back

428
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,400
down to their cultural heritage
to where they grew up, and now

429
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,280
they have to fight the overtly
racist white man who's trying to

430
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,960
kill them.
That's a very straightforward,

431
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,440
basic plot that I, I think would
have played well in today's

432
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,960
culture.
I think it would have made for

433
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,840
an interesting film.
I think if you do that, then you

434
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,320
have to develop the Klansman
villain much more like the, the

435
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,920
main guy that they buy the, they
buy the gristmill from.

436
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,040
Like you have to develop him and
make him into more of a less

437
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,680
cartoony and more serious
hopefully.

438
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,680
It makes for an interesting.
Movie.

439
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,720
I don't know.
I don't know.

440
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,400
Maybe it does make for a Oscar
nominated film.

441
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,520
It probably would that.
Sounds like an Oscar movie.

442
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,160
I think it does for a less
interesting movie, though.

443
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,840
Like ultimately I I like that
he's trying for something here

444
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,600
in meshing these two formats
together.

445
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,840
And I also like that there's
like the the historical drama

446
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,080
stuff is it doesn't feel Oscar
Beatty to me.

447
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,920
It's not people like overacting.
It feels very lived in this

448
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,040
entire world that they've built
when they're like driving down

449
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,560
the dirt road and Delroy Lindo
is talking about what happened

450
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,680
with him and his partner that he
used to go around with.

451
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,720
And like, that's a it's a
harrowing story.

452
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,280
And I think that they create
this world that feels very true.

453
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,400
And also Ryan Coogler's like,
but I love 80s and 90s campy

454
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,760
slasher horror movies, and I
want to get an element of that

455
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,320
in there, too.
And so that vampire thing

456
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,040
becomes the bridge in we have to
find a way to make these

457
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,320
vampires be a metaphor for
something.

458
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,720
And you know, Brad, we've got 10
minutes here before we go to

459
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,120
break.
Let's let's try to figure out

460
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,720
like, what do the vampires
actually represent?

461
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,920
Because they're clearly drawn to
the mill, the Juke joint by the

462
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,680
playing of Preacher Boy, who's
kind of our main protagonist,

463
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,880
Michael B Jordan's the lead.
But like, the movie's about

464
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,720
Preacher Boy and he's trying to
break free from his for his

465
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,320
oppressive dad, who is a a a
preacher and he has a huge

466
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,160
talent for playing the Blues.
And you get this scene where at

467
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,960
the beginning of the movie they
walk you through this idea that

468
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:36,800
like people who who can play
music well are channeling

469
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,960
something and are a conduit to
like spirits both past and

470
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,120
future.
And when Sammy plays the Blues,

471
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,640
it conjures spirits of their
ancestors and their descendants.

472
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,440
It's a really cool shot where
you get hip hop people and also

473
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,480
like African tribes represented
as spirits in the room.

474
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,440
And then you get this visual
metaphor of like they've burned

475
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,400
down the place with their music,
I guess.

476
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,560
And then the vampires show up.
We've also called the vampires

477
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,240
to us and the vampires whole
thing is yes, we will like bite

478
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,240
and kill all these people 'cause
we need to eat.

479
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,280
But we want Sammy, we want
Sammy's gifts to be subsumed

480
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,480
into what we do.
And there's one lead vampire and

481
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,840
I think it was Remic right?
And I'll say it's like a.

482
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,520
Weird Borg like sci-fi type of
thing where they're not just

483
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,720
vampire like traditional
vampires are just normal people

484
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,960
that live forever and have to
drink human blood, right.

485
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,480
These are like a mind net, like
all their brains and

486
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,760
experiences.
And like once I once I turn Bob

487
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,400
into a vampire, I have every
memory that Bob has like that.

488
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,160
Like that's a very clear
departure from the classic

489
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,160
vampire troupe.
Yeah.

490
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:53,920
And you know what?
That's.

491
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,480
Actually, let me stop explaining
the movie here and let's talk

492
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,600
about like I'm not usually a big
lore guy.

493
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,400
I don't care about fantasy film.
I don't care.

494
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,240
You need 10 more minutes on on.
Remic's background no.

495
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,040
I just need to.
Understand like what these

496
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,800
vampires are like, it's just
throughout the movie, they're

497
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,440
just kind of like you, you get
Michael B Jordan's, well, one of

498
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,600
the Michael B Jordan's wife, the
one that does kind of like the

499
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,560
the hoodoo.
That's like, hey, these aren't

500
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,240
haints, they're vampires.
And I know that now and here's

501
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,160
the rules that I know about
vampires.

502
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,520
But then like they're doing
other stuff beyond that, You

503
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,040
know, sometimes they look
demonic and they have long

504
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,000
fingers and sometimes they can
hide all their like their baits

505
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,520
and everything else and pass as
just regular people.

506
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,680
There's really no explanation at
any point except for like a few

507
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,760
throwaway lines, like you said,
where someone just randomly says

508
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,880
like, yeah, once I bite them, I
have all their memories and we

509
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,960
all know the songs now and we
all do this.

510
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,760
So it it's never quite
explained, and some of it can be

511
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,480
inferred, but then some of it
just ends up being confusing,

512
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,000
Yeah.
And, and I think I, I actually

513
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,200
don't mind that too much.
For me, it, it was an

514
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,640
interesting evolution of the
vampire genre that I clearly

515
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,360
have seen so much of.
But to take like, you know,

516
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,080
'cause for me and like fantasy,
there is this trope of like

517
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,720
plant based hive minds where
like once the spores infect you,

518
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,720
you are now a part of the hive
mind and you have all their

519
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,360
memories and they have all
yours.

520
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,560
And the goal of the hive mind is
to subsume all consciousness

521
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,960
within itself.
Like that.

522
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,080
Like that says somewhat I get it
was in Halo 2 for Pete's sake.

523
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,280
Like that there's this this
reality in media that has been

524
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,360
around for a long time.
And so to pair that with

525
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,680
vampires to be like not.
Only do we suck.

526
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,720
Your blood, but we also like
turn you into this hive mind.

527
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,120
I think that's the key to
unlocking what the vampires

528
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,400
represent.
And I think a lot of people have

529
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:09,760
realized this is to say that
whatever whiteness is, it has

530
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,920
turned into a hive mind and it's
trying to subsume black culture.

531
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,480
And that seems to be what
Coogler is trying to say with

532
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,440
this now, I like he kind of
muddies the waters a little bit

533
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,280
because when Sammy is about to
be eaten by the the lead Irish

534
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,840
vampire, he starts, he returns
to his roots.

535
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,000
He goes, you know, our father
who art in heaven, hallowed be

536
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,040
thy name.
And the Irish vampire goes, I

537
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,080
remember my father saying the
same words.

538
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,640
They bring me comfort sometimes
too.

539
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,600
But he but he talks about like
those Christians came and

540
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,920
conquered our land too.
And so it's like this like.

541
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,680
Weird.
OK, Are we an anti Christian

542
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,840
film now where we're saying that
like Christianity is what has

543
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:07,560
turned white culture into this
monolithic subsuming Borgian

544
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,680
death ball like that has?
Subsumed.

545
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,760
White culture into it and now
white culture is now subsuming

546
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,480
black culture into this
Christian thing.

547
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,320
Like, I don't, I don't know, is
that, is that what he's trying

548
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,160
to say with that scene 'cause
that seems pretty key to the my

549
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,440
my.
My major problems with the movie

550
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,400
is that the metaphor works on
like the first 2 levels down,

551
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,120
but it doesn't work when you get
deeper down than that.

552
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,240
And not really not really good,
right?

553
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,320
A really good allegory or
metaphor will work like

554
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,080
continuously the further down
you get as you take that

555
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,760
metaphor to its logical
extremes.

556
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,400
And I think that ultimately what
the vampires represent is that

557
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,040
they are juxtaposed to the clan,
which is like, if you're a black

558
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,720
person in the South, there is
this like, existential threat to

559
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,720
your existence in the clan that
is like, they want to kill and

560
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,560
eradicate you.
But there's also this kind of

561
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,080
more sinister threat,
existential threat to black

562
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,520
culture, which is that like
Martin Luther King called it

563
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,200
something like he talked about
the the moderate a lot in the

564
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,600
letter from Birmingham Jail and
how the moderate is like the

565
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,160
most dangerous thing to
advancing the cause of of black

566
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,640
freedom in America.
And I think that Coogler's kind

567
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,240
of getting at that a little bit
where?

568
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,000
Taking what?
Makes a culture unique and

569
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,880
subsuming it into this monolith,
but then not allowing it to

570
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,920
continue to have its uniqueness
that it just kind of gets

571
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,400
diluted down into the shared
experience where nobody has any

572
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,320
uniqueness to them anymore is
another kind of existential

573
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,960
threat to the black experience
in America.

574
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,000
And what I do really like about
what Coogler is doing is that he

575
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,320
doesn't he doesn't make it the
sort of simplistic like white

576
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,280
people bad movie because he
makes the vampire, the main

577
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,080
vampire, an Irish guy and says
like this happened to me too.

578
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,360
And I think what he's trying to
say is, like, this has happened

579
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,760
throughout history where the
like the ruling culture, the

580
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,640
oppressors, the conquerors have
diluted down and subsumed the

581
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,400
parts of a culture that they
like for themselves.

582
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,040
But that ultimately all that
does is take away everybody

583
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,120
else's uniqueness.
And that there is something to

584
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,640
being able to say like this
thing is ours and it makes us

585
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,800
unique and we can share these
gifts to you, but not

586
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,680
necessarily with you.
And again, I think that's the

587
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,440
argument that he's trying to
make here.

588
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Whether or not that argument is
told or conveyed 100%

589
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,080
accurately, I think that's
what's what I'm still struggling

590
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,680
with here.
And that's the.

591
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,160
Danger of making it a fun
vampire movie like I like.

592
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,600
For better or for worse, there's
going to be a level of depth

593
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,760
that you miss out on by making
it a cool, violent horror.

594
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,040
Horror light I would call.
It vampire movie.

595
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,639
I do I'm.
Curious your thoughts.

596
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,960
Like I I've really.
This movies made me think a lot

597
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,400
and I I I in my in my research
for two facts and a falsehood, I

598
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:30,639
was reading about how the woman
who plays the wife of the grocer

599
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,840
I.
I don't remember her.

600
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,199
Name right now was talking about
how they specifically did

601
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:40,400
research on the Chinese history
in the Bayou in southern

602
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:47,639
Mississippi and how once slavery
was eradicated, the the slave

603
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:52,239
owners, the former slave owners
hired a bunch of Chinese labor

604
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,040
because it was super cheap.
And they were like, well, you

605
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,360
know, we can pay these black
people.

606
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,520
And they did.
And they brought in Chinese

607
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,200
labor to who could pay them dirt
cheap and they could still, you

608
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,120
know, maintain their profits,
blah blah blah.

609
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,240
The Chinese.
Started working there and the

610
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,560
the labor was hard, the wages
were high were low.

611
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,720
They weren't making any money.
And there's this history that

612
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:21,320
they're proud of that this this
woman specifically talked about

613
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,880
how her ancestors in the
Southern Bayou opened up grocery

614
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,920
stores and they started
entrepreneurial endeavors and

615
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,200
they like got out of the cotton
fields.

616
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,000
So I think my question is.
Why?

617
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:43,520
Why don't we look at things like
what they they were celebrating?

618
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,160
Like Chinese people figured out
how to deal with the bullshit

619
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,360
they were being dealt with and
the smoke sack twins figured out

620
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,680
a way to deal with the bullshit
and they went up and they were,

621
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,120
they were sinners up in the
north with white people.

622
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,200
And then they came back.
I, it just all feels muddled to

623
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,200
me.
And I, as I say all this, I

624
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,680
don't even know if I have a
question.

625
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,960
Makes sense of it for the Bob.
Well, Brad as the resident.

626
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,080
Expert on race in America?
Yeah.

627
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,440
No, honestly, like I, I.
Have no answer for you beyond

628
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,000
like, I think 2 things are
probably happening here. 1 is

629
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,920
that we've already established
the metaphor gets a little

630
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,720
muddled sometimes.
And like the Chinese characters

631
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,120
in this movie are very
interesting because they are

632
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,880
they're included as kind of this
marginalized group and accepted

633
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,440
by the black people in that
area.

634
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,520
But you're right, they also seem
to have some level of upward

635
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,440
mobility afforded to them that
the black people in this movie

636
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,040
don't.
And I don't know enough about

637
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,880
the workings of the South at
this time to say, like, is that

638
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,920
historically accurate?
Are there reasons that that

639
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,520
would be the case?
Or is this just like, maybe the

640
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,280
script needed another pass to
tighten up these characters and

641
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,560
the loose ends and the questions
that we have about them?

642
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:01,400
But yeah, I'm, I'm with you in
that like there is there are

643
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,880
metaphors and arguments being
made about race in America.

644
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,280
And I think more specifically
about like being a black

645
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,000
creative in America.
Like preacher boy is Ryan

646
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,000
Coogler talking about Ryan
Coogler, right?

647
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,440
Like, sure, I am a creative
person and I have this gift and

648
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,640
I feel tied down to a, to maybe
the black church, right?

649
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,880
Like this thing that like I feel
like is keeping me from

650
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,280
expressing myself fully.
So I need to feel like I need to

651
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,600
run away from that which he is
set like.

652
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,400
I just want to make sure I'm not
wrong on this because I'm open

653
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,240
to being wrong he's.
Saying that the black.

654
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:42,920
Church is essentially white
America forcing a level of see

655
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,160
that's the question is like.
The only evidence we really have

656
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,520
of that is what Remix says about
white people force Christianity

657
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,040
on us.
And I think that like, yes,

658
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,280
there is a large segment of
black America that also to this

659
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,160
day will say, like, Christianity
is a white person's religion

660
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,760
that was forced upon us.
I don't necessarily know if if

661
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,320
we're supposed to carry what
Remic says back to the church

662
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,480
where his dad has been
oppressive to him.

663
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,520
Because there's also like at the
beginning of the movie, the

664
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,800
smokestack twins are asking him,
is your dad still beating you

665
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,720
essentially?
And he's like, oh, no, no, no,

666
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:17,400
no.
And then they start telling the

667
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,040
story about how they killed
their dad.

668
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,840
And they say the exact same
thing that preacher boy said of

669
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,480
like, no, he only he only did it
rarely or if he if he meant to,

670
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,840
you know, So I don't know if
he's fleeing the oppressiveness

671
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,040
and restrictiveness of religion
because he just can't express

672
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,560
himself there.
I don't know if it's a rejection

673
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,720
of what he sees as like white
culture.

674
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,240
I don't know if it's just a
rejection of his father.

675
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,680
And again, that's like, you
could see that as a really

676
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,160
brilliant way of leaving the
metaphor unanswered, or you

677
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,160
could see it as kind of like
this script needs another pass

678
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,960
in the draft phase.
And I kind of fall a little bit

679
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,840
more in that second camp.
Yeah.

680
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,880
Well, and I.
I would too because I like, I

681
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,160
also know that I've read the
Bible a lot and you know, when I

682
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,920
read Jesus in the disinherited,
I understand that the message

683
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,680
portrayed by the white preachers
was a evil misinterpretation for

684
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,920
gain of the white slave owners.
Like, yeah, they were using this

685
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,920
the Bible for their personal
gain.

686
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,880
That's not good.
And the black preachers

687
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,280
understood what was actually
going on in scripture, which was

688
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,960
saying like, if you are a human
being, you were made in the

689
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,720
image of God and if you were
made in the image of God, you

690
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,920
have incalculable value.
And so that I think that's the

691
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,560
part for me that I struggle with
this movie where I'm like, to me

692
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,960
it feels more like an anti
Christian, like Christianity has

693
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,720
subsumed all these things and is
now trying to subsume black

694
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,960
culture.
And I'm like, I don't know if

695
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,680
that reflects historical reality
the way Coogler thinks it might

696
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,040
have.
And, and once again, this is me

697
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,440
in my opinion, but I, I, I, I
don't know.

698
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:08,800
I don't want to just let me
categorize.

699
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,480
It as my opinion.
Before we go to break.

700
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,920
I think that the theology of
this movie is the weakest link

701
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,160
of it or the weakest element of
it because, you know, the movie

702
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,880
is called sinners.
And I've been trying to figure

703
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,880
out like, why, why are we
calling this movie sinners,

704
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,880
Right.
And you get Delroy Lindo at at

705
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,040
one point saying like, hey, for
a Sinner like me, that's that's

706
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,160
more than enough, right?
It's it's established that all

707
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,200
these people are sinners.
At the beginning of the movie,

708
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,320
you have preacher boy's dad as
he's leaving the church, tell

709
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,040
him like, hey, if you keep
dancing with the devil at one

710
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,880
day, he's gonna come find you.
Basically.

711
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,040
Yeah.
And it's understood that the the

712
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,800
places where you would have to
go to play Blues music are

713
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,680
places of sin.
Simultaneous to that.

714
00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:00,480
It is the place where they are
allowed to have their freest

715
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,080
expression of themselves, to not
be under the thumb of somebody

716
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,440
working in the sun all day, to
dance, to have fun.

717
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,800
So there is this element of like
to go in the backroom.

718
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,320
And get a little Mickey.
I'll, I'll get back to that.

719
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,480
There's this element of like
actual pure release and goodness

720
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,600
there, but preacher boy's dad's
not entirely wrong.

721
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:26,000
Like on his very first night in
a Juke joint, preacher boy's

722
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,880
like, I'm going to have sex with
a married woman.

723
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,000
Like everyone's having sex with
everybody in here.

724
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,120
There's a.
Load of dice and then slashing

725
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,040
somebody there's.
Gambling, there's violence,

726
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,240
there's murder, there's like all
of these things are actually

727
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:43,160
happening.
And so there is an element where

728
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,400
his his rejection at the end of
the movie, where his dad is

729
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:52,280
like, leave this behind you, you
have seen what this brings upon

730
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,000
you come back to God and his
rejection of that.

731
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,640
What is the point that we're
ultimately trying to make?

732
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,560
Is it that like people need to
be allowed to be sinners?

733
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,080
Is it that sin is OK?
Like, and I'm just, I'm not even

734
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,360
talking about the the central
metaphor of race anymore.

735
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,160
I'm talking about like
theologically.

736
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,560
And I think that this this movie
kind of butts up against

737
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,840
theology and the black
experience of, of church in

738
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:26,040
America, but it doesn't actually
grapple with the issues of what

739
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,280
is sin?
Is sin part of this white

740
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,760
monolithic system of
Christianity?

741
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,320
And we actually reject the
notion of sin because I've shown

742
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,800
now that the music channels my
ancestors and all the things

743
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,080
that come with the music, like
the sex and everything else, is

744
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,160
actually good because it's a
pure expression of how I really

745
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,280
feel.
Maybe that is the argument he's

746
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,440
trying to make.
I don't want to foist that upon

747
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,080
the movie if it's not what he's
trying to say.

748
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,960
But what I'm ultimately saying
is like, it's too muddied of a

749
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,520
metaphor for me to understand
what we're actually arguing here

750
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,520
at the end of the day.
Yeah.

751
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:05,800
The.
The waters.

752
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,120
Are so muddled and muddy that I
I don't quite know what's

753
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:15,440
happening and then you add on
the coda to the movie, which

754
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,000
completely like they they sit
down together and they just have

755
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,200
a drink and they're like, yeah,
that was the night we were all

756
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,000
the most alive is the night
that, you know, sorry.

757
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,040
At the very end of the film,
after some of the credits have

758
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:34,040
rolled, you.
Go back to. 1992 or 3 and

759
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,680
Preacher Boy is in his 90s and
he's playing at A at a jazz

760
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,480
joint in Chicago and a, a
barkeep come there, a bouncer

761
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,840
comes to him and says, hey, I
know we're closed, but these two

762
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,800
people said they'll give us 400
bucks if they can let us in.

763
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,280
And he goes, yeah, let them in.
And then he goes, I I just

764
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,200
invited vampires in.
And sure enough, Michael B

765
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,760
Jordan and Hailee Steinfeld come
in and they're like, yeah, we

766
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,400
promised we wouldn't, you know,
come after you.

767
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,680
And so now you're almost dead.
You want to join us?

768
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,160
But they they have this
conversation about like, that

769
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,160
was the night we were most
alive.

770
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:16,640
And it's like that's that's the
one night you were most alive.

771
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,000
It wasn't like, I think that's
the part that's hard for me is

772
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,200
like a night where you played
Blues music, you slept with a

773
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,000
married woman and you almost got
eaten by by vampires.

774
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,000
Like, yes, that is an
exhilarating evening, no doubt.

775
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,120
That sounds like a hell of a
time.

776
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:40,520
However, I feel like getting
married, having kids, watching

777
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,760
your kids get married, having
grandkids, like I feel like

778
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,320
there's other things that would
have happened in preacher boy's

779
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,400
life.
That would have been like.

780
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,160
Yeah, that was an exhilarating
night.

781
00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:58,320
These were more meaningful
nights of my life.

782
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,760
Contrary my friend, this.
Is this is the Rose Dawson

783
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,960
Titanic situation where that
woman died and she did not go to

784
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,280
be with her husband and
children.

785
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,120
She went to be with Leonardo
DiCaprio.

786
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,640
She's like, man, I remember.
That DI got from Leo.

787
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:14,600
That's.
Right.

788
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,200
And on that note, Brad, it's
time for us to drink some

789
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,400
whiskey.
What do you say we try this

790
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,320
Bardstown Bourbon Company
bottle?

791
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:29,880
The bond.
All.

792
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,720
Right today we.
Are checking out Bardstown

793
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:35,480
bourbon companies bottled in
bond bourbon now this was

794
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,160
actually released as part of a
series that they did a couple

795
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,400
years ago Brad and we we
actually reviewed that whole

796
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,880
series as Bardstown tried to
kind of expand the price ranges

797
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,480
of their various offerings and
so they've relabeled it now I

798
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,640
can't remember what that series
was called it was like not.

799
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,640
Origins Explore It was the.
Origin series, that's what it

800
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,840
was 'cause I was thinking Fusion
and Discovery.

801
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,760
But so anyway, Brad is showing
the bottle now.

802
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,560
They have rebranded and gotten
brand new labels, new fonts, new

803
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,240
label.
Like everything on the bottle is

804
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:12,880
completely different than it
used to.

805
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,240
You know what those labels are,
Bob?

806
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,200
They're double C thick.
Yeah, they are.

807
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,480
Thick labels, baby.
And because of that, they've

808
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,480
done away with the origin series
and they've just kind of started

809
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,440
offering this as their baseline
bottled and bond.

810
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,520
So what I'm saying ultimately is
I think we've reviewed this once

811
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,200
before, Brad, but it's now being
called a completely different

812
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,400
thing and I think we need to re
review it.

813
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,120
Now.
The stats on this are that this

814
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,600
is a six year bourbon that was
produced by I I don't even want

815
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,920
to say produced.
It was distilled and produced by

816
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,080
Bardstown Bourbon Company.
The mash bill on this is, is

817
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,880
that like directed and?
Is that like directed and

818
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,040
written by?
Well, do you?

819
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,960
Remember.
Why don't we enlighten the

820
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,400
people when it says that
something is produced by, It

821
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,640
means that they did not distill
it.

822
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,320
Yeah, it means that it's sourced
bourbon.

823
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,880
So I, I want to be very
specific.

824
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,520
I don't want to get a letter
from Bardstown Bourbon Company.

825
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:11,000
68% corn, 20% wheat, 12% malted
barley.

826
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,560
So it is a weeded bottled and
bond bourbon.

827
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,120
I'm excited to dive into this.
I will say just before we dive

828
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,880
in, I should make note some very
concerning news about Bardstown

829
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,760
Bourbon Company came out in the
past week or so, the timing of

830
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,400
which is not ideal for this
review.

831
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,560
You know we know a lot of people
down at Bardstown.

832
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,080
I have no idea what goes on
behind the scenes at any company

833
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:38,680
that we review.
We will see what plays out with

834
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,080
this news story.
But I felt like, Brad, we should

835
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,320
at least acknowledge the fact
that they are probably the

836
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,000
biggest news story in the world
of whiskey this week, and not

837
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,440
for good reasons.
So we're approaching this

838
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,440
review, like I said, not at an
ideal time, Brad.

839
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,960
Yeah, and I, I.
Will say our experience has

840
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,160
primarily been with Dan Callaway
like.

841
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,200
We we have.
Had such great experiences with

842
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,080
him.
Bardstown has always treated us

843
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,480
well.
We don't know everything that.

844
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,480
Happened.
We're not there 24/7.

845
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,360
We are going to drink their
whiskey.

846
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,880
It feels, it feels kind of like
a Kevin Spacey situation, Bob.

847
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,760
It's like I'm I'm I've got to
watch American Beauty.

848
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,560
I'm not going to condone who
Kevin Spacey is, right?

849
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,560
I mean.
Listen, our job here is to

850
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,200
review some whiskey.
This is whiskey on shelves that

851
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,600
people can buy.
And I'm here to tell you whether

852
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,680
or not that whiskey is good.
I am not here to endorse or to

853
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:40,760
defend or to convict anybody.
There's a legal situation

854
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,000
playing out that's going to play
out completely outside the

855
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,240
bounds of this podcast.
Brad, let's dive into the review

856
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:49,360
of the whiskey itself have.
You tried this already?

857
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,360
'Cause I'm trying it live, I
have.

858
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,800
Tried it and I don't know if it
says anything to you Bob, but

859
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,440
I'm still drinking it live.
I really like the nose on this.

860
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,840
Brad, it this is much more of a
classic weeded bourbon nose.

861
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,600
You know, the Green River weeded
that we had last week.

862
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:05,600
I don't.
Actually know if that was.

863
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,400
Distilled on site at Green River
or if it would have been

864
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,960
distilled at Bardstown.
But you can tell that like even

865
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,000
though these are sister
companies making weeded bourbon

866
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,040
together, this just has a much
more classic well-rounded.

867
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,280
I get a lot more like caramel
corn on this.

868
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,280
The corn is really prominent,
but in a really nice way.

869
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,440
I think we're on to a good start
here.

870
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,800
Yeah, 100% dude.
I'm going to give it a 7.5 on

871
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,520
the nose.
Dude, I'm at a. 7.5 I actually

872
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,960
weirdly don't think this is a
very weeded experience 'cause I

873
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,600
don't get any cherry.
For me this is like cornflakes,

874
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,880
corn pops, vanilla, caramel, a
little bit of brown sugar on the

875
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,320
nose.
It's a 7.5, but like a 7.5 with

876
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,480
a promise for more.
I think when I get into the

877
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:58,200
pallets, there is caramel,
there's brown sugar.

878
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,240
It reminds me of like a salted
butter.

879
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:03,720
It's got like a little bit of a
salt, a little bit of a

880
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:08,720
fattiness to it.
And then the the more I drink of

881
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:12,440
it, the more it reminded me of
like there's no specific fruit I

882
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,520
can think of, but it's almost
like a sugary Fruity pebbles

883
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:20,440
kind of experience.
I like this isn't transcendent,

884
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,400
but it's a really good fun
experience that I give an 8 out

885
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,000
of 10 to on the palate, I think
I'm.

886
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,240
Going to stick of A7. .5 on the
palate it's a lot spicier and

887
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,800
more prickly and more alcohol
forward than I was expecting, so

888
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,160
nothing that I just.
Said no, I really like it it.

889
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,080
Attacked my tongue like it's,
yeah, very prickly on the

890
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,560
palate.
I got a lot of green apple on

891
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,840
the very front of the palate and
I did, I got some of those kind

892
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,800
of like generically sweet notes
throughout the pallet towards

893
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,040
the back.
It gets a little bit bitter and,

894
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:55,760
and I don't even want to say
herbal.

895
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,600
It's not quite herbal as much as
it's just kind of like a sour

896
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,280
wood note towards the back for
me.

897
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,600
We've been getting this a lot
lately, Brad.

898
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:07,720
I don't know what it is about
these kind of like 5 to 7 year

899
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:11,040
bourbons that we've been getting
the last year or two where they

900
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,720
all have this note of like that
toasted barrel finish in ways

901
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:18,920
that stuff we drank 4-5 years
ago just didn't have those

902
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,600
notes.
It seems like I.

903
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,880
Don't know, maybe it's.
Just my, my taste buds are

904
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,560
changing, but it seems like the
stuff that was in that five to

905
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,200
seven-year range a couple years
ago was much more like syrupy

906
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,360
and viscous and decadent than
what we're getting out of a lot

907
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,600
of these distilleries now.
This is still good, but I'm

908
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:42,720
going to give it a 7.5 and then
on the finish, I'll give it a 7.

909
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,240
I'll give it a 7.5 again, like
it's, it's fine.

910
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:49,240
It is very pleasant.
It's not super long lasting, but

911
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:51,960
I do get a nice like chest hug
on the way down.

912
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:54,160
I'm curious to hear what you
think of the finish, Brad.

913
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,320
Let me guess.
Here your balance score, Bob.

914
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:03,800
Is it going to be a 7.5?
I actually.

915
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,760
Think the finish is where this
shines.

916
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,480
Like 7.5 at the at the start, 8
for the taste.

917
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,480
I think this is an 8.5 on the
finish for me.

918
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,760
The salted butter fattiness
comes through really strong at

919
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,040
the end.
The brown sugar sticks around

920
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,120
and it leaves a really nice
vanilla flavor that lasts a long

921
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,240
time for me.
You said that like.

922
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,120
We have been getting this bitter
note on five to seven.

923
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,720
That has been true on other
ones.

924
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:36,760
Not on this one.
For me, I I really like this

925
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,280
experience a lot.
I think I'll go ahead and get my

926
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,160
balance score.
I think this is an 8 out of 10

927
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,440
on balance, like I think it's
very straightforward.

928
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:49,400
It is very bourbon, you know,
neutral like it's it's just a

929
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,160
bourbon.
It does all the flavors really

930
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,080
well.
It gives a little bit of

931
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,480
complexity, but not much.
It's a really nice bottled and

932
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,760
bought experience that, you
know, for a six year bourbon.

933
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,040
I'm I'm enjoying.
All right, I'll, I'll give.

934
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,640
It an 8 out of 10 on balance.
Just to throw you off, I.

935
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,240
Should give it a 7 point. 5 just
to spite me.

936
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,240
Feel a little spicy here?
And that takes us to value.

937
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:18,120
Now Brad, what would a bottle of
this cost?

938
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,280
Actually, I don't even know.
Are they carrying this in Ohio

939
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:21,960
yet?
So I.

940
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:28,000
I'm finding like the old labeled
version of bottle and bond.

941
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,480
I'm assuming that the price is
staying the same.

942
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:37,000
If that's the case, this is a
$50 MSRP which I think you know

943
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,680
to jump into my value score.
I think that's a really good

944
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,520
price for AI.
Don't.

945
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,120
Know if I want to call?
Bardstown, a luxury company, but

946
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,360
a lot of their whiskey kind of
falls in that upper tier

947
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,760
whiskey.
So for them to offer something

948
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,320
like this at $50, that's a
really good bottled and bond

949
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:05,640
price that I would say offers a
really beautiful experience of a

950
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,240
classic bourbon.
So I like, I'm actually going to

951
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:13,200
give this a nine out of 10, I
think $50.00 for a Bardstown

952
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,080
product that is giving you a
really good bourbon experience

953
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,560
at the bottled and bond
regulated level.

954
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,600
I think that's a really good
value, Bob.

955
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,640
I agree.
And like it's listed on their

956
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,360
website right now and it's still
at 4999.

957
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,000
They are ironically using the
old label on the website, so it

958
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,080
is kind of confusing.
Listen, for 50 bucks, I'm kind

959
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,920
of right where I was with the
Green River.

960
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,520
I think this is better than the
Green River.

961
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,840
I like this a little bit more.
I like this a lot.

962
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:43,600
Put it up.
Against.

963
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:48,760
Like a a wild Turkey rare breed,
like that's just 10 times better

964
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,400
than this for me at a similar
price.

965
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,240
So I'm just going to give it a 7
out of 10 on the value and that

966
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:59,920
takes me to a 37.5 out of 50.
Brad, where you falling on this

967
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,480
one?
I'm at a 40.

968
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,200
One out of fifty.
Wow, yeah, I want.

969
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,160
I really like.
This I I think that.

970
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,040
Even though it's a.
Weeded bourbon and I I might

971
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,800
want to experience more cherry
notes out of this.

972
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,080
I think that this is a.
Really great classic bourbon

973
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,080
experience that reminds me of
like a Woodford Double Oaked.

974
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,800
Like Woodford Double Oak is a
little more of a butter bomb,

975
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,400
but it feels similar in that
like it's a classic bourbon

976
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,480
experience notched up a few
points and I, I, I really like

977
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,480
this one a lot.
All right, that's taking us to.

978
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,920
A 78.5 out of 100 or a 39.25 out
of 50.

979
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,960
So just shy of that 40 mark, I'm
going to give it a hesitant

980
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:49,600
thumbs up.
It sounds like Brad is pretty

981
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,400
solidly in thumbs up territory
here.

982
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,840
I am 100.
Percent in thumbs up territory

983
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:59,360
if you know you like bourbon and
you you enjoy a slightly less

984
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,600
spicy experience.
I I'm thinking of like my one

985
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,680
buddy Jim who like if.
It was a one.

986
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,000
Percent rye.
He could taste the rye and he

987
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,560
would hate it.
If you're Jim, you would like

988
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,080
this experience.
I'm I'm going to give him some

989
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:16,920
of it all.
Right.

990
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,520
Well, Jim?
Enjoy the whiskey from Brad.

991
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,760
I think it's time for us to get
back into talking about sinners.

992
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,600
What do you say?
Let's get?

993
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:33,800
To it All right everybody that
was Bardstown bottled and bond

994
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,200
and I will say Bob, I feel like
normally with Bardstown it's

995
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:43,360
like a it's like an 8 word
sentence like that's all it is

996
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,800
it's just Bardstown bottled and
bond and I props to them man.

997
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,920
I think they're continuing their
legacy of making great whiskeys,

998
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,360
whether or not, and this is the
big question all the time, can a

999
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,920
distillery that sources their
whiskey for a while and makes a

1000
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,640
name for themself continue the
quality of the product once they

1001
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,400
make their own stuff?
Brad Sounds doing it.

1002
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:13,000
They're they're nailing it.
The end.

1003
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,520
All right man, it's time for me
to try to finally redeem myself

1004
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:22,080
this season with our game, which
we call 2 facts and a falsehood.

1005
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,680
Brad is going to try to stump
you.

1006
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,120
Ball 2.
You are right and what is wrong?

1007
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,400
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 facts
and a falsehood.

1008
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,160
Is the part of the show where
Brad presents me with three

1009
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:40,720
items as fact about the making
of this movie, one of which is a

1010
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,640
complete lie.
Now, Brad, I'm going to be

1011
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,600
honest with you.
I said I was going to tally up

1012
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,080
how I was doing this season.
I did not do that, nor do I care

1013
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,280
to.
I'm going to assume that I am

1014
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,680
one win away from a winning
season and I'm going to secure

1015
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,720
it today.
Hey, that's that's the.

1016
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,080
Every every week is a new season
kind of vibe from the head coach

1017
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,760
of the Cleveland Browns.
I was just going to say.

1018
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,240
That's a very Cleveland Browns
coded message.

1019
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,720
You know Bob, I'll.
I'll do this for you as a gift,

1020
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,080
a gift to you.
I will go back and listen to

1021
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,680
every episode from the season
and just skip to the 2 facts and

1022
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,520
a falsehood and I will tally the
wins and losses for you so you

1023
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,840
don't have to lose yourself
losing week after week.

1024
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:28,800
Thank you SO.
Much, Brad.

1025
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,560
Now I'm going to continue
thinking that this is for a

1026
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,760
winning season.
Here, hit me with those two

1027
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,200
facts and a falsehood fact
number.

1028
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:41,080
One director, Ryan Coogler, says
that he had the American heavy

1029
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,040
metal band Metallica on his mind
when he was laying out the

1030
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,240
stories, rhythm and beats.
Quote.

1031
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,120
I wanted the movie to have the
simplicity and simultaneously

1032
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,880
the profound nature of a delta
Blues song, but I wanted it to

1033
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:59,560
have the contrast, variation and
inevitability of great Metallica

1034
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:04,800
song like 1, he says.
Fact #2.

1035
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,880
Director Ryan Coogler decided to
shoot the film in 65mm IMAX

1036
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,640
after watching Oppenheimer in
theaters a year earlier, citing

1037
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,640
the crispness of the movement as
a primary motivating factor.

1038
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,840
Fact #3.
Director Ryan Coogler revealed

1039
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,240
that the film was inspired by
his late uncle James, who lived

1040
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,320
in Mississippi, where the film
was set during the 1930s.

1041
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,160
His uncle died while he was
making Creed in 2015, leaving

1042
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,080
him with several memories of his
Mississippi upbringing that

1043
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:42,000
helped him craft the story,
including his Uncle James love

1044
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:46,400
for the type of Blues Blues
music that featured prominently

1045
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:55,440
in the film.
Man I don't know #1 sounds the

1046
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,520
most.
I almost say the most plausible.

1047
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,440
I think #1 sounds true.
Two and three.

1048
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,760
I think I could just kind of,
they're kind of a coin flip.

1049
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,760
Right now I am.
Targeting #3 Just because of the

1050
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,960
ages of everybody.
I know you said great uncle and

1051
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,440
not just uncle, but I'm going to
say number, I said late.

1052
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,120
Late Uncle.
Oh, that's even worse.

1053
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,720
Then how old was this Uncle?
I'm going to say 3 is the

1054
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,000
falsehood, Brad.
And I have really no basis for

1055
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,840
that other than I just think
that the 1930s were a longer

1056
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,560
time ago than you and I think
sometimes.

1057
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,040
So I'm going to say.
Almost almost 100 years ago,

1058
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:37,920
Bob.
Almost, man.

1059
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,360
Literally Haley and I the.
Other day were talking about

1060
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:44,280
like if we wanted to move into
our forever home, like when

1061
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,520
would it be financially feasible
and I I said to her probably in

1062
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:53,000
the 30s.
Which is a crazy.

1063
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:58,680
Statement to make Long story
short, Bob, if this was your one

1064
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,360
chance at accomplishing a
winning season, then you have

1065
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,680
guaranteed yourself a losing
season.

1066
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:13,520
What was it #2 Was the falsehood
all right?

1067
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,040
Man, man, how old was this
uncle?

1068
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:17,960
I can't get over how old this
guy's uncle was.

1069
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,800
Yeah, he he.
Literally said quote, he was for

1070
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,920
a long time the oldest man in
our family.

1071
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:25,200
Maybe that would have helped
you.

1072
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,560
And he lived in close proximity
to me and we listen to the Blues

1073
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,080
all the time.
Well, there you go.

1074
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,280
Sounds like a pretty good
influence, honestly.

1075
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,920
Yeah, I listen.
To the Blues, man, I'm I'm

1076
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,920
totally in.
All right, man, you know we have

1077
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,200
not.
Talked about the cast of this

1078
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:44,760
movie at all, which is crazy.
I feel like we the last couple

1079
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,280
weeks we've gotten all of our
discussion on the thematic

1080
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,120
elements of the movie out of the
way in the first half, and then

1081
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,040
we're like, Oh yeah, people
acted in this.

1082
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,360
People acted in this.
There are a number of.

1083
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,760
Oscar nominees to come out of
this cast.

1084
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,720
So, you know, I I guess let's
start at the top with Michael B

1085
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,960
Jordan, who plays two roles in
this Smoke and Stack the twins.

1086
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,320
Originally, one of them was
going to be played by the actor

1087
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:13,040
Jonathan Majors, but then he had
a big controversy happened and

1088
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,360
they were like, absolutely not.
So then Michael B Jordan was

1089
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,920
like, I'll play both characters,
and he secures himself a Best

1090
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,080
actor nomination for this film.
So it's supposed to.

1091
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,160
Michael be Jordans or I'm sorry.
So it's supposed to be like

1092
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,600
fraternal twins?
Yeah.

1093
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,920
I don't know, I maybe the script
was exactly the same and you

1094
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,800
know how they at the beginning,
the one guy's like, are you guys

1095
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:35,840
twins?
And he's like, Nah, we're

1096
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,800
cousins and it's kind of a joke.
Maybe they actually were just

1097
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,360
cousins in the original script.
I don't I don't know how it was

1098
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:46,120
going to go, but so Michael B
Jordan, best actor nomination.

1099
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,480
He's an actor that we've talked
about before on the podcast that

1100
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:54,880
I've always struggled with
because he he has the movie star

1101
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,520
charisma and persona and the
ability to like hold your

1102
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:03,520
attention on screen.
And yet I just think that like

1103
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:05,520
50.
Percent of the.

1104
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,160
Time his line deliveries need
another pass.

1105
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,040
Like he's just not a good
deliverer of dialogue.

1106
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,600
And I don't want to say.
That he's a bad actor 'cause I

1107
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,120
don't think that like,
especially towards the end of

1108
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,040
the movie, you know, again,
we're in full spoiler territory

1109
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,560
When Smoke is dying at the end
of the movie.

1110
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,480
And like the look on his face as
he's looking to like the souls

1111
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,640
of his wife and child and then
getting snapped back to reality

1112
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,640
with the the clan guy.
When Michael B Jordan can do

1113
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,800
wordless acting, he's fantastic.
And then there's just like so

1114
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,160
many lines of dialogue in this
movie where I'm like, dude,

1115
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,040
that, that wasn't convincing at
all.

1116
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:44,480
Does that mean I don't know?
Am I alone?

1117
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,000
It does, No.
I.

1118
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,160
Don't think you're alone.
I will say I you know, I talked

1119
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:55,760
a little bit earlier about my
critiques of the technical sides

1120
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,360
of this movie.
I also don't think that the

1121
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,760
script is great.
Yeah.

1122
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,040
We talked about the.
Script being muddied in terms of

1123
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:04,320
the messaging it's trying to
make.

1124
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,320
I also think the dialogue's not
great in this movie.

1125
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,280
It's not bad I.
I think that.

1126
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,400
There's a little a few extra
passes that Coogler could have

1127
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:20,440
taken in the editing room of the
script, but then you hand it to

1128
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,080
somebody like Michael B Jordan,
who plays it earnestly.

1129
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,160
He I, I think the problem with
Michael B Jordan is that he is

1130
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,840
very, I don't want to use the
words one note, but like he kind

1131
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,240
of delivers every line in a
similar manner of like

1132
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:41,920
earnestness and like, it's
always almost like he's like

1133
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,320
leaning forward and about to
fall forward every time he

1134
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,800
delivers a line.
And, and that's great.

1135
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:53,040
And it makes for a very movement
oriented film, which this is.

1136
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,920
So I like it works.
It's interesting, but there's

1137
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,240
not a lot of variance, There's
not a lot of depth.

1138
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:05,160
When you need somebody, just sit
in the moment rather than like

1139
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,520
leaning forward into the next
thing.

1140
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,680
It's it's not perfect.
Like if I had to give a score to

1141
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,360
Michael B Jordan, I'd give it
like an 8 out of 10.

1142
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:19,120
Like like really good, just not
perfect I mean.

1143
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,000
I I don't hate that he got an
Oscar nomination for this.

1144
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,320
I wish that he'd gotten it years
and years ago for Fruitvale

1145
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,160
Station, but like, he's playing
two roles here.

1146
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,160
It's hard to do.
Like I and, and to his credit,

1147
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,280
you know, in the beginning of
the movie, they both have

1148
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,440
different colored hats on.
And it's like that's how you can

1149
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,880
tell who's who.
And by the time at the end, you

1150
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:38,600
know, I guess by the end of the
movie, he wants a vampire.

1151
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:39,880
So you can kind of tell that
too.

1152
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,240
He's got like the orange.
Eyes right, but even like as.

1153
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,800
They kind of like just get down
into like their tank tops and

1154
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:48,800
stuff.
His ability to kind of carry

1155
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,800
each character physically in
different ways.

1156
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,440
I'm sorry they they.
Definitely, like, wear less

1157
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,520
clothes as the movie goes on.
Maybe that's the sexy part you

1158
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,720
were talking about earlier.
That's that's it, yeah.

1159
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,200
Exactly.
But he is able to distinguish

1160
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,840
just in the body language of the
characters of the, the demeanor

1161
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,920
and the way that the dialogue is
delivered in terms of like the

1162
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,440
pep that Stack has versus like
the kind of somber quality that

1163
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,160
Smoke has.
I do think it's a good

1164
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:19,920
performance and I think that
like frankly, though, he is kind

1165
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,000
of outshined by quite a few
people in this movie.

1166
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,840
I I will mention Hailee
Steinfeld here as Stax

1167
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,960
ex-girlfriend Mary, who's like,
I had no idea that Hailee

1168
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:35,480
Steinfeld had that in her, but
like, can we just say hot damn

1169
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,080
like she was?
She was going.

1170
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:39,640
For it, man.
She's great, man.

1171
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:42,840
I also she's fantastic.
This is another issue with the

1172
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,440
script where I'm like like did
you have to put it in there that

1173
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:52,680
she's like 1/8 black?
Like they like they very clearly

1174
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,880
like, well I guess we have to
let her in because her, her

1175
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:03,600
mom's dad's cousins, uncles
college roommate was also black.

1176
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:06,360
Man.
What'd you think of the

1177
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,280
performance?
Though I really enjoyed.

1178
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:13,960
Hailee Steinfeld I I think she
does a great job of drawing

1179
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,640
Michael B Jordan forward.
And then once she becomes a

1180
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,840
vampire, she's like, all in,
like, like you can tell as an

1181
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:25,640
actress, she's like, I get to
just choose scenery and be wild

1182
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,520
and ridiculous.
And, you know, you don't see

1183
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,680
much of her once she becomes a
vampire, but she is all in the

1184
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,200
entire time.
All right, Wunmi, I'm sorry.

1185
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:39,600
Wunmi Mosaku, I hope I'm saying
that right Is is Annie Smokes

1186
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:44,840
estranged wife and I think pound
for pound, maybe the best actor

1187
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:46,800
in this movie and that's kind of
saying something.

1188
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:50,480
But like I found her performance
like incredibly moving.

1189
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,080
I thought that she was the most
believable person in this

1190
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,400
environment.
Maybe her and Delroy Lindo

1191
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:02,560
together, but like they gave her
the most kind of grieving sort

1192
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,200
of back story.
She seemed like she had the most

1193
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,600
depth as a character.
She has that sort of like world

1194
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,600
weariness and wisdom tied up in
her physical performance here.

1195
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,960
I I don't know, man, if I had to
say like, who did I think gave

1196
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:17,399
the best performance in the
whole movie?

1197
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:19,279
I think it would be her.
Yeah.

1198
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,000
And she also.
Nails like that.

1199
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:26,800
I haven't gotten laid in like 12
years since this guy left town.

1200
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,960
So let's get it on.
Let's do it right now.

1201
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,479
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, I think.

1202
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,319
That the key for her comes in
the fact that she is the

1203
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:40,399
narrator of the film and also a
character in the film.

1204
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,279
And so you kind of get the
emotional heft that when she

1205
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:48,520
talks, it carries weight because
whoever chose to told this story

1206
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:53,760
chose to prioritize her voice.
And so like that, that

1207
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,800
advantages her as an actress.
And she gives a great

1208
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:05,680
performance, like her hesitance
and her ability to like control

1209
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,960
each situation that they're in
is just really great.

1210
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:12,040
I do think that once again, the
scripts kind of handicaps her a

1211
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,080
little bit.
And like they give her a very

1212
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:22,120
classic like if capital I, if I
turn into a vampire, make sure

1213
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:27,080
you kill me before it happens.
And it's like she has these very

1214
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,080
cheesy lines to deliver.
She does a great job with it.

1215
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:33,399
Script does not do her any
favors there.

1216
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:37,680
Now I want to talk about Delroy.
Lindo as Delta Slim because I

1217
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:41,080
think he has kind of the
meatiest, well, we'll get to 1

1218
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:45,800
other performance, but like he
has a great like I'm the Comic

1219
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,560
Relief of this movie and I'm
also kind of like what gives

1220
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,120
this movie some heft along with
Wumi Musaku.

1221
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:58,200
But like, first of all, Delroy
Lindo is a is a guy that's been

1222
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:02,640
working in Hollywood for decades
and is beloved in Hollywood.

1223
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:05,720
He did a movie a couple years
ago with Spike Lee called The

1224
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,000
Five Bloods where people were
saying he is going to win best

1225
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,040
actor for this movie.
And frankly, I think he should

1226
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:12,320
have.
Then he didn't even get

1227
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,920
nominated.
It was like a huge Oscar snub.

1228
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:18,920
And so he finally gets his first
Oscar nomination for Sinners.

1229
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:21,920
I think he might like, I think
he might win.

1230
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,080
It's between him and Benicio, I
think for for best supporting

1231
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,920
actor this year.
And I man, I just think he's

1232
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,920
fantastic.
Like the, the laugh lines work

1233
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:33,800
really well.
He's super funny.

1234
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:38,320
He's also like really, really
earnest in the way that he tells

1235
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,520
about his own struggles
throughout the movie.

1236
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,560
I thought he was like adding him
to the cast made the movie 5

1237
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,640
times better for me.
Yeah.

1238
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:52,200
I will say I think he he starts
really strong and like falls off

1239
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:58,320
at the end when he challenges
preacher boy and is like, don't

1240
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,680
you dare play that guitar.
This isn't my spot.

1241
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:06,480
Like you feel that sense of
angst and like generational

1242
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:11,400
weight hanging on his shoulders.
And then at the end of the film,

1243
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,160
he's like cutting his own arm
and he's like, hey, here, here,

1244
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,560
come, come here, vampires, you
come get me all like, almost

1245
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:21,040
like a zombie film.
Like, like you can't control

1246
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,600
your lusts and things if you
smell blood.

1247
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:27,680
Like I it just felt like a
lacklustre end to a really

1248
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,920
interesting character.
I'm with you, though, that

1249
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,520
overall, throughout the course
of the film, he does a really

1250
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:39,560
great job of playing the black
cynic to be like, yeah, I've.

1251
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:44,320
I've seen black people try to
claim thing as their own before.

1252
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,240
Sometimes it works, sometimes it
doesn't.

1253
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,040
I guess I'll join you for this
ride.

1254
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,880
Like like he has kind of that
world weary sense that I I

1255
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:53,800
really enjoyed a lot.
All right, I guess the last

1256
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,720
person we should.
Talk about is Jack O'Connell,

1257
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,320
who plays Remic the the lead
vampire.

1258
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,240
I love Jack O'Connell.
He is an Irish actor.

1259
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,440
He's been working for, you know,
a decade plus now.

1260
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,480
He made a really great movie The
10:00-ish years ago called 71,

1261
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:10,520
which is about the troubles in
Ireland.

1262
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:12,080
And it's really, really, really
good.

1263
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:17,000
I here's the thing, He does
exactly what he's supposed to

1264
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,920
do.
Is that accent believable at

1265
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,680
all?
No, but then like at the end of

1266
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,240
the movie, he drops the accent
and he's speaking with an Irish

1267
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:25,480
accent.
So I think that kind of

1268
01:12:25,480 --> 01:12:27,840
indicates this guy's been faking
it the whole time.

1269
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:32,760
Anyway, he is super hammy when
he shows up in the doorway with

1270
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:37,160
his long fingers and just pops
up and goes, Sammy, I want that

1271
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,360
clip.
I want a sound bite of that clip

1272
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:42,240
to just play at random times on
our podcast from here on out.

1273
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,600
It's incredible.
It's so good.

1274
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:49,240
Like it's exactly what you need
in a cheesy horror movie, Brad.

1275
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:57,080
I, my struggle with him is once
again script based like, like,

1276
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,360
who is he?
What is he trying to do?

1277
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,840
Like is he just a vampire?
Is he the, the script is so

1278
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,040
muddied on him.
The performance itself follows

1279
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:08,000
the script.
And so there's moments where

1280
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,960
he's highly charismatic and
highly interesting.

1281
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,760
And then there's moments where
you're like, what the heck is

1282
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,160
going on with this guy?
And I, I'm here for it.

1283
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:19,480
It's a wild ride.
It's fun, it's interesting.

1284
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:22,200
I don't know if I love it, but
it's fun.

1285
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:24,960
And so I I'm, I'm with you on on
him.

1286
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,400
I, I think it's funny that you
want to end with him and not the

1287
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:33,280
introducing Miles Katyn that
like, you know, we haven't

1288
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,680
talked about the main
protagonist of the movie at all.

1289
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:38,400
I mean, listen, he's.
Fantastic.

1290
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:40,880
And you know, he sings all of
his own songs.

1291
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:42,880
He's got an incredible singing
voice.

1292
01:13:43,480 --> 01:13:47,200
He also has like a very thick
accent and kind of sounds like

1293
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:48,760
he has marbles in his mouth a
little bit.

1294
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,120
So like this was definitely this
was this was a movie where it's

1295
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:54,360
like people are speaking in
English and I'm going to watch

1296
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,680
this movie with subtitles
because we are being authentic

1297
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,360
to the fact that there's like
real accents going on here.

1298
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:03,080
And, and if you've ever heard
Ryan Coogler talk, like he has a

1299
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,080
very thick accent and he kind of
speaks in a in a more muddled

1300
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,120
way.
So that even further for me was

1301
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:10,960
like, oh, this character is Ryan
Coogler.

1302
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:13,040
I think he's really, really
good.

1303
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,600
I also think that there are
times in the acting performance

1304
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:19,320
where you can tell this is like
this is his first movie 100%.

1305
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,360
And I like, I like Miles Caton.
He does a really good job.

1306
01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:29,760
There's a level of facial acting
that he just has no experience

1307
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,760
with.
And like his ability to control

1308
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:36,480
his eyebrows and his mouth as he
says things like there's just.

1309
01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:39,800
Certain.
Things that Denzel Washington

1310
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:43,600
and Brad Pitt and George Clooney
and, you know, all of these

1311
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,200
people can do that.
He's not quite there yet and

1312
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,360
that's totally fine.
It's his first movie.

1313
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,360
His singing voices beyond
incredible.

1314
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:58,360
I'll I'll be curious to see
like, you know, his agent and he

1315
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:00,280
whatever movies they decide on
next.

1316
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:02,520
How do they develop him as an
actor?

1317
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:06,120
That that's what I'm curious
about now, in terms of like.

1318
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:09,680
Pound for pound, minute for
minute, I want to call out real

1319
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:13,520
quick Omar Benson Miller, who
plays Cornbread, the bouncer

1320
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:15,640
that looks like Forest Whitaker
at the front.

1321
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:17,760
He's I was like.
Is that Forest Whitaker?

1322
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,640
I was like, he's too young to be
Forest Whitaker, but the whole

1323
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,520
time.
I like I felt so bad for his

1324
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:25,640
character because like he didn't
even want to go.

1325
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:27,400
His wife was like we need the
money.

1326
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,720
He was such a good husband to
stick up for his wife.

1327
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,200
He seemed like such a nice guy.
It's like you didn't deserve

1328
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,000
this fate dude and talk about
like this.

1329
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,080
Script throwing the wife under
the bus like, yeah, she's just a

1330
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,960
little bit money grubbing.
Like, you know, don't worry

1331
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:41,560
about it, quota, just go make
money.

1332
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,080
All right, man, we've talked.
About the cast, we've talked

1333
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,040
about Coogler as a director and
as a writer.

1334
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,400
I think we've said what we need
to say about sinners, and that

1335
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,400
means it's time for our last
segment of the day, which we

1336
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,560
call Let's Make it a Double.
We're near the end.

1337
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,560
Of the episodes of things
listening to the film and

1338
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,240
Whiskey show, let's pair another
film with this one.

1339
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:04,680
Even if it's struggling, it's
the final segment of the day.

1340
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,120
Now let's make it a double.
Let's make it a double.

1341
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:08,880
Is the.
Part of the show where we pick a

1342
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,160
movie to pair up with this one
to make the perfect double

1343
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:14,920
feature.
Brad, where are you coming out

1344
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:18,040
for a double feature on Sinners?
Or are you scrambling right now

1345
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,200
to try to find one?
I I'm scrambling.

1346
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:22,920
Right now I literally have not
given any thought.

1347
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:27,000
I don't know.
Well then, let me take 30

1348
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,040
seconds because I had one.
In my head earlier and I forgot

1349
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,600
what it was, so yeah, I didn't
write it down or anything.

1350
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,440
Yeah, man.
I all right.

1351
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,920
I'll go ahead and go first.
There's a movie from the 70s and

1352
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:43,880
also a remake from the mid 2000s
called Assault on Precinct 13,

1353
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,880
which is literally a movie about
like a bunch of violent

1354
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:52,800
criminals who lay siege to this
police precinct over the course

1355
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,960
of one night.
And so it's like a standoff

1356
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,880
movie where you're just like
defending the castle against the

1357
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,320
intruders.
And it reminded me so much of

1358
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:03,080
sinners.
I mean, obviously I think you

1359
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,440
could make a really kind of
cheap comparison to like From

1360
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:09,240
Dust Till Dawn that's all over
this movie as an influence.

1361
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:12,480
But like, yeah, in terms of
finding something that really

1362
01:17:12,480 --> 01:17:14,920
captured the like, we're in a
standoff here.

1363
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,320
I think Assault on Precinct 13
would be a fantastic movie to

1364
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,440
pair this with Man I Baba.
I'm really struggling.

1365
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:28,320
I I'm trying to focus on like
movies that contain A1 night

1366
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:32,960
stand.
I I think you know.

1367
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,960
What I'm going to go with?
This I, I think that as far as a

1368
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:40,760
film that has horror elements
but focuses more on the

1369
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:45,320
relationships of the characters
within the film and, you know,

1370
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:49,560
maybe a little bit of their
growth into being who they ought

1371
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,120
to be, I'm going to go.
With Shaun of the.

1372
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:53,880
Dead nice.
I like.

1373
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,760
I think that.
Zombies not sexy.

1374
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:57,880
Not.
We forgot to mention that

1375
01:17:57,880 --> 01:17:58,920
earlier.
Yeah, Yeah.

1376
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,680
So it definitely doesn't.
You know, it doesn't collaborate

1377
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,680
in that sense.
Not sexy in any way.

1378
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:08,720
But you get a lot of you get a
lot of great moments in Shaun of

1379
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:10,960
the Dead.
There's unexpectedly poignant

1380
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:14,600
moments like when Bill Nye is in
the car and you're like sobbing

1381
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,880
before he turns into a zombie.
Yeah.

1382
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:20,480
I think Shaun of the Dead and
Sinners would make for a really

1383
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:24,360
fun, interesting horror light
evening.

1384
01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:25,640
I will say before we get off
the.

1385
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:29,840
Topic I was also thinking about
Malcolm X as a let's make it a

1386
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,920
double just in the sense that
like we spend a lot of time

1387
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:36,800
talking about you know look at
us like we are very white men

1388
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:41,000
and so like approaching topics
of race like this it it can be

1389
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:44,560
hard to do I also think that
there are things in this movie

1390
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:51,480
that you know I texted you
earlier Brad I invite and

1391
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:56,240
welcome movies that challenge my
point of view and even paint me

1392
01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:00,320
or my chosen tribe or my
identity as the villain in a

1393
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:05,960
movie provided that that movie
makes a clear argument and that

1394
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,360
I can understand what the
movie's trying to say on its own

1395
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,800
terms and I.
Think that like.

1396
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:16,000
Malcolm X as a person is is a
person that I agree with the

1397
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:20,120
fight that he was fighting.
I obviously disagree with a lot

1398
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:23,880
of his philosophy, and that's
because I'm a Christian, right?

1399
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:27,880
Like Malcolm X was a Muslim.
I think that Spike Lee in

1400
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:32,640
Malcolm X does such a good job
of portraying who Malcolm X was

1401
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:35,200
as a person.
Why he believed the things he

1402
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:39,960
believed that even if you
disagree with those things is it

1403
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:45,200
is explicated so exceptionally
well that like you watch that

1404
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:49,280
movie and you can't help but be.
You know, on board with the.

1405
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,680
Film making of it all.
Also, it's just Spike Lee.

1406
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:54,640
It like his best as a director.
I think it's a perfect movie.

1407
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:58,400
And I think that that's my segue
into talking about my final

1408
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,120
score on this movie.
Because this movie has an

1409
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:04,320
opportunity, even working within
the genre of like a vampire

1410
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:08,320
movie, to tighten itself up just
a little bit in the arguments

1411
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:12,520
that it wants to make and to
kind of clarify and unmuddy

1412
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:14,400
those waters that it just
doesn't do.

1413
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,800
Yeah, this is a.
Movie that the craft.

1414
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,480
Of the movie is there and I can
see that there's care and effort

1415
01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:23,680
put in at like an A9 out of 10/8
and 1/2 out of 10 level The

1416
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:28,600
movie itself is like a fun 7.5
so I.

1417
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:32,440
Think I'm actually going?
To fall at a 7.5 out of 10 with

1418
01:20:32,440 --> 01:20:35,480
that little caveat that like
this is not just like a fun

1419
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:37,720
little comedy that was made for
$1,000,000.

1420
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:39,920
Like there's, there's real
genuine craft here.

1421
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:43,560
And and I think that the
travesty of it is that the

1422
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,560
script let's all of the rest of
it a little bit down.

1423
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,600
And if we had just tighten that
up a bit, this could be an 8 and

1424
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:51,520
a half 910 out of 10 movie for
me.

1425
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:56,680
Yeah, I I think this.
Has the chance to be that I'm,

1426
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,080
I'm with you.
I, I think this is a 7 1/2 out

1427
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,600
of 10.
There's, there's a struggle of

1428
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,080
like, we're so focused on the
messaging of the movie that some

1429
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:11,640
of the craft doesn't quite keep
up and the waters get so messed

1430
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:15,400
up and like, you don't quite
know what he's trying to say.

1431
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:20,240
And not like there's a
difference between a writer and

1432
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,920
director being ambiguous and
allowing the audience to make

1433
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:26,800
their own interpretation and
being sloppy.

1434
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:31,000
And I think Cooler kind of leans
towards sloppy on the messaging

1435
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,520
in this movie, which is like,
which is fine.

1436
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,760
And I think that's the the draw
to go back to the one battle

1437
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:42,000
after another versus sinners
comparison.

1438
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:49,240
I think for me, one battle after
another is so ham fisted and so

1439
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,960
straightforward that it makes it
a lesser film.

1440
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,520
And even though I don't think
Coogler gets the ambiguity super

1441
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,480
well in this, I think he also
just makes a really fun film.

1442
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:03,520
Like I, I walk away from this
movie going like, yeah, my fun

1443
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,000
quota is filled.
I don't know if my purpose or

1444
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:10,320
meaning quota is filled, but
like, I'm a little bit confused.

1445
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,400
And I had a good time.
Whereas 1 battle after another,

1446
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:15,600
I walked away going like, oh, I
know exactly what he's trying to

1447
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:17,800
say.
And if you're on one side of

1448
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:19,720
that, you don't like it.
And if you're on the other side

1449
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:23,320
of that, you'd love it.
And I I kind of like that less

1450
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,600
than what Coogler does here with
Sinners.

1451
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:29,480
So I'll give it a 7.5.
It's a fun movie.

1452
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:33,480
It's a sloppy movie.
Even some of the action scenes

1453
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:38,840
like I'm like like the vampires
are rushing into the building

1454
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:43,840
and slaughtering everyone and it
feels like they kill 8 people

1455
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:45,920
and there was only 6 in there to
start with.

1456
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:48,680
And yet there's still three
people who haven't been turned

1457
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:52,600
into zombies or vampires.
And I'm like, hold on, what's

1458
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,040
happening right now?
And then there's like a slow

1459
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,120
motion bit where he's like
stabbing Annie in the heart and

1460
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,880
all the vampires are like
backing out, but then they rush

1461
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,440
back in and yeah, I don't
understand that either.

1462
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:05,400
It it the logistics of it make
no sense.

1463
01:23:05,440 --> 01:23:08,520
The logistics make no.
Sense and I like I mostly don't

1464
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,960
care, but it it keeps it back
from being a perfect action

1465
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:15,080
vampire movie.
All that to say, it's a really

1466
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:18,160
fun movie.
I think it starts to explore

1467
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:23,040
some things that we ought to
explore as a society and I, I

1468
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,640
guess one last one battle after
another comparison.

1469
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:31,120
I don't mind.
The idea of like looking back on

1470
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:35,520
our history and saying like the
Jim Crow S was evil.

1471
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,960
I don't mind looking back and
saying like, yeah, this Klansman

1472
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:43,040
selling them the gristmill with
the plan to come and kill them

1473
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,000
in the morning.
Like I like.

1474
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,600
We ought to keep that in our
cultural consciousness to say

1475
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,280
like, yeah, those who forget the
past are doomed to repeat it.

1476
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,280
And in our past, we did really
crappy stuff.

1477
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,320
All that I'm.
Fine with it's the

1478
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:03,560
reinterpretation of the black
church in the South that I'm

1479
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:07,800
like, I don't know if that's
accurately representing history.

1480
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:13,680
And by misrepresenting history,
I think it's creating an

1481
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:18,040
unhealthy present reality.
And so I think it's stuff like

1482
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,560
that that like, it's hard to
purse out and say this piece of

1483
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:24,200
the movie was good and this
piece of the movie isn't

1484
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:26,600
helpful.
But I think we need to do that

1485
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:30,480
as a culture rather than just
having these simplistic, like

1486
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:33,760
you said earlier, Bob, these
simplistic white people, bad

1487
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:36,640
people of color, good movies.
Like, I don't know if those are

1488
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,040
helpful.
I think Coogler moves in the

1489
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,920
direction of having a complex
movie.

1490
01:24:42,480 --> 01:24:44,160
I don't know if he totally
accomplishes it.

1491
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:45,360
All right, Well, we'd like to
know what.

1492
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,400
You guys would think before I
get there.

1493
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,840
All right Brad, that leaves us
with a 7.5 average here, which

1494
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,200
is higher than our 7.25 on one
battle after another.

1495
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,440
Now, assuming that these are our
2 front runners and there's not

1496
01:24:58,440 --> 01:25:02,000
some random third movie that
comes out of nowhere on Oscar

1497
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:05,880
night, I mean, neither of us
love either of these movies.

1498
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:10,160
Which one would you be more
satisfied to see take home the

1499
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,720
Oscar I think I'd land on.
Sinners, like, I think sinners

1500
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:20,280
makes more expressive swings and
it's interesting and it it feels

1501
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:24,640
fresh in a lot of ways that for
me, one battle after another

1502
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,720
just didn't.
There it is.

1503
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:27,760
Boom, where?
Where are you at?

1504
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:29,120
Suck.
It Paul Thomas.

1505
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:31,800
Anderson, I mean, I.
Guess.

1506
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:34,560
One battle after another,
because I can understand.

1507
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,600
Yeah, I, I think for all the
same reasons you said, like I, I

1508
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,640
see the swings PTA is going for
there.

1509
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:44,280
It doesn't totally work for me.
But like, I also think there,

1510
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:48,480
there's probably some makeup
element of like, he didn't win

1511
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:51,960
for There Will be blood, he
didn't win for the master.

1512
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,920
Like I think it's just kind of
there's an inevitability to it.

1513
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:57,240
So I'm expecting to see one
battle after another.

1514
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:00,120
Honestly, I'm still hoping that
my favorite movie from last

1515
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:03,760
year, Sorry Baby, which isn't
even nominated, just wins as a

1516
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,080
write in candidate and then
everyone's shocked.

1517
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:07,480
That's that's what I'm hoping
for here.

1518
01:26:07,480 --> 01:26:09,920
That, that would be wild.
I Bob, you haven't even

1519
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:11,600
mentioned sorry baby on the
podcast.

1520
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,240
Give me like 60 seconds on that.
It's.

1521
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:18,360
I mean, it's a really good, it's
a small little independent

1522
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:21,320
drama.
It's gosh, it's I'm not going to

1523
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:24,480
sell you on it because it's kind
of heavy, but it's go look.

1524
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:25,560
It up go.
Watch it.

1525
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,280
It's a really good movie, folks.
Sorry, baby.

1526
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,320
Brad, it's time for us to get
out of here.

1527
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:33,800
So let me say, first of all,
film and Whiskey Nation, thank

1528
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:35,960
you for sticking with us all the
way through season 10.

1529
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:38,040
We're about to have some fun
with the bracket challenge

1530
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:41,200
episodes next week, but we want
to know what you think about

1531
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,680
sinners.
Are we just wildly off base with

1532
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,360
our misinterpretation of the
movie?

1533
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,960
You can let us know on social
media, Facebook, Twitter,

1534
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:55,160
Instagram, TikTok or YouTube at
Film Whiskey or if you want.

1535
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:57,920
To join the conversation,
there's a link to our Discord

1536
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:01,120
server where we talk about
movies and whiskey and life.

1537
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,160
There's a link to that at the
end of every single one of our

1538
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:07,240
show notes.
All right, we'll be back next.

1539
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:10,200
Week with the bracket challenge,
but until then, I'm Bob Book.

1540
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:12,880
I'm Brad G.
And we'll.

1541
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:13,640
See you next time.