The Lord of the Rings at 25: The Cultural Impact of the Trilogy

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Well, hey there everybody.
Welcome into the Film and

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Whiskey podcast.
We are back with a special bonus

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episode.
I First off, I haven't said come

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a long time.
You haven't.

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Bonus episode.
Yeah, baby, it has.

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Bonus.
Bonus episode.

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Well, there it is.
We're already going to get that

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copyright strike 10 seconds in,
man.

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Listen, Brad, it is such an
important bonus episode that I

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don't even know where to start.
But I do know that we needed to

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bring along at least one more
person, because today we are

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talking about the 25th
anniversary of the Lord of the

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Rings film trilogy.
Bob, if it was just you and I,

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we would be a pair.
But when we enter in that third

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person, we become.
A fellowship.

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A fellowship?
That's right because we've

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brought along long time friend
of the show, former host of the

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show, dare I say, Zach Johnston
of Blackwood Distilling.

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Zach, how you doing today, man?
I'm humbled and honored to be

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asked into this fellowship of
the pod with you fine gentlemen,

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and I'm looking forward to our
great journey to the slopes of

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Mount Doom and back again.
You guys have to promise me that

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every single time we say Mordor.
We say it like Agent says it in

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this movie.
Oh yes, you must cross it to

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Mordor.
You just.

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Hold the Rs every.
Time.

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Nico Morrison goes hard on that
word, too.

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He does.
Nico Mortenson makes a lot of

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big choices in these movies,
guys, and we're going to talk

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about all of them, including the
Scottish ones here in a little

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bit.
So So listen guys, it is the

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25th anniversary this year of
the release of the first Lord of

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the Rings film, The Fellowship
of the Ring.

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And to celebrate Peter Jackson
was like, why not make some more

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money In order to do that, he
put all three of the extended

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editions of the Lord of the
Rings films back in theaters as

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a special Fathom event last
weekend all through this week

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where we're recording and into
this coming weekend.

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So if you have not had a chance
to get out to the movie theater

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and catch one of the Lord of the
Rings films in stunning 4K and

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with hours and hours of bonus
footage that you aren't used to

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seeing in the theatrical cuts,
this is your opportunity.

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Brad, we are seizing the
opportunity to talk about these

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movies.
Now listen, we have.

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We've talked about the movies
themselves before.

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We've done a review of every
single one of the Lord of the

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Rings movies and at least one
Hobbit movie.

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Have we done a Hobbit movie?
Bob, I will not let us review a

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Hobbit movie.
So we've done The Lord of the

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Rings.
Here's here's Here's the.

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Reality Bob, There's one good
scene in all The Hobbit movies,

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and I just want you to give it
to me because you you're the

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only one who can do it justice.
Is it is it the end of the

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second one?
Yes.

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Oh, he's like I, I am fire.
I am.

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And then it cuts in radial shot
and he goes death boom, cut to

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black.
Thank you, Smog.

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That that is the only worthwhile
10 seconds of like another 8-9

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hours of footage.
Well, in any case, folks, we,

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we've done episode on all three
Lord of the Rings movies.

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So if you'd like to hear our
thoughts on the individual

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films, you can go back in the
annals of film and whiskey and

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find those.
Today we want to talk with Zach

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because Zach actually went to
the theater this weekend and

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spent I, I believe he slept at
the theater 'cause he watched

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all three films this weekend at
the movie theater.

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And again, these are the
extended versions.

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So we're talking three and a
half, 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 hours

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long.
Brad actually was compelled to

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go to the movie theater, which
is a once a decade event for him

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now.
He went on Sunday and saw the

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extended version of The Return
of the King separately from both

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of these guys over the last
couple months, I decided that it

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was time to introduce my oldest
son to the Lord of the Rings

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trilogy.
And so I have just completed a

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re watch of the theatrical
versions of all three of these.

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And so the confluence of all
these things tells me, Brad,

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that it is destiny that we are
here today to talk about The

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Lord of the Rings.
It absolutely is.

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I think my favorite thing when
you told me that you were

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watching them with him was that
you, like, skipped just a few

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specific parts.
And the way you talked about

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like, yeah, you know, the
opening of Return of the King.

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I just didn't need my like, 8-9
year old seeing Smeagol and

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Diego.
Just I'm like, that is a weirdly

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intimately violent scene.
Well, and then it's also the

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like the transformation, the
slow transformation into Gollum.

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Where it kind of.
Looks like if you shaved Jim

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Carrey's Grinch and then
slathered him in like KY Jelly

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and had him crawl around.
That's kind of what It's just so

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unsettling that I'm like, I
don't know that he needs to see

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this at this young age.
Yeah, he's, he's gonna walk

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around.
Just going.

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Go on, go on.
You mean you don't want the

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extreme close up of him biting
into a raw fish and slowly

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pulling it out as it tears
apart?

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Dude.
I forget this is the first clip.

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This is the first clip for
social media.

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I'm just going to ask the
audience, is Gollum just a lubed

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up Grinch?
That's that's the conversation

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starter that we need to be
having today, Brad.

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Now, the other elements of this
is the fact that, you know, I

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saw this as a 11 and then 12 and
then 13 year old when they came

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out.
I God knows what my dad thought

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he was taking us to when I was
11 to see this, knowing that my

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parents are traditionally not
like scary movie kind of people.

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Not, not that it's necessarily
scary, but you know, there

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there's some elements that could
be scary for an 11 year old.

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Those black writers and
fellowship are.

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Pretty.
Terrifying.

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They're terrifying.
I've come back to it as an adult

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many, many times.
Zach, I'm jealous of you because

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you got to take your two high
school age sons to this.

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And I'm like fascinated to hear
how that affected you as the

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viewer to know that you're
sharing it with your sons.

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But then also like how, how did
they receive it?

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I, you know, they, they, they
have grown up in an era of

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Instagram and Snapchat and all
that.

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Like I really am curious to hear
their response.

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So curiously, because yeah, I
saw all three in the cinema on

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the first run.
And so I was 2223 and 24 when I

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first saw them.
And then remember when the

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extended editions came out
getting the DVDs and they became

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sort of the the crazy thing,
especially for my sons, is these

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movies are just so permeated
deep in our culture, so much so

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that like every single TV show
that's been on TV for the last

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20 years has been a precious
joke with something.

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I mean, there's super cuts out
there.

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You can get watch on YouTube,
you know, you don't just walk,

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you know, like that meme is as
as popular as Leo pointing at

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the TV to them.
You know, like it's, it's one of

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those things where they finally,
it kind of clicked in their

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minds like, oh, this is where
all this originated from.

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Like this is the the sort of
source, if you will, just

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they're very quick reviews
because we saw them Friday

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night, Saturday night, Sunday
night, shit like we were talking

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about it the whole drive home
and we had like a 2025 minute

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drive home just like a maze.
Like it was one of those things

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where it's like, wow, this is a
maze like and we had watched it

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on our TV and we have like, you
know, 72 inch good TV with

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sound.
But there it was like, I get it.

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Like we just was a completely
different experience on the big

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screen. 2 towers walked out.
Like, Yep, that was a movie.

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That's always, that's all that
was said.

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And then return to the King
again, we talked about it for

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like the whole 25 minute ride
home.

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Like I think for them, because
you have to remember they've

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grown up with 9 Star Wars
movies, 50 Marvel movies, 3

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Avatar movies.
Like they're used to that.

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For me as a 22 year old, there
were basically 2 trilogies.

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There was Back to the Future 123
and there was Godfather 123.

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And yes, there are other
trilogies that existed.

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Obviously Terminator One,
Terminator 2, and I think

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Terminator Three had already
been out by that point, but

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like, there weren't film series
with 20 plus entries in 2001,

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right?
And so I feel for them.

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They look at it through a little
more of, yeah, that was a filler

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movie, What's happening next?
Because they've been primed

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their entire lives in that
series of things.

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Where I remember at the time,
and I don't know what your

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guys's experience was, but
everybody was obsessed with Two

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Towers.
Like they thought that was the

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greatest film of all time, the
best of the the series.

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Yeah, dude, 'cause it's playing
rips, that's why.

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But I, I have a, a, a kind of
conspiracy theory about that.

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I think they love the trailer
with the Requiem for a Dream

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soundtrack.
It is and the heated baggers of

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the movie.
But you watch that three minute

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long original trailer that
transitions into the Requiem for

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a Dream music.
Yeah, 3 minute long trailer mind

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you, and it shows the entire
movie.

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I can watch it.
I've not.

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Seen the trailer since it was
probably on TV.

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It's I remember seeing the
trailer in the cinema if I don't

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remember watch movie for and
that music came on because

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recruiting for a dream was
massive as well and sort of

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especially cinephile circles and
it was like people cheered

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during the trailer in the movie.
Can I can I just say I missed

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the days when we cheered at the
theaters because I the last.

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Time like.
I remember like a little bit of

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applause at the end of End Game
when, you know, when it came

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out.
The last time I remember having

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a legitimate, like the audience
roared at the end of the film

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was Lord of the Rings, Return of
the King.

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I mean, it was one of the, IT
was one of my favorite theater

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experiences ever.
Like for Frodo moment like I I

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vaguely remember that too.
Like so like these movies for

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me, like represent coming into
my own and becoming a a true

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adult.
You're a a flowering young man.

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Just yeah, bursting forth in the
bloom.

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Guys, before we get too far down
the rattle hole, let's zoom out

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a little bit.
Let's set the stage.

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Because we could literally talk
about these movies for hours.

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We got to put some structure
around it.

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And in order to help us do that,
we actually put a call out to

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some of our friends in the
whiskey world to give us their

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takes on the Lord of the Rings
trilogy.

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And we got phone calls and
voicemail messages and emails

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from quite a few of them talking
about a range of things from

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whether they prefer the extended
version to the theatrical

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version to the Christian
allegory in the in these movies.

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So there's a number of topics
that we're going to hit on

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today.
I do think that Zach kind of

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eased us into our first, like,
the first major place we should

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go, which is talking about this
as a trilogy and how the trilogy

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is telling one overarching
narrative.

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And this is different than even
what Kevin Feige is able to kind

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of cobble together in the MCU.
No matter how much they want to

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tell us that that was one
planned arc.

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You can tell they were piercing
it together as they went, which

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is very similar to, I mean, even
if you throw back to like the

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original trilogy of Star Wars,
you know, like George Lucas says

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now that he had that all planned
out.

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And it's like, have you seen the
poster of the original Star Wars

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and the hand placement of Leia
on Luke's crotch?

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I don't think this was planned.
So the, the interesting thing

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about Lord of the Rings is that
it still stands as it's, it's

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this interesting bridge from
classic Hollywood to what we

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have now.
And I think that you can kind of

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hold it up against movies like
Jaws, where it heralded a new

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era in terms of entertainment
and for better and for worse,

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right?
Like some of the things that the

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Lord of the Rings opens the
floodgates for is the MCU and

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all of the the crappy stuff we
got as a result of that.

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But it's also like you can't you
can't compare it directly to the

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MCU because I even remember,
like when Return of the King

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came out, all the TV spots,
there was a pull quote that was

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like, this movie takes its place
alongside Lawrence of Arabia as

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one of the great epics.
And it's like it does.

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It is a truly epic filmmaking
feats that also happens to be in

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the vein of like a Spielbergian
blockbuster.

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It's both of those things.
And I don't think any movie had

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really accomplished that to that
point.

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And you still have the the added
layer of like this was a planned

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trilogy from the beginning where
you were adapting it from an IP

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that had a beginning, middle and
end and they were going to be

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released back-to-back to back.
They were filmed at the same

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time.
And so it is different than a

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Star Wars.
It's like we had never had a

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film trilogy that was planned as
a trilogy, not reliant on the

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success of any of the first two
films to get to the third film.

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And it was just prepackaged for
us, ready to go.

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This was like a This was a
monumental piece of movie making

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just from the production of it.
The beauty of it and to your

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00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,200
point, Bob, is we didn't and
this is what Marvel ruin and

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00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,080
Peter Jackson is kind of to
blame for this because of The

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Hobbit.
We didn't need a movie for every

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character to know who that
character is.

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And we didn't need 10 or 15
minutes of back story about

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00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,600
every character.
Know who that character is, Bob,

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00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,720
because Jackson was going by
Lawrence of the rabies rules,

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00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,440
Godfather rules all those
viewers like no, this is who

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you'll see who the person is by
just watching.

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Pay attention, watch, enjoy.
I don't need a Legolas movie.

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00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,680
I don't need an Aragon movie.
I don't need a Pippin movie.

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00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,520
I don't need a Gandalf movie.
Like it's like, no, here you go.

257
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,360
And the Marvel end game Infinity
war structure could have been

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00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,840
the same.
It could have been like Captain

259
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,840
America, Winter Soldier,
literally Infinity war end game

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00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,560
done.
And it's that's what's beautiful

261
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,360
about going back and watching
these films as they're yes, it

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00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,480
is.
What was it?

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00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,920
1213 hours?
But it felt concise.

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00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,920
Yeah, I think, I think that was
for me just seeing Return of the

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00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,360
King again, not having the time
to go see all three.

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I felt like it moved.
I like I was amazed at the

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00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,720
pacing of a four hour and was it
424 hour and 25 minute movie?

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00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,800
I I didn't have to get up to
pee.

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I didn't have to like I didn't
ever like feel tired.

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I just sat there for four hours.
And.

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It just truly, it just washes
over you and the emotional beats

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00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,920
are so well laid out that you
have highs and then you're able

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00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,560
to come down off of that and it
gives you a little chance to

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breathe and move into the next
big scene.

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I was just, I was just blown
away by the pacing of the film

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00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,560
that it could feel so energetic
and yet allow you to just

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experience it throughout the
whole thing.

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00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,600
It it was so well done.
One thing I want to ask, and I

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00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,960
guess this, I'm going to throw
this to Zach because Brad did

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00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,080
not have the chance to rewatch
them all in in close succession,

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00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,480
which I did that with the
theatricals and you just did it

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00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,120
with the extended versions.
If there is a nitpick that I can

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00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,080
make about the trilogy as a
whole, it's that tonally from

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00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,760
film to film.
But you know, at the beginning

285
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,280
of Two Towers, there's like a
lot of weird, like shaky Cam

286
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,960
when they're walking through
that mountain and it takes a

287
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,040
minute to kind of figure out
like this.

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00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,120
This has a different vibe than
Fellowship did and it feels a

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00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,560
little bit more cobbled
together.

290
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,680
And Two Towers are still maybe
my favorite 1.

291
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,520
So like, I'm not going to crap
all over it.

292
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:10,000
But watching them as a marathon,
I think kind of pointed out a

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00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,720
few of the cracks in the facade
a little bit more than having to

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00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,560
wait a full year in between, you
know, even.

295
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,360
And even then, I remember guys
like I vividly remember we

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00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:21,880
missed Fellowship in the
theater.

297
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,000
It probably came out sometime in
the summer on on DVD.

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00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,120
We watched it one time.
My dad was like, I didn't like

299
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,360
that that much.
And then he kind of heard that

300
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,360
there's this big battle in Two
Towers.

301
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,400
And so we went opening night to
the theater.

302
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,560
He'd already forgotten how much
he didn't like the first one.

303
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,920
And I do think that there's
something about like being able

304
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,080
to space them out helps the the
different vibe and flow of each

305
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,720
one a little bit more than
cramming them back-to-back.

306
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,320
Zach, I'd like to hear your
thoughts on that.

307
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,000
Absolutely, and I think again,
it's it's relative to our time,

308
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,320
right?
Like we're used to every movie

309
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,280
like this having a big Helms
deep like battle.

310
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,440
I mean, they stuck it into like
Alice in Wonderland and Snow

311
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,520
White movies.
They stuck it into every Marvel

312
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,200
movie, every DC movie, every
movie has this big.

313
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,400
They stuck it.
They made a Nutcracker movie

314
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,359
live action that has a big.
Battle like this.

315
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,040
Like I forgot about that.
They stick it into everything

316
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:22,480
now and so the fatigue of two
towers hits way harder now than

317
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:28,359
I think it did then.
I also find this isn't so much

318
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,920
tone, but the development of CGI
between 2002 and 2003 is

319
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:40,160
shocking when you see them back.
Gollum is in tree beard and the

320
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,320
ants are hard to look at in two
towers.

321
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,240
And then CGI had developed
enough by two by the time

322
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,560
they're working in 2003.
I would guess Olum looks so much

323
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,360
better in return.
There isn't as much.

324
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,880
There's no ants, so there's no
and CGI.

325
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,160
The tone of also the ants is
really, I mean, there's very

326
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,400
famously Peter Jackson did like
little blurbs before each of the

327
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,520
screenings.
And it is very rambling.

328
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,640
Like the the Return of the King
one, I think is very sweet

329
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,760
because he talks about people
they've lost and their

330
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:14,680
friendships and things like
that.

331
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,080
And that was actually nice.
But during Two Towers, he talks

332
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,480
about how, you know, they're
talking about what they need to

333
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,000
cut out, what they need to keep
in.

334
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,520
And he's like, oh, we got to
keep in the ants because they're

335
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,080
funny and them talking slowly
and not doing anything quick is

336
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,400
funny.
And I thought it was funny.

337
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,760
So it needs to stay in.
And I'm just like, I'd like to

338
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:39,800
respectfully disagree.
You know, I that's important for

339
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,440
Eisenhart And that don't get me
wrong, Like I understand the the

340
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,360
value of that storyline, but the
faithfulness is already

341
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,800
stretched pretty thin there.
And that's such it just grinds

342
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,440
the movie to a halt.
And you don't have that in

343
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,200
Fellowship or Return.
Those two movies click along at

344
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,960
an amazing pace.
I personally like Fellowship the

345
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:01,240
most.
I've always rewatched that the

346
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,440
most.
There's just something magically

347
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,640
beautiful about that film.
Again, a lot less CGI, of

348
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,840
course, mostly practical.
And it's just it it the the

349
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,680
message I feel like is clearest
in that film.

350
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:22,640
You know the but the tone going
into I.

351
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,680
I feel like the ants really
dragged 2 towers down this time

352
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,920
around.
And the vision.

353
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,640
Didn't help.
That's a good segue to start

354
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,960
talking about like kind of
what's left in and what's left

355
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:39,000
out and the the existence of
extended editions, right?

356
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,440
Exactly the existence of the
extended editions as canonical

357
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,320
things now too, and not just
like a director's cut, like it's

358
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,600
a real thing that's now been
released in theaters.

359
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,600
You have to reckon with that
too.

360
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,560
And I've always been of the
opinion, Brad, that the only one

361
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,320
of these 3 movies that is maybe
improved by having an extended

362
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,080
cut is Fellowship.
And you know my my big take on

363
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,360
Fellowship when we reviewed the
theatrical version for the

364
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,200
podcast was.
It's it's the most Tolkany like

365
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,600
it's, it's the most directly
lifted from Tolkien.

366
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,840
It's the most of his language.
They don't explain a lot.

367
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,920
There's just people talking
about Mithran deal and Ellen

368
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,320
Deal and you're like, what are
all these elvish words?

369
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,440
I thought his name was Aragorn
and he's Strider and they don't

370
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,280
explain any of it.
Why do people have multiple

371
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,480
names?
And so as like an American who

372
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,120
likes to be spoon fed stuff, I,
I'm really struggling with

373
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,760
fellowship.
And I do feel like some of the

374
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,280
additional footage in Fellowship
really helped kind of round out

375
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,920
some of that for me when I was
younger and needed that.

376
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,040
Was your 10 minutes of back
story you needed?

377
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,480
It was my yeah, dude, it's like
30 more minutes of back story.

378
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,240
This would be a great movie.
And Peter Jackson listened to

379
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,280
me.
Flivered.

380
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,960
But then even even then you
still have like very famously,

381
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,280
they've cut out the character of
Tom Bombadil completely from

382
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,640
these films.
And Brad, I, you know, I, I

383
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,360
don't know if I've mentioned it
yet in this recording.

384
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,400
I've never read the Lord of the
Rings books.

385
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,280
I've, I've read half of
Fellowship and that's it.

386
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,640
I've read The Hobbit, I've read
some other Tolkien, but like, I

387
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,080
just never got into reading The
Lord of the Rings.

388
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,600
And so Tom Bombadil's importance
is is nil to me.

389
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,800
And it just seems like something
that fans like to get kind of

390
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,440
grumbly about, but.
Sure.

391
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:24,120
You know, there's, there's some
real creative license that

392
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:28,160
happens as the movies go on too.
They they rearrange timelines

393
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,680
because apparently, and you guys
would know this better than me

394
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,040
in the second book, you
essentially get like the story

395
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,960
of, you know, Aragorn and Gimli
and Rohan and all of them in 1/2

396
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,400
of the book.
And then it's like, let's

397
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,040
completely shift perspectives
and pick back up where we left

398
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,720
off with Frodo and Sam
technically.

399
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaking technically speaking,
Bob, it's actually six books

400
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,680
that the publishers repackaged
as three books.

401
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,720
And so when you read them, it's
actually book 1 and Book 2.

402
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,320
It's contained in Fellowship.
It's Fellowship 3 follows Gimli,

403
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,880
Legolas, Aragorn, Mary and
Pippen and the ends and all

404
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,600
that.
And then halfway through the

405
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,120
book, you switch to book 4,
which just follows Frodo, Sam

406
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:17,520
and Gallo.
And I like I've, I've read them

407
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,320
probably five Times Now.
Wow.

408
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,760
And the the thing that I've
actually enjoyed.

409
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,600
I wouldn't recommend this for
like a first time read through.

410
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,760
I, I think that there is a
beauty to reading through Gimli,

411
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,360
Legolas and Aragorn's half and
wondering the whole time, like

412
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,680
what's going on with Frodo.
You can actually pretty much

413
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,720
line it up where you could read
a chapter from book 3, read a

414
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,400
chapter from book 4, go back and
forth and that actually makes

415
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,920
for a really fun reading
experience as well.

416
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,760
I there's also.
How they do the two towers, like

417
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,280
they've got their AB and C
story, like it's a sitcom and

418
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,360
they cut back and forth to all
three of them and you know some

419
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,280
of them have less weight than
the others.

420
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,560
Like I will freely admit the
tree beard plot, it's kind of

421
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:08,280
crappy until you get the ants
are going to war.

422
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,520
Dude, the last part of the
Edison guard.

423
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,720
It's so freaking good man.
Everything about the last hour

424
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,960
of the two towers is just pure
cinematic perfection to me,

425
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,720
culminating in Sam's speech.
And again, this is where I get

426
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,320
into like the the the license
that they took because

427
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,000
apparently, you know, all the
stuff that happens in the third

428
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,400
film with she Lob's layer is
part of the two towers book or

429
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,360
is at least happening
concurrently with some of the

430
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:38,960
events of two towers.
And they're like, we can't we

431
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,960
can't end the movie there for
Frodo and Sam.

432
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,320
And so they have to kind of
finesse timelines.

433
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,040
And who cares?
Like, it's a movie, not a book.

434
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,160
Like it's going to be formatted
differently.

435
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,640
Hitchcock said it best.
You read it once and you throw

436
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,240
it away and make a movie.
You know The Shining's not

437
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,160
Stephen King's The Shining
either, and who cares, right?

438
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,200
I and like also, you don't have
the same per you don't have the

439
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,320
same real estate in a book that
you do in a movie and vice

440
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,800
versa.
You have to move things in a

441
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,640
different fashion in a film.
That means you don't need to

442
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,360
repeat yourself to prove the
same point over and over and

443
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:19,400
over again.
It's like, well, and also, I

444
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,120
mean, in the book, it takes
Frodo 17 years to get ready to

445
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:27,040
go because he's a Hobbit.
OK, so the movie we don't have.

446
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,760
Time for that?
We don't have time for that,

447
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,120
Yeah.
You know, something like that,

448
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:32,840
you know?
This gets to the idea of like,

449
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,480
is it faithful to the spirit of
what you're adapting or does it

450
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,400
have to be literal?
And I think that now we've we've

451
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:45,920
so developed and coddled and
kowtowed to fandoms and what

452
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:51,040
they expect in their Movies Now
that it it's refreshing to me.

453
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,280
You know, Brad, my one of my
favorite movies of all time is

454
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,000
Jurassic Park.
And the differences from the

455
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,640
book to the screen in Jurassic
Park could not be more drastic.

456
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,080
I mean like entire characters
survive that die in the book.

457
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,200
Like, Michael Crichton has to
completely retcon the the end of

458
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,520
Jurassic Park just to write The
Lost World because the movie's

459
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,840
more popular than the book, and
now he has to write to what

460
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,360
Spielberg did on screen.
Have you ever read Jaws?

461
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,720
Jaws is a terrible book.
Exactly.

462
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,240
And there are.
There's this whole subplot where

463
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,040
Richard Dreyfuss is having an
affair with Brody's wife.

464
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,240
Throwing in Roy Schneider's
wife, Yes.

465
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,680
Yeah.
Yes, guess what we would have

466
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,360
made?
That any movie right right hey

467
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:39,040
guys you like you like wine like
you know like so it's like so

468
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,560
this.
Has never been an issue for me

469
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,040
and I I've always wondered if
it's just because I've never

470
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,920
read the book.
So like all I really know and

471
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:51,120
care about is the movies, but
you can't evaluate a film and

472
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,120
it's effectiveness as a work of
art based on whatever it was

473
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,480
adapted from.
That is just a losing battle and

474
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,000
it's never going to be a way of
of really critiquing a movie.

475
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,360
I mean, I would say that
there's, I would say that

476
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:09,520
there's elements.
If you are going to adapt

477
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:15,680
something, you need to stay
faithful to the overarching

478
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:22,640
message or like the underlying
threads of connectivity between

479
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,960
what the author was intending
for his audience to take away

480
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,360
from the book.
And I think with Tolkien and

481
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,480
Jackson as the authors of these
two experiences, I think that

482
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:42,920
you see a through line in the
film and in the literary

483
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,320
versions of this.
The the big thing for me is that

484
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,160
the one place that Jackson kind
of moves off base from where

485
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Tolkien is is how he portrays
inner struggle for characters.

486
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,080
That's just something that,
like, Tolkien didn't care about.

487
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,920
You know, you were talking
earlier, just a few seconds ago,

488
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,440
about like, differences between
the books.

489
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,760
One of the absolute biggest ones
that fans complain about is the

490
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,960
change of Fair Amir.
In the books, fair Amir is

491
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,760
everything that Boromir wasn't.
He sees the ring, and it's

492
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,120
almost the same as Tom Bombadil
seeing the ring.

493
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,600
He just goes, yeah, that's the
Ring of power.

494
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,320
I'm not going to use it like I
need to help you and he and

495
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,400
there's no such he brings him
back to Ozgilieth.

496
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,840
That is all a creation of of
Jackson and his writing team.

497
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,840
And at like, I'm not a I'm not a
super fan.

498
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Who cares about that?
I think it leads to one of the

499
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,120
greatest speeches written in all
three movies.

500
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,080
That's not actually a Tolkien
speech.

501
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,920
There's a great video out there.
I don't remember who made it.

502
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,520
I'll, I'll try to look it up so
I can properly credit them.

503
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,840
But they basically talked about
on YouTube, they talked about

504
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:04,280
why the things that Jackson and
his team created for the movies

505
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,800
that were not in the book feel
so Tolkien esque that they like.

506
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,040
They still jive and groove with
everything that Tolkien did

507
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,400
right 'cause they really do use,
they lift so much material

508
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,080
straight from the books for the
movies.

509
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,840
And I, I think the core element
is that even when they change a

510
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,320
character like Fermere, who in
the book is like a paragon of

511
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,840
good and chooses the right thing
from the very start into this

512
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,560
character who is like struggling
with his father's, you know,

513
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,720
doubt in him and, and hatred of
him and almost takes the ring

514
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,440
because he's trying to get his
dad's approval.

515
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,880
Like, that's very different from
the book, but it still leads us

516
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,600
to a place where he's confronted
with the great evil of the world

517
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:55,320
and chooses the good.
And like, that is, for me, the

518
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,200
story of Lord of the Rings.
You have a few characters in the

519
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,160
books and the movies that are
like, you know, Sauron is pure

520
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,800
evil, Saruman is pure evil.
And then you have a few

521
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,800
characters that are just like
purely good, that are kind of on

522
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,440
the edge of things.
Like you have Elrond and

523
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,760
Galadriel and even Gandalf to a
point that they're just pure

524
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,400
good.
They're going to do good things.

525
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,680
And then everybody in the middle
between those two are faced with

526
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,920
that pure good and pure evil.
And it's like, who are they

527
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,440
based on the actions they take
in the light of such great

528
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,440
darkness and light?
And so I think that's why the

529
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,320
movies like stick the landing so
incredibly well is because they

530
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,640
stay close to that even when
they take some detours around

531
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,600
what Tolkien was writing.
And it's the beauty of that as

532
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,360
well as its choice, right?
Like, you know, the white wizard

533
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,840
and the Gray wizard, they have
the same access to the same

534
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,560
information, but one of them
chooses an easy path of power

535
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,520
and hate and evil because it's
easy.

536
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360
He doesn't have to do any work.
He's got orcs to do the work to

537
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,480
to do all that.
And one of them chooses path of

538
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,960
the hardest path of having to
put these huge responsibilities

539
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,280
on his path.
Yeah.

540
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,480
And like, and the hard path is
often the path at least to good.

541
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,400
I mean, it's you guys know well
the road to Hell's paved with

542
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,720
good intention, guys.
But I never even thought about

543
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,080
that.
Like the difference between the

544
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,520
geographical shift of Gandalf.
I mean, he's riding from the

545
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,520
Shire down to Gondor up to
Merkwood, all around these all

546
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,600
three movies, and you see
Solomon in one place.

547
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,520
One spot.
That I've never.

548
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,160
Thought that before, but even
even when you look at Wormwood

549
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,080
right, like he's taken the easy
choice as well because he wants

550
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,280
power.
So he's become the acolyte of

551
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,400
Solomon.
But also at the end when

552
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,000
Gandalf's in the extended
edition of two towers, they or

553
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,400
sorry have returned the king.
They have his death properly

554
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,040
because Christopher Lee was
like, you're showing me get a

555
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,520
death asshole.
You're not cutting that.

556
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,120
And but Wormwood chooses like
Gandalf, like you can come back

557
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,560
to Rohan.
You can come back.

558
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,280
You didn't be a person again.
It's not going to be easy, but

559
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,120
you can do it.
And he chooses the easy path,

560
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,000
which is to stab him, you know,
Soren in the back or Solomon in

561
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,400
the back, and, you know, end his
life that way because that's the

562
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,200
easy way out, right?
And so you have and Theoden's

563
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,560
another great example of this
where it's like, you know, I'm

564
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,000
talking about after he's not no
longer possessed, where he's

565
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,240
like, hey, like, you know, I'm
trying to protect my people

566
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,920
here.
If you call on me all come, but

567
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,400
I'm not going to go volunteer
shit because I got stuff to do,

568
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,520
man.
And that's sort of I think

569
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600
what's so brilliant about that
character is he steps up when

570
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:49,240
asked, but also has the realism
of I, you know, I got to make

571
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,520
sure work.
OK.

572
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,880
And that's, you know, the sort
of beauty of the whole plane

573
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,640
into like, like you said, Brad,
like the multiple levels.

574
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,680
And Bob, I have to ask you, how
annoying is it when we're like

575
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,800
talking about place names and
people names and stuff like

576
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,640
that, that?
Because no, it's not annoying

577
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,600
because I don't think you guys
understand.

578
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,840
Brad might.
I was obsessed with these

579
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,080
movies.
Like I've watched every special

580
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,800
feature on every DVD version of
every movie.

581
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,760
However, I don't know if our
audience has.

582
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,640
I do want to keep this a little
bit like, what's the cultural

583
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,920
impact of these movies?
And I think, guys, we actually

584
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,280
need to get to a break here.
Before we get there.

585
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,640
I want to play a clip from our
first caller of the day.

586
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,480
It's our friend David Thomas Tao
who has a pretty hot taste about

587
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,560
the extended editions of these
movies.

588
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,200
One thing I really respect about
the Lord of the Rings trilogy of

589
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,640
movies is what they didn't put
in the final cuts and the

590
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,320
restraint that they showed in
those edits.

591
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,840
I've watched the director's cut
of all three movies a couple

592
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,680
times at this point, maybe
several, and let me tell you,

593
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,680
they're not as good.
For example, the Mouth of Sauron

594
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,560
is not in the version of the
Return of the King that we saw

595
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,480
in theaters, but it is in the
director's cut.

596
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,120
And it doesn't add.
Anything to that film.

597
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,400
In fact, it makes it worse.
It's a little bit hokey, I think

598
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:17,320
with a world as broad as that
presented in the book trilogy,

599
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,000
deciding what not to put in,
like Tom Bombadil has a huge

600
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,120
impact into the ultimate viewer
experience, and I am so glad

601
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,000
that Peter Jackson and the
incredible team behind those

602
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,520
movies showed the restraint they
did.

603
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,560
All right, So thank you, David,
for your scorching hot takes on

604
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,600
the extended editions of these
movies.

605
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,280
I will say, guys, in general,
you know, unless it's the type

606
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,040
of movie that was ripped from a
director's hands and chopped

607
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,400
down by a studio against their
will, director's cuts are always

608
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,440
just like, they're fun vanity
projects, but I never consider

609
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,560
them to be like the canonical
version of the film.

610
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,240
You know, we talked about this
with Amadeus, Brad.

611
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,040
Like, yeah, the Amadeus
director's cut is it's too long.

612
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,680
And there's a reason that the
theatrical version wins best

613
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,600
picture.
I feel the same way about Return

614
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,360
of the King here.
It's cool for fans like us to

615
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,840
see this this bonus content and
it's cool to see it as final

616
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,360
footage and not just like half
finished pre viz VFX.

617
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,560
But I do think in general for
me, I agree with David that the

618
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,520
theatrical cuts of these movies
are the best versions of these

619
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,920
films.
I'd like to hear what you guys

620
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,600
think, especially Zach since he
just sat through 11 hours of

621
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,880
them.
Yeah, I prefer the theatrical

622
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,840
cuts, but I do like some of the
stuff that is put back in like I

623
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,040
love Mary and have been finding
like the the locker room and

624
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,159
isn't garden.
That's a wonderful little scene,

625
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,239
right.
Like stuff like that is great.

626
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,000
I don't know if I agree about
the mouth being like the problem

627
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,080
with the mouth mouth being there
is it's amazing, but it does

628
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,600
repeat stuff we already know.
And I think that's the key,

629
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,760
right.
Like I know you don't want to

630
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,600
kill your babies.
But also there, Bob, you said

631
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,080
you watched all the special
features.

632
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,040
They were always going to
release an extended cut of these

633
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,800
movies.
Like that was from day one the

634
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,440
plan.
So they knew what was going to

635
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,440
be in the extended cut and they
could have maybe massaged a

636
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,440
little bit more and not have
some of the be repetitive

637
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,120
because there's stuff in
Fellowship that they act with

638
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,320
Aragorn and when he when they're
in Reverendale, that's pretty

639
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,520
repetitive too.
And so it's cool to see and it's

640
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,120
cool to see on the big screen
especially.

641
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,600
But I kind of leaned towards
what Dave's talked about.

642
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,280
Yeah, I, I'm actually, I'm with
them.

643
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,600
I think for a lot of my life I
would have been a part of the

644
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,440
like Extended or Bust Bros
group.

645
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:39,880
At.
Least the Snyder Cut.

646
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,160
That is something the world does
not need to see.

647
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,600
I think for me right now, I
enjoy the theatricals more

648
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,280
partially just because of time
of life.

649
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,480
Like I have a 5 year old and two
year old and newborn.

650
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,160
Like I don't have time for all
that.

651
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,920
If I'm going to watch these,
it's going to be in 40 minute

652
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,480
chunks and I'd rather it be like
340 minute chunks instead of

653
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,000
five.
And like that just sounds better

654
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,120
to me.
I do think that the theatrical

655
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:15,760
cut to to agree with David, it
really does show the restraint

656
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,760
to cut out a lot of stuff you
know is going to be really

657
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,840
important.
And the one that we haven't

658
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,160
talked about yet that I think
makes the most sense for this

659
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,360
trilogy to cut out.
And yet I really wish I could

660
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,520
see in a theatrical edition is
the the harrowing of the Shire

661
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,840
at the end of Return of the
King.

662
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,200
I just, Bob, if you were to ever
read something, I actually would

663
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,320
because you've watched the
movies so intensely, I would

664
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,560
actually tell you to just go
read the last.

665
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,480
It's like 3 or 4 chapters of
Return of the Kings.

666
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,520
It's, I think it's actually
called the Scouring of the

667
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,320
Scouring of the Book, right?
Yeah.

668
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,160
Which, and I, it's now all I
know of it is to hear what Peter

669
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,400
Jackson has said about it in, in
the bonus content of these,

670
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,880
which is like, you know, this is
being written post war Britain,

671
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,160
right?
Like it's about how even when

672
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,520
you're fighting for good and you
think you can be an

673
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,280
isolationist, like the war is
going to come to you.

674
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:18,400
And there is no idyllic sort of
getaway that you can go to.

675
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:24,120
The, the, the tendrils of evil
will touch everything, even if

676
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,320
we try to save it, right?
And it's, it's shocking and it's

677
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,040
harrowing and it's a it's a good
message to have.

678
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,240
I'm glad they didn't do it in
the movies.

679
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:36,480
Like the frankly, I am like I
it's these guys in terms of a

680
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,280
dramatic arc, they deserve to go
back home.

681
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,080
They deserve to sleep with the
waitress from the pub and have a

682
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,360
bunch of little Hobbit kids and
live happily ever after and

683
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,600
drink beer.
Like that's I'm sorry, but like

684
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,400
and it is a more emotionally
rewarding ending.

685
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,600
They still do that in the book,
but OK.

686
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,840
So yeah, they they still do that
in the book.

687
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,760
Spoiler alert for a 70 years 80
year old book at this point.

688
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,440
Sure, sure.
I I agree, I think the movie

689
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,360
needed to end there.
If you added that on it would be

690
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,120
way too much.
And I think for the purposes of

691
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:15,720
the movie story, it makes sense.
Like the Shire has existed as

692
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:17,280
this.
Did you remember the

693
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,440
strawberries, Mr. Frodo?
And like just that utterly

694
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,520
crushing moment of like, I don't
remember the Shire.

695
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:31,000
I don't remember like you need
that because it highlights the

696
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,200
bitterness and beauty of Frodo's
departure, that they get back to

697
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,960
the Shire and he can remember it
and it's still broken it still.

698
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,160
Doesn't, Yeah.
And so I think that fits the

699
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,280
story.
I think the beauty of the

700
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,160
Scouring of the Shire is that in
the books you see all sorts of

701
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,400
characters who responds to evil.
And the hobbits really are the

702
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,000
most malleable of all the
characters in the books because

703
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,080
they come from the Garden of
Eden, essentially.

704
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,600
And they are they, yeah, they
they come out and they are Adam

705
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,120
and Eve trying to figure out
their way in a dark and evil

706
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,280
world.
And so at the end of the book,

707
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,480
when evil has made itself
present in their Garden of Eden,

708
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,320
they know how to act and they've
gained the skills of how to act,

709
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,400
but they've all, they've all
seen what to do in the face of

710
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,840
evil.
And so this is like everybody is

711
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,080
stripped away.
Gandalf isn't there, Aragor and

712
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,920
Legolas, nobody's there.
And they get to rise up and and

713
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,600
defeat evil in their homeland.
And it's, it's I freaking love

714
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,080
the scouring of the Shire.
It's such a perfect way to end

715
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,080
the book.
And they didn't need to do it in

716
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,560
the movie.
I mean, and also like it's

717
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,160
again, it's the, it's the real
estate you have, right?

718
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,200
Like the story is over when the
ring is gone.

719
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:55,840
Like yeah, period.
Like in.

720
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,640
Oh, contrary, my friend.
We've got six more endings to go

721
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,920
through in Return of the King.
Here's the thing that didn't

722
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,480
seem as bad this time around.
Like watching them in

723
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,200
succession, it all felt, yeah.
Dude cuz you'd been there for

724
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,400
five hours already.
You're like what's another 40 at

725
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:10,040
this point?
I.

726
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,680
I.
Literally earned man.

727
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,000
My wife texted me and was like
hey just where you guys at?

728
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,800
Like the girls are getting a
little restless and I just sent

729
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,800
her a GIF of you bow to no one
cuz that's literally what had

730
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,360
just happened on screen.
And she goes, oh, great, so you

731
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:30,120
got another 45 minutes.
Speaking of having another 45

732
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,320
minutes, guys, it's time for us
to take a quick break.

733
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,120
We will be back to continue
talking about this trilogy and I

734
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,880
will continue trying to keep
these guys from getting too

735
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,680
nerdy about the whole thing.
We'll be back in a little bit on

736
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:47,600
film and whiskey.
All right, we're back talking

737
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,000
about the Lord of the Rings
trilogy guys, I want to zoom out

738
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,160
a little bit.
I want to talk about, you know,

739
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Brad, you, you mentioned time of
life, place in life that we are

740
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,640
now and how these movies hit
differently.

741
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Zach, you're, you know, you've
just introduced these to your

742
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,240
boys.
This is like.

743
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Can I can I ask was this their?
Was this your boys first time

744
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,120
seeing it or had they seen it at
home with you previously?

745
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,200
We watched Fellowship maybe last
summer or maybe even less like a

746
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,160
year ago.
And so you guys know this about

747
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,600
me, but for your listeners, I'm
a very much you need to see it

748
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,920
in the cinema guy when it comes
to movies and I watch

749
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,240
Fellowship.
I love Fellowship, but I

750
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:28,840
watched, I was like, I don't
want their first experience of

751
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,440
this to be here.
I went up to be a full on cinema

752
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,760
experience.
So we didn't watch the other

753
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,040
two, but they had seen
Fellowship.

754
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,640
OK, there is something about
watching these movies in your

755
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,840
living room, which I mean,
obviously pales in comparison to

756
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,440
the theater.
Because in the theater, I feel

757
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,320
like you don't have to put in as
much effort to try to get

758
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,720
somebody to like something
because they're just immersed.

759
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,760
Like there's nowhere else to go.
Whereas like if you're at home

760
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,840
and you're trying to show your
girlfriend or your wife or your

761
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,440
kid or whatever something, or
make them listen to something

762
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,760
and you get a text message and
your phone Dings loudly or, you

763
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,680
know, the oven beeps or whatever
the hell.

764
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,160
Like any distraction is like
damn it like you pulled me out

765
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,960
of immersion here.
And so like the Nasgol shriek

766
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:19,600
crossing the theatre's sound
system as it Oh yes, it's like

767
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,840
an X, It's like the TIE fighters
coming across the Falcon, like.

768
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,800
But you know what, Brett?
I think I've mentioned this

769
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,840
before too.
There's something about when

770
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,440
you're we, we've done it for the
movie before.

771
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,720
We're like, I'm rewatching a
movie and I'm watching it with

772
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:36,720
my wife for the first time
because we have to review it on

773
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,960
the show.
And it's a movie I love deeply,

774
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,560
but I haven't seen in a while.
And I'm like, oh boy, oh boy, my

775
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:42,640
wife's going to watch it with
me.

776
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,920
And so when when you're trying
to make sure somebody loves

777
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,880
something and you kind of get
that feeling of like you're

778
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,880
looking at them, you're looking
at the movie, you're looking at

779
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,680
them, you're looking.
And, and you the first time they

780
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,080
go like, like, no, no, no, no,
no, no, don't do that.

781
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,520
Like, and you start to see
cracks in the movie where you

782
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,920
didn't before because you're
watching it for the first time

783
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,240
through the lens of like, how is
somebody who may not be vibing

784
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:14,680
with this watching this movie?
And so, you know, as we, as we

785
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,920
get into different times in our
lives and as we introduce this

786
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,400
movie to people who may or may
not like it as much as we do, I

787
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,440
just kind of want to hear your
guys's takes.

788
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,200
This is not the time yet for
nitpicks.

789
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,520
We can get into that.
But like.

790
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,920
What?
What has resonated across the

791
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,800
years for you?
What's improved with time?

792
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,200
Or like what are new wrinkles
that you found with these

793
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,160
movies?
Life lessons, right?

794
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,600
Like we were talking a little
bit about choice that people

795
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,680
make based on the information
they have.

796
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,760
And for me, having a 14 and 16
year old who whom are about to

797
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,800
1, go to a boarding school and
the other to university and

798
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:55,120
leave the house basically and
start their journey in their

799
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,320
adult lives, so to speak, even
though they're teenagers.

800
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,880
But you know what I mean?
For me, it's that like, you

801
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:08,520
know, empathy is #1 but also
understanding and commonality

802
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,120
and kindness and do and doing
the right thing is hard.

803
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,400
Like it's OK to say you don't
know.

804
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,360
It's OK to say I was wrong.
I did my best.

805
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,200
And these movies exemplify that
at every single turn, you know,

806
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,880
And in return, you know, after
after Frodo and Sam split up and

807
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,120
it becomes obvious what column
is doing.

808
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,480
And, you know, when they come
back together and, you know, the

809
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,160
first thing Frodo musters is
this heartfelt, tearful apology

810
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,400
to Sam.
And Sam's like, I know it's OK.

811
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,440
And just the those little things
like that where it's just like,

812
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,160
you know, say you're wrong.
It's OK.

813
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,480
Like, if the person loves you,
it's going to be OK.

814
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,400
And that's the sort of beauty of
life that I think people often

815
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,160
have emotional disconnects with,
you know, people telling them

816
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,720
that that's OK, or, you know,
you see that that's OK, but you

817
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:01,520
don't maybe know that it's OK
because you don't have someone

818
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,760
there to support that point of
view.

819
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,960
And these films, I think, hammer
that home really well.

820
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,560
And I think especially with
Gandalf of, I don't know, like

821
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,440
we're doing the best we can, you
know, all the way through, you

822
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,080
know, and also having immense
guilt for, you know, the fact

823
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,440
that other people are having
hardships that he has helped

824
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,080
them get into, but for a greater
purpose, right?

825
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,080
And so, you know, life is hard
and doing the right thing is

826
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,120
harder.
And I think that's an important

827
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,560
lesson to take out into life.
And I'm glad that I have the

828
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,800
access to culture points that
show that lesson.

829
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,640
And we can talk about that
lesson on the drive home and we

830
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,760
can talk about it over dinner.
And it comes up again, because,

831
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,040
you know, what's beauty about
having teenage sons who think

832
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,160
about stuff is they'll bring
this stuff up a couple days

833
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,880
later sitting like on the couch
or sitting walking the dog or

834
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,200
something.
And it creates a conversation,

835
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,040
right?
And so I'm not discounting any

836
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,120
of this points with a younger
child or when you're older or

837
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,440
things like that.
There's other value in in

838
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:11,720
different times of your life,
right?

839
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,120
But for me, the beauty of seeing
this now with my sons was like,

840
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,480
I feel like they can really
carry those lessons with them

841
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,280
into their own lives having seen
it at this point.

842
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,840
I mean, one lesson that has hit
me as we're talking is like in

843
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:33,600
an age of Internet trolls and
people, not just trolls, but

844
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:39,840
like actually mean spirited
cruelty, people who cruelty.

845
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,880
That's the perfect word.
Like when you watch Aragorn

846
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,040
interacting with the Mouth of
Sauron.

847
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:52,280
Sorry, sorry, David.
The most beautiful thing is you

848
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:57,120
learn what to do when it comes
to cruel evil people online.

849
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:02,240
Like cut them off, like Aragord
just doesn't put up with it.

850
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,880
After after a few minutes of
talking to him, he just says,

851
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,760
you know what?
You're the mouth of Sauron.

852
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,120
You're the mouth of pure evil.
You're just going to pour

853
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,240
cruelty and lies and deception.
You're going to twist the truth

854
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:17,520
to make it worse for us.
And and you're just going to try

855
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,600
to twist the knife into my heart
further.

856
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,320
And there's no, you're not a
friend who's giving me, you

857
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,240
know, a hard reality check
lovingly.

858
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:30,200
It's like, no, this is just evil
trying to worm its way into my

859
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,560
head.
What's the response to that?

860
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,800
Cut it off.
Get off get off Twitter.

861
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,040
If a person is pouring malice
and darkness into you, maybe a

862
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,760
healthy boundary is in is is
needed.

863
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,040
And so, Zach, I'm with you, man.
There.

864
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:51,760
This movie, even a scene that is
only in the extended edition, is

865
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,400
chock full of like, really
important life lessons that we

866
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,040
can hold on to.
And even talking about there's

867
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,440
always a path back, like whether
you're Theoden, who's being

868
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:07,120
possessed, Yeah, but still
making decisions possessed, like

869
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,280
there's still a path back.
Even Wormwood, Gandalf tries to

870
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,360
get him down his path back.
Like there's always, you know, I

871
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,720
mean, I think what's
interesting, not to backtrack,

872
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:21,280
but what's interesting that
Jackson and the screenwriters

873
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,240
pulled out was the depth of the
elves and the books.

874
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,640
And they're sort of because
they're like the the whole helm

875
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,920
steep thing in two towers,
right?

876
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,360
Like the elves show up and kind
of they don't save the day, but

877
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,280
they helped save the day.
I mean, Gandalf showing up with

878
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,240
the rowing save the day.
But you know what I mean?

879
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:39,760
That's not in the books at all.
Like in the books, the elves are

880
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,080
off fighting orcs in what is it
Minnes Moria or whatever, like

881
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,160
at a completely different place,
fighting their own, doing their

882
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:52,400
own thing entirely.
But they're still like adding to

883
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,200
it.
But it made more sense to put it

884
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,240
all into one.
But the point being is, like,

885
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,280
everybody has their own journey
to take is what I'm getting at.

886
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,800
And I think it's important
lesson learned.

887
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,240
It's like, yeah, maybe, you
know, Elrond's journey is not

888
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,000
this.
He has to realize it's not the

889
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,160
same as his daughter's journey.
And no matter what he wants, she

890
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:13,720
has to take her own journey,
right?

891
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,840
The the, the crux of the story
in the film between the father

892
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,600
and the daughter is letting them
find their own path and then

893
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,640
then fully embracing it and
being happy that they found

894
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,240
their path.
Because you see with Elrond,

895
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:33,600
when it's when he's, you know,
when they're at the top of when

896
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,280
they're crowning the king at the
end, like he's happy his

897
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,960
daughter has found her path,
right?

898
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,840
Like he's smiling.
He's truly, you know, joyful.

899
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,680
And then Viggo Mortensen just
sticks his tongue right down her

900
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,400
throat.
It's like F you Elrond, she's

901
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,040
mine now.
I think he earned lots of point.

902
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,800
Lots of tongue and and that.
Yeah, for sure he did.

903
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,880
Dude, boy, and you.
Never me the the he goes an

904
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,920
artist man, he's an artist.
He's committed to the bit man

905
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,040
for me.
The thing that that this time

906
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,800
around, actually, the last few
times I've seen it and I don't,

907
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,680
I don't know why it never really
stood out to me as a young

908
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,400
person, because I'm following
Frodo's story as a young person,

909
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,920
right.
And, and I think that as the two

910
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,120
towers and the return of the
king go on, you really start to

911
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,720
see Frodo become a secondary
character in in his own story

912
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,480
here.
And, and Aragorn really kind of

913
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,040
takes over both of these movies.
And I think a cynic would say

914
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,920
it's because of the action
scenes.

915
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,960
It's because they wanted it to
look like Braveheart or

916
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,120
whatever.
But I, I really do think that's

917
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,480
purposeful because of what he's
trying to say about the

918
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,960
redemption of man.
And I think that like what you

919
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,600
see, you know, Brad, you keep
bringing up the Mouth of Sauron

920
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,480
scene that gets cut out of the
third movie.

921
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,160
And it's it's essentially they
all decide we haven't heard from

922
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,760
Frodo.
I want to believe that he's

923
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,000
still alive.
It is not looking good.

924
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,800
And even though we have just won
this massive battle at

925
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,880
Ministerith, I think that things
are going to go bad and we need

926
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,960
to make one last stand just to
protect the good in the world

927
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,520
that we can.
And we know that we're going to

928
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,080
go on a suicide mission to the
gates of Mordor because if

929
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,000
Frodo's alive, we have to
distract Sauron and we're all

930
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,120
going to die.
And they go into this battle

931
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,960
knowing we are all going to die.
And for some reason, I don't

932
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,720
know why that was lost on me as
a 13 year old, But there's just

933
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:23,880
something about the amount of
times in the 2nd and 3rd movies

934
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:26,760
that characters will say
something like tree beard,

935
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,280
that's like, it is likely that
we go to our doom and everyone's

936
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,600
just like, I'm probably going to
die and I'm going to do it

937
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,960
anyway.
And I think that that Mouth of

938
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,560
Sauron scene really undercuts
that last moment you get with

939
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:44,840
Aragorn where like he has
already committed to a suicide

940
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,000
mission.
The gates of Mordor open.

941
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,000
Sauron fixes his eye on him and
tempts him like Jesus in the

942
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,240
last, in the last moment, like
the last temptation of Christ,

943
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:01,520
right.
And in that moment, he's offered

944
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,040
the world before him, like Jesus
going up on the mountain, right,

945
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,080
and Satan showing him the
kingdoms of the world to turn

946
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:14,080
around with that tear in his eye
and say for Frodo, it is an

947
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,720
unbelievable moment.
And I think it is undercut by

948
00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:20,320
that mouth of Sauron thing.
Because if you see him reject

949
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,640
Sauron there, then to see him
reject Sauron 30 seconds later,

950
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,480
it doesn't quite hit the way
that it does before, you know,

951
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,840
And that's just personally me.
But I think that seeing Aragorn

952
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,120
not just as like this king who's
coming into his coronation or

953
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:40,040
like, you know, living into his
destiny, but seeing Aragorn as

954
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,280
representative of all mankind
and how we are supposed to be

955
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,640
able to overcome temptation,
even if it means our own death

956
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,800
in the process of it.
That's that's the most powerful

957
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,800
storyline in this whole thing to
me for like by a lot, Brad.

958
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:59,760
And even I, I was struck by the
coronation scene that you see

959
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:06,760
this like hyper masculine
warrior king who also is singing

960
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:12,360
to his, his city.
Like the first thing he does, he

961
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,760
turns around, he's got his hand
on his sword, he's got this

962
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,960
crown on.
And he starts singing this

963
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,280
beautifully mournful song about
everything they've lost.

964
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,920
And then he walks down and to
the lowest of the low, the the

965
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,000
halflings that most Gondorians
have never heard of.

966
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,560
He says you bow to know one and
and their king humbles himself

967
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,120
to bow to emissaries of another
nation that have sacrificed

968
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:44,320
themselves on Gondor's behalf.
Like what an incredible picture

969
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:49,240
of like a self assured,
confident masculinity that I

970
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,360
think we need.
Like yes, he has power.

971
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,760
He fights for what is good.
He will sacrifice himself.

972
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,480
A walk into the face of death.
But he also understands art and

973
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,680
beauty and poetry, and he loves
one woman, and he loves her

974
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,240
faithfully, no matter how much
Miranda Otto throws herself at

975
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:09,920
him.
Guys, I think this is a good

976
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,360
spot for us to take another
break.

977
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,880
I want to get to 1 more call
before we get to that break.

978
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,480
It's our friend Chris Chappinar
from Instagram.

979
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,040
He goes by Whiskey Noobs.
Here's his take on the Lord of

980
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,200
the Rings trilogy.
We'll be back in just a minute

981
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:22,920
on film and whiskey.
What?

982
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,160
Does The Lord of the Rings mean
to me?

983
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,280
Well, at least in terms of the
first time that I viewed it.

984
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,120
I actually did view it as an
adult the first time, I regret

985
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,520
to say that.
But it was with my dad and my

986
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,320
brother-in-law and we watched
them all in one day.

987
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,240
It was over the holidays.
We survived off Christmas

988
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,440
cookies in the basement just
watching the movies.

989
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,280
So that was a lot of fun.
Very nostalgic, very sentimental

990
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,200
value for me.
But more practically, I guess I

991
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,840
think that the movies really
hold up in terms of their

992
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:56,040
practical effects, the makeup,
and I'd even say the CGI is not

993
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,400
terrible.
There's a couple scenes where

994
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,520
you're definitely like, what's
going on here, but I don't know.

995
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,800
I mean, these days people are
cranking out CGI so fast that

996
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,640
it's just not great anyhow.
So it holds.

997
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,560
Up pretty well I would say.
I also think just like

998
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,600
culturally, I mean obviously
they are some of the most epic

999
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,600
movies ever made, maybe the most
epic trilogy ever made.

1000
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,520
You can sit down.
You could watch all three in one

1001
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,200
sitting, assuming you had the
time and it wouldn't feel like 3

1002
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,640
distinct movies like you.
It would feel like 1 storyline.

1003
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,880
But at the same time, you can
watch them individually and

1004
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,920
you'd like you feel like you
watched a movie.

1005
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,040
I think that is just fantastic
in terms of the storytelling.

1006
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,760
And then all of the symbolism,
all of the this obviously comes

1007
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,560
from the books, but all the
symbolism in the book with the

1008
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,680
returning king in the
resurrection of Gandalf, things

1009
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,720
like that.
Very interesting symbolism at

1010
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,680
which as a Christian, I greatly
appreciate.

1011
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,600
And the last thing that I would
say is how iconic that there are

1012
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,760
still so many pop culture
references to it today.

1013
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,320
My favorite that at least has
only been recent on my for you

1014
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,400
page.
I like TikTok and Instagram is

1015
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,880
people like really, really
exaggerating.

1016
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:08,400
The entire group of friends
pauses the movie to say, OK,

1017
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,640
right there.
The scream was real because

1018
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,200
Viggo Mortensen kicked the
helmet and broke his toe.

1019
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,040
He wasn't supposed to kick it.
I love like that's still to this

1020
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,320
day, that's still like such a
cult classic that people are are

1021
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,840
still really, I don't know,
making new content about it,

1022
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,840
making new trends about it.
Like I saw it as an actual

1023
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:26,920
trend.
I thought that was really

1024
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,000
interesting as well.
So for me, one of the most epic

1025
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,040
trilogy's ever made definitely
still holds up.

1026
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,440
The only scene I forgot I wanted
to mention this.

1027
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,600
The only scene that doesn't
totally hold up for me, or I

1028
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,320
should say series of scenes is
every once in a while the elf

1029
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:47,040
scenes are like a little too
trying hard to seem magical to

1030
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,280
me.
They like pull me out.

1031
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:53,560
They're like so extremely
whimsical and lofty that they

1032
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,240
kind of pull me out of the movie
a little bit.

1033
00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:57,400
But other than that, I mean, I
just still, I think they're

1034
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,400
phenomenal movies and I would I
would watch them again tomorrow.

1035
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,400
And now I might have to, I might
have just talked myself into it.

1036
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:11,360
Cheers.
All right, we're back talking

1037
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,600
about the Lord of the Rings
trilogy, guys.

1038
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,520
It's almost time to get out of
here for the day.

1039
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,040
I do want to talk a little bit
about the cultural, the lasting

1040
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,280
cultural legacy of these movies.
I mean, obviously they all gross

1041
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,080
a billion dollars at a time when
movies did not gross a billion

1042
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,360
dollars.
It was essentially Titanic and

1043
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,720
then these movies.
And that was that was it, man.

1044
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,280
And so the, the lasting impact
of the box office from these

1045
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,880
movies is huge.
You get Return of the King

1046
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:40,840
winning 13 Academy Awards,
right?

1047
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,600
Like, or was it 11?
I can't remember.

1048
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,920
But it was in for 11.
It it was 11 for 11, a clean

1049
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,000
sweep.
This it you know, they honored

1050
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,440
the trilogy with the return of
the King.

1051
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,000
And so you've got the Oscar gold
to go with the box office gold.

1052
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,840
But then there's something about
the way that these movies.

1053
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,040
Don't forget about the
merchandising gold.

1054
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,120
Yes, that was another billion
dollars in merchandising.

1055
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,120
Well, and it continues on,
right?

1056
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,120
And now you've got like a whole
cottage industry of like these

1057
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,160
these guys are going to comic
cons every year.

1058
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,040
And just like that's what they
do now.

1059
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,960
But there's something about the
way that these captured a a

1060
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,640
generation of people, you know,
millennials, especially in a way

1061
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,160
that, like, we've seen the Harry
Potter fandom fall off over the

1062
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:29,120
last 10 years with, you know,
people rowing with JK Rowling

1063
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,680
and people just kind of falling
off of the way those books are

1064
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,800
written and what they're about
and getting turned off by the

1065
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,080
fantastic beasts, whatever The
Lord of the Rings.

1066
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,840
I think it helps that you've got
the Tolkien of it all behind it.

1067
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,480
That will never really get old.
But these movies in particular

1068
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:52,360
just seem to be kind of a last
gasp and the last bastion of a

1069
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:56,320
certain kind of filmmaking that
we don't see anymore.

1070
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,840
And that it really just took a
turn.

1071
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,560
I hate to keep bringing up the
MCU, but like, by the time the

1072
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,400
MCU comes around, it tries to do
what Lord of the Rings did.

1073
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,440
It doesn't do it.
And when, Zach, when you show

1074
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,040
your teenage sons who have seen
the MCU movies what the Lord of

1075
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,720
the Rings movies are, they can
see the difference.

1076
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,640
There's just something ineffable
about you can't even put your

1077
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,320
finger on.
I mean, it's it's the craft,

1078
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,160
yes.
And it's the care and it's the

1079
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,280
love, and it's the attention and
to detail.

1080
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,000
But there's just something about
yes, yes.

1081
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:33,600
Yeah, and I, I mean, I hate to
hate to bring George Lucas into

1082
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,440
this, but this was happening at
the same time as the prequel

1083
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,560
trilogy.
And I, I, my teenage son and I

1084
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,880
went to see Revenge of the Sith
this summer because they had to

1085
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,280
re release.
And that's a way better movie

1086
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,880
than people give it credit for.
And also, I would argue that

1087
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:54,480
prequel trilogy also adheres to
that sort of same storytelling

1088
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,080
vibe.
It's like, here is our story.

1089
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,960
This is how Darth Vader became
Darth Vader.

1090
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,200
This is how Obi Wan became Old
Ben.

1091
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,080
This is how Yoda screwed
everything up and had to go to

1092
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,120
Dagobah.
And this is how a senator from a

1093
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,560
backwater became the Emperor and
the most evil person in the

1094
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,800
universe or the Galaxy.
And that was it.

1095
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:13,880
We're good, we're done, we're
out.

1096
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,960
And that's the same thing with
The Lord of the Rings.

1097
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:20,440
It's like this is how good
triumph over evil and the ring

1098
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,320
was finally destroyed.
That's it, We're out.

1099
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:32,080
And that's I hope to whomever
that James Cameron let's Avatar

1100
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:36,320
rest at 3 movies and we'll look
back at Avatar and be like he

1101
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,000
did 3 and he's out because
Avatar to me is the last.

1102
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,120
If he if he stops, it's the last
breath of that storytelling of

1103
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,440
like we did three.
We're out like we're good.

1104
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:53,880
We've told our story, it's fine.
And you don't like we got to go

1105
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,680
back to that, right?
Like there's like I, yes,

1106
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,080
Marvel's coming out with
Doomsday and that's all the

1107
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,840
teenagers are talking about.
Like I was standing in line in

1108
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,920
the cinema, you know, getting
popcorn, drinks or whatever.

1109
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:10,000
And I must have heard thirty
kids talking about Doomsday and

1110
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,320
how excited they are that movie
is going to make a trillion

1111
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:18,240
dollars like, because people are
already just like crazy excited

1112
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:19,440
about it.
Like I haven't heard anything

1113
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,760
like that since Phantom Menace
really.

1114
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,560
So we're we're beyond it now,
though.

1115
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,360
So it's sort of a thing like
we're in a just in a different

1116
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,760
era, right?
Streaming exists now, you know,

1117
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,480
film like the, you know, it's
sort of with AI coming in to

1118
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,440
fill in with CGI.
It's just a different world,

1119
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,320
right.
And I kind of feel like, and

1120
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,920
this is a very cliched thing to
say, but they learned the long

1121
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,320
the wrong lessons from the Star
Wars prequels.

1122
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,400
They learned the wrong lessons
from the Lord of the Rings

1123
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,800
trilogy because we have the
hobbits.

1124
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,200
And I'm kind of devastated that
Peter Jackson and that whole

1125
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:56,000
crew spent a decade making those
movies instead of anything else.

1126
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,120
And like, they tried to look
what they learned the wrong

1127
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,560
lessons.
And they made Narnia, which has

1128
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:06,320
some merit but is a shitty
franchise at the end of the day.

1129
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:09,840
And now it's being remade by
someone who I'm almost positive

1130
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,840
does not understand those books
at all.

1131
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,400
Listen, my my biggest argument
against the existence of The

1132
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:21,760
Hobbit movies is Peter Jackson's
King Kong, which I freaking love

1133
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,880
that movie.
It's big and messy and flawed

1134
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,360
and way too long.
But it's, it's so earnest and

1135
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,240
it's captures the same
earnestness of The Lord of the

1136
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,040
Rings.
And it doesn't feel hollow, and

1137
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,680
it doesn't feel cynical and it
doesn't feel like a cash grab.

1138
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,080
You know what?
All these Movies Now feel like.

1139
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,960
And you know how I think picked
up that mantle and I don't like

1140
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,200
his movies at all.
This is sort of director where I

1141
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,600
cannot vibe with his movies or
the the message of them, but I

1142
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,920
feel like I would get on with
him as a person super well as

1143
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:54,360
Guillermo del Toro.
I do not like the message of his

1144
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,560
films at all.
I think they're very, they're

1145
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:59,240
kind of dangerous in a weird way
where it's like, oh, people are

1146
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:04,200
weird, It's OK, whatever, dude.
It's like, yeah, but like, we're

1147
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,520
still a society man.
Yeah.

1148
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,240
And you can't, you can't go
around having sex with all the

1149
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,280
fish.
And but, but not to get too deep

1150
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,360
into del Toro, but at least he's
taking swings.

1151
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,640
At least he's doing something
that he truly loves.

1152
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:22,720
And with Peter Jackson, you can
tell every second of film up on

1153
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,560
that screen.
He is in love with what he is

1154
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,440
doing every second.
And that came through watching

1155
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,240
it again, you know, 25 years
later from when I first saw

1156
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,240
these films in the cinema.
The reason I got into it because

1157
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,520
I saw Fellowship was like, holy
shit, this is this is a movie.

1158
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,400
I got to see a movie on the
cinema.

1159
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,880
That's my generations, like
2001, my generations Back to the

1160
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,960
future, my generation's
godfather.

1161
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,000
And I got to be there.
And now I read the books and I,

1162
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,920
you know, I went to the next one
to see it on the opening

1163
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:56,240
weekend.
I went to the next one to see it

1164
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,560
on opening weekend and I take my
children to it because it that

1165
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:03,760
love that Peter Jackson has was
there and I believe in Bob.

1166
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,560
You're right, that love, when I
saw King Kong, that love was

1167
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:13,560
still there and then it was just
like, OK, and I Brad, correct me

1168
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:19,000
if I'm wrong, but Peter Jackson
said in his intro to Return of

1169
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,200
the King, he was talking about
people that they've lost.

1170
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,640
And one of the people he's lost
is his cinematographer.

1171
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:25,960
And he lost him like 15 years
ago.

1172
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,520
And he straight up says the
reason I have not done a a

1173
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,480
fiction movie or a drama movie
is because I don't want to work

1174
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,320
with anyone else.
And so I've made these two

1175
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,960
documentaries for the last 12
years because I don't want to

1176
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:39,840
work with anyone else.
And that a part of him died with

1177
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,840
his cinematographer.
And that's beautiful that that

1178
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:51,920
love is so deep, but also tragic
because man, Peter Jackson, just

1179
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:54,320
like somebody just gave him a
blank check and let him do

1180
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,000
whatever he wants.
That's not a God damn talking

1181
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,400
movie, like, yeah, you know what
I mean?

1182
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:05,000
Just let him do what he wants,
like which he has been doing.

1183
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,320
I mean, that World War One
documentary and Get Back

1184
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,040
documentary are brilliant in
their own ways and I'm glad they

1185
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,280
exist.
I'm glad he did that.

1186
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,000
But it was just so, I mean, I
teared up when he said that

1187
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,920
because that's so heart
wrenching.

1188
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:21,680
Well, I think, I think what
you're speaking to Zach is the

1189
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:27,080
reality that humans are meant to
create and we are meant to

1190
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:31,000
partake and love and love the
things that we create.

1191
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,160
And we're meant to partake in
the things that other people

1192
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:38,040
create and appreciate the love
that has been poured into it.

1193
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,920
We we recognize it on an innate
level.

1194
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:45,440
And when you have these cash
grab movies, the reason they're

1195
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,160
a cash grab is because it's
nothing new.

1196
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:53,280
You're not adding to the world
in any meaningful way.

1197
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:58,440
Like I would say that the most
beautiful films in history added

1198
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,560
to the human experience.
They didn't just make money.

1199
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:07,000
And that's why Lord of the Rings
stands out for me is it is at

1200
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:12,240
the pinnacle of a group of
people who, by all accounts of

1201
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,240
things sat around for three
years making these movies in

1202
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,760
really difficult circumstances
and went through so much

1203
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,320
together as a team.
And they they produced this

1204
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,040
thing of beauty.
That was something that was

1205
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:31,560
already a thing of beauty that
somebody spent 30 to 40 years of

1206
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:35,240
his life trying to write and
create and, and the languages

1207
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:38,800
that Tolkien made.
And, and, and I think that's why

1208
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,120
I don't always have an issue
seeing that somebody is remaking

1209
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:48,360
something or bringing it back.
I just want to see them capture

1210
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,520
the heart of what made the
original so great.

1211
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:57,840
And it's so rare to see that in
a highly corporatized world.

1212
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,800
It just really doesn't happen
that often.

1213
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,920
And I.
Have a question like Bob, you

1214
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,240
mentioned, like you know, you
had a sort of like it clicked in

1215
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,920
for you sort of later as you
grew up in life, like the the

1216
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:11,880
movies meetings clicked in a
little bit more for you.

1217
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,840
Like do you find like you know,
I talk about myself, but you

1218
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,520
know, you guys have small kids
and you're sort of introducing

1219
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:25,120
movies to them in general.
Do you find you, do you choose

1220
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:31,080
movies for a message or do you
choose it for just

1221
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,000
entertainment?
Because let's be fair, there is

1222
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,800
just entertainment, right?
Like we do sometimes just need

1223
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,720
to click off.
But that do you find that

1224
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:43,640
there's it's the same reason why
we what books we read to our

1225
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:45,040
kids to put them to sleep,
right?

1226
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,360
Like we don't just pick up any
book and start reading it to

1227
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:48,840
them.
You know what I mean?

1228
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:55,520
And like how then, does a movie
like this inform when you want

1229
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,080
your kids to Start learning
these messages?

1230
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,560
You know, it's funny, like I so
for me watching these movies

1231
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:07,440
with my, my oldest son, he he's
got a really sweet like spirit

1232
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,680
and, and is really sensitive.
And so like he was, he was like

1233
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,240
legitimately scared for a lot of
these movies and he watched them

1234
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,120
all cuddled up next to me and it
was, it was nice to have that

1235
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,760
moment in general.
But when he gets nervous, he

1236
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,080
like he tries to deflect and
he'll ask a lot of questions

1237
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,399
just to distract him from
whatever is making him nervous.

1238
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:30,120
And so as as the finale of
Return of the King is happening,

1239
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,560
like he's on pins and needles,
man, like he doesn't know what's

1240
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:34,319
going to happen.
And so I have to keep an.

1241
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:37,520
Amazing feeling God.
You got to stop talking, you got

1242
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:41,439
to watch the movie.
But to answer your question,

1243
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,080
like it's a mix for me.
Like sometimes I'll just let

1244
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,920
them pick a movie and they'll
pick the freaking dog man movie

1245
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,680
and I have to watch dog man and
like, but it's important that

1246
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,640
they be able to pick a movie.
And sometimes we watch a movie

1247
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,479
like Lord of the Rings where
like part of the reason that I

1248
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,399
tell my son that he has to stop
talking is because I know my

1249
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:02,560
friends, you bow to no one is
about to happen in 10 seconds.

1250
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,560
And he's talking about how gross
it was to see Aragorn kiss

1251
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,640
Arwen.
And I'm like, no, no, no, like,

1252
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:12,600
please, please watch this movie.
Because for me, I one of one of

1253
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:16,560
the big things for me growing up
was like my dad was like a, a

1254
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,800
tough guy and projected himself
like a tough guy.

1255
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,200
And I always heard stories about
him getting in bar fights and

1256
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:22,720
stuff.
And.

1257
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,720
Keeping strong.
We'd watch movies together and

1258
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,840
he would like, he'd cry at the
end of a movie and he couldn't

1259
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,240
help himself to cry at like, the
end of Saving Private Ryan or

1260
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,960
whatever.
And like, he never apologized

1261
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,800
for that.
And it was really meaningful to

1262
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:38,680
me that I got to see from my dad
that, like, you can cry and

1263
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,840
that's OK.
And that sounds stupid to say,

1264
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,520
but like, that's, you know,
we're all guys.

1265
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,840
Like, we've seen that.
And so it's important to me to

1266
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,240
be able to show him movies where
he can see that, at least to his

1267
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,640
dad, the message of this movie
is so resonant that it brings

1268
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,520
him to tears.
And I think for Lord of the

1269
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,560
Rings, it's like this is
everything I want to communicate

1270
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,600
to my kid about what it means to
be good in the world and what to

1271
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,720
stand up for and what we want to
preserve about the world.

1272
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,800
And maybe he was too young to
watch these, but I hope that he

1273
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,480
wasn't too young to like to get
that message from me.

1274
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:17,080
Just watched Coco.
We believe me, Sir, we've done

1275
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,280
that too.
We're talking about cry.

1276
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,080
No, it's funny because.
That yeah, I would say that to

1277
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,720
answer your question for me, you
know, my, my oldest is five and

1278
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,360
she like gets nervous when
Daniel Tiger is like angry.

1279
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,200
So we're not quite on the movies
yet.

1280
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,840
I have like a whole, partially
because my wife and I are

1281
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:42,160
planning on homeschooling.
I have like a whole, I haven't

1282
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,880
made the spreadsheet yet, but
I'm going to of like, all right,

1283
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:51,800
when we do World War 2 in
history, when she's 141516,

1284
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:55,080
we're going to watch The Pianist
and we're going to watch

1285
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,600
Schindler's List and we're going
to like, we're going to watch

1286
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,120
Baby Private Ryan.
It's the superior film.

1287
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,520
Sure, but we're like, we're
going to watch World War 2

1288
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,920
movies and and we're going to
experience it.

1289
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:13,480
Because I do think that the
beauty of cinema is that when,

1290
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:19,400
when movies are at their best,
it's when it can evoke in you

1291
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,720
the emotions and feelings of the
characters on screen, regardless

1292
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,080
of whether you've ever been
through what they're going

1293
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,440
through.
And I think that it, it gives

1294
01:11:30,440 --> 01:11:36,200
you an empathy for so many
things that have happened to

1295
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:40,360
humans.
And so I like, I have this whole

1296
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:45,080
plan of like, yeah, when when we
study different things, we are

1297
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,760
going to watch all these
different movies so that it

1298
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:52,080
clicks and it makes the world
come to life in a meaningful

1299
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,480
way.
And I, I can't wait, dude.

1300
01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:59,200
I am like so excited for that.
So I've I've gotten to the age

1301
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,280
then in my life because I'm I've
been a cinephile my whole life.

1302
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:07,480
My come, my grandfather was my
father was my mother was like I

1303
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:11,920
grew.
I grew up in the movies and I

1304
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,680
now cry like watching a film
that's just beautiful to watch

1305
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,400
in the cinema.
My son at one point turned on.

1306
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:20,840
He's like, why are you crying
now?

1307
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:24,280
I'm like, it's just the movie is
amazing.

1308
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:28,760
Like I'm yes, you're watching
something that just is so rarely

1309
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:34,960
received now that we so rarely
get like the the the Mubakil

1310
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,600
scene in return of the King.
When when they come stomping in

1311
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:41,960
and this they're bellowing and
like it cuts to the guys driving

1312
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:46,960
them and you just get this, this
scene that's just like you will

1313
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,240
never see this again sort of
thing, right?

1314
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,520
And it's just like it moves me
to tears because it's just like

1315
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,000
the beauty of I mean, I had like
Brad, you said, like, you know,

1316
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,320
you hear the Nazcool sound move.
And I was thinking the same

1317
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,240
thing when Theoden's like
hitting this the Spears as he's

1318
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,760
giving his speech and you hear
it move across the room and

1319
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:05,560
around.
You screaming death.

1320
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,160
Yeah.
And it's just like those things

1321
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:11,160
where, you know, even in Back to
the Future, when the car

1322
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,520
screeches, you hear it
screeching across the room,

1323
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:16,800
right.
And it's sort of, you know,

1324
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,720
there's something just so
beautiful about that in theater,

1325
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,200
in cinema experience where, you
know, I'm very much that film

1326
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:25,760
mergers.
Like you have to like, oh, you

1327
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,640
didn't like the movie because
you watched it on your computer.

1328
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:29,480
Well, go fuck yourself.
Like, go watch it in the cinema

1329
01:13:29,480 --> 01:13:30,600
until you don't like it.
You know, I'm.

1330
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,400
I'm literally that guy.
And so like I and I've always

1331
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:39,000
devoted a large amount of my
time and money to going to see

1332
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,480
films, whether they're new or
old or what have you.

1333
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:45,000
That's just my way my brains
wired, if you will.

1334
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:52,040
And so seeing these films in the
cinema again, first time

1335
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:54,240
extended edition.
But seeing it again, having the

1336
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,960
experience of sitting next to my
son's while doing so and seeing

1337
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,840
their reactions, you know, in
the same because you know, you

1338
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,480
look over to like, like you
said, you're like, you're always

1339
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:05,040
looking over to see like what
they're thinking you're doing.

1340
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,000
And, you know, they're laughing
and they're, you know, they, you

1341
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,200
see them, they're trying not to
be emotional because they're

1342
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,240
teenage boys and they're not
going to be national, you know,

1343
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:14,040
and.
And Zach?

1344
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:18,720
Over here, just like.
Oh yeah, waterfall like but like

1345
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,640
also.
Sons, don't you see the giant

1346
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,320
elephants?
Yeah, but also like it's also

1347
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:26,520
outside the experience.
So we were like, when we're

1348
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,200
getting concessions, probably
talking a lot of school, my son,

1349
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:30,840
but he doesn't listen to this,
so he's not going to hear it.

1350
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,640
But evidently, like there was
like this group of girls who

1351
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,560
knew my older son and were like
kind of flirting with them.

1352
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,960
And then I'm listening to him
and his younger brother and his

1353
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:40,280
younger brother be like, I'll
hook it up, man.

1354
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:41,320
I'll get her phone number for
you.

1355
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,920
Like I'll, you know, and like,
they're having a theater

1356
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:45,760
experience, you know what I
mean?

1357
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,440
They're like having a social
experience.

1358
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,480
Dude, it's like going to the
County Fair.

1359
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:54,160
As a. 15 year.
Old and I'm not a I'm not a

1360
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:56,440
Debbie Downer thing at all.
We're going to lose movie

1361
01:14:56,440 --> 01:14:57,600
theaters.
I don't think we're ever going

1362
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:02,320
to lose movie theaters, but also
like those experiences make the

1363
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:04,960
film even more important to you
when you have.

1364
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,280
One 100%.
And I love that they can have

1365
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:12,280
that, you know, and I sort of.
Guys, I it's crazy how much this

1366
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:15,080
conversation is reflecting
Return of the King because we

1367
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:17,400
just reached our emotional
climax and yet we still have

1368
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:19,760
more things to talk about.
We haven't even nipped yet.

1369
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:21,440
Come on, we've got another full
ending.

1370
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:24,520
To do, let's take one more quick
break and then we'll round out

1371
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:32,320
this episode.
All right, we're talking about

1372
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,440
the Lord of the Rings trilogy
and it's time for us to kind of

1373
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:37,720
wind down guys.
And I think one of the good ways

1374
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,640
to do that is to spend maybe 30
seconds to 60 seconds a piece

1375
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,320
offering any small critiques we
have on on the trilogy as a

1376
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,280
whole.
I really don't have anything

1377
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,080
else to say.
Like I said, I I think that the,

1378
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,720
the tonal whiplash when you're
watching them as a marathon kind

1379
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,520
of gets to you a little bit.
I do think, Brad, that this time

1380
01:15:55,520 --> 01:16:00,200
through, unfortunately, like I
think on on 2 Towers, I went

1381
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,520
from A10 to a nine and a half.
And I think from on Return to

1382
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,640
the King, I went from A10 to a
nine and a half and fellowship

1383
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,040
is kind of still at a 9 1/2.
So all these movies are like 9

1384
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,760
and a halfs for me.
But like the totality of these

1385
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,800
films is still a 10.
Like the experience that they

1386
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,160
draw out of you is still kind of
unparalleled for me.

1387
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,560
You know, guys, I'll, I'll, I'll
give you the floor.

1388
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,880
If you have anything, any
nitpicks you want to get out

1389
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,520
just for the sake of absolving
your your souls here, go for it.

1390
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,440
I think I said it with like 2
Towers was a little more filler

1391
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:34,040
this time around especially, and
I think part of that was a CGI

1392
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:35,400
kind of takes you out of it a
bit.

1393
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:39,600
But overall, I mean, I think I
texted you guys this like

1394
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:44,160
Fellowship of the Rings for me
is like a million out of 10.

1395
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,040
That's a film, yeah.
Two Towers, yeah, 9 out of 10.

1396
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,600
But then return man, like that
movie was so much better on this

1397
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:56,800
viewing that like I I had saw
from a whole new POV and it was

1398
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:00,960
just, I don't know, I thought it
was again, 1,000,000 out of 10

1399
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:02,280
as well.
It was just one of those movies

1400
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,080
where like there's nothing else
like it, right?

1401
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,800
Like they're just they're just
saying and it's and I love it.

1402
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:11,280
And there are, of course, a
little nitpicky things like like

1403
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,840
I said, Gollum looks shittier in
two towers than he doesn't

1404
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,560
return to the king or whatever.
Who cares?

1405
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:22,240
Yeah, I mean, I I this time
through specifically with return

1406
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:28,080
of the King, I was blown away by
Bernard Hill as King Theoden.

1407
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:33,600
I like I he he never stuck out
to me as a kid when I watched

1408
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:35,320
them.
Like he's cool, don't get me

1409
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:38,200
wrong, but death the the whole
speech awesome.

1410
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:45,280
But this time through I his
performance was light years.

1411
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,920
One of the best performances.
And honestly, it's it's the only

1412
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,840
real saving grace for Theoden,
because I still struggle with

1413
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,200
the character of Theoden because
Theoden is constantly like,

1414
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,600
yeah, I mean, it's the folly of
man a little bit that he's, you

1415
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,080
know, he's like he's possessed
and then he's freed and then

1416
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:05,120
he's mourning his son and then
he's heroic and then he's a punk

1417
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,200
bitch for a while.
And it's like, Theoden, what the

1418
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,360
hell?
Like he and he's constantly just

1419
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,840
like, why can't we just die?
Just let me ride out in battle

1420
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,040
and die.
And then it's the same thing in

1421
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,720
Return to the King.
He's like, we're never going to

1422
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:18,680
win.
Shut the fuck up, dude.

1423
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:21,240
Like, go out there and defend
your people.

1424
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:25,320
But then he finally gets to the
moment where it's like he's

1425
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,880
laying there on his deathbed,
you know, for lack of a better

1426
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,680
term.
And like, it clicks for him and

1427
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:35,240
he says, like, I'm going now to
the halls of my father's and he,

1428
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:37,160
you know, forgive me if I don't
get the quote exactly right.

1429
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:41,080
But he's like, in whose presence
I will not no longer be ashamed.

1430
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,840
And it's like, oh, man, like
that you did it that like, well

1431
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:49,080
done, good and faithful servant,
like go into the presence of

1432
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:51,520
your father's man.
It's such a good performance.

1433
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,920
And I'm so glad you brought it
up because my next question was

1434
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:57,600
going to be like, let's do 30
seconds on a performance this

1435
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,520
time around.
And for me, it was Miranda Otto

1436
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:05,880
who is like, especially in
return, it is a physically

1437
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:09,560
demanding role.
It's an emotionally, it's an

1438
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:13,360
emotionally demanding role.
Watching her grieve Theoden,

1439
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:19,160
watching her try to comfort Mary
while she's shaking herself, you

1440
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,320
know, and then to to take this
kind of nothing burger of like a

1441
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:26,560
maybe love interest for Aragorn
and really round it into a

1442
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,920
heroine.
I mean, first of all, she's 10

1443
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,680
times better of an actress than
Liv Tyler is as Arwyn.

1444
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:35,720
No offense, Liv Tyler, I'm
sorry, but like it watching this

1445
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:36,920
time around.
I was.

1446
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,560
I'm like, Miranda Otto deserved
more of a career after this

1447
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:44,640
because she's like in the
stratosphere for me of people in

1448
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:46,840
this film.
She's exceptionally good.

1449
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:50,480
My wife and I always joke about
Liv Tyler that like Arwyn was

1450
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:54,880
the perfect role for her because
and I had not really seen her in

1451
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,360
many other movies and I don't
remember what we watched, but

1452
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,480
she was in something else.
And I was like, oh, she still

1453
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:05,400
does her elf voice.
She she talks like this with

1454
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:08,640
everything she says.
I'm like, oh, that's perfect for

1455
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:13,800
like this ethereal like eternal
elf, great voice.

1456
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,160
And then I was like, oh, that's
just her normal acting voice.

1457
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:22,280
She's not a good actress.
Great for Arwin, Miranda, Otto.

1458
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:24,960
Miranda, Otto.
Oh my gosh, dude.

1459
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:29,080
I also one piece from the
extended edition that I like the

1460
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:33,600
edition was and like you can
tell they're trying to put it in

1461
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,880
there because it's core to the
book, but it doesn't need to be

1462
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:40,760
in there for the theatrical cut
is when Aragorn is in the houses

1463
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:44,240
of healing, helping to heal
Miranda Otto.

1464
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:48,000
And you know, there's like her
and Faramir fall in love in the

1465
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,120
book and in the extended
edition, which I think is great.

1466
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:56,160
But just the just the fact that
you get to see Aragorn has the

1467
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:58,480
hands of a king and the hands of
a king are the hands of a

1468
01:20:58,480 --> 01:21:01,080
healer.
Like I like just that little

1469
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,920
addition for 40 seconds I
thought was such a great

1470
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:10,120
addition for his character to
fully round out an incredible

1471
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:11,760
character.
Yeah, I thought that.

1472
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:13,120
I thought that was in the
theatrical.

1473
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,960
I didn't realize that was an
extended scene.

1474
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:16,480
OK.
Yeah.

1475
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,960
Yeah, because it's so crucial.
Like it's, it's, it's so.

1476
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,000
Crucial to who he is as a
character.

1477
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,360
I have to give it up to Sean
Astin, man, I was just going to

1478
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,240
say, man, he's the best
performance in any of these

1479
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:30,880
movies.
He's just one off at him.

1480
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,120
Yes, Yep.
Yes, I don't.

1481
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,480
Know, like, especially the thing
about Return of the King is like

1482
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:40,600
I, I just wonder, like the
filming, you know, because I

1483
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:43,360
know they filmed them roughly in
chronological order and by the

1484
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,720
time you get to return to the
King, oh, did they film them out

1485
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:47,640
of order?
No, so Peter Jackson tells a

1486
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:53,240
story where he's up filming
Gandalf and Bilbo in Fellowship

1487
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:57,280
in the beginning and runs down
the hill to film Sam coming home

1488
01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:59,720
at the end end to his family
Shit.

1489
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,840
OK, well, that's interesting
because like, you know, they

1490
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:07,120
they'd so perfectly capture the
like, we haven't had sleep in

1491
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:08,760
weeks.
We're all paranoid.

1492
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:11,880
Everybody's like half crying.
Their eyes are red and they're

1493
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,320
on the verge of tears the entire
movie, you know, especially him

1494
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:19,960
and and Frodo and and I think
that like to be in that sort of

1495
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,200
emotional hysterics throughout
the entire movie.

1496
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,280
The way Sam is, it's a really
challenging performance.

1497
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:29,320
And then it's nothing, you know,
not to say anything about Elijah

1498
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,000
Wood as Frodo.
I think that he's very good.

1499
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:35,600
I also think Frodo's kind of
like kind of a lame character to

1500
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:36,760
have.
Like if you're going to, if

1501
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:39,040
someone offered you any
character in Lord of the Rings

1502
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:42,280
to play, like I'm not going to
play Frodo, I'm going to play

1503
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:44,000
Sam.
Like Sam's the better character.

1504
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:46,640
Because Frodo has a single beat.
Like Frodo has a single beat.

1505
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:50,320
He's the ring bearer.
He can only go down and that's

1506
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:52,400
it.
Like he can only go down and

1507
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:53,840
come back.
Like there's no, there's nothing

1508
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:55,280
else there.
Like he doesn't have to carry

1509
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:57,960
anybody.
He's has to carry a ring and

1510
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:00,560
argue, you know?
It's just a ring, Frodo.

1511
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:01,320
Come on, bro.
Yeah.

1512
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:03,880
No, bro.
No, but like Sam, like Sean

1513
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,360
Astin, I mean, and of course we
all know Sean Astin.

1514
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:09,400
I mean, we're talking about a
child actor from basically

1515
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:10,920
Hollywood royalty.
Like he grew up.

1516
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:14,000
His father was, you know, Gomez
Adams, for God's sakes, and

1517
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,360
blah, blah, blah.
So he knows what he's doing, of

1518
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,040
course, and so does Elijah, what
he's been a child actor,

1519
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:23,720
etcetera, blah, blah, blah.
But there's just something about

1520
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:25,880
his performance that's just
like, how late?

1521
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:28,800
Where are you pulling this from,
man?

1522
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,600
Like, this is just like every,
every.

1523
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:35,400
And to your point, Bob, like
every scene is with him and

1524
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:39,280
Frodo, like everyone, basically.
And those scenes do not work

1525
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:41,320
unless you have Sam.
They're being like, come on,

1526
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:42,760
man.
You know, he's a villain.

1527
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:45,960
Like, come on, dude.
Like, this is like, OK, I mean,

1528
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,360
I know it's cliche now because
it's 25 years later, but it's

1529
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,800
like, if I I can't carry the
ring, I'll carry you like that

1530
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,200
moment.
And he picks him up and starts.

1531
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,600
It's so good, you know?
And so like, and I think we said

1532
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,720
it earlier, like when he's
talking about like, the the

1533
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:03,160
dream of going back to the Shire
to keep Frodo going and the way

1534
01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:06,960
he sells it is just like, he
should have won a goddamn Oscar.

1535
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:08,680
Like, yes.
Like yes.

1536
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:10,520
I well.
And for me, I think a moment.

1537
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:13,720
Performance like that.
He'll have like a big moment

1538
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,720
like when Frodo puts on the ring
inside Mount Doom and you get

1539
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,960
the great shot of him going no.
And then they cut away and they

1540
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,000
cut back to him.
And it's like he's almost like

1541
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:23,600
pleading.
He's just like, no.

1542
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:27,160
Like it's that second beat.
And it's, you know, it's when

1543
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:29,280
they're outside and they're
surrounded by the lava and they

1544
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:32,200
both think they're going to die.
And he starts crying about not

1545
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,120
being able to go back and marry
Rosie.

1546
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:35,280
And it's just like it would have
been.

1547
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:36,120
Hurt.
Oh my God.

1548
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:42,080
Like it's he sells those moments
so much that none of the other

1549
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:46,480
stuff ever seems like overblown
or Comic Relief because he's

1550
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:48,680
it's like it's just such an
earnest character.

1551
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,000
Brad, I keep using that word
that you love to use, but that's

1552
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:55,600
Sean Astin to AT in this movie.
And that's that's the entire

1553
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,040
trilogy.
Like, I'll give one more quick

1554
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:04,680
actor shout out, John Noble as
Laura as Stewart Denethor.

1555
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,120
Oh my God.
I like, I think when I was

1556
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,760
younger, I was a little less
hyped on him.

1557
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:15,960
Dude, I'm telling you, in
theaters when he's yelling at

1558
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:21,080
them to flee, he has the best.
Like he has to have been a

1559
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:25,800
trained stage actor because the
way he projects his voice.

1560
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,680
And it's very Shakespearean.
And it fits.

1561
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:35,160
And I even like comparing his
performance to Theodens.

1562
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,360
I I think that's something I've
realized is that the movie does

1563
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:42,920
a really good job of pairing off
almost every character.

1564
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:46,240
And, you know, on the other side
of Dennithor, you have Theoden,

1565
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:49,920
the king of his nation.
And yes, he is a little, a

1566
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,800
little bit whiny about like what
he wants to do.

1567
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:59,320
I think the key for Theoden is
when he's talking to Eowen

1568
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:04,840
Miranda Otto, when he says like
you're going to be the queen and

1569
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:07,560
you know you're going to ride
back to Eddie Ross and and the

1570
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:13,320
way he tells her defend it with
till your very last, like you

1571
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:19,400
can tell that he knows that the
odds are they're going to lose

1572
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:23,760
at Ministerith and eventually
they're going to come to Eddie

1573
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,400
Ross.
And so he knows that he is

1574
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:31,640
charging her with this dark,
terrible doom of defending a

1575
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:35,200
dying nation, and yet he does it
anyways.

1576
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:40,520
And when you compare that to the
large bravado Shakespearean Lord

1577
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:45,280
Denethor, it makes Theoden's
character the more deep and

1578
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:47,320
meaningful and powerful the
things he does.

1579
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,720
The great thing about Denethor
though, is like how from the

1580
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,360
very beginning Gandalf is like,
I do not have time for this

1581
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,400
shit.
Like, like, he's like, I'm just

1582
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,320
going to kick you in the face
with my horse.

1583
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,400
And when you run out of the room
on fire, I'm just going to be

1584
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,440
like.
And that's the end of that guy.

1585
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:05,880
Like, he literally, like, gives
the eulogy as he's running out

1586
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:10,120
on fire.
So passes den of like, yeah.

1587
01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:13,480
It's.
Also, we haven't talked about

1588
01:27:13,480 --> 01:27:15,160
the cinematography almost at
all.

1589
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:20,360
Tell me that the shot following
him out and seeing him.

1590
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:24,080
Falling off of minister.
And it just keeps zooming out to

1591
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:27,040
the point where his flaming
body, which you think is the

1592
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:30,360
main thing of that scene, just
becomes a pin prick of

1593
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:32,600
nothingness.
And then it zooms back into the

1594
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:35,760
battle and you're like.
The only thing that could have

1595
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,040
made that better is if they cut
to like what's at the bottom of

1596
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,560
that fall and it's the propeller
from Titanic and then he just

1597
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,240
flips off that at the top so
that that would have been.

1598
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,800
In the extended edition they
basically do that with Saruman.

1599
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,680
He gets stabbed.
And he falls down and he falls

1600
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:54,400
on the thing and then it
literally just like it's like a

1601
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:59,400
reverse T2, like his boots are
the last thing you see going

1602
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,000
into the water.
And they're just staring at it

1603
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:05,080
like.
Yeah, let's, let's wind down

1604
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:06,600
today.
I want to do this.

1605
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:08,360
I have two more questions for
you.

1606
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:11,640
They're both pretty quick.
The first one is now that we've

1607
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:15,200
rewatched them, or at least two
of us have, what's your ranking

1608
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:18,600
one through 3 of the Lord of the
Rings films?

1609
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:24,800
Brad, I'll start with you.
I, I have always for a while I

1610
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:29,200
was a 2 towers stand.
I for a long time though, Bob,

1611
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,760
like I've said this to you many
times, fellowships, my favorite.

1612
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:35,520
I think fellowship stands up
there.

1613
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,600
It probably is a recency bias.
I.

1614
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:42,600
I'd probably put two towers in
Return of the King.

1615
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:47,120
Neck and neck, I think.
I think Return of the King is

1616
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:51,320
the sloppiest of the three films
because he's trying to cram in

1617
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:55,200
so much to finish it off.
And you also just have a lot

1618
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,920
more characters that you've been
introduced to.

1619
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:01,280
And he's still introducing new
characters in the third movie

1620
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:05,080
that you're like, OK, I it's a
little sloppy, it's a little

1621
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,600
ragged, but it it's got one of
the greatest battle scenes of

1622
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:10,800
all time in the battle of
Pellinore Fields.

1623
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:15,400
Like, talk about a great scene
of like, the stakes just keep

1624
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,280
getting ratcheted up.
It's like from the moment they

1625
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:22,920
launch those skulls over the top
to the moment of the army of the

1626
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:27,040
dead arriving and saving the
day, it's like something good

1627
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:29,080
happens for the bad guys and
then good happens with the good

1628
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:34,040
guys and the bad guys.
That's a longer answer than you

1629
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:38,280
wanted.
I think Return and two are equal

1630
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:40,000
for me and fellowships my
favorite.

1631
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:42,800
You know what?
This time through, I still think

1632
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:48,760
that The Two Towers has the
greatest hour of any of the 9

1633
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:50,720
hours, 9 1/2 hours of the
theatre.

1634
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,680
I just think that that from the
time Helm's Deep starts to the

1635
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:58,040
end of that movie, I want to
live in the perfection of that

1636
01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:01,600
for the rest of my life.
I think 2 Towers might be the

1637
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:04,160
weakest of the three now, Brad.
And that freaking pisses me off

1638
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:08,280
'cause I've completely switched.
I still think that Fellowship is

1639
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,200
my my personal least favorite of
the three.

1640
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,320
And it's probably the best one
because it's the most cohesive

1641
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:17,160
one.
It's the one that I just vibe

1642
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:18,720
with the least.
I don't, I don't love the

1643
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:21,480
Tolkien language.
I don't like that they don't

1644
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:23,960
they don't really ease the
viewer into that world.

1645
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:27,480
And so it's a steep learning
curve with Fellowship, but it's

1646
01:30:27,480 --> 01:30:29,880
like it's the one that feels the
most like this is what Lord of

1647
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,200
the Rings is.
And then by the third one,

1648
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,600
you've got a lot of like the
dialogue that they're making

1649
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:37,440
character, say, feels very
Hollywood.

1650
01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:40,200
And it feels the least Tolkany
in that first like hour and a

1651
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:43,600
half of the third one.
But then they stick the landing.

1652
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:47,440
And so it's like, I think right
now I'm at 132, which which

1653
01:30:47,440 --> 01:30:51,640
pains me to say, Brad.
Yeah that's wild dude.

1654
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:54,360
What?
What made you switch on 2 towers

1655
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:56,000
overall?
I think.

1656
01:30:56,080 --> 01:31:00,480
I think realizing that like the
first two hours of the Two

1657
01:31:00,480 --> 01:31:03,720
Towers only exist to get you to
Helm's Deep, and there's like

1658
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:07,640
there's very little happening in
Two Towers up until that, like,

1659
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:10,000
you know, you get Candolf coming
back, there are trees.

1660
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:11,720
Talking about saying good
morning.

1661
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:15,520
Like even the even the battle of
let you where they're like

1662
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:19,040
fighting the wargs and then
Aragorn falls off the Cliff and

1663
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:21,360
it's like, Oh no, is he dead?
It's like, no, he's not dead.

1664
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:23,000
Come on, It's the middle of the
second movie.

1665
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:25,720
Like I don't even know this
story and I know he's not dead.

1666
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,600
So I I think it's like.
You know, you get to see his

1667
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,360
horse.
You get to see his horse.

1668
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:34,320
Be a good boy.
You come on, he he does find

1669
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:36,120
him.
So yeah, man, that's where I'm

1670
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:37,560
at.
Zach, what's your ranking right

1671
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:40,880
now?
Yeah, I'm, I'm a 132 guy as

1672
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:42,640
well, I think.
And there you go.

1673
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,280
This is a memory from Scene 2
towers in the cinema.

1674
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:50,400
That scene when they're they're
rushing the film and Gimli's on

1675
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:54,360
the horse and gums up the Lego
loss and Lego loss, like in this

1676
01:31:54,480 --> 01:31:58,960
most terrible CGI of 2002, flips
around the horse and up onto it.

1677
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:02,360
I remember somebody in the
theater being like, oh, come on.

1678
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,360
And be like, pull a giant cigar
out.

1679
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:11,400
Come on.
But watching that again, this

1680
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:14,040
time in Two Towers, it is like,
oh, come on, like what you

1681
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:15,920
doing?
Like you got a new toy and

1682
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:17,160
you're playing with your new
toy.

1683
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:21,320
And for me that's that's the
fault of Two Towers. 2 Towers

1684
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:25,520
feels like he's playing with new
toys that he not perfects but

1685
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:27,400
refines.
For returning the King.

1686
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:29,400
That works better.
But also I've always liked the

1687
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:31,560
end of Return to the King.
I think all those endings and

1688
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:35,680
fade outs are earned and I think
that for the story, but

1689
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:38,680
fellowship is comfort.
Like I can throw that movie on

1690
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:42,240
anytime it doesn't feel like it.
I mean, it's amazing on the big

1691
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:45,440
stream, but you can watch it at
home and it feels like a Sunday

1692
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:49,600
afternoon rainy day movie still
because it's and it looks

1693
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:51,800
amazing.
Like that movie just it's lush.

1694
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,840
Yeah, they all look amazing, but
it's lush and it's welcoming and

1695
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:59,000
it's Rivendale is comforting.
And the Shire, I mean, my, my 14

1696
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,120
year old boy was like, I want
to, I want to go live in the

1697
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:02,120
Shire.
And I'm like, hey, you can go

1698
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:02,920
there.
It's in New Zealand.

1699
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:04,200
So that's still there.
And he's like, really?

1700
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:06,080
He was actually excited that he
can go there.

1701
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:09,800
I have friends who have been
there and they said it is worth

1702
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:13,320
every penny and they could
charge triple the price and it

1703
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:16,040
would still be worth it.
And that's the beauty of

1704
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:18,040
fellowship, right?
Like it's sort of like people

1705
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:21,720
still go there 25 years later
and I you know, that that's.

1706
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:26,400
Beautiful.
And the decision to as soon as

1707
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:29,040
they are what, they're riding
their ponies back into the Shire

1708
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,680
at the end of Return of the
King, and they're all in there

1709
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:36,040
like chain mail and swords and
bright colors and all this

1710
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:38,320
stuff.
Dylan.

1711
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:40,440
Faramir's suit.
Yep, Yep.

1712
01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:43,480
Yeah, they're wearing their
Rohanian gear and Gondorian

1713
01:33:43,480 --> 01:33:46,120
gear.
The grumpy old man.

1714
01:33:46,480 --> 01:33:49,640
I love the fact that he
introduces them back in with the

1715
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:54,280
grumpy old man who like.
For me, he is the epitome of the

1716
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:57,600
Shire.
Like the guy who's like, I want

1717
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,680
to have a good time, but my wife
is kind of grumpy and so I'm

1718
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:03,280
grumpy too.
But I really like kids and I'm

1719
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:06,720
just out here sweeping my front
porch and worried about the

1720
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:10,720
potato harvest.
And they're polishing a pumpkin

1721
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:12,760
and everybody's just laughing at
in a good time.

1722
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,000
And Yep, it's beautiful.
Oh man.

1723
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:20,920
Guys, final thoughts, final
question, why does this trilogy

1724
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:24,520
survive?
Well, you see, capitalism, Bob,

1725
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:28,120
is a merchandise.
That's why.

1726
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:33,960
Where's my cigar to champ on I?
Think it survives because it

1727
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:39,440
says something aspirationally
true for every human being.

1728
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:44,400
We want to be Sam.
We want to be Frodo.

1729
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:48,160
We want to be able to bear a
burden to the very end, and when

1730
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:52,320
we fail, we have somebody who
loves us and sees us through it.

1731
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:56,240
We want to be Aragorn.
We want to be a strong.

1732
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:00,280
I take on all things we want to
be failed in and say even in the

1733
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:02,800
face of death.
Certain death I will charge into

1734
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:06,080
the fray and defend what is
right and good and fight against

1735
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:08,240
evil like.
It it speaks.

1736
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:12,240
To the best parts of human
nature and what we want to be.

1737
01:35:12,440 --> 01:35:16,600
And so when we experience people
on screen being the thing we

1738
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:19,920
want to be, it speaks to our
souls.

1739
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:23,360
And I, I think that's why it
doesn't just survive 25 years.

1740
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:26,920
I think when it hits its hundred
year anniversary, it still will

1741
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:29,640
be talked about.
I I think it's just this

1742
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:34,040
incredible story.
Guys, that's, I mean, listen,

1743
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:35,520
we've done it.
We've gotten through the Lord of

1744
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:39,680
the Rings trilogy and it's short
enough that we can't play it as

1745
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:42,080
a DVD commentary over the
movies, so that's good.

1746
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:44,040
We made it out in an hour and a
half ish.

1747
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:45,840
Here.
We want to say thank you to all

1748
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:47,840
of our callers, all the people
who wrote in to tell us what

1749
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:49,120
they thought about Lord of the
Rings.

1750
01:35:49,440 --> 01:35:51,920
We want to say thank you to our
friend Zach Johnston.

1751
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:54,400
Zach, tell us a little bit about
what you're working on and where

1752
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:58,400
we can find you.
Yeah, Blackwood Whiskey, baby.

1753
01:35:59,480 --> 01:36:02,360
We're working on a big project
now, which we're probably going

1754
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:06,000
to announce in March, but we
just got into Whole Foods.

1755
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:09,080
So if you're in California,
Texas or Kentucky and chocolate

1756
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:12,200
Whole Foods, you'll be able to
find us there starting February.

1757
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:16,680
We're working on a couple other
cool projects and collaborations

1758
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:20,760
coming up in spring as well.
We're doing the first ever

1759
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:23,680
release of a whiskey that's
never been made before.

1760
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:27,200
So that's exciting.
And we're just, we're just

1761
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:30,920
trying to keep Kentucky bourbon
alive, baby.

1762
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:33,640
It's it's rough out here and
plug it away.

1763
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:37,120
Yeah.
Well, it's good to have you back

1764
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:38,400
on, man.
It's always good to see you,

1765
01:36:38,680 --> 01:36:40,480
folks.
We'd love to know what you think

1766
01:36:40,480 --> 01:36:42,120
about the Lord of the Rings
trilogy.

1767
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:44,600
What hot takes have not been
introduced here today on the

1768
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:46,600
podcast?
Are you going to go see it in

1769
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,800
theaters before it's gone this
weekend?

1770
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:50,920
And let us know what your
rankings are.

1771
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:54,720
You can find us on any of our
social media accounts Facebook,

1772
01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:59,480
Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok,
YouTube at Film Whiskey.

1773
01:37:00,120 --> 01:37:03,000
Or if you want, you can join the
conversation I will be getting

1774
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,880
on a day or two from now and
asking the question.

1775
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:07,880
What do you think about Lord of
the Rings?

1776
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:11,040
We're 25 years out, so if you
want you can jump onto our

1777
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:13,480
Discord server.
Join the conversation.

1778
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,360
You can find a link at the end
of every single one of our show

1779
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:20,200
notes.
We will be back on Tuesday with

1780
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:22,160
a pretty special episode of our
own.

1781
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:27,000
I will be talking about the 1961
classic West Side Story with our

1782
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:29,920
friend Patrick H Williams.
So I'm pretty pumped for that

1783
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,200
one as well.
Join us on Tuesday for that

1784
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:34,720
conversation, but until then,
I'm Bob Book.

1785
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:37,360
I'm Brad G.
And we'll see you next time.

1786
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:01,040
Music.