Fight Club (1999) / Four Roses Small Batch Bourbon

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In 1999, director David Fincher
and star Edward Norton gave the

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world a fatalistic gut punch
that still holds power.

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In 2026, we try a whiskey that
hopefully doesn't make us run

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headlong into traffic.
The.

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Film is Fight Club.
Brad seriously, so many people

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run into traffic in this movie
it's kind of insane.

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It's Whiskey is 4 Roses Small
Batch.

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And we'll review them both.
This is the Film and Whiskey

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podcast.
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I am Bob's fat and saggy tits.
Yeah, yeah, you are.

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And Brad, this week is the
reason this podcast was created.

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Episodes like this, because, you
know, I come on here every week,

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I give my spiel.
I say we're reviewing a classic

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movie.
Let's be honest, nobody needs

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Bob and Brad to review movies
that have already been

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established as classics.
Sure, but every now and then we

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get takes so spicy, so muy.
Caliente, Brad.

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You know I don't speak Spanish.
We single handedly revive the

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conversations around these
movies, Brad.

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And I'm going to continue to add
my spicy takes to the the pile,

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to the the burning heap of a
film that we're talking about

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today, Brad, because we're
looking.

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At 19. 99's Fight Club, a movie
that if you ever listened to our

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first episode on you know I
notoriously, it's a.

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Real eternal sunshine.
Am I right it?

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Really is man, the the eternal
sunshine in question is the

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hatred that burns within my
heart towards this film.

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Man, I can't wait to talk about
this with you.

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So folks, listen, usually we
don't come on here and just crap

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all over movies.
And in fact, especially when

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Brad and I have a difference of
opinion, at least I try to kind

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of tamper down when I'm lower on
a movie than Brad is.

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Brad just forges ahead, does not
care about my feelings at all.

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This is one of those times where
like.

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We're on the Internet, what's
the point of just being tampered

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down, holding it back?
Just let it all out, man.

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Dude, just today I was, I shared
a real from our Pulp Fiction

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episode and it was like, it was
a clip of me talking about how I

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think Tarantino's best movies
are the ones where he's kind of

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a big softie and he has empathy
for his characters.

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And I listed a few examples of
the movies that I really like by

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Tarantino and then a few
examples of the movies that I

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don't think do that well.
And like the first comment was

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some dude being like, you didn't
even list Jackie Brown, which is

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the best example of what you're
arguing for.

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And therefore this is a bad
take.

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And I'm just like, you're right,
guy on Internet.

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Like, I'm sorry that I didn't
list every movie Tarantino's

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made in this clip and then
categorize them for you.

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I I apologize that I only gave
you the framework for that, you

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know.
Yeah, but but that's the best

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example, Bob.
So you clearly don't know what

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you're talking.
About and you didn't list it now

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what I'm really excited for is
the the takes and the clips that

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are going to come out of this
episode.

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Like I said, I try not to crap
on movies a lot, but I know that

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this is a movie that Brad likes
quite a bit and thinks is a very

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good movie, but it's not like
near and dear to his cell heart.

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You know, like.
I, I wasn't watching this when I

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was like, hey, the, the
nostalgia's not there, you know?

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Not quite the family Christmas
tradition that it was in.

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Apparently some other people's I
mean houses.

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Well, we were talking about Pulp
Fiction.

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You said you saw that when you
were like 12.

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Yeah, probably 13.
I was like a freshman maybe.

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Bob, that's not good.
That's not good for the soul,

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no.
It's the perfect time to see

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Pulp Fiction.
Just seeing big names.

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Folks, if this is your first
time joining us on film and

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Whiskey, we talk about movies,
we talk about whiskey.

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This season, we are going back
to the movies that we reviewed

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back in Season 1.
This is season #10 of the show.

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We've been doing this for almost
7 years now, releasing episodes

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every single week.
And you know, you go back to

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season #1 and you realize we've
come a long way since then.

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And I thought it would be fun to
spend our 10th season revisiting

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and kind of replacing those
those old episodes with the

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older, wiser versions of
ourselves.

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Brad.
And so I do.

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Dragged my feet going back to
this movie.

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I think is is the point I'll
make here.

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Please go ahead.
I was just saying I do have a

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lot more Gray hair than when we
started so.

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And you used to have no hair.
So yeah, that's we've come a

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long way.
As I said, Brad, both signs of

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wisdom.
We were going to record this

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episode at the end of November
2025.

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And it.
Is I dragged my feet.

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I dragged my feet about watching
it and then we had other

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episodes to record.
Brad, it's been over a month

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since you watched this movie.
I assume you did some level of

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refreshing yourself via YouTube
clips.

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Nothing really.
I I wanted to and then it was

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time to record and I was like,
well.

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Here we are.
We're flying blind today, folks.

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Yeah, which is going to make for
a really fun episode.

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And I guess let's just go ahead
and kick off the fun now with

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our first segment of the day,
which we call Brad explains.

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Brad's going to give us the
movie plot with only 60 seconds

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taken on the clock, so let's go
ahead and do your take with this

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little segment that we call Brad
explains.

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Brad Explains is the part of the
show where Brad breaks down the

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plot of the film that he's just
seen often for the first time.

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Now Brad, this is AI want to use
the word notorious again?

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But a famous example of the
twist ending and one of the

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earliest examples of a true
twist ending in movies.

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One that reframed the whole
film.

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One that inspired countless RE
watches back when you can only

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get a movie like this on VHS or
an early DVD copy.

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And so this movie's popularity
really took off in the early

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2000s in dorm rooms across
America.

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This is like one of the movies
that if you're an 18 year old

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man coming into manhood.
Wow.

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This is this is what movies are
supposed to be.

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This is why you need to watch
this on YouTube.

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Then you get to see the the
quotation marks that Bob puts in

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when he says the word man.
Yeah, You know, I mean, listen,

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this is all, this is a movie all
about manhood, Brad, and it

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appeals to 18 year olds.
And I think that there's a

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reason for that.
But I say all that to say, we

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do.
Brad explains, and Brad gets a

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chance to tell you everything
that happens in this movie.

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So they're going to be spoilers
galore throughout this review or

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this synopsis of Fight Club.
Brad, you have 60.

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Brad, you have 60 seconds to
explain the plot of this movie,

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which I will say, and we'll get
to this two hours and 20 minutes

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long.
It's a little bit too long.

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It's a long.
It's a long movie, Yeah.

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And you only get one minute to
break it down.

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The floor is yours, Sir. 60
seconds and go.

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Fight Club is a film that
follows the narrator does not

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have a name in the film who is a
run-of-the-mill just trying to

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find his way through life.
Single guy in his 30s that works

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as a insurance adjuster.
I don't know.

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He goes and checks things out,
but as he travels across the

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country a lot, he develops
insomnia and this insomnia leads

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him to go to support groups in
order to fake like he has these

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bad things.
And as he cries with these

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people, it gives him release and
he's a lot of sleep.

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He meets another faker named
Marla Singer and she kind of

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ruins things for him and he goes
back to not sleeping.

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Eventually he meets a man on his
travels named Brad Pitt, and

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Brad Pitt teaches him all sorts
of stuff about fighting for the

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life and like capitalism is bad
and and all these things.

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And so he starts a cult and he's
going to blow up a bunch of

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credit card companies.
And then it turns out that Brad

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Pitt was not real the whole
time.

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He was a ghost, just like The
Sixth Sense.

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He.
Was not a ghost.

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Let's know.
Listen, I know this is your

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segment, but let's pump the
brakes here a little.

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Bit Edward Norton was dead the
whole time.

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Man, I do think that there's a
million directions we can go

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based on Brad Can.
I tell one quick story in my

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research for two facts in a
falsehood, apparently Rosie

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O'Donnell.
Do you know a story about her

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and Fight Club?
So Rosie O'Donnell started.

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I'm not going to go there like 3
or 4 days before the movie came

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out.
She had seen an advance

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screening on like Monday.
It's coming out on Friday and

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I'm like Wednesday on the View
or whatever show she was on back

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in the 90s goes on and tells her
audience across the whole

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country.
This movie like terrorized me.

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I can't sleep at night and it's
because Brad Pitt isn't real the

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whole movie.
He's a figment of Edward

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Norton's imagination and you
shouldn't go see it.

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It's a terrible movie 2 days
before it came out.

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Well, first of all, don't do
that.

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But also, like anytime, anytime
a figure goes on TV and says

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like this is filth, you should
never see it, guess what movie

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is going to be #1 that weekend,
What are you doing?

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The the Streisand effect. 100%
dude.

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All right, let's jump into
talking about the movie.

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You mentioned The 6th Sense.
I think that's a good comparison

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point.
And there I, I think part of the

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way I want to talk about this
movie is by comparing it to a

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lot of other movies 'cause that
kind of helps me understand

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personally where it succeeds and
where it doesn't.

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Cause I've seen some of this
stuff done better elsewhere.

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And some of that comes down to
like maybe Fight Club was the

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first to do it and we've just
gotten better at it since then,

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you know?
But The Sixth Sense, the other

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big twist ending movie of 1999,
unless you really want to count

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The Blair Witch Project, which
we don't really know what

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happens at the end of that
movie, but I've.

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Never.
I've never seen The Blair Witch

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Project.
Oh man, you'd have.

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Fun.
That was like the first shaky

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Cam movie, right?
Yep.

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Yeah.
All right, man, let's dive in.

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Where do you think we should
start with Fight Club?

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I think man, Fight Club has so
many, just so much going on.

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I, I think let's just stick with
the formula, Bob.

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Let's start with performances.
That's where we like to start.

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We like to talk about the
actors, actresses.

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Can we talk about the fact that
I think Helena Bonham Carter is

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the best actress of the last
like 50 years?

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I see, I don't disagree with you
in that she's a great actress,

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but like she for a long time she
only either did like Jane Austen

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adaptations or she was Bellatrix
Lestrange.

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Like those are the 2.
And I think part of that comes

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from being married to Tim Burton
for as long as she was, which is

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just if you look at pictures of
Tim Burton, they like clearly

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modeled some of Helena Bonham
Carter's characters after Tim

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Burton's look.
Like she has the the Bob Dylan

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weird bird's nest haircut and
all that.

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Like it's very weird.
But I don't like her as much

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here as I do in Harry Potter.
And I think that's because she

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leans into the hamminess a lot
more in Harry Potter.

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And I think that you can hear
her accent slipping through the

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American accent a lot in this
movie.

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And, and so like, it's, it's a
performance worth talking about.

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It's also kind of a nothing
character.

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Even though she's like this,
she's this presented as this

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live wire kind of girl.
She essentially only exists for

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the plot to keep her at arm's
length because of the twist at

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the end of the movie.
If Edward Norton even remotely

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mentions the word Tyler to her
any earlier in the course of the

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movie, the whole thing falls
apart.

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So that their entire
relationship has to exist on the

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basis of miscommunication and,
and just involves her getting

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mad and storming out and you
being as an audience member,

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like, I don't understand what's
going on here, you know?

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And so I think it affects her
the most because of that.

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I see for me, though, that
that's what gives the end of the

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movie like the punch when she
finally is like, like really

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00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,000
brought into the whole picture.
I think her reaction at the very

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00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:02,600
end of things is just so, so
good because you you've only

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00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,160
seen her being the angry person.
And when she finally, when you

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00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,720
finally get to see her care
about Edward Norton and be like,

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oh, yeah, no, I I care about
you.

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That's why we're still in this
weird relationship and I keep

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00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,800
coming back.
That's the moment for me that

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00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,560
her character like clicks.
Even though you're right, you

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00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,600
you don't barely get to see her
through the whole movie.

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Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
So The funny thing about this

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00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,120
movie is, like, the cast of
characters is enormous, but

240
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,240
there's really only like,
there's such a separation

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00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,480
between the top three people and
then maybe Meatloaf and Jared

242
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,640
Leto and then everybody else.
And so like, we've hit Helena

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00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,920
Bonham Carter, and it's like,
all right, I guess it's on to

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00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,280
Brad Norton.
Brad Norton.

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00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,040
Brad who?
Brad Norton.

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00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,440
Brad Norton.
Who's who's Jared Leto's in

247
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,200
this?
Yeah, he's the blonde guy that

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00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,160
Edward Norton beats.
Really.

249
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,120
Why didn't anybody do that in
real life?

250
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,760
I was going to say really living
out the wish fulfillment of most

251
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,360
people of just like man,
wouldn't it be nice, you know?

252
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,360
100% dude, I had no idea that
that was Jared Leto.

253
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,000
I until this moment didn't know
I'd seen a Jared Leto film.

254
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,920
This is the first.
You know, and, and credit to

255
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,960
Jared Leto for leaning into the
fact that he he is one of the

256
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,040
more punchable people in
Hollywood.

257
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,560
Yeah, because the year after
this, he's an American Psycho

258
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,080
and he plays a an even bigger
douche in that movie who gets

259
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,960
like, killed with an axe.
So it's like, you know, he he

260
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,120
he's understood the assignment,
kind of, Yeah.

261
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,080
I.
I appreciate that American

262
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,720
Psycho's been on that list where
I like, I feel like it's a, it's

263
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,880
a very popular YouTube short
movie that like you get clips

264
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,960
'cause they talks about like, I
don't know the world that he

265
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,560
lives in.
And then it shows him, like,

266
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,120
killing people and you're like,
OK, cool, YouTube.

267
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,080
I'll have to get around to
watching Jared Leto get punched

268
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,400
in that movie.
That sounds great.

269
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,680
Yeah.
So American Psycho is another

270
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,000
one of those movies that I have
on my list of like comparison

271
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,200
points because so there's 5 or 6
movies in a one year span from

272
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,720
99 to 2000 that deal with this
sort of like corporate white

273
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,240
collar, white male
dissatisfaction.

274
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,640
And we've watched quite a few of
them for this podcast.

275
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,080
So obviously Fight Club,
American Psycho, American Beauty

276
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,400
is right there.
That's 99 Office Space for a

277
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,040
more comedic take on it.
We have to watch Office Space

278
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,800
soon.
I think it's one of the best

279
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,840
comedies ever written.
We'll get around to it for sure.

280
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,160
It's a great one.
And then you've got The Matrix

281
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,840
and you've got Being John
Malkovich as kind of like an

282
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,920
outlier, not white collar, but
more of just like weird

283
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,560
dissatisfaction stuff.
And I think American Psycho for

284
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,720
me is a good comparison point
because it also doesn't quite

285
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,320
nail what it's going for.
It really wants to be a satire.

286
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,080
And for the people that it works
for, it works really well.

287
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,520
I can never get on that movie's
wavelength.

288
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,200
And I feel like that's kind of
where I'm at with Fight Club

289
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,400
even still after this viewing.
And I think that that's that's a

290
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,400
good framework then to go into
talking about our two main

291
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,280
performances from Brad Pitt and
Edward Norton.

292
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,080
And I think we should have the
longer conversation about Edward

293
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,520
Norton because he he was, I
don't want to say top of the

294
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,520
world at this point, but he
really bursts on the scene in 96

295
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,360
in this movie, Primal Fear,
which is also a twist ending

296
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,680
movie.
He gets nominated for an Oscar

297
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,040
for that movie and then not.
Only have I ever seen primal

298
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,880
fear.
I've never heard of Primal Fear.

299
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:42,760
So you've heard of it today,
baby.

300
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,600
That's right.
After Primal Fear, he starts

301
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,320
doing like he gets nominated
again in 98 for American History

302
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,200
X.
That movie is another like very

303
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,120
controversial film.
He's doing rounders with Matt

304
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,720
Damon.
He's trying to do like more

305
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,200
Hollywood commercial stuff.
And then he lands this movie and

306
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,880
by the end of the decade, he's
really established himself as

307
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,359
like, oh, this is maybe the next
guy.

308
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,520
And I feel like he built a bit
of a reputation in the 2000s for

309
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,640
being an A hole and Hollywood
didn't use him as much.

310
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,480
And he's kicked around quite a
bit.

311
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,599
But man, I just I wish we had
gotten more Ed Norton over the

312
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:24,280
last 15 ish years because he is
such a good actor and I think

313
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,800
that because the Brad Pitt stuff
in this movie is the iconic

314
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:34,000
imagery of the movie, people
forget how good Ed Norton is in

315
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,080
this movie.
He is like unbelievably good in

316
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,640
this movie.
Dude, for me, it's the reason I

317
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,640
keep wanting to come back to
this film.

318
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:49,400
I I think Edward Norton has he's
captured that sense of on we

319
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,360
about the American corporate
life in a way that I don't think

320
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,400
other movies do.
Like Kevin Spacey has too much

321
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,680
snarkiness to believe that he's
like really just depressed and

322
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,920
like, I don't know, rundown by
the American corporate world.

323
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,040
Whereas Edward Norton, I mean
the the famous like shot of him

324
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,600
at the copier and like the
copier light is going across.

325
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,000
His face.
And he's just like, you know,

326
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,040
like there, it's perfect.
He he does such a good job with

327
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,400
it.
Yeah, And I think that he's able

328
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:27,200
to kind of move between modes of
like, likeability as well, like,

329
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,400
because I think that the
beginning part of this movie is,

330
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,120
is like insufferable.
And I'll, I'll get around to

331
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,000
this eventually.
I, I just, because I'm not sure

332
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,560
as an audience member yet
whether this really is like my

333
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,200
protagonist.
And he just sounds like a whiny

334
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,520
little punk who's, like, mad
about having this privileged

335
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,000
life.
It's like, oh, F this guy.

336
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,120
Now, he captures that sort of,
like, ennui and morose thing

337
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:55,560
very well, but he's also, like,
just punchable enough.

338
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,880
And so then when he meets Brad
Pitt and he actually gets

339
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,840
punched, you're like, yeah.
But then he also is like, he can

340
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,600
be sweet and he can be likeable.
And then he takes his shirt off

341
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,240
and you realize, like, he's not
quite as jacked as Brad Pitt,

342
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,960
but this dude's in very good
shape.

343
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,520
And like I, I think that he
could fit into so many different

344
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,280
molds.
And I guess the only thing I can

345
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,760
really think to compare it to is
a couple years later when we get

346
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,920
Tobey Maguire as spider man and
he's trying to do kind of like I

347
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,960
can.
I can be a sarcastic a hole to

348
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,800
Uncle Ben.
I'm also really sweet.

349
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,240
I am also kind of jacked.
But Tobey Maguire always felt

350
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,880
more boyish.
And I feel like Edward Norton

351
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,320
had that sense of like, I'm a
grown up and I can be kind of a

352
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,080
Dick.
And, and it worked for whether

353
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,320
he wanted to be a hero or a
villain, he brought that, that

354
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,560
layer of nuance to it.
And it works because Brad Pit is

355
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:57,000
opposite of him.
Like he has just enough of AI

356
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,520
don't mean this word in a bad
way at all.

357
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,320
Just it's the way he presents
it.

358
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,200
He has just enough of a
feminized kind of like he just

359
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,960
like kind of is reserved.
That.

360
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,040
Brad Pitt.
Edward Norton is yes.

361
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,920
Edward Norton OK, OK, that Brad
Pitt being this like hyper

362
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:21,880
masculine, like argumentative,
just points out your flaws.

363
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,120
It just makes for such a great
contrast to watch Edward Norton

364
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:29,240
change throughout the movie.
And by the end of the film, when

365
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:35,200
he's trapped in this cult of his
own creation, you feel him

366
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,320
finally starting to wake up and
fight in the way that Tyler has

367
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,200
always wanted him to wake up and
fight, even if it's fighting

368
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,240
against his own creation.
I I think it's such a good

369
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,440
transformation throughout the
course of the film.

370
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,280
Yeah.
And I think it makes the last

371
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,920
half hour of this movie by far
the best part of the film.

372
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,240
Like, yeah, from from the time
even before the reveal that he

373
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,920
is Tyler, when he like, gets on
the plane and starts kind of

374
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,000
trying to reach race Tyler's
footsteps, it becomes such a

375
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,160
much more interesting movie plot
wise.

376
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,280
Because before that, it's this
weird effed up domestic drama

377
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,120
where he's in a house with these
two other people, but none of

378
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,080
them are ever in the same room
together.

379
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,720
And it's not really going
anywhere.

380
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,920
And it really tests your
patience for not just like,

381
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,880
what's the plot of this movie,
but also like, what are we

382
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,440
trying to communicate here?
Like, what's, you know what I

383
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,560
mean?
Like what's this about?

384
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,720
And I think that part of the
reason that it really is buoyed

385
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,160
at the end of the film is
because Edward Norton so good at

386
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,080
playing like desperate, like I,
I really have a, a sense of

387
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,960
conscious now.
I want to stop this thing from

388
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,360
happening.
I'm out of breath.

389
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:46,360
I'm running around like he plays
that, that sort of like frantic,

390
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,280
nervous energy really, really
well.

391
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,240
Yeah, and they also do.
I think this gets to more the

392
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,840
writing, but it's it almost
becomes a little bit of like a

393
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,040
horror thriller at the end of
the movie when he's he's in the

394
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,680
detective's office and he's
confessing everything and the

395
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,600
detective is like, all right,
I'm going to go take care of

396
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,240
things.
And the moment one of the guys

397
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,240
in the room goes, I think it's
honorable what you're doing,

398
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,400
Sir.
And and you realize that they're

399
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,560
in Project Mayhem.
Yep.

400
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:21,160
It it feel you feel trapped the
way Edward Norton is trapped.

401
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,360
And you have no doubt that they
are about to do what they are

402
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:29,400
threatening to do that like the
whole movie, like builds to that

403
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,120
point.
And it's like a fuse is about to

404
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,680
hit the bomb.
And I, I think it's just such

405
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,480
great, great writing.
All right, let's talk about Brad

406
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,600
Pitt a little bit.
Brad Pitt is such an interesting

407
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,360
actor to talk about because he
is like, and I think I've

408
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:47,920
mentioned this before, he he's
such a weird actor.

409
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,600
Like every time you think of how
like an actor would deliver this

410
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,520
line, Brad Pitt chooses the
complete opposite of that all

411
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,680
the time.
And it's not the same thing as

412
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,680
like, I think Nicolas Cage also
chooses the opposite of what a

413
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,960
normal actor would do.
But it's not, it's not that.

414
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,320
But like Pitt Mumbles a lot.
Pitt kind of mashes words up

415
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,000
together and says his lines too
quickly sometimes.

416
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,360
But because he's so magnetic and
so good looking and so

417
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:20,960
physically intimidating in this
movie, you're like, OK, spout

418
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,520
your dumb philosophy.
Like I I'll listen to whatever

419
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,560
you have to say in whatever
weird mumbly voice you want to

420
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,200
say it.
I don't.

421
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,400
I don't know what to make of the
performance, Brad.

422
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,040
Like, it's just he is.
He is there to be Brad Pitt.

423
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,000
And him being in this movie is a
commentary by Brad Pitt on being

424
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,960
Brad Pitt to the point where,
like at the end of the film,

425
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,440
he's just like, hey, Adam
Thornton, I'm who you want to

426
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:47,800
be.
I'm better looking than you.

427
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,280
I screw better than you.
I'm in better shape than you.

428
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,120
I am every man's dream and for
for Brad Pitt to kind of lean

429
00:23:55,120 --> 00:24:01,600
into that and also like lean
into the effed upness of that.

430
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,840
I think is is more interesting
in a lot of ways than the actual

431
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,080
performance on the screen.
That's that's really

432
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,400
interesting.
What What do you think it is

433
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,320
about Brad point in this point
of his career that makes this

434
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,280
such a big capital C choice for
him?

435
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,000
Well, I mean, like, so you know,
he works with Fincher in 95 on 7

436
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,520
and he was a big name already,
obviously, like and he had done

437
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,680
legends of the fall, but he was
still like this very pretty kind

438
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,560
of like, sure, this you know,
I'm women are crushing on him,

439
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,640
right?
And then 7 happens and it's

440
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,920
like, Oh, this guy really wants
to be edgier.

441
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,840
And it reminds me a lot of like
when DiCaprio does the departed

442
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,800
and it's like, Oh, this is a
different kind of DiCaprio and

443
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,720
his choices over the next few
years are like, am I this pretty

444
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,200
tabloid guy?
Am I going to start dating

445
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:54,080
actresses from friends?
Am I gonna be in movies like 7

446
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,960
Years in Tibet, which is
actually like on the Billboard

447
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,200
of one of in the background of
one of the scenes in this movie?

448
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,960
Really.
So like, yeah.

449
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,880
Or am I gonna take all that
image that I've built up for

450
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,880
myself and kind of turn it on
its head and critique the

451
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,800
consumerism that, like, my own
stardom feeds into?

452
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,280
And I think that that's really,
I mean, it really is a

453
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,840
commentary on his own stardom.
And at the end of the day, it

454
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,400
just made him more popular and
more consumer friendly for being

455
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,120
a sexy masculine Brad Pitt kind
of guy.

456
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,760
I want to hear your thoughts
though, like what do you

457
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,200
actually think of the
performance?

458
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,400
Especially because season 1 and
now season 10 have been very

459
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,000
Brad Pitt heavy.
So I think we have a better

460
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,240
sense of like, you know, like we
and just in the past couple

461
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,560
years we've done Moneyball,
we've done Tree of Life, we've

462
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,720
done this movie.
I'm sure there's two or three

463
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,240
others Inglourious Basterds we
had just had this season, you

464
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,240
know, and that's Pitt 10-15
years removed from this movie.

465
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,520
So a more mature actor I think
too.

466
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,080
Where do you land on him
performance wise in Fight Club?

467
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,800
I mean, it's Pitt at his most
unrestrained from what we've

468
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,160
seen him.
Like when I think about Pit and

469
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:15,600
Tree of Life and Moneyball, he
is a very, he plays very

470
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,800
restrained characters, right?
And obviously Tree of Life is

471
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,720
him with bouts of exploding
because he has his anger.

472
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,720
But for the most part, he's a
1950s dad that made it through

473
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,760
World War 2.
And when you see him in Fight

474
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,880
Club, compared to those and even
Inglorious Basterds, like, yeah,

475
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,600
he's a little bit unhinged, but
he's like the control point for

476
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,360
all of these really unhinged
soldiers, right?

477
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,040
I think when you have him in
Fight Club, you have him fully

478
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:49,200
let loose, unhinged, like
psychotic.

479
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,960
And I think it's a fascinating
performance because of that,

480
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,680
because we don't really see him
do that in other movies.

481
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,240
Now, I haven't seen a lot of
early Brad Pitt, so I don't know

482
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,920
if this is like more normal for
him in the 90s.

483
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:08,080
But to see him going absolutely
ham and yelling at people and

484
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:13,200
screaming and making sex note
like recordings of sex sounds to

485
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,280
be played with Helena Bonham
Carter, like this is him going

486
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,480
full out.
What?

487
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,400
What would it be like if I
chewed not just the scenery, but

488
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,440
the lighting and the sound and
everything that I possibly can

489
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,840
chew?
Yeah.

490
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,480
And I freaking love it, dude.
I like I think that yes, Edward

491
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,640
Norton is the key to this movie,
but I think Brad Pitt's the

492
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,520
linchpin, like his psychotic
energy is what draws you in, is

493
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,760
what keeps it from being boring.
So I'm with you.

494
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:49,120
Like the whole purpose of Edward
Norton is to say this is I like

495
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,440
the word you used morose.
He like he is just this like

496
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,160
dead doldrums of life.
And Brad Pitt is that driving

497
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,280
energy that's supposed to shake
him loose.

498
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,880
And he, he nails that,
absolutely nails it.

499
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,760
Right.
So this is only our third

500
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,720
Fincher movie that we've talked
about on the podcast.

501
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,520
We did this, we've done we've
done the social network and

502
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,560
we've done Zodiac.
So very different movies.

503
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,920
Very much so yeah.
And I think that like this one,

504
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,360
definitely, I have huge issues
with how long and how repetitive

505
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,160
and how I just redundant a lot
of this movie is.

506
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,640
But it definitely in terms of
like how many cuts and how many

507
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,640
edits happen over the course of
this movie.

508
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,600
It is by far the most fast-paced
editing wise.

509
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,160
And I think this is the first
time in Fincher's movie career

510
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,840
where you see him start to get
into some of these things where

511
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,760
he's making montages.
And it'll start with like

512
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,480
they're filming ATV report and
then they'll do like this quick

513
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,680
whip pan around and you'll see
the people on the couch watching

514
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,920
the TV report or whatever.
And he uses those kind of very

515
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,200
precise camera movements from
here on out in his career.

516
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,160
You see it a ton in The Social
Network, a little bit in Zodiac.

517
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,520
Fincher's a weird dude, man.
He, he loves to make movies

518
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,240
about like the darkest impulses
of humanity.

519
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:16,120
He just seems like he, he loves
to get grimy with stuff, but he

520
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,960
also has like a really sick
sense of humor.

521
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,960
And Fincher's kind of right now,
like, yeah, you know, persona,

522
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,040
like persona non grata in a lot
of places right now because he's

523
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,240
like gotten in bed with Netflix
and he's just kind of like

524
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,120
making whatever Netflix wants
him to do now, which gets me a

525
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,800
lot of points in my like, I
think David Fincher's kind of a

526
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,160
hack hot take that I want to
introduce someday.

527
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,640
He's not a hack.
He's technically brilliant.

528
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,720
But I just, I struggle with
Fincher because I don't know.

529
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,400
I don't know how deep he goes,
like as a person and as a film

530
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,280
maker because so many of his
movies seem to be geared towards

531
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,720
like the shit you would find
deep and the shit you would find

532
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:05,920
sickly funny at 21 years old.
And I don't really know how much

533
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,360
we go beyond.
Even when he tries to do that in

534
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,400
like Benjamin Button and like I
just, it doesn't feel authentic.

535
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,560
You don't like Benjamin Button?
It's OK, Yeah, Fight Club is

536
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,680
Fight Club for to me is like the
the apex of that too, where it's

537
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,760
like, what do you have to offer
me, man?

538
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,280
Is this like, are you hinting at
anything deeper than this or is

539
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,960
this just you like having fun,
bro.

540
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,360
And out with Brad Pitt making a
movie for 20 year olds, which is

541
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,200
cool.
But I also don't know that that

542
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,960
puts you on like my pedestal of
great film makers.

543
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,400
Yeah, I, I mean, for me, this
Fight Club never made me think

544
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,800
of Venture as a top five, top 10
greatest directors of all time.

545
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,440
Like it.
It definitely feels like a movie

546
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,200
that I, it depends on your
reading.

547
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640
It's one of those movies.
It's kind of like 500 Days of

548
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,880
Summer.
Like either 500 Days of Summer

549
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,640
is written by somebody who
understands that Joseph Gordon

550
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Levitt is not actually that
mature and he's kind of the bad

551
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,320
guy in the movie.
Or it's written by somebody who

552
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,240
is so immature that he doesn't
realize that, and he's trying to

553
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,000
make Summer the villain, but
isn't because she's not the

554
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,920
villain, right?
Like it's one of those two

555
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,440
things.
And it feels the same here.

556
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,280
Like, either David Fincher is
like growing out and things,

557
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,320
Project Mayhem is actually kind
of cool, and the whole fighting

558
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,800
is like, like, yeah, we need to
fight to become real men.

559
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,160
Or it's a guy who's making it as
a commentary on that to say,

560
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:49,760
hey, like, like this is what
unrestrained unhealthy

561
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,960
masculinity looks like when it
is only reactive.

562
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,480
And I like, I think for me,
that's why I like this movie is

563
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,680
because there is some nuance
between those two positions.

564
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,640
But at the end of the day, this
this movie is not a promotion of

565
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,800
what happens in the film.
At least I don't I don't think

566
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,640
it is.
I agree with that.

567
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,840
And I so I'm, I'm, I'm texting
you at the midway point of this

568
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,240
movie or not even midway.
I'm like, I've been watching

569
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,000
this for six hours now and it
tells me it's an hour into it.

570
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,520
Bob, you had a .5.
What are you doing?

571
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,880
It was a real slog, man, and
until I got to that last half

572
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,200
hour.
And I have a lot of thoughts on

573
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,240
how to unpack, you know, what
the actual point of this movie

574
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,920
is and people's response to it
and whether people got the point

575
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,680
of this movie and who that falls
on.

576
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,480
Is it the artist's
responsibility to make sure the

577
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,480
audience understands what
they're going for or is it

578
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,800
completely on the audience?
And I think that that's, I mean,

579
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,760
that's art, right?
We can unpack that I think in

580
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,200
the second-half of the episode,
because you mentioned 500 Days

581
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,880
of Summer, a movie that we just
talked about.

582
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,000
And that I actually think might
be the best lens through which

583
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,560
to compare to this movie.
So Brad, if it's OK with you,

584
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,920
let's hit pause here.
Let's go drink some whiskey so

585
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,640
that we can get ourselves ready
and fueled up to talk about

586
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,240
Fight Club some more in the
second-half.

587
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,680
What do you say, dude?
I'm ready.

588
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:22,760
Let's do it all.
Right.

589
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,800
So today we are checking out
Four Roses small batch.

590
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,920
Now Brad, I feel like it's been,
first of all, it's been a minute

591
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,760
since we've tried some 4 Roses.
I think we had some high quality

592
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,040
well aged ones from our friend
Zach Johnston a while back, but

593
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,200
it's nice to kind of return to
the basics here now. 4 Roses

594
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,720
small batch is not the most
basic of the basic 4 Roses.

595
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,040
That would just be the one
that's called 4 Roses.

596
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,160
Yellow label, colloquially 4
roses for those of you who are

597
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,480
not super familiar with the
distillery is famous.

598
00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:00,240
It it it has an almost film bro
like following Brad because they

599
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,760
make 10 different recipes of
bourbon inside the walls of four

600
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,600
Roses and they combine them in
various different combinations

601
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,360
to make some really good
bourbon.

602
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,960
And so Yellow Label is their
cheapest 1 and it is just a

603
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,159
blend of all 10 recipes put
together.

604
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,679
And it's.
Like now the one that we have.

605
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,120
Right now $28.00 per bottle.
Cheap $20 bottle of whiskey.

606
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,960
The one we have right now is
just like one step up from that

607
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,239
and it is four select recipes
and these recipes basically are

608
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,159
varied between 5 different yeast
strains that they use and a high

609
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,080
rye mash bill and a low rye mash
bill.

610
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,679
So that's how you get your 10
recipes.

611
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,520
This one is a combination of
four of those recipes.

612
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,199
For those of you who know and
care about these sorts of

613
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:50,080
things, it's OBSKOESKOBSO and
OESO.

614
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,440
And this is where, Brad, I
realized that I love whiskey.

615
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,280
I don't love whiskey this much.
Yeah.

616
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,600
I mean, like, I'm not hunting
down specific yeast strains to

617
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,520
try.
I just like a good.

618
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,920
Product.
Yeah.

619
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,200
I just want to drink normal
bourbon that I don't have to

620
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,080
think about too much, you know?
I mean, no hate to the people

621
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,200
who are hunting down specific
yeast strains.

622
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,840
I just like, that's a level of
bourbon nerd dumb that I have

623
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,560
not achieved even like 7 years
into this podcast.

624
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:23,240
Yeah.
Yeah.

625
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,280
All right, So Small Batch is
small batches bottled at 90

626
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,240
proof.
So it's a step up from Yellow

627
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,520
Label, which is bottled at 80
proof and and it commands a

628
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,200
higher price point because of
that, but still in this

629
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,720
affordable range.
Kind of sits next to Elijah

630
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:41,080
Craig on the shelf.
And, you know, that Bob Book

631
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,280
loves his $35 range of bourbon.
I feel like that's where you can

632
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,320
show up to the party with the
bottle and people know that you

633
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,080
weren't on the bottom shelf,
that you put a a little bit of

634
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,680
thought into it, you know?
I, I had a friend text me, I

635
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,840
don't know, a month ago saying
that he was going to like drink

636
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,440
whiskey with a group of like,
like whisk capital W whiskey

637
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,480
guys.
And he's like, what should I,

638
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,920
what kind of bourbon should I
bring?

639
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,680
And I was like, what's your
budget?

640
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:10,880
He's like $30.00.
I was like Cooper's Craft 100.

641
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,720
That's it, man.
But if you'd had an extra 5 to

642
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:18,080
$8 to spend, I, I mean, I don't,
I don't want to spoil the whole

643
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,240
review, but I think 4 roses
would be in the mix.

644
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,440
I think so too.
I'm excited to dive back into

645
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,680
this.
I have not had this in a really

646
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,240
long time.
Brad, you've tried it already,

647
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:31,080
so why don't you give your
nosing notes while I stick my

648
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,560
nose in this glass here?
Yeah, this is a very traditional

649
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,320
bourbon nose.
It to me.

650
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,040
It is a little bit corn heavy,
but not like overly sweet.

651
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,760
It has a little bit of that corn
syrupiness.

652
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,840
There's caramel, there's
vanilla.

653
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,160
For me, the the uniqueness finds
itself with a little bit of

654
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,520
citrus, like a really light
citrus note that's going on.

655
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,640
But overall this is just a
straight line.

656
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,240
Really nice bourbon nose.
I'm going to give it a 7 out of

657
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:05,400
10.
I'm getting kind of a weird note

658
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,240
on this that I've only gotten a
couple times.

659
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,920
It's not the predominant note,
but it keeps throwing me off

660
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,800
every time I stick my nose close
to it.

661
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,600
And there's like just a slight
hint of like oniony, like

662
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,480
everything bagel seasoning
going.

663
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,440
OK, I don't know why, but
underneath the weird onion note

664
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,240
that I'm getting, there's a lot
of sourdough bread it, but it

665
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:28,200
doesn't smell like yeasty.
It doesn't smell youthful or, or

666
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,920
too young.
It just has like a nice baked

667
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,760
sourdough kind of thing going
on.

668
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,440
And there are some nice like
almost eggnogy notes.

669
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,760
Like I get a lot of like
custardy vanilla notes on this.

670
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,800
I like it a lot, except for the
fact that I keep thinking of

671
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,320
like like an Arby's beef and
cheddar where you get the little

672
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,480
onions on the top of the bun.
Can I give one quick hot take

673
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,120
before we move on 'cause I, I
was just talking about this with

674
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,240
somebody yesterday.
I think that eggnog is better

675
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,320
without alcohol in it. 100% I
prefer a non alcoholic nog.

676
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,120
Yeah, I mean partially because
like I grew up with the non

677
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:09,880
alcoholic nog and like now I've
put bourbon in it a few Times

678
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,440
Now.
I will say if you do, if you

679
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,880
heat it up and do like some
espresso in it and do like an

680
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,440
eggnog latte, I can get down
with that dude.

681
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,440
That is freaking Kahlua.
Yeah, OK.

682
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,080
Maybe a little Kahlua in with
it.

683
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,040
There's something about just.
Bourbon it.

684
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,280
It thins it down too much and it
puts it in this weird, like

685
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,600
snotty consistency that you
don't want, you know what I

686
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,240
mean?
You don't want like baby drool

687
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,520
consistency for your.
Hey, but this 4 roses small

688
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,840
batch 7.5 on the nose, Brad,
yes.

689
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:51,720
The palette for the Four Roses,
it is Carmely, there is peanuts,

690
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,560
the vanilla is there.
The for me, the citrus turned

691
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,440
into a little bit of like a
summer fruit kind of melon kind

692
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,720
of vibe.
Really pleasant, refreshing

693
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:03,520
bourbon that I'm going to give a
7 1/2 to on the palate.

694
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,000
Yeah, this is man.
Caramel's a great note and it

695
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,360
sounds like very plain and
simple, but I feel like a lot of

696
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,120
times we bring up Carmely notes
and what we really mean is like

697
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,600
brown sugar or Maple or vanilla
'cause we just kind of lump the

698
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,240
sweet notes together sometimes.
This is the first one I've had

699
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,240
in a while.
It reminds me of like a

700
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:23,640
Werther's Original.
There's just a ton of caramel

701
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,800
here mixed with like quite a bit
of spice.

702
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,480
This is black pepper heavy for
me.

703
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,040
I do get some of those kind of
Melanie notes that you're

704
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,200
getting as well.
It tips a little bit bitter

705
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,160
towards the back of the palate
for me, but I think I'm going to

706
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,400
Ding it more on the finish than
I am on the taste.

707
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,320
This is significantly better
than I remember it being.

708
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,480
I think I'm going to come all
the way up to an 8 out of 10 on

709
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,040
the palate here.
Yeah, I'm kind of with you on

710
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,080
the finish.
It it doesn't quite sour for me.

711
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,160
It just kind of dissipates a
little bit.

712
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,760
There's pepper, there's oak, the
caramel sticks around.

713
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,040
It returns to its kind of base
corn flavor.

714
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,600
But overall it's a medium length
finish that's got a nice

715
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,320
Kentucky hug.
I'll give it a 7 out of 10 here.

716
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,200
Yeah, I think for me, like I
said, it tips bitter, it gets a

717
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,680
little more herbal and it gets
some of that like barrel char in

718
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,400
a bad way, like the the
bitterness of the barrel char.

719
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,600
I think this is just a 6 1/2 for
me on the finish, but I don't

720
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,400
think that it's rocky enough to
really Ding it here on the

721
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,880
balance.
Overall, I think this is a

722
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,880
pretty well balanced whiskey.
I'm going to stick it a 7.5.

723
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,960
Yeah, I'm at a 7.5 as well for
balance.

724
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,640
It's a pleasant experience.
There's nothing incredibly

725
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,520
complex about it, but there's
some good flavors mixed in with

726
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,480
your classics to make it a
relatively well balanced

727
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480
whiskey.
And for value in the state of

728
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,240
Ohio, you're going to spend
about $37 on this bottle of

729
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:52,120
whiskey.
So it, you know, it's 3699,

730
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,800
you're going to walk out the
door at 40 after tax.

731
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,760
I don't think that that's a bad
value.

732
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:03,320
I, I, it's not quite like there,
I'll give it a 6 1/2 out of 10.

733
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,240
I, I think it's a decent value.
I think there's other stuff in

734
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:10,040
that 35 to $40 range I might
recommend before it.

735
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,400
But overall, I don't think this
is unfairly priced.

736
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,080
Yeah, I think the market has
just risen on stuff like this.

737
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,880
When when we first started the
podcast, I think we did small

738
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,240
batch and we did single barrel
somewhere around the same time.

739
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,680
And I remember at the time for
Roses single barrel was like one

740
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,520
of the cheapest good single
barrels you could get.

741
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,640
It was around 38 to $40.
And so now that's risen in price

742
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,560
and this has kind of come up to
take its place.

743
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,480
If this was $25 or $27.00, I
would say that's right in line

744
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,160
with what you're getting because
this is a right down the middle.

745
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,720
There is nothing, no real peaks
and also no real valleys.

746
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,600
But because of that, I'm just
like, you know, $37 when we

747
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,200
started the podcast is what we
would pay for like Eagle Rear.

748
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,720
And I think Eagle Rear is better
than this now.

749
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,040
Like what can you get for $37
now?

750
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,000
Elijah Craig I think I would
still say is better than this.

751
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,040
I think I would say like
Cooper's Craft 100 for seven or

752
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,760
$8 less is better than this.
So I'm going to come down to a

753
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,240
six out of 10 on the value here,
Brad, and that's going to bring

754
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:25,280
me out to a 35.5 out of 50.
Where are you at on this one?

755
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:33,760
I'm coming to a 35.5 out of 50
and I will say that $30 in 2019

756
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,960
based on inflation.
You know what it's worth today,

757
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,600
Bob?
38 dollars $38.02.

758
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,760
Wow.
So inflation, inflation wise, it

759
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:47,920
feels.
Right in line.

760
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,720
It's right in line with where
it's at, so I don't know if that

761
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,880
changes your score at all, but.
Yeah, I think it's one of those

762
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,840
things where, like, you and I
talk about like, the burger and

763
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,160
fries, lunch should still only
cost $10.

764
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,920
Like there's no reason I should
spend more than 10 American

765
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,320
dollars on a burger and fries.
That's kind of where I'm at with

766
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,720
this.
Like this is a $30 bottle of

767
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:11,320
whiskey.
I don't care what's happened

768
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,720
with inflation, it should still
be $30.

769
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,840
And that's why we are coming out
to a 71 out of 100 on this or a

770
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,960
35.5 out of 50 on average.
I will give this a mild thumbs

771
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,960
up.
Like if if this is your bag, if

772
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,760
you like 4 roses, I think this
is a good baseline.

773
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,280
Yellow label's not my favorite.
So I would say like make this

774
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,800
the baseline version of that and
then scale up from there.

775
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,400
Yeah, I I mean, I think this is
a really pleasant experience.

776
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,400
It's a little bit peanutty if
you enjoy that like nutty

777
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,440
flavor.
The corn is there, the caramel,

778
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,040
it's very vanilla.
Y It's a good pleasant bourbon

779
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,520
experience that you know for the
mid, upper mid 30s you're,

780
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,120
you're getting a decent bourbon.
Yeah, I think there's really

781
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,040
only one thing left to say,
Brad, and that is I am Jack's

782
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:06,200
inflated whiskey price.
Rule #1 Don't talk about Four

783
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,080
Roses.
Talk about inflation.

784
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,880
All right, man, let's get back
into talking about Fight Club.

785
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,560
What do you say?
Let's get to it.

786
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,040
All right, everybody.
That was 4 Roses Small Batch, A

787
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,560
respectable whiskey at the price
point it was.

788
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,440
It was a good experience, Bob.
I was trying to think of

789
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,200
something clever to start with.
I am Jax, whatever.

790
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,040
And if we were really clever, we
would have, we would have done

791
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,320
Jack Daniels so we could say I
am Jax.

792
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,440
You know, I was going to say.
Your version, Jax Thorny

793
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,360
something you gotta love that
roses.

794
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,280
Because of roses.
Because of roses.

795
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,680
Yeah.
Yeah, Well, you.

796
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,760
Know it's been a little thorny
for you this season, Bob.

797
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,120
It's our game. 2 facts and a
falsehood, Brad.

798
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,120
Is going to try to stump you Bob
2 are right and what is wrong?

799
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,640
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts
and a Falsehood is the part of

800
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,120
the show where Brad presents me
with three items as fact about

801
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,720
the making of this movie, one of
which is a complete lie.

802
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,520
Now, Brad, I know only the
barest semblance of the facts

803
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,120
about the movie Fight Club.
I know about the author Chuck

804
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,440
Polonic and like I remember
having some friends in high

805
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,160
school that were really into
reading his books because it was

806
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,760
the edgy thing to do at the
time.

807
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,920
I've never read any of his.
No, I was gonna say, you've not

808
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,320
read Fight Club.
No, I've not read anything

809
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,520
written by him.
And it's not like I'm crusading

810
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,960
against him.
It's just never happened.

811
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:38,520
So I think that there's a lot of
opportunity.

812
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,680
I actually read I read Fight
Club after I saw the movie.

813
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,800
Partially.
Partially because it's literally

814
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,080
like 104 pages.
It it like it's.

815
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,000
More of a short, I wouldn't call
it a short story, but it's not

816
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,720
like a 300 page novel.
It's a pretty quick read.

817
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,760
I don't there's like a few
differences.

818
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,960
Most everything stayed the same.
I do remember in the last like 4

819
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,640
pages of their book there being
like a line that like really

820
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,600
stuck with me for a long time
but now I can't remember it so

821
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,680
you know.
Thanks a lot, Chuck.

822
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,440
Come on, I said.
I said all that to say, there's

823
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,480
a lot of different areas where
you can get me today because I

824
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,080
just don't know a lot.
So, Brad, hit me with your two

825
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,960
facts and a falsehood.
All right, I, I love my themes.

826
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,640
A lot of times my themes come
from the fact that like as I'm

827
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,800
reading, there's a bunch of
facts that weirdly have the same

828
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,640
thing.
This one, there's a bunch of

829
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,120
facts that like we're like
around 55 minutes in parentheses

830
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,600
and then the fact.
So that's, that's our theme

831
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:46,240
today, Bob Around 55 minute.
Fact #1 around 55 minutes.

832
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,200
The line.
It's only after we've lost

833
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,320
everything that we're free to do
Anything.

834
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,720
Was originally written as a
longer monologue explaining

835
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,160
Tyler's philosophy.
Fincher director David Fincher

836
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,480
explained in the DVD commentary
that he cut it down to a single

837
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,760
sentence after realizing the
message was more unsettling when

838
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:10,400
delivered without explanation.
Fact #2 Around one hour and 9

839
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,960
minutes.
Bob wears a shirt during his

840
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,680
fights, despite 1 of the 8 rules
being you're not allowed to wear

841
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,080
shirts or shoes during fights.
This is because Tyler Durden

842
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,040
fights Bob's man boobs to be too
gross behind the scenes, though

843
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,160
this was also because Meatloaf's
fat suit had to be hidden.

844
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,320
Fashion #3 At around an hour and
15 minutes.

845
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,640
When a Fight Club member sprays
the priest with a hose, the

846
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,520
camera briefly shakes.
This happens because the

847
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,960
cameraman could not keep himself
from laughing.

848
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:56,200
I think 2 is true, and I could
go either way on Yeah, I could

849
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,120
go either way on three because
there's so many like jittery

850
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,040
camera things added to this
movie, which are again, like,

851
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,080
oh, you're you're so edgy and
cool.

852
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,960
You hate this movie, Bob.
I can just feel it in your soul.

853
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,360
So #1 is kind of like the
obvious candidate here for a

854
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,360
falsehood, but it's just.
It's also not like the sexy 1 to

855
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,120
pick.
Yeah, and we know you, Bob.

856
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,720
You like picking the sexy ones?
I sure do.

857
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,640
I sure do Brad.
I'll go with #1 because AI don't

858
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,440
remember what it was and B3
sounds like it could be

859
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,720
innocuous enough to be true.
I do think 2 is true for sure.

860
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,920
So it's either one or three.
I'll take one, Brad.

861
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,840
Man, with that convincing inner
dialogue being explained to us,

862
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,920
Bob, I have to tell you that you
are correct.

863
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,440
Number 1 is a falsehood.
I was so.

864
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,880
Worried you were going to be
like actually 2 is the falsehood

865
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,200
and you're so wrong.
Those are my favorite 2 facts in

866
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,440
the falsehood.
When you immediately dismiss my

867
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,720
falsehood, you're like, Oh yeah,
obviously that one's true and

868
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:04,320
then you like spend 5 minutes
debating which of the true ones

869
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,600
is false.
I it's I just get to sit here

870
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,280
and.
Be like, all right, man.

871
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,720
So I'm riding high off of a
victory here.

872
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,400
It's about the only good thing
to come out of Fight Club.

873
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:22,360
No, here's the thing.
I want to come in and like, I

874
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,680
want to have my Last Jedi thing
like you did.

875
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:29,880
I want to have my tome written
and my logic in place for why

876
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,760
this movie is incoherent and I
think ultimately irresponsible

877
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,040
and dangerous.
And I still kind of think those

878
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,960
things.
But I also think the last half

879
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,160
hour of this movie is pretty
easy to follow and pretty easy

880
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,920
to to use as an interpretive
lens for the rest of the movie.

881
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,640
Yeah.
And if you're watching the movie

882
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,720
closely, especially because once
you know the twist, you you do

883
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,000
you rewatch the movie really
closely all through the movie.

884
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,160
Like Edward Norton's character
says at one point he's like, I'm

885
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,360
a 30 year old boy.
I don't want this or that, you

886
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,160
know?
And then you've got like Tyler

887
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,640
Durden growing out and being
like, we're a generation of men

888
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,520
who were raised by women.
Do you really think we need

889
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,080
another woman in the mix?
And, and once you understand

890
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:22,160
that Tyler Durden literally only
exists as the worst impulses of

891
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,800
a narrator who needs to grow up,
it, it makes a lot more click.

892
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:36,320
I do still think that the bulk
of the movie is keeping the

893
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,640
twist at Bay, but by keeping the
twist at Bay, it's also keeping

894
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,280
the point of the movie at Bay
for a really long time.

895
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,680
And So what people remember from
the movie, like there's some

896
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,320
cool imagery at the end and the
Pixies needle drop and the

897
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:50,840
buildings blowing up, It's
really cool.

898
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,840
But what people remember from
the movie are like the fight

899
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,600
scenes and Brad Pitt shirtless
and Brad Pitt with his cool red

900
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:03,040
leather jacket saying cool,
manly sounding machismo bullshit

901
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,880
philosophy.
And so I do think that there's

902
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,800
an element of like, I, I think
this movie is perfectly clear

903
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,600
about what it actually thinks.
And also it's a little bit

904
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,680
irresponsible in the way that
it's structured and the way that

905
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:22,000
it's written, because it was so
easily misinterpreted by a whole

906
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:28,200
generation of angry young males
who hold its incorrect

907
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,960
philosophy in high esteem.
Yeah, I mean to me the the

908
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,520
thought I had coming out of it
was and you'll know the director

909
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:42,760
that said this, you can't make a
true anti war movie, right.

910
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:43,720
Who?
Who said that, Bob?

911
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,400
I think it was Truffaut that
said.

912
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,320
Yeah, Truffaut, and like that.
Like that is what I walked away

913
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,720
from with this.
I also feel like this is the

914
00:51:53,720 --> 00:52:03,520
classic example of a person who
gets the the analysis right and

915
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,160
the prescription wrong.
Right.

916
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,920
Like the analysis is right.
Corporate America sucks the soul

917
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,400
out of humanity, especially men
in a lot of ways.

918
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,240
And the prescription of like
fight and fuck is basically the

919
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:22,840
prescription.
And like, that's not the right

920
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,560
prescription to become a healthy
man.

921
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,200
I, I think that there is a lot
of great things that you can do

922
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,360
to become a healthy man.
And some of it involves fighting

923
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,000
for something and some of it
involves being honorable towards

924
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,240
women and pursuing them in a
healthy way.

925
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,800
Right?
Like, I, I think that it's OK to

926
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:47,960
say that masculinity involves
some of those things, but when

927
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,960
you present the unhealthy
exclusively and at the end of

928
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,840
the film, you say, bad, I'm
going to slap you on the wrist.

929
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,880
It's like, yeah, no, I, I think
that Fincher is a little bit

930
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,320
irresponsible with what he's
presenting.

931
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:07,760
Well, and also because like you
go the whole movie thinking that

932
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,200
they're railing against
consumerism and whatever, but

933
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,680
then the final kind of reveal of
the movie is basically, you

934
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,160
know, the narrator character
waking up to the fact that like,

935
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,920
I, I mean, I am an insane
person, but also I need to grow

936
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,760
up.
It's it's a very largely writ

937
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,680
satire of a coming of age story.
And Fincher has called this a

938
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,840
coming of age story.
Like if you even if you go to

939
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,760
the Wikipedia, it says he calls
it a coming of age story, but

940
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,880
for people in their 30s.
And I think that's a really

941
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,960
funny way of talking about it
because then you do have this

942
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,840
site, this kind of quarter life
crisis, like what am I putting

943
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,440
my money, my time, my effort
into?

944
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,960
Where am I going in my job?
That's all folded in.

945
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,560
So yes, that's there.
But the ultimate point of this

946
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:56,760
movie is like a guy learns how
to not be scared to be in a

947
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,640
relationship.
This is a movie about like a guy

948
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,480
finally becoming ready to not be
selfish and and be a good

949
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,080
boyfriend.
And in that respect, it really

950
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,800
is very similar to 500 Days of
Summer, another movie that we

951
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,600
kind of struggle with.
Because when you watch that

952
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,120
movie as a young, impressionable
teenager to early 20s person,

953
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,840
you're on Tom's side for a lot
of that movie.

954
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,280
And you don't realize that the
movie is telling you throughout

955
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,920
its entire course that Tom is in
the wrong and Tom is super

956
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,840
immature.
And it's on Tom to get over this

957
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,040
paradigm that he's concocted for
himself.

958
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:33,720
And this movie does the same
thing.

959
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,200
But because it does it in this
kind of like fantastical, weird,

960
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,960
schizophrenic, violent way, I
think it does kind of dabble

961
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,640
with being irresponsible.
And I think the irresponsibility

962
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,080
for me comes in like how much
weight is given to that reveal

963
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,520
at the end where everything
throughout this movie, nothing

964
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,880
is subtle about this movie.
It I mean, it punches you in the

965
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,240
face repeatedly.
And yet even after that twist

966
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:04,520
and the the sort of reframing of
Edward Norton's character, I

967
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,320
don't think they do enough to
like underline it in red pen,

968
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,880
enough for the people in the
audience who are too young and

969
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,600
impressionable and immature to
understand what they're trying

970
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,000
to go for.
And it's weird.

971
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,880
I I don't usually call for film
makers to be less subtle, but I

972
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,640
think a movie like this kind of
demands it when it's like you

973
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,320
front loaded it with all this
other stuff and got the incel

974
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,880
Bros on your side.
And if you're going to try to

975
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,040
tell them that what this movie
is actually about is like

976
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,760
growing up, then you can't just
end it the way you did without

977
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,320
underlining that a bit more.
Well and and the way he ends it.

978
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,520
I agree.
I think the ending is him

979
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,480
growing up but the ending is
like he becomes masculine by

980
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:53,280
shooting himself.
Like, he literally kills the

981
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,080
dark version of himself by
putting a gun in his mouth,

982
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,720
pointing it to the side and kind
of shooting a hole through, like

983
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,040
the side of his mouth and
throat.

984
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,800
Yeah.
And And it's it's this wildly

985
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,520
violent way of becoming a man.
And so even in.

986
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,160
Like it's very 1990s too.
Like I, I don't think we can

987
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,240
divorce ourselves for there was
a great documentary a couple

988
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:19,440
years ago about Woodstock 99
when they tried to revive

989
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,120
Woodstock at the end of the 90s
and all the music acts that they

990
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:24,640
booked were like new metal
bands.

991
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:26,480
So it was like Limp Bizkit and
corn.

992
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,200
And I don't know if you remember
this.

993
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,440
I remember from when I was a
kid, like people, like, I'm

994
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,240
pretty sure people died like
they burned everything down.

995
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,600
It was like a giant riot.
And it was like the undoing of

996
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,120
what Woodstock in the 60s was
supposed to.

997
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:45,480
Because there was just this
innate unspoken anger among

998
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:50,000
predominantly white teenagers at
the end of the 90s that led to

999
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:54,320
things like Columbine.
And everybody was blaming media

1000
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,400
for these violent impulses.
And there's just something there

1001
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,920
that's like, I watch The Matrix
now and I'm like, damn, there's

1002
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,760
a lot of guns in this.
Like we really were obsessed

1003
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,160
with guns as a culture, you
know?

1004
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,560
And and Fight Club is Fight Club
is still a popular movie, but it

1005
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,280
definitely does feel like a
relic of early millennial or

1006
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,600
Gen.
X kind of generation and the way

1007
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,960
they expressed their anger.
And they worship violence in a

1008
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,320
lot of ways.
Yeah.

1009
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,080
Yeah, which is interesting
because like, you hear Gen.

1010
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,640
Xers especially talk about their
childhood and they're like,

1011
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,880
yeah, no, we were violent and
our playgrounds could kill us

1012
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,400
and things like that.
And then they ended up

1013
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,480
worshipping it.
And I feel like millennials are

1014
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,160
kind of where that starts to
shift.

1015
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,600
And, and for sure, I, I don't
know, as far as Fight Club goes,

1016
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,880
I actually, I, I disagree on the
subtlety part.

1017
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:48,120
I don't think he needs to be
less subtle about the ending.

1018
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,280
I like.
I think Fincher made the movie

1019
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,080
he wanted to make.
I I will place the blame on the

1020
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,520
audience.
Yeah.

1021
00:57:55,640 --> 00:58:02,320
If this if this style of life is
attractive to somebody, that

1022
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,280
says more about them than it
does about David Fincher and

1023
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:07,800
that.
And that's not to like, say

1024
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,240
they're bad people or anything,
but there's reasons why a

1025
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:18,520
violent brotherhood cult
community is attractive to some

1026
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,600
people.
Elements of our society have

1027
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:29,400
created this pocket of a dearth
of brotherhood and friendship

1028
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:34,520
and adventure and like
challenging men to strive after

1029
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,480
something in a healthy way.
And when you have a void of

1030
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,000
something that is necessary to
the human soul, it will get

1031
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,960
filled with something and it
gets filled with things like

1032
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,160
Fight Club.
And so I, I think Fincher is

1033
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,680
actually putting his finger on
the pulse of something very key

1034
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:56,120
to what it means to be a human
being, to be a man.

1035
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,840
And like I said, the the
prescription within the movie

1036
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,160
that he kind of judges is not
good, but he never gives a

1037
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,640
healthy prescription.
He just kind of says, like,

1038
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,000
yeah, starting a cult that blows
up buildings is bad.

1039
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,600
Like that's pretty clear by the
end of the film.

1040
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:17,360
But he never.
Well, that's my point, because I

1041
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,600
think that what he's doing is
he's he takes the end of the

1042
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,920
movie and he just says like it
was never about any of that

1043
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,160
stuff.
I was saying earlier.

1044
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:24,560
It was never about the Fight
Club.

1045
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,840
It was never like the
prescription is part of a

1046
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,840
completely illusory paradigm,
right.

1047
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,840
But to your point, he never like
builds out what the actual

1048
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,720
solution is.
And the way the movie ends, just

1049
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,200
from a plot device standpoint is
like Edward Norton's tried to

1050
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,120
turn himself in.
That didn't work out.

1051
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,000
He can't keep the buildings from
being blown up.

1052
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,880
And you know that the he escaped
from the police station, so the

1053
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:51,360
police are going to be chasing
him.

1054
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,600
So now he's like a fugitive
terrorist leader who had an

1055
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,640
enlightening moment.
But you don't know, like, is he

1056
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,800
going to disband the terrorist
organization or is Marla going

1057
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,000
to become the Bonnie to his
Clyde?

1058
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,600
Like it it you don't know.
And again like.

1059
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,680
I hate being the guy that's
begging for like, spell it out

1060
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,840
for me, David Fincher.
But when you're releasing.

1061
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,240
A movie, 10 more minutes of back
story Is.

1062
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:22,160
Is that what you need, Bob?
When you're releasing a movie

1063
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,560
into an environment of people
who are clamoring for something

1064
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,880
to latch onto with their anger
or to explain their anger or to

1065
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,000
fuel their anger, I think you do
have to, as a, as a film maker,

1066
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,560
ask yourself, like, what if this
gets misinterpreted?

1067
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:41,000
What kind of harm could this do?
It's a conversation we had about

1068
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,320
a movie like Joker that I think
is equally misinterpreted like

1069
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,360
this movie.
And I I thought a lot about like

1070
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,640
the Wolf of Wall Street, which
is a really good movie that I

1071
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:56,280
still think it glorifies its
lifestyle in order to satirize

1072
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,800
it.
But to your point, like you

1073
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,920
can't make an anti war movie at
some point the glorification is

1074
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,760
the the end of the thing.
You can't make an anti Wall

1075
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,320
Street movie Bob.
You sure can't, dude.

1076
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,920
Do you know why, Bob?
Because when you're on wall.

1077
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,600
Street, you got jacked to the
tents.

1078
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,560
All right, dude, we've talked a
lot about this movie.

1079
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,720
I think it's time for us to pick
a movie to pair it up with, and

1080
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,920
that means it's time for our
final segment of the day.

1081
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,840
Let's make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1082
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,200
episode, so thanks listening to
the film and Whiskey show.

1083
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,760
Let's pair another film with
this one, even if it's

1084
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,440
struggling.
It's the final segment of the

1085
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:37,920
day.
Now let's make it a double.

1086
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,640
Make it a Double is the part of
the show where we pick a movie

1087
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,840
to pair up with this one to make
the perfect double feature.

1088
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,960
Brad, I do think any of the
movies I've mentioned that Wolf

1089
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,840
of Wall Street is a is a really
good one because it captures

1090
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,840
like I think where both the film
makers kind of got things wrong

1091
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,240
and also is very glorifying of
what it says it's going to

1092
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,200
satirize.
I'm gonna go kind of a little

1093
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,520
bit more.
Let's watch another movie.

1094
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,880
The scene where he's like
tracking Tyler around the

1095
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,840
country and trying to figure out
who is this elusive guy that I

1096
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,240
know really well.
My friend is really similar to

1097
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,440
the great movie The Third Man,
which we've talked about on the

1098
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,480
show and never watched.
And it is one of the best movies

1099
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,560
ever made.
So if you could bottle up just

1100
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,960
that scene and it becomes like
the first hour of this mystery

1101
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:31,040
movie of I'm chasing around
Vienna post war trying to find

1102
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,600
my friend who people said is
dead but who may or may not

1103
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,840
actually be like a secret
underground mobster.

1104
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:39,160
Freaking fantastic.
The third man.

1105
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:41,480
OK, When did the third man come
out?

1106
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,240
47 maybe.
OK.

1107
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,880
Yeah, yeah, I'm ready, man.
Let's do it.

1108
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,400
We're going to do it.
I think for me, I am going to go

1109
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,200
with the coming of age.
My brain is disappearing on me.

1110
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,480
I'm going to go with the coming
of age idea and say I'm going to

1111
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,680
go with The Graduate.
I think that there's a weird, I

1112
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,160
have seen The Graduate.
I did not love The Graduate.

1113
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,600
Not my favorite movie.
I think though, that there's

1114
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,680
this, there's this sense of like
existential drift.

1115
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,760
There's a lot of sexual
confusion and what it means to

1116
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:21,240
be a man, and there's a lot of
anger that you get to see Dustin

1117
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,200
Hoffman work through throughout
the film and you know, the kind

1118
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,640
of the rebellion and the malaise
and all this stuff going on.

1119
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,880
I think there's a weird amount
of correlation between Fight

1120
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:36,880
Club and the Graduate.
Obviously The Graduate being for

1121
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,640
9, you know the 1960s what you
get in the 1990s with Fight

1122
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,960
Club.
Well, I know that they actually

1123
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,720
approached the screenwriter of
The Graduate to adapt Fight

1124
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,200
Club.
Like they wanted him to write

1125
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,200
the script because they found so
many themes.

1126
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:52,560
They're like, this guy totally
gets it.

1127
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,520
It's a movie about malaise.
And he was like, absolutely not,

1128
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,520
go find somebody else to rate
this movie.

1129
01:03:58,080 --> 01:03:59,040
So.
I did not have.

1130
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,440
That dude, yeah, I think two
really good movies you could

1131
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,760
play this up with.
Also, Bob, I I think that

1132
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,480
whatever goal you had setting
out to do this podcast, yeah, I

1133
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,680
think you accomplished it.
If if I'm referencing a movie

1134
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:17,920
from 3035 years before, not even
knowing that that was a direct

1135
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,440
reference.
Like we've, we've made it, dude.

1136
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,440
We.
We have arrived, my friend.

1137
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,240
All right, Brad, I, I feel
better.

1138
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,640
I, I still think this movie is
irresponsible.

1139
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,400
I don't think it's inept
anymore.

1140
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,160
And I'm looking through like a
lot of the notes I took on this

1141
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,240
movie, especially towards the
beginning.

1142
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,040
Let me read this.
I thought I wrote this quite

1143
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,080
well.
This, this still holds true.

1144
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,200
I had a big problem with the
first like 10-15 minutes of the

1145
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,840
movie where he's kind of an
unreliable narrator and random

1146
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,280
stuff is happening and you don't
understand how it all adds up.

1147
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,360
And I said that the intro to the
character works thematically.

1148
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,400
It is a scattered mishmash of
his thoughts and impressions of

1149
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,040
the world, his consumerism, his
dissatisfaction with his

1150
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,200
corporate life, his insomnia.
It is a schizophrenic depiction

1151
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:12,040
of what you come to learn is
burgeoning schizophrenia, but it

1152
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,440
doesn't work as a narrative hook
because it's not presented as a

1153
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,960
descent into schizophrenia.
It's presented as a reliable

1154
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,960
narrator and his introduction to
his world, and you have no idea

1155
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:24,760
what's going on or what's
important.

1156
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,880
And I'd still think that, like
as I move into final scores, the

1157
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,200
last half hour of this movie is
really, really good.

1158
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,000
Yeah, the.
First hour and 40 minutes were a

1159
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,400
real struggle for me, man.
And last time we watched this

1160
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,760
movie, I want to say I gave it a
three or a 2 1/2 out of 10.

1161
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:44,920
Really.
Low dude.

1162
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:50,320
I still think by and large this
movie does not work OK, but I

1163
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,840
respect the swing of it a little
more this time.

1164
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:55,960
It's a swing and a miss, but it
was a hell of a swing.

1165
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,000
I'm going to come out to a I'm
going to come out to a 5 out of

1166
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:00,680
10 on this movie, bro.
OK.

1167
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,240
That's a little bit of a
movement, Bob.

1168
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:03,800
I'm proud of you.
Yeah, yeah.

1169
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:07,240
Thank you.
I mean I still think that Fight

1170
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,240
Club technically is really well
made.

1171
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:16,040
I like everything you just read.
I'm with you 100% except for on

1172
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:20,200
how it made me feel like.
And whether you like it or not,

1173
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,800
Fincher does not treat the
audience well in this movie.

1174
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:28,880
Like he, he doesn't make you
feel good for thinking that

1175
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,080
Edward Norton is a reliable
narrator.

1176
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,280
And I'm like, like, that's
interesting to me.

1177
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:39,320
That is not the norm when it
comes to filmmaking.

1178
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,600
And so I'm, I'm interested in
things like that.

1179
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,160
I think that it makes for a
better movie.

1180
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,760
And when you add in some of the
great performances on top of

1181
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,840
that, we didn't even talk about
like the lighting of this movie

1182
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:56,160
and how I I think he really does
a masterful job of using color

1183
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,280
in the film there.
There's so much of this that I

1184
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,640
think it's technically really
well made.

1185
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:06,040
And on top of that, you have a
really interesting story that is

1186
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:11,680
not taken down a notch once you
know the twist.

1187
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,680
Like, you know, and obviously if
it's spoiled for you, that is

1188
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,280
the worst ruining.
But like, once you've seen the

1189
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,520
movie, you come back to it and
you're like, yeah, this is still

1190
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,240
a compelling film, even knowing
the huge twist.

1191
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,440
It's why I still like 6 Sixth
Sense a lot.

1192
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,200
It's why I still like this movie
a lot.

1193
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,560
It's not a perfect movie.
I, I don't think it's like a

1194
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,840
nine, 9 1/2 out of 10.
I might have given it a nine in

1195
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,280
season 1.
I think I'll give it an 8 1/2

1196
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,520
this time.
I, I think that Fincher does a

1197
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,280
great job overall.
And you, you kind of have to

1198
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,480
reconcile with the fact that a
lot of audience members who like

1199
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,400
this movie like it for a lot of
reasons that might not be

1200
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:54,760
healthy.
Yeah.

1201
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,280
And and that's hard.
And I don't want to hold that

1202
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:00,720
against the the actual product
of the movie 'cause it's

1203
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,560
possible that this is like a 10
out of 10 movie that people

1204
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:05,800
still misread and is very
dangerous that way.

1205
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,280
I just think that there are
actual problems with the film

1206
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,160
itself and not least of which,
Brad, You know, you bring up The

1207
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:15,200
6th Sense again when you rewatch
The 6th Sense with the twist in

1208
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,240
mind, you start to poke holes in
it a little bit and, like, it's

1209
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:20,960
kind of cutesy and it's kind of
gimmicky.

1210
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,840
How like, oh, Bruce Willis never
touches anybody or, like, sure

1211
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,560
is never actually in the room,
never says anything to the mom.

1212
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,120
We never.
And it's like, oh, that's a

1213
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:30,279
gimmick.
Yeah.

1214
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:33,680
But crucially, The 6th Sense
still works because of the other

1215
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,000
stuff.
Like that final scene with Haley

1216
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,600
Joel Osment and the mom in the
car is like, that's why I

1217
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:40,600
watched The 6th Sense.
I don't care about the gimmick

1218
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:41,399
anymore.
Yeah.

1219
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,640
And I feel like all those little
gimmicky things that happened in

1220
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:49,040
The Sixth Sense happened twice
as often in Fight Club, and the

1221
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:53,600
movie relies on them.
Like you, you come in here a lot

1222
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,960
with a criticism that, like
nobody in this movie behaves

1223
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,600
like a human being.
Sure.

1224
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:01,920
Edward Norton's motivations
throughout this movie are like,

1225
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,920
what?
What is he doing and why?

1226
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,000
And it kind of works as a satire
'cause it's very like blown out

1227
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,920
of proportion.
Like, why is he living in this

1228
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,080
dilapidated house for months on
end?

1229
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,800
Why is he doing any of this?
Why is he putting up with Darla

1230
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:16,080
or Marla?
Sorry.

1231
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,960
And I'm like.
Darla from the Little Rascals.

1232
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,200
From the Little Rascals, Dear
Darla.

1233
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:29,840
Anyway, all that to say I I do
wonder if people forgive a lot

1234
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,479
in this movie because they think
it's cool to go back and watch

1235
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:36,120
the twist happen again, but like
the movie just does not hold

1236
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,319
together for me as well as other
twisty movies do.

1237
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,399
Because it it relies so much on
the twist.

1238
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,720
Yeah, and like, you can't the
the characters don't behave like

1239
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,279
real people because they have to
behave specific ways to make the

1240
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:52,920
twist happen.
See, I, I think it's great

1241
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:56,120
because there's, there's the
moments where Brad Pitt is

1242
01:09:56,120 --> 01:10:00,040
screaming at Bob, the fat guy
who Edward Norton actually

1243
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,680
really likes.
And then Edward Norton goes out

1244
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,480
and grabs his bag.
He's like, Bob, come on, man,

1245
01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:06,640
come on.
And then to look back and be

1246
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:10,080
like, Bob, just experienced
Edward Norton do both of those

1247
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,480
things.
I, I love that.

1248
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,600
I think that's so funny.
Oh, man, All right, guys, we're

1249
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:19,960
coming out to a 6.75 out of 10
on Fight Club on average, which

1250
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,760
I know is the perfect score for
us, Brad, because I'm not

1251
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,440
satisfied with that score and I
know that you're not either.

1252
01:10:25,440 --> 01:10:29,000
So that's like it's a great dude
take talking point.

1253
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,320
I'm even just thinking about the
way they twist Bob's death.

1254
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,840
Like what?
Great writing, dude.

1255
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,000
When when, when?
Edward Norton is like, no, what

1256
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:40,480
the hell are you talking about?
He's not a.

1257
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:42,400
Nameless.
No, he has a name.

1258
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:44,280
He.
Has A and then they immediately

1259
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,400
in death we have his.
Name His name was Robert Paulson

1260
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:49,680
all.
Right.

1261
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,040
Stop waxing poetic.
We want to know what you think

1262
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,800
about Fight Club.
Whose team are you on here, me

1263
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:58,800
or Brad?
Let us know on any of our social

1264
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:03,000
media accounts, Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, TikTok or

1265
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,280
YouTube at Film Whiskey.
We also want to know if Bob and

1266
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,040
I were to start a Fight Club,
who would win?

1267
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,760
I mean, I I've got the boobs for
it so.

1268
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:18,960
Yeah, you would win in the in
the testicular cancer group,

1269
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:20,800
Bob.
No thanks so much Brad.

1270
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,200
What a weird quote to pull from
this episode.

1271
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:29,600
Also I will say maybe my
favorite line of the whole movie

1272
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,560
is just when he's like sulking
and his voice over goes this

1273
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:37,320
chick Marlo Singer did not have
testicular cancer.

1274
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,880
So funny dude.
Oh man.

1275
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,720
If you want to join the
conversation, we are on discord

1276
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,040
every single day.
We've got a great server full of

1277
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:49,040
people that are awesome and we
talk about whiskey and movies

1278
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,520
and other stuff.
If you want to join, you can

1279
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,360
find a link to our server at the
end of every single one of our

1280
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,760
show notes.
We'll be back next week with

1281
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,560
another one of our Season 1
classics to talk about.

1282
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,960
Probably not one featuring
testicular cancer and man boobs,

1283
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,760
but you never know folks.
So join us next week.

1284
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:12,840
But until then, I'm Bob Book,
I'm Brad G and we'll see you

1285
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:13,360
next time.