American Beauty (1999) / Crown Royal Blended Canadian Whisky

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In 1999, director Sam Mendes and
star Kevin Spacey gave the world

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a deeply satirical look at the
corporatized shell of 90s

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suburbia.
In 2025, we drink a whiskey that

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begs the question, do you like
getting nailed by the king?

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The film is American Beauty.
The whiskey is Crown Royal.

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Do you get it?
Do you get it, Brad?

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You know, it took me a minute,
Bob, I, I, I think I finally

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understood the reference.
Guys, this is the Film and

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Whiskey podcast.
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad Gee.
And before we go any further in

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talking about this 1999 Best
Picture winner, we've got a big

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announcement film and Whiskey
Nation.

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Brad, this is your news to
share.

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I the floor is yours, Sir.
You can say whatever you want,

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but ideally the big news.
My wife and I have had our third

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child.
Baby, let's.

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Congratulations Sir, Brad is a
dad times 3 and you know I

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couldn't be happier for you man.
This is literally the first time

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we've talked since you had a
baby.

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I was like save it for the pod.
I don't even want to hear how

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this baby is doing.
I, I don't want to be like that

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guy, but like, since my wife had
the baby Bob, I, I, in fact,

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this is getting into a realm
that we don't need to get into,

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but my wife is filling out the,
all the information of like

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Social Security card and mom and
this and that.

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And it asked for the birthing
person's gender and it gave her

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the male and female option.
And she goes, she goes.

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Man, that head was way too big
to fit out of a penis.

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And that'll do it for us this
week, folks.

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Thank you for joining us on the
Film and Whiskey podcast.

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Now, Brad, it's good to have you
back.

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I can already tell how sleep
deprived you are because that

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story would not have made it out
in any other episode.

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But welcome in to Film and
Whiskey.

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In order to balance out Brad and
his insane takes, today we have

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brought along a guest who is
joining us for probably what the

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the 4th or 5th time now it's our
friend Noah Getel.

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Noah, how are you, man?
Guys, we've met before, but

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something tells me you're going
to Remember Me this time.

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Let's go.
Do you have any huge

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announcements that that could
potentially get us cancelled or

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just the 1 today?
I still do not have any

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children.
OK, that's good to to your

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knowledge.
Yeah, I get it, man.

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Noah, it's really good to have
you back on the show, man.

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Since the last time we spoke, I
have been plugging Baseball the

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movie everywhere I can possibly
think to.

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I was actually a guest on
another unrelated podcast for

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work and the guy was like, we
always ask people for a book

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recommendation and I was like,
Noah could tell baby pick up

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Baseball the movie.
So free promo here for you, my

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friend.
It's a good book and now that

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the Cleveland baseball season is
over, it's the only baseball I'm

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going to get for like 9 months.
Brett.

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Yeah.
Well the if you read the chapter

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on Major League, it does end
with that very sentiment that

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they will lose and you will go
watch Major League to make

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yourself feel better.
So, you know, tonight's the

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night.
Guys, that's that's for sure,

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man.
Honestly, what a great.

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Chaser Man, what a great double
feature pairing with American

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Beauty.
Nothing goes better.

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Than those two.
Classics of American cinema.

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Guys, I want to jump right in
today talking about American

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Beauty.
Obviously, this is a movie that

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we watched way back in season 1.
And folks, if you are new to the

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podcast, welcome into Film and
Whiskey.

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Each week we review a classic
movie and a new glass of

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whiskey.
This season we are going back to

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all the films we reviewed in our
very first season and asking

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ourselves if they held up.
And we have finally arrived at

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one of the more controversial
films in our Season 1 lineup.

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Controversial a little bit
because of the subject matter.

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I think in the age of of cancel
culture, this movie has it's not

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even really taken on its own
terms so much anymore.

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It's more controversial because
of who's in it now.

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And I think that we'll get,
we're going to have to get into

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that, Brad.
That Thora, that Thora Birch,

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all of her controversy.
She's the worst, am I right?

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As we get into the movie, I have
to ask you, Brad, had you

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watched this movie in the
interim between Season 1 and

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Season 10?
Bob, this is a very rare answer

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to that question.
Yes, I have really.

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I made I made my 2 best friends
sit down and watch it and they

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felt very uncomfortable and they
liked it a lot.

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Like, hey, guys, I need you to
like, flank me on both sides of

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this couch, like, like Allison
Janney and Wes Bentley on either

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side of Chris Cooper.
Can you just like as we watch

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this movie, as I watch this
film?

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No, I'm gonna throw this over to
you, man.

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We gave you a list of movies to
choose from, and this was, I

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think it gave us a couple
options.

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But you were like, I will for
sure join you for American

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Beauty if no one has signed up
for that.

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So my first question to you,
what the hell man?

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It's my favorite movie of all
time.

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No, no.
It's not no, no, no, Come on.

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Why No, because I like digging
into the thorny ones.

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You know, like this was a movie.
Like a lot of people, I loved it

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when it first came out and then
I saw the critical reappraisal

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of it where like it literally
there are dozens of articles

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written by esteemed film critics
like saying this is the movie I

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have turned the most on over the
years from my original opinion.

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And that really interests me.
You know, as somebody who likes

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to look at movies through the
lens of like, we know what were

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the values of the of the, the
country and Hollywood when it

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came out versus now.
Like those are the discussions

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that interest me the most.
So I thought it'd be a fun one

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to dig in to, a difficult one to
dig into and and I'm not really

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doing film criticism anymore so
I can't get cancelled.

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So I thought I was the perfect
person to do this.

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Very.
Beautiful.

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You, you just cancel others
vicariously.

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You come on our show to get us
cancelled now.

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Well, guys, Michael, if we're
going down, we're going down

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together here.
Brad.

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I think that it's a perfect time
to segue into our first segment

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of the day, which we call, Brad
explains.

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Brad's going to give us the
movie plot with only 60 seconds

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ticking on the clock, so let's
go ahead and do your take with

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this little segment that we call
Brad explains.

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Brad explains is the part of the
show where Brad breaks down the

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plot of the film that he has
just seen often for the first

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time.
Obviously is Brad's at least

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third time seeing this movie
now.

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Brad, I got to ask you man,
anything different jump out to

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you this time through or is this
movie been kind of consistent in

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in how you've viewed it and
thought about it?

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I found myself this time through
really intrigued by following

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kind of the thread of like Ricky
being the most mature human

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being in the film, like that,
like that.

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For whatever reason, that just
like frustrated me and was

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fascinating to me all at the
same time.

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And it it feels like this
artistic sense of like it's the

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people who feel the world that
understand the world that I'm

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like, I don't know if that like
sticks through all of Sam

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Mendes's films or if that's an
Alan Ball, you know, type of

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thing, but that that was what I
found myself focused on most.

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I also was like, as I was
preparing for this specific

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segment, I was like, there's a
weirdly a like large amount of

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things that happened in this
movie.

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I think that was my biggest take
away this third time through

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watching American Beauty.
I was like, I forgot how much

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happens and it's like it's like
pretty clean 2 hour film.

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Like it's not like we're hitting
23240.

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Like you're in, you're out and
yet thing after thing and like

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there's like 6 different the
character arcs and storylines

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happening and they all operate
with each other differently and

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they all draw different things
out of each other.

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I I had forgotten how much of A
web this movie really is.

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Yeah, it gets a little
convoluted towards the end of

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the film and I think some would
say contrived and and I'm sure

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we'll talk about the way that
all of these storylines end up

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intersecting each other and
overlapping each other.

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But in order to do that, Brad,
you've got to spoil this movie.

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So folks, if you have not seen
this 25 plus year old film now

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hit pause here.
I would recommend go watch

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American Beauty.
I think it's a worthwhile watch.

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Come back and join us for the
rest of the episode.

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But Brad, you have one minute to
break down the plot of this film

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and go.
American Beauty is a film that

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follows Lester Burnham as the
main character and his family as

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they try to figure out what it
means to be authentic and real

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in a world that has convinced
them that pursuing all of these

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exterior things are important.
Lester finds himself enamoured

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with one of his daughter's high
school friends and is regularly

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fantasizing about her.
His wife is trying to make it as

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a real estate agent and keep
perfection as like her goal in

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life and ends up having a affair
with one of the other real

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estate people in town.
His daughter ends up dating

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their new neighbor who is a pot
selling in kind of introverted,

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artistically minded person.
And her friend who her dad wants

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to sleep with is obsessed with
being a model and being wanted

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and attractive and all these
things.

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And Chris Cooper is a in the
closet farther than any human

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being you could have ever
imagined.

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And at the end of the day, he
shoots Kevin Spacey because

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because he's gay.
That's the, that's the reason

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very concisely.
I like that.

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There was nothing concise about
that, Brad explains.

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Until the reason for the murder.
And then it was like, yeah,

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yeah.
It's because he's gay.

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I felt, I felt the clock pushing
up against me.

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I, I, I didn't have much time
left, Bob.

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Oh, man.
All right, guys, I think that,

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you know, there's some, to
Noah's point, there's some

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thorny places we can go with
this discussion.

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I think I want to zoom out a
little bit and kind of

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contextualize the movie.
And that's why I appreciate Noah

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being here, because there's a
lot of context to add to the

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movie.
I think the first place I'd like

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to start is kind of focusing in
on where does this land on the

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spectrum of satire?
And it's partially because I've

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had one battle after another on
the brain for the last week or

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so.
No, I I know you saw the movie

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and loved it.
I saw the movie and I am one of

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the like 5 people that it did
not fully work for.

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And I think it's because they
didn't quite nail the tone that

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the movie needed.
And I've been thinking about

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like the different types of
satire that we've seen

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throughout the years.
You know, you've got your

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complete farces like a Doctor
Strangelove.

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You've got things where the
world feels kind of Askew and

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absurdist like a la Coen
Brothers.

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Movies I think are really good
at that.

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And then I think 1 Battle After
Another was kind of that like

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Catch 22 type elevated, winking,
witty.

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There's just something a little
bit off about the world, but

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it's not enough to really be
like farcical.

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And then you've got a movie like
American Beauty, which I feel

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like is even more conservative
in the way that it shows the

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absurdities of the world.
It's more just that like

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everyone's kind of snide and
sarcastic and there's some good

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punch lines, but the world
itself is very, very similar to

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what you see in reality.
And I think a good maybe touch

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point is a movie like Office
Space, which I think comes out

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the same year as this movie.
And Office Space just goes maybe

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one step further into the comedy
realm.

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But I'm wondering, you know,
Brad, to your point and know it

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to you, you guys have both
talked about this being a satire

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already.
And so a, do you see it in that

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00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,600
sort of legacy of satires and,
and where would you kind of

225
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:36,560
locate it on that spectrum?
Well, I think it has satirical

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00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:41,960
elements, but I think so a big,
a big problem for me with

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00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,040
satires is when they try to also
be sentimental at the same time.

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00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,720
Like those two things are oil
and and water for me, because

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00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,520
satire requires some emotional
detachment.

230
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,640
Like, that's the only way satire
really works is if you are not

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00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,440
fully engaged and sympathizing
with these characters, if you're

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00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,520
looking at them from Askew, if
you're laughing at them.

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00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,080
And to try to bringing this
emotionality that that Sam

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00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,760
Mendes and Alan Ball bring to
American Beauty is really when

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00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,680
it it loses me, I have to say.
And I think, I think, you know,

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00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,400
Brad talked about how much.
I have a lot more to say about

237
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,320
that.
But for the purposes of this

238
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,320
question, Brad talked about how
much stuff there was in this

239
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,480
movie.
It's not just plot, it's tone.

240
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,080
I mean, this is a satire.
It is a domestic drama.

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00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,360
It's sort of a mystery.
They frame the whole thing as a

242
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,520
who killed Lester Burnham kind
of thing.

243
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,520
I mean, from the very beginning,
from the first scene of the

244
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,600
movie.
And if I, if I had a note for

245
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,280
the script early on, it would be
like, let's just be one thing.

246
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,360
And maybe that would be your
note for one battle after

247
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,200
another as well.
Because that that's a lot of a

248
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,560
lot of movie at the same time.
But I I think American Beauty

249
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,200
works at its best when it is
satire, when it is funny, and a

250
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,600
lot less well when it takes
itself seriously.

251
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,120
It it works well in the moments
where like Kevin Spacey, like

252
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,880
just looks at the camera goes
and just like the little head

253
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:19,120
tilt before he before he throws
the asparagus plate like, oh, it

254
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,960
freaking works.
Dude, Spacey does this thing at

255
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,520
multiple points in the movie.
I think it's the asparagus

256
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:27,800
scene.
And there's a couple others like

257
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,000
when he hands the bag of fast
food out the window where he

258
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,680
does like a bobble head effect
as he does it like like his like

259
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,320
his head is attached to his arm
doing it.

260
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,560
And it's real slight and subtle
and it's just so freaking good,

261
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,240
man.
It's a really, I don't mean to

262
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,080
bleed into the performances here
too much, but part of the reason

263
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,320
that I think the movie
ultimately succeeds is that the

264
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,880
performances are so committed.
And while they are like a touch

265
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,120
heightened, they never seem like
they're in a different movie

266
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,880
from each other or like
characters who exist in a world

267
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,040
that's not being portrayed here
like it.

268
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,000
You know, I think my gripe about
this, the first time we watched

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00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,360
it, Brad was Annette Bening's
character because she is so

270
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,480
heightened throughout the movie.
But then I watched it this time

271
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,560
and I was like, Annette Bening
freaking kills it.

272
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,480
And she's so good at this movie.
Because, you know, maybe it's

273
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,280
just that I've gotten older when
you see people who are fake to

274
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,200
their core like she is, and so
deeply driven by those

275
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,600
insecurities, I wonder to myself
sometimes, like, what are those

276
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,240
people like behind closed doors?
And it turns out they're exactly

277
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,400
like that.
That's just how they are, you

278
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,440
know?
And and I think that she does a

279
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,640
great job of portraying that.
I say all that to say, I think

280
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,960
that the the tone the movie is
going for, it really is a

281
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,680
balancing act to Noah's point,
and whether it succeeds or not,

282
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,400
I think falls on the script a
lot more than it falls on the

283
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,680
actors because I really don't
have a lot of notes on the

284
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,440
performances here.
Yeah, I, I mean to speak to

285
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,440
Annette Bening a little bit.
Like, dude, that moment where

286
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,240
she pushes herself up against
the the window with the shutters

287
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,560
and she starts slapping herself
because she didn't sell the

288
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,800
house.
And you're just like, but yeah,

289
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,079
like, this is just her childhood
playing over and over and over

290
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:22,839
again.
She freaking nails her part.

291
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,599
And I, I would say across the
board, I think even the younger

292
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:31,720
actors in this film really,
really do an incredible job of

293
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,000
bringing to life this world that
no, I would agree with you.

294
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:41,240
It like it's just exaggerated
enough that it feels like you

295
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,200
don't quite know what Mendez is
always going for.

296
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,280
But man, that the performances
across the board, it makes sense

297
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,760
to me why it won a lot of
Academy Awards.

298
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,760
I you know whose performance
really popped to me this time

299
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,480
around was Mina Suvaris.
Like I thought she would.

300
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,280
She is like genuinely great in
this movie.

301
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,000
She brings so much depth to that
character that like the first

302
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,520
time you watch it, you just you,
you don't really see and you see

303
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,080
her breakdown at the end.
But when you watch it knowing

304
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,640
like what her kind of her secret
is, I think, you know, that

305
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,440
character could have been a
stock character.

306
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,400
It could have been a caricature
in a lot of ways, but she she

307
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,000
really brought a lot to it.
I was very impressed with her.

308
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,360
It sounds like we're moving into
the performances here because

309
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:32,480
we've talked about like 3 people
already, but I think I'll start

310
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,400
it off this way.
I'll give my my mean guy take.

311
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,840
The only bad performance in this
movie or the only actor who I

312
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,560
felt had incredibly limited
range was Thora Birch as the

313
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,640
daughter.
I thought that every line

314
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,520
reading, like every line reading
was very, very bad.

315
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,680
And the moments of hers that
worked are when she doesn't have

316
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,160
any lines and she gets to like
show complex emotion on her

317
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,200
face.
But you know, Brad, I think when

318
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,520
we talked about this the last
time you had you had brought up

319
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,440
Wes Bentley as a guy that you
were like, man, that what a

320
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,400
boring guy, what a boring
character.

321
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,680
And this time watching him, the
entire movie hinges on that

322
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,680
plastic bag scene, which has
been parodied to death.

323
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:18,240
And people who are not fans of
this movie pillory that scene.

324
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,840
Again, I think any fault people
might have with the movie is on

325
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,720
the writing, which is sometimes
seen as overwrought.

326
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,400
But to be able to put a camera
on this guy's face and have him

327
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,760
tell a story about a plastic bag
dancing with him and revealing

328
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,000
the face of God, and he's
choking up crying about how much

329
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,680
beauty there is in the world?
It freaking worked for me, man.

330
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,560
And it worked because the
performance was so committed and

331
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,920
the performance was so
authentic.

332
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,240
It felt like I was looking into
that guy's real inner thoughts

333
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,920
as he gave that speech.
As silly as that speech might

334
00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,320
be, it works for me, Brad.
Yeah, I I'm with you, dude.

335
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,080
This time through, I found
myself so drawn in by his

336
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,160
character and his
characterization of it, that his

337
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:15,760
ability to think deeply about
the world, his ability to use

338
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,400
his attention well.
And I think, I think that's

339
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,920
like, you know, the key element
of his character.

340
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,400
He's always.
Mendez is always drawing our

341
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,440
attention to the way he pays
attention to the world through

342
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,880
his use of videotaping
everything.

343
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,640
And when you look at every
single other character in the

344
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:41,320
film, all of their attention is
on the wrong thing constantly.

345
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,120
And it seems like, you know, he
is the hero of our Ricky is the

346
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:49,040
hero of our story because he has
the ability to pay attention to

347
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,280
the things that matter.
And Thora Birch is kind of

348
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,200
slowly coming along that way
with him.

349
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,200
And everybody else is just
spiraling out into their own

350
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,040
bits of chaos because of their
inability to pay attention to

351
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,320
the things that matter.
Yeah.

352
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,040
I'm listening to guys talk about
this and I'm a little distracted

353
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,920
because I don't know when it's
my when it's the right time for

354
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,680
me to say.
I think this movie is pretty

355
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,680
bad.
No, no, no.

356
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,320
No.
You're out of here.

357
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,560
We're kicking you out, man.
Well, I can't, I can't let this

358
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,360
keep going without me saying
that because I do think there

359
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:34,320
are some, I do think there are
some good performances, although

360
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,960
I think even some of the good
performances are in kind of in

361
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:44,400
the wrong movie in some ways.
And I, I, you know, when this

362
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,600
movie came out, there were a lot
of movies at this time about

363
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,480
guys who work in offices.
You mentioned one of them before

364
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,560
who are so miserable that the
only way they can survive is to

365
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,000
sort of develop an alternative
personality.

366
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,840
And in Office Space, he gets
hypnotized.

367
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,120
And in the Matrix, you know, he
goes into the Matrix and in

368
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,560
Fight Club he becomes Tyler
Durden.

369
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,120
And in this movie, you know,
Kevin Spacey transforms into

370
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:14,560
this other guy.
Basically.

371
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,080
It is sort of like he becomes
Tyler Durden in a way, right?

372
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,880
But I, the difference between
those movies in this movie is

373
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,760
that this movie does not
understand how like inherently

374
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:33,600
juvenile and contemptible that
character is like in those other

375
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,640
movies.
Like in those other movies,

376
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,920
we're not supposed to think
these are great guys, you know,

377
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,200
like, and in this movie, I, I
don't know exactly what it is

378
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,960
because I don't think it's fair
to say they that he's the hero

379
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,160
of the movie, but I do think the
movie is aligned with him too

380
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,600
much.
I think the movie sees these

381
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,200
events through his eyes to a
degree that sort of implicates

382
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,200
him as our de facto hero.
Even though I agree with what

383
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,520
you're saying that the Ricky
Fitz character is actually like

384
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,280
the film's, you know, moral
center in a way.

385
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,240
But I don't know if it's Kevin
Spacey's kind of sitcomy

386
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,960
performance or if it's the
script, which, you know, I, I

387
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,480
found it problematic the way
that it, it really blames

388
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,680
Annette Benning's character
Carolyn for their marital

389
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,160
problems so much more than it
does Lester.

390
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,040
So many scenes where it's like,
oh, if she could only loosen up,

391
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,560
you know, everything would be
OK.

392
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,480
But but throughout the film, I
felt like they misunderstand

393
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,520
this character.
They misunderstand how much

394
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200
we're going to dislike him for
trying to fuck a 16 year old,

395
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,680
pardon my language.
And, and they and they

396
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,280
misunderstand the fact that he's
just a a little jerk, you know,

397
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,880
and I know, I know there's more
to it than that.

398
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,360
And and straight white middle
class men have problems too.

399
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,760
But but I, I it really was a
core fundamental problem for me

400
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280
in the movie.
Yeah, I think that's that's

401
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,120
totally fair.
First of all, you should still

402
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,720
be doing film criticism 'cause
that I think, was perhaps the

403
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,040
clearest delineation of why the
movie doesn't work.

404
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,280
One of my big complaints about
the the backlash to this movie

405
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,520
is that a lot of it just seems
like film Twitter backlash.

406
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,080
Like it, it doesn't have a lot
of substance and it's just

407
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,320
become like American Beauty
sucks.

408
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,040
So we don't like it.
And it, it becomes an echo

409
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,520
chamber where there's really no
reckoning with the film itself.

410
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,200
So, so thank you for that.
I think that to your point, the

411
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,840
thing that caught me this time
around was I, I, I had to remove

412
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,560
myself quite a few times from
the movie and ask myself, like,

413
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:49,680
am I imposing 2025 woke goggles
on my reading of this movie too

414
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,360
much?
Because in 1999, a lot of the

415
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:55,840
things that were happening are
objectively not OK, but

416
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,840
audiences were at least willing
to see it through to the end.

417
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,360
Whereas I think now in 2025, a
lot of it's like he's a

418
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:04,280
predator.
Click movies off, you know?

419
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,560
And Kevin Spacey's personal life
certainly has not helped that

420
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,000
argument at all.
I do think that at the end of

421
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,560
this movie when he's about to
sleep with Mina Suvari's

422
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,520
character and, you know, she
says, this is my first time.

423
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,360
And it, it snaps him back to
reality in in a really dramatic

424
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,680
and profound way.
And he covers her in a blanket

425
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,200
and she starts crying and says,
I feel so stupid.

426
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,760
And he gives her a hug and she
says, I'm sorry.

427
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,320
And then he says, you don't have
anything to be sorry about.

428
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,920
And then they cut to the next
scene.

429
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,640
And I was like, you should be
sorry.

430
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,360
You're a 42 year old man.
What are you not?

431
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,720
You're taking no blame for any
of this situation that you have

432
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,840
caused.
What are you doing, man?

433
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:55,480
So I, I do, I do find that
there's definitely points where

434
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,600
they let Lester off the hook in
a way that the other characters

435
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,960
don't get to get off the hook,
but also the other characters

436
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,480
don't get shot in the head.
So I mean it kind of balances

437
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,600
out.
I was, I was about to say, not

438
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,240
getting off the hook would also
include not being dead at the

439
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,720
end of the film.
Like sure.

440
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,720
I don't, I don't know about
that.

441
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,800
I mean, in, in a sense you're
correct, but in another sense,

442
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,240
the guy dies with a smile on his
face and we're listening to him

443
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:23,760
talk at the beginning of the end
of the movie.

444
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,920
He gets the voice over.
He's fine.

445
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,160
Wherever he is.
He seems very, very happy and

446
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,000
at.
Peace So so no, what I hear you

447
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,600
saying is as long as you get to
do a voice over about your life

448
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,200
from whatever your afterlife is
you're you're.

449
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,080
You're happy.
How bad could it?

450
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,080
Yeah.
Right, I want to go back to

451
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,000
something Noah was talking about
before and it's it's the 1999 of

452
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,640
it all.
So 1999 obviously being regarded

453
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,040
as one of the best years for
movies ever.

454
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,080
I think people like to look at
the Oscars best picture lineup

455
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,000
and and Pooh Pooh it because
you've got movies like the Green

456
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,920
Mile, which I love that movie.
I know that it's not a film

457
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,480
Twitter favorite.
The Cider House Rules.

458
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,240
Objectively, I hate that.
That movie sucked, bro.

459
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,760
But then, you know, you've got
movies left out like a Fight

460
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,760
Club, like The Matrix and on and
on down the list.

461
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,800
And so this movie kind of
catches all of the heat because

462
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,600
it won best picture.
You know, it's like a Forrest

463
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,400
Gump situation, like Forrest
Gump beats Shawshank and Pulp

464
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,400
Fiction and Quiz Show.
And so it's like now we hate

465
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,480
Forrest Gump.
Sometimes the worst thing that

466
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,520
can happen to a movie's
reputation is winning Best

467
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,880
Picture.
You know this movie percent man.

468
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,800
I don't know.
That people would like it if it

469
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,200
didn't win, but I do know it
wouldn't have the target on its

470
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,840
back that it it has had since
then.

471
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,240
Noah, you are only a a few years
older than us, so I don't mean

472
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,160
to make you like the resident
old guy on the podcast here, but

473
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,440
you were much more aware of what
was going on in the world in

474
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,960
1999 than Brad and I were at age
9.

475
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,240
So I, I want to ask a little bit
about, you know, the cultural

476
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,200
political climate as well,
because there's a reason that

477
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,960
all of these like angry white
guy movies are getting made in

478
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,120
1999.
And I also think that we have to

479
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,640
situate this kind of satirical
movie among the other satires

480
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,600
that are coming out like a
fight.

481
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,280
Fight Club is a satire.
Like it's not super funny, but

482
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,920
it's a satire.
And Office Space is obviously a

483
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,920
satire.
You look at a movie that comes

484
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,640
out like a year before this,
Primary Colors, which is just

485
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,560
lampooning the the Clinton
administration and all of his

486
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,120
scandals.
Like there's a lot of comedy

487
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:34,880
happening that is really trying
to skewer the American cultural

488
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,520
moment.
And I'm just kind of wondering,

489
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,600
like, is that lost today when we
look back on American Beauty?

490
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,200
It's hard for me to answer as
somebody.

491
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,520
Well, so I was 19 when this
movie came out.

492
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,400
So I wasn't so clued into like
what adults were really seeing

493
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,440
in the world at the time.
I was more into smoking pot

494
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,440
everyday and playing NBA2K on my
I think it was Sega Dreamcast

495
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,600
maybe.
But, you know, I mean, I think,

496
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,520
look, this is these these were
the first Gen.

497
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,200
X movies really that were being
made at this time.

498
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,240
But Gen.
X film makers were getting their

499
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,360
shot to tell their story.
And what they wanted to talk

500
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,760
about was their, you know,
they're ineffectual fathers on

501
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,160
some level.
Like, that's a big, big thread

502
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,440
running through these movies.
They definitely want to talk

503
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,200
about the fact that they, they
didn't want to work for the man.

504
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,760
They didn't want to sell out.
That's what these movies were

505
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,920
about to, you know, you could
throw Reality Bites in the mix,

506
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,480
which is sort of like the
ultimate Gen.

507
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,400
X movie came out a few years
earlier.

508
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,120
But I think they really kind of
tell us who they are.

509
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,440
I don't know if they tell us,
like, what was happening in the

510
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,160
country, although there were sex
scandals at this time for sure.

511
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,960
And this movie, you know,
Primary Colors is a weird one

512
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,520
because I see that movie as not
exactly a defense of what

513
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Clinton did.
But there's this sense that

514
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,680
like, hey, you know, it's
politics.

515
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,600
Stuff happens, man, and it's
just a big circus and you got to

516
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,480
roll with it.
Which, you know, I think Mike

517
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,920
Nichols is probably talking
about his time in Hollywood more

518
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,040
than than politics when he makes
that movie.

519
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,960
But that's the idea.
So I don't think any of these

520
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,240
movies were really willing to
look at what was happening two

521
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,400
young women at this time.
And I don't think America was

522
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,400
either.
You know, when I look back in at

523
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,440
the Lewinsky scandal, I was a
kid that I didn't really know

524
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,760
what was going on.
But I think it's atrocious.

525
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,680
Like, I don't want to get too
political, but I think it's

526
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,960
atrocious the way the Democratic
Party, the party supposedly of

527
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,000
women like covered for Bill
Clinton and made excuses for him

528
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,200
and everything.
So I don't think we as a

529
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,240
culture, we're really ready to
look at that.

530
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,040
And I think, you know, this
generation, I mean, these guys,

531
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,120
Sam Mendes was probably like, I
don't know, 30 years old or

532
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,360
something when he made this
movie.

533
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,000
But all these guys were young
guys and they were, they were

534
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,320
espousing and inherently kind of
juvenile point of view.

535
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,960
And I don't mean juvenile as an
insult.

536
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,800
I mean, they were young and they
were saying, you know what?

537
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,560
I, I, I want to, I don't want to
work in an office.

538
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,960
I want to rock'n'roll all night
and, and, and party everyday.

539
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,440
And that's really what this
movie and, and these movies as a

540
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,680
whole are about.
Nothing more complicated than

541
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,080
that.
I I was going to say, it seems

542
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,440
to me, you know, this being a
third time through for American

543
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,360
Beauty, there's not much
judgement on anybody.

544
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,840
Like I it doesn't seem to me
like Mendez has a position of

545
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,920
trying to make a deep statement
about the world.

546
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,000
It just seems like it's kind of
like, yeah, there's just

547
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:45,360
shitheads all around you in the
world and we should expect them

548
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,840
to be that way.
And I think that the reason I

549
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,720
say that is the way the film
treats Lester's obsession with

550
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,000
this 16 year old is like, yeah,
that's just what a 42 year old

551
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,800
emasculated guy would do.
And that like, that's just

552
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,160
normal.
And you're like, I that is not

553
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,280
normal.
Like that is something that

554
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,040
hopefully as a society we are
moving beyond to think that it's

555
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,200
just normal that a 42 year old,
you know, it's one thing to be a

556
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,800
42 year old dad and go wow, that
high school girl that is friends

557
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,760
with my daughter is pretty and
then move on with his life and

558
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,080
never think about it again.
It's another thing to just act

559
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,440
like it's normal for what
Lester's doing throughout the

560
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,520
film.
And it seems like you see that

561
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,920
for a lot of the characters.
Like, even for her, it doesn't

562
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,600
feel like there's a lot of
judgement for Angela's character

563
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,360
that she wants to sleep around
to get to the top.

564
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,600
See, when I, when I watch this
movie, like it, it, it recalls,

565
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,560
I'm sure intentionally Lolita in
a lot of ways, right?

566
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,760
But Lolita is a satire like that
is a dark satire.

567
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,720
You do not think any of these
men, either of these men are

568
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,160
good guys at all.
But this movie, they try to kind

569
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,240
of take that idea and cram it
into something a little more

570
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,880
sitcomy.
And that's really what I think

571
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,600
doesn't work about it for me.
Like, that could be very

572
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,520
provocative if you want to make
something truly avant-garde and

573
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,800
say, like, look at this sitcomy
family man who's trying to sleep

574
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,280
with his his daughter's best
friend.

575
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,600
But they're not making something
avant-garde.

576
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,040
They're making something crowd
pleasing at the same time.

577
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,640
And I don't think those
ingredients work together.

578
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,680
Well, and I want to I want to
talk a little bit about the word

579
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,240
normal because like when you
think about like what was the

580
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,640
norm back then?
Obviously what I'm not saying

581
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,800
like every 42 year old man was
lusting after a 16 year old.

582
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,960
But there are we, we have lost
the sacred texts of the creepy

583
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,880
late 90s in a lot of ways.
Like I don't know if you guys

584
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,840
remember this like they used to
have, like I remember watching

585
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:57,960
like MTV, VH1 and they would
have like countdowns on of like

586
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,960
underage celebrities until they
like days till they turn 18 and

587
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,600
it's OK for us to want to have
sex with them now.

588
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,639
Like which which is hilarious.
Like just masking the fact that

589
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,239
you clearly want to have sex
with this girl right now at 16,

590
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,560
but you can't say that in polite
society until she's 18.

591
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,960
So this was the kind of thing we
were dealing with in 1999.

592
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,920
And so it's it's objectively
creepy.

593
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,679
It was also something that I
think a lot of people could

594
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,520
recognize as something that was
happening in society.

595
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,120
And I do think Noah too.
One of the other things that is

596
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,080
it really stands out to me now
is like being a millennial

597
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:42,239
turning 18 in the 2008 recession
and then like everything being

598
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,360
everything after that, being
like, you have student loans and

599
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,960
you can't afford anything now.
So like, start from that point

600
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,159
looking at a movie where these
young boomers are able to make

601
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,440
these flippant decisions with
their lives of like, I'm going

602
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,480
to quit my job.
And, and like, his wife

603
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,160
obviously is like, OK, so I have
to pay the mortgage now, right?

604
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,680
Like, they talk about finances a
little bit, but then at one

605
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,560
point Lester says his salary is
like $60,000.

606
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,960
And you're like, oh, man.
Like how how times have changed

607
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,000
when the financial security of a
family could just be up like

608
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,920
thrown into upheaval in 1999.
And it really didn't affect that

609
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,600
much.
You know, Like, it it, it just

610
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,080
seems like there were very
different times.

611
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,960
And these people were much more
privileged than I think they

612
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,760
realized at the time.
Well, the people in this movie

613
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,200
at least.
Like I don't know that.

614
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,760
That's yeah, yeah, for sure.
You know what it would actually

615
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,520
be like in real life?
My hunch is if you quit your job

616
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,520
and and start working fast food
and then buy really expensive

617
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,040
classic sports car, you actually
are going to have some severe

618
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,880
financial problems.
But the film, the film is not

619
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,720
interested in the realness of
this at all that, and I don't

620
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,200
really mean that as a criticism.
I have other criticisms of it,

621
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,720
but I think not wanting to get
into the economics of it is like

622
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,200
that's a justifiable decision in
a way.

623
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,840
Yeah.
And at the end of the day, like

624
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:10,360
the movie is just focused on the
transformation of Lester from a

625
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,800
spineless coward to somebody
who's I've manned up and I'm

626
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,760
taking control of my life.
And he clearly isn't.

627
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,720
But also he you know, he got
that 60 grand all paid out.

628
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,040
He got his severance, he got
health benefits.

629
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,520
He can blow it all.
And you know, we're, we're not

630
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,880
looking at the next the the 10
year plan, Bob.

631
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,040
Well it's a good thing he got
shot because he would had some

632
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,480
some serious bills to pay after
that.

633
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,240
He probably had a nice life
insurance policy.

634
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:40,400
Honestly, it worked out best for
everybody.

635
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,880
Yeah.
Yeah, for everybody.

636
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,320
Oh man, guys, before we go to
break, I do, I do think it's

637
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,160
time to talk about Kevin Spacey.
Obviously, like, you know, let's

638
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,440
put the disclaimer here.
Like it.

639
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,680
We all know what Kevin Spacey is
accused of doing.

640
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,680
He to this day vehemently denies
it.

641
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,360
I'm pretty sure he's been found
liable in in court for doing it,

642
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,360
but he's no longer criminally
liable for it.

643
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,480
So there's no consequences
legally for him.

644
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,040
He is persona non grata in
Hollywood.

645
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,480
We understand, right?
And I'm sorry to be the like,

646
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,560
let's separate art from the
artist guy right now.

647
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,120
But like, this is 1999, we were
not aware of these allegations

648
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,080
for another, you know, almost 20
years about the guy.

649
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,680
We're going to talk about this
performance, which gets him an

650
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,520
Academy Award.
And I say all that, Brad, to

651
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,280
kind of cover my ass a little
bit when I say this might be my

652
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,320
favorite Kevin Spacey
performance because I I just

653
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,560
recently went to the theatre to
see seven.

654
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,480
I'd never seen it on the big
screen.

655
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,320
Holy shit, what a movie, what a
picture.

656
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,080
Still have not seen 7.
It is, yeah.

657
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,640
I mean, it's it's it's mind
blowing.

658
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,160
But seeing Kevin Spacey in this,
it's it's one of those things

659
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,640
where like sometimes you have to
see an actor in very tonally

660
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,720
different roles in in really
close succession to be reminded

661
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:00,280
of what their range actually
was.

662
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,680
Because towards the end there, I
think Spacey was just becoming a

663
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,160
caricature of himself when he
was doing the House of Cards

664
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,800
stuff.
But I've never seen him this

665
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,280
loose in a movie.
I've never seen him like this.

666
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:15,560
I know for a fact that like Jack
Lemmon is a big inspiration on

667
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,560
him.
This performance has Jack Lemmon

668
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,520
written all over it In the
physicality, in the line

669
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,760
deliveries.
I could see Jack Lemmon, you

670
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,240
know, apartment era Jack Lemmon
being slotted into this movie

671
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,920
and giving a very similar
performance to what space he's

672
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,040
trying to do here.
I like that a lot.

673
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,440
That's a that's a good take,
Bob.

674
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,240
Thank you very much.
I like it a lot.

675
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:43,560
I like it a lot too.
I, but I, I don't totally agree

676
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,000
with the performance working.
I think, I think Kevin Spacey's

677
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,600
working really hard and he's
making a lot of choices and I

678
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,840
respect that very much.
But I, I, you know, I don't know

679
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,280
if it's his fault or the
director's fault, but the tone,

680
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,120
the tone of his performance does
not always work for me.

681
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,040
There's too, there's too much
winking at the camera.

682
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,080
There's too much like leaning
forward and saying something in

683
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,480
a quiet voice, like, you know,
like there's a, there's

684
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,360
something contrived about his
performance.

685
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,760
There's something too mannered
about it, too measured about it

686
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,720
that I just don't like.
And I, and I will acknowledge

687
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:22,320
he's got a tough job because he
has to hold all of these tones

688
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,880
basically in his performance.
And it's really hard and maybe

689
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,920
no actor could do it, but I like
him best when he is playing a

690
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,000
bad guy.
Like I think, I think if you

691
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,200
look over his filmography, it's
pretty clear that when he tries

692
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,920
to to play.
And to be clear, you don't think

693
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,640
he's a bad guy in this movie,
Then you think he's the good

694
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,680
guy.
Who you?

695
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,680
Want the hero of the film?
Yeah, if, if, if they pitched

696
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,360
this character as just like a
juvenile, sleazy, you know, a

697
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,760
hole, I think he would be really
good for it.

698
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,400
But I think they like him too
much.

699
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,920
They like this character too
much.

700
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,680
And by they, I mean the film
makers.

701
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,680
But like, when I look over Kevin
Spacey's filmography, like my

702
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,720
favorite performances of his
are, you know, Usual Suspects.

703
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,120
Obviously, I love him in LA
Confidential.

704
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,880
Like I really love him in that
movie.

705
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,560
And it's kind of similar in that
he's a sleazy guy who sort of

706
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,280
becomes a goodish guy by the end
of it, but he's not like.

707
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,000
He's not the main character.
He gets to have his little his

708
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,960
little journey off to the side
while there is somebody who's

709
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,840
actually righteous, you know,
that Exley character played by

710
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,040
Guy Pierce, who kind of holds
the movie down.

711
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:38,680
And I just think as a as AI,
don't I, I, I just don't, I just

712
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,960
don't buy him in this role.
When all is said and done, he's

713
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,440
too.
He's too sleazy for me to really

714
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,400
like, buy him as a suburban dad
and I.

715
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,320
Think part of the issue and and
for me, it worked because I I

716
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,880
felt like something clicked for
me in the scene where Annette

717
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,080
Bening catches him masturbating
in bed next to her.

718
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,120
And then they have the big
argument and he's talking about

719
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,640
like, you know, chafing the
carrot, choking the Bishop.

720
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,280
Some really great metaphors
there.

721
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,800
That scene is played like both
of their performances and the

722
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:19,120
dialogue is played like an old
Hollywood, not screwball comedy,

723
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,880
but like that sort of like Rock
Hudson, Doris Day era comedy

724
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,000
where you have these like
zingers, not quite one liners,

725
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,560
but it's all about the timing.
And it's about a, you know,

726
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,520
being a little bit more clever
than people actually are.

727
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,080
And I realized at that moment
that like the comedy in this

728
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,680
movie is pitched to like old
Hollywood.

729
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,040
And I kind of wonder if that is
a little bit intentional because

730
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,480
this movie is so much about,
like, the facade of suburbia,

731
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,040
the facade of, like, this 1950s
American idyllic dream.

732
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,880
To the point where, like, by the
end of the movie, when all the

733
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,160
masks are off and Annette Bening
is just like, weeping in the

734
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,440
closet, grabbing his shirts and
letting out this scream.

735
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,360
And you finally get Spacey kind
of letting down his guard and

736
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,520
everything clicking for him and
him realizing how juvenile he's

737
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,120
been.
I think that juxtaposition of

738
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,920
tones is what makes the ending
of the movie work 'cause it's

739
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,760
like everybody realizes how full
of shit they've been the whole

740
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,320
movie.
And now finally it's like, oh,

741
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:24,920
we're all maybe capable of
having a real moment.

742
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,240
And the tragedy of the movie is
that it's it's too late for

743
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:29,240
Kevin Spacey at that point, but.
That's interesting.

744
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,160
So you're saying they're all
playing parts throughout the

745
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,720
movie, which I think is true,
and you're saying that they they

746
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:41,600
harness like kind of contrived a
genre kind of energy to convey

747
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,080
that to the audience.
That's an interesting take.

748
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,040
I haven't heard that before.
Look.

749
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,560
At you, Bob.
This is why I bring you on.

750
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,400
My guy knows how to stroke an
ego.

751
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,680
He's very good at this.
No, honestly, Bob, I'm I'm kind

752
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,320
of with you.
I think Spacey is brilliant in

753
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:05,240
the role and for me it comes
down to the and I I know this

754
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,920
isn't this is the exact opposite
of what Noah was saying.

755
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:15,440
His sincerity in the role shines
through that he is 100% this

756
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:23,280
completely burnt out, angry with
his life, just like questioning

757
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,760
what the F happened to my life.
And you see it when he's trying

758
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,000
to, like, seduce Annette Bening
on the couch.

759
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,320
And he's asking her, like, what
happened to us?

760
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,800
Like, where'd we go?
And like, that's his question

761
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,760
He's asking throughout the whole
movie is like, when did I become

762
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,320
who I am?
When did you become who you are?

763
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,520
And all of the things he does in
response to that question feel

764
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,120
authentic and real.
And yes, like some of them are a

765
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:56,880
little bit satirical in the way
he gets his severance from from

766
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,960
his boss by, you know, basically
blackmailing them into giving

767
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:02,600
him a good severance.
Like there's elements of it that

768
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,080
feel little bit overwrought.
But in the midst of all that,

769
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,480
there's not a single thing that
feels like A and then he did

770
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,640
this and then he did that.
Like it all feels like the story

771
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,240
leads him to a place that makes
sense for his character to do

772
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:22,600
those things, and with a story
underlying that, I think

773
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,920
Spacey's performance really
takes that character to the next

774
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,240
level.
I've been thinking a lot about,

775
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,600
I've been thinking about
Hollywood lately.

776
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,040
I can't remember what brought it
up for me, but do you guys

777
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:42,200
remember in like the early 2000s
when a a large cabal of

778
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,280
celebrities got really into
Kabbalah for a while?

779
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,280
Like, that was the religion of
choice.

780
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,440
Madonna was, I think, leading
the charge on that.

781
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,320
And it was kind of like the
competing weird religion with

782
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,560
Scientology for a while in
Hollywood.

783
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,000
And you, you kind of come to
find out about like some of the

784
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,160
tenets of the cults that
celebrities are attached to in

785
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,280
Hollywood.
And you're just like, why?

786
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,360
Why are people like this?
And and then you kind of think

787
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,880
about like, what is like
Hollywood is just a giant sham

788
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,840
where everybody's pretending to
be somebody they aren't to get

789
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,960
ahead.
And I, I mean, I'm making

790
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,600
generalizations at this point.
But I thought about that

791
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:28,000
watching this movie that like,
when you live your life in a

792
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,160
preposterous place, like your
solutions to your problems are

793
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,800
all going to be preposterous.
And I think that this movie is

794
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,560
just a collection of people who
live in a preposterous place in

795
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,600
the suburbia of the late 1990s
and are trying really

796
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,880
desperately hard to fix those
problems by, like, doubling down

797
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,280
and finding the most ludicrous
ways to do so.

798
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,440
Like Kevin Spacey's response is
like, I'm going to quit my job.

799
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,680
I'm going to pretend I don't
care.

800
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,880
I'm going to smoke a bunch of
weed and basically become Randy

801
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,600
Marsh from South Park for a
while.

802
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,520
And then, like, at the end of
the movie, I'm going to realize

803
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,520
this is no way to live.
And Annette Bening does the same

804
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,920
thing by, like, screwing this
other guy, listening to these

805
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,160
dumb self help tapes, repeating
mantras, and then realizing at

806
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,480
the end of the movie this is no
way to live.

807
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,120
And to your point, Brad, it's
it's the kind of thing that is

808
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,920
like the tried and true trope of
the village idiot is the only

809
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,520
sane one in the movie with
Ricky.

810
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,160
But I don't know, man.
Like, I, I know that it is

811
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,160
heightened and it's a little bit
satirical.

812
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,960
It doesn't feel that far off to
me to how people live their

813
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:41,200
lives in these kind of weird,
cloistered, secluded communities

814
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,120
across the country.
Well, well.

815
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,120
Well, what?
What is so weird about this

816
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,120
community?
Like I, I feel like this is a

817
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,840
pretty normal average community.
I mean, it's a, they're a little

818
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,480
more money than average, but
they're not like rich rich

819
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,560
either, as we know.
What what is so unusual about it

820
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,360
too?
I mean the teenagers seem pretty

821
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,320
normal and average to me except
for Ricky who is like from

822
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,720
another planet.
Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe you're

823
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:11,320
right.
Maybe it's not the community

824
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,760
itself, but it's the sort of rat
race life that these people are

825
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,520
being asked to live.
I I'm not sure.

826
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,040
Well, now, do you?
Sound like a Gen.

827
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,080
X or not a millennial I have to
say.

828
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,360
You know what, Noah, that
reminds me too, 'cause you were

829
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,280
talking about this being like a
a Gen.

830
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,200
X movie because Sam Mendes is so
young when he directs this and

831
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,600
he's very much a Gen.
X filmmaker.

832
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,120
But I wonder sometimes.
Sometimes I'm wondering right

833
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:42,440
now, 'cause it just dawned on me
like, is this actually is, is

834
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,720
part of the reason this movie
doesn't seem to have a message

835
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:49,480
to you, because it's a Gen.
X filmmaker making a movie about

836
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,720
boomers and millennials from a
Gen.

837
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:58,960
X standpoint and failing to
locate like, the moral center of

838
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,920
that generation.
Brad, you said that this movie

839
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,160
is like really permissive to
everybody in the movie.

840
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,320
Part of me wonders if it's
because, like, that

841
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,800
permissiveness or that sort of
like, cynical shrug is very

842
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,320
emblematic of Gen.
X film makers.

843
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:21,440
And he's trying really hard to,
like, put that viewpoint onto

844
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,880
Lester and onto the kids in the
movie.

845
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,960
But there's really no Gen.
X characters in the movie to

846
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:33,080
kind of take that mantle on.
No, there really isn't, man.

847
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,960
Maybe, but I I think Ricky Fitz
sort of is the Gen.

848
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,320
X avatar in the movie.
I mean he's the film makers

849
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,040
avatar for sure because he is a
filmmaker in in the movie.

850
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,800
No.
But he's, you know, he's the one

851
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,400
who's like, I don't, I don't
have to live like, like either

852
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,920
my father figure across the
street or my actual father.

853
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,680
I'm going to go live however the
hell I want.

854
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,120
I'm just going to sell weed and
treat my jobs like they're

855
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,320
meaningless and, you know, just
go to New York just because I

856
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,160
can.
I don't even need an education.

857
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,240
I think that's kind of the Gen.
X attitude that's present in the

858
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,000
film.
I will.

859
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,120
I will say you talked about
contrived characters before.

860
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,800
The only character for me that
feels really contrived is

861
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,680
Ricky's mom.
What is the deal with her?

862
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:29,040
Like like Ricky's dad is on the
edge of being contrived, but I

863
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,760
think Chris Cooper just Oh my
God, dude, what a freaking

864
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,680
performance.
Chris Cooper is incredible.

865
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,560
The mom.
I'm sorry but like the idea that

866
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:49,080
she's that far gone because of
Chris Cooper's like militaristic

867
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,080
household is ridiculous to me.
That you know, Ricky walks in.

868
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:00,360
Hey mom, this is my girlfriend
and she just stares for like 5

869
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,360
solid seconds of like radio
silence.

870
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,200
I'm like.
OK, here's the thing.

871
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,920
This is why I love the movies,
though, because I agree with

872
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,000
everything you say.
Like I It's a bad character.

873
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,120
It doesn't make sense.
Allison Janney is trying her

874
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,600
best.
And the reason that I don't care

875
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:26,160
is because of the very last
thing she says to her son when

876
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,640
he's like, I'm going to go.
And she's just like, she can't

877
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,920
muster up anything else except
just, like, wear a raincoat.

878
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:38,960
And she's like, kind of crying.
And I'm like, oh, dude, yeah, A+

879
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,000
performance.
I don't care.

880
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,080
Your character sucks, but you're
doing your best.

881
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,960
Allison Janney, This is why we
nominate you for Oscars.

882
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:47,360
It's a green.
Line.

883
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,520
It's the essence of parenting,
right?

884
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:51,120
Wear a raincoat.
That's all you.

885
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:52,720
That's all you.
Yeah.

886
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,400
Is that another?
Is that another euphemism?

887
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,640
Brad, I think it's time for us
to hit pause here.

888
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,840
We need to go drink some whiskey
and we have got a doozy of a

889
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,000
whiskey today in Crown Royal, a
whiskey I have not tried since

890
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,960
season 1.
What do you say we jump into

891
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,400
that?
Let's get to it, man.

892
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:22,840
All right, so today we are
checking out Crown Royal Blended

893
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,600
Canadian Whiskey.
Brad, it's been a while since

894
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,400
we've had a Canadian whiskey on
the show.

895
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,760
And that is because frankly,
Canadian whiskey is not always

896
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,320
that good.
And I stand by it.

897
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,680
I'm, I'm just going to say it.
There are definitely good

898
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,360
Canadian whiskeys out there.
But part of what makes Canadian

899
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,680
whiskey so inexpensive and not
beloved by especially bourbon

900
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,360
drinkers is that the Canadian
whiskey process typically

901
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,800
doesn't involve using new
charred barrels the way that

902
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,720
bourbon will.
They typically age their whiskey

903
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:58,120
in used barrels.
So they're sourcing barrels from

904
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,000
Ireland, from Scotland, from
America, from bourbon and rye

905
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,400
barrels, and they're aging their
whiskey in that.

906
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,880
And so it is it, it's much less
potent because it's extracting

907
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,160
less from the wood because these
are second, third, fourth fill

908
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,920
barrels.
But you'll also see Canadian

909
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,880
whiskey aged for a lot longer
than you would see like a

910
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,040
bourbon aged.
I think at one point we we may

911
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,840
have had a a 20 year Canadian
whiskey on this podcast at one

912
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:25,800
time.
And it's still only cost like

913
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,040
$40.
Right.

914
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,800
Listen, when it gets up to that
age level, you're getting a lot

915
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,480
out of the wood and it's not
overwrote.

916
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,960
And I actually find some really
well aged Canadian whiskeys to

917
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,680
be quite good that that says
nothing about what we're

918
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,760
drinking here today.
But just ask a a brief little

919
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,200
primer on Canadian whiskey.
That's why we don't have it that

920
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,600
much.
I I think it's pronounced primer

921
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:53,000
A.
What's that all a boot?

922
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,920
Am I right?
Dude I I'm kind of on the

923
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,680
opposite end.
Like cheap Canadian whiskey.

924
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,360
I'm with you.
Not great.

925
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,560
Anything from their mid range
up.

926
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,280
I have really enjoyed what comes
out of OH.

927
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,480
Absolutely.
The the great white N kind of

928
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,520
knows what it's doing when it
comes to that longer age, stated

929
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,920
Whiskeys.
So the Crown Royal that we're

930
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,520
drinking today, I believe is at
least three years old.

931
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,800
I think it has to be at least
three years old to not carry an

932
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,320
age statement.
I'm not entirely sure how old it

933
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,680
is because this is like the most
blended of blended whiskeys.

934
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,240
I'm seeing in various places
online that Crown Royal is made

935
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,120
from a blend of up to 50
different whiskeys.

936
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,800
Even though that they they claim
that roughly 80% of their grain

937
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,320
is sourced from Manitoba and the
surrounding provinces, it's

938
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,200
still such a huge blend that
it's not going to have like a

939
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,800
super distinct character.
It will be probably very

940
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,760
consistent from batch to batch
because they're just blending so

941
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,240
much whiskey here.
It is 80 proof, so it barely

942
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:58,360
qualifies to be sold in your
local liquor store.

943
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,160
I don't want to like knock this
though, man.

944
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,280
I, we can have AI have a tiny
little bottle of Crown Royal.

945
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,280
This cost me $0.99.
And if it tastes good, I'm going

946
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,280
to say that it tastes good.
Yeah, I really like, I don't

947
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,440
want to be a snob about this.
Like it's cheap whiskey.

948
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,440
We know what it is.
And I think we're going to go

949
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,600
into this tasting with that
understanding.

950
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,040
Yeah, absolutely.
Dude, when I got under the nose

951
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:27,800
for this, there it is not a
complex whiskey Bob, but the the

952
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:32,520
notes that I got were vanilla
cream soda, effervescent, just

953
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:38,760
like a really pleasant like
sweet experience.

954
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,800
It's a 7 out of 10 on the nose.
It it's fine.

955
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,960
It was good, yeah.
Yeah, I'm going to give it a 6

956
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,680
1/2 on the nose because it it
smells like it's been watered

957
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,320
down, almost like it doesn't
have any sort of ethanol that

958
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,120
you have to push through to get
any notes.

959
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,680
I will say that like the second
I poured it into my glass, the

960
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,440
overwhelming note I got was
honeydew, which is like I don't

961
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,520
typically get that on whiskey.
Sometimes you'll get like

962
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,320
pineapple or a little bit of
some some sort of a melon.

963
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,640
This was like just straight
honeydew.

964
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,240
I thought it was really, really
great.

965
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:13,000
And then it became, like you
said, cream soda and vanilla

966
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,920
really took over for me.
It almost reminds me of like a

967
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,120
diet cream soda.
Like there's a little bit of

968
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,000
like an artificial note going on
here.

969
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,800
But again, to have just those 3
notes on like a, you know, $20

970
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,680
bottle of whiskey is not bad.
So I'm going to give it a 6 1/2

971
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,800
on the nose.
Yeah, I think the palette, it

972
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,840
sticks in that vanilla for me,
it turned into like a vanilla

973
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,880
bean kind of note.
It is very much so like a yellow

974
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,600
cake with white frosting.
There was like a hint of a light

975
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,640
brown sugary vibe going on that
I think you're starting to get

976
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,720
from the oak.
It's a fine palette.

977
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,400
I'll give it a 6 1/2 out of 10.
Yeah, it's really thin.

978
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,760
It's really sweet.
And then as you kick it to the

979
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,160
back of your palate, I think the
barley notes really take over.

980
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:07,760
So it reminds me of drinking
like a watered down Scotch with

981
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,560
like Splenda.
Like it's there.

982
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,280
There is like a really
artificial sweet note to it.

983
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,080
I don't know if you've ever made
a Godfather cocktail, which is

984
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,280
just at one point they were
making it with equal parts

985
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,200
Scotch and amaretto.
That's it.

986
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,200
Now people are like, listen,
Amaretto's way too sweet.

987
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,080
Don't use equal parts.
But it reminds me of that.

988
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,440
If you get down to like the very
bottom of your glass because

989
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,240
you're drinking it on the rocks,
there's a, there's just an

990
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:38,240
overwhelming sort of like sickly
sweet note that's kind of

991
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:41,080
covering up that like blended
Scotch note for me.

992
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:42,800
Not a huge fan of this one,
Brad.

993
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,000
I'm only going to give this a 5
out of 10 on the pallet.

994
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,440
OK.
I mean, so for me, I'm the

995
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,680
finish, the sugariness turns
into almost like a traditional

996
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,600
cane sugar.
The brown sugar kind of sticks

997
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,200
around.
And for me, the only bit of

998
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,520
complexity that I had for this
entire experience was on the

999
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,480
finish.
It almost had like a little bit

1000
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:10,160
of an ashy tobacco kind of
finish that I actually kind of

1001
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,640
enjoyed because it gave it a
little bit of something.

1002
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,680
It's still not great.
I'll give it a 6 1/2 out of 10.

1003
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:19,920
Yeah, I mean it, it is what it
is.

1004
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,000
Like, you know, if you're buying
Crown Royal, you know what

1005
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,640
you're getting.
However, this I don't think I've

1006
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:30,400
ever said this before.
Crown Royals flavored whiskeys

1007
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,000
are among the best flavored like
the Crown Royal Apple and the

1008
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,880
Crown Royal Peach are like S
tier flavored whiskey.

1009
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,240
Dude, people love that stuff.
Oh, it's and it's really good.

1010
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,680
And I feel like because this
already has that sort of

1011
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,040
artificial Splenda note in it
for me, I'm like, let's just

1012
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,400
drink the flavored stuff.
I think I actually enjoy that

1013
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,280
better than this.
There's a note on the back of

1014
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,760
the pallet into the finish that
is that like ashy cigarette kind

1015
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,880
of note that is just kind of
covered up in this, this like

1016
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,520
Splenda sweet and low, you know,
stevia type note for me.

1017
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,200
And it it hangs on and it it
makes it a little too sickly

1018
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,200
sweet for me.
Once again, I'm going to give it

1019
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:18,200
a 5.5 on the finish here.
And that takes my balance score,

1020
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,400
I guess to just a six.
Like I'm dealing with a 6A5 and

1021
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,560
A5 and 1/2.
So I think I got to come out to

1022
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,960
a six on the balance here, Brad.
I'll come out to A7.

1023
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,760
I like, I think that they they
hit everything they want.

1024
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,840
It falls off a little bit with
the the ashiness at the end,

1025
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,840
even though I kind of like that
it's a 7 out of 10 on balance

1026
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,520
value wise.
This is going to set you back.

1027
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,360
Right now it's on sale for like
2499.

1028
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,800
It is a $28.00 bottle of whiskey
in the state of Ohio.

1029
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:58,760
No, no, I mean I had to buy a
bottle of Canadian Club 12 year

1030
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,560
for us to drink at some point
this season.

1031
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,680
I can't remember what movie it's
paired up with and just looking

1032
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,600
at that bottle and how much
darker that whiskey is because

1033
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,840
it's 12 years old and I remember
how good that was for about the

1034
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,880
same price as this, about
$25.00, right?

1035
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:18,080
This is like $10 too expensive.
This is a $15 bottle of whiskey

1036
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:23,040
if ever I've seen one.
And at $25 I I'm shocked at how

1037
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,840
negative I am about this
whiskey.

1038
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:29,720
But like this is a this is a 4.5
out of 10 on value.

1039
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,520
Yeah, I, I, I I'm with you, Bob.
I don't think it's a great

1040
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,920
value.
It's a 5 out of 10 on value for

1041
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,800
me.
For $28.00 you should be getting

1042
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,640
a lot more than this.
If this was like 18 to 21

1043
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,960
dollars, it's it's a 7-8 out of
town value.

1044
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,960
Like it's a good cheap whiskey.
At $28.00 I'm expecting a little

1045
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,400
bit more honestly.
For $0.99 that's it.

1046
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,560
That's actually a decent price
for a pour of this.

1047
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,920
So if you want a pour of Crown,
don't go to the bar.

1048
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,080
Don't buy a whole bottle.
Go buy yourself a $0.99 little

1049
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,760
plastic bottle of Crown Royal
just to try it out, just to see

1050
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:15,720
what it's like neat.
You're coming out to what on

1051
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,520
this, Brad?
A 31.5.

1052
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,720
I'm at a 27.5.
So we're coming out to an

1053
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:28,640
average of a 29 1/2 or a 59 out
of 100 on this, falling well

1054
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:33,200
short of our 30 out of, I'm
sorry, 35 out of 50 average

1055
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,520
that's needed to give this a, a
recommendation.

1056
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,720
I'm not going to recommend.
And I remember kind of liking

1057
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,720
this back in Season 1.
We will call it signs of growth

1058
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,640
and not signs of snobbery, but
not this one's not doing it for

1059
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,120
me, Brad.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I

1060
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,520
walked away from this thinking
like, oh, that was like kind of

1061
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,720
a pleasant experience.
It's generically sweet and has a

1062
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,480
tiny bit of complexity.
It's it's OK, but it's crown,

1063
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:00,880
man.
I I'm kind of with you.

1064
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,120
If you want to get Crown, go buy
some Peach or apple.

1065
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,880
All right, man, on that note,
what do you say we get back into

1066
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,320
talking about American Beauty?
Let's get to it.

1067
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,840
All right, that was Crown Royal,
a Canadian whiskey to pair up

1068
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,760
with American beauty Brad.
Not our finest pairing, but you

1069
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,440
know what?
What do we know?

1070
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,720
For a movie called American
Beauty, we probably should have

1071
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,000
had an American whiskey.
But.

1072
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,560
I I think I was being a wise ass
in season 1 and I did that on

1073
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:41,200
purpose. 100% also me.
You know the no never, you know

1074
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:45,280
the old like that certainly was
a movie and it had a score.

1075
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,080
Crown Royal.
Certainly a whiskey that was

1076
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:54,640
made from grains.
And it comes in a purple velvet

1077
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,640
bag, Brad.
I'm I'm a big fan of the purple

1078
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:01,080
velvet bag Bob.
Nothing says classy like purple

1079
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,200
velvet.
All right guys.

1080
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,040
On that note Brad, it is time
for us to get into our game for

1081
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,040
the week which we call 2 facts
and a falsehood.

1082
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,880
Brad is going to try to stump
your ball.

1083
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,120
To.
Our right and what is wrong?

1084
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,040
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts
and a Falsehood is the part of

1085
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,400
the show where Brad presents me
with three items as facts about

1086
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,440
the making of this movie, one of
which is a complete lie.

1087
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,640
Brad, I have had a very up and
down season with two facts and a

1088
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,720
falsehood, including being let
down by some guests.

1089
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,360
So Noah, you're on the thinnest
of ice, man.

1090
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,600
Just you, you, you better be
helping me out here today.

1091
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,080
I am one and two.
I've been keeping score for

1092
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,960
myself so this is big because I
can get back to 500, but this

1093
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:50,720
one, this.
Is this is your chance baby?

1094
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,640
Yeah, this is not the guy I want
trying to help me get out of a

1095
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:58,120
hole here.
Brad, hit me with your two facts

1096
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,760
and a falsehood.
All right, guys, fact number one

1097
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,080
that the film's iconic red roses
were actually silk props for

1098
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:09,560
most of the shoot because the
fresh roses would often wilt too

1099
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,600
quickly under the lights and
ruin continuity.

1100
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,200
Fact #2 Director Sam Mendez's
designed there.

1101
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:22,760
Director Sam Mendez designed the
2 girls look to change over the

1102
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,040
course of the film, with Thora
Birch gradually using less

1103
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:30,720
makeup and MENA Suvari gradually
using more to emphasize the view

1104
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:33,360
of their shifting perceptions of
themselves.

1105
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,600
Fact #3 When Lester throws the
asparagus, he was supposed to

1106
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,920
throw it at the floor.
The redactions of Annette Bening

1107
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,040
and Thora Birch are genuine.
Mendez kept the take because the

1108
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,640
startled expressions perfectly
captured the tension of the

1109
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:54,960
scene.
The only thing that makes #3

1110
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,320
sound kind of fishy to me and I
didn't notice it until this time

1111
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,080
around because I got a a
pristine HD transfer on my

1112
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,080
Amazon prime rental, is that
when he throws that asparagus at

1113
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,240
the wall the the lemon slice
sticks to the wall.

1114
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:12,960
And I'm like that was on
purpose.

1115
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,720
So they they paid some prop
master to put a fake like gummy

1116
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:21,160
lemon on the wall.
I hey, listen, if that was

1117
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,400
Providence sticking that lemon
to the wall, then I'm wrong.

1118
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,920
But that just seems a little too
pat and on the.

1119
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,280
Nose well, and and I I got to be
honest, I've I've I've not

1120
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,400
listened to every episode but
the the the Rose one.

1121
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,600
If Brad made that up, that is
incredibly creative.

1122
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,080
Is he capable of coming up with
something that creative?

1123
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,040
That is for you to.
Determine I was just going to

1124
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:48,920
tell you not to stroke his ego
as well.

1125
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,240
And then you give him the
backhand of like, is he even

1126
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,840
capable of that?
It's like, oh, you corrected

1127
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:54,760
yourself.
I don't need to.

1128
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,160
We'll find out in a minute if
that was a compliment or an

1129
01:04:58,160 --> 01:04:59,600
insult.
I'm not sure.

1130
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:05,840
But I that I mean the the Rose
thing, it would make sense to me

1131
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,120
that they wouldn't use real
roses.

1132
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,120
But I don't know about the
lights that looks that was shot

1133
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,840
outdoors.
Like I don't think the lights

1134
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:14,160
would be the problem, would
they?

1135
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:17,400
I don't know.
Yeah, there's definitely some

1136
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,720
roses in like indoor vases and
stuff as well.

1137
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,800
And you know this, this scene
where the roses are falling from

1138
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,640
the ceiling, those could
definitely be props.

1139
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,080
At one point, I mean CGI roses
too.

1140
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:31,480
That's what that's what I was
going to say.

1141
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,920
They looked like CGIIII think
I'm with you.

1142
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,760
I think I want to go with the
the asparagus.

1143
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,880
Also, someone could have gotten
hurt, like if that was really

1144
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,600
improvised.
Like, you know, you don't know

1145
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,000
where those shards are going to
go.

1146
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,840
That's pretty dangerous stuff.
Although this is a movie in

1147
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,280
which she tries to have sex with
a 16 year old, so sure.

1148
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,080
But that's in the movies.
Living on the.

1149
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:56,480
Edge.
That's not you know.

1150
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,880
So wait, you sound really
skeptical about the roses, but

1151
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,760
you're not choosing that as a
falsehood.

1152
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,440
No, I think it, I think it's
real.

1153
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,960
I think that I think that is
real one because I think that's

1154
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,240
I don't.
And as you know, sincerely, no

1155
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:18,320
offense, Brad, but that's too
that is too wacky.

1156
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:24,000
If there is ever ever a phrase
to guarantee that the person is

1157
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,920
meaning offense.
I mean, does Brad even know

1158
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,080
about?
Does Brad know about Silk Bob

1159
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,280
Like I would who?
I wouldn't even think of silk.

1160
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,560
Where would that come from?
I, I'm gonna be honest with you,

1161
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:39,080
man, I've insulted Brad a lot
over the course of this podcast

1162
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,400
and I, I'm offended on his
behalf, right?

1163
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,320
That's how insulting you're
being to my Co host right now.

1164
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,520
I here's what I'm going to do
for you, Brad.

1165
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,840
I'm going to choose #3 as the
falsehood with a slight hope

1166
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,520
that it is number 1, so that you
can vindicate yourself against

1167
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:00,720
these attacks, Brad.
Oh, Bob, I appreciate you doing

1168
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:09,360
that because Noah number #1 was
the falsehood.

1169
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:14,800
Well, well done, Sir.
I stand deeply and profoundly

1170
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,040
corrected.
It is no problem man.

1171
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:19,120
I this has.
Been How do you even know about

1172
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,040
silk?
I mean, I know he knows about

1173
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:22,320
the.
Existence of silk.

1174
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,720
It's a completely new textile to
him.

1175
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:33,440
It's so soft guys.
I have not had this much fun

1176
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,560
with a 2 Facts and a falsehood
since Zach a few weeks ago told

1177
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,600
us that he was just casually
reading Stephen Foster's

1178
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,320
songbook.
All right, well, I think the key

1179
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,240
here to a fun 2 facts and a
falsehood is to insult Brad.

1180
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,680
But the key to a loss for me is
bringing guests on because I

1181
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:57,920
have been steered wildly wrong.
OK, I am taking Els left and

1182
01:07:57,920 --> 01:07:59,680
right on this movie.
Guys.

1183
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,080
I do want to get back into
talking about this movie a

1184
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,640
little bit because you know,
Noah has already said not a huge

1185
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:07,880
fan.
Brad and I I think both still

1186
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:13,720
like this movie and I want to
talk a little bit about its

1187
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,040
place now.
We touched on it a bit.

1188
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,920
It's the victim of a lot of
Twitter poo pooping.

1189
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:26,520
Noah.
I'm wondering, like, is it

1190
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:32,359
possible to watch this movie
free from the baggage of all of

1191
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:34,359
it's bad?
I mean, free from the baggage of

1192
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:37,240
Kevin Spacey, free from the
baggage of knowing that people

1193
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,800
hate it now, and I think free
from a lot of the things we

1194
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:47,640
impose on it as 2025 viewers.
I think there's the answer to me

1195
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,319
is no.
And there's two things that

1196
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:54,520
could have happened that would
have allowed us to and neither

1197
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,439
one of them happened. 1 is that
Kevin Spacey could have simply

1198
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:01,120
gone away.
And I think if Kevin Spacey went

1199
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,479
away, like didn't make those
weird ass videos every Christmas

1200
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:07,640
and didn't pop up every now and
then talking about what an

1201
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,960
injustice is, is being, you
know, thrown out of Hollywood is

1202
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,000
I'm not saying we would forgive
him, but I think we would

1203
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,000
inherently soften on his
performances a little bit.

1204
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,760
Just not having to think about
and see him talking about this

1205
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:23,760
stuff all the time.
That didn't happen.

1206
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:28,359
The other thing that didn't
happen is Sam Mendes didn't only

1207
01:09:28,359 --> 01:09:32,399
make good movies because he has
made some bad movies.

1208
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,840
And I think if if he went on to
just make like good to great

1209
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,479
movies, like if you had a better
track record over the last 25

1210
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:45,080
years, I think we might be more
inclined to look back at this

1211
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,479
and say, OK, you know what, I'm
going to look on the bright

1212
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:48,600
side.
There's more to like.

1213
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,880
And I don't mean you guys, I
know you guys still like this

1214
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,880
movie, but just in general, the
film Twitter, the film world I

1215
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:59,480
think would would be softer on
this movie because I don't think

1216
01:09:59,480 --> 01:10:02,960
people are really, they're not
really into Sam Mendes.

1217
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,920
There's not a lot of Mendez
heads out there.

1218
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,360
I mean, I think we all agree
he's made some good movies.

1219
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,640
He's also made some pretty bad
movies.

1220
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:13,840
And I think there'd be a bit of
a critical reappraisal if he

1221
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:17,480
were more revered or respected
as a film maker today.

1222
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:19,120
And he really just kind of
isn't.

1223
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,040
And I we've already kind of
talked about the third thing, if

1224
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,280
this doesn't win Academy Award
for Best Picture, like you

1225
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:30,760
could, you could win some acting
awards, cinematography, all

1226
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:32,520
that.
But if it doesn't win Best

1227
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,680
picture, I think people come
back to this and go like, Oh

1228
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,440
yeah, this is pretty solid in
those niche areas.

1229
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:43,080
It it's a perfect storm to have
its reputation overturned over

1230
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,160
these years because it won Best
Picture and people don't like

1231
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:48,520
it.
It beat out all these other

1232
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:53,600
incredible movies that we do
love from that era, and the star

1233
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,880
of it is a known predator.
In a movie, like in a character

1234
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:02,200
where he is a predator like that
is really hard to let go of all

1235
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:04,920
that stuff. 100%.
You don't.

1236
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,040
You don't want Stacey to put a
time to type Noah.

1237
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,560
Right.
I could not have asked you to to

1238
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:14,120
team me up better for a
conversation on Sam Mendes.

1239
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,360
When Brad, we we kind of
interrogated all this in our

1240
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,440
Skyfall episode.
But people do not like Sam

1241
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:21,000
Mendes.
And when I say people, I mean

1242
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,000
film Twitter because they have
nothing better to do than

1243
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,920
complain.
But it it always does.

1244
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:31,160
It makes me wonder sometimes
about like, I don't think we've

1245
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:36,080
fully gotten over auteur theory
because we see a film maker like

1246
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,840
Sam Mendes, who admittedly has
made some bad movies that did

1247
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,080
not work.
And because Sam Mendes doesn't

1248
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:46,560
seem to have like a singular
theme or vision that he tries to

1249
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:52,000
tackle, he's just a guy who is
technically proficient and makes

1250
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:56,120
beautiful looking movies that
sometimes work and sometimes

1251
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:58,880
don't.
I think he gets seen as a hack.

1252
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,000
And and I wouldn't be like very
clear here.

1253
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:05,600
I don't think he's a hack.
I think he makes good movies.

1254
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,520
But it it seems like everyone is
held to the standard of like, if

1255
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:14,680
you're not Scorsese constantly
making movies about religion and

1256
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,880
the rot at, you know, the
corrupt heart of America and you

1257
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,880
can't be that clear in every
movie that you make, then you're

1258
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:26,040
not seen as a real filmmaker.
And I do think that that Mendez

1259
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:27,520
deserves a little bit more
credit.

1260
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,600
This is his first movie.
Like, this is his debut movie.

1261
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,320
He wins best director and best
picture.

1262
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,840
And no matter what you think of
whether those were deserved,

1263
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:41,560
like I, I do think he should be
taken a little more seriously as

1264
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:46,040
a force in Hollywood, you know,
even if he squandered that in in

1265
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:50,280
the years after it.
I mean, the way you were talking

1266
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:54,560
about him reminds me of how we
talk about Rob Reiner, that like

1267
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:59,160
he, he doesn't have this direct,
this vision of, you know, who he

1268
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,520
wants to be as a director.
He just takes on a lot of

1269
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:05,240
different genres and different
films and is a really

1270
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:10,600
proficient, adept director.
And he he works well with actors

1271
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,640
and he's good behind the camera.
And like, that's all we expect

1272
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,040
from him.
I think that the Academy Award

1273
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:24,440
and all this set us up to think
of Sam as a possible next right?

1274
01:13:24,440 --> 01:13:27,840
Like it's, it's the LeBron
syndrome for the last 15 years

1275
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:33,800
of like, well, Zion Williamson
is the next LeBron and Ben, Ben

1276
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:38,280
Simmons is the next LeBron.
And I like I've heard of 5-6

1277
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,320
next Lebrons and none of them
have become the next LeBron.

1278
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,200
I I feel like you kind of have a
little bit of that here with Sam

1279
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,920
Mendes where it's like, yeah, is
he Ben Simmons bad?

1280
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:51,040
No, but is he LeBron good?
Like, no, he's not that good.

1281
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,000
Also no.
Yeah, well, and it's like if one

1282
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,160
of those guys won an MVP and an
NBA championship in their rookie

1283
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:02,160
year, you know, like, yeah,
those expectations would just be

1284
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,880
totally unreasonable.
And and that's, that's

1285
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:08,000
definitely what we have here.
There was almost a sense of

1286
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,560
like, OK, you did this.
Now you have to show that it was

1287
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,800
merited.
Like, how can how does that

1288
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,320
work?
You can't show that it was

1289
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:20,160
merited with other films, like
you won for that film at that

1290
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,040
time.
So I I think it's totally unfair

1291
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,600
and totally unreasonable.
But we do have to.

1292
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,360
And you've mentioned it, but I
feel like it bears repeating.

1293
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:33,640
He's made some bad movies like
that is part of the reason he is

1294
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:37,040
disliked, because he has made
some bad movies and he's

1295
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,680
squandered some opportunities.
He made Skyfall, which was

1296
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,440
phenomenal, and then he made
Spectre, which was not.

1297
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:45,840
And it's, and I think people,
yeah, people don't like him.

1298
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,600
I think they're all so confused.
I think people don't know where

1299
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,920
to put him.
And when film Twitter gets

1300
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,680
confused about something, they
normally get angry about it.

1301
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,120
They don't.
They don't know how to deal with

1302
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,680
their confusion.
This is true.

1303
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,800
I mean, if you take you take his
top three movies, though, I

1304
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,920
think, yes, the batting average
argument is not in his favor,

1305
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,280
right?
But if you take his top three

1306
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:13,600
movies, whatever #3 might be to
you like, you know, Skyfall 1917

1307
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,640
and American Beauty or Road to
Perdition.

1308
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,960
And if I told you, like you
could have a career directing

1309
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:24,080
movies where your three best
movies are Skyfall 1917 and

1310
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:26,840
American Beauty, you'd be like,
sign me up for that all day.

1311
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,320
Those are those are.
We've done all three of those

1312
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,840
movies on the podcast.
I mean, let's be real, if you

1313
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:36,600
have three like produced by a
major production studio movies,

1314
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,400
you're set for life.
So I'll I'll take any 3 movies

1315
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,680
like.
Can you imagine?

1316
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,680
Do you?
Do you remember that for 19/17

1317
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,400
that was the Parasite year?
Like Can you imagine if somehow

1318
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,920
that he had beaten Parasite that
year too?

1319
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:54,120
Like how much everybody would
hate him even more than they do

1320
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,160
now?
And it almost happened.

1321
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:59,680
Like he was favored to win Best
director and 1917 was favored to

1322
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,560
win best picture, like pretty
close to the end.

1323
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:06,040
So he should be very happy that
he did not win those Oscars.

1324
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,680
Another banger year 2019 as
well.

1325
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,960
Incredible marriage story.
I mean, just a just a freaking

1326
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,640
great the.
Correlation that I'm seeing is

1327
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,000
Sam Mendes.
Clearly he.

1328
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:21,360
Is what makes those years.
If he makes a movie, it's going

1329
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:24,840
to be a great year.
Guys, I think this is a perfect

1330
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,320
time to get into our final
segment of the day, which we

1331
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:30,520
call let's make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1332
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,880
episodes of Things, listening to
the film and Whiskey Show.

1333
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:36,920
Let's pair another film with
this one, even if it's struggle.

1334
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:38,320
It's the final segment of the
day.

1335
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,840
Now let's make it a double.
Let's Make It a Double is the

1336
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,960
part of the show where we pick a
movie to pair up with this one

1337
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:45,720
to make the perfect double
feature.

1338
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,360
Guys, I'm going to go ahead and
get mine out of the way first.

1339
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,520
We we talked about Sam Mendez a
lot.

1340
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:52,560
And Brad, you made a comparison
to Rob Reiner.

1341
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:58,000
I actually think I see a little
bit more vitriol directed

1342
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,640
towards Sam Mendes.
And I think Noah, you're right.

1343
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:05,440
It's it's part of the confusion.
But the closest corollary to to

1344
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:10,640
him that I can think of is the
filmmaker Jason Reitman, who is

1345
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:15,640
a Neppo baby, to say the least,
and really announced himself on

1346
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,600
the scene in independent cinema
with this movie.

1347
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,760
Thank You for Smoking.
And then follows that up with

1348
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:23,480
Juno, gets nominated for best
picture for Juno, maybe best

1349
01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:26,000
director as well.
Then he does up in the air

1350
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:29,080
another best picture nominee.
He gets nominated for best

1351
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:31,680
director.
He does a young adult, a movie

1352
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:35,120
that I really like, and then
immediately is like, let's make

1353
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,040
bad Movies Now.
And that's all he does forever.

1354
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,520
And now he's making Ghostbusters
sequels.

1355
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:46,520
And so like, he made a movie in
I think 2013 that is probably

1356
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,240
his most reviled movie and a
movie that I liked significantly

1357
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:52,560
more than most people.
And it was called Men, Women and

1358
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:55,440
Children.
And that was a movie very much

1359
01:17:55,440 --> 01:17:58,000
like American Beauty.
It was a movie about these Criss

1360
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,800
crossing lives in American
suburbia and kids who are

1361
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:07,000
addicted to pornography and, you
know, grown-ups who are fighting

1362
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,640
and maybe divorcing each other.
And it's all phrased with this

1363
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:14,080
omniscient narrator who I think
is Emma Thompson is narrating

1364
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:15,320
that movie.
And it's there.

1365
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,240
She's like quoting Carl Sagan
talking about the the tiny blue

1366
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:23,120
dot and how we all inhabit this.
Or it's it's very similar to

1367
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:27,040
American Beauty in it's kind of
pomp and circumstance and what

1368
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:31,480
it's trying to do on a cosmic
level and watch that movie,

1369
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,720
which I don't hate, and then
tell me that American Beauty is

1370
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:37,120
bad.
And I think that every argument

1371
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:41,200
you have against this movie and
Sam Mendes, it's like, no, no,

1372
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:44,120
there's this movie that you can
put all of that on to.

1373
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:49,120
So for my scapegoat slash double
feature, I'm going with this.

1374
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:54,080
And men, women and children.
Oh man, just to be clear, I

1375
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:55,680
don't despise this film.
I.

1376
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:01,240
Didn't think it was that bad.
What a glowing recommendation.

1377
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:06,080
I'm going to pair this with the
movie I absolutely love, and

1378
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:11,720
it's a movie that I think has
somewhat similar of a premise,

1379
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:16,560
but it just moves in so much
more hopeful of the direction.

1380
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:20,640
And I'm a very hopeful person.
I like when a person is faced

1381
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,280
with their own death, them
choosing the greater good

1382
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:27,360
choosing.
A beautiful life.

1383
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,080
You have picked this movie like
7 Times Now.

1384
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:31,760
Breath.
Because more people need to see

1385
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,880
this freaking movie.
Bob Akiru is one of the greatest

1386
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,000
films ever made and everybody
needs to watch it.

1387
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:46,560
And I feel like it has such a
more impactful look on how

1388
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:51,880
humans actually thrive, that
American Beauty and I, I like

1389
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,200
American Beauty.
I think, Bob, what you said

1390
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:58,560
about everybody playing a
character until the masks are

1391
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:00,920
shattered at the end of the film
and they're all like, well,

1392
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:02,520
crap, Like what are we going to
do now?

1393
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,240
I, I think there's something
very important in that

1394
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:09,360
messaging.
I just like Akiru way more.

1395
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,360
And what it is trying to tell
you about the human experience.

1396
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:19,320
There you go.
I love Akiru a lot and I love

1397
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:22,960
the English language remake that
came out a couple years ago.

1398
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:25,120
Live in like.
I thought that was almost as

1399
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:26,680
good, which is an.
Incredible.

1400
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,160
That's because Bill Nighy is a
freaking treasure.

1401
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:32,120
I.
Totally.

1402
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:34,120
So good.
I love everything he does and

1403
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:35,720
that is his best performance to
me.

1404
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:37,840
I, I think he's really amazing
in that movie.

1405
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:43,120
I, I am go.
I so I'm just thinking suburbs

1406
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,440
movies, you know, and there've
been a lot.

1407
01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:50,560
I, I, I love the idea that you
had of pairing it with like a, a

1408
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:52,680
Rock Hudson movie.
I think that would be really,

1409
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,120
really cool.
But I am going to go with A

1410
01:20:56,120 --> 01:21:00,800
Nightmare on Elm Street.
I think this is another movie

1411
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:06,280
about teenagers in peril in the
suburbs in a very different way.

1412
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:09,960
And I think that movie really
kicked off like a whole modern

1413
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,800
era of suburbs movies like it
was before the John Hughes

1414
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:17,800
movies started happening.
And I think I honestly think

1415
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:20,120
like the themes of Nightmare on
Elm Street are present in a lot

1416
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:21,840
of these movies.
You know, a lot of the John

1417
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:24,640
Hughes movies, The Burbs is a
movie that I love that I think

1418
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:26,000
goes a lot to Nightmare on Elm
Street.

1419
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:27,800
I wouldn't make an interesting
pairing with this.

1420
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:30,720
But just like you don't like
what the hell is happening on

1421
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:34,520
this street, like that's a movie
that I, I, that's a, that's a

1422
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,760
genre that I like.
And I think This American Beauty

1423
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,440
falls into that genre too.
And I actually think there are

1424
01:21:40,440 --> 01:21:43,240
little hints of horror
throughout the film.

1425
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,840
So I think I think those might
be brought out a little more if

1426
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:49,440
you paired it with a true horror
movie like Nightmare on Elm

1427
01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:53,520
Street.
It's a movie about a a teenage

1428
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,120
girl who gets caught in a creepy
old man's dreams.

1429
01:21:56,120 --> 01:21:57,720
Like it's the same movie, you
know?

1430
01:21:58,000 --> 01:21:59,840
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.

1431
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,760
I was about to say, are you
calling Kevin Spacey Freddy

1432
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:05,600
Krueger?
It's it's a they're neck and

1433
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:11,120
neck biggest villains.
Oh, man.

1434
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,200
All right, so Brad, I guess I I
didn't have a chance to pair

1435
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,320
this movie up with either ET or
Elizabethtown today, so I had to

1436
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,640
go with men, women and children.
I do think if you want to go the

1437
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,720
Sam Mendes route, he makes a
movie in 2008 called

1438
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:29,280
Revolutionary Rd. which is based
on, no exaggeration, my favorite

1439
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:32,760
book I've ever read.
It is the pros in that book is

1440
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:39,440
just it is so biting and so
cynical and Mendez does not

1441
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:43,320
catch lightning in a bottle a
second time with that movie.

1442
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,640
And I think part of the reason
why is it just doesn't have the

1443
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:50,200
edge of this movie.
And and I'm I'm kind of tipping

1444
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,800
into final scores here, Brad.
I've come down a bit on this

1445
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:54,840
movie.
Like I don't think it's a

1446
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,360
perfect movie.
I do think some things have

1447
01:22:57,360 --> 01:22:59,600
gotten lost in the last 25
years.

1448
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:04,000
And, and part of that is like, I
was wondering at some point how

1449
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:09,200
creepy is Ricky in 2025 versus
1999 when he was only medium

1450
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:11,800
creepy.
And now he's like exponentially

1451
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,360
creepier.
And part of the reason for that

1452
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:18,000
is like he's filming people.
And it's a very obvious metaphor

1453
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:23,400
of like the camera being the
only impartial, objective

1454
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:26,440
observer of what's going on in
the world, where everybody else

1455
01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:28,800
is biased and and viewing it
through the lens of their own

1456
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,640
bullshit.
But now if you show somebody

1457
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:39,200
filming somebody, when we take
videos in 2025, we take videos

1458
01:23:39,480 --> 01:23:45,080
with the intention of that
becoming for public consumption.

1459
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,960
Whereas in this movie, like he's
only documenting it for himself

1460
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:51,880
to show the beauty in the world
to himself.

1461
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:55,560
And I, I think that like
overcoming that thing in his

1462
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:59,840
character where like, people
don't understand I filmed

1463
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,160
something for myself anymore.
It's like I filmed this to put

1464
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:06,080
it on the Internet and he's
filming girls getting naked and

1465
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,400
dads pumping iron naked and
everything else.

1466
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:11,160
Like, so I think that there's
just some things.

1467
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:15,040
And that led to the question I
asked Noah before, like, can you

1468
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,680
even view this movie apart from
all of its baggage today?

1469
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,720
I don't think you can.
And I don't think the movie is

1470
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:22,960
bulletproof enough to overcome
all those things.

1471
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,240
I still think it's a really good
movie, but I'm going to come

1472
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:29,800
down to an 8 1/2 on this movie.
Brad from where I was in Season

1473
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,360
1.
Yeah, I I did find myself

1474
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:36,760
throughout this viewing
wondering like, what does a

1475
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:42,000
world where everybody can take
videos all the time due to the

1476
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,120
character of Ricky, because he's
not interested.

1477
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:47,440
I don't like, honestly, he's not
weird anymore.

1478
01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:51,040
Because if you make this movie
set in 2025, he's just another

1479
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,760
human being, but there's nothing
unique about him taking a camera

1480
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,920
to school.
So I I think that alone makes

1481
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,800
his character very fascinating
in 2025.

1482
01:25:02,440 --> 01:25:06,600
I'm, I'm with you, Bob.
I think this is a really

1483
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:10,640
beautiful movie.
It has a lot of great

1484
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:15,840
cinematography that we didn't
talk about, but the the camera

1485
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:18,680
work I think is really good.
I like the acting.

1486
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:22,160
I like the ultimate message of
the movie.

1487
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:24,640
I think it's really well done
overall.

1488
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:30,360
I'm at an 8 1/2 as well.
You know, I wonder if in 2025,

1489
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:33,400
Ricky's thing would be that he
like doesn't have a camera.

1490
01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:36,200
Like if he doesn't have a people
would be like, Oh my God,

1491
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:37,720
believe that guy doesn't have a
phone.

1492
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:39,160
He's.
He just walks around with a

1493
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:40,840
journal of writing down what we
say.

1494
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:43,960
What a weirdo.
I just pictured him walking

1495
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:48,480
around with like an old like
1860s Civil War era camera where

1496
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:51,360
he has to like take the cap off.
He's like, everybody holds

1497
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:52,240
still.
I I need to?

1498
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:54,360
Capture hold still for 5
minutes.

1499
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,800
He gets under like a curtain to
look through the viewfinder.

1500
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:01,960
It is interesting though,
because I think you could make

1501
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,880
it wouldn't be as, as
interesting visually, but like

1502
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:08,360
you could make that argument
that he actually does see things

1503
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,560
more clearly because he's not
using a phone because he's not

1504
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,720
posting stuff on Instagram.
So that would be an interesting

1505
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,720
way to do it if they were doing
it in 2020 for the inevitable

1506
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:21,120
American Beauty remake that we
all know is coming because this

1507
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:25,520
movie is so beloved.
I, I'm going to put this at a 5

1508
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,400
out of 10.
I, I don't think it's terrible.

1509
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,440
You thought it would be higher?
No, I thought, I thought I'd

1510
01:26:32,440 --> 01:26:36,360
been underselling.
I, I, I don't think it's

1511
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:38,040
terrible.
I just don't think it's very

1512
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:39,000
good.
I think it has a lot of

1513
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:42,840
problems.
I I actually think, and I never

1514
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:46,560
say this about movies because I
don't watch TV, but I think it

1515
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:51,720
would be better as ATV series
like Alan Ball made Six Feet

1516
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,880
under right after this.
This was his next project.

1517
01:26:55,320 --> 01:27:00,280
And this a lot of the problems I
have with this is, is that there

1518
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:02,360
is too much into it, too much in
it.

1519
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:06,200
It's too condensed.
It has to rely on some, you

1520
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:10,680
know, sitcomy conventions and
some, you know, some moments

1521
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:13,200
from Kevin Spacey that are, are
meant to sort of bring the

1522
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:15,800
audience along instead of
delving deeper into his

1523
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,400
character.
And I think if you had eight

1524
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:22,200
episodes to tell this story, I
think it would be better.

1525
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:24,320
And I think I, we could
understand these characters

1526
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:26,920
more.
And it wouldn't feel to me like

1527
01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:30,960
it's trying to juggle tones that
it really can't quite, you know,

1528
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,120
keep all the balls in the air.
I think they would be able to

1529
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:37,640
expand both the comedy and
expand the drama.

1530
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,880
And I, I think I think it would
work better.

1531
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:43,640
So that that would be my tip.
If I could go back 25 years, I'd

1532
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,280
say, guys, we're right on the
cusp of the golden age of

1533
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:51,000
prestige TV.
So just wait a year and then and

1534
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,520
then give Alan Ball a big a big
check, HBO.

1535
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:56,680
It's like, hey guys, here's my
pitch.

1536
01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:00,120
You could make this movie as is
and win Best Picture and Best

1537
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,480
Director and Best Actor or.
Or you.

1538
01:28:03,480 --> 01:28:04,920
Could.
Or you could wait five years.

1539
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,680
Make an HBO show and have nobody
notice because they're all

1540
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:11,200
gushing about The Sopranos.
Exactly.

1541
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,920
You drive a hard bargain, Sir.
All right, so that does it for

1542
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,920
us today.
We're coming out to an 8.5 on

1543
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,440
average for me and Brad.
And Noah's score doesn't count

1544
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:24,480
because he's the guest.
So thanks so much for joining us

1545
01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:27,600
today, Noah.
Now you did mention that you

1546
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,840
were no longer doing film
criticism as of right now, so

1547
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,760
fill us in a little bit on what
you are working on and where we

1548
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,320
can find you.
Oh sure, So I have pivoted.

1549
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:40,360
I'm making music now.
I, I, it's something I did in my

1550
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:42,520
20s.
I put out an album in my 20s and

1551
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:45,320
then I kind of moved away from
it and now I've moved back to

1552
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:47,960
it.
So I've put out two albums this

1553
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,040
year and I have a third that'll
be out maybe by the time this

1554
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:54,040
this comes up.
It's singer-songwriter stuff.

1555
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:58,240
It's very pleasant.
I think the songs are not bad

1556
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:02,920
and you can find me on Band Camp
and Spotify and other places

1557
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,760
that I don't I don't frequent
but I'm told the music is on

1558
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:10,320
there as well.
Man, just a a real whore for

1559
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:13,880
self promotion aren't you?
I think the songs are not bad

1560
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:16,280
quote UN quote.
Noah can tell.

1561
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:19,880
I think that.
That you know what I honestly,

1562
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:23,760
I, I will say this, we hung out
like a year ago, you came to

1563
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,400
visit Cleveland for a while and
we went and had a couple drinks

1564
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:28,640
and you were like, I'm going to
go to an open mic.

1565
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,240
And I was like, you know what,
bud?

1566
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:31,720
You do what you need to do,
right?

1567
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:34,480
I was like, I, I don't know if
I'm going to come listen to you

1568
01:29:34,480 --> 01:29:36,520
at an open mic.
And then you started posting

1569
01:29:36,520 --> 01:29:38,880
clips of you and your songs that
you've written.

1570
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,040
First of all, you have a
beautiful voice.

1571
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:44,280
Like you, like, are a
legitimately good singer and

1572
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:46,920
songwriter.
And I find that your music is

1573
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:52,280
like unironically, unabashedly
very, very good and worth

1574
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,360
checking out.
So if he won't, if he'll be too

1575
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:56,240
humble to say it, I'll say it
for him.

1576
01:29:56,440 --> 01:30:00,360
Check out Noah's music guys.
Well, I set you up perfectly.

1577
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:03,800
My plan came to fruition here.
Thank you so very much.

1578
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:06,720
That really does mean a lot.
And I know you mean it because

1579
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:10,160
we were talking off off air and
you said you want to come to an

1580
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:15,080
open mic soon and hear me play.
So we'll do that and maybe we'll

1581
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:16,640
live stream it for your
audience.

1582
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:19,800
Based on how 2 Facts and a
falsehood of blend.

1583
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:24,160
I have so many thoughts on your
musical capabilities, but I'm

1584
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:26,240
just, you know, I'm going to
keep them to myself here.

1585
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:32,320
Do you even know what a melody?
Is just know that if he writes a

1586
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:35,440
song about Silk now, Brad, that
it was inspired by you.

1587
01:30:35,480 --> 01:30:39,440
That's that's all we know.
All right, guys, that does it

1588
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:41,280
for us here on Film and Whiskey
today.

1589
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:44,680
We'll be back next week talking
about a movie that we probably

1590
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:50,000
should have a moderator for.
It's 1977's Star Wars Episode 4,

1591
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,400
A New Hope.
Brad's one of Brad's favorite

1592
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:55,480
movies of all time.
So join us as we debate that one

1593
01:30:55,480 --> 01:30:58,560
again next week.
But until then, I'm Bob Book.

1594
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:01,280
I'm Brad Gee.
And we'll see you next time.