12 Angry Men (1957) / Very Old Barton 80 Proof Bourbon

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In 1957, director Sidney Lumet
and star Henry Fonda gave the

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world a jury room drama that has
never been topped and still asks

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the pertinent question, Is it
possible?

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In 2023, we returned to a fan
favorite brand at their lowest

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proof point.
The film is 12 Angry Men.

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The whiskey is very old.
Barton, 80.

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Proof.
We'll review them both.

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This is the Film and Whiskey
podcast.

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Music.
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad Gee.
And this week we are watching

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for the second time Brad 12
Angry Men director Sidney

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Lumet's debut feature from 1957.
I think it's actually my third

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time watching the film, Bob.
Oh, is it?

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First time was yeah, first time
was for season 1 and I'm like

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90% sure I've watched it at some
point in the intervening years.

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Oh, so you hadn't seen it prior
to us watching it the first

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time?
I don't believe so.

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Wow, that's shocking.
Yeah.

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I thought this was one of those
movies that like, if you didn't

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see it outside of school, then
you saw it inside of school, you

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know what I mean?
It just feels like everyone has

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seen it at some point.
As they should, as.

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They absolutely should.
Yeah.

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Part of the reason that I said
that this is Sydney Lumet's

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debut feature is what, A debut
feature, man.

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Oh, dude, yeah.
When you talk about like best

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first films for a director, this
has got to be up here.

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Oh my God.
I know a lot of people would put

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Reservoir Dogs up there.
We were a little bit cooler on

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it.
I I don't know of many better

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first film introductions than 12
Angry Men.

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I mean, it's this and Tommy
Wiseau's The Room.

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Right, obviously.
Yeah, I thought, yeah, for sure.

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Well, hey, as we get into
talking about 12 Angry Men, we

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do want to remind everybody out
there that you can subscribe to

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us on Patreon where you get a
ton of bonus perks.

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We do special episodes just for
our Patreon members.

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We have uncut, longer episodes
for our patrons as well.

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You can find
allofthisextracontent@patreon.com/film.

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Whiskey, Brad.
I don't know that we need to

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beat around the Bush too much
here.

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We've talked about this movie
once.

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We're revisiting it. 10 out of
10 Great episode I.

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Was going to say if anything
it's gone even higher in my

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estimation on 2nd watch.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

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We we don't give 10 out of 10
super often, but probably more

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often than some film critics
might hand them out.

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And at this point, I feel like I
need to have like a inner

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ranking system of like once you
hit 10 out of 10, I give you

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like a gold medal 10 or a silver
middle 10 or, or a bronze medal

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10.
I I don't know, we need to mix

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it up, I think.
You know, we were talking one

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time with a friend of show,
Patrick Williams, and he told us

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that he doesn't give a 10 out of
10 or A5 out of five on

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Letterboxed on 1st viewing.
And I've kind of started to

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drift that way a little bit in
the last couple years.

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Like, there's been a few movies
that just absolutely gob smacked

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me.
And I'll give him a 10 and then

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go back five years later and be
like, oh, OK, I was kind of a

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prisoner of the moment, you
know?

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And I feel like now I try to air
on the side of, like, this might

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be a 10.
And I'm going to rank it as like

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a nine until I can revisit it
and determine for sure if it's a

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10.
And this is one of those movies

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that every time I watch it, I
don't even go into it thinking

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like, oh, I wonder if this is
going to hold up.

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It's like you put it on and you
are so immediately engrossed in

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the movie that at multiple
points I was like, oh, this is a

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10 out of 10.
Like there's just, there's

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nothing that that changes it for
me.

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Even just the opening shot is
outside the courtroom, it slowly

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pans up and ends on like a
saying about justice at the top

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of this, you know, courthouse.
And then the camera cuts, you're

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inside the courthouse looking up
at the top at another quote

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about justice and it slowly pans
down as you see people entering

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the courthouse.
Then it pan like turns to the

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side and follows like 4
different people slowly into the

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courtroom and I'm like the like
the cinematography in this is.

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Incredible.
You know what?

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Like, let's, let's start there.
Actually, no, let's not start

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there.
Let's start with our favorite

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segment, Brad explains.
Brad's going to give us the

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movie plots with only 60 seconds
taken on the clock, so let's go

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ahead and do your take with this
little segment that we call,

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Brad explains.
Brad explains is America's

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favorite segment this is where
Brad breaks down the plot of the

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movie that he has just seen
often for the first time.

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This is Brad's apparently third
time watching 12 Angry Men.

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Brad, I don't really know that
there's.

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I feel like you should change
what you say from often for the

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first time to often for the.
Second time for the second time.

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Just for this season.
I was going to say, I don't know

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if it's even possible to fill
out a full 60 seconds explaining

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the plot of this movie because
like a short one sentence

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synopsis pretty much covers
exactly what this movie's about.

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But we give you a minute, so if
you want to pat it out with just

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personal opinions on things, you
feel free, man.

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You have one minute on the clock
to completely spoil this movie

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and everything that happens
inside of it and go.

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Do do you want me to, like, tell
you about what I had for dinner

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last night?
Do you have a personal opinion

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about it?
It was delicious.

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There you go, I made AI made a
lemon chicken orzo with with

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bacon and oh man, it was
incredible.

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You guys do lemon chicken orzo
quite often, don't you?

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I.
Would say it's like at least

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once a month.
OK, nice type of meal.

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All right.
How many?

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How much time do I have left?
Like 35 seconds.

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OK, so 12 Angry Men is a film
about a jury trying to decide if

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a boy is innocent.
One juror is convinced that

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there is a shadow of a doubt,
the rest of them are not, and he

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has to prove them all wrong.
There you go, that's it.

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I like how you asked for how
much time you had left and then

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spent 4 seconds.
Well, let me tell you a little

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more about my lemon chicken or
so Bob.

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All right, so important context
to add to your, Brad explains.

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It's not just that they're
deciding if a boy is innocent.

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I mean, they are, but it's a
murder trial.

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This boy is on trial for his
life.

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He's going to get sent to the
electric chair if found guilty,

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and they're determining whether
or not he murdered his own

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father.
The boy grew up in what is

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referred to many times as the
slums and the jurors.

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He's just a dirty Italian, Bob.
He's.

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Truly man, I'm surprised we
didn't hear some very

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insensitive epithets thrown his
way.

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I was going to say for 1950s
they do a very good job of being

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racist without being overtly
like like using.

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Actual slurs, right?
I was going to say it's, it's

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overt.
It's just like, you know, I

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don't know what's, what's the
word, I was going to say polite

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racism, but it's not that
either.

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You know, that polite version of
racism that nobody minds?

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All right, so anyway, all of the
jurors, or most of the jurors I

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should say, bring their own
personal baggage into the room

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with them, and one by one they
are convinced that the boy may

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or may not be innocent.
And Brad, this is just a really

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good movie.
Yeah, yeah, this movie is

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incredible.
I think it comes from the fact

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that this might be Drum roll,
Please.

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The best script we've ever had
on the.

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Podcast.
It is a perfectly structured

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script and.
And not just for the dialogue

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and the flow and and all of
those things which work

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incredibly well.
I don't know if I've ever seen a

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script with at least I would say
like 9 of the 12 jurors have

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incredibly well fleshed out
histories and character quirks.

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And like, you know, there's one
or two of them that don't quite

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get as much screen time.
But overall, almost every single

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character in this film is deep
and rich and intriguing.

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And I like, I want to know more
about them.

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And then you put their
performances on top of that.

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I like this movie is incredible
Bob.

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Yeah, just from a structural
standpoint, let's talk about

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this script a little bit because
one of the things it does so

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brilliantly is every time there
is some sort of a blow up or a

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vote or a new piece of evidence
is introduced and you can tell

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it kind of shakes that room to
its core.

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Then there's always like a lull.
There's always a calm after the

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storm and before the next storm.
And it's in those moments that

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they do a really good job of
introducing character quirks.

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So for example, like one of the
jurors, I think it's juror #2

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he's a really stuck up, stuffy,
like stockbroker guy.

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And that's three.
That's three.

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Yeah.
Oh, OK.

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And because number 2 is Lee J
Cobb.

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Oh, OK.
I thought he was three.

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OK, Anyway, so the the
stockbroker guy, it's in one of

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these walls and someone sits
next to him and everyone's

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remarking on how hot it is in
this room because it's the 50s

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and they don't have air
conditioning in this room.

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And someone asks him, don't you
ever sweat?

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And he just goes, no, I don't.
And it comes back later in the

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script.
You know, he, he kind of gets

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put on his heels a little bit
and you see this one drop of

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sweat start dripping down his
brow and you're like, they got

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him.
And so just just structurally,

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it's, it's so brilliant because
it gives itself room to breathe

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and it gives the audience time
to catch its breath.

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But it's not simply doing that
just for the sake of having ebbs

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and flows.
It uses the ebbs like as well as

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it uses the flows to establish
character and pay offs for later

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on in the movie.
Yeah, for.

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Well, First off, I have to tell
you something, Bob.

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I was wrong and you were right.
Hey, Lee J Lee J Cobb was juror

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#3, and juror #2 was played by
John Fiedler.

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Yes.
Just just in case anybody needed

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to know that.
John Fiedler.

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Fun fact, Brad, I hope this is
not one of your two facts and a

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falsehood.
Did you recognize his voice from

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anywhere?
I did.

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I'm the whole movie.
It was him and the the baseball

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guy at the end of the table.
I think number six or seven.

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Yep, Yep.
His voice.

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I was like, I have heard his
voice before, but I can't place

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it.
Well, we will.

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I think maybe we should go
around the juror table and kind

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of talk about each one.
But before we, no, you know, let

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me just finish my thought on, on
juror #2 John Fiedler, the voice

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of Piglet in Winnie the Pooh.
Really.

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And as soon, as, as soon as you
think about it, you're like, Oh

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yeah, that's Piglet.
That's 100% Piglet.

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Can we talk for a second how
incredible the original Disney

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Winnie the Pooh movie is?
It's very good.

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It's so good.
It's got that like classic kids

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movie acid trip in the middle of
it, which, you know, obviously

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makes the movie what it is.
But man, oh man, Piglet, who

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would have known?
All right, so let's start at the

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head of the table.
Juror number one of the foreman

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is played by a great character
actor named Martin Balsam, who

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we have seen in a couple other
movies for this podcast, Brad,

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most notably in Psycho.
He is the detective in Psycho

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that gets stabbed.
Right in the forehead.

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Falls backwards down the steps.
Yeah, I remember that vividly.

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The thing about this movie is,
you know, Henry Fonda and Lee J

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Cobb are, I guess ostensibly the
stars of this movie.

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And if you're breaking down, you
know, who gets the most words

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spoken versus who gets the least
words spoken.

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They they definitely are the two
biggest roles.

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00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,840
But something that really stood
out to me on this watch, Brad,

224
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,320
is how evenly spread out
everything is in this script.

225
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,560
And so I don't have a lot to say
about each actor, but I think it

226
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:20,160
says a lot in itself that every
single one of them essentially

227
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,240
holds down 112th of this movie.
And I don't really know that

228
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,880
there is a a weak link in the
cast.

229
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,800
Everything works really well for
me.

230
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,800
I, I would mostly agree with
you, I think that the older

231
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:40,440
gentleman juror #9 I believe I,
I struggle with him.

232
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,400
He like, of all the jurors, he's
the one that feels most like

233
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,040
somebody who is hamming it up
because he knows he's on camera

234
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,480
and, and there's just a few
moments where he's overacting

235
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,000
and, and just really beyond his
scope.

236
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,680
I feel like, but other than,
other than him and, and here's

237
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,880
the thing, I actually still love
his character.

238
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,680
I think that the way he
interacts with everyone is

239
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,480
funny.
I think he also gets kind of

240
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,120
not, not screwed over, but I, I
don't think the camera does him

241
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,680
any favors because there's like
three shots early in the film

242
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,040
where every other shot has been,
there's been some close-ups.

243
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,680
But then they, they get up into
his face like they're trying to

244
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:28,560
like zoom in on a family sitting
on his nose, like they are right

245
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,840
up in his business and he's just
got this goofy like look on his

246
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,960
face.
And I, and so I, I think those

247
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,960
are a few small moments that I'm
kind of like, OK, like this

248
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,360
movie's not perfect.
But even all that being said, I

249
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,400
love the older gentleman.
I, I don't even know what his,

250
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,360
what his name is, the actor.
His name is Joseph Sweeney, and

251
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,200
we can get back to him when we
get around the table.

252
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,320
But let's let's go back to OK.
So jury #1 Martin Balsam.

253
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,000
Very good.
I have no no real notes on him,

254
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,560
Do you?
He's one of the two or three

255
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:04,680
that I'm like, he's there.
Yeah, they don't flush him out

256
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,520
very well for sure.
They give him a little monologue

257
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,800
about like being a high school
football coach, and you think

258
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,960
that story's going somewhere.
And then it just doesn't.

259
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,840
Like his story just ends with.
And then it rained and I'm like,

260
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,960
oh cool, thank you for.
That's the the mom's cancer.

261
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,680
The mom's cancer from the room.
They just needed to insert like

262
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,080
I too have seen rain before.
Yeah, he's, he's playing the,

263
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,920
you know, the famous archetype
character guy who has seen rain.

264
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,960
Yes, obviously it's a trope.
Look it up on what's What's that

265
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,360
website that has all the tropes?
I think TV Tropes, I think it's,

266
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,080
yeah, TV Tropes.
All right, so John Fiedler is

267
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,200
juror #2 he's another one that I
think kind of gets the short end

268
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,400
of the stick.
He's just a very small, mousy

269
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,200
guy who gets bullied a lot, but
he has a a great couple zingers.

270
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,600
Like when the racist guy is
like, you know, where's all

271
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,600
those cough drops?
And he's like, they're all gone

272
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,000
friend because the guy keeps
calling everybody friend.

273
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,520
So like he has his moments.
But I think, again, for me, he's

274
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,440
probably one of the, you know,
the three or so that aren't

275
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,880
fleshed out enough.
Oh, I my brain got confused.

276
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,960
I was thinking that you were
talking about the banker who is

277
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,920
sitting to Lee J Cops left.
That's I think that's why I was

278
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,080
thinking Lee J was #2 Anyways,
John Fiedler is great.

279
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,760
We can move on to Lee Lee Cobb.
Lee J Cobb is a great actor.

280
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,720
He is known for being the heavy
and movies like this.

281
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,560
He is one of the great on screen
screamers because it's

282
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,000
believable, like the man is
channeling deep rage and I.

283
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,840
Was going to say, I feel like
Jack Nicholson probably bit off

284
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,640
a lot of Lee J Cobb in his
performances.

285
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:54,200
There is just such passion and
vigor.

286
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,080
And when he rips up his son's
picture at the end of it, Oh my

287
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,360
gosh, dude.
What an emotional wallop.

288
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,480
Yeah, who knew that this was
going to be a father son drama

289
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,840
by the end of it?
They all are, Brad.

290
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,880
They all are.
Every single one.

291
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,520
So the thing about Lee J Cobb's
character is, you know, he is

292
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,600
the last one at the end of the
film, spoiler alert, to vote not

293
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,640
guilty.
And it's really brilliantly set

294
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,800
up and we'll talk about why, but
his is the most personal reason.

295
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,160
His is it's not logic based, but
it's kind of hidden behind

296
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,000
logic.
And so as you watch the last

297
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,960
three or four people kind of
convert, you know, it becomes

298
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,240
like the really racist guy and
then the guy who is the most

299
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,360
logical.
And then it's Lee J Cobb because

300
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,200
his is the closest to home.
He had a falling out with his

301
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,160
own son.
And he is clearly bringing the

302
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,840
guilt that he feels about it
into the deliberation room with

303
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,280
him.
And you're right, man, when when

304
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,760
he rips up that picture at the
end of the movie and you just

305
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,720
see him kind of like whimper, he
goes like, and then you hear him

306
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,360
cry into his own arm like, no,
no.

307
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,560
You know, it's one of those
things that at the end of the

308
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,480
day, despite all of the walls
that he's built up with his son,

309
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,800
it's the fact that he refuses at
the end of the day to completely

310
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,440
give up on his son and his
relationship with his son and

311
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,800
his love for his son.
And that's the only reason that

312
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,040
he comes back around and says
not guilty.

313
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,400
It's a really touching and
beautiful moment.

314
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,320
Well you can tell that he is so
incredibly angry with his son

315
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,920
that he wants to murder their
relationship and when it comes

316
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:39,560
down to it, he can't.
And like that like dude, what a

317
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,560
script all.
Right.

318
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,440
Let's talk really quickly about
Lee J Cobb, though, because he

319
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,040
is, like I said, one of the
great screamers on screen, one

320
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,720
of the great big tough guys.
And I have never seen a more

321
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,160
seamless transition than this of
like, he handed the baton off to

322
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,680
George C Scott and then George C
Scott took it and ran with it in

323
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,160
movies like Doctor Strangelove.
And it's so funny because their

324
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,360
names are so similar that you
can almost confuse them for Lee

325
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,320
J Cobb, George C Scott, they
play the exact same type of

326
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,360
character.
You know, this movie actually

327
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:14,760
gets remade in the late 90s as
an HBO drama.

328
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,520
And the Lee J Cobb character is
played by George C Scott in that

329
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,960
movie.
So it's like they share this

330
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,520
kind of spiritual DNA with each
other.

331
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,880
And and I think sometimes, like
we forget about guys like Lee J

332
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,800
Cobb because they're always the
bad guy.

333
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,800
They're always the heavy.
But what always stands out to me

334
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,240
is how believable he makes his
characters.

335
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,320
I'm going to be honest with you,
I I don't remember who George C

336
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,800
Scott is.
He's the guy from Strangelove

337
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,760
that was like the gum chewing.
Like not the general, but the

338
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,080
guy that was talking about the
Ruskies.

339
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,760
Yes, yes, yes, Buck, I think his
name was.

340
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,160
I think so.
Yeah.

341
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,800
OK, that that clicks for me.
Yes.

342
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,600
Lee J Cobb and George C Scott
are wildly similar at Yeah.

343
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,680
I'm not helping you in your
point, Bob, because I don't know

344
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,560
of him and anything other than
Doctor Strangelove or how I

345
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,160
learned to stop worrying and
love the bomb.

346
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,680
So.
Well, there you go.

347
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,080
There you go.
And we will leave Mr. Cobb alone

348
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,680
now and move on to EG Marshall
juror #4.

349
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,320
He is the guy who is the stuck
up stockbroker and I think he

350
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,520
does a really good job.
But once again, it's like,

351
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,320
that's just who he is, you know
what I mean?

352
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,440
Yeah, 100%.
I, I think that throughout the

353
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,920
film, the nuance I love for him
is how he is staunchly on the

354
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,000
guilty side, but he doesn't want
to be identified with the crazy

355
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,360
people on the guilty side.
And I, I think that in that

356
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:52,040
character, you've, it's easy to
find yourself in there in a

357
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:57,400
modern world where it feels like
everyone and like, I'm talking

358
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,560
about our current culture at
this point, it feels like

359
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,600
everyone wants to stereotype
everyone else into like, you're

360
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,000
a crazy right wing person or
you're a crazy left wing person.

361
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,200
And as with everybody, whether
you're left wing or right wing,

362
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,720
you have your reasons for being
over there, but you don't want

363
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,760
to get lumped in with all the,
you know, wild, crazy people on

364
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,240
your side.
The Fringe.

365
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,680
Yeah, exactly.
And like, I think you can see

366
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,520
that in his character.
And the nuance there comes out a

367
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,160
little later in the film.
But it made me appreciate his

368
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,360
character and his acting a lot
more.

369
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,200
There's a great moment after Lee
J Cobb has one of his first big

370
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,960
blow UPS and he's kind of off to
the side.

371
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,440
I think it's when the the jury
split 6/6 and the stockbroker

372
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,520
comes over to get some water and
he's like, I Can you believe,

373
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,160
you know, I'm sorry, I got a
little flustered, but he's just

374
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,840
trying to bait me.
I can tell he's just trying to

375
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,640
bait me.
And he doesn't even make eye

376
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,680
contact and just says, well, he
certainly did a good job.

377
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,400
But they use his character so
well because especially at the

378
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,960
end of the movie when it's like
they're the last two, Lee J Cobb

379
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,360
and him, they actually framed
the shots where Lee J Cobb is

380
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,000
sitting behind him in the shot.
And he's basically telling Henry

381
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,760
Fonda, like, look, you've made
some really compelling points.

382
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,880
Here are the things that I'm
still hung up on.

383
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,840
And it's a great visual
representation of what Lee J

384
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,800
Cobb has been doing the whole
movie because every time he

385
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,320
needs to reiterate facts or, you
know, he needs something in his

386
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,000
corner, he taps that guy on the
shoulder and says, hey, you tell

387
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,160
him.
You tell him exactly, you know,

388
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,080
And then he'll say something.
And he goes, yeah, that's the

389
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,520
thing that I believe, too.
And it's just a great picture of

390
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,320
how he's hiding behind the logic
without actually using it.

391
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:49,480
You know, yeah, 100%.
And I, I think it also serves to

392
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,360
be, you know, this is in the mid
to late 50s.

393
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,120
We've just come off a period
with lots of dictators.

394
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,440
I, I think that Lee J Cobb kind
of serves to represent a Hitler,

395
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,760
Mussolini, Stalin type of
personality that there's not a

396
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,600
lot of facts behind what they're
saying, but man, oh man, are

397
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,760
they loud and persuasive and
brash.

398
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,440
But when you actually sit back
and and you're a little more

399
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,400
cool headed about it and ask
questions it, you know, people

400
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,520
kind of fall away from them
eventually.

401
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,520
All right, juror #5 is played by
Jack Klugman, who goes on to

402
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,320
have a really successful career,
especially in television.

403
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,720
He is the original Oscar in The
Odd Couple TV show.

404
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,640
I'm pretty sure he's an Emmy
winner.

405
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,120
I think he's absolutely great in
this movie, man.

406
00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:39,280
He, he plays the kid from a
rough neighborhood who is still

407
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,600
very sensitive to that topic,
and he plays it so, so well.

408
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,280
Like, they don't give him a ton
of lines, but you can see his

409
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,920
discomfort as people talk about
kids from the slums until he

410
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,280
finally speaks up.
And what this movie does so

411
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,160
well, both from, like, Henry
Fonda and the Old Man and Jack

412
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,280
Klugman, is these people are
very polite until it's time for

413
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,240
them to take their kind of
principled stand.

414
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,240
And they're not always pushy
with it.

415
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,320
But when it's their turn to
speak, they say, no, no, no.

416
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,440
Listen, I need you to understand
this.

417
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,480
There's something about my own
experience that you need to hear

418
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,760
because you're clearly not
factoring that in right now, and

419
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,480
his character is a great example
of that.

420
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:23,680
Yeah.
And I I think that what Jack

421
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,040
does so incredibly well, it is
that moment where he and Lee J

422
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,400
Cobb get into it because Cobb
thinks that he's changed his

423
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,360
vote.
And and then you get the 1st, a

424
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:38,800
close up of the old man saying
that he was the one who did it.

425
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,120
But it.
But it's moments like that where

426
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:44,280
you can tell this man is
conflicted.

427
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,000
This man is struggling with what
he believes, and he's willing to

428
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,520
listen to arguments on both
sides.

429
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,840
And in the midst of all that you
can, you can feel the inner

430
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,400
turmoil of like this kids just
like me.

431
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,120
And I, you know, his guilty vote
might not just be against the

432
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,240
kid, it might be against himself
as well.

433
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,720
And like the fact that you can
read all of that from his facial

434
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,960
expressions and the way he
delivers his lines.

435
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:14,680
I think Klugman.
Klugman is incredible here.

436
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,240
Jared number six is played by
Edward Binz.

437
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,880
He is also a pretty
underdeveloped character.

438
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,800
And yet I will say he gives one
of my favorite performances of

439
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,200
anybody at the table.
He does a really good job of

440
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,880
embodying like the blue collar
worker.

441
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,720
I think he they say that he's a
painter, like he's a contracted

442
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,080
painter and he does a great job
of sticking up for like the old

443
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,320
man.
I just really wish there was

444
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,400
more of his character in this
movie because I believe Brad,

445
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,560
he's the one that goes in the
bathroom with Henry Fonda and

446
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,200
had that great line where the
stakes of the movie shift

447
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,520
dramatically because, you know,
Henry Fonda is is doing his

448
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,680
principled thing and turning
people's opinions.

449
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,040
And I think it's like a nine to
three vote at that point.

450
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,680
And he just, he asked Henry
Fonda the question, like, hey,

451
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,760
suppose you convince us all that
this kid is innocent and he

452
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,400
really did murder his father.
And then he just walks out.

453
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,640
And it's the first time that
possibility has been introduced.

454
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,720
Yeah.
So they use his character really

455
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,440
well.
But the performance I thought

456
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,960
was just excellent, man.
Yeah.

457
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,480
And, and I think that he and,
and Klugman are like the

458
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,680
examples of how this film, you
know, doesn't give all of the

459
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,600
jurors an equal chance.
And yet because of their acting

460
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,560
performances, they raise those
two characters to a level that

461
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000
the script might not naturally
give them.

462
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,040
And so it, it is this pairing of
like, yes, they have some, some

463
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,240
good lines to help them
establish character, but it,

464
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,480
there's so many scenes where
they're saying nothing, but

465
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,040
they're, you know, just off
center from the camera and you

466
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,200
can feel the energy radiating
off of them that I, I, I just

467
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,040
think, man, like they got the
perfect cast for this film.

468
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,320
Yeah, man, let's breeze through
these last few.

469
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,880
And I guess we could even hold
off on talking about Henry Fonda

470
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,360
for a bit, if you want.
Jack Worden is juror #7.

471
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:10,720
He plays guy who wants to go to
baseball game and he plays him

472
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,200
very well.
I do think that there are times

473
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,960
where his like the accent he's
trying to do and the kind of

474
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,640
dumb guy thing he's trying to do
get a little distracting.

475
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,520
Like he gets cornered by the the
European watchmaker and he's

476
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,520
like, no, no, you have to tell
me why you think he's not

477
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,400
guilty.
And he goes, I don't, I don't

478
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,080
think he's guilty.
It's just the way he says it.

479
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,760
It's like very Yogi Bear
sounding, you know what I mean?

480
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,000
And it's fine.
But I think that his is probably

481
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,640
one of my less favorite
performances here.

482
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,360
Bob, all I care about at this
point is why do I recognize his

483
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,040
voice?
I don't know why.

484
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,800
Oh.
I, I thought earlier when I said

485
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,000
it, you said we'd get to him
later.

486
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,920
I thought you had like an answer
like, oh, he was Eeyore in in

487
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:03,560
the Winnie the Pooh poofie.
No, I mean, he was a a really

488
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,560
well respected character actor.
He was in a lot of TV shows and

489
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,440
a lot of movies, but I don't,
I'm looking at a bunch of TV

490
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,960
shows that he was on and I don't
know if you've watched any of

491
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,360
them so.
Oh man, yeah, that that's tough.

492
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,800
He is somebody that 100%.
I recognize his voice.

493
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,520
I'm going to have to get on on
the old Google after this and

494
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,840
see if I can figure it out.
All right, we'll skip Fonda for

495
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,720
now.
Juror #9 the old man we've kind

496
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,640
of already touched on.
I think the performance is

497
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,680
better than you do, and I think
they do a really good job.

498
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,600
You know, Lumet likes to use
these extreme close-ups in these

499
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,840
moments where people are being
the most confrontational and

500
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,280
also the most vulnerable.
And the first time they cut to

501
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,440
one of those type of close-ups
is when the old man is having

502
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,560
his confessional about the other
old man who had testified and

503
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,160
basically accusing that guy of
just wanting attention.

504
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,560
And not in a bad way, but just
because when you're old and

505
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,440
lonely, that's what you're
looking for.

506
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,360
And you don't realize as he's
building his argument that he's

507
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:07,480
talking about himself.
And you get that great

508
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,960
realization a moment later.
But yeah, for a guy who has the

509
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,560
camera 3 inches from his face
for a lot of his performance,

510
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,480
like, yeah, I, I think he does
pretty good, man.

511
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,960
Yeah, I I think overall his
character is well written.

512
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,760
I think that his performance is
like the only like B minus

513
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,000
performance in the film.
And that's totally fine.

514
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,960
Like it still works.
My least favorite performance

515
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,440
here is juror #10 Ed Begley, who
I actually think is a really

516
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,760
good actor.
His son, Ed Ed Begley Junior is

517
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,560
really popular actor that you
would probably recognize from

518
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,840
some things.
Brad, he is.

519
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,560
He's good and his character is
necessary.

520
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,440
He's just the overt racist in
the group.

521
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,120
But it's like when he stands up
and gives his big impassioned

522
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,440
plea at the end of the movie
that like none of these people

523
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,960
are any good.
And everyone 1 by 1 gets up and

524
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,280
turns their back on him
silently.

525
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,920
And then he the realization sets
in and he goes off in the corner

526
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:11,080
and never says anything again.
That's the most strained moment

527
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,400
of the movie for me.
Like it no one really is acting

528
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,640
like they would in real life in
that moment.

529
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,080
And it just feels more like, oh,
this is my visual representation

530
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,440
of how we end racism.
Do you know what I mean?

531
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,320
I just like, no one interrupts
him.

532
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,680
No one's like, ah, this guy.
They just all silently move away

533
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,000
and like it looks cool, but it
just, it was the one moment that

534
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,560
didn't feel real for me.
Yeah, no, I, I that was like

535
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,680
kind of a note that I took while
I was watching it.

536
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,240
There.
There's something about that

537
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,600
where you can feel Lumet's voice
stronger than at any other point

538
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,600
in the movie.
Does that make sense?

539
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,840
Like, like through the camera
work, through the blocking of

540
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,880
where the actors are walking,
you're like, oh, I get it,

541
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,920
Lumet.
We're just, we're just all

542
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:04,440
turning our backs on racism now.
Go America and, and, and I don't

543
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,160
know, that sounds weird to say
because we're all against

544
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,400
racism.
It's bad.

545
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:09,960
We all should turn our backs on
it.

546
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,720
But there there was something
about it that felt preachy

547
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,440
compared to the rest of the
film.

548
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,480
I do appreciate, though, that
it's like it's the most drastic

549
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,600
reaction of the group because
everyone else has their little

550
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,400
personal peccadillo's, you know,
like, yeah, like the holes get

551
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,040
poked in them and they get kind
of turned.

552
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,800
And then I think the argument
like, mad.

553
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,600
What's that?
Just like the father.

554
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,080
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that the point

555
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,280
Lumet's trying to make here is
this guy doesn't really have a

556
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,520
personal reason and other than
he just doesn't like these kind

557
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,760
of people.
It's like there's there's no,

558
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,560
he's formed an opinion and he
just hates people.

559
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,360
And I think it gets to the point
sometimes where there is just no

560
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,960
humanity to appeal to the way
you can with the Lee J Cobb.

561
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,600
And so at that point, the only
thing you could do is just tell

562
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,600
him to shut up and sit down,
which is what the stockbroker

563
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,280
does.
Yeah, yeah.

564
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,200
I will say that's another moment
where like if all the turning

565
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,040
around and, you know, turning
their backs to him is kind of a

566
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,800
little bit cheesy.
The the way the stockbroker

567
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,440
delivers that line is so
cutting.

568
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,680
And like, man, he cuts him
straight out at the knees and

569
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,440
he's done for the rest of the
movie.

570
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,240
And I that that's probably the
one part of that scene that I'm

571
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,200
like, yeah, you get him.
All right, we have two more

572
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,600
jurors, and then we'll take a
break.

573
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,400
George Voskovac plays juror #11
the European watchmaker.

574
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,200
He's pretty good.
He's also one of those ones that

575
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,480
it's like, oh, we're going to
use this character as a way for

576
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,600
us to talk about the goodness of
America.

577
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,120
Like he stands up and, and does
the whole like, what are the

578
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,840
things that I, I longed for in
the old country?

579
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,040
And it's OK, man.
Like we get it.

580
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,120
Democracy is great, you know.
Also, I think you have to be

581
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,120
Eastern European to call it the
old country.

582
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,080
I don't know if you're allowed
to do that from France.

583
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,960
Oh, OK, well, there you go.
France.

584
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,600
France, very famously not an old
country.

585
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,880
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I, I like him a lot.

586
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,600
I think he does a good job with
what he's asked to do.

587
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,840
I think one of the funniest
lines of the movie is when he he

588
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,120
corrects the racist guy's
speech.

589
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,360
That man.
Because like the the French guy

590
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,760
does not speak for like the
first 80% of the movie pretty

591
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,040
much except for that one line
and it's in that one line.

592
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,040
I just about lost it.
So he has some good moments for

593
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,320
sure.
Juror #12 is a slick ad

594
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,320
executive played by Robert Weber
and Brad.

595
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,200
I think you.
I think you mispronounced

596
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,040
beautiful as slick.
He's a good looking man.

597
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,920
He's well built, incredible.
He's got that Mad Men suit and

598
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,960
and hairdo going as well.
The funny thing about him is

599
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,480
that he looks like, I don't know
Rock Hudson, you know, but he

600
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,800
he's trying to behave like Jack
Lemmon.

601
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,240
And the whole performance I was
like, Oh, Jack Lemmon was too

602
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,720
famous to be guy as juror #2 in
this movie.

603
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,520
So then they're like, Hey, you
do a good Jack Lemmon.

604
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,920
And I think it like it works.
And he he is the like fast

605
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,040
talking ad executive.
But it just felt like if if I

606
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,560
had had that movie on in the
background and not been watching

607
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,640
it and just listening to his
voice, it sounded like he was

608
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,920
trying to do a Jack Lemmon
impression to me.

609
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,920
Yeah, a little bit.
I think that he feels the least

610
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,960
real of all the characters, but
at the same time I think that

611
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,080
his, you know, script wise, his
character does add a lot to the

612
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,200
room.
I think that the acting

613
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,360
performance is just fine.
It's solid if anything.

614
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,080
Man, it's really hard when you
have 12 main characters to get

615
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,720
through anything else on a
podcast, Brad?

616
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,280
We haven't talked about Henry
Fonda and we haven't talked

617
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,440
about Lumet and the movie making
part of this.

618
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,560
I think it's time for us to hit
pause.

619
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,920
We'll come back and touch on
Fonda and then we'll talk a

620
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,320
little bit about what makes this
movie so great.

621
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:13,000
What do you say we drink this
whiskey?

622
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,400
You want to touch Henry Fonda?
He he touched me deep in my

623
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,159
soul.
Let's get to it, Bob.

624
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,920
All right, so today, Brad, we
are revisiting a brand that we

625
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,800
haven't even talked about since
I think season 1, maybe 2, and

626
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,040
that is very Old Barton.
Now to give just the briefest of

627
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,280
histories here, this is a
whiskey that I had like when I

628
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,480
first got on whiskey Instagram.
People were always like, you can

629
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,840
only find it in Kentucky, and
it's really cheap and it's

630
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,920
really good for the price.
Don't sleep on Very Old Barton.

631
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,480
And so I made a trip to
Kentucky.

632
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,280
I bought a bunch of whiskey for
our podcast.

633
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,560
And I was like, it's the one
that people on Instagram know.

634
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,520
And we hadn't really established
yet that like our podcast was

635
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,280
going to be about whiskeys
people can buy everywhere.

636
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,720
And so it became pretty
immediately apparent, like Very

637
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:11,440
Old Barton might be known by
people who visit Kentucky, but

638
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,000
not by anyone outside of that.
And I feel like I kind of

639
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,560
pigeonholed us into trying all
of them because there's 4 proof

640
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,320
points of Very Old Barton and we
ended up trying them all.

641
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,400
And fun fact, you can get this
in the state of Ohio now.

642
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:26,440
Oh, that's.
True.

643
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,280
I think, yeah, the 80 proof for
sure.

644
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,840
Can you buy all four variants in
Ohio?

645
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,360
I don't I I think it's just the
80 proof.

646
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,920
OK, so they'd make an 80 proof
and 86 proof, a 90 proof and a

647
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,200
bottled and bond version.
And the bottled and bond is 75%

648
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,960
corn, 15% rye, 10% barley.
I don't think there's any reason

649
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,760
to believe that this is a
different mash bill.

650
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,960
So we're dealing with a a high
ish rye bourbon.

651
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,360
It's aged according to the label
on the back of this small

652
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,080
plastic bottle for 36 months,
Brad.

653
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,480
So it's a three-year bourbon.
I've been thinking about this

654
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,840
lately.
You know, like, first of all, I

655
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,320
respect that they put that it's
a three-year bourbon on here.

656
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,760
Like a lot of places wouldn't
even do that and I respect that

657
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,080
at least.
Yeah, but I was going to ask you

658
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:18,440
like, what do you think is the
age of a bourbon where you start

659
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,840
being like?
I'll drink that.

660
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,440
Like you don't have to give the
caveat anymore.

661
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,560
Like oh it's good for a two year
bourbon.

662
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,640
Like when do you drop the four
NX year?

663
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,680
I think that once a whiskey hits
four years, I kind of stop

664
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,200
worrying about the age, like
worrying in the sense of like,

665
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,800
like I still want to know the
age if it's a six year and

666
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,760
eight-year or 12 year.
But I, I stopped worrying in the

667
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,160
sense of like, oh, is that going
to be any good?

668
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,960
Like once you hit four years, I
assume that it has aged long

669
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,120
enough to get the character
necessary to make me pull my

670
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,880
wallet out.
I think honestly though, as

671
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,560
like, if we can transition into
the nose on this bourbon, man,

672
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,280
at three years and at 80 proof,
I'm pretty shocked at how

673
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,800
pleasant this smells.
Yeah, it, it's not bad.

674
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,080
I got like some caramel, some
peanuts, some ethanol.

675
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,080
And then the longer I sat with
it, the overwhelming, like, I

676
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,800
could not get this out of my
head.

677
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,280
I think this smells like apple
juice, Bob.

678
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,320
Oh interesting.
See I'm getting a completely

679
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,160
different fruit, but I'm getting
banana on this like a lot.

680
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:31,120
I'm like fresh baked banana
bread and I have a friend that

681
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,280
makes this bread this like
almost like a banana cake, but

682
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,120
it's like a banana bread that
has like a, a brown sugar kind

683
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,480
of Maple frosting on it.
And I'm getting a ton of that

684
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:41,720
here.
I get the banana, I get the

685
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,720
brown sugar.
I do think that like if you

686
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,720
really go in for the nose, there
are some notes that are like,

687
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,280
oh, this smells a little bit
cheap.

688
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,280
Like there's there's a little
bit of like wet paper for me on

689
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,880
this as well, but it's almost
like it's covered up by these

690
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,440
syrupy sweet Roma's on top of
that.

691
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560
So it kind of masks the fact
that this is like a $10 whiskey

692
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,520
and I'm cool with that.
I'm going to give it a 7 1/2 on

693
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,600
the nose.
Have you ever Have you ever

694
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,720
taken a banana that's like,
you're like, oh, I'm on the edge

695
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,120
of whether or not I could eat
this.

696
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,840
And there's enough black spots
on it that I'm a little nervous.

697
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,840
I think that's what that's what
this smells like for me.

698
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,520
Like, I'm with you.
It has a banana smell, but it's

699
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,720
a it's like a little too sweet
over a little bit like, yeah,

700
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:32,480
over ripe banana.
The note that all whiskey

701
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,760
producers.
Are going for?

702
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,720
Yeah, exactly.
I personally gave this a 4 1/2

703
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,760
on on the nose.
Out of 10.

704
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,600
Yes.
No Bob, I actually decided to

705
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,520
switch it up this week.
I'm scoring everything out of a

706
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,040
77.75 is my Max.
Wow, I thought this was way

707
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,440
better than a four and a half.
I'm going to give it a sip.

708
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,160
Why don't you tell us what
you're tasting notes are?

709
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,840
The taste is decent.
I think that there's vanilla,

710
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,960
there's some like just like
almost a generic like heavy

711
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,560
whipping cream.
There's apple peel.

712
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,240
I don't really get much caramel
and the, the fruitiness that I

713
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:18,120
experienced on the nose, that
apple juice overripe banana kind

714
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:23,480
of just turns into what, what
would you say the the tasting

715
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,600
note is on like an overripe
banana?

716
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,440
Like like, I don't, I don't want
to call it, you know?

717
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,880
Yeah, it's hard because when
when a banana is too green, it's

718
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,800
kind of sour, and when a banana
is too ripe, it's kind of sour.

719
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,880
But they're different.
They're very different.

720
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,920
Yeah, exactly.
So I'm like, I don't know if

721
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,640
like sickly sweet is the right
word, but it's like, it's like

722
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,120
the wrong kind of sweet.
I I think it's a decent palette.

723
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,000
I'll give it a 5 1/2 out of 10
here.

724
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,120
I'm wondering if if part of the
reason that our notes are about

725
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,160
to be different is because of
the different nosing notes we

726
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,520
picked up.
So I had that like overly sweet

727
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,760
Maple, brown sugar and banana.
And so I was expecting a really

728
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,120
sweet palate and I was
disappointed in how not sweet

729
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,760
the palate was based on what I
was expecting, right?

730
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,080
So like, it's really oaky.
And then for me, the rye and the

731
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,240
malt took over.
Like it gets really, really

732
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,160
almost like a toasted oak kind
of flavor, but then.

733
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,840
It almost like sapped the like
it was almost tannic for me and

734
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,480
I think I'm the malt in the rye
had a lot to do with that.

735
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,240
I wouldn't call it bitter, but
it's definitely unsweet and at

736
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,600
80 proof it was a little bit
aggressive too.

737
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,400
I don't know if I would say that
it was like alcohol forward.

738
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:41,640
It packed a punch.
Like I actually think this would

739
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,520
go really well in a cocktail
because it stands up so well,

740
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,800
but it was just not what I was
expecting on the flavor.

741
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,480
I'm going to give it just a 5
1/2.

742
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,480
Yeah.
And as I got into the finish,

743
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,600
it, it doesn't finish well.
It it kind of sours for me.

744
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,760
There's a little bit of a
leathery like essence of leather

745
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,880
type of feel.
O day leather.

746
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,160
O day leather, it's kind of oaky
on the end.

747
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,560
It gets a little bittery sour.
I'll come back down to a 4 1/2

748
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,120
on the finish.
Yeah.

749
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,080
I mean, I just don't think it's
anything to write home about.

750
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,000
I would give it a six, but I
don't know that I'm even that

751
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,560
positive about it.
I'm just very neutral.

752
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,520
So I think another 5 1/2 is in
order here.

753
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,760
And that takes us to balance
where, you know, Brad, we, we

754
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,720
try to be objective about our
first four categories and then

755
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:37,160
if it's a cheap whiskey that is
OK, we kind of reward it in the

756
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:42,200
value category.
I don't think this is a really

757
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,360
well balanced whiskey.
Like, I mean it, it's well

758
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,440
balanced in that it's like just
very mediocre across the board.

759
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,200
I guess I'll give it a six on
balance.

760
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,720
Where are you sitting on it?
I'm actually at the same point.

761
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:59,720
And I think for me it's not the
fact that it's mediocre with

762
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:02,480
like crazy different notes
throughout, it's the fact that

763
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,480
like the flavors remain pretty
consistent and steady throughout

764
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,880
there.
There's nothing that like

765
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,840
overpowers you on the nose and
then disappears on the taste.

766
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,480
And like all the flavors kind of
are present.

767
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,840
They're there.
They they stay the same and I

768
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,800
think that's fine.
So yeah, 6 out of 10.

769
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,160
All right.
And that takes us to value,

770
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,800
Brad, since this is sold in Ohio
now, what is the price on a

771
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:32,200
750ML bottle?
This will set you back 21

772
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:32,840
dollars.
What?

773
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,600
The 80 proof?
Yes Sir.

774
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,920
Oh, that's crazy.
Now, I don't think I've ever

775
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,600
done this before.
I can tell you for a fact that

776
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,880
it was not nearly that expensive
when I visited Kentucky just a

777
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,240
few months ago to pick up these
samples for us.

778
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,400
In fact, I got us these 200ML
tiny little bottles.

779
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,120
They were $3 a piece.
Like I'm pretty sure this bottle

780
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,120
in a 750 was either 1199 or
1299.

781
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,960
Yeah.
So I don't really know, like I

782
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,960
don't know how to score this,
Brad, because I'm, I'm grateful

783
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,200
that Ohio picked it up, but I
was planning to score it out

784
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,760
based on Kentucky prices because
I thought it was only available

785
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:14,960
there.
Yeah.

786
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:20,040
I mean, looking online, I see a
lot of prices in the 13 to

787
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,400
$16.00 range.
So I think it'd be fair to call

788
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,240
this a $15 whiskey.
All right cool so it's right in

789
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:30,160
line with like a benchmark.
I think benchmark is better than

790
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,560
this like I think this smells
better than benchmark.

791
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,280
I think benchmarks better at 15
bucks.

792
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,480
There are only a few whiskeys
you can actually buy so like

793
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,680
it's not the best one in the
category though so I think I'm

794
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,560
automatically going to dock it a
few.

795
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,520
I'll give it a 7 out of 10 on
value because it's not

796
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,960
unpalatable and you can't really
get any cheaper for a bottle of

797
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,080
whiskey.
Yeah, I'll, I'll give it a 7 1/2

798
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,720
as well.
I think that this is a really

799
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,400
solid expression at 1516
dollars.

800
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,000
I think that even at 80 proof
the the flavors remain solid

801
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,480
throughout.
It does have a little bit of pop

802
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,760
of flavor on the palate and if
you're going to spend $15 on

803
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,880
whiskey, like you might as well
spend it here.

804
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:22,240
So I I think it's a solid value.
Bob, I am coming out to a 28 out

805
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:23,440
of 50.
Where are you at?

806
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,160
Brad, I'm at a 31 1/2 out of 50,
which kind of feels high from

807
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,680
being honest, but like that
value score really boosted it.

808
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:39,040
So we are at just a 59.5 out of
100 or a 29.75 out of 50.

809
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,040
I think that's a pretty fair
score.

810
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:46,600
Like, yeah, this is a an
extremely mediocre whiskey that

811
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,920
is boosted by the fact that it's
like 14 bucks.

812
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,560
Yeah, 100%.
If this cost, as you said, if it

813
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:58,080
cost $2122, I think it would
fall off pretty quickly.

814
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,280
But at $15 like you can't make
the argument that this needs to

815
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,400
compete with Rebel 100 like it
it is a genuine lower price

816
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,760
category.
I think it does its job pretty

817
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,720
pretty admirably.
All right.

818
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:15,560
Now the real question is, which
juror do you think this most

819
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:21,160
appeals to?
I think the baseball juror #7II,

820
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,200
I just think that this is his go
to drink.

821
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,640
Well, as long as it's not like
the, you know, raging racist

822
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,000
guy, I think that it's kind of
just pick, take your pick, and

823
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,160
then you're OK.
We, we don't want to put that on

824
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,880
any of our, our whiskey brands,
Bob.

825
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,240
No, especially not this one.
All right, man, let's get back

826
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,360
into talking about 12 angry men.
What do you say?

827
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:47,200
Let's get to it.
All right, everybody, That was

828
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:53,240
very old Barton 80 proof, a
whiskey that cost little money

829
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,480
and will probably make little
impact on your life.

830
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,000
And that's OK, Sometimes you
know it.

831
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,680
Is yeah, sometimes you just need
a whiskey that is unremarkable.

832
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,240
You you can't appreciate the
great whiskey.

833
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,840
Without having a baseline, yeah.
Yeah, if you don't have very old

834
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,680
Barton 80.
When I was a kid, every once in

835
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,560
a while my mom would take us to
see a movie and it would be a

836
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,840
movie that usually like a movie
I didn't pick, but it was like

837
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,960
the kids movie that was out at
the time and it was mediocre.

838
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,920
And we would leave and the the
thing my mom would say as we

839
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,880
walked out to the car was that
was cute.

840
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,280
And cute was like, you know, it
was fine.

841
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,160
Even like 7 year old Bob knew
what she meant.

842
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,200
Yeah, You know, like, it wasn't
great, but we had an OK time.

843
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,520
And then, you know, this, this
whiskey was cute.

844
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:38,720
Yeah.
And that's OK.

845
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,600
About being you.
Need those exactly.

846
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,360
Well, you know what else brings
us together, Bob, and has never

847
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,080
once caused a riff in our
relationship?

848
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,840
Is it 2 facts and a falsehood?
2 facts and a falsehood baby.

849
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,480
Brad is going to try to stump
you.

850
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Ball 2 are right and what is
wrong?

851
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,000
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts
and a Falsehood is the part of

852
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,040
the podcast where Brad presents
three items to me as fact about

853
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,400
the making of this movie, one of
which is a complete lie, and I

854
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,600
have to figure out which one
that is.

855
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,880
Brad, there are so many
directions you can go with your

856
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,800
facts and falsehoods today.
There's twelve people to keep

857
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,000
track of, there's a great
screenplay, there's a great

858
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,440
director, and to be honest with
you, I finished watching this

859
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,240
movie like 8 minutes before we
started recording.

860
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:32,640
So I have not done any research
and I am very vulnerable to

861
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,400
losing today.
So with that.

862
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:41,920
As you are every day, Bob fact
#1 as juror #8 is pacing the

863
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,800
distance.
Henry Fonda, juror #7 makes fun

864
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,480
of the way he is pacing by
whistling.

865
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,720
The tune he whistles is called
Dance of the Cuckoos, which was

866
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:52,600
the theme song for Laurel and
Hardy.

867
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,800
Fact #2 at the time of this
recording, Bob, this is the

868
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,760
shortest movie in the IMDb top
ten as well as the only one in

869
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,200
the top ten to be under 2 hours
in length.

870
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,640
It is also the only movie in the
top 30 to be under 100 minutes

871
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,280
in length.
The next film to have a 2 digit

872
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,680
runtime is actually I'm.
I'm going to make you guess what

873
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,360
do you what do you think the
next film is?

874
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,120
We have watched it on the
podcast, I'll give you that.

875
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:21,840
I don't know.
Is it a chaplain?

876
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,680
Hey, good job dude.
Is it really?

877
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:26,480
Yeah, it is.
Well, what is it?

878
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,120
Well, you have to guess the you.
You guessed the director.

879
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,120
Modern Times.
No City lights City.

880
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,440
Lights all right?
That number 35, good job.

881
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,400
Though, man.
Well, thank you.

882
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,160
Yeah, but what if that's a
falsehood though?

883
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:39,760
Wait a minute.
What if that ends up being a

884
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:40,800
falsehood?
You can't tell me.

885
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Good job if I guessed something
you made-up.

886
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:50,560
I I'm hey man, maybe it is
modern times fact number three.

887
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,840
Of all the jurors in this film,
Edward Bin's juror number six is

888
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,880
the only one still alive at 102
years of age.

889
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,800
He was born in 1921 in
Philadelphia, PA.

890
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,320
I don't know, man.
All right, I'm just going to

891
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,280
assume number 2 is true just for
the time being, because you, you

892
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,360
said good job and I want to
believe that.

893
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:18,840
I guess something that's true #3
sounds like wild 102 years old

894
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,400
and number one was what was #1
again.

895
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,880
As as Henry Fonda is pacing.
Oh yeah, out of there.

896
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:31,400
He's whistling the Laurel and
Hardy themes.

897
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,760
There's a couple moments in this
movie where they make pop

898
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,960
culture references, like Lee J
Cobb calls somebody The Boy in

899
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,160
the Gray Flannel suit.
There was a movie called The Man

900
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,840
in the Gray Flannel Suit, so I
assumed that that tune was

901
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,520
something that people knew.
I don't know if that's what it

902
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,600
is.
So it it could be a falsehood,

903
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,800
Brad, I'm going to just go with
my gut and say that number 3 is

904
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,280
the falsehood, but I have
absolutely no basis for that.

905
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,040
Bob, your gut has steered you in
the correct direction.

906
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,400
That is the falsehood.
Man, that's kind of sad though,

907
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,400
because I he's dead, you know?
Yes, yes, all of them.

908
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,640
I have I.
Have never unknowingly cheered

909
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,560
at someone's death like that
before.

910
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:25,240
I got you.
Yeah, As I was watching the

911
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,160
film, I was looking at facts
about it, and the final juror

912
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,520
actually passed away in 2012.
OK.

913
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,600
And who was that?
Right now I don't remember.

914
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:38,240
What if it was the old man?
What if he?

915
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,440
Lived like 172.
I was going to say, like

916
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaking of Chaplin films, I
remember the when we watched, I

917
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,480
believe it was Gold Rush, the
they had what they think to be

918
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:55,200
the oldest man on film ever in
that movie because there was a

919
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,840
guy in the movie who was born in
like 1837 and the movie came out

920
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,720
in like 1928.
That's crazy.

921
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,560
Yeah.
All right, Brad, let's get into

922
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,240
talking about Henry Fonda a
little bit.

923
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,280
I don't know that there's too
much that needs to be said that

924
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,800
hasn't already been said.
The great thing about Fonda in

925
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,560
this movie and kind of Fonda's
personality overall, he reminds

926
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,200
me of, like, I think I've had
this conversation with you

927
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,160
before, too.
One of my favorite working

928
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:30,440
actors is Matt Damon because
Matt Damon is never showy.

929
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,480
He's just not a showbodie actor.
And you know, I, I'm thinking

930
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,440
about movies that he made, like
he made one, I don't know if

931
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:38,760
you've seen it, Brad.
It's called Air.

932
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,360
It's about like the air, the
creation of the Air Jordan shoe.

933
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,960
And he plays Sonny Vaccaro in
that movie.

934
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,480
He is the most unassuming.
Like for a guy that had a big

935
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,800
personality in real life, Damon
is so good at just taking what

936
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,320
other actors give him and
working with it.

937
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,600
And I don't feel like he gets
recognized enough because he

938
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,320
doesn't give these big Oscar E
performances.

939
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,200
And I think Fonda's the same
way.

940
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,840
Like, yes, he has the biggest
part in this movie, but so much

941
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,360
of this performance is him just
kind of sitting back silently

942
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,760
and watching the world burn
around him and, like, bidding

943
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,720
his time and waiting to jump in
and say what he needs to say.

944
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:20,200
But it never once feels stagey
or like he's trying to hog the

945
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,440
spotlight.
Yeah, I think he has a talent

946
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:29,320
for giving the soft smile when
somebody kind of turns his way

947
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:35,000
and and he does it in such a way
that you feel included, like you

948
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,200
matter.
And I think that's why this

949
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,520
movie stands up so well is
because it's, it's a master

950
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,640
class in like, like, I, I have
to imagine that if somebody

951
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,440
wrote a movie that wanted to
illustrate Carnegie's, you know,

952
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:56,160
how to win friends and influence
people, what movie would better

953
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:00,240
illustrate that than this film?
Like, he has this talent for

954
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:06,640
being charming and yet firm and,
and the way he wins people over

955
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,800
by using their own emotions,
using their own logic, not

956
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,040
against them, but just to
question what they're doing.

957
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,160
I like I just I I think that
Fonda takes what is written on

958
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,080
this on the script, which is
great, and raises it to the next

959
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,240
level.
So the screenplay was written by

960
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,520
Reginald Rose and it was
originally developed as a

961
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,000
teleplay like it was ATV movie
before those were really a

962
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,800
thing.
And then it was developed into a

963
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,560
full length movie.
And I think to go back to the

964
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,120
script again with Reginald Rose,
one of the great things that he

965
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,280
does is he lets people's logic
defeat themselves.

966
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,640
And he doesn't always have to
under score that with people

967
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,200
saying aha or gotcha.
Like there's a great moment, I

968
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,120
don't know, like midway through
the movie, probably when they're

969
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,400
arguing about, you know, whether
the old man could have walked so

970
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,240
far, whatever.
And Lee J Cobb says he was an

971
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:04,000
old man.
How could he be sure about

972
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,920
anything?
And as soon as he says that, you

973
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,360
can see Lee J Cobb go, damn it,
they shouldn't have said that.

974
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,520
Like, I know what I just said.
And everybody behind him just

975
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,840
kind of gives a little smirk
because they all know what he

976
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,440
just did, too.
But no one acknowledges it.

977
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,960
It's just kind of like in a
boxing match and you're kind of

978
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,200
tallying up hits like it who's
landing punches?

979
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,080
Because we all know at the end
of the day, like, we're going to

980
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,440
tally them all up in the the
final summation of things.

981
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,280
But Fonda's performance kind of
demonstrates that better than I

982
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,760
think anybody else's.
He's not always pouncing on

983
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,480
people and he's letting their
own words come back to kind of

984
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,040
cook them at the end of the
movie.

985
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,760
Yeah, and, and he continually
does not commit himself to his

986
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:51,760
position so hard that it would
push anyone away from what he

987
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,840
believes.
Like he's continually

988
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,600
backpedaling.
And, you know, they pointed out

989
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,920
in the film, like when he goes
into the bathroom, I, I don't

990
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:03,920
remember if it's juror number
six or if it's one of the later

991
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,560
ones.
But you know, somebody says to

992
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,520
him, like, have you ever heard
of the Soft Cell?

993
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,320
Because, boy, you're the master
at it.

994
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,440
And and like, it's true.
He has an ability to say, look,

995
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,360
I'm not saying he is 100%
innocent.

996
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,960
I'm just saying there's a shadow
of a doubt, you know, is it, is

997
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,480
it possible that this
alternates, you know, theory

998
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:30,480
could be viable instead of just
what the prosecution gave us?

999
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,080
All right, before we dive into
Lumet, I do just want to take

1000
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,920
one more 2nd and talk about how
good this script is because

1001
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,520
like, the first note that I took
was about the way that the movie

1002
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,640
just kind of logically unfolds.
I don't even know if logically

1003
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,680
is the word, but realistically,
because Fonda does his whole

1004
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,480
thing where he's like, I'm the
only one.

1005
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,240
I think that there I have a
doubt and it's possible.

1006
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,040
And everyone's like, you know,
But then immediately people

1007
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,640
start pointing out little things
that they noticed too.

1008
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:06,480
And after the first couple, you
get people that are starting to

1009
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,080
feel personally offended by it,
like, well, how dare you accuse

1010
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,680
me of this?
And then someone saying I'm not

1011
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,320
accusing you of anything.
And but I love that the way that

1012
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,320
it unfolds is that before anyone
changes their mind, everyone

1013
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,680
gets offended first.
And so there's always, there's

1014
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,320
already like these little riffs.
And I think that's it's such a

1015
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,880
good demonstration of how this
would actually happen in real

1016
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,640
life.
Like no one would just be like,

1017
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,600
oh, you know what, you're right.
I'm going to change my vote.

1018
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:37,160
They they each have to
personally push past their own,

1019
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,840
I don't know, pride, vanity,
thought process.

1020
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,840
And because of all that, like
the the first, I don't know, 20

1021
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,600
minutes of debate between all
these people.

1022
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,240
Is this kind of personal like,
well, I didn't say that.

1023
00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,080
Why are you putting words in my
mouth for?

1024
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,440
And it just makes for.
It's awkward to get through, but

1025
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,320
it's exactly how that would
really happen.

1026
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:02,360
Well, and they also set you up
for like, the social politeness

1027
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,520
factor of like, yeah, there's
these big personalities in the

1028
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,440
room that just want to get this
over with.

1029
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,280
And I don't want to be the guy
that, like, goes against the big

1030
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,680
public voice in the room.
But as soon as they do the blind

1031
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,240
vote, it's fascinating to me
that the old man doesn't change

1032
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,320
his opinion because he thinks
the boy is not guilty.

1033
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,200
He does it because he has
respect for Henry Fonda.

1034
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,800
And I think that even that is
like a fascinating pushed by the

1035
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:35,160
script to say, like, people do
things for reasons that do not

1036
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,440
have any relevance to, to what's
going on in front of them.

1037
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,800
Like people are not always
logical.

1038
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,400
Like they're there to determine
the guilt of this boy.

1039
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,880
And he just voted not guilty
based on nothing about the case

1040
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,440
and 100% on the fact that he's
like, man, this guy's all by

1041
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:52,800
himself.
I think I'm going to vote for

1042
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,080
him because he's he's, you know,
committed.

1043
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,840
Well, and that's like the really
great thing about this too, is I

1044
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,360
don't know that Henry Fonda
really proves the the boy's

1045
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,240
innocence.
And he doesn't have to, right?

1046
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,800
He says at the beginning, like,
that's the burden of the

1047
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,960
prosecution.
And if they didn't prove his

1048
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,760
guilt, then you have to vote not
guilty, right?

1049
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,680
And I think in our very first
episode on this, Brad, I kind of

1050
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,320
said, like, I think if you're
just talking probabilistically,

1051
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:21,440
like it, it does seem like a ton
of coincidences had to add up to

1052
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,080
get this kid off.
And so maybe, maybe the

1053
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,760
probability is that he he did
kill his dad.

1054
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:34,520
But I think it's such a good
example of how I don't know what

1055
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,160
am I trying to say.
I think what you're trying to

1056
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:41,240
say is it's a beautiful example
of social maneuvering.

1057
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,480
And I think that at the end of
the day, if the jury had to

1058
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,600
reveal like the content of their
deliberation, I think that their

1059
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,000
verdict would have gotten thrown
out.

1060
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,960
Like that?
Like what you mean sneaking in a

1061
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:56,840
knife as?
A.

1062
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,040
Counter evidence is not going to
be allowed.

1063
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:01,920
Yeah.
You know, I think that there's a

1064
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,520
lot of conjecture here,
especially from the old man who

1065
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,160
literally like, isn't saying
like, here's some facts and a

1066
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:10,880
reasonable thing based off of
it.

1067
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,800
He's just kind of like this
guy's old and I think he wants

1068
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:18,560
attention and, and everybody's
like, I don't know about that.

1069
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,800
And he's like, Nah, I know about
it.

1070
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,320
And, and everybody's just like,
OK, there's enough that goes on

1071
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:29,640
that I'm like, I once again,
this is an example of a movie

1072
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:34,200
that you're not looking for it
to be a fully accurate

1073
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,160
description of the American
legal system.

1074
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,040
You're looking at it and, and,
and counting it as one of, you

1075
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:45,240
know, the top 20 greatest movies
of all time simply for the fact

1076
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,480
that you get to watch these
people just bounce off of each

1077
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,440
other and run into each other.
And it's something that I've

1078
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,560
said in running events for a
long time in my personal life,

1079
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,800
that anytime you add a person
into the room, right?

1080
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,080
Whether it's, you know, adding a
Co worker into a into an e-mail

1081
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,200
thread to have a conversation
about something.

1082
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,040
Whether it's adding 10 more
people under your guest list for

1083
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,240
your wedding.
Like anytime you add a person

1084
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,960
into the room, you are adding.
Their childhood, their first

1085
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,480
girlfriend that dumped them,
their experience with people of

1086
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,560
a different race, their
experience with religion and

1087
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,800
church.
And you're adding all this

1088
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:32,120
massive ball of, of human
experiences of sadness and joy

1089
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,760
and anger and disappointment and
prejudice and, and all these

1090
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,960
things.
And I don't know if I've ever

1091
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:42,080
seen a movie illustrate that
better than 12 Angry Men.

1092
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,160
Yeah, I mean, if it hadn't been
for each of the people in that

1093
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,640
room like this kids going to the
electric chair, that's just, you

1094
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:53,520
know, if it was 12 ad men like
juror #12, they would have said,

1095
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,960
let's throw it out on the scoop
and see if the cat licks it up.

1096
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,720
And then it would have been, it
would have been done.

1097
01:00:58,280 --> 01:00:59,680
Let's let's throw it the other
direction.

1098
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,640
What if it was 12 angry women?
Is.

1099
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:05,520
Is he going to the electric
chair?

1100
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:06,880
I don't.
Know man, I'm not going to go

1101
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:11,080
there but all right, Brad, real
quick, let's talk about Lumet

1102
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,080
because again this is his first
movie.

1103
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,680
We talked in our our first
episode on this about how this

1104
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,840
movie is famous for how many
different camera setups he has

1105
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,800
and how there's I think there's
like over 100 setups and he

1106
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,320
never returns to a shot once.
He does it once.

1107
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,360
And I think I mean 6 Bob, what
is it?

1108
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,000
356.
That's crazy.

1109
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,680
That's so many shots.
But it works really well to the

1110
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,640
point where there they had such
a low budget for this film that

1111
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,520
there were certain lighting
setups that worked for multiple

1112
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:47,160
of those 356 shots.
And so they would film, you

1113
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:52,560
know, shot #72 of, you know,
early in the film and then shot

1114
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,360
number 85 and then shot number
97.

1115
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:00,240
And so, like, there might be
weeks in between, you know, the

1116
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:04,440
actual next line in the film.
Because when they were actually

1117
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,200
performing it.
Like, that's crazy.

1118
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:08,360
Isn't that that's mind.
Boggling.

1119
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,160
Can you imagine having to keep
track of all that?

1120
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,000
That's what dude, that's what
I'm saying, man.

1121
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:13,320
They didn't have Google
Spreadsheets.

1122
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,000
They couldn't share it with
everybody on the team and be

1123
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,960
like, all right, we're moving,
moving on.

1124
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,640
We need this lighting set up.
One, OK, so two things that I

1125
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,320
noticed AI think the obvious 1
is like the the camera gets much

1126
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:27,960
closer to people as the movie
goes on.

1127
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,280
It gets more much more
claustrophobic because it's

1128
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,800
getting more personal in the
thematic content, right?

1129
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:39,720
Like, you know, Lee J Cobb is
having his own stuff challenged,

1130
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,400
and so the cameras pushing in
closer and closer on his face.

1131
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:46,040
But the thing that I really
noticed this time is that I was

1132
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,760
expecting all these different
shots.

1133
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,320
I wasn't expecting how many
wonders there were in this

1134
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,120
movie.
Like, there's a ton, especially

1135
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,160
in the early going where it's
like extended shots.

1136
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,720
And he's getting 345 shots out
of each of those.

1137
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,240
Yeah, 100%.
There's, he has a talent with

1138
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,440
the camera that I don't think
you see in a lot of first time

1139
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,880
directors.
And granted, he was a television

1140
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,600
director for a long time, like,
like this isn't his first time

1141
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,920
behind a camera.
But man, oh man, the, the camera

1142
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,440
movement in this not, not just
like panning from one side to

1143
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,960
the other, but the, the little
short dollies.

1144
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:25,920
And when, when Henry Fonda is
limping across the floor and it

1145
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,680
follows him down the room.
And even just the blocking of

1146
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,000
the racist juror being like
slowly backed off by Henry

1147
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,840
Fonda's limping is incredible.
But the way the camera stays

1148
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,960
close to his feet and then as he
turns, it slowly pans up as it

1149
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,200
moves backwards into his face,
it's just, it's just incredible.

1150
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:46,680
Bob all.
Right, man.

1151
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,240
I think it's time for us to get
to our final segment of the day,

1152
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,360
which we call let's make it a
double.

1153
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,880
We're near the end of the
episode, so thanks listening to

1154
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,760
the film and Whiskey show.
Let's have another film with

1155
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,200
this one, even if it's
struggling.

1156
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:01,560
It's the final segment of the
day.

1157
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,040
Now let's make it a double.
Let's Make It a Double is the

1158
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:07,040
part of the podcast where we
pick another movie to pair up

1159
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,640
with this one to make the
perfect double feature.

1160
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,000
Brad, I've been thinking about
this a lot.

1161
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,560
And I mean, you could go a lot
of different directions.

1162
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,480
You could go courtroom drama
with it.

1163
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,280
Man, I don't know.
I like, I want to be deep and

1164
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,400
and do a really good pairing,
but I can't get the Lee J Cobb,

1165
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,040
George C Scott thing out of my
head.

1166
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,360
So right now I'm just going to
say pair it with Doctor

1167
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,640
Strangelove and watch two guys
scream for three hours.

1168
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:36,680
What's, what's that movie, Bob?
I didn't recognize the title.

1169
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,560
Oh, that's Doctor Strangelove,
or how I learned to stop

1170
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,760
worrying and love the bomb.
Oh, what a movie.

1171
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:48,200
Man, That's that was a good one.
I'm going to go the opposite

1172
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,280
direction of you in terms of
title length.

1173
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,680
I'm going to go with a one word
title.

1174
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,560
I think that watching this and
then watching Network would be

1175
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:04,080
an incredible evening of cinema.
Lumet and great scripts.

1176
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,160
Yeah, that, that's what I'm
saying, man.

1177
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,720
Like, I was trying to think of
other, like pair it with another

1178
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,960
courtroom drama, you know, To
Kill a Mockingbird would be the

1179
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,840
obvious choice.
But I think that just sitting

1180
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,040
down for, you know, network is
what, 2 1/2 hours?

1181
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:23,000
Maybe not even that long, yeah.
Yeah, and then watching this for

1182
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,840
90 minutes, I think that'd be a
heck of a night, man.

1183
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:32,720
Brad, we have done I think three
1957 movies on this podcast and

1184
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:36,600
they are all bangers now, like
this movie Bridge on the River,

1185
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,360
Kwai and and Paths of Glory.
Yeah.

1186
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,880
So you could just bring it up by
year and do a triple feature and

1187
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,200
that would be awesome.
That would be awesome.

1188
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,040
Another fun fact I gleaned in my
research of the film, this movie

1189
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,600
was nominated for three Oscars
and lost to Bridge on the River

1190
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,360
Kwai for all three of them.
It was just kind of a

1191
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,120
steamroller that year, man.
Yeah, it really was.

1192
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,360
And like, I'll say this, Bridge
on the River Kwai is an

1193
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,720
incredible movie.
I absolutely love it. 12 Angry

1194
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:10,440
Men Is is perfect, Bob.
It is.

1195
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:12,000
Perfect.
And it's, you know, it's hard

1196
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,880
because like, listen, I I'm a
prisoner of the moment sometimes

1197
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,200
and bridge on the river Kwai is
one of those movies that like, I

1198
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:22,120
don't really blame the Oscars
for not rewarding this tiny

1199
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:25,520
movie that flopped and rewarding
Bridge on the River Kwai

1200
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,240
instead.
It's not like that's a bad

1201
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:31,080
movie, but like this, this is a
perfect movie, Brad.

1202
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:35,560
And and I think to tip my final
score here, it is like a 10

1203
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,880
plus.
It's a it's a 10 out of 10 and

1204
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,520
then some because I can't think
of a single thing about this

1205
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,640
movie that I would really
change.

1206
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,720
Do I think every single word
spoken is perfect?

1207
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,920
No, but I don't know that I
would cut a second out of this

1208
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:53,400
movie or add anything else to
it.

1209
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:58,960
Yeah, like there's no such thing
as a perfect movie, Bob, but

1210
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,080
this is a perfect movie.
You know what I mean?

1211
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,120
Like like that.
There's just nothing that I

1212
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,040
think you could change about
this and make it enhanced or

1213
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,600
better.
I think that what happened is

1214
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,520
the best version that we could
have gotten of this film and I

1215
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,120
I'm giving it a 10 out of 10.
All right, so it's a 10 out of

1216
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,520
10 from both of us.
I'm not really surprised, Brad,

1217
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,920
but I think it deserves to be
restated again.

1218
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,400
If you've never seen 12 Angry
Men, you are missing out.

1219
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,880
And it is like 94 minutes long
or something like that.

1220
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,840
It's a quick watch it, it's AI
mean it breezes by.

1221
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,040
I can't recommend it highly
enough.

1222
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,040
But we want to know what you
think of 12 Angry Men.

1223
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,560
So reach out to us on all of our
social medias.

1224
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,600
You can find us on Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok,

1225
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:50,040
YouTube at Film Whiskey.
Or you can join the angry

1226
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,480
conversation over on our
Discord.

1227
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:54,680
You can find a link to our
Discord at the end of every

1228
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,880
single one of our show notes.
Next week we'll be back

1229
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,600
revisiting a Gene Kelly
masterpiece, an American in

1230
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,800
Paris.
From the most angry man to the

1231
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,080
least angry man.
We're we're going to go sing and

1232
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,720
dance in France for a little.
While the old country, if he's

1233
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,800
the old country.
So join us for that one next

1234
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:16,840
week, but until then, I'm Bob
Book.

1235
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,920
I'm Brad Gee.
And we'll see you next time.