The Searchers / Woodford Reserve Kentucky Straight Malt Whiskey

1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,300
In 1950, director, John Ford and
Star.

2
00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:07,200
John Wayne gave the world, an
epic tale of a tenacious War,

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,300
veteran with vengeance.
In his heart.

4
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,500
In 2022, we visit an unexpected
place in search of a great malt.

5
00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:17,900
Whisky, the film is the
Searchers, the whiskey is

6
00:00:17,900 --> 00:00:20,200
Woodford.
Reserve, Kentucky straight malt

7
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,000
whiskey.
And we'll review them both.

8
00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:26,500
This is the film and whiskey
podcast.

9
00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:46,300
Welcome to the film and whiskey
podcast, where each week, we

10
00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:49,100
review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

11
00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:53,500
I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and
this week we are looking at John

12
00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:59,300
Ford's 1956, Masterpiece The
Searchers Brad.

13
00:00:59,300 --> 00:01:02,000
This is a movie that I'm not
going to lie, I don't know that

14
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,099
I've been looking forward to
talking about this movie.

15
00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:09,300
Like it's it's one of the
highest reviewed your highest

16
00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:12,800
rated movies of all time.
When the AFI first did their 100

17
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,000
best films list in 1998, it came
in at 96 and the next time they

18
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,300
did it in 2007.
It was number 12.

19
00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:24,400
So we're talking about a movie
that is very highly revered.

20
00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,000
And we've mentioned it a lot of
times on this podcast before

21
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,000
that people like De Palma and
Spielberg and Scorsese, hold

22
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,000
this movie in super high esteem
and yet it's a really

23
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,700
controversial movie.
It's a movie that a lot of

24
00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:41,200
people are very critical of for
its portrayals of Native

25
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,000
Americans and racism and having
your main character.

26
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,500
Be such a virulent and violent
racist.

27
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:52,100
And there's a lot to Grapple
with in this movie and so I

28
00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:54,500
can't say that.
I was like rubbing my Palms

29
00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:56,200
together.
Like oh boy, oh boy, we get to

30
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,700
watch The Searchers this week.
In your dipalma's together.

31
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:06,100
Hey, that's what people come to
us for right there, that's it,

32
00:02:06,100 --> 00:02:07,100
man.
Bee puns.

33
00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:09,800
All right, everybody will be
back next week.

34
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,800
That's honestly, probably the
best thing we can contribute to

35
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,800
the conversation about the
search awesome.

36
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:22,900
This picture ba-bye, I came into
this movie, just being wildly

37
00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:25,600
excited.
Because I remember watching this

38
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,300
movie when I was young with my
dad and Really enjoying it.

39
00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:33,900
And I didn't always, like,
westerns my view of westerns as

40
00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:37,300
a kid was, like, my dad likes
them and they're often very long

41
00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:41,100
and very boring.
This one, I did not remember

42
00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:42,900
being boring.
I remember really enjoying as a

43
00:02:42,908 --> 00:02:46,700
kid and so I was kind of excited
to come back to it and see

44
00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:48,700
where, you know, where I was at
with it.

45
00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:52,100
Now that I've got a few years of
movie critiquing under my belt,

46
00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,100
there you go.
Yeah, I think this is my third

47
00:02:54,100 --> 00:02:56,500
time seeing the film.
I remember watching it in high

48
00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:58,700
school and just not being
impressed with, At all.

49
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,300
But I also think that I watched
it on like a VHS that I rented

50
00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:05,900
from the library.
So, like, you don't get the

51
00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:08,300
vistas of the John Ford
cinematography.

52
00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:10,800
You don't have to rent from the
library.

53
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,400
Bob, you borrow the free.
They actually charged me.

54
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,400
They were like, no, no, that's
five dollars for you because

55
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,100
racism, because rates at some
man.

56
00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:23,200
Yeah, so I didn't like it.
The first time I saw it.

57
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,000
I went back and try it again.
A few years later.

58
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,100
Because again, like all these
filmmakers that I looked up to,

59
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,800
To said that there was something
there and I just I didn't click

60
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,800
for me and so this was I think
only my third time seeing it and

61
00:03:34,900 --> 00:03:39,300
I got to say man I got a lot
more out of it this time but as

62
00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:41,800
a result of a lot of the
conversations that you and I

63
00:03:41,808 --> 00:03:44,800
have had on prior episodes of
this podcast.

64
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,600
And I think what I'm most
excited for today is to draw

65
00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:51,700
comparisons to other films,
we've seen and bring up points

66
00:03:51,700 --> 00:03:54,300
from conversations.
We've had because they've really

67
00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:56,200
helped me in terms of
processing.

68
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:57,800
What you see on screen here in
this movie.

69
00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:01,500
Yeah, there is so much happening
in this film.

70
00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:05,100
What I really love about it, if
I had to kind of boil it all

71
00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:09,700
down, the characters in this
movie are fascinating and the

72
00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:14,800
cinematography is gorgeous and
that there's just so much to

73
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,800
love in those two veins.
That for me the movie just moved

74
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,000
at a really nice Pace to
illustrate what the story was

75
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,000
trying to tell you, you know,
it's not the fastest.

76
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,900
Paste Western I've ever seen,
but it definitely has a Cadence

77
00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:35,900
to it that gives you the feel
for this, you know, five year

78
00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:38,100
Journey that our main characters
go on.

79
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,400
So that's actually my first
question is it a five-year total

80
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,300
Journey?
Because I remember like the

81
00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:47,300
first time they come home, they
say, oh, you guys have been gone

82
00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:51,200
for two years and then after
that, they go back out, you

83
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,500
know, searching and he writes
her a letter and then they come

84
00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:56,500
back the second time and she
said, you've been gone five

85
00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:59,800
years and only one.
So I didn't know if that meant

86
00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,300
that they were gone for like
seven or eight years total or if

87
00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:06,800
it was just one long chunk of
five years, that's a very good

88
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,000
question.
Bob I'm, you know, just for the

89
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,400
the feel of it I'm going to say
it was like 7 years.

90
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,800
Yeah, let's just say it because
that that makes it feel a little

91
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,200
more epic because you know
spending five years of your life

92
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,800
searching you know the great
vast plains of the West is

93
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,600
absolutely nothing.
That's just, you know, Child's

94
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,700
Play.
I think that you've hit the nail

95
00:05:26,700 --> 00:05:28,100
on the head by using the word
Epic.

96
00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:30,000
Rick.
And that's, you know, this movie

97
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,300
is known for the the Lush
cinematography and the Monument

98
00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:37,000
Valley settings that John Ford
loved to return to.

99
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,900
But this is one of the most
beautiful looking of all

100
00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:42,400
westerns.
And what's really funny to me

101
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,700
Brad will get into talking about
it later is how about half the

102
00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:50,900
movie is like it looks like a
mega Budget on location,

103
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,800
gorgeously rendered movie and
then the other half is like, all

104
00:05:54,808 --> 00:05:58,600
right, we've got a garage and I
need you to like pay The walls

105
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,100
to look like we're outside at a
campsite and then like the other

106
00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:04,800
part of the movies, just like
real rough looking, when it

107
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,200
comes to the sets, but I wanted
to say with the, the Epic nature

108
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,600
of the movie.
This is something that David

109
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,900
lean would go on record saying
he watched this movie over and

110
00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:17,900
over and over again before he
made, Lawrence of Arabia to

111
00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:21,800
learn how to film a landscape
and we've got Lawrence of Arabia

112
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,000
coming up here just in a few
weeks on the podcast.

113
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,800
So I'm really excited to see
again the the points of

114
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,000
connection.
Action that we're going to find

115
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,500
between the Searchers and so
many other films that we've done

116
00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:34,300
before and are doing, you know,
in the coming weeks.

117
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:40,300
Yeah, I mean the movie that is
known for its Vistas got its,

118
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,900
you know, the Searchers was at
stomping grounds.

119
00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:47,200
It will.
So like, there's got to be

120
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,400
something that you're looking
for when it comes to the

121
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,400
Searchers.
And I, yeah, I guess my hope is

122
00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,500
that people don't let the the
conversation around the

123
00:06:56,508 --> 00:06:59,900
Searchers steer them away.
From the movie because I think

124
00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:04,200
it's a really worthwhile movie
that a is just a beautiful film

125
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:09,400
and be I think it probably adds
to the conversation on how

126
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,500
racism is depicted in films.
Mmm, and like, what is taboo and

127
00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:17,700
what is actually like helpful to
the conversation?

128
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,800
And I will get into that later,
but I think this movie is, is

129
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,600
successful on a lot of fronts.
Bob, totally agree.

130
00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:27,700
All right, man, let's go ahead
and jump into Brad explains

131
00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:29,800
this.
Is the part of the podcast where

132
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,200
Brad breaks down the plot of the
movie that he has just seen

133
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:36,500
often for the first time.
And again, remind me this, this

134
00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:38,400
is not your first time seeing
it, right?

135
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,300
No, I saw when I was young, so
this is my second time seeing

136
00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:44,500
it, all right?
You've got 60 seconds on the

137
00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:46,600
clock.
Can you break down the plot of

138
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,700
The Searchers?
Yeah.

139
00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:53,200
Ethan Edwards is a Civil War
veteran of the Confederate side

140
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,900
of the war.
He returns home to Texas, he Is

141
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,700
unmarried.
So he goes back to his brothers

142
00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:04,400
Homestead.
His the whole family is really

143
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,500
excited to see him.
They go out to search for some

144
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,300
Native Americans who have been
stealing cattle, killing cattle

145
00:08:13,300 --> 00:08:16,000
at a neighbor's Ranch.
And it turns out that they were

146
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,800
doing that, just to distract the
men so that they could go raid,

147
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,400
the actual Homestead.
His brothers family is mostly

148
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,800
all killed and his two nieces
are taken by The Native American

149
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,500
tribe, the Comanches, the and
the rest of the movie is he and

150
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,900
man who was adopted by his
brothers family, as they search

151
00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:39,600
for the two girls who were
taken.

152
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,700
Eventually they find out that
one of them has been killed and

153
00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:45,700
they keep searching until
they're able to rescue their

154
00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:48,700
nice.
And that's pretty much it I

155
00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:51,400
think.
Yeah, I mean you know, we left

156
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,900
out that John Wayne's character
is just the worst.

157
00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:59,000
Human being of all time, is it?
I mean, He's saying I'm sorry

158
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,400
think of he's having some other
bad human beings I would say

159
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,300
he's up there for sure but it
does the right thing in the end.

160
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:11,100
Yeah, well I don't know how long
I'm gonna be able to go today

161
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,000
without going really deep on
this movie because I think the

162
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,500
only way this movie works is
when you look at it through

163
00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:24,100
certain prisms of interpretation
and and you understand that what

164
00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:26,700
they're doing with the John
Wayne character does not mean

165
00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:29,400
that they are endorsing.
What the John Wayne character is

166
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,600
doing but you also try to get
inside the mind of the John

167
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,500
Wayne character and figure out
like what's driving Ethan aside

168
00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:39,900
from just hatred and racism like
what's what's the root cause of

169
00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:41,800
all this.
And I think it takes you in some

170
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,000
really interesting places.
But again, like this is the kind

171
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,800
of thing.
We would normally discuss on the

172
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,700
back part of the episode.
And now we just have to kind of

173
00:09:49,708 --> 00:09:53,700
talk about like who gave a good
performance but it's just it's

174
00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,500
really hard to talk about this
movie without just immediately

175
00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:59,400
jumping into.
Psychoanalyze this main

176
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,800
character.
Yeah, I mean, when you jump into

177
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:09,100
the character of Ethan Edwards,
he might be one of the most, one

178
00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:13,100
of the more nuanced characters
we've ever looked at, especially

179
00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:16,500
in a western.
Mmm, westerns are kind of known

180
00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:19,800
for.
I mean, if I'm being honest

181
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,600
there, the Ridiculousness of the
characters.

182
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,900
Like I think about the movie
McLintock.

183
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,400
Sorry, McClintock, I'm gonna
talk forgot the exclamation

184
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:36,500
point and like John Wayne's
character in that is, you know,

185
00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:40,400
a little over-the-top as is
every other person in that

186
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,400
movie.
I mean, he has, he has Marine

187
00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,200
O'Hara over his knee and he's
spanking her right?

188
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,500
And like other people are
laughing at them, and it's just

189
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,600
a ridiculous movie.
And I think a lot of westerns

190
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,300
can kind of fall into that vein,
even some the Clint Eastwood

191
00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:00,300
stuff.
This one is not that Bob.

192
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,300
No, it's not.
And I think this is a good place

193
00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:05,700
to kind of talk about.
You know, let's at least start

194
00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:09,300
talking about the characters
racism and motivations because

195
00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:13,100
you know, John Wayne is has not
aged.

196
00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:14,700
Well, let's just say it like
that.

197
00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:18,500
Like just check the Mythos of
John Wayne is not aged well into

198
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:23,000
2022.
And his off screen Persona, I

199
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,500
think often gets conflated with
his on-screen persona, but every

200
00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:34,100
once in a while, John Ford would
do some sort of little what's

201
00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:38,300
the word subversive thing with
with John Wayne and get him to

202
00:11:38,308 --> 00:11:40,600
play a character that went
against type and not just went

203
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,700
against tight but like actively
interrogated, the things that

204
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:48,200
the John, Wayne type is known
for doing and that's kind of

205
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,200
what you get here and I always
found it funny that people look

206
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,300
at Ethan Edwards in this movie
and how he's a complicated

207
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,100
character who is objectively, a
horrible.

208
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,300
A person.
And they they try to question.

209
00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:04,000
John Ford, for being like, why
would you make this the hero of

210
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000
the movie?
Why would you make us root for

211
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,000
this person?
When I think the whole point of

212
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,400
the movie is to ask that
difficult question and it's a

213
00:12:12,408 --> 00:12:17,700
lot more problematic when he's
just doing casually racist

214
00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,200
things in the movies.
Like, McClintock.

215
00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:22,200
That never go, examined.
Do you know what I mean?

216
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,300
Like, that movie is just super
misogynistic and probably

217
00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:27,800
racist.
But like, yes, but because it's

218
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,100
not, Explicitly.
So or it's not like dealing with

219
00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:34,100
themes of racism, it's almost
like we don't even talk about

220
00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:37,900
that but I find those to be the
more problematic roles than this

221
00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:41,400
one.
Yeah, this one the way his

222
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,300
racism is portrayed.
I think that you have Jeffrey

223
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:49,600
Hunter who plays Martin pawley
who, you know, is the second

224
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:55,500
lead in this the way those two
interact really gives you kind

225
00:12:55,500 --> 00:13:01,000
of like, I don't know, the the
the yin and yang of this movie

226
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:05,500
that, you know, John Wayne's
character really represents

227
00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:11,600
chaos and darkness and evil in a
lot of ways and and Martin

228
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,700
pawley represents like the
pure-hearted search and

229
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:20,500
preservation of an innocent
Soul.

230
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,200
Yeah.
Like I think that I think that

231
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,000
the way those two characters are
written, I don't like honestly I

232
00:13:27,008 --> 00:13:29,700
don't understand why people.
I would hate on Ethan Edwards so

233
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:33,300
much because they love
anti-heroes nowadays, right?

234
00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:36,500
Like all the like all the
Batman's have to be these dark

235
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:42,000
brooding almost evil Heroes and
and if we love that like this is

236
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,100
just a really early version of
an antihero.

237
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,000
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I
would go that far.

238
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,200
I think he's still.
I think it's of just a

239
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,900
complicated character and you
could call him the protagonist

240
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:53,900
because he's like the main
character of the movie.

241
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:58,200
He's definitely not a hero and I
don't understand, I think It's

242
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,000
too simplistic to read this
movie in that way.

243
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,800
That to suggest that John Ford
didn't know what he was doing

244
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,200
here.
And in fact, like all

245
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,400
indications show that John Ford
actually like made the character

246
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,400
significantly darker than what
was actually in the script and

247
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,700
had him doing more explicitly
racist things.

248
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:21,100
So that it was so obvious to the
audience, what kind of person he

249
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:24,800
was and to take a step back
from, you know, dissecting this

250
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,300
character I think at the end of
the day this is probably John

251
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:29,800
Wayne's best.
And he doesn't win an Oscar for

252
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,600
this movie.
He doesn't win until True Grit

253
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,800
in 1969 which is again a more
conventional John Wayne type

254
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,500
performance.
And I think because you have him

255
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,500
playing against type here
because Ford is drawing out this

256
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:45,700
kind of character that
interrogates, the idea of the

257
00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:50,200
white man in the west and this
sense of the Comanches are

258
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,400
corrupting.
Our white Heritage is such an

259
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,600
interesting character and Wayne
actually, I think does a great

260
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,000
job in this movie in the first
Few scenes, he's playing John

261
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,200
Wayne and I'm like, oh God.
It's going to be another one of

262
00:15:02,208 --> 00:15:04,900
these movies, isn't it?
And as the movie goes on, you

263
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:08,100
know, Ford uses these incredible
close-ups.

264
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,400
And every time he does a close
up on John Wayne's face, I've

265
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,400
never seen it looking so
Haggard, and tired, and rundown,

266
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,900
and sad, and it's not the
heroic, kind of cocky, you know,

267
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:25,300
Swagger of a normal John Wayne
performance.

268
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:28,400
This is a very different type of
man, and I think Wayne She does

269
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,000
a really good job portraying
that.

270
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,700
Yeah and and once again I think
it's really the performance of

271
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:37,500
Martin pawley that are of
Jeffrey Hunter as Martin pawley.

272
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:43,500
That kind of draws out those
nuances in his in his character

273
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:50,200
that it is Polly.
Who provides someone for Ethan

274
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,100
to bounce off of, who is a
conscience to show?

275
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:57,900
How deep and how far gone Ethan,
Edwards is yep.

276
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,900
And hopefully, you know, at the
end of the movie, when he

277
00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:05,200
doesn't kill his knees.
It's hopefully, because he's

278
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,000
been watching, you know,
Martin's dedication to the cause

279
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,300
of saving her.
That has also redeemed, Ethan's

280
00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:14,800
heart as well.
All right, let's talk about

281
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,300
Jeffrey Hunter a little bit and
I guess I'll just start by

282
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:23,300
saying, I think that John Wayne
out acts everyone in this movie

283
00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:25,100
by a lot.
Yeah.

284
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,400
And when John Wayne is your best
actor by a lot Um, do you know

285
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,300
what I mean?
Like I think the simplest way to

286
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:38,400
say it is that everyone else in
this movie is acting as if they

287
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,200
are in a western that was filmed
in 1956.

288
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,800
Like there's a certain type of
acting that you see in westerns,

289
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,500
I don't know how to explain it.
I guess you could call it over

290
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:52,100
acting but it never gives the
sense of oh this is probably

291
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:53,800
what it was like on the
frontier.

292
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,100
It's just know.
These people are in a western

293
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,900
and it's the same kind of
acting.

294
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:00,400
In whether it's in a John Ford
movie, or whether it's an

295
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,500
episode of Gunsmoke on TV, they
all act the same and Jeffrey

296
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:07,500
Hunter and Vera Miles and
everybody else in this movie

297
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:11,500
acts in that way.
And the only person who's doing

298
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:13,800
anything remotely different from
that is John Wayne.

299
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,900
And I think honestly like maybe
that was even intentional by

300
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:20,099
John Ford as another way of
demonstrating that this person

301
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,800
Ethan is so far out of the norm
of what you would see, in a

302
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,000
movie like this, and also to
demonstrate, he doesn't belong

303
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,100
here and that's kind of Like the
last image of the movie is like,

304
00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:34,900
he doesn't, this, this person is
doomed, to never have a home and

305
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:38,100
to be forced to wander and
suffer the consequences of like

306
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,800
what he's done in life and I
kind of wonder if the way that

307
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:47,000
the other actors are acting kind
of helps tip that off a little

308
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,400
bit because Ethan acts so
differently than everyone else.

309
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:57,400
Yeah, he like just has this
burdened look to him and and he

310
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:04,700
just Feels weary and like, when
I think about the life of a of a

311
00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:11,000
Rancher Cowboy, you know, Civil
War veteran in the mid and the

312
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,500
late 1800s, I think of Ethan
Edwards.

313
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,800
I don't think of somebody like
anybody else I've ever seen in a

314
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,700
western because, like you said,
there's, there's a specific type

315
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:27,900
of acting that was going on in
westerns and the janja's comes

316
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:29,900
in That.
And he blows it up.

317
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:33,800
Yeah.
Like he just absolutely takes it

318
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,700
to another level.
And like you said, I feel like

319
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:40,900
when I'm watching Ethan Edwards,
I'm watching somebody who was

320
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:47,200
alive in that time period and
has has lived in the dust of the

321
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,900
desert for decades.
It almost seems like it would

322
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:54,100
belong more at home in the kind
of spaghetti westerns that you

323
00:18:54,108 --> 00:18:56,400
would see a decade later.
And that's not to say that those

324
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:57,900
movies are not over-the-top
either.

325
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,300
But when I think about the good,
the bad, the ugly, and the

326
00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:04,100
moments in that movie, where
Clint Eastwood goes and visits

327
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:07,300
the home of, you know, a farmer
and his wife or whatever and how

328
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:09,700
they just look.
So beaten down by life and they

329
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:12,800
act so much more, you know,
naturalistic I guess.

330
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,900
And it also seems to be like one
of the few Hollywood

331
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:20,600
performances that allows the
main character to get that sort

332
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,600
of haggard look about him,
similar to what we saw with,

333
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,100
with Bogart in Treasure of the
Sierra Madre.

334
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,000
I think that's another good
example of something.

335
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:30,800
Like this.
But I said all that to say

336
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:38,200
Jeffrey Hunter not a great actor
and also like, it's so obvious

337
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,200
when it's put up against what
John Wayne is doing here.

338
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,000
Yeah, I think that I almost
didn't even notice it because I

339
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,200
knew I was watching a western.
Hmm.

340
00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:52,200
And like growing up watching
enough westerns you just you

341
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,200
know what to expect and you're
almost okay with it.

342
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,300
Like I don't know.
It's like when you watch a

343
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:02,600
cartoon versus watching Game of
Thrones like, there's certain

344
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,600
tropes that are going to happen
in a cartoon that don't happen

345
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,800
in a TV show, like, Game of
Thrones, they're both television

346
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,500
shows but you know, you're okay
with one thing because you've

347
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:15,700
grown up watching them and I
think that's kind of how I feel

348
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:17,000
about Jeffrey Hunter in this
movie.

349
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,400
I'm like oh yeah he's great man.
He's, he's just kind of a whiny

350
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,300
young guy who was trying to do
his best in the world and he

351
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:28,400
knows that he's in a western
movie and same thing with Vera

352
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,800
Miles.
Yeah.

353
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,400
I mean, before we get to Vera
Miles, the Jeffrey Hunter thing

354
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,700
for me is very much like
watching Mark, Hamill in the

355
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:39,400
first Star Wars, where he's like
him.

356
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,300
I was gonna go get some power
converters, like the think, just

357
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,500
the whole movie and I'm just
like, oh, that's Jeffrey Hunter.

358
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:47,600
He's just doing that with for
the whole new.

359
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,500
You want to start the Star Wars
fight from season 1 again like

360
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:54,800
we can get into it man.
We don't need to talk about the

361
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,700
surgeries that he might even
saying that like and again, I

362
00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:59,000
did.
I did kind of think, Mark,

363
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,700
Hamill was not great in the
first Star Wars movie, but it's

364
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:05,600
more just that like, the whiny
little boy, Act only goes so far

365
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,800
and in Star Wars after, you
know, in like the second and

366
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,500
third act like, all right, we're
done with that.

367
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:12,900
Now, in this movie, you know,
it's like five to seven years

368
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:15,600
later and now he's like a grown
man, and he's still doing that

369
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,500
whole thing.
And I just liked by the two-hour

370
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,200
Mark, I was, I was done with
Martin pawley.

371
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,000
I will say.
All right, so you mentioned Vera

372
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,200
Miles.
Vera Miles is a good actress.

373
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,500
This is at least the second
movie that we've had her on the

374
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:30,200
podcast.
Probably her.

375
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,900
Most famous role is in Psycho
where she plays, mmm, Janet

376
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,000
Leigh's, sister.
Alfred Hitchcock was obsessed

377
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,400
with Vera Miles.
He wanted to make her, like the

378
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,500
next big thing.
I think she was supposed to be

379
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:45,000
the lead in Vertigo and then she
got pregnant and so he couldn't

380
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,900
use her in Vertigo is either
vertigo or North by Northwest

381
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:51,200
and and then she never really
took off after that.

382
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,200
And she She, you know, the rumor
has always been that.

383
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,900
Like once she got pregnant, like
Hitchcock wasn't interested in

384
00:21:55,900 --> 00:22:00,200
her anymore and just like yeah,
you know, you know, the creepy

385
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,400
old man being a creepy old man.
I think she's fine here.

386
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,000
But once again, she's doing the
like I don't know if they're

387
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,300
just like directing these two
people as if to say like you are

388
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:17,400
16 years old, when they're both
clearly late 20s or older, but

389
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,400
they're acting like 15 year,
olds the whole movie.

390
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,500
And I think that really just got
super Eating and got on my

391
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:27,700
nerves after a while, huh.
Yeah, once again, I guess a I

392
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:31,400
was kind of wrapped up in John
Wayne's performance and be.

393
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,000
It, it just didn't strike me as
any different than any other

394
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,500
Western I'd seen.
Hmm.

395
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:41,500
So it felt like it just fit what
the movie was going for as far

396
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:45,700
as as their romance would go.
So yeah, I wasn't really

397
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:49,500
bothered by her performance.
I thought that she was

398
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:54,000
appropriately.
Ridiculously funny, as I would

399
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,100
expect her to be in a western
sure.

400
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,000
Now, on the other hand, if
there's somebody in this movie

401
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,000
that comes in and just matches,
John Wayne, like, tit-for-tat,

402
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:10,000
in this movie, it's Ward Bond.
Who is a, John Ford regular and

403
00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:15,000
a super unsung underrated actor.
I mean, he's been in so many

404
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,200
movies, like he popped up in a
bit part in Gone With the Wind,

405
00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:23,900
he was Burt in, He wasn't Burt,
he's in It's a Wonderful Life.

406
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:25,600
He drives the cap and It's a
Wonderful Life.

407
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,800
Yeah, and births.
The cop Bert's the cop.

408
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:30,500
Okay.
And Ernie is the cab driver,

409
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,800
right?
That's where they got Bert and

410
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,500
Ernie from for Sesame Street,
yes, okay, maybe he is Bert, I

411
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,900
don't know whatever, he's in,
It's a Wonderful Life.

412
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:43,200
He's at his best in this movie,
he is so good in this movie in a

413
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,800
very thankless role in a role
that really doesn't contribute

414
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,200
to much to the the main Central
plot of the movie.

415
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,900
Except that.
That he's a much smarter person

416
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:57,000
than John Wayne gives him credit
for playing this, you know, this

417
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,100
dual Texas Ranger who is also a
pastor and I think Brad that I

418
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:04,600
want to draw attention to one
scene in the movie because it's

419
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,500
going to become really Central
to my analysis on the movie

420
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:10,600
later.
And it's the scene at the very

421
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,900
beginning where he comes to
visit and he happens to look

422
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,600
into another room in the
homestead and John Wayne's.

423
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,900
Brother's wife is in this other
room, like holding a piece of

424
00:24:25,908 --> 00:24:29,400
his clothing or something and
just cradling it and like

425
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,700
caressing it.
And you can tell that he's not

426
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:34,800
eavesdropping, but he seemed
something that he isn't supposed

427
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,500
to be seeing and he just kind of
very silently processes.

428
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,000
This information that he's
seeing and he sees Ethan come in

429
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,200
the room after him and he
doesn't make eye contact with

430
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,900
either one of them but you know,
Ethan gives her a kiss on the

431
00:24:45,908 --> 00:24:49,300
forehead and it's very obvious
that Ethan's in love with his

432
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,600
brother's wife and she is in
love with him.

433
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,700
And it's never touched on again,
for the rest of the movie.

434
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:58,600
But I actually think that scene
is like the driving force behind

435
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,700
this whole film, and it only
really works because of how good

436
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:08,500
Ward Bond is in that scene.
Yeah, he just has this silent

437
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:13,700
intensity and intelligence to
the way he watches, what's

438
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:18,300
unfolding in front of him, where
it all clicks into place for him

439
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:22,900
and because of that, it clicks
into place for the Z because I

440
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:26,100
don't think that there's enough
in the other scenes to pick up

441
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,600
on these.
You know, the wife's love for

442
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,900
Ethan and and you know his love
for her and yet that little

443
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:39,200
scene like you said it provides
the main thrust for why he would

444
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,700
be willing to search for her and
I believe it at some point, man,

445
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:46,900
I'm trying to remember if it's
him or somebody else.

446
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:49,900
I think he goes it's not what
Martha would have wanted.

447
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:53,300
Yeah, when he's talking about
Debbie being, you know, a

448
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:55,300
Comanche Indian essentially,
right?

449
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,800
And so that's like his
justification for why he would

450
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,600
kill her and it like, that's
kind of the only call back to

451
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,200
it.
But it's such a powerful move to

452
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,600
move from the first part of the
movie of like, oh, like they're

453
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,700
in love with each other and they
can't be together.

454
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,400
Once again, establishing the
John Wayne cannot live in this

455
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,800
world forever to the end of the
movie.

456
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,000
Where it's like, this is my
reason for killing my niece,

457
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,900
which is a brutal.
Dark sentiment have in a

458
00:26:23,908 --> 00:26:25,700
western, you know, just a little
bit.

459
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,900
All right, before we go to break
Brad, is there anybody else that

460
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:30,200
you want to touch on in the
cast?

461
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,400
I mean, obviously, we know we've
got Natalie Wood, who has been

462
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,000
on the show a few times and it
just happens to find herself in

463
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,500
some of the best movies ever
made.

464
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Like she's Debbie in this movie
for four minutes and just like,

465
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,200
all right, check that off the,
you know, off the list and here

466
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,400
in one of the greatest movies of
all time, she doesn't really

467
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,300
contribute anything.
But our boy John qualen.

468
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,000
From Grapes of Wrath shows back
up in that van.

469
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,900
He's back not as good this time.
No, not quite as good.

470
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,300
He's doing a voice that I would
describe as Swedish Geppetto

471
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:05,700
like he kind of sounds like.
Well, my peanut oil Kyoto, but

472
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:08,900
he's doing it with a Swedish
accent, 100%.

473
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:12,400
So you know, it feels like he
was going, I don't know.

474
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,300
I guess you're against any was
going for Swedish.

475
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,300
I it sounded to me like he was
trying for Italian almost yeah,

476
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:18,800
that's what I'm saying.
Like it went back and forth

477
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,900
between Norway and Italy.
It wasn't great.

478
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:25,500
I don't care.
I like seeing him.

479
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,700
It was great to see him.
My favorite character in the

480
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:33,500
movie, by by a country mile.
Oh, good expression.

481
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,300
Charlie maccorry.
Oh yeah.

482
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:41,700
Played by Ken Ken Curtis and
Curtis, they like are trying to

483
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:47,100
sell, he's just the worst match
for Veer miles that you could

484
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:49,000
ever imagine.
And then they were like, you

485
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,400
know, we need to give him
something.

486
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,900
And so he starts playing on his
guitar and singing, I think Skip

487
00:27:55,900 --> 00:28:01,400
to My Lou and he has like a
phenomenal voice but that he

488
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,500
starts talking again.
And like, if you haven't seen

489
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,300
the movie, I'm genuinely not
exaggerating when I say it.

490
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:14,400
Just gotta sound like this and
he goes Lori, I love you so

491
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,700
much.
It's just not a voice that a

492
00:28:17,708 --> 00:28:20,500
real human would have liked at
all.

493
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,900
But then he It's singing.
And he's got this beautiful like

494
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:28,700
country little to his voice and
you're like, oh he's he's 100%

495
00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:34,600
just putting this on, it's
ridiculous that I I'm here for

496
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,100
it 100%.
The funny thing is, he has the

497
00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:42,100
jawline and that sort of like,
really chiseled Look to Him and

498
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:46,200
the same almost the same teeth
as John Carradine who we've been

499
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:48,300
talking about with other Ford
movies.

500
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:50,300
And I was like that, that's not
John Carradine.

501
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:52,500
It'd be so much older by the The
time, we got to this movie.

502
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,700
Who is that guy?
You know, and it's obviously no

503
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:59,000
relation but it's so funny
because we had just talked about

504
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,500
the Carradine's in last week's
episode and then Ken Curtis

505
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:04,900
comes in here and like messed
with my mind for a little bit

506
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,200
because he looks like he could
be related to them.

507
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,600
And that's what I think.
I love about this movie is that,

508
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:16,100
while it is this kind of dark
portrait of a man trying to

509
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:21,300
reckon with who he is.
It's also just this really kind

510
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:27,000
of Light-hearted tale about a
young man trying to balance out

511
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,600
Duty versus love.
And the shenanigans that he gets

512
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,200
into, you know, Finding himself
with a Native American Wife.

513
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,000
And, you know, fighting the most
ridiculous person ever and

514
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,100
Charlie maccorry.
And it, it's just light-hearted

515
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:45,800
in the right moments and
serious.

516
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,900
And most of the film that I, I
just like, what Ford was able to

517
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:54,000
do with this, Movie.
That's really interesting to me.

518
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,500
I'm looking forward to our
conversation in the second half

519
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:59,300
of the episode because I have a
feeling that the things you

520
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:02,400
really liked about this movie
and that helped sell it to you

521
00:30:02,900 --> 00:30:05,000
are probably going to be my
least favorite parts of this

522
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,400
movie.
And yet, it sounds like we

523
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,900
actually might come out in a
similar place when we give our

524
00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:12,500
final scores here.
So I think we're in for a good

525
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:14,600
conversation here, Brad.
Let's hit pause.

526
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,500
Now, let's try this Woodford.
Reserve, malt, whiskey, what do

527
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:19,400
you say?
Let's get to it.

528
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,700
Alright, so today we are
checking out Woodford.

529
00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:32,100
Reserve malt, whisky Kentucky,
straight malt whiskey Brad.

530
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:35,300
This is a very interesting
whiskey from Woodford, because

531
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,900
it's not a single malt.
Like it is not made completely

532
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:44,200
from malt, it's only 51% malted
barley in the mash bill so it is

533
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,100
just barely enough malt to be
called a malt. 51% malted barley

534
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:53,800
7%, corn, 2% Rye.
So this is very close to being a

535
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,600
bourbon.
If we're talking percentages

536
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,800
here, like all of their releases
or most of them, at least, it

537
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,700
clocks in, at 90.4, proof it is
not age stated, but it is listed

538
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:06,100
as a Kentucky, straight malt.
So, I'm assuming everything in

539
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:09,800
here is at least two years old,
probably older than that, Brad.

540
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,300
The reason we're pairing this up
today is because we have talked

541
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:14,200
with the master distiller of
Woodford.

542
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,200
Chris Morris on many occasions.
And very recently, we just saw

543
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,800
him at the Kentucky bourbon.
Evil and we talked about how his

544
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,300
favorite movie is the Searchers.
So we said, you know, in honor

545
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:27,600
of Chris Morris, let's have some
Woodford.

546
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,000
And this is the next one.
In their lineup that we have not

547
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,100
yet.
Tried, I'm excited to get into

548
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:33,400
this malt.
Yeah.

549
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,600
I was in saying, this is a part
of their Series where they try

550
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,800
to honor each of the original
grains that we used here in

551
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,000
America to make whiskey.
And I've got to say man, this is

552
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,300
a beautiful smelling whiskey.
I was really Blown Away with the

553
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:52,500
notion Those.
So I'm starting to realize that

554
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,100
the note of like young grain
that I associate with like, a

555
00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:01,400
really young bourbon smells a
lot like malt because this

556
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,400
smells like a really young
whiskey to me and I don't know

557
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,800
that it necessarily is I mean
it's possible that all this is

558
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,200
just you know two years and a
day old who knows, but I think

559
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,800
I'm just picking up a lot of the
maltiness but because there's so

560
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,000
much corn in the mash bill, this
just kind of presents to me as a

561
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,900
really, really young.
And I can't quite shake that and

562
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:24,600
I think it's because we've never
had a malted whiskey where it's

563
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,000
like almost equivalent Malta
corn ratio.

564
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,900
So that's really screwing with
my pet, like, not my palate but

565
00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:33,800
my nosing here is this?
Just smells like a really young

566
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,100
bourbon to me.
See, I didn't feel like it was a

567
00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:41,300
young bourbon at all II.
Got a lot of peanuts and caramel

568
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:44,900
on the nose, there was some
cherry cordial and then it was

569
00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:48,900
almost like a little bit creamy.
Almost like a whipping cream and

570
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,200
I I thought it was like really
decadent the only part of it.

571
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,300
It wasn't very it even kind of
smelled a little thin like like

572
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:01,900
you can kind of tell when a
whiskey is going to have some

573
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:08,000
legs and this didn't have that
but honestly I sat with this

574
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,300
just smelling it for about 10
minutes and I couldn't stop

575
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:16,700
getting all sorts of like creamy
Cherry nutty notes and I really

576
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:18,600
liked it.
I I'm going to give the nose a 9

577
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,200
out of 10 Wow.
All right I'm definitely not

578
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,100
there.
I am picking up some of the

579
00:33:23,108 --> 00:33:25,800
peanuts that you're talking
about and for me it almost

580
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,100
tastes like when you crack open
a fresh canister of Oats, not

581
00:33:30,100 --> 00:33:32,900
like oatmeal but just like steel
cut oats or something.

582
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:37,800
Like there's this, this very
kind of freshly cut grain to

583
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,200
this and I think again, I'm
trying to distinguish it from

584
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,800
being a young bourbon because
that's not what this is.

585
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,200
But it's definitely grain
forward.

586
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,500
I think I'm I am.
What's the word?

587
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,300
Word cautiously optimistic.
But I'm just going to give it a

588
00:33:52,308 --> 00:33:54,300
six and a half on the nose.
Well, in the.

589
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:58,800
And then we got into the taste
and Bob, I will say it was

590
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,900
pretty disappointing when I got
into it.

591
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:08,699
The first note that I wrote down
was thin, it is like I don't

592
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:11,900
know if I've ever had a Woodford
product, that promised so much

593
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:16,199
and then came across so thin and
I was really struggling to get a

594
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,900
lot of notes on it.
I think I got kind of a cocoa

595
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:21,400
and pepper.
Flavors going on.

596
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,600
Yeah.
But not a ton outside of that.

597
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,199
I was struggling with the
palette.

598
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:30,600
I'll give it a six out of ten.
Yeah, I'm with you it's thin.

599
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,400
I thought it did.
It had a lot of flavor

600
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,900
concentrated into it.
The problem is that there's just

601
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:41,000
not many flavors going on.
And so for me, it's just kind of

602
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,000
like Oak all the way through and
Woodford, is for me, at least

603
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:46,800
very Oak forward.
In general.

604
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,300
Like, their bourbon zoki, their
double oaked is obviously very

605
00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:51,500
very Aoki.
This just kind of tastes like

606
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:56,500
Barrel to me and behind that.
There's, there's black pepper,

607
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,100
you're right about that.
And then there was just like

608
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:02,000
this little wisp on the back of
my palate, which I've never

609
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,100
gotten on a whiskey before of
celery or like a coriander.

610
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,300
Like there's just something I
like it.

611
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,800
Just tasted like I snapped into
a fresh stalk of celery.

612
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,200
It was really interesting.
It almost gave it kind of like a

613
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,500
like that vegetal note we get on
Rise sometimes and Like that.

614
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:22,800
But there's very little
sweetness here for me.

615
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,100
There's not a lot of complexity.
Again, I don't mind it but I

616
00:35:27,107 --> 00:35:29,200
just don't think it's great.
I'm going to give it a six and a

617
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,500
half on the palate.
Yeah.

618
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:34,600
And I think the Finish is about
where the the palette was for

619
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,000
me, it became very malty, very
Oaky, some of that pepper kind

620
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,200
of stuck through to the end, it
had a little bit of a Kentucky

621
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,600
hug to finish things off, but
nothing amazing.

622
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,500
I think I'll stick it. 6 out of
10 for the Finish.

623
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,700
Oh yeah, I think for me the
Finish is probably the high

624
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:54,800
point of this.
I just took a second Sip and the

625
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,000
cocoa is really coming through
on the second sip.

626
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,000
I like that a lot and its
present on the Finish.

627
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,100
There's not a ton of Oak left on
my pallet their way, the way

628
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:06,700
that it was when I first took a
sip and so I think the Finish is

629
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,400
nice and mouth-watering.
It's not an especially hot

630
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:10,900
whiskey.
Like I'm not feeling it going

631
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:14,500
down but that gets back to your
note of it being thin earlier.

632
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:17,800
I still think the Finish is
probably the best thing here.

633
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,000
I'm going to give it a An 8 out
of 10 on finish.

634
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:24,200
Yeah.
And then on balance I'll give it

635
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,400
a six and a half on balance.
I think it's disappointing off

636
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,000
the nose that I really enjoyed.
But overall I think once you get

637
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,900
into what you're getting into
with this whiskey you kind of

638
00:36:35,908 --> 00:36:40,700
know what's happening and it
gives you what you expect from

639
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:43,400
the palette on.
So yeah, I'll give it a six and

640
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,400
a half on the balance.
I'm gonna give it a seven.

641
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:48,900
I think this is a pretty good
whiskey, it just kind of drinks.

642
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:53,400
Like it's 80 proof or 85 proof
rather than 90 proof.

643
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:56,800
And with you on that like
there's is just a very thin kind

644
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,700
of watery experience.
I guess I just don't know Brad

645
00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:05,400
like Who's this for?
Hmm you know what I mean?

646
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,700
And I yeah like this is going to
sound like one of the most

647
00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:10,300
critical things I've ever said
about a whiskey and I don't mean

648
00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:13,100
it that way because listeners to
this podcast.

649
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:17,900
Know I love Woodford Reserve but
like there's really good

650
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:21,100
American single malts out there.
There's really good blended

651
00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:23,800
Scotch out there there's really
good single malt scotch out

652
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,400
there that I would recommend to
beginners in the world of malted

653
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,300
whiskies and I just don't know.
Like is this supposed to be a

654
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:33,200
game?
Gateway into drinking malt is

655
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,200
this just like hey this was a
fun thing for us to make, so

656
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,400
we're going to keep putting it
out.

657
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,600
I don't really know who I'm
supposed to be recommending this

658
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,500
to yeah, I'm with you man.
And I think that kind of takes

659
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,800
us into our value category.
You know, this is this is priced

660
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,400
with all of their Baseline
offerings.

661
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,100
It's 36 dollars in the state of
Ohio.

662
00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:54,800
And I think you can get that
pretty readily across the

663
00:37:54,808 --> 00:37:58,000
country.
I don't know like a 5 and a half

664
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,900
for Value because I'm with you
that there's a There's the

665
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:07,900
reality that I just don't know
who would want to pay $35 for

666
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:10,500
this.
Because I think there's a lot of

667
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,300
other options out there in this
price range.

668
00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:16,200
That might just give you a
better experience with malt.

669
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,400
I agree, I don't see.
This is the hard thing is like,

670
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,900
what are we comparing it to, to
know that?

671
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:24,400
It's a bad value, where we
comparing it to woodford's,

672
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,500
Bourbon because this is markedly
worse than their bourbon rate.

673
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:33,400
Are we comparing It to a blended
whiskey.

674
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,000
That's $35 like a monkey
shoulder because I think this is

675
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,900
probably like about as good as
monkey shoulder, but I probably

676
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,700
still PicMonkey shoulder.
I mean, it has a monkey on the

677
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:44,500
bottom.
That's true.

678
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:47,300
This has no monkeys.
So Point points off for no

679
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:50,100
monkeys.
Yeah, I guess that's what my big

680
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:51,700
struggle is.
Like, it's hard to find a value

681
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:54,100
on this.
I don't think 36. 35 dollars is

682
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,500
really overpriced but I just
don't really know what's the

683
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:00,000
comparison Point here.
So I'm going to give it a six

684
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:03,700
out of ten on value.
That brings me out to a 34 out

685
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:06,300
of 50 Bobby.
I'm sitting at a thirty two

686
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:08,700
point five out of 50.
Oh wow, okay.

687
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,700
All right.
So that brings us to a 66 and a

688
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:16,300
half out of 100 or a thirty.
Three point two five out of 50

689
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,000
which is kind of one of our
lower ones this season Brad.

690
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,700
And here's the thing, I don't
think this is a bad whiskey.

691
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,500
Hmm.
I don't even know that I would

692
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:29,300
call this a mediocre whiskey.
Like it's it's not bad but yeah,

693
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:31,300
I don't know that there's
anything here for me to be like

694
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:36,500
Yes, go buy a bottle or even
yes, drop eight to nine dollars

695
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:39,100
on a poor of this at a bar,
right?

696
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:41,900
Like it's good if someone has it
at their house, like it's

697
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:45,400
certainly worth drinking, but
among Woodford products.

698
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,700
This is probably one of my least
favorites.

699
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,900
Yeah.
I mean if you have a group of

700
00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:52,800
people that you're, you know,
drinking whiskey with and, you

701
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,900
know, five people want to go in
on a bottle, go for it.

702
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,200
Like yeah.
It's worth spending a few bucks,

703
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,600
have a few pores but overall, I
think I'm Man, I don't know if I

704
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,200
can recommend at the bar or, you
know, in your house.

705
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:09,400
All right.
Well, that is been Woodford.

706
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,200
Malted whiskey, Brad.
Let's get back into talking

707
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,600
about the Searchers, what do you
say?

708
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:16,300
Yeah, I'm super pumped man.
Let's get back to it.

709
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,600
All right, everybody that was
Woodford, Reserve.

710
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,200
Kentucky straight malt whiskey
whiskey, that Bob and I were

711
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:30,700
decent on, that's okay, yeah, it
was fun.

712
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,600
You know what we are more than
fine with Bob, is it to fax in a

713
00:40:37,607 --> 00:40:43,000
falsehood, it's two facts enough
also this is like, really,

714
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:45,000
really quickly.
Turning into my favorite

715
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,500
segments of our podcast, like a
blast.

716
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:49,100
It's fun.
It's fun to do.

717
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,800
It gives some some interesting
facts, it creates a little bit

718
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,300
of competition which, you know,
we're Americans.

719
00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:59,100
So we're suckers for that.
It's a good time man.

720
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:01,800
So for those of you who don't
know, this is the part of the

721
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,600
podcast, where Brad will present
three things to me all of them.

722
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,700
As fact, when in reality, one of
them is a complete lie.

723
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:10,900
And I have to guess which one is
the LIE.

724
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,600
Brad has been getting better and
better at writing these and so

725
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,900
it's been getting very hard but
I'm well over 500 now I think

726
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:20,500
Brad I think I'm like a and six
are the year.

727
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:23,000
Does that sound right believe?
So yeah you've been on a run for

728
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,500
a while here well that ends soon
my friend.

729
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,600
I know I know you well enough
and I didn't do a whole lot of

730
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,600
research on the making of this
movie.

731
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,200
So this might be the day you get
me Brad but hit me with your two

732
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,300
facts and a falsehood.
Well, I will say this is a

733
00:41:38,308 --> 00:41:42,500
little bit of a Scramble for me
because one of my facts had been

734
00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:46,000
that David lean washes as
inspiration for Lawrence of

735
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,200
Arabia and I almost kept that to
myself and just say so There may

736
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,400
or may not be a portion of the
first half of the episode where

737
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,500
I'm not listening to you.
And instead looking up another

738
00:41:57,500 --> 00:42:01,000
one to right?
Do you just do just want to let

739
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,200
me do a 50-50 coin.
Flip on the two remaining things

740
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,300
I don't.
I'm so mad at myself.

741
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,000
I mean, if you were like one and
12 right now than sure, yeah,

742
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,700
I'd give it to you, but here's
the this competition Bob, here's

743
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,600
the thing that thing about David
lean came directly off of the

744
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,900
Searchers Wikipedia page, Age
and I was like, no bread.

745
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:23,900
Does more than just read the
Wikipedia page?

746
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:26,100
I could probably get away with
saying this David lean thing.

747
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,300
Yeah, sure.
Of course.

748
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:36,100
All right, Bob fax number one
John, Wayne a decently famous

749
00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:38,500
actor.
He loved the role of Ethan

750
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:42,200
Edwards so much that he ended up
naming his youngest son.

751
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,100
Ethan.
Yeah.

752
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:46,900
And I managed to the role that
yikes, you know, that's a big

753
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:49,900
No-No.
Fact.

754
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:54,200
Number two, and Baxter was
originally cast to play Lori

755
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,500
j��rgensen.
However, she took the role of

756
00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:59,900
nefertari in a little old movie,
nobody's problem.

757
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,300
Only heard of called The Ten
Commandments which led to Vera

758
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:07,800
Miles being cast in the role.
Instead fact number three Lena

759
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,500
would played young Debbie
Edwards and Natalie Wood?

760
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,600
Her older sister played Teenage
W Edwards.

761
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,300
Should I scan the Wikipedia
page?

762
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:22,100
Very quickly is what I should.
Yeah.

763
00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:24,000
Cheating.
Cheating is the answer, Bob

764
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,400
shootings, always the answer.
I think three is true.

765
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,700
I mean, I, I'm pretty sure the
actress's name was Lana wood.

766
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:35,300
So I'm going to assume that was
Natalie, Wood, sister and

767
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:37,900
Baxter.
Seems like she would be too old

768
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:41,200
for this role but John Ford has
demonstrated that he doesn't

769
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,500
care how old you are.
You can still play a teenager

770
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:48,900
But you know, and Baxter very
famous for All About Eve and she

771
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:52,200
was clearly in her mid to late
20s then and it we're talking

772
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,700
six years after that.
Now I just feel like she was

773
00:43:55,700 --> 00:44:01,900
probably too old for this movie.
The John Wayne thing I'm staying

774
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:05,800
away from because it seems like
a stupid idea to name your kid

775
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,400
after your most racist
character.

776
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:11,300
However, I mean who's to say,
it's John Wayne, right?

777
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:16,400
So I'm going to say twos the
falsehood But I wouldn't and

778
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,100
Baxter.
Yes, I won't be surprised if

779
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,800
one's the falsehood, but I'm
going to say to Bob, you are

780
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:26,200
nail on the head.
Correct.

781
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,200
All right, and Baxter, I looked
it up because I wanted to check

782
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,800
the age difference to make sure
that they weren't, you know, too

783
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,400
far off.
Do you want to know how much

784
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,200
older and Baxter is than Vera
Miles?

785
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:42,600
How old was Vera Miles?
Well, I'm sorry.

786
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:43,900
I'm not sure how little they
were with.

787
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:47,700
They were in this.
She's six years older than that

788
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:49,900
beer - wow.
And you too.

789
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:52,300
You literally just said, you're
like yeah, she's probably about

790
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:54,600
six years, too old for this
role.

791
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,200
Well yeah, you nailed it, man.
I got it.

792
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,000
All right.
Cool, Anne was born in 23 and

793
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,800
Vera was born in 29.
All right.

794
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,700
Well, there you go, ma'am.
I'm having a good year so far a

795
00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:07,800
good season.
It dude.

796
00:45:08,300 --> 00:45:11,000
All right, Brad.
Well from the the highest highs.

797
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:13,400
Dive immediately into the
racist.

798
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,200
Undertones of this film is nose
dive right into that.

799
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,700
Honestly, I'm weirdly excited
for this conversation because

800
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:29,900
I've had so many questions about
media and their depiction of

801
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:34,600
things that are like taboo and
like the question that I guess

802
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,100
I'll use to frame this
conversation and maybe this is

803
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:40,800
more towards modern media, but I
think you can apply it towards

804
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,800
older.
Films as well at what point is

805
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:50,800
the parody of something bad.
Not bad, because it's a parody.

806
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,000
Hmmm.
Does that make sense?

807
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,800
Yeah, like, I feel and, you
know, I'm going to use political

808
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,200
terms here, and I hope people
don't get too much into an

809
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,700
uproar about it, but like, I
feel like when I watch more

810
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:10,400
left-leaning, things like
Saturday Night Live, it feels

811
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,400
like they will often parody
somebody who is racist or

812
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,800
somebody who, you know, they
don't like.

813
00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:20,400
But they'll We'll have those
characters do really bad evil

814
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,600
racist things but it's funny
because we're making fun of it

815
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,500
but I'm like at what point and
and I just brought up Saturday

816
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:29,700
Night Live the right does the
same things.

817
00:46:29,700 --> 00:46:32,300
I'm not trying to like, you
know, cast stones here.

818
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:36,500
And what I'm trying to point out
is like, at what point is

819
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:42,500
portraying racism, just bad and
at what point is it helpful

820
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:46,600
because we go, oh yeah, we all
know that, that's bad and it's

821
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,200
good for young.
Generations to see it so they

822
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,000
can see how bad it is and not do
it themselves like that.

823
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,400
It's does that make sense?
It's really funny that you

824
00:46:54,408 --> 00:46:56,500
brought up Saturday Night Live
because I was thinking about a

825
00:46:56,508 --> 00:46:59,900
similar show, 30 Rock, which I
think is a hilarious show.

826
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:04,600
I love 31 and in the first
season of 30 Rock the character

827
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,800
that's played by Jane Krakowski.
Yep.

828
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,600
As a flashback and you find out
that that this very white, very

829
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:16,300
blond woman is actually of
Native American ancestry and

830
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:19,400
that your parents did It approve
of her dream to be an actress

831
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,000
and they kicked her off the
reservation.

832
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:24,200
And I think to get back to what
you're asking.

833
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,600
The reason that I think that
scene works.

834
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,900
And the funny thing about it is,
I've seen people poopoo that

835
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:34,200
seen as like, this is racist.
Why would you, why would you

836
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,700
even portray this?
The reason that scene works is

837
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:40,300
because the Native Americans are
not the butt of the joke in that

838
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:45,200
scene, like the the whole joke
is she's a white person and

839
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,500
we're trying to portray.
We're trying to play this off.

840
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:51,400
To you that it that it would
even be plausible that she's a

841
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,100
Native American.
And I think the fact that Native

842
00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:59,300
Americans are in on the joke but
not the butt of the joke.

843
00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:02,800
I think plays a big role in it
and so I kind of want to use

844
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,400
that as my framing device to
talk about the racism in and of

845
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,400
this movie because I don't have
a problem with anything.

846
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,400
John Wayne's character is
saying, you know, in terms of

847
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,600
like he's very clearly racist,
he's very clearly wrong.

848
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,000
He's very clearly Blinded by
hatred and the movie does a very

849
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,100
good job of portraying that and
like there's there's really no

850
00:48:24,100 --> 00:48:27,100
ambiguity there.
And so anyone who has a problem

851
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,900
with that I think is just not
watching the movie close enough.

852
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:33,400
I think there is a legitimate
conversation to be had though

853
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,400
about the way that John Ford
kind of muddies up the waters a

854
00:48:36,408 --> 00:48:39,100
little bit because it seems at
times like he's trying to make a

855
00:48:39,107 --> 00:48:43,900
statement about this, this
violently racist person, but

856
00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:47,500
then he throws in kind of like a
slapstick humor scene.

857
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,500
Where this imbecile Moe's is
pretending to be a Native

858
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:55,200
American and using all the most
offensive stereotypes to do

859
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,400
that.
And the, the joke in that scene,

860
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:02,100
is an even like, hey, Moses,
dumb, the joke in that scene is

861
00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:05,300
like, isn't it funny that he's
doing these things?

862
00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:09,100
And I think that's part of where
if you're going to talk about

863
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,700
things that have not held up.
Well from this movie, it's those

864
00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:16,100
kind of things where it's like
John Ford seems to almost be

865
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:18,600
undermining the argument.
He's trying to make by including

866
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:19,500
those things.
I don't know.

867
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:23,000
Does that make sense?
It does and I'm curious how you

868
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:29,500
feel about the miscommunication
scene because I feel like which

869
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:35,400
one which one is this when when
Martin shali is trading for

870
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,500
some, you know, a blanket and
some Goods.

871
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,300
Oh yeah.
You know, he doesn't realize

872
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:44,000
that he's actually trading for a
wife and I'm kind of curious

873
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,300
because there's part of me,
that's like there's a lot like

874
00:49:47,300 --> 00:49:49,900
it all.
Feels like a Trope that when,

875
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:56,900
you know, when white people meet
a foreign or a native tribe of

876
00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:59,000
some sorts, it's like, oh yeah,
they're they're not able to

877
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,800
communicate and they miss
communicate and they trade the

878
00:50:01,808 --> 00:50:04,400
wrong things.
So it doesn't feel like it's

879
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:08,200
outside the realm of the
miscommunication between races,

880
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:15,700
you know, Trope but it doesn't.
It just didn't fit super well.

881
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,000
No, it didn't and There's so
many directions, we can go here.

882
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,600
But one thing that I really love
is something that Roger Ebert

883
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,800
wrote about this movie, and he
basically said that, like the

884
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,500
Fatal flaw of this movie, is
that it's trying to be two

885
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:31,700
movies in one and it's trying to
be this really serious and dark

886
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,600
and kind of like soul-searching
movie when it's about John

887
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,000
Wayne's character.
And then it's trying to be like

888
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,000
this sort of over-the-top broad
comedy.

889
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,100
Every time we returned to the
home front and that it just the

890
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:50,000
The Clash of those two.
Owns doesn't really work and

891
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,200
this is something that I wanted
to talk to you about because it

892
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,400
sounds like from your point of
view that actually really made

893
00:50:55,400 --> 00:51:00,000
the movie work for you.
But I think for me, it almost

894
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,500
serves to undermine the point of
the movie and a scene, like what

895
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:06,300
you're talking about I think is
a perfect illustration of that.

896
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:10,600
Where it becomes like slapstick,
it's like that slapstick.

897
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:15,600
It's okay to have little moments
like that, but it just seems to

898
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,800
upend what towards trying to get
at in so many other parts of the

899
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,800
movie.
Well, I think that the issue

900
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,600
with, you know, specifically
the, I'll just keep calling it

901
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,100
the miscommunication trading
sequence, the issue with it,

902
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:34,400
isn't that the miscommunication
happens, it's the way that that

903
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:39,300
Martin pawley responds to it and
how like you said earlier, how

904
00:51:39,300 --> 00:51:42,800
childish he is.
He, you know, she like, lays

905
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,000
down next to him, not, not even
in a sexual way.

906
00:51:46,100 --> 00:51:50,400
Like she just lays down next to
Her now husband and he takes

907
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:56,400
both feet rears back in like,
kicks her down this hill and you

908
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,300
know, John Wayne is laughing
about it and Martin's telling

909
00:51:59,300 --> 00:52:04,500
him to shut up like like it's
not funny and and it's just not

910
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:06,600
funny.
None of it's funny but I think

911
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,100
that that scene could have
worked, you know, I think that

912
00:52:10,100 --> 00:52:13,000
if there's The Accidental
communication John Wayne pokes

913
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,700
out a little bit but then they
just get on with the seriousness

914
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:19,300
of their hunt.
And, you know, she helps them

915
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:21,400
with their hunt.
I think that there could have

916
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,200
been a meaningful interaction
there of like, you know, Ethan

917
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:30,400
realizing like, you know, maybe
maybe I'm not as as right about

918
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,100
these Native Americans, as I
thought I was, and there could

919
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:37,200
have been a meaningful
relationship there and her death

920
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,500
could have felt more powerful
and I'm like that, it just felt

921
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:42,900
like there's a missed
opportunity with her character

922
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:45,500
to make some slapstick comedy
jokes.

923
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,400
Yeah.
No, I totally agree.

924
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,400
N, I don't know, this is I guess
what I'll do now, if it's okay

925
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,400
with you is I want to present
what I think is actually the

926
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,200
better way of reading this movie
and the racism obviously is

927
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,700
there and it's a lens through
which to read this movie.

928
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,400
But if I can give a preview of
my pick for, let's make it a

929
00:53:05,408 --> 00:53:08,000
double, we've been doing this
thing every week where we pick a

930
00:53:08,008 --> 00:53:11,400
movie to serve as a double
feature for the movie that we've

931
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,300
just seen and Brad.
If I had to pick a movie to line

932
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:17,400
up with this movie, it would be
one that we just recently.

933
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:21,600
Currently watched and it would
be Raging Bull and it's because

934
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,400
of what is driving both of the
main characters in these movies.

935
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,300
And it wasn't until I really
started reading through this

936
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:31,400
little book from the British
Film Institute about the

937
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,800
Searchers written by the author.
Edward bus comb and he talks

938
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,700
about how the best way to look
at this movie is through the

939
00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:43,100
sexual lens and how that key
scene with John Wayne like

940
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,900
longing and lusting.
After his, brother's wife is the

941
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:50,500
key to this.
Movie that he has internalized

942
00:53:50,900 --> 00:53:54,500
his own kind of self-hatred for
doing this to his brother and

943
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:58,100
then he gets his brother and his
brother's wife killed in his own

944
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:00,800
eyes and he internalizes that
even further.

945
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:04,800
And it's very similar to what we
saw with Jake LaMotta in Raging

946
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,900
Bull where he has this outward
hatred and pushes everyone away.

947
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:14,000
But it's because of his own kind
of impotence and, you know, like

948
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,200
sexual impotence but also
inability to Relate to other

949
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,800
people and that he gets to the
point where he's almost like

950
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,400
calling down divine retribution
on himself and the way Busco and

951
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,400
reads this movie is that John
Wayne's character is motivated

952
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:36,100
mostly by revenge for what this,
you know, this Chief did to the

953
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:40,000
long-lost love of his life.
But he points out that those two

954
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,400
characters Scar and Ethan are
basically mirror images of each

955
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,800
other that they're, they're
equally brutal towards the In

956
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:53,200
that they know how to, you know,
psychologically damaged their

957
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,900
enemy.
And it gets to the point where

958
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:00,400
he wants to kill Natalie Woods
character because he sees her as

959
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,700
being corrupted, by the the
Native Americans because he

960
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:06,400
assumes that she's been raped or
they've had sex with her in some

961
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,600
way.
And he has this almost like

962
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:14,600
Travis Bickle, kind of view of
like, he's like, sexually messed

963
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,300
up from lusting after his
brother's wife.

964
00:55:17,500 --> 00:55:20,400
And because of that like he
takes that his own self hatred

965
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,900
out on the Indians, the Native
Americans and saying like oh

966
00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:27,500
like they're corrupting our
white women that way and the

967
00:55:27,500 --> 00:55:29,600
more I thought about this
interpretation the movie the

968
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,500
more I'm like, oh I actually
think this is the best way to

969
00:55:31,508 --> 00:55:35,400
read this character.
That his own inner self conflict

970
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,200
and self-loathing is what is
motivating his Psychopathic

971
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,700
violence toward them.
You know, there's a great

972
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:44,400
chapter in this book where he
talks about that scene, where

973
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,800
John Wayne goes off and just
like massacres a Native

974
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,800
Americans.
And you they just never talk

975
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,100
about it again.
But you can only imagine like

976
00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:56,200
what he did to all of them.
And he reads the ending of this

977
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,700
movie where John Wayne rides
into this little village finds

978
00:56:00,700 --> 00:56:05,200
scar dead and scalps.
Him as sort of like this is John

979
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,500
Wayne's, final Act of Revenge.
He did something like to violate

980
00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:14,100
this man's body that he saw as
being equivalent to what this

981
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:19,100
guy did to the love of his life.
And because of that, his his

982
00:56:19,100 --> 00:56:22,800
bloodlust is, I don't know
satiated and that's what allows

983
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,000
him to go back to Natalie Wood
at the end of the movie and not

984
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,300
want to kill her anymore because
he you know, his need for

985
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:33,000
vengeance has been met and I'm
like, okay I get it now.

986
00:56:33,300 --> 00:56:36,000
Like I actually think that
really put this movie in

987
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,900
perspective for me is holding it
up in a very similar light to

988
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:43,400
what we saw from somebody like
Jake LaMotta in Raging Bull.

989
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:51,100
Well and it also for me
Illustrated the negative end

990
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:55,500
place that you come to in a when
you in a search for vengeance

991
00:56:55,500 --> 00:57:01,300
and it's easy for us, you know,
in 2022 to look back and cast

992
00:57:01,300 --> 00:57:03,400
blame and say, who is wrong and
do all these things.

993
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,400
But in the end, what you have is
two different civilizations,

994
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,700
doing really brutal, horrific
things to one another and this

995
00:57:12,700 --> 00:57:18,700
movie straights like to what end
like at what point is enough

996
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:22,500
enough is ook scars, dead and
scalped.

997
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:26,600
Okay, now we're done, but do we
really think it's done?

998
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:30,100
Do we really think that Ethan
isn't going to find some other

999
00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:32,700
Grudge to hold against someone
else?

1000
00:57:33,300 --> 00:57:35,800
Like this might be a weird
comparison.

1001
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,600
But like, when I think about a
person like Michael Jordan, he

1002
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,300
is, you know, revered for his
Competitive Edge that he Find

1003
00:57:44,300 --> 00:57:49,200
absolutely anything to be
hateful towards others about and

1004
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:50,900
use that to beat them on the
court.

1005
00:57:51,100 --> 00:57:54,000
Well, what happens when you have
a human being like that?

1006
00:57:54,100 --> 00:57:58,000
Who doesn't live in a civilized
era where we compete on a

1007
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,900
basketball court?
What happens when it happens in

1008
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:07,500
the late 1800s and the man has a
gun and just insatiable desire

1009
00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:10,700
for vengeance.
Well you see what happens here

1010
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,400
and so I think that's for me
kind of the Reputation of the

1011
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:20,200
movie that that, I walked away
with was like, like, why is

1012
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,400
violence the answer to Violent?
Like where does the cycle end

1013
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:26,600
kind of a weird?
Yes, where does the cycle end?

1014
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,700
And, you know, for Ford in this
movie, it ends when he scalps

1015
00:58:29,700 --> 00:58:33,400
him, but I left the movie
watching, you know, the door

1016
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:39,100
closed on, on Ethan, Edwards
just wondering who's his next

1017
00:58:39,100 --> 00:58:40,100
victim.
Mmm.

1018
00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:42,900
Yeah.
And I think, honestly, watching

1019
00:58:42,900 --> 00:58:46,200
through raging Really helped me
appreciate this movie more,

1020
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,000
because we both set it on the
Raging Bull episode that like

1021
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,700
the final 30 minutes of Raging
Bull more than makes up for any

1022
00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:55,800
flaws in the earlier, part of
the movie and I really felt like

1023
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,500
that same thing here.
I felt like the deeper that he

1024
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:03,500
goes into his vengefulness and
his inability to be pulled out

1025
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:05,500
of it.
It's really just hurting

1026
00:59:05,500 --> 00:59:08,800
himself, I mean, in addition to
other people, but he becomes an

1027
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,000
almost unrest, curable figure.
And even though he returns

1028
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,200
Debbie, To her home.
At the end of the movie, it's

1029
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,600
very clear that like he has made
his bed.

1030
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:23,100
He believes that he needs to lie
in it that he it's almost like

1031
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:25,900
he feels like he needs to be
punished for what he's done and

1032
00:59:25,900 --> 00:59:28,000
for what he's believed.
And for the secrets that he's

1033
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,800
been keeping in his heart, this
whole time and that because of

1034
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,800
that, he doesn't have a home, he
can't be invited into the home

1035
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,000
at the end of the movie.
And I just, I really loved this

1036
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,100
guy Edward bus comb and his
interpretation of the movie

1037
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:46,300
because he sees so much Parallel
between Scar and Ethan that when

1038
00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:50,900
Ethan looks across its car and
he wonders like did he rape the

1039
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:55,000
love of my life?
He's angry at scar beak and he

1040
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,700
wants to kill scar because he
sees scars like an extension of

1041
00:59:57,700 --> 01:00:03,400
himself like he raped my
brother's wife.

1042
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:05,500
Well I wanted to have sex with
my brother's wife and so he

1043
01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:09,100
actually carried out the action
that I hate myself for wanting

1044
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:11,400
to carry out.
And so like when he goes to kill

1045
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,400
scar when he cuts his scalp off
at the The end of the movie.

1046
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,500
It's like his almost like his
way of exercising that demon

1047
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,700
from himself.
And I actually think like, I

1048
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:22,700
don't know, man.
I really love to hear your take

1049
01:00:22,700 --> 01:00:25,300
on this because I didn't really
think about it in these terms

1050
01:00:25,300 --> 01:00:27,700
until just earlier this evening.
And I'm just kind of working it

1051
01:00:27,700 --> 01:00:32,200
out here on are.
Yeah, I mean I I think that our

1052
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:38,500
culture has slowly come to
believe that the sexual impulse

1053
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:44,700
is the key impulse to the human
existence and Personally, I just

1054
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:50,300
disagree with that, I don't
think that that is the core

1055
01:00:50,300 --> 01:00:53,000
impetus for why we live as
humans.

1056
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,600
Think there's some other stuff
going on, but it's movies like

1057
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,200
this that represent the cultures
shift towards that because I

1058
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,700
think you're 100% right.
I think what Ford is trying to

1059
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:07,600
portray here is like that Wayne
had or you know, Ethan has this

1060
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:12,300
Forbidden Love and he's not
allowed to act out on it but the

1061
01:01:12,300 --> 01:01:17,000
key is if he Is violent enough.
He could have acted out on it

1062
01:01:17,300 --> 01:01:21,300
and if he was more like scar, he
could have gotten what he wanted

1063
01:01:21,300 --> 01:01:25,100
to and he hates that in himself
and he hates that scar.

1064
01:01:25,100 --> 01:01:28,400
Got to do what he wanted to do,
because he was more violent than

1065
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,700
Ethan was and he wasn't Bound by
propriety.

1066
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,300
And so for the rest of the
movie, Ethan is not bound by

1067
01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:38,800
propriety anymore.
He's chosen the, he's chosen the

1068
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,400
path of violence.
All right, man.

1069
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,300
Well, we got really deep on this
and I think for good reason,

1070
01:01:45,300 --> 01:01:48,500
this is a really good movie.
I don't think everything works.

1071
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:51,000
And I, you know, we haven't even
really talked about the fact

1072
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:55,800
that John, Ford hired, a German
guy to play his main bad guy in

1073
01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:01,100
scar who very obviously does not
look Native American when whole

1074
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:06,100
very obviously chose a name, you
know, and he chose a part of the

1075
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:09,600
Navajo tribe to play the rest of
the Native Americans in this.

1076
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,200
Just does not look Native
American at all which is like, I

1077
01:02:14,207 --> 01:02:16,600
feel like we could we could talk
about that for a half-hour.

1078
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:20,200
And itself is like, well, is it
a good thing that he chose a

1079
01:02:20,207 --> 01:02:24,000
non-native, American, to be the
evil Native American?

1080
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,900
Yeah.
Or is it even more insulting?

1081
01:02:27,500 --> 01:02:29,600
Like I don't even, I don't know.
I feel like you could look at it

1082
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,000
both ways, like our actors
aren't good enough.

1083
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,400
Yeah.
In evil.

1084
01:02:34,900 --> 01:02:36,700
But then it's like, what would
you want to be portrayed that

1085
01:02:36,700 --> 01:02:39,000
way?
So I don't know, but like I'm

1086
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,000
saying there's a lot of flaws.
With this movie, but I think

1087
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,800
what it's setting out to Do It.
Ultimately accomplishes.

1088
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:47,700
I am much higher on this movie
than I thought.

1089
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:50,500
I would be even like 2/3 into
watching it.

1090
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:52,600
I'm going to come out to an
eight and a half on this film.

1091
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,900
Bob you never let me do my make
it a dub.

1092
01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:57,600
Oh yeah.
What would your bb?

1093
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:02,700
I think that my double feature
mostly based on the plot but

1094
01:03:02,700 --> 01:03:08,200
also based on the tortured main
character Gone Baby Gone.

1095
01:03:09,700 --> 01:03:10,500
Oh, nice.
Wow.

1096
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:14,600
That would be a heavy back to
back, geez, man.

1097
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:18,200
I literally almost changed it
because I was like, that might

1098
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,700
be the most brutal four to five
hours you would ever spend

1099
01:03:22,700 --> 01:03:24,800
watching movies.
What a Greta?

1100
01:03:24,900 --> 01:03:28,300
How good is gone.
Baby gone, dude, it's so good.

1101
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,100
I've never gonna watch it again.
It's that good.

1102
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:37,500
I just except when you fire it
up right after the Searchers

1103
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:39,200
apparently.
Oh, man.

1104
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,000
Yeah, it's so good.
So catch it, you were bringing

1105
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,800
up Raging Bull earlier can I
just say that that final scene

1106
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:52,000
with Pesci and De Niro might be
the saddest seen in any movie

1107
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,200
we've ever watched weather like
in the parking garage together.

1108
01:03:55,300 --> 01:03:56,500
Yeah.
Oh yeah.

1109
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,700
It's go.
Yeah, just brutal.

1110
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,700
Well folks, we hope you've
enjoyed today's installment of

1111
01:04:04,700 --> 01:04:06,200
filming this key.
Brad.

1112
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:07,700
What would you give this movie
out of 10?

1113
01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:09,700
I'm going to give it a 9 out of
10 Bob?

1114
01:04:09,900 --> 01:04:12,700
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it is truly one of

1115
01:04:12,700 --> 01:04:17,800
the greatest westerns ever made
and I'm just a huge fan of this

1116
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,100
movie.
Alright so we are coming out to

1117
01:04:20,100 --> 01:04:23,000
an average of an eight point
seven five out of ten but we'd

1118
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,000
like to know what you think.
So, please reach out to us on

1119
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,800
social media, you can find us on
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and

1120
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,500
new Leon Tick-Tock at film
whiskey.

1121
01:04:32,700 --> 01:04:35,700
Or if you want, you can jump
onto our Discord.

1122
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,500
Discord is a really cool place.
It's kind of like a private

1123
01:04:39,500 --> 01:04:41,900
social media.
Our only the people you want to

1124
01:04:41,900 --> 01:04:45,400
talk to her on there, and we
just have a blast, talking about

1125
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:49,100
movies and whiskey, and all
sorts of other things.

1126
01:04:49,100 --> 01:04:52,400
So if you want to join the
conversation, go to the end of

1127
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:54,900
any of our show notes and you
can find a link to our Discord

1128
01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:57,800
there.
Next week, we'll be wrapping up

1129
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,800
our John Ford miniseries with a
much lighter movie than the

1130
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,300
Searchers.
It's 1952, s The Quiet, Man.

1131
01:05:05,700 --> 01:05:08,500
So we'll see you for that one
next week, but until then, I'm

1132
01:05:08,500 --> 01:05:12,000
Bob book, I'm Reggie.
She and we'll see you next time.