Silence / The Wiseman Rye

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In 2016, director Martin,
Scorsese and star.

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Andrew Garfield gave the world,
a prolonged examination of the

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role of suffering in faith in
2022.

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Kentucky, owl gives us the first
of two new budget Expressions,

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the film is silence.
The whiskey is the wise men ride

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and we'll review them both.
This is the film and whiskey

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podcast.
Welcome to the film and whiskey

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podcast, where each week, we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and

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you're doing the accent of
everyone in this movie Brad

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Because this week, we're looking
at a 2013's silence, a movie

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full of terrible accents, just
the worse.

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And to be clear, I think, as I
said that, I might, I realized

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that I might have sounded like,
I was imitating a Japanese

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accent.
I was not trying to do that.

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I was trying to joke about the
fact that Adam Driver and Liam

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Neeson and Andrew Garfield.
Cannot do a Portuguese accent to

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save their lives.
Nope, not at all, not at all.

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It's It's so bad.
Hey, let's just get that out of

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the way now.
So like, I like this movie a lot

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Brad.
And obviously, I think, like,

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we've actually been talking
about this movie for many years

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on the podcast, because when we
first started the show episode 1

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of filmin, whiskey is
Goodfellas, and you said on that

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correct, who directed that
bigger?

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Right?
You said on that podcast, that

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the only Scorsese movie you had
seen up to that point was

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silence.
So like yeah your introduction

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to Or say Z was perhaps the
least stereotypically Scorsese

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film there is in terms of in
terms of content and Rhythm.

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Well, it was really funny.
So the reason I saw silence, one

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of my absolute best friends in
the world.

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Matt Kalman.
He lives out in St.

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Louis, he was visiting me while
I was while we were both in

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seminary, and we were just like
had a group of friends over,

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because I wanted my friends to
meet my buddy that I lived with,

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in Philly.
And we are hanging out, we had

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dinner, we, you know, had a few
drinks.

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And we were like, let's watch a
movie.

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And Matt was like, yeah, I heard
about this movie called silence.

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It's about these like Jesuit
missionaries to Japan.

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I'm really interested in it.
I want to watch it.

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And so everybody in the group
was like, well, you know, we're

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going to let the guest pick the
movie X.

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I'll just say this, in a group
of like 8 to 10 people silence

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is not necessarily the move.
To watch Classic Party.

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Movie silence.
Followed by a Maybe do like a

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back-to-back viewing and then
just throw on like Schindler's

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List, right afterwards?
Yeah, rip-roaring.

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Good times.
We were like weeping halfway

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through the movie, so, yeah.
That was my introduction to the

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illustrious world of Martin
Scorsese.

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So, I also saw this movie while
we were in seminary and you know

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of course I had been keeping
tabs on it because Scorsese

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this, this project had been
gestating in the mind of

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Scorsese for decades.
He wanted to make it in the 80s.

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Didn't have the funding set.
It aside came back to it, set it

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aside.
Again you know, and then he

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makes the Wolf of Wall Street
and he's like, you know, it's

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probably time for me to do
silence.

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I think, I think the man needed
a reset, he finally does silence

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and it comes out with just a
thud.

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Like, I don't know what
happened.

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I still I'm trying to figure out
like, if the studio just

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decided, this is not really
going to work.

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I know that he delivered it.
At the very last minute.

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And so it wasn't really like an
awards Contender.

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It does get nominated for best
cinematography, but like that's

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it and you'd think that a
Scorsese movie would have more

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like oomph behind it, but this
movie kind of got dumped in

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theaters and it didn't come out,
you know, wide until January and

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the closest it was playing to
us.

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When we lived in, Kentucky was
Cincinnati.

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And so I drove like an hour and
a half, to go see this movie

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partially because there were
like a number of people that

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went to Seminary with us.
So that were also familiar with

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the fact that this movie was
coming out and as Seminary Bros

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are want to do, they already had
opinions on like the content of

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the movie having not seen it.
And I was like for the love of

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God.
Like I'm gonna at least go see

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this movie before, I formed my
opinion on it.

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So like I knew I was the only
person at Asbury Seminary that

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had driven an hour and a half to
go see this movie that was

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released in like five theaters.
So it was nice to at least know

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who was talking out of their
butt and whoo.

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Not and that's my experience
with silence.

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First off, I am okay with not
being at Seminary anymore, Bob

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dude, me too that the life of
Seminary Bros was was a little

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bit tiresome if I'm being
honest.

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Secondly, I love your commitment
to being right, you know?

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It's not even like that.
I want to be, right?

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It's just that I want.
I want to speak from an informed

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Place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It clearly some that so many
people in seminary, don't care

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about that.
That's 100% the case.

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Yeah.
Well in the spirit of being

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informed Brad and I have both
seen silence now, multiple

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times.
We're going to talk through the

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whole thing performances.
The direction I want to talk

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about the pacing of the movie, a
bit, because having seen it now,

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for a second time, Brad, I
hadn't watched it since the

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theater.
I do think this movie is a

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little slow.
I do think this movie is not

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perfect, but we have a very
particular Attachment to and

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lens to view this movie from.
And so I think we're going to

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have a really good discussion on
this today.

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But before we start all that,
it's time for us to throw over

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to Brad explains, which is
America's favorite segments.

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This is the part of the podcast
where Brad breaks down the plot

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of the film that he has just
seen often for the first time.

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This is not Brad's first time
seeing silence, so let's just

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get that clear.
However, it is a three hour long

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movie and we're only giving you
60 seconds to break.

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Take down the plot of it.
Brad.

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Do you think you can do it?
All right I think this movie

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comes in three parts.
There's the opening when Andrew

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Garfield and Adam Driver are
Jesuit priests, they find out

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that their Mentor has apostatize
do, which you will probably hear

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that word.
A lot means that they recanted

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their faith or basically said,
I'm not a Christian anymore, so

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they go to Japan.
Second part of the movie is them

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ministering.
To basically an underground

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church that is being repressed
by the Japanese government at

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the time.
And then, the third part of the

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movie is when they are captured
and it follows, Andrew Garfield,

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who eventually recants his faith
and becomes a Christian router

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outer for the Japanese
government and then he dies and

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he was still a Christian
question, mark.

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Yeah, see what I did there.
So this movie does a lot of

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things really well and it does a
lot of things not so well, I'll

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say that now.
Right, a couple days ago, Brad.

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I made a spreadsheet that I
don't know what I'm going to do

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with yet but I put every movie
we've ever reviewed on the

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podcast in one spreadsheet and
it has our scores and it has the

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IMDb score and I am fairly
certain that silence is either

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the lowest or the second lowest
rated movie on IMDb that we have

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ever done on this podcast
really.

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I think it was like
Elizabethtown and then silence

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is not right above it.
I was I was literally thinking.

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I was like, it beat
Elizabethtown.

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This is a better movie than the
little, for sure.

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It's a better movie than a lot
of films we've done on this

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podcast, but it has a seven
point one on IMDb with 112

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thousand reviews.
So it's not like it's an unseen

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movie.
I do think that a lot of that is

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that people have an idea in
their mind of what a

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quote-unquote Scorsese film is.
And then they go into this movie

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and it is very much a Scorsese
film it has all the themes that

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his, you know, gangster movies
have it's just not a gangster

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movie, and it's a very
slow-paced examination of

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torture and, and like, spiritual
anguish, but people probably

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went into this expecting
something a little different

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than what they got.
And I have to imagine that, at

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least part of this score is that
they were just let down that

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there wasn't enough bloodletting
in the movie.

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Yeah, I'd be curious if this
movie was given a And like had

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an opportunity to re-examine its
score with people who have sat

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with the movie for years.
I wonder if it would get, you

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know, maybe like a 74 75.
I will say when you said

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second-lowest, I wasn't
expecting to 7.1.

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I feel like there has to be more
movies in like the sixth, the

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high 62 lo7 range, then then
that that we've reviewed.

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Yeah.
Surprisingly not man, that's

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that's impressive.
Come on.

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All right, so let's talk the
movie.

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I guess, I want to start with
the performances.

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Andrew Garfield is in every
scene or nearly every scene in

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this movie, and I actually think
he's quite good.

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Andrew Garfield is one of my
favorite actors working today.

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I thought he should have won the
Oscar last year for his

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performance in the movie Tick.
Tick.

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Boom.
It was fantastic.

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He had a great year last year
and he's really, really good

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here.
Like I feel like people are

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finally coming.
Around to Andrew Garfield as the

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incredible actor that he is.
But from the time I first

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encountered him, which was in
The Social Network in 2010, you

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know, by the time he gets here,
it's 2016.

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He's in the midst of making all
these terrible Spider-Man movies

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and he goes off and does this
Scorsese film aside from the

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fact that his accent is really
not good.

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I think the performance itself
is pretty spectacular, it's it's

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an anguished internalized and
then externalized, you know,

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Like putting them through the
wringer kind of a performance

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and I think he really Nails.
It Brad.

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Well, in this movie is one that
relies a lot on narration and

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with Garfield as the primary
narrator the there's a certain

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Beauty to voice acting where you
are not on screen.

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But your voice is that a lot of
people really don't appreciate.

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You know, like we've said it on
the podcast before many times

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that Tom Hanks, talks about how
acting for Toy Story.

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He's like, Stood at the end of
the day you know he's in the

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booth giving it his all and I
think that that can be the case

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here as well.
I think you see Garfield really

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pouring his heart out on camera
and you know just vocally and

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it's really noticeable Bob.
Yeah for sure.

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I mean I want to press you a
little bit though.

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Like what did you think about
the performance itself?

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I think that he does a really
great job of using his body.

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To express where he's at?
That earlier in the film.

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He's a lot more open and he's a
lot more.

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Like like his body.
Physically is more open to The

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Peasants and as you get later in
the film, he's a lot more

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hunched up curled in on his on
himself like as he gets angry

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with Liam Neeson.
You can see him like, physically

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wanting to lash out.
And so I think the physicality

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of his performance is something
that I really love.

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Ya.
There's something about his

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character.
And it's, I mean, it's pretty

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obvious, but there are moments
in the movie where you can tell

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that Scorsese and the original
author of The Silence novel are

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using the character of Rodriguez
Garfield to kind of explore

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themes of like what Jesus went
through, right?

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And Scorsese.
Did this himself in his movie,

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The Last Temptation Of Christ,
but it's not using the character

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of Jesus, to examine some of
these things that's using

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somebody who acts as a.
Tentative of Jesus, which gives

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it this other layer of kind of
emotional torment because he

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knows what he's called to do.
He also knows what he's taken a

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pledge to do in terms of like
protecting his flock and and the

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pull between like staying
faithful to confessing Jesus and

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preserving the life and
well-being of the people that

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are in his care, I think, is
this, it's this beautiful.

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And really tortuous kind of like
interplay.

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But what I love, what I really
like about what they do with his

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character, like I said is like
they they do kind of make him

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an, what's the word like an
analog for Jesus?

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And a lot of ways because as he
gets closer to what, you know,

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is going to be the crisis point
where he's going to have to

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either apostatize or confess,
it's very similar to like what I

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would imagine the story of Jesus
is like as he gets closer to the

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cross and you have this
character, who is a very Judas

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00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,800
like character who keeps coming
in and keeps betraying him and

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00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,700
then keeps crawling back and
asking for forgiveness and you

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00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:38,900
start to see the anger and the
resentment rise up inside of

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00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:40,600
Andrew Garfield towards this
guy.

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And it's like, do I do, I do
what I know is right, which is

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to forgive this guy repeatedly
or do I let my sort of human

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emotions that are very real and
very valid take over and I love

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00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,700
that.
They're kind of examining the

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00:13:52,708 --> 00:13:55,600
story of Jesus through this guy,
bro.

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00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,600
I think that chi chi gyro is
like the Crux of this.

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00:13:59,900 --> 00:14:02,500
For sure.
Like from the moment he comes on

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00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:05,200
screen as this.
Just absolutely.

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00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,400
Drunken.
I don't, I don't know what the

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00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,500
right word to use like
imbecille, like the way they

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00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:17,100
portray him at the start is such
a broken man that you see as he

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00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:21,500
engages with his faith.
He comes back to a renewal of

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Faith, but he has that line
where he says, like, what am I

250
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800
supposed to do in a world like
this, like why couldn't I have

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00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,800
been born to a A different age
where I could have lived my

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00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,800
whole life as a happy old
Christian and just died as an

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old.
Man, why did I have to live in

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00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,000
such a difficult time?
And man if that is not like

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00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:47,100
reflective of so many Christians
existence, where whatever they

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00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,700
are struggling with, they would
ask that question.

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00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,700
Like man, why, why am I having
to struggle with this in this

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00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:56,400
time?
And the way that Andrew Garfield

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00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,500
response to him throughout the
movie?

260
00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:05,500
It's Just heart-wrenching and
touching and sad and just all

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00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:08,600
sorts of emotions.
And I really think that that's

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00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,700
where this movie works.
The best for me as far as like

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00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:17,100
causing a moral quandary and
tension within my soul for sure.

264
00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:19,500
Like the whole, the whole point
of this movie there's like four

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00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:23,900
or five different subplots that
are all designed to cause that

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00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:26,200
tension and I think, well, I
mean, we'll get into all of

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00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,300
them, but I want to steer into
the rest of of the cast real

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00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,600
quick because I feel like Brad
75% of our show.

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00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,500
Today is just going to be us
talking about these moral

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00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:37,800
quandaries.
So ling, let's at least get the

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00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,000
the camera work in the actors
out of the way here.

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00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,500
Let's drive in a New Direction.
Hey, Adam Driver Place, father,

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00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:49,100
Guru pay and again, this is Adam
Driver coming off of HBO's girls

274
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:51,300
when he's finally, like he's
first starting to kind of blow

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00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,900
up, this comes out, I think the
year following the force awakens

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00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:57,100
when the rest of the world
became aware of who, Adam Driver

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00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:59,600
was.
He's so freaking good in this.

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00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,100
Movie Brad.
But even here, you can tell that

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00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,500
people hadn't quite turned over
the reins to him.

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00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,100
The way that, you know, when we
watch marriage story and he's

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00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:11,700
like, clearly him and Scarlett,
Johansson are the two main

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00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:15,400
figures of that movie.
I think he's good here, but he's

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00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,700
really not in the movie that
much.

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00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:21,200
No, he's not.
I think that Adam Driver should

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00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,800
have been the lead and this o
interest.

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00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:29,500
I just I just genuinely think he
is a better actor than Andrew.

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00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,800
Our field just across the board,
and I think he, he would have

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00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,900
handled the introspective nature
of it better that there's

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00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:42,300
certain parts of the film, where
Garfield, he just comes across

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00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,800
as kind of corny and smell
amazing.

291
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:51,400
And I think that Adam Driver
just has like this Panache.

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00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:56,300
That would give him a little bit
of an upper hand as father

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00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:59,500
Rodriguez, instead of Guru pay.
So, here's the thing.

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00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,500
I think I disagree with you, and
it's because and I don't know if

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00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:06,099
it's because what you're saying
is like, Andrew Garfield has

296
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,700
some limitations as an actor,
but I think if he does, it works

297
00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:13,700
in his favor here because you
believe that he has a Zeal for

298
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:18,099
what he's doing, but you never
quite know if the character of

299
00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:21,099
Rodriguez totally believes what
he's telling people.

300
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:25,400
And I think that really helps
play into the character as he

301
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,200
goes along.
You know, there's this one part

302
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,700
of the movie where Garfield's
character gets kind of Of

303
00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:33,200
rounded up with a bunch of other
local Christians and they're

304
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,500
kind of sitting around and one
of them offers him something to

305
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,400
drink or something to eat and he
snaps at her.

306
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:39,800
And it's the first time that as
a priest, you see him just be a

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00:17:39,808 --> 00:17:43,900
jerk to somebody and they all
the other Christians around kind

308
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:47,300
of realized like, oh this guy,
this guy might not be exactly

309
00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:51,700
who he thinks he is or who he
says he is and I wonder if what

310
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:55,000
if you put driver in that role.
I don't know if it works as well

311
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,500
because he's so good at
convincing you that he believes.

312
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,200
What he's saying on screen and
so I feel like having that kind

313
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,300
of Da genus to him actually,
like improves Garfield's

314
00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:10,200
character.
I mean, maybe you're right man,

315
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,300
I guess I just looked at it,
plain and simple as like, I just

316
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:18,300
think Adam Driver is the better
actor, and in this film.

317
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,700
And so from that level I'm like,
yeah, sure.

318
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:24,800
He probably pulled it off
better, but but I man, you're

319
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,600
the, you're the cinephile here.
So, I'll Trust your opinion on

320
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,100
it.
No, I'm just saying like I Why I

321
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:31,800
like where they're at in this
movie?

322
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,900
However there is somebody else
we need to talk about here.

323
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,700
My boy.
He got he got taken by the

324
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,200
Japanese.
Got taken Liam's.

325
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,900
Nice Liam Neeson.
That that famous Portuguese man.

326
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:51,600
Liam Neeson, Liam.
Neeson was such a terrible.

327
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,400
Casting Choice.
Here's the thing though, he's

328
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,000
really good.
He just doesn't even attempt to

329
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,400
be Portuguese in the Very first
scene, he's kind of like doing a

330
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,800
like mildly offensive, like
Latino inflected accent and then

331
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,200
with Tino adjacent, right?
And then in the second, the

332
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,900
second time, he shows up, he's
like, hey, I'm Irish now and he

333
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:18,400
just does Liam Neeson.
And, yeah, it's I think the

334
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,800
dialogue in that scene is so
good and nice and does such a

335
00:19:21,808 --> 00:19:25,200
good job of presenting it.
So matter-of-factly that I

336
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,400
really loved his performance,
but you're right man, like,

337
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:33,500
literally Any actor from
Portugal or Spain or surrounding

338
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:35,800
regions, probably would have
been a little bit of a better

339
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,700
choice.
Yeah, I think my issue is, it's

340
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:44,800
kind of like an Interstellar.
Matt, Damon reveal where I like,

341
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,100
I know that you see Liam Neeson
early in the film, so you know

342
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:52,200
that he's in the movie.
But like you have time with

343
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,100
Andrew Garfield and with Adam
Driver to get used to them

344
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:59,500
being, you know, Portuguese
priests that argh.

345
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,000
Into Japan.
You spend the whole movie with

346
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,400
them.
Whereas by the time you get back

347
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,500
to Liam Neeson, he like, he's
still Liam Neeson.

348
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,300
You know what I mean?
Like, it'd be like if Tom Hanks

349
00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:13,700
was in the role, he would still
be Tom.

350
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:15,400
Hanks, at that point of the
movie.

351
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,700
Like, anytime you have a famous
actor in a role in my opinion,

352
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:23,800
at least, they need to be in the
entire movie, because I need a

353
00:20:23,808 --> 00:20:26,300
little bit of time to get used
to them.

354
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:29,300
Not just being Matthew
McConaughey.

355
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,600
Or Tom Cruise or, you know,
whomever and so when Liam Neeson

356
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,000
comes back on screen, I'm just
like, oh, he has a special skill

357
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,100
that set of skills and and he's
also a Jedi master.

358
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:44,500
And I, and he's also Aslan, he's
a big lion.

359
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,500
And so I just, I really
struggled with the casting

360
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:50,800
choice of Liam Neeson and all
agree with you.

361
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,000
Like he, he killed it in his
scenes but but yeah, I think

362
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,900
they could have gotten somebody
a little less famous, all right?

363
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,700
So this movie is I needed, like
I said, for best cinematography

364
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,600
the camera work in this movie is
just spectacular, chef's kiss.

365
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,000
I mean like like perfect Rodrigo
update.

366
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,600
So is the, is the
cinematographer here.

367
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:18,900
I mean, the color palette, the
like the the mist and the fog,

368
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:24,000
and then like the Striking kind
of more warm and saturated tones

369
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,300
when they get in that house.
Where Liam Neeson is staying,

370
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,200
just to kind of signify like,
The luxury that he's living in.

371
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,000
I mean, like, it's just it's
really subtle but it is framed.

372
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,000
So every frame in this movie
could be like a painting that

373
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,500
you hang.
It's just beautiful.

374
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:41,900
Yeah.
And every single time they like

375
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:45,600
are getting out of a boat and
like fighting the shore to get

376
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,800
onto land, they just have these
beautiful wide like panoramic

377
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:56,800
shots where you can see how
little the priests are against

378
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,600
this backdrop of Japan.
And It serves to under

379
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:05,000
undergird, the purpose of the
movie, which is to show.

380
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:10,000
Christianity, is so small in the
face of Japanese power.

381
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:14,800
And I and so, I think that the
cinematography, like it lays the

382
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,900
foundation for the message of
the movie in such a beautiful

383
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:21,400
way, and a lot of movies, just
don't do that.

384
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,300
Yeah.
All right, before we go to

385
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:26,700
break, Brad, I want to finish
out talking about the qualities

386
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:30,800
of the filmmaking and the film.
As a film, right?

387
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,900
Like we're going to get into the
themes and we're going to

388
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:34,900
Grapple.
I think a little bit with how do

389
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,400
you how do you separate out?
The filmmaking from what the

390
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,600
film is trying to say.
And I'll say this, I'm not going

391
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,000
to give this movie a 10 out of
10.

392
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,200
I don't know if you are, but I
do think this movie is flawed.

393
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,700
I still really like it.
And I think it gets at a lot of

394
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:51,200
things that that many movies
don't.

395
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:56,300
But if I'm being frank here,
it's a three hour long movie or

396
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:58,800
actually, it's only like 2 hours
and 40 minutes.

397
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,900
It Longer than three hours.
Yes, I don't know if I could

398
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,300
actually pinpoint a scene or
scenes that I think should be

399
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,900
cut completely.
Like it seems like everything

400
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:12,800
has its place here.
It's just it's really long and

401
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,300
it feels really long and it's
kind of repetitive like it's

402
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,600
very cyclical the story that it
tells.

403
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:22,500
And so I feel like it needs to
be shorter, but I can't

404
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:25,600
necessarily offer.
Here's what you should cut.

405
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,400
You know what I mean?
Here's the thing.

406
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:34,600
Bob this movie, Feels really
long and drawn-out and this is

407
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:40,300
one of the only movies where I'm
like, oh it's to emphasize the

408
00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:43,700
struggle and the pain than
Andrew Garfield is going.

409
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,200
Yeah.
Absolute like you like you can't

410
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,800
have this movie be like a tight,
two hours and ten minutes,

411
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,500
right?
Like it needs.

412
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:57,500
The amount of time it has to
breathe life into the suffering

413
00:23:57,500 --> 00:24:01,800
and anguish that is On for
Garfield that he experienced

414
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,700
over a long period of time.
And so I'm I'm with you, it's

415
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,200
slow, there's moments that are
boring.

416
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,000
There's moments where you're
just like, oh man, this is

417
00:24:12,008 --> 00:24:18,100
taking forever to get anywhere,
but weirdly, I'm okay with it.

418
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:21,600
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm not the
person to normally say that, no,

419
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:25,400
but I think weirdly this movie
and Wolf of Wall Street, are

420
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,600
actually really interesting
companion films in scorsese's,

421
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,600
catalog, Because he does the
exact same thing with Wolf of

422
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,500
Wall Street.
Like that is a three hour long

423
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:36,000
movie and it's three hours long
for a reason.

424
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,200
Like it is an exhausting movie
to sit through mmm and it's

425
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,200
because like it is, it is trying
to have the effect on you that

426
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,100
the drugs are having on Jordan
Belfort in that movie and it is

427
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:51,300
this like over-the-top maximal
lized.

428
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:54,900
You know, satire and it's very
similar to like I don't know if

429
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,500
in high school if you ever read
any selections from the book Don

430
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:01,900
Quixote but like Don.
Say was written specifically to

431
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:05,900
parody other really long and
lengthy Hero Stories of the

432
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:09,000
time.
And like, you know, Miguel de

433
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,700
Cervantes like wrote that book
in the most long-winded way just

434
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:18,800
to like on all the stupid
stories, he didn't like it and

435
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,700
it's really funny when you know
that and I think that's what

436
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,600
he's doing with Wolf of Wall
Street and in another way that

437
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,100
is like much more serious.
He's doing that with silence.

438
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:28,500
You're right.
Like, this movie has to be

439
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,700
Shaggy.
And it has to be repetitive and

440
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:34,000
it has to be cyclical and it has
to kind of get annoying and get

441
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,700
on your nerves a little bit.
I think this is the best version

442
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:39,600
of this story.
I still don't think it's like a

443
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,100
perfect, you know?
I mean, like, I just don't know

444
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:44,200
if this movie was ever going to
be a 10 out of 10 even if it

445
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,000
does everything it's supposed to
do.

446
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,500
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think that

447
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:50,500
Scorsese was worried about this
being a 10/10, sure.

448
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,900
Like, I think that he wanted to
honor his Catholic faith with a

449
00:25:55,900 --> 00:26:00,400
really fascinating story in, you
know, The the, I mean, the

450
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,000
history of Catholicism goes
back, 2,000 years, like the?

451
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,500
It's really hard for Americans
to understand because like the

452
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:12,300
oldest things we have are on the
East Coast from like the mid to

453
00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:16,300
late 1600s and and that's it and
even you know, even that's like

454
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:19,700
three hundred plus years ago
with Catholicism, we're talking

455
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:26,700
about 2,000 years of history and
so for him to like take a small

456
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:31,000
little piece of that and examine
it with This near three hour

457
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,600
movie like he, he wasn't trying
to make a perfect movie.

458
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,200
I think he just really was
interested in these big life

459
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,600
questions that that Catholicism
deals with like, why do we

460
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,900
suffer as humans?
What is the point of suffering?

461
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:54,100
Is there a place where suffering
is not healthy?

462
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,800
You know, like, we Christianity
deals with all these questions

463
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,300
about like suffering for your
faith.

464
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,600
At what point does it become
worthless to suffer for your

465
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,000
faith and your actually
suffering for your own Pride?

466
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:09,700
Like he's jumping into all these
questions and I don't think he

467
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:13,300
gave a riff that this, you know,
flopped at the box-office, like

468
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,600
he got to make it and he's
happy, you know, yep.

469
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,400
Yeah, totally agree, man.
All right, well, it's going to

470
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,000
fall down to us.
Brad's answer the questions of

471
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,700
why do we suffer and why are we
here?

472
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:28,200
But in order to answer these
profound questions, we need

473
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,300
whiskey, we need whiskey.
Man, let's let's pivot into

474
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:33,400
trying this Wiseman Rye.
What do you say?

475
00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:37,400
Let's get to it.
Bob lately, I've been finding

476
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,100
myself pulling Whiskey's off the
shelf that are consistently

477
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,700
unique ones.
That tell a good story.

478
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:46,200
Every time I pop the Cork and I
have to say the dock Swensons is

479
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,000
absolutely top tier when it
comes to a fascinating poor.

480
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:54,000
What separates doc Swensons from
the rest of the pack is their

481
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,500
unrelenting?
Goal of always letting the

482
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:58,700
whiskey shine.
No matter what whiskey comes

483
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:00,100
through.
The front door, Doc's.

484
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:03,600
Their team of tasters will blend
and finish it into something

485
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,900
that is deliciously.
Memorable, the beautiful thing

486
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:10,200
about a good blended whiskey is
that often times with proper

487
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,700
care and attention, they turn
into a whiskey.

488
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:15,300
That is truly greater than the
sum of their parts.

489
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,800
Whether you're trying their
alter ego blenders cut or

490
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,200
exploratory series, you are
guaranteed to have a phenomenal

491
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,500
experience with Doc's Woodson's,
whiskey, you can find them

492
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:31,800
online at Doc's, whisky.com,
That's doccs whisky.com.

493
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:43,100
Alright so today we are checking
out the weizmann rye bread.

494
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,800
Before we even get into that, I
have to offer a quick correction

495
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:51,600
to last week's episode, you
know, every now and then we get

496
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,700
on a little bit of a Spiel and
we misspeak apparently I

497
00:28:54,708 --> 00:28:57,200
misspoke pretty heavily last
week, on our Jack, Daniels

498
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,100
bonded episode because I've had
multiple people right into tell

499
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:04,100
me like, hey, you're very wrong
about this witch.

500
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,900
Like no, like I seriously
appreciate and I think the best

501
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,900
distillation.
If haha, distillation love.

502
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:11,600
I see what you did that of what
we got.

503
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,500
Wrong comes from our friend,
Zack Johnston at up rocks.

504
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:18,000
He wrote to us today and he
said, hey guys, I love love.

505
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,700
Love what you're doing to Quick
Corrections for the last

506
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:22,500
episode.
All Tennessee.

507
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:25,700
Whiskey is bourbon.
It's a subcategory both by

508
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:28,600
definition and legally.
So I know that we said, hey

509
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,000
Tennessee, whiskey is not
bourbon.

510
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,300
I said that in part because like
they tried to position In

511
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,700
themselves as not bourbon but
it's important to note legally

512
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:41,400
like by every classification.
It is bourbon, that has

513
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,700
undergone this filtration
process.

514
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:46,900
That you know they talked about
in Tennessee, Zach says the

515
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:49,600
rules are literally copied from
the bourbon ones and the legal

516
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,600
trade category for Tennessee,
whiskey is bourbon, it's the

517
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,700
same thing.
Except for that Lincoln County

518
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,500
process of sugar maple charcoal
filtering that said most bourbon

519
00:29:58,500 --> 00:30:00,300
is also filtered in one way or
another.

520
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,200
So the filtering of Tennessee.
Whiskey doesn't disqualify it

521
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,400
from being a bourbon Also, we
said that Jack Daniels bonded

522
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,500
was a completely new product
that's also not entirely true.

523
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:13,100
It was an international product
that was kind of sold at like,

524
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:16,800
duty-free stores or in airports.
So it's just hitting us shelves

525
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,100
for the first time but they,
they launched it as a Jack,

526
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:25,000
Daniels Travelers, exclusive
bottled and bond which has been

527
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,100
around since 2018.
So Zach and others.

528
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:30,500
Thank you for the correction.
We really appreciate it.

529
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,900
You're just such an arrogant
American Bob to When whiskey

530
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,400
hits the shelves here, it's the
first time it's ever, hit the

531
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,200
shelves, you know, I will say,
I'll take the opportunity to

532
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,600
say, part of what we do here on
the show is we try to present

533
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,200
things as the common person,
right?

534
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,900
And like, every once in a while,
we'll hear from a PR person and

535
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:56,100
they'll send us a sell sheet and
a press release that goes really

536
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,200
heavily heavily in detail on the
Whiskey's that were drinking.

537
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,200
So, we have all the information.
A lot of times, though.

538
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,000
What we do is what anybody at
home would do is We pick

539
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,100
something up at the liquor
store, we type it into Google

540
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:11,100
and we say, like, you know, the
wise men ride review and we look

541
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:14,700
up from these pretty reputable
sources like what they have said

542
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:18,300
about the whiskey and and in
some cases we've gotten a few

543
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:23,300
Corrections over the years that
we only said what we saw in

544
00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:26,300
these reputable sources.
And so sometimes it's just a

545
00:31:26,308 --> 00:31:28,800
breakdown of communication,
we're like hey we didn't know

546
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,700
this about the whiskey but that
also reflects the fact that the

547
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:33,900
average person wouldn't know
this about this whiskey.

548
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,600
Yeah.
I was going to say Bob 100% as

549
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,100
far as the first fact that we
got wrong last week.

550
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,500
I had no idea.
I genuinely thought that

551
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:47,000
Tennessee sour mash whiskey was
not bourbon.

552
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:50,700
So I that's news to me, man.
Alright, so let's transition

553
00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:54,800
into this Wiseman Rye.
This is a new brand from

554
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,100
Kentucky owl.
And I said at the top of the

555
00:31:57,100 --> 00:31:59,400
episode that it's a budget
brand, it's not really a budget

556
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,800
brand.
It's still like, 50 plus

557
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,100
dollars.
I was about to say, right, but

558
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:05,900
it's only budget.
Paired to their normal to

559
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:10,200
Kentucky owl.
So this is a 95% rhyme Ash bill.

560
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,300
But Brad, it is not an mg P
product.

561
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:14,900
This is not originating in
Indiana.

562
00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:20,400
This is a Kentucky distilled
95/5 rhyme Ash bill.

563
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,300
I thought that MGP had like the
trademark on 95% ride like

564
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:30,500
nobody else has to do it.
Well, we shall see it.

565
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:34,800
Clocks in at 100.8 proof and
Brad.

566
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,400
I got to say, man, it has a very
pleasant nose.

567
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:39,800
Yeah.
It's a little bit Dusty.

568
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,800
There's some brown sugar going
on.

569
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,600
It's buttery.
And then like about halfway

570
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,400
through the nosing experience.
Boom, like all that strong ride

571
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,100
that you're looking for.
I'm pretty impressed with this

572
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:55,400
Baba.
I'm not going to go crazy high

573
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,400
but I'll give it an 8 out of 10.
Yeah, I'm The same Brad.

574
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,100
Like this is a very wry heavy,
right on the nose and really

575
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:05,400
herbaceous, lots of mint.
Lots of Dill on this one.

576
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,300
There's a little bit of caramel
kind of underlying it all and

577
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:10,800
every once in a while you'll get
like the barrel notes as well.

578
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:14,800
But for the most part it smells
like walking through a garden

579
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,300
like it's really herbaceous.
I like it a lot.

580
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,600
I'm going to give it an 8 out of
10.

581
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,800
Yeah, and I think as you get
into the actual palette, it

582
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,700
drops off a little bit from the
nose, not too far but for me, I

583
00:33:27,708 --> 00:33:30,400
got like a little bit of a
raisin flavor.

584
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:34,400
A lot of the Rye spice and some
of that brown sugar coming

585
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,200
through and normally Whiskey's
get Okie, kind of on the back

586
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,800
end near the finish.
This one for me, felt okey

587
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,000
almost on the tip of my tongue,
so there's definitely some of

588
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,600
that wood character coming
through here.

589
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:48,600
Yeah, Brett.
I'm with you the, the flavors

590
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,500
interesting.
There's Definitely, like,

591
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,700
there's like a raisin.
E note on this.

592
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:54,900
And it's not a sweet one.
It almost reminds me kind of

593
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:57,000
like prune juice a little bit.
Mmm.

594
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:00,500
I like it, though.
It gets a little bit thin on the

595
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,700
mouth.
Feel for me like the front half

596
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:04,000
of the palate.
It's there.

597
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,800
It's a nice kind of honeyed
sweetness.

598
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,900
You get a lot of that kind of
raw Rye grain.

599
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,600
You get some of that raisin or
prune and I'm gonna go to

600
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,900
swallow, it makes itself known
but it's just a very thin kind

601
00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:17,800
of back.
End of the pallet into the

602
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,100
finish.
I'm going to give this This a 7

603
00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:23,199
out of 10 on the palate.
Yeah, I'm actually right there

604
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,699
with you about.
I'm going to give it a 7 out of

605
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,600
10 as well.
I think that the Finnish picks

606
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,100
up a little bit.
There's a for me that honey

607
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:34,199
really came through on the
Finish after I had had drank it

608
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,900
and swallowed it sat on my on my
palette for little bit.

609
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:39,900
I was like, oh there's a little
bit of honey going on, but the

610
00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:43,600
other parts of the Finish, lots
of Oak, lots of really nice

611
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,900
complex rice spices.
It almost has a little bit of a

612
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:49,800
clove feel to it.
I like Finish.

613
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,600
I'll give it a seven and a half
out of ten.

614
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,500
I can't quite put my finger on
which kind of herb, this reminds

615
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,900
me of most it's not super minty,
but it also doesn't really tip

616
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:02,900
into that Dill side to heavily.
But after you swallow, there is

617
00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:05,700
a lot of, I don't even want to
call it graininess because it's

618
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:09,600
not just Rye grain, but there's
like an unknown

619
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:13,300
undistinguishable.
Like herb.

620
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:14,800
Here are you, are you picking it
up here?

621
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,800
Like what?
What is it that I'm getting on

622
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,700
the finish here?
I honestly don't know.

623
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:21,600
Bob.
I didn't get many herbs on this

624
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,700
at all for me the most unique
note throughout was that kind of

625
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:28,500
Raisin prune juice.
So I'm not really getting the

626
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:31,400
herbaceous feel.
It definitely doesn't tip into

627
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,800
like a like a bitter oakiness
but it kind of goes a little bit

628
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,800
sour and I think that's why it's
reminding me of some sort of

629
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:43,700
herb or plant.
I like this still But I think

630
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:46,600
the Finish is where it kind of
starts to go south a little bit

631
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,000
for me.
I think I'm only going to give

632
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,100
it a six and a half on the
Finish.

633
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,600
Yeah, and that jumps us into
balance, honestly.

634
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,200
It's like a pretty well-balanced
whiskey, like it all around.

635
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,200
And has some interesting
flavors.

636
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,400
It's averagely complex, but like
nothing about it really stands

637
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:06,900
out.
So I think I'm going to give it

638
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:09,600
a 7 out of 10 on balance.
I'm gonna go ahead and give it a

639
00:36:09,607 --> 00:36:12,200
seven point five.
And I will say that this is my

640
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:15,700
second time trying it, I tried
it about two weeks ago, and it

641
00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:18,300
was really delicious.
When I first popped the cork

642
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:22,200
really sweet almost like a very
Bourbon irae and I really really

643
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,400
like that.
Now that it's at for a couple

644
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,800
weeks it has a completely
different character to me and it

645
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,700
may just be me, it may be that I
ate something different today

646
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:32,400
and that my palettes just thrown
off.

647
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,900
But this is a very different
drinking experience today than

648
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:40,700
it was two weeks ago for me.
So, I'm gonna try to walk the

649
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:43,000
line between those two extremes
Variances.

650
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,200
And I'm going to give it a seven
and a half on balance.

651
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:48,700
Yeah and that brings us to our
value Robert.

652
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:52,400
This is a fifty dollar bottle of
whiskey.

653
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,000
As we mentioned before,
definitely a lot cheaper than

654
00:36:56,100 --> 00:37:01,500
other options from Kentucky owl.
But fifty dollars is nothing to

655
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:04,100
sneeze at man.
Yeah, and I actually see that

656
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:07,800
it's selling for like up to $60
in some places and I would not

657
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,000
recommend it at that price but
let's just say, 50 as SRP here.

658
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,700
I don't think it's a terrible
value and Rise are still kind of

659
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:19,400
slept on in the marketplace and
they're not making enough of

660
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,000
them.
I would love to see as much

661
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,000
variance and and you know
availability of different

662
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,300
products in the Rye world as we
do in the bourbon world.

663
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:32,500
So I think I'm more willing to
spend 50 bucks on a ride than I

664
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:35,100
am on a bourbon just because
there's not as many things to

665
00:37:35,107 --> 00:37:39,100
pick up that said, I mean, it's
not a great value.

666
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:42,200
If this was $35, I'd be like, oh
yeah, good value.

667
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:44,000
And fifty.
I'm just going to give it a six

668
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,900
out of ten.
Yeah, I'm right there with you.

669
00:37:45,908 --> 00:37:48,300
Bob six out of ten on the value
it.

670
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:51,000
Hmm, I almost want to give it a
5.

671
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,000
I'll stick with a 6.
It's a decent value but

672
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,500
honestly, it needs to be like a
38 dollar bottle of whiskey.

673
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,000
All right, so Brad, what are you
coming out to?

674
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:06,500
I'm not a 35.5.
I am at a thirty five point

675
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:08,100
zero.
So we're coming out to a

676
00:38:08,107 --> 00:38:14,900
35-point, 25 out of 50 or A 70
and a half out of 100.

677
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:18,400
We are just at that point where
we would normally start

678
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,500
recommending to try or to buy.
I would say, go ahead and give

679
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:24,700
this a try at the bar.
Like, I don't think about for

680
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:26,800
would cost you that much.
It's probably gonna be about 10

681
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,500
bucks for a poor.
It's decent, like it's pretty

682
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:31,400
good.
I just don't know if I would say

683
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,400
pull the trigger on a 50 dollar
bottle of it.

684
00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:37,300
Yeah, I think the thing for me
is it's not unique enough to

685
00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:43,600
make me want to spend $50 or
even 10 Yeah, I don't know.

686
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,000
I don't think I'm going to
recommend by or try.

687
00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:48,600
Wow.
Yeah, I'll recommend try but not

688
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,300
by.
So we have another expression of

689
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:54,300
this coming up next week.
It is the wisemen bourbon.

690
00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:58,300
So we'll give that one a try as
we kick off next week's

691
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:00,800
miniseries.
But Brad, let's get back into

692
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,300
talking about silence.
What do you say suffering?

693
00:39:07,100 --> 00:39:10,300
Today's sponsor is a little bit
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694
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:13,800
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695
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,400
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Once we received it, I am

696
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,000
talking about manscaped.
Now, if you're like me at all,

697
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,500
you probably seen the manscaped
ads and kind of Wonder to

698
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yourself like, do I really need
like some sort of specialty

699
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trimmer to take care of my
downstairs business.

700
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And I've just got to be honest.
I was absolutely wrong there

701
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,400
trimmers called the lawn mower
4.0 and I got to say it is the

702
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:39,600
Rolls-Royce of Tremors.
It's got a ceramic blade.

703
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,300
That reduces grooming mishaps, a
wireless charging base and an

704
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:45,300
awesome flashlight.
That keeps things illuminated

705
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:48,100
while you're working and beyond
all that it's waterproof.

706
00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:51,100
This thing is really changing
the game when it comes to below

707
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:53,700
the belt hygiene.
Now this is just me talking

708
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:57,100
about my experience, but this
trimmer really is Way Beyond

709
00:39:57,100 --> 00:39:59,800
anything I've ever used to keep
things neat.

710
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,500
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711
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:06,400
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712
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:10,100
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713
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free shipping, and you will be
well on your way to hygiene

714
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:20,200
Heaven.
All right, everybody, that was

715
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,000
wise, man.
Rio a whiskey.

716
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,300
That was like, kind of, it was a
solid expression of Rye, but

717
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:28,000
didn't really have anything that
stood out about it, Bob.

718
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,300
Yeah, I feel it, man.
Yeah.

719
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,600
You know, what does have
something that stands out Bob to

720
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:38,500
fax in a faucet to fax it up?
Also Canada's favorite segments?

721
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,400
This is where Brad tries pretty
successfully to stump me.

722
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:45,300
I think I'm sitting at like two
and four on the season.

723
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:48,700
Right now, I have to go back and
check my record but like, not

724
00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:50,400
off to a good start with this
season.

725
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,700
Brad for me.
It yeah, it's a little rough for

726
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:55,900
you, man.
I'm I would say I'm feeling it

727
00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:59,000
for you but I'm just sitting
happy man.

728
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,100
Yeah you're succeeding over here
you're winning at life right

729
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:02,700
now.
I feel great.

730
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,300
All right Brad you're just know
that your failure brings.

731
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,900
Brings me.
Great joy.

732
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,000
You know that's a house that's
like the theme of Silence that

733
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:17,400
my failure gives you life.
Yeah it does.

734
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:21,000
Alright man hit me with these
three supposed facts, one of

735
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,900
which is false facts.
Number one, this is the first

736
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:30,100
film for Adam Driver since
Midnight, Special also released

737
00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:34,800
in 2016 and he lost over 40
pounds for the role of Guru pay.

738
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:40,800
Fact, number two, Daniel
Day-Lewis and Liam Neeson

739
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,000
replaced each other in projects
that were both stuck in

740
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,700
development for years.
Nissan was supposed to play

741
00:41:46,700 --> 00:41:51,000
Abraham, Lincoln and Daniel
Day-Lewis was supposed to play

742
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:54,500
father Ferreira but when nice
and dropped out of Lincoln,

743
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:59,100
Daniel Day-Lewis replaced him
and later Neeson was chosen as

744
00:41:59,100 --> 00:42:04,500
father, Ferreira fax number
three, shinya tsukamoto who

745
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:07,400
played mochi.
Chi chi in the film is a huge

746
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,600
fan of Martin Scorsese and like
immediately applied for the role

747
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,600
when the casting call went out.
But Scorsese was like wildly

748
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,500
confused.
When the application like

749
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:21,000
reached his desk because he was
questioning, if this was really

750
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:26,300
the director of tetsuo the Iron
Man from 1989, that wanted to

751
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:29,200
act in his film.
Wow, I have no idea.

752
00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:34,300
Um, I am pretty sure that Adam
Driver had like three or four

753
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:39,100
movies come out in 2016
Midnight, Special, which is a

754
00:42:39,100 --> 00:42:41,500
pretty good movie and then he
had one that was called

755
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:43,800
Patterson and then he had this
one.

756
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,200
So I know he lost a ton of
weight, I but I don't know if

757
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,400
you're trying to trick me with
like this is his first movie

758
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,100
since midnight special, but
unless you're trying to get me

759
00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:57,800
on a technicality, I'm going to
say one is true too.

760
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,300
I think is also true because I
remember when they were We were

761
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:04,600
developing the Lincoln project
with Liam Neeson and then it,

762
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:06,800
then it pivoted over to Daniel
Day-Lewis.

763
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:10,600
So three seems to me to be the
falsehood, but I have no idea.

764
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,700
Like, I don't know anything
about what you're saying with

765
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:14,600
number three.
So you could be trying to trick

766
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,900
me.
I'm gonna hope that you're not

767
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,900
being super nitpicky about
number one and the and the

768
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:24,100
movies that Adam Driver made in
2016, and I'm going to say three

769
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:26,200
is the falsehood.
Hmm.

770
00:43:26,900 --> 00:43:29,300
Yeah, I'm being a little bit
nitpicky, Bob.

771
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,500
Come on, man.
He he lost over 60 pounds for

772
00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:37,900
the role and this was not his
first movie since drivers.

773
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:40,000
Not dude.
I thought you said you were

774
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,900
never gonna do it like this.
When you when you when you draft

775
00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:46,600
it up, your questions.
I wasn't.

776
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:50,100
I guess I'll say this.
As I was drafting this question.

777
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:54,600
I didn't think I was being super
nitpicky, but do we know the

778
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,900
order they were filmed in like
maybe this was his first movie

779
00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:01,500
since midnight.
I don't know about order was

780
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:06,000
filmed in order of release was
driver since midnight, Patterson

781
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:07,900
and then sigh.
This seems very nitpicky.

782
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:12,300
I will also say that if he lost
over 60 pounds, that also means

783
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:15,700
that he lost over 40 pounds.
He still did lose over for.

784
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:18,000
That's like that.
Question of like how many you

785
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,400
know like how many months have
28 days and it's all of them,

786
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,800
all of them.
Yeah, yeah yeah that's like

787
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,400
somebody asked me the other day.
How do you pronounce the capital

788
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:35,100
of Kentucky is a low level or
Louisville and I told them, it's

789
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:35,900
frankly.
Yeah.

790
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,700
And and he was like, you're the
first person who ever got that.

791
00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:42,700
Everybody else goes wrong.
I, I don't know if I want to

792
00:44:42,707 --> 00:44:45,300
take the L on this man.
Like I knew what the three

793
00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:47,600
movies were, I think we should
arm wrestle.

794
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,900
I think we should leave it up to
our patrons, okay?

795
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:53,400
Let's see what they say.
Yeah, I'm in.

796
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:54,600
All right.
Answer is what are your

797
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,400
thoughts?
What do you think, did Brad?

798
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,500
Did Brad get me or not?
Did I do them dirty?

799
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:03,300
All right, man, let's get back
into talking about silence.

800
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:05,500
I think it is time for us to
kind of dive into some of the

801
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:08,900
deeper themes here.
Brad, I sent you an article

802
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,600
before we recorded this, and it
was in the New York Times a

803
00:45:11,607 --> 00:45:13,500
couple weeks ago, and it was
really beautiful.

804
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:17,100
It was, it was a podcast at the
New York Times does and I was

805
00:45:17,100 --> 00:45:19,800
reading the transcript of this
podcast and it was an interview

806
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,100
with a pastor who had
experienced like significant

807
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:27,800
trauma and burn out as a result
of pastoring through the

808
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,300
pandemic and also Rule the
polluted politicization of

809
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:34,700
America, over the last five
years, six years.

810
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,700
And there's a quote in that
article that I want to read.

811
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:41,300
And I think it's going to kind
of frame my take, on this movie

812
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:44,800
for the rest of the episode.
So in this story, The Pastor's

813
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,800
talking about how they had gone
through.

814
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,300
This big vote for something as a
church.

815
00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:51,500
And they had really done
everything, they could to make

816
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:54,300
it as transparent as possible
and give people a voice and then

817
00:45:54,300 --> 00:45:58,500
the vote went one way and
everybody who disagreed you know

818
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:01,400
like gave the pastor of Each of
crap they got on social media.

819
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,900
They had like a whole group of
people basically saying that

820
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:07,500
like this pastor is a bad leader
and bad-mouthing him publicly

821
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,700
because you know the church
decided democratically to do

822
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:14,200
something and this is what he
says.

823
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,600
He says and I realized at that
moment that being a pastor, is

824
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,400
this really precarious little
spot.

825
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,500
You sit in that people project,
all of their wants and needs and

826
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,100
demands expectations.
Unrealised hopes on to you.

827
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,600
But when you don't meet them,
they're posed with the response

828
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:36,100
either.
They're going to reject you or

829
00:46:36,100 --> 00:46:39,000
ruin, you or abandon you and
Brad.

830
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,800
I think we're at a really
interesting place in the history

831
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,500
of American Christianity, where
you are seeing pastors, drop out

832
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:50,700
of the ministry, like at an
alarming rate, and it's a result

833
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:56,000
of the tension of trying to.
I don't say, please people but

834
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,300
keep, you know, they're their
flock for lack of a better term.

835
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:04,400
Satisfied and engaged, and also
experiencing the trauma and the

836
00:47:04,408 --> 00:47:07,600
burnout of losing people and
having people burn you.

837
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,100
And I watched this movie and
that's not necessarily what's

838
00:47:11,100 --> 00:47:13,600
happening to Andrew, Garfield's
character.

839
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,800
But what really moved me this
time around, wasn't the

840
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:21,300
theological like is he doing the
right thing?

841
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:24,500
Is he actually listening to the
doctrines of the church has

842
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:27,700
historically held is he is he a
heretic?

843
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:30,800
The thing that really moved me.
He was watching this through the

844
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,900
lens of a pastor because I think
that this movie might be the

845
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:37,400
best depiction I've ever seen of
what it means to be.

846
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:43,800
A pastor, like, Andrew Garfield
is wrestling on The Daily and

847
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,700
this movie.
Like, do I heed the words that I

848
00:47:48,700 --> 00:47:52,000
know to be true in scripture
where Jesus says, like, if you

849
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,500
reject me before people, I will
reject you and do I hold people

850
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:59,400
to that standard even if it
means they're going to die.

851
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,700
I make them go to their death
and then when it's turned on him

852
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:07,600
and he, he is confronted with.
Like, if you don't do this

853
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,500
thing, if you don't apostatize,
we will kill all these other

854
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:15,200
people who are in your care and
they will be innocent victims of

855
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,600
your stubbornness.
That's kind of how its framed to

856
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,900
him.
And his question is like, how do

857
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,500
I care for the people who are
under my care, under my

858
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:28,100
supervision, as a pastor?
When you look at the movie

859
00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:30,600
through that lens, whether or
not Not you agree with what

860
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,300
Andrew Garfield did.
I really think it helps people

861
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:39,300
understand the position that
clergy of all faiths.

862
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:43,200
I would say in America and
throughout the world are in.

863
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,900
Yeah.
I mean my first thought coming

864
00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:50,600
off of that Bob, is that like
Being a pastor is really tough.

865
00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:55,200
Yeah, today's society.
Like yes, I this might be

866
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,700
facetious but like it makes me
think about how it seems like

867
00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:03,900
every year at least.
Once a year, some major news

868
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:07,500
Outlet will like right along
article about how evil the

869
00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:10,400
Catholic churches.
And there's part of me that

870
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:15,100
reads those things and I'm like
do you not like understand the

871
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:18,200
Catholic Church them, not
changing their position.

872
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,400
Isn't anything new right?
And in the face of like moments,

873
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,600
like that, I think about how
hard it has to be to be a

874
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,500
pastor, or a priest or, you
know, some sort of minister in

875
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:34,800
today's world where it's like,
no, we've held these tenants for

876
00:49:34,900 --> 00:49:38,900
hundreds of years.
And yet now, they are being

877
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:42,600
completely castigated for them.
And then in the midst of that,

878
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,600
where the culture is castigating
them.

879
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:50,700
Their own flock has such wildly
diverse opinions about how they

880
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:54,900
ought to be pastoring and
ministering to the congregation

881
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,400
that it is just a recipe for
burn out there.

882
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,800
There is massive immense
pressure from the outside facing

883
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,800
gargantuan pressure from the
inside as well.

884
00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:10,000
And you're right.
Like you see that in Andrew

885
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,900
Garfield man.
The the way that the the

886
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:17,400
Japanese villagers who are
Christian Respond to them is

887
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,800
like an overwhelming amount of
pressure.

888
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,700
Like we like we haven't been
able to properly practice the

889
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:27,000
faith in decades because no
priests have been here.

890
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,100
And now we're able to have our
sins forgiven and now we're able

891
00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:33,300
to do all these things.
And at first you see Garfield

892
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:36,900
like he's like all about it and
energized by it.

893
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,700
But by the end of the film, he
has gone from being energized by

894
00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:45,600
the cool parts of being a
minister 20 like the Suffering

895
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,100
is brutal and I don't know if I
can handle this.

896
00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:50,700
Yeah.
And I mean, like, Andrew

897
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:53,500
Garfield doesn't have to worry
about the, the kind of trivial

898
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:56,100
things that we have to deal with
in the American Church of like,

899
00:50:56,100 --> 00:50:59,500
am I satisfying people's kind of
consumer mentality.

900
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,600
But, but in his, you know, in
what he's dealing with its

901
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,900
Amplified, it's turned up to 11
because he is he's dealing with

902
00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:11,600
life and death literally.
And like what is my job here?

903
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,100
As a, pastor is my job to make
sure people are following the

904
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:18,500
but I don't see the letter of
the law but like, you know,

905
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:24,300
Orthodoxy and right beliefs or
is my job to do, what I can to

906
00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:28,000
protect my flock and that's
ultimately, like, what the

907
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,600
ending of this movie is about
when he is confronted with the

908
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,200
fumi a with like this, very
crudely carved image of Jesus

909
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:40,600
and asked step on it as a way of
like, stomping on Jesus and what

910
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,900
Scorsese and what endow the the
author of the book has happened

911
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:48,400
at the Dove of the story is that
he hears the voice of Jesus

912
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,800
Calling to him and telling him
to Stomp.

913
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,800
Like This is what I came here
for.

914
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,800
I came to be stomped on by
people like it's okay.

915
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,500
Go ahead and do it.
And again, I'm not saying I

916
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:02,000
agree with that, but I think
what Scorsese does.

917
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,600
So brilliantly here is he
doesn't just make the question

918
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,400
of like, is it right?
Or not to stomp on Jesus.

919
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,700
A question, but he puts you in
the emotional state of Andrew

920
00:52:12,700 --> 00:52:14,700
Garfield, where it's like.
All right.

921
00:52:14,700 --> 00:52:17,800
Well, The alternative is like if
I don't stop and I stand on my

922
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,600
principles, then I really am
responsible for the death of

923
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,100
other people.
And I love that there is,

924
00:52:24,300 --> 00:52:27,700
there's just no easy answer to
any of these questions and they

925
00:52:27,707 --> 00:52:30,700
continued even after that
climactic moment in the movie.

926
00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:34,500
No, there's really no easy
answers to it.

927
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:39,500
I will say to kind of jump away
from the the moral quandary.

928
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:40,600
We're talking about for a
second.

929
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:45,600
I actually think that this movie
was not graphic enough Tough.

930
00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:50,100
Hmm, there's part of me that
like from the time Andrew

931
00:52:50,100 --> 00:52:53,700
Garfield has captured.
The most graphic thing that they

932
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:58,200
show in the movie is when the
waves are overtaking, the three

933
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,400
Christians that they kill, you
know, who were the leaders of

934
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:06,900
the church in that in that town
and outside of that, I like I

935
00:53:06,908 --> 00:53:10,400
don't know if this just sounds
bad or not, but it doesn't feel

936
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:15,100
like Garfield's crisis of faith
is warranted by what you see.

937
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,500
On screen.
Hmm, and I don't know if that's

938
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:21,800
just me.
Maybe I'm desensitized by other

939
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,300
more violent movies, but there's
a part of me that feels like,

940
00:53:25,300 --> 00:53:30,700
Scorsese focused so much of the
camera work simply on Garfield

941
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:35,100
that you didn't get the sense of
the torture that the Japanese

942
00:53:35,100 --> 00:53:37,900
were putting these Christians
through one thing that I really

943
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:42,700
did like though is that Scorsese
allows the camera and the scenes

944
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:46,500
in the pacing to be so patient
that It kind of demonstrates

945
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:50,100
that, you know, throughout
church history, like we really

946
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:54,300
valorize the martyrs, right?
Like we really hold them up as

947
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:56,700
like, wow, they got eaten by
lions and like what an

948
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:58,200
incredible thing to do for your
faith.

949
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,600
But like I think the question
Scorsese asks, is all right,

950
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,500
what would it look like to
actually have to watch somebody

951
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:06,800
to eaten by a lion?
Like it's not, it's not a simple

952
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,000
thing, it's not a quick thing.
There is no there's no dignity

953
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,900
to it and and Garfield's
character talks about how that

954
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:17,200
guy hung on that.
That cross in the middle of the

955
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,200
sea for like five days, until he
basically just starve to death.

956
00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:25,400
And it wasn't a quick thing and
as much as he wanted it to be a

957
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,900
quick thing, it wasn't.
And I think because of that like

958
00:54:28,900 --> 00:54:32,000
no, there's not that much kind
of sudden jarring violence in

959
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:38,400
this movie but because you see
how undignified some of these

960
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,200
deaths are I do think it.
It still has the impact that

961
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,000
that Scorsese intends it to
Well, that that kind of brings

962
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,100
me to my second point.
I feel like the big problem with

963
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:54,900
that I have with this movie, is
like, how hard Scorsese veers

964
00:54:54,900 --> 00:55:00,700
into the realm of gaslighting,
where I like the way he

965
00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:05,600
portrays, the Japanese is that
they are just so manipulative.

966
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,900
And they literally just keep
telling Andrew Garfield.

967
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:12,000
Like this is your fault that
they're dying.

968
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,100
This is your fault that they're
suffering.

969
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,100
And the whole time, I'm just
sitting there in as an audience,

970
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:22,300
like saying like, no, no, you're
the one hanging, these people

971
00:55:22,300 --> 00:55:24,900
upside down and cutting a little
thing in their ears, so that

972
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:26,700
they don't pass out too quickly,
right?

973
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:28,600
Right.
You're the one, putting them out

974
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:33,300
in the ocean to die, like,
there's no suffering that Andrew

975
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:37,700
Garfield is causing to these
people like you are causing all

976
00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:40,700
the suffering.
And for me, that's just, I don't

977
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:42,800
know.
It took away from the impact of

978
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,700
the movie for me.
Did you feel like there's

979
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:47,800
anything there?
No, not so much because I feel

980
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,800
like every every time you can
kind of come to a simplistic,

981
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,100
not want to call what you're
saying simplistic.

982
00:55:53,100 --> 00:55:56,000
But like to an easy answer,
there's something else in the

983
00:55:56,008 --> 00:55:57,700
movie that counters it.
You know what I mean?

984
00:55:57,700 --> 00:55:59,600
That that makes it more
complicated.

985
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,600
And for me that thing is when he
has that face-to-face with Liam

986
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,300
Neeson and Liam Neeson is
basically saying, you know, you

987
00:56:06,300 --> 00:56:09,400
think, you think that I'm a
heretic and you think that I'm a

988
00:56:09,408 --> 00:56:13,100
bad person but like how do you
know that what you're trying to

989
00:56:13,107 --> 00:56:17,000
teach these people is even
Taking root and he walks through

990
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:20,800
kind of the like translational
issues that from the very

991
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,900
beginning.
Like, we tried to teach people

992
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:24,900
what the Son of God meant.
And I thought we were talking

993
00:56:24,900 --> 00:56:27,400
about the Sun in the sky.
And then he says, like, I think

994
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,900
he'd goes into like, do you even
know what their word for God

995
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:32,300
really means, and it's something
you remember what it is.

996
00:56:32,300 --> 00:56:35,100
Like I can't, I don't remember
this, but it, yeah, but it's

997
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:38,100
like something really trivial.
And he's basically saying, like

998
00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:40,300
these people were never
worshiping God.

999
00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:43,500
They were worshiping you if you
want to do the right thing, as

1000
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:47,200
somebody, who is an Object of
their devotion then protect them

1001
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,400
and that's where I'm like, oh my
gosh, this is not even a

1002
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,800
question of right doctor in a
wrong doctor and this is a

1003
00:56:52,808 --> 00:56:56,200
question, like if Liam Neeson's
character is actually right

1004
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,100
about this, what would I do in
that situation?

1005
00:56:59,500 --> 00:57:03,000
And I think that's like, that's
the thing that that really, that

1006
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,900
I love about this movie, and
Scorsese like, goes into in

1007
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:08,900
depth, in this, on, in
interviews about the movie.

1008
00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:12,400
He talks about how like, his
faith has evolved quote-unquote.

1009
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,200
And a lot of times, I just
means, like, I don't believe

1010
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,800
what I To believe I want to find
something that matches, what I

1011
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,800
think should be the case.
But for me at least what I will

1012
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:26,900
say is this, it is really easy
to sit in a seminary classroom

1013
00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:30,700
and learn about like what the
right thing to believe is to

1014
00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:33,900
make a system work because if
one piece of the system falls

1015
00:57:33,900 --> 00:57:37,400
apart the rest of the system
doesn't work and so you know

1016
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,700
it's really really easy to be
like oh my gosh that person's a

1017
00:57:40,707 --> 00:57:43,100
heretic that person doesn't
believe the right thing.

1018
00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:44,400
I can't believe they're leading
people astray.

1019
00:57:44,500 --> 00:57:47,600
Tray with this this and this
thought and then you get out

1020
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,700
into the real world of like
ministering to people and you

1021
00:57:50,700 --> 00:57:53,700
realize I have not necessarily
cracked.

1022
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:58,700
Open my Systematic, Theology
book in like five years because

1023
00:57:58,700 --> 00:58:02,700
a no one is asking me questions
that are specifically related to

1024
00:58:02,700 --> 00:58:05,700
what my thoughts on like Martin
Luther and the response to the

1025
00:58:05,700 --> 00:58:10,000
Reformation is, but be like,
when you start dealing with the

1026
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,800
intricacies and the complexities
of the real world, it's just not

1027
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,600
as black and white.
Eat as it is, when you're in

1028
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,800
college.
And I think this is like a

1029
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:23,500
really good demonstration of me
sitting in my like marble Tower,

1030
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:27,200
scoffing at all, the feet on the
ground who aren't doing it the

1031
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,100
right way.
And then me getting out in the

1032
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:31,900
real world and being like, Oh
yeah, there's a lot tougher

1033
00:58:31,900 --> 00:58:34,200
decision to play that.
I wasn't factoring it.

1034
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,300
See I, I just, I really struggle
with that because for me, the

1035
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:44,000
scene with Liam Neeson was One
of the least convincing scenes

1036
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,600
of the movie, because he talks
about how the faith hasn't taken

1037
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,400
Rouge that Japan is a swamp and
it, you know, it, nothing grows

1038
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:57,300
here and I'm like, well, if
that's the kind of the message

1039
00:58:57,300 --> 00:58:59,700
that you're shooting for, then
why did you show the

1040
00:58:59,700 --> 00:59:03,300
faithfulness of the villagers
and The outlying Villages of the

1041
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:06,400
country?
Because in my opinion, they are

1042
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:12,900
clearly not worshiping group a
and and Rodriguez Their faith

1043
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:16,600
would have dissipated long ago
if they were just worshiping a

1044
00:59:16,607 --> 00:59:20,100
preseason.
Like I have every faith is real

1045
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:26,300
and genuine And so for me like
the position of the Japanese

1046
00:59:26,300 --> 00:59:32,900
government and of Liam Neeson,
just feels patently wrong.

1047
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,700
Like it is not true.
It feels like no they just

1048
00:59:36,700 --> 00:59:40,500
didn't like Christianity so they
are trying to stomp it out for

1049
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:43,800
me.
I never once in the movie got a

1050
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:48,000
sense of moral quandary of like
well maybe the Japanese are

1051
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,200
right and it's a swamp and it
can't grow.

1052
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,700
It's like no it very obvious.
Grew.

1053
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,800
Yeah, and you stomped it out.
Oh, I agree.

1054
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:58,100
I think that.
But what I, what I really like

1055
00:59:58,100 --> 01:00:00,500
about it though.
Is that do you remember when we

1056
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:03,600
did do the right thing?
And a lot of what we said was

1057
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,700
like, nobody really does the
right thing and that movie.

1058
01:00:07,300 --> 01:00:10,900
Hmm, it's kind of the same way
here, except almost the inverse,

1059
01:00:10,900 --> 01:00:15,300
where I think everybody has some
bit of Truth to what they're

1060
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:21,000
saying, but I don't completely,
I can't trust anyone 100% in

1061
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,200
this movie.
And when it comes to Garfield's

1062
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,200
character, like at the end of
the movie, he apostatize has and

1063
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,300
you're like, oh man, he did it.
And at first, you're like, well,

1064
01:00:29,300 --> 01:00:31,900
at least I kind of understand
why he did it and then they go

1065
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:33,600
into this really extended
epilogue.

1066
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,900
And to your point about
Scorsese, the dude knows how to

1067
01:00:37,900 --> 01:00:41,400
do movie endings.
The last 25 minutes of this

1068
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,700
movie or the best part.
They're like the exact opposite

1069
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:46,500
of the Return of the King
ending.

1070
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,200
It's like the same.
It keeps going on and on and on,

1071
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,000
but it just gets more and more
depressing.

1072
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,600
Yeah, and if more and more happy
and more gray, like there's more

1073
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,100
questions that arise and the
great thing about it is he

1074
01:00:58,100 --> 01:01:01,000
doesn't dwell on any one of
these scenes long enough for you

1075
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,200
to really like grapple with
them, he's just like and then

1076
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,200
this happened and that
complicates things, and then

1077
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,000
this happened and this
complicates things and you find

1078
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,100
out that Andrew Garfield for,
you know, decades and decades

1079
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,100
basically ends up working for
the Japanese government.

1080
01:01:14,100 --> 01:01:20,600
Alongside Liam Neeson in like,
sniffing out Christian stuff and

1081
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,900
like, throwing other Christians.
Under the bus.

1082
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:25,800
But then every once in a while,
you'll see that, he kind of

1083
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,900
still believes this.
And he's smuggling and artifact

1084
01:01:28,900 --> 01:01:32,900
here, they're too kitschy, gyro
or to the Japanese church.

1085
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,900
Is he still a Christian?
Is he not still accretion it?

1086
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:38,400
Does he think that this is the
best way to be a Christian by

1087
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,800
like publicly denying and then
working in the background.

1088
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:44,500
But but then he'll do something
that seems so egregious that

1089
01:01:44,500 --> 01:01:46,500
you're like he can't really be a
Christian.

1090
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:51,400
And man, I like, I don't agree
with most of what Andrew

1091
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,600
Garfield doesn't.
The end of this movie, but the

1092
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,900
questions still remain.
Like, what is a Christian?

1093
01:01:56,900 --> 01:02:00,600
Can you be a Christian while
publicly denying that you're a

1094
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:01,800
Christian?
It goes.

1095
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,700
It goes all the way back to the
question of Peter denying Jesus,

1096
01:02:04,707 --> 01:02:07,700
three times.
Do you have to be reconciled?

1097
01:02:07,700 --> 01:02:09,600
Do you have to be restored
publicly?

1098
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,400
Can you with your final breath?
Like Andrew Garfield, like still

1099
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,400
be clinging to that cross and be
considered a Christian.

1100
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:22,100
It's just, it's such a good
ending to this movie and it's Is

1101
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:23,800
that will never really be able
to answer.

1102
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:29,000
Yeah, but even with Peter man,
he said, like Satan has asked to

1103
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,800
sift, you like wheat?
But when you have turned back,

1104
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,100
strengthen your brothers and
like Peter spends the rest of

1105
01:02:35,107 --> 01:02:37,300
his life.
Strengthening the brother.

1106
01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:38,700
Yeah.
And I'm pretty sure he's the one

1107
01:02:38,700 --> 01:02:42,100
that gets as it, is it him or
John, that gets crucified upside

1108
01:02:42,100 --> 01:02:44,200
down.
That was John, no, no, John, no,

1109
01:02:44,300 --> 01:02:46,700
that was Peter.
John Dies of old age on Patmos

1110
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,000
that?
That's right.

1111
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:49,700
Yeah.
So like I don't know.

1112
01:02:49,700 --> 01:02:52,200
I really struggle with the
ending of this film.

1113
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:57,500
I, to me, it feels Feels like
maybe that maybe this is putting

1114
01:02:57,500 --> 01:02:59,500
something on Scorsese.
That's not there.

1115
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,600
But it feels like the last 20
minutes of this movie are where

1116
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,900
Scorsese feels like he's at in
his life.

1117
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,400
I agree.
It's against definitely like

1118
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,100
it's almost like wish
fulfillment.

1119
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,400
Hmm.
You know I mean and and I found

1120
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,700
out in researching it to that
like that last moment of

1121
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,000
Rodriguez holding on to that
cross in the barrel that's being

1122
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,300
burnt.
That's a Scorsese insertion like

1123
01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:25,700
that's not The original text at
all.

1124
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:29,700
Yeah, and I think it's very
telling that Scorsese still

1125
01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:33,900
wants to be able to believe that
Rodriguez is a Christian and

1126
01:03:33,900 --> 01:03:36,200
that he can hold these things
near and dear to his heart while

1127
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,600
publicly denying them and you're
a hundred percent, right?

1128
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:41,900
I think it says more about
Scorsese than it says about even

1129
01:03:41,900 --> 01:03:44,200
the characters in the movie.
Yeah.

1130
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,600
And that, that's the struggle I
have with this film.

1131
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,300
I don't, I don't know.
I've been reading c.s.

1132
01:03:50,300 --> 01:03:53,800
Lewis lately and reading a set
of his essays.

1133
01:03:54,100 --> 01:03:55,500
In a book called the way to
glory.

1134
01:03:55,500 --> 01:04:00,600
And in this one essay.
Well, I mean, it was a speech

1135
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,300
that he gave in the middle of
World War Two.

1136
01:04:03,300 --> 01:04:07,700
He talks about he's talking to a
bunch of pacifists about why he

1137
01:04:07,700 --> 01:04:12,200
see us Louis is not a pacifist
and he talks about how in his

1138
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:16,100
opinion, like one of the biggest
struggles with the pacifist

1139
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:22,800
position is that the greatest
evil is suffering and death and

1140
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:27,000
he just can't find In proof that
suffering and death are truly

1141
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,400
the greatest evil, a person can
experience.

1142
01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:37,600
And I feel like this movie is
Holy is completely based on this

1143
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,400
question of like is suffering
and death.

1144
01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:46,700
The worst thing that can happen
to a person actually it?

1145
01:04:46,700 --> 01:04:49,900
Sorry, let me rephrase that it's
not based around that question.

1146
01:04:49,900 --> 01:04:53,400
It assumes that as the
underlying principle that

1147
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,100
suffering and death is the worst
thing that can happen to a

1148
01:04:56,100 --> 01:05:00,100
person therefore you should
apostatize to prevent suffering

1149
01:05:00,100 --> 01:05:02,200
and death from happening to
other people.

1150
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,200
And like, Louis would just
disagree flat-out disagree with

1151
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,400
that.
And I, you know, I am nowhere

1152
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,900
near the intellectual giant that
CS Lewis's.

1153
01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:17,900
So I don't know man.
I like I think this movie is

1154
01:05:17,900 --> 01:05:21,700
fascinating but I'm wondering if
the very premise of the movie is

1155
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:23,800
a little bit flawed.
I mean, I do think that it's

1156
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,200
important.
And for us to acknowledge and

1157
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,000
like, obviously, if you've
listened this long in the

1158
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,200
podcast, you know, that like
Brad and I obviously went to

1159
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,600
Seminary, we are both in some
capacity, like, pastoring people

1160
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,700
and we believe this stuff.
Like, we are Christians reading

1161
01:05:36,700 --> 01:05:39,400
reviews of this movie from
atheists, is I think really

1162
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,300
enlightening to because like to
them, they're like, this is a

1163
01:05:42,300 --> 01:05:43,900
no-brainer.
Why wouldn't you just step on

1164
01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:46,300
the thing?
And so, it really does kind of

1165
01:05:46,300 --> 01:05:48,400
depend on the lens that you're
looking at this movie from.

1166
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:51,600
And I would just ask that anyone
who's hearing our take on it,

1167
01:05:51,900 --> 01:05:54,800
understand that are the world
view that We're coming from is

1168
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,500
like, hey, we believe this stuff
we're actually in the same boat

1169
01:05:57,500 --> 01:05:59,700
as the, the missionaries in this
movie.

1170
01:06:00,100 --> 01:06:03,000
And so, the struggle for us is
the same struggle that they're

1171
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,600
going through and when you look
at it as an outside Observer and

1172
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,900
you're like, oh yeah, this is a
no-brainer, you know, I think it

1173
01:06:08,900 --> 01:06:10,900
simplifies it a little bit too
much, man.

1174
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,300
Bob, you know what we should
have done, what's that?

1175
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,200
We should have found a token
atheist to have on the podcast

1176
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:23,300
so can a man that's what we
should have done to get the, get

1177
01:06:23,300 --> 01:06:25,900
the opposed View on silence
Brad.

1178
01:06:25,900 --> 01:06:27,600
I think it's time for final
scores, man.

1179
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:32,000
This is this is a hard movie to
rate and it gets back to like

1180
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:35,800
the how do you capture
Christianity on film discussion

1181
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,000
that we keep kind of circling
and we still haven't done that

1182
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,300
bonus episode yet.
But Hmm, this isn't like a God's

1183
01:06:41,300 --> 01:06:45,800
Not Dead which is just a crap
movie like but it's also very

1184
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,900
different to me than, like,
Passion of the Christ.

1185
01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:51,100
Which I think now, with almost
20 years of distance, I can look

1186
01:06:51,100 --> 01:06:54,500
back on Passion of the Christ
and be like, this was is used as

1187
01:06:54,500 --> 01:06:58,200
a pretty important tool for
people to see like violence and

1188
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,300
like what can happen to the
human body?

1189
01:07:00,300 --> 01:07:02,200
When it's tortured.
And when you believe that,

1190
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:05,600
that's Jesus, it's a very
effective tool but also like

1191
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,100
it's not really a great movie.
And I think I'm like, okay

1192
01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:11,000
saying that now, this is
different than that because I

1193
01:07:11,008 --> 01:07:14,000
think this is just a much better
made film.

1194
01:07:14,100 --> 01:07:16,900
And it asks more challenging
questions than Passion of the

1195
01:07:16,900 --> 01:07:21,000
Christ did, but it falls into
that same boat, where it's like

1196
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:25,400
we do believe this stuff.
So like me, Can you evaluate the

1197
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:28,700
movie as a film?
And I think as a film I'm gonna

1198
01:07:28,700 --> 01:07:30,200
give it an eight and a half out
of ten.

1199
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,800
It's not a perfect movie but it
has a lot going for it and

1200
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,600
obviously like we have been very
affected by it.

1201
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,300
I'll just flat out say like as
Mochi.

1202
01:07:39,300 --> 01:07:42,900
She died in the waves.
I was weeping.

1203
01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:46,400
Hmm.
Like I don't think I could watch

1204
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:52,700
this movie without weeping as I
look at his sacrifice for, you

1205
01:07:52,700 --> 01:07:57,000
know, our lord Jesus.
Disgraced like that gets me but

1206
01:07:57,100 --> 01:07:59,400
you're right.
Bobbi gets me because I believe

1207
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,700
in this stuff right?
Because I'm down with it.

1208
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,200
Yeah I found a really cool
little tidbit that after

1209
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,100
watching this movie Terrence
Malick the director of the tree

1210
01:08:08,100 --> 01:08:12,000
of life also a very you know
Christian heavy themed movie

1211
01:08:12,500 --> 01:08:16,200
wrote a letter to Scorsese and
he said this in his letter he

1212
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:21,100
said, one comes away, wondering
what our task in life is what is

1213
01:08:21,100 --> 01:08:24,500
it that Christ asks of us.
And what Shapes.

1214
01:08:24,500 --> 01:08:26,500
Will he assumed in these dark
times?

1215
01:08:26,500 --> 01:08:29,899
Like those of old, he might
appear as you show.

1216
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:33,600
Even in those who opposed the
faith or betray it, like, Judas

1217
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:38,100
or Pilot, his love seems to be
wider for it and, you know, he's

1218
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:41,399
calling back to the character of
key gyro, but I just love that.

1219
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:43,300
Malik.
Is he even struggling with?

1220
01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:47,399
Like I saw this movie, I don't
know what to make, like, what is

1221
01:08:47,399 --> 01:08:50,300
Jesus actually asking us to do?
And that's, I mean, that's,

1222
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,700
that's the, the point of the
movie.

1223
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:54,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

1224
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,800
What would Christ have for us in
this broken world?

1225
01:08:58,100 --> 01:09:01,600
And that is that's a really hard
question.

1226
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:06,100
Bob as you said like jumping
into the real world of

1227
01:09:06,100 --> 01:09:08,600
ministering to people and caring
for them.

1228
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,700
And in times of struggle and
darkness and Brokenness.

1229
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:15,100
The question, like, what does
Jesus have for me in this?

1230
01:09:15,100 --> 01:09:18,899
What would he have me?
Do who, what kind of a person,

1231
01:09:18,899 --> 01:09:21,399
would he have me?
Be, that's a really hard

1232
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:23,600
question and it's a really
important one.

1233
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:28,200
The With it for anyone who
considers themselves a follower

1234
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,899
of Christ.
I think, as far as the Movie

1235
01:09:31,899 --> 01:09:36,399
silence goes, I think I'll give
it an 8 out of 10 Bob.

1236
01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:40,700
There's a lot of issues that I
have with it Beyond, just the

1237
01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:46,500
philosophical stuff going on.
It is wildly slow-paced and I

1238
01:09:46,500 --> 01:09:48,899
like that, it does that, but
it's still slow and I'm gonna

1239
01:09:48,899 --> 01:09:53,500
dock it a little bit for that.
I wish Andrew, I wish that Adam

1240
01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:55,100
Driver.
Who was the lead?

1241
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,800
I wish that they had good
accents, that there's

1242
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,300
definitely.
There's definitely a few things

1243
01:10:01,300 --> 01:10:06,100
going on here, but overall, it's
still Scorsese, there's still,

1244
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,600
he just man.
Scorsese is just like the master

1245
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,700
of the mic drop, like, he hits
the end of his movie drops.

1246
01:10:13,700 --> 01:10:17,300
The mic and is like, yeah, think
about that, for the next three

1247
01:10:17,300 --> 01:10:19,800
months, right?
Like he does that with every

1248
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,600
movie, he does it with silence.
So it's still an incredibly

1249
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:28,200
well, Film, just not, not my
favorite Scorsese, but still

1250
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:30,200
really good.
But we want to know what you

1251
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,500
think you've listened to us.
Talk about it for over an hour

1252
01:10:32,500 --> 01:10:34,600
now.
So, if you've seen silence, we

1253
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,900
want to hear your opinion on it.
You can find us on social media

1254
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:42,300
on Facebook, Twitter or
Instagram at film whiskey, or

1255
01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:44,400
you can jump on our Discord.
We are on there.

1256
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:49,400
Every single day, talking about
movies, whiskey cigars, all

1257
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,300
sorts of things you can join us
by clicking the link at the end

1258
01:10:53,300 --> 01:10:57,400
of Every one of our show notes.
All right, next week we are like

1259
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,800
really steering out of this.
Kind of conversation, and we're

1260
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,900
steering into the world of
filmmaker Edgar Wright.

1261
01:11:03,100 --> 01:11:05,800
We're going to do three movies
by him kicking off with his

1262
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,700
2004, classic Shaun of the Dead,
Brad.

1263
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:12,000
I'm really excited for that.
One, cannot wait to talk about

1264
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,800
that movie but until then, I'm
Bob book, I'm Brad G and we'll

1265
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:17,700
see you next time.