Oscar Nominations Reactions and American Single Malt: What to Know

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On today's Film and Whiskey, I'm
talking with our friend Daniel

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Zwayo about the Oscar
nominations.

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Then we're thrown over to an old
friend in Old Line Spirits to

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talk about what it means that
American Single Malt is now an

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officially designated category
of whiskey.

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That's all ahead on the Film and
Whiskey podcast.

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Well, hey everybody, welcome
into another special bonus

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episode of Film and Whiskey.
I'm Bob Book and I am flying

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solo this evening on Oscar
nominations night.

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Folks, if you pay any attention
to the Oscars, you know that

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this is about the second biggest
day in the Oscars season.

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The nominations have been
announced.

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They were delayed by about a
week from the fires that are

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raging through LA, but we
finally got the Oscar

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nominations.
There are definitely some

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surprises.
There are definitely some

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omissions.
I would say I don't like using

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the word snub.
And then maybe I'll get into

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that with our guest today.
But we're bringing back on our

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resident Oscar critic, Indiana
Pacers fan and current like 5th

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place member of our film and
whiskey fantasy basketball.

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Third, Oh, third.
I'm sorry, third place in

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fantasy basketball.
It's our friend.

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Brad, right now?
Oh, perfect.

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That's what everybody wants.
It's our friend Daniel Zwayo.

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Daniel, how are you?
I'm good.

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How about yourself?
Sorry for the interruption.

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You're so No, no, no.
I listen, I need to I need to do

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fact checking for my intros.
I was going off fives and gut

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feel and it's important that we
get the the records and and

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draft order straight for our
fantasy basketball for next

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year.
So thank you for the correction.

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Daniel's joining us this
evening, A, because he's a great

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guy and I like talking to him.
But B, he just wrote a piece for

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rodgerebert.com today about the
Oscar nominations.

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He's been writing pieces for the
last couple weeks leading up to

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the Oscars.
He is our resident Oscar critic

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and he knows a lot more about
this stuff than I do.

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So we're going to pick Daniel's
brain a little bit.

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I guess.
Let's start with this, Daniel,

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looking back on 2024 as a movie
year, and I don't want to hear

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you just say the movie critic
thing, which is like every year

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is a good year for movies if you
know where to look.

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Was 24 a good year for movies or
not?

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Yes, because every year is a
good year for movies.

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It's it's 2024 was not as good
of the year as 2023, which is

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the most obvious comparison
because those are the last two

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years. 2023, I think
legitimately had the single

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best, best picture lineup we've
probably ever had, or at the

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very least the best since 1975.
So it's easy to look at 2024 and

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say, well, the previous year was
better.

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And yeah, that's true, but
that's because the previous year

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was abnormally great.
That's fair.

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That's fair.
And I do think that it's a

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little bit unfair for me to be
comparing it so much to 23 when

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you have films like Oppenheimer,
like The Holdovers, like Anatomy

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of a Fall or Past Lives.
But I just couldn't help but

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think through most of my movie
viewings this year.

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Like, damn, if The Holdovers had
just held out for one more year,

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it could have absolutely
dominated everything this year.

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It, it feels like a year that
was ripe for something to come

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along and really assert itself.
And I would say pretty much

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every movie that's been in
contention this year is either

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too divisive to get that
consensus or the consensus

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around it has just been that
it's like an 8 out of 10 and not

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anything better than that.
I I just don't feel like we had

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anything breakthrough as a as an
all timer movie this year.

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Well, I have a question about
what you just said.

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And this could be that it's not
an either or it could be a both

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things are true at once.
But I wonder, are the films

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actually divisive, or have
people just gotten more divisive

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in their reactions to things?
Yeah, I, you know what, I think

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this year is probably a banner
year for Film Twitter steering

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Award season more than maybe any
other year.

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And I think my example, this is
complete conjecture and

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conspiracy theory now, but when
when Dune Part 2 came out early

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in the year, you know, end of
February, early March, I think

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is when that movie came out.
And it was just getting so much

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love and appreciation and awards
prognosticator saying like it's

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going to dominate the Oscars.
And then within about a month

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you started hearing, well, I
wonder if The Academy Is going

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to honor this film because
historically they haven't

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nominated second chapters in a
trilogy and maybe they'll hold

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off.
And I felt like it almost became

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a self fulfilling prophecy that
enough people told Academy

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members through their various
channels and podcasts and

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everything else, hey, you
probably won't nominate this

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that it that it ended up not
really getting any nominations.

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I'm I'm truly shocked,
especially with Dune and the

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studio behind it, that it has
not made more of an awards push

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this season.
Yeah.

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I mean, I got Best picture and I
got a handful of craft

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categories.
I think it ended up with five or

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six nominations.
I think a few things are

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happening there.
I mean, first of all, I think

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that I apologize if I'm not
remembering the timeline

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correctly, but I think that when
Dune Part 2 came out, there

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wasn't a third yet.
And it was like a week later

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that then they they announced
the third movie.

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And so I think what may be
happening there is that people

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thought it would be a major
Oscar player because people

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thought it was movie 2 out of
two.

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And then all of a sudden it
became movie 2 out of 3.

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And so people rolled back their
expectations.

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I would also say that, well,
yeah, you're right that people

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were saying that in March.
Anyone's saying that in March is

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just wrong because you can never
say any movie is going to

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dominate the Oscars of March
because we don't know what the

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contenders are going to be yet.
It's like, it's like me

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predicting who's going to win
the NBA title three years from

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now and I don't know who the
rosters many teams are going to

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be.
Right.

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Well, there is a movie that I
think won the audience award

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this year at was it Sundance or
it's called the.

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The life of Chuck.
Yeah, that was it.

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Toronto.
I saw that in Toronto.

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I really liked it.
It got great reviews and it just

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got held.
It never came out this year.

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I ended up we we participate in
this thing thing for Vulture

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called the movies Fantasy
League.

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I ended up drafting it for my
team because it was a steal

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because no one knew if it was
going to get released.

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But I think that just goes to
show even towards the end of the

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season, you know, in September,
we had no idea if somebody was

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going to pick this up and try to
give it a push for Oscar season.

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Yeah.
All right, Daniel, let's get

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into talking about the
nominations themselves.

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So this is where I wish we had
Brad present because Brad, a

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host of a movie podcast, is, I
think a pretty good gauge of

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what the average person's
knowledge of the field looks

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like.
He doesn't go seeking out what

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are the Oscar movies for me to
see this year.

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He kind of lets it come to him.
And what I found increasingly

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over the last 5-6 years is that
even smaller movies, which would

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have gotten some level of
marketing are getting next to

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nothing now.
And so people like Brad, I will

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get to January, February, and
he'll say, I've never heard of

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this film before.
And the only reason that I've

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heard of it is because I spent
too much of my time on film

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Twitter.
And so I'll have things placed

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on my radar by people in New
York and LA, and they'll say,

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keep an eye out for this and
it'll eventually come out.

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But as I look through this list
of Best Picture nominees, I

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don't know how many of these the
average person will have had any

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engagement.
With.

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Yeah, I think that's true on the
face of it.

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I mean, it's a correct statement
to say that most people will not

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have heard of most of these
movies.

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I do think that there's an
element of people not making

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themselves available to hear
about things anymore.

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I mean, you know, it used to be
the way we heard about movies

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was because we watched TV and we
would see movie trailers.

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And now we don't see movie
trailers on TV anymore.

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So realistically, you know, how
are people finding out about new

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movies?
If if you don't ever expose

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yourself to something with
commercials, then what do you

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realistically expect to have?
Where do you, how do you expect

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to encounter movie trailers?
And if you don't go to movies

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because you don't know what's
out, then you all start seeing

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trailers in front of other
movies.

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Yeah.
So do you still think that at

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the root of it, this is an issue
with consumers and the way we

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consume things more than it is
an advertiser issue and the way

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that they're targeting people?
Well, I think part of what

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you're talking about is the sort
of relationship between the

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Oscars and box office.
And traditionally when something

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gets nominated for a lot of
Oscars, it gets a huge box

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office boost.
So a lot of films want to be in

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theaters when the Oscar
nominations happen.

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The problem is that if every
film wants that, then they're

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all directly competing against
each other and none of them can

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make it.
And then you leave September,

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October, November to vacant.
So some movies open September,

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October, November.
Other movies wait till January

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when nominations happen.
As the sort of art film world

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keeps getting further and
further removed from just the

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general theatrical zeitgeist,
and as audiences keep wanting to

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watch kind of nothing but
franchise movies, it becomes a

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lot harder.
And, you know, so then you'll

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have films that that
deliberately wait to open for

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Oscar nominations, like
September 5 or Nickel Boys.

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And then they don't get the
nominations that they thought

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they would, or only a few of
them, which that means they

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won't make the money they
thought they would.

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And it becomes a vicious cycle.
Yeah, Yep.

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I think it's mostly about
consumers.

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I also think it's just part of
modern life.

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I mean, so you and I are in a
basketball league.

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We're both huge basketball fans.
One of the biggest conversation

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topics about the NBA the last
few years is why are the ratings

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so far down?
Why, you know, what's what's

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wrong?
Why aren't people enjoying the

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NBA?
And, you know, I listened to, I

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listened to the Six Trophies
podcast with Shay Serrano and

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Jason Concepcion.
I was listening to a new episode

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earlier today and they put it
specifically, it's like the

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razor down for Basil because the
razor down for everything.

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Because in 1994 there were seven
things on TV and now there are

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3000 things on TV, 4 million
things on YouTube, everyone has

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Spotify, everyone has 10
streaming services.

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It's like what?
What do you realistically expect

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in a different reality when
there are 7 things to watch for

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7,000,000 Things to watch?
Yeah, I think that's fair.

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And I'm not trying to to be the
hot take guy, but I've been

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thinking a lot about this crop
of Oscar nominees, especially

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compared to last year's, where I
felt like they did a good job of

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capturing both really populist
movies and also movies that

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built word of mouth throughout
Oscar season.

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I'm hoping that's what we get
this year.

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But it it seems like the Oscars
are always teetering on the

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brink of like complete
implosion.

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And 2024 looks to be a crop of
movies that may not help their

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case a lot when it comes to
viewership and awareness.

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So I want to just let me name
the best picture nominees for

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this year.
You've got Anora the Brutalist,

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a complete unknown, Conclave,
Dune Part 2, Amelia Perez, I'm

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still here, Nickel Boys, The
Substance and Wicked.

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Now, I would say that roughly
half of these have broken

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through enough in the zeitgeist
in the mainstream that people

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will have at least heard of
them, right?

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Like a complete unknown conclave
dune.

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I would say the substance, it's
such a big hit now and wicked

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for sure.
The other five are, I think,

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trying to make their case.
Some of these are definitely a

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00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,520
surprise.
And I'll I'll kind of let you go

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ahead and tease your article
today.

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What were the biggest surprises,
both in terms of what made it

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00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,680
and what didn't make it in this
Best Picture crop?

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Best Picture went pretty
expectedly.

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I got 8 of 10 right.
I think most people got 8 of 10

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00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,280
right.
The two surprises were I'm Still

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Here in Nickel Boys.
The two movies that I think

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people most commonly predicted
to be in those spots were a real

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00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,200
pain in Sing Sing, with a few
people also thinking September 5

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would make it.
I'd say the I'd say it's

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somewhat surprising the real
pain isn't there.

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00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,640
But I didn't think it was a sure
thing because there were only

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two other categories that it was
really expected to be a major

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00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,800
player in, which were original
screenplay and Supporting Actor,

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00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,440
both of which it did get
nominated for.

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But often when a film is only
really going to be a factor in

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two other categories, it's hard
to say the Best Picture support

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00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,480
is truly there.
I think from year to year and

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00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,360
with this new Academy make up
that we have, it's it's both

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00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,720
exciting and it's super
frustrating because you can't

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00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,160
really pigeonhole movies the way
he used to be able to write.

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00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,240
Like I loved a real pain.
It was one of my favorite movies

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00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,240
of the year.
And I really thought that based

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00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,080
on the kind of vibes it was
giving off and the audience

250
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,800
reactions I saw in person when I
saw the film, I was like, oh,

251
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,920
this is the holdovers for this
year.

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00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,600
It this is going to slot right
into that holdover spot and

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00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,080
really make a play.
And you know, they gave it the

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00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,800
big September push.
So I thought that it was in

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00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,760
prime position for a traditional
Oscar campaign, and that just

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00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,600
apparently didn't work.
Whether it was the movie itself

257
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,920
or the sort of traditional way
it was being pushed, it really

258
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,200
never caught on with Oscar
voters.

259
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,600
And I think as I look through
this list of 10 movies, you

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00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,440
know, I'm, I'm trying to kind of
parse out like, oh, you know,

261
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,960
this is this year's Killers of
the Flower Moon or this is this

262
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,320
year's Oppenheimer.
And it's both a good and a bad

263
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,840
thing that nothing really seems
to be mapping 1 to one in terms

264
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,680
of what would make it in in
prior years.

265
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,600
Yeah.
And you know, something you said

266
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:12,040
about, you know, the Academy has
grown and it's certainly artier

267
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,280
and certainly more international
than it used to be.

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00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,880
It's a double edged sword
because, you know, certainly

269
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,640
that is manifesting the results.
But in the old Oscar years,

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00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,520
people used to complain every
year about how many things got

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00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,040
in that were just that seemed
like pure Oscar bait.

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00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,720
I mean, some movies that come to
mind are like The Reader in Cold

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00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,120
Mountain and Extremely Loud and
Incredibly close.

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00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,440
And movies like that don't get
Best Picture nominations

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00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,160
anymore.
But that's a good thing, because

276
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,360
when they did, people complain
every year like who?

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00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,800
Who wants those movies?
And so now it's movies that

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00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,320
certainly has smaller audiences,
but at least somebody does

279
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,640
actually want them, even if
that's a smaller number of

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00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,160
people.
Well, I think that's a perfect

281
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,760
segue into talking about perhaps
the biggest lightning rod of

282
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,000
this Oscars race, and that is
Emilia Perez.

283
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:02,440
Yeah, that's the exception.
I'm not sure who does want that.

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00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,760
So folks, if if you've not heard
of Emilia Perez, it's a Netflix

285
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,960
film.
It is perhaps best known because

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00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,400
of who's in it and that is
specifically Selena Gomez in a

287
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,800
supporting role.
She of $1 billion in make up

288
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,440
money now.
So it's it's a very politically

289
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:26,040
charged and I don't know hot
button topic movie that no one

290
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,000
seems to like because it
certainly would seem to check

291
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,400
the what what would be
considered traditional liberal

292
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,720
boxes of Hollywood.
And yet the audience for whom it

293
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,160
is apparently being made has
pretty much wholesale rejected

294
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,120
it as having really regressive
ideologies.

295
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,080
And then obviously anyone on the
opposite side of the political

296
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,800
spectrum from this movie is
already not going to like it.

297
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:53,360
It got mixed to negative reviews
from most critics, and yet it

298
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,360
has pretty much dominated award
season.

299
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,200
Daniel, is it just?
Because of the international

300
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,480
make up of the Academy.
Now because this movie seemed to

301
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,240
do well at the Globes too.
But I don't think anyone could

302
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,160
have seen this getting 13 Oscar
nominations.

303
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,560
Well, so a slight correction
there that really shocks me.

304
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,960
When I was researching a piece I
was writing the other day, I

305
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,080
looked up the Metacritic score
of Amelia Perez, which I

306
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,840
expected to be really low.
And it turns out the Metacritic

307
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,560
score is 71, which is actually
pretty high.

308
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,040
And I confess I don't understand
it because every critic I've

309
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,640
actually seen or listened to
speak about the film has not

310
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,920
liked it.
So I don't know where that 71

311
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,280
score comes from, but I, I
believe it's accurate.

312
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,360
I mean, I, you know, it's not
like I think anyone is

313
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,160
nefariously manipulating scores
over at the Metacritic.

314
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,760
I, I believe that score is
mathematically correct.

315
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,120
I just don't understand who
those people are.

316
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,920
And are they like, in hiding or
are they in critical witness

317
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,920
protection because they don't
want to admit to liking Amelia

318
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,320
Perez?
Yeah, I don't know, man, but it

319
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,320
definitely seems to be in pole
position here.

320
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,000
Nothing's really challenging it
right now in terms of sheer

321
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,760
numbers of nominations.
The next highest nomination

322
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,839
getters are Wicked and the
Brutalist tied for ten

323
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,119
nominations.
Well, and so sorry, one one last

324
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,599
thing about Emilio Perez we
should talk about.

325
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,680
You know, so you mentioned how a
lot of people that the movie

326
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,200
seems to be 4 don't seem to like
the movie.

327
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,280
And that's true, but there's the
difference between so it's a

328
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,200
movie in Spanish and takes place
in Mexico, but it was made by

329
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,440
Europeans.
A lot of the pushback we're

330
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:41,400
seeing on the movie comes from
people of Latino descent, but I

331
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,960
think a lot of the support for
the movie is coming from the

332
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,680
Europeans in the Academy.
That's like the European

333
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,320
aesthetic of the film.
Yeah, well, I think I've also

334
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,280
seen a ton of pushback from the
transgender community on this

335
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,280
movie as well.
And I I, if I can try to map it

336
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,440
to another recent nominee, I
think this is really kind of

337
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,040
filling the the void of the
triangle of sadness.

338
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,680
How the hell did this movie get
in the best picture race?

339
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,120
And again, it it's a, this movie
is certainly not a satire, but

340
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,640
it has the cheekiness of a
European made film about issues

341
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,760
of it, you know, Triangle of
Sadness, it's issues of class

342
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,160
and race.
This movie, it's issues of

343
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,880
gender and race.
And I think that it's definitely

344
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,120
performing better with non
American critics than it has

345
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:29,800
with anyone I've seen in
America.

346
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,400
Yeah, I mean, the way I've sort
of explained Amelia Perez to

347
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,840
people is it feels to me like
Baz Luhrmann cosplay.

348
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,720
And.
I don't like Baz Luhrmann.

349
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,400
I haven't really liked any Baz
Luhrmann films.

350
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,080
So it makes sense that Emilia
Perez also isn't working for me.

351
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,680
But most Baz Luhrmann films do
really well at the Oscars.

352
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,080
I mean, a few years ago Elvis
got it a lot of nominations and

353
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,560
I did not think Elvis was a good
movie.

354
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,560
But, you know, there's there's
obvious precedent that there are

355
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,080
people in awards bodies that
like Baz Luhrmann films.

356
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,400
And so it makes sense that they
also like Amelia Perez.

357
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,640
Well, since you've now outed
yourself as a Bazelerman

358
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,240
detractor, I'm going to go out
on a limb here and I'm going to

359
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,960
say something that is probably
going to get me drawn and

360
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,000
quartered in film criticism
circles.

361
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:18,800
The brutalist did not do it for
me, man.

362
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,080
I went to see it last week and I
was so incredibly pumped after

363
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,400
that first half.
And I I will join the chorus of

364
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,400
people who just say the
second-half landed with a real

365
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,440
thud.
I thought the epilogue that was

366
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:36,640
tacked on at the end was really
ham handed and just did not work

367
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,960
for me.
Overall it felt like an exercise

368
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:45,280
in Letterbox to Bros making a
movie that captures the form of

369
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,320
films that they love without the
real substance underneath it.

370
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,000
I'm curious to hear what you
thought of the Brutalist because

371
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,200
it seems like this is now A2
horse race between Emilia Perez

372
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,160
and the Brutalist.
Yeah, so.

373
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,600
Well, so first of all, I'm going
to disagree with the last thing

374
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,360
you said.
I think there are other films

375
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:02,320
very much in the best picture
race and I wouldn't even say

376
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,120
that those are the top 2, but we
can get to that later.

377
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,960
The Brutalist I saw in Toronto,
I've been meaning to see it

378
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,200
again.
So I've still only seen it the

379
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,400
one time, which was, you know,
four months ago now.

380
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,640
I mostly agree with you that the
ending didn't work.

381
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,200
I would say I would be a little
more generous and say it's 3/4

382
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,480
of a great movie than just half
a great movie.

383
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,680
I even thought.
That the first half of the

384
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,680
second-half of the movie was
really great.

385
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,600
The third quarter if you will.
I agree the ending did not work,

386
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:39,240
but man, it's such a big swing
and the first half and even the

387
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:47,520
1st 3/4 I think are so good and
so just inspiring for the way a

388
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,880
big swing should make you feel
when you're watching it that you

389
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,680
sort of forgiven anything.
I mean, you know, I, I was

390
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,120
listening to Sean Fennessy and
Adam Naman talk about it on the

391
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,760
best picture.
And what Adam Naman said was

392
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,280
that it's the, the Brady Corbett
is the only person out there

393
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,440
even trying to make a Francis
Ford Coppola movie.

394
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,440
And I thought that was a that
was a great way to phrase it.

395
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,640
But like you, you watch it and
you see the same ambition that

396
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,920
you see in things like The
Godfather and Citizen Kane and

397
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,080
There Will Be Blood.
And that's not to say that it

398
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,000
lands as perfectly as any of
those movies, but man, that

399
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,040
ambition goes a goes a long way
to how you feel about it.

400
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,440
Yeah, for sure.
And I don't want to be overly

401
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,320
negative about the movie, but I,
I feel like there is a crop of

402
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,120
young film makers that are
coming up now who have been

403
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:38,120
equally raised on film history
and Instagram.

404
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,360
And so, you know, you say, hey,
I made my movie in Vista Vision

405
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,360
as if that lends credence to the
film itself.

406
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,880
And I really appreciated some of
the imagery in the movie, but it

407
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,560
felt like a big exercise in
worshipping at the altar of film

408
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,840
without the actual religious.
This experience of having a good

409
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,400
movie presented to you, at times
you know it, it really felt kind

410
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,840
of hollow to me.
Yeah, I think in a way, watching

411
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,360
The Brutalist is almost
experiencing the art form of

412
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,640
movies conceptually more than it
is experiencing a singular

413
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,480
movie.
Yeah.

414
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,480
I mean, even watching the
trailer for The Brutalist, you

415
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,600
just sort of feel like you're in
the presence of something that

416
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,880
is going for it.
Yeah.

417
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,240
And you know, people have talked
for years about the A 24

418
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,320
aesthetic and I don't always buy
into that stuff, but this might

419
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,400
be the most a 24 movie of all
time.

420
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:34,080
Like it is, it is marketed as an
experience from A 24 and I think

421
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,800
it really does appeal to that
sort of, again, I'll say the

422
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,520
phrase like the letterbox to bro
who wants to experience a

423
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,000
Francis Ford Coppola movie.
And it just did not quite hit

424
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,840
that height for me.
Yeah, I I do want to see it

425
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,120
again because the ending really
didn't work for me the first

426
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,880
time I saw it.
But now that I will go in with

427
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,720
different expectations, I'm
curious how it will land for me.

428
00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,720
All right.
If there's two movies that I

429
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,960
think for me are kind of the
dark horses in this race, or at

430
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,240
least contenders in this race, I
think Enora is still hanging

431
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,040
around.
Enora was the front runner back

432
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,280
in October.
It really seems to have fallen

433
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,000
off and taken the back seat.
I'll be interested to see what

434
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,480
the campaign does from here and
call it the traditionalist in

435
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,240
me, but I still think that
Conclave might have a punch to

436
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,080
land.
It is by.

437
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,800
Far, I think the crowd pleaser
of the bunch, if the boomers

438
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,200
that are still represented in
the Academy have anything to

439
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,080
say.
It just feels like a good old

440
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,320
fashioned.
Lots of dialogue, lots of

441
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,320
scenery chewing.
The problem with that is that

442
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,960
Edward Berger didn't get a
director nomination to back it

443
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,720
up.
So I'm curious to hear you said

444
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,280
that there are other movies in
this list that you think could

445
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,280
challenge what is still on the
radar for you?

446
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,160
Yeah.
So if you want to go sort of

447
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,280
inside baseball with how the
breast, with how the best

448
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,480
picture ballot works, of the 10
best picture nominees, it seems

449
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,000
pretty clear that there are six
of them that like really have a

450
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,240
lot of support and four that
don't have as much support.

451
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,200
The six that really have a lot
of support are Inora, the

452
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,000
Brutalist Conclave, a Complete
Unknown, Wicked and Amelia

453
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,560
Perez.
I would separate those six into

454
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,440
two groups.
The Brutalist, Amelia Perez and

455
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,080
Wicked are the three that I
don't think can win.

456
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,160
Best Picture, Anora Conclave and
A Complete Unknown are the three

457
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:26,760
that I think can.
And I would expect the Best

458
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,160
picture winner to be one of
those three.

459
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,880
And the way I would describe the
difference is the way the Best

460
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,880
Picture preferential ballot
works is, you know, so there are

461
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,680
10 films and voters rank all 10.
And then there are elimination

462
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,240
cycles.
For a film to survive and

463
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,000
actually win Best Picture, two
things need to happen.

464
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,800
First, it needs to have a lot of
first place votes.

465
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,320
You can't survive the early
eliminations without having a

466
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,360
lot of first place votes.
That's how we know something

467
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,720
like Nickel Boys or I'm Still
Here are not going to win Best

468
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,480
Picture because they're not
going to have enough first place

469
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,920
votes to survive the early
eliminations.

470
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,600
They're going to be the first
films eliminated from the

471
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,360
process.
But once the early eliminations

472
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:07,480
happen and we start getting
deeper onto people's ballots,

473
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,400
1st place votes don't matter as
much.

474
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,720
Anymore.
At that point, what most matters

475
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,400
is being last on the fewest
number of ballots.

476
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,080
So movies like the Brutalist and
Amelia Perez and Wicked

477
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,320
obviously have a lot of fans
they have.

478
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,960
They will get enough first place
votes to survive those early

479
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,680
eliminations.
But I also think they have a lot

480
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,200
of detractors and they will be
at the bottom of too many

481
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,360
ballots to ultimately win.
Which is why I think either a

482
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:41,440
Nora Conclave or a complete
unknown will be the winner.

483
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,640
Because those are the movies
where two things are true.

484
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,400
One, they're going to have
enough first place votes to get

485
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,000
through the early eliminations.
And two, they won't be at the

486
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,200
bottom of very many ballots.
The one thing that's true those

487
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,480
3 movies is no one really hates
them.

488
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,360
I mean, look, it's 2025 and the
Internet exists so there are

489
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,560
obviously people that hate them.
But generally speaking, in a

490
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,160
voting body of 10,000 people,
those are the three films that

491
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,480
don't really have many haters.
So I think that the best picture

492
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,280
will come from one of those 3.
Now there is a lot of time for

493
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,720
politicking and for campaigning
over the next, what, six weeks

494
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,600
until we get to the Oscars.
If you had to put money down

495
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,640
today on one of those three,
what do you think is A currently

496
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,360
your pick for that, and B what
do you think is actually going

497
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:32,680
to withstand the next six weeks
of campaigning to come out on

498
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,760
top?
Man, Conclave seems like the

499
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,880
safest bet purely because it's
the one that I almost can't

500
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,280
imagine what the backlash is
going to be like.

501
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,480
Inora, you're going to get
backlash about like, is it the

502
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,080
male gaze?
There's already been the

503
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,440
intimacy coordinator backlash
and a complete unknown.

504
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,880
You're going to get the backlash
like is it Oscar bait?

505
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,160
Are music biopics good?
Do they like are they terrible?

506
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,760
Is this like Bohemian Rhapsody
all over again?

507
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,640
And look, I hated Bohemian
Rhapsody and I love complete

508
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:04,760
unknown.
So I don't think movies are

509
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,360
comparable, but there will be
takes that they are comparable.

510
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,720
Conclave is the one where like,
I just kind of don't see what

511
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,480
people are going to attack it
from in in in a way it's, you

512
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,920
know, maybe the most boring is
not the right word because I

513
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,480
think conclave is a really good
movie.

514
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,200
It's it's probably the least
challenging of the best comedies

515
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,200
other than, you know, Wicked,
which isn't really trying to be

516
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,520
challenging, but that can work
in it's favor.

517
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080
Do you think we still live in a
world where you need a Best

518
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,280
Director nomination to back up
your Best Picture nomination to

519
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,120
have a real shot?
Yes and no.

520
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:45,120
I think that over the course of
a decade, you probably have nine

521
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,640
years where the Best Picture
winner also gets a Best Director

522
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,400
nomination.
But there are exceptions in as

523
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,040
long as it happens rarely, not
getting a best director

524
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480
nomination can be actually a
boon for a movie.

525
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,880
I mean, we, we saw this happen
with Argo in 2012 where there

526
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,360
was such outcry that Ben Affleck
didn't get a nomination that it

527
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:06,800
made people like the film even
more.

528
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,920
And look, I, I love Argo.
I think I'm even going to be on

529
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,280
a podcast with you talking about
Argos.

530
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,600
But you have to acknowledge that
a part of Argo's journey to the

531
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,280
best picture microphone at the
end of that Oscar night, but

532
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,600
part of that journey was Ben
Affleck not getting a direction.

533
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,120
And that played directly into
the campaign and the way people

534
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,240
felt about the movie.
Yeah, for sure.

535
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,560
And particularly with Edward
Berger and Conclave, I think

536
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,440
it's really interesting that,
you know, so he also directed

537
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,160
All Quiet on the Western Front
two years ago.

538
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,920
He did not get a best best
director nomination for that one

539
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,320
either.
And All Quiet on the Western

540
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,600
Front and Conclave, together,
those two movies got 17 Oscar

541
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,520
nominations, and he didn't get a
director nomination for either

542
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,480
1.
So that speaks to that will

543
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,800
speak to a feeling that this guy
has not gotten his due and that

544
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,200
could help the movie.
Yeah, I mean, he and Denis

545
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,000
Villeneuve can be hanging out in
the Losers Club on Oscar night

546
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,720
because once again, Denis not
nominated for a Dune film, which

547
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,120
is it was expected.
It still shocks me.

548
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,680
Like I I just don't really know
what the guy has to do with his

549
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,120
gigantic tentpole movie to earn
himself some Oscar love.

550
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,800
That's beside the point because
I think we both agreed Dune is

551
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,240
absolutely out of the running
here.

552
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,480
Daniel, before I let you go,
what I appreciated about your

553
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,000
article was you also don't use
this word snub.

554
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,800
I don't like talking about snubs
when it comes to the Oscars

555
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,360
because it implies some sort of
objective collective truth and

556
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,080
that someone was ignored instead
of just there being a pool of

557
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,600
really good people to choose
from with.

558
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,200
With that said, what are some
films or performances or

559
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,240
whatever what have you that you
wish you could have seen listed

560
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,160
here today?
Yeah, I agree with you that I

561
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,640
don't like the word snub because
snub implies an agenda that I

562
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,800
don't think is what's happening
with 99% of Oscar emissions now.

563
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,040
Every once in a while there is
something I think is a genuine

564
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,680
snub.
The best example I think is last

565
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,920
year when the French film A
Taste of Things was left out of

566
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,280
the best International Film
Race.

567
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,080
I think that was a genuine snub
that I think people deliberately

568
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,240
didn't vote for it because they
were so outraged that France

569
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,080
chose that movie instead of
Anatomy of a Fall.

570
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,000
So it was a real sort of screw
this movie kind of movement.

571
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,360
That is a case where I think the
word snub is fair to use.

572
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,920
But for the most part it's, you
know, I mean, like we said, the

573
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:30,760
the Academy has 10,000 members
and you got 10,000 people voting

574
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,920
on their taste and it's like.
If if.

575
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,920
It's going to be weird.
You know they're going to be

576
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,120
weird results.
The results won't make sense a

577
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,960
lot of the time.
But to say snub implies that you

578
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,560
think people sort of like had
this hidden agenda, which I

579
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,240
think is almost never what's
happening.

580
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,440
In some ways, I think the best
case to use the word snub isn't

581
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,160
when people watch something and
didn't like it, but rather when

582
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,280
the evidence sort of suggests
that people didn't watch a movie

583
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,200
at all.
So, you know, answer your

584
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,160
question, what I really wish
would have been there to me, the

585
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,800
best active performance of 2024
in either weed or supporting any

586
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,040
gender.
Just by far and away what I

587
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,960
thought it was the performance
of the year was Marian Jean

588
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,760
Baptiste in the British film
Hard Truths.

589
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,000
I just saw it last night and
that the movie didn't land for

590
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,040
me as well as it did with
others, but the performance

591
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,440
absolutely did.
Yeah.

592
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,400
And so she one best actress from
every major critics group in the

593
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,160
country, New York Film Critics,
Los Angeles, Chicago, National

594
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Society of Film Critics, they
all gave her best actress.

595
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,800
I don't think that Academy
members watched that movie and

596
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,040
disagreed about her performance.
I think they just didn't watch

597
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,400
the movie.
And that's a different problem.

598
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,840
It's in some ways a more
depressing problem.

599
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,400
I have, if anyone, I will spare
it from you in this podcast.

600
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,880
But I have gone on rants online
that I think the reason voters

601
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,960
aren't watching that movie is
because it is a movie about

602
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,240
black women.
And I think for voting bodies

603
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:18,480
that are largely white male, you
can convince white men to watch

604
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,280
movies about black men.
You can convince white men to

605
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,880
watch movies about white women.
I think it's hard to convince

606
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,560
white men to watch movies about
black women.

607
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,440
It feels too distanced from
their experience and I think a

608
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,880
lot of the most surprising Oscar
omissions in the recent years,

609
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,040
whether it be Daniel Dedweiler
for till two years ago, whether

610
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,840
it be the Woman King getting 0
nominations, whether it be Hard

611
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,360
Truths today, whether it be
Daniel Dedweiler in The Piano

612
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,080
Lesson today.
I think there's a real

613
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,520
commonality of stories about
black women being ignored.

614
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,880
And again, I just, I don't think
it's because voters are watching

615
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,160
movies and thinking they're
good.

616
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,280
I think it's that voters just
feel overwhelmed by their two

617
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,000
watch stacks and the movies that
end up falling out of the

618
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,520
rotation are the movies about
black women.

619
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,840
That's a good point.
Yeah.

620
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,960
I mean, I think that my pick for
her, for who I would have in the

621
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,160
best actress lineup is someone
who didn't even make a dent in

622
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,560
awards season.
But it was my favorite

623
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,760
performance of the year just
because it was so kind of

624
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,200
deliciously scene chewing.
And that was Zendaya in

625
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,840
Challengers.
I thought that she absolutely

626
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,440
knocked it out of the park in
that movie.

627
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,240
And it was it was a challenging
role.

628
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,920
She had to age from basically, I
think like 17 up to mid 30s.

629
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,840
And, and the absolute command
that she had at the center of

630
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,960
that movie, I think she's she
has a presence, a screen

631
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,840
presence that exceeds her, both
her experience and her years on

632
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,160
screen.
It made me really excited for

633
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,720
what's to come with Zendaya.
Yeah, and I really liked

634
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,200
Challengers.
And you know, so Mary Angelina

635
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,160
Baptiste was the the omission
today that I was the saddest

636
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,080
about.
The one that I was the most

637
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,840
purely shocked about was the
Challengers didn't get nominated

638
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,480
for either score or original
song, both which were by Trent

639
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,400
Reznor and Atticus Ross, both of
which were outstanding.

640
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,920
It won best original score at
the Golden Globes, which I would

641
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,840
have thought would at least sew
it up for a nomination.

642
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,080
Yeah, but that didn't happen.
That was, I think, the biggest

643
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,880
pure surprise of the morning.
Well, if we're talking about

644
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,960
film Twitter stuff, I thought
that it might sneak into

645
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,159
cinematography as well.
There's some really inventive

646
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,280
camera work there.
Well, and same with editing, the

647
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,520
way they, the way they assemble
the tennis matches.

648
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,199
Yeah, I mean it.
It got blanked and I was really

649
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,480
surprised.
Daniel, I want to thank you for

650
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,239
jumping on with us talking about
the Oscars.

651
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,560
You've gotten me re excited
about the Oscars after a day

652
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,679
looking at a list of movies that
I frankly didn't love this year.

653
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,440
So tell us a little bit more
about what you're writing.

654
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,360
Where can we find you to get
more excited about this Oscar

655
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,960
season?
So like you said, I, I wrote,

656
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,880
wrote two pieces for Roger
Ebert's this week. 1 was

657
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,040
predictions of how the
nominations would go.

658
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,080
And then there was a piece today
about what wasn't there and, and

659
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,200
why and sort of how it happened
that way.

660
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:09,520
I will be doing Oscar
predictions for Roger Ebert's

661
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,160
the week before the show.
Other than that, I'm not sure

662
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,400
yet, but we'll see.
You can find Daniel on Twitter

663
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,160
at Third Man Movies.
Are you?

664
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:20,600
Are you?
Have you made the switch to Blue

665
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,960
Sky yet?
Yes, I was just going to say I'm

666
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,680
also at Blue Sky at the same
address.

667
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,280
Third man movies third spelled
out THIRD.

668
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,080
Daniel Zwio, thank you so much
for joining us today.

669
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,720
Thank you, Bob.
I appreciate it.

670
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:39,480
Always fun to talk to you.
All right, we're joined once

671
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,800
again by Mark McLaughlin from
Old Blind Spirits.

672
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,200
Mark, it's been like a year and
a half since we had you on the

673
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,840
show.
How's it going, man?

674
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,160
Hey, glad to be back.
Things are going pretty well.

675
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,920
You know, had a 2024 was kind of
a wild ride and mostly in good

676
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,520
ways and churning away 2025.
So you know, things are moving

677
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,720
in the right direction.
We're good.

678
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:00,800
How are you?
We're doing great, man.

679
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,720
I was.
I was saying that it's good to

680
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,280
actually see your face for the
first time.

681
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,920
We're chatting over Zoom.
I don't know what happened last

682
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,040
time, but you you were reminding
us that I think you were like at

683
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,680
home in your bed or something
the last time we talked.

684
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,600
So you know, at least now you've
got like the the zip up old line

685
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,280
vest on.
You look like a professional.

686
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,240
That's right.
That's right.

687
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:20,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the and the listeners can

688
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,600
take the, the, you know, the,
the bedroom thing however they

689
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,520
want, you know.
It was an interesting

690
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,120
conversation to say, at least.
It it just confirmed for me how

691
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,440
sultry the sound of my voice
must be, Brad.

692
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,040
That's that's what it is.
Moving on from that, I.

693
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,400
Mean listen.
Hey, so we've been going back

694
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,560
through some of our past
episodes, Brad.

695
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,880
We've been updating a lot on the
our film and whiskey website and

696
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,760
we've been adding a lot of our
old whiskey reviews as blog

697
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,360
posts.
And we've actually seen a lot of

698
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,600
traffic on the site from some of
these blog posts.

699
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,360
And I just updated the last time
we had old wine on the show, we

700
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,520
reviewed 3 of their whiskeys.
So we did their bottled and

701
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,240
bond.
We did their Madera cask finish

702
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,680
and their Port cask finish.
Now, in addition to those three,

703
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,520
we also had a a separate episode
with Mark just kind of talking

704
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,880
about the history of the brand
where we called out their Navy

705
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,200
strength 114 proof American
single malt.

706
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,000
And dare I say, Brad, it might
be my favorite American single

707
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,480
malt on the market right now.
Dude it is bonkers how delicious

708
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,040
old line spirits 114 is.
That Navy strength just kicks

709
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,840
ass man.
I'm also like curious.

710
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,360
So like Navy strength is 114
where?

711
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,600
Where would you put like army
strength whiskey?

712
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,440
Oh man, well under 100.
OK, that's what I figured.

713
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,200
Yeah, that's like the whiskey
that you can sell outside the

714
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,040
liquor store 'cause they've
proved it down to like 48 proof.

715
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,120
Does that mean that like marine
strength is just like really

716
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,760
stupid?
But it's like 148 proof like.

717
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,760
Yeah, it's kind of like.
Way too much to handle.

718
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,480
Yeah.
It's just very volatile, you

719
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:58,880
know?
Yeah.

720
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,080
So Mark is back to join us once
again.

721
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,240
He's brought along 4 different
spirits for us to sample as we

722
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,000
talk.
But what we really brought him

723
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,640
in for was this new development
in the TTB world.

724
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,840
Folks, we really don't get into
the legality behind our products

725
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,880
very often, but there's been a.
Feeling we should.

726
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,240
I feel like we should though,
Bob, that that's what everybody

727
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:22,280
is looking for.
Like what is the legal world

728
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,320
behind spirits?
I think we just try to cover it

729
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,680
with the blanket statement like
this is legal.

730
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,080
Trust me, you know, that's kind
of what we we typically do here.

731
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,280
But but the TTB recently
designated American single malt

732
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,440
as an official category in the
world of spirits.

733
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,480
And this has been something
that's been brewing for a long

734
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,320
time.
There's been a lot of lobbying

735
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,160
going on to get it recognized as
an official category.

736
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,040
Now, what does that mean for the
average consumer, Brad?

737
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,520
I don't know.
You don't know.

738
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,800
We just know that we're still
drinking delicious whiskey.

739
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,240
And so we've brought Mark along
to kind of fill us in as average

740
00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:01,560
Joe's on what this means for us,
for our wallets, for the shelves

741
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,440
and the selection that we might
see, but also what it looks like

742
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,040
for a producer of American
single malt.

743
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,720
So Mark, we're going to be kind
of tapping into your expertise

744
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,440
today, man.
Yeah, well, hey, no, happy to be

745
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,400
here.
And I mean, do you want to jump

746
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,200
right in to to what you queued
up there?

747
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,920
I mean, yeah.
All right.

748
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,520
Well, so the yeah, the category
recognition has been, that's

749
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,240
been something like you said
that that's been in the works

750
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:28,840
for years.
And one of the most interesting

751
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,880
things about that, in my
opinion, is that it's we as a

752
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,400
category of producers, American
single malt, we were, we were

753
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,000
all producing this thing we
called American single malt

754
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,200
whiskey.
And we were all adhering to a

755
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,720
set of a definition that we all
agreed to as a group of

756
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,880
producers, but it didn't really
exist, right?

757
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,360
We were, we were very, very
broadly under the government

758
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,440
rules called an American malt
whiskey, which had a pretty wide

759
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,920
range of definition.
And then so we were all acting

760
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,280
as if this existed and
encouraging and pushing the

761
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,440
government to place a, a
definition around it.

762
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,240
And you know, one perspective on
that, which was originally my

763
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,600
perspective, was why would we
encourage the government to come

764
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,120
in?
And place any sort of, you know,

765
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,360
definition on something that is
right now we have more

766
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,560
flexibility.
Why encourage the oversight?

767
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,080
And where I was convinced that I
was wrong and I think I was

768
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,240
wrong is that, you know, the
government eventually was going

769
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,640
to do this anyway.
Probably not in 2024 without the

770
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,000
big push, but eventually as the
category grows that we're going

771
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,520
to do it.
And who knows, without our input

772
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,880
what the definition would have
been.

773
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,160
Somebody, you know, well meaning
but not really well versed in

774
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,200
ASM might have just, you know,
put forth some definition that

775
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:34,440
really, really kind of screwed
us.

776
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,160
So you.
Mean you can't trust politics

777
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,560
politicians to like put
categories on things they don't

778
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,960
really understand.
You know, you'd be shocked, you

779
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,760
know, you know, it's, it's, it's
wild.

780
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,840
The, so we, you know, we, we
proposed this and as a, as a

781
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,440
group, like I said, we all got
on the same, same page and, and

782
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,080
then it worked.
It took longer than we expected,

783
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,160
but it worked.
And then So what that means for

784
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,320
consumers in the near term, I
don't think it means much more

785
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,280
than an added layer of not
respectability.

786
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,880
What's the word I'm looking for?
Just an added layer of of this

787
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,360
is a real thing?
This is officially.

788
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,360
Legitimacy.
Legitimacy is a word I couldn't

789
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,000
find.
You know, this is the first

790
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,280
category of whiskey that the US
government has recognized in

791
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,000
like 52 years.
That's a pretty big deal, we

792
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,800
think now.
I think what you're going to see

793
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,240
is what that gives us as
producers is now we have a, you

794
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,840
know, every business wants
clarity.

795
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,880
You know, you always hear about
that.

796
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,360
You know, when there's going to
be changes to taxes or something

797
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,440
like that, whether they're good
or bad changes to businesses,

798
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,480
they, they just want to know so
they can plan and grow.

799
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,280
So we know, we know what this
category now officially looks

800
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,400
like and we you can grow from
there, which is great.

801
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,400
So you know, will you see
American single malt whiskey

802
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,960
categories in your local liquor
store?

803
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,880
Maybe, maybe not.
I think you will eventually.

804
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,240
But in the near term, I think
it's just that little, that

805
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:51,360
little tailwind boost of like,
hey, we're, you know, we're

806
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,400
taking ourselves seriously and
so is the government and so are

807
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,360
the consumers.
Well, and it seems like it would

808
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,200
also trickle down into things
like a San Francisco spirits

809
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,280
competition, right where now you
have a formalized category of

810
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,520
American single malt that you
can win, you know, best in show

811
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,560
in and, and things like that.
So it seems like it just expands

812
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,760
the world and at the end of the
day, like it gives the whiskey

813
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,360
consumer more things to enjoy.
And, and I think that's like the

814
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:26,160
beautiful element of giving it
that designation is like now I

815
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,240
get like I as a consumer, get to
become an expert in something

816
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,480
that's brand new and it like
that's really fun.

817
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,240
Yeah, I agree.
I couldn't agree more.

818
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,680
And then, you know, the beauty
of the definition, the way it

819
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,800
was, the way it has become
official in my opinion, is that,

820
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,720
you know what we didn't want to
do when you look at the

821
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,880
definition of single malt Scotch
or the definition of bourbon or

822
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,480
rye whiskey here in America,
those definitions make all the

823
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,320
sense in the world, right?
And, and they and they are

824
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,320
pretty tightly defined.
And that makes sense when you're

825
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,520
a category that's been around
for hundreds of years, right?

826
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,560
You want to enshrine that so
that newcomers don't, you know,

827
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,120
do something with the category
of bourbon that you don't, you

828
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,440
know, that that the the industry
and the consumers don't want,

829
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:05,600
right?
You know, just, I mean, wacky,

830
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,160
call it a bourbon and it hurts
the name of bourbon.

831
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,440
You know, American Singer Mall
is in a different position.

832
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,520
We're just starting out.
So we want to have a wide enough

833
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,680
aperture, if you will, or a wide
enough list of options on what

834
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,800
we can do with our whiskey that
allows us to do something

835
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,280
different than Scotch, different
than bourbon, but but also have

836
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,000
guardrails on so it doesn't get
too crazy.

837
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,000
So that's really, I think what
was done.

838
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,600
And a good example of that is,
you know, bourbon, as you guys

839
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,280
well know, has to be aged in a
virgin oak cask, as does

840
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,920
American rye whiskey, old line
or excuse me, American single

841
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,800
malt can be aged in a virgin oak
barrel or a used barrel.

842
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,480
It doesn't really matter.
It, it doesn't matter at all.

843
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,960
It's, it's, it's allowed.
And that's wonderful because you

844
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,000
have certain places like, you
know, Virginia Distilling

845
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,720
Company, they make one for
whiskey down in Virginia and

846
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,760
they take a little bit more of
an old world approach and old

847
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,800
line takes more of a new world
virgin oak aging.

848
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,720
We can both do that and be in
the same category.

849
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,040
And I think what you're going to
see is, you know, as the, you

850
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,160
know, up until now, I think that
rum has probably had the widest

851
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,200
breadth of flavors in any
category.

852
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,120
When you look at very, very
funky rums from like Martinique

853
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,720
to very, very sweet rums from,
you know, Puerto Rico or or

854
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:12,120
sometimes the Dominican
Republic, places like that, rum

855
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,600
is just such a wide open
category, which is great.

856
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,600
I think American Singapore is
going to revival that for the

857
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,480
amount of the breadth of flavors
that you can get from a category

858
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,080
because the definition was left,
you know, a little bit more

859
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,680
open.
I think it's a good segue into

860
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,520
talking about the spirits that
you sent us to try today.

861
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,480
And first of all, thank you for
that.

862
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,760
Any package that I received that
has four different kinds of

863
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,040
alcohol in it is always greatly
appreciated.

864
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:36,240
Let's go.
But like I said, I think we've

865
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:38,640
tried four different spirits
from you guys already.

866
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,240
We have four more today.
Three of them are American

867
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,400
single malt.
One of them is a rum, which I

868
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,320
know excites Brad because when
he's not drinking whiskey, he's

869
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,760
a rum guy.
So, Brad, you're welcome.

870
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:51,560
Thank you.
Thank you very much.

871
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:53,760
Mark is my new favorite
distiller.

872
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,320
Yeah.
So I think we should go ahead

873
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,200
and dive into this flagship
American single mall.

874
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,040
This is 95 proof.
And I guess my first question

875
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,760
mark is like, explain to me the
difference between your flagship

876
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,480
95 and your bottled and bond,
which is at 100.

877
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,160
You know, aside from just the
fact of, you know, aging or

878
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,480
proof point, like is there any
sort of different make up to

879
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,360
anything here?
Or is are we just trying to find

880
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,440
a more approachable proof point
for the 95?

881
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,320
That's a great question.
So yeah, there are kind of

882
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,880
noteworthy differences.
So the we have, we produce our

883
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,880
whiskey in two locations.
As you guys may remember, we

884
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,880
have the distillery that I'm
sitting in now where we have a

885
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,440
300 gallon pot still and we work
with Middle W spirits in

886
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,840
Columbus, OH and we use their
much, much larger column still

887
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,480
and pot still for the stuff we
produce out there.

888
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,640
So we produce in two locations
since we're talking about the

889
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,720
category definition or we're
talking about that.

890
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,120
Now it's important to note that
we don't marry any barrels from

891
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,720
Ohio with any barrels from
Baltimore that would run afoul

892
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:53,480
of the definition.
But as long as those barrels,

893
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,320
you know, stay Baltimore barrels
stay with Baltimore barrels as

894
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,680
far as you know, blending and
consumption and Ohio barrels

895
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,000
stay with Ohio barrels, then
we're compliant.

896
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,880
So because of for a number of
reasons.

897
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,880
So the whiskey here is coming
off a completely different

898
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,880
still.
It's double pot stilled

899
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,760
distilled.
And we also age in here in

900
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,760
Maryland.
Most of the stuff we produce we

901
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,960
put into actually 30 gallon
barrels and everything else we

902
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,600
do in Ohio, which is, you know,
higher volume is goes into 53

903
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,840
gallon ASPs.
So and that came about by

904
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,280
accident.
We were phasing our way from

905
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,080
small barrels up to the larger
barrels as a lot of distilleries

906
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,480
do.
And once we hit the 30s, we just

907
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,400
loved the character and we
didn't want to let that go

908
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:36,600
completely.
We didn't want to just pass

909
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,600
through that that size towards
50 threes.

910
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,200
We didn't want to let that go.
So what we do here in Maryland

911
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,920
mostly goes into 30s.
And so that the bottle in the

912
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,960
Bond was distilled here and are
still meets all the requirements

913
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,920
bottle in the Bond and it was
aged in a 30 gallon barrel #4

914
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,200
char, whereas what we're
drinking at the 95 was aged in a

915
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:01,000
53 gallon ASB from for a blend.
And it's a blend of four to 8

916
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,320
year old, which is also
important because those, those

917
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,840
profiles between 4:00 and 8:00
are dramatically different.

918
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,520
And it's it's amazing how they
kind of play together.

919
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,720
One of the things that we
mentioned on the last episode

920
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:14,280
with you guys was and, and
forgive me for the kind of

921
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,800
crudeness of this comparison,
but Brad, I love the Bourbony

922
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,640
character that's brought forth
in their single mold.

923
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,440
I think it's a fantastic gateway
from bourbon drinkers into a new

924
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,360
category.
And I think it is that virgin

925
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,400
oak that you guys use.
It really does impart that sort

926
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,960
of Bourbony sweetness.
Brad, we're going to give just

927
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,320
general impressions of these
because we want to respect

928
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,440
Mark's time, but also we will
give full reviews of all four of

929
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,800
these products on our website.
So go to filmwhiskey.com and you

930
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,200
can find all these reviews.
What immediately jumps out to me

931
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,600
on the nose here, Brad, on this
flagship, we have a tea that we

932
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,360
drink when we're all sick in my
house and there are sick people

933
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,120
in my house.
And it's a lemon, lemon ginger

934
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,640
tea.
There is there is lemon and

935
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,440
there is ginger on this and it
is super bright.

936
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,640
And I am absolutely in love with
this nose man.

937
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:06,160
Yeah, it absolutely has some
floralness to it that I really,

938
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,840
really love.
And yet, like you said, there's

939
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,040
enough of that bourbon
influence, not bourbon

940
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,160
influence, enough of that cask
influence that man, like it has

941
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,400
a little bit of vanilla and a
little bit of caramel and enough

942
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,320
to to blend it all together.
And then you drink it.

943
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,960
And for me, it immediately goes
into that really beautiful multi

944
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,280
experience that I want out of
any single mom from anywhere.

945
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,760
Yeah, Brad, I'm going to let you
kind of dictate which is the

946
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,080
next one that we drink.
Do you want to jump immediately

947
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,560
to the Navy proof, which we've
already said is is freaking

948
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,840
dope?
I always want to jump to the

949
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,760
Navy proof, Bob.
I think it'd be good to jump

950
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:51,760
into the the Pedro Jimenez
Sherry cask finish, which I've

951
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,000
already drank.
Oh my God.

952
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,680
Yeah, one of the things I love
about their experimentation

953
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,200
process at Old Wide is how many
different finishes they're

954
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,840
producing.
So like I said, we've tried the

955
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,040
Port Cask and the Madera Cask
already.

956
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,640
We're trying to Sherry cast
today and I'm looking at their

957
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,520
website and I thought, you know,
we've we have to be tapping out

958
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,920
on all of their their line,
their portfolio at this point.

959
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,760
Oh no, Brad, we've got a cognac
cask finish, Maple syrup cask,

960
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,640
muscatel, armagnac soturn and
rum cask finish that we can

961
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,920
still work through.
So, Mark, you're invited back

962
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,680
perpetually anytime you.
Can count me in?

963
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,360
I'll wear my welcome anytime.
Mark, tell me about the the PX

964
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,920
finish.
Like, what was it about this

965
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,640
specific line that made you go,
oh, we need to turn this into

966
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,280
something, something we're
doing?

967
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,800
You know, so it's, it's been a
kind of a long evolution and

968
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,320
I'll try to keep it as brief as
I can.

969
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,080
But when we started out our, our
finishing process, you know, I

970
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,800
think we first put whiskey in
the finishing barrel back in

971
00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:57,960
2016, maybe.
So right around the beginning of

972
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,120
when we were, we're kind of
getting going.

973
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,320
We went with Ola Rosso Sherry,
which we love.

974
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:04,280
And that was the first one we
did.

975
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,280
It just seemed like kind of a,
for us, an obvious first move,

976
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,880
very commonly used style of
barrel.

977
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,040
And really we figured there was
very little risk to doing it.

978
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,200
Let's just see what, you know,
what happens.

979
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,360
And we love the result.
Somebody kind of opened up our

980
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,360
aperture and decided that, you
know, there's a fine line, I

981
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,400
think as a distillery where, you
know, putting out new and

982
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,600
different products, but also not
coming across as like you're all

983
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,520
over the map, right.
So we made it a deliberate

984
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,960
choice to kind of open up that
aperture and order a couple

985
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,680
barrels here, a couple barrels
there to try out new things,

986
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,440
test them out, see what people
thought, see what we thought,

987
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,640
see what was, you know,
financially, you know, with a

988
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,280
marketable product.
And then now we're kind of

989
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,560
narrowing it down again and
we're taking the ones that we

990
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,440
think are the biggest winners
and making them slowly, surely

991
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,640
into, you know, ongoing, ongoing
releases.

992
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,720
So the Sherry finish, you know,
we did Ola Rosso, which we love.

993
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:01,440
We still do love and at one
point, you know, after having

994
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,240
done the the port casks and that
that kind of fruit bomb

995
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:08,400
characteristic of those port
casks gave us some a little bit

996
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,520
more interest.
And like, well, PX Sherry can be

997
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,520
a little more fruity, a little
sweeter than Olaroso.

998
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,480
So it's not nearly as big and
bold necessarily as one of those

999
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,440
ports, but it's kind of a step
in that direction.

1000
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,800
So we ordered some.
We absolutely loved it.

1001
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,280
We actually have more coming in
soon, more barrels.

1002
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,760
So yeah, it was just a a way of
just taking that that known

1003
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,280
factor of Olarosso and just
nudging it in a different

1004
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:30,680
direction.
And we were thrilled with the

1005
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,000
result.
And actually, if I can share

1006
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,680
without going on too long, we
actually also took a chance with

1007
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,240
these barrels to do an level of
experimentation that we hadn't

1008
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:40,920
done before.
Is these barrels come to us

1009
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,320
sealed with a little bit of
liquid in them, a little of the

1010
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,360
wine and it's there's an inner
gas in there, argon or something

1011
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,320
I believe that keeps it stable.
And then you have a choice.

1012
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,040
You can empty that or you can
keep it in.

1013
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,840
And we had four barrels for this
release and we one, we kept the

1014
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,480
wine in there, which was maybe a
liter out of a like 60 gallon

1015
00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:59,480
barrels.
So very, very minimal.

1016
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,480
You know, one, we Ted emptied
everything out and then the

1017
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,800
other two were like 1/3 and 2/3.
And it was fun just to kind of

1018
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,320
see, you know, every time we do
one of these finishes, not only

1019
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,600
does it work, but what can we
learn from this that we can then

1020
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,840
apply to the next thing when
it's Madeira or whatever.

1021
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,000
So and we actually found that
the one with no with all the

1022
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,400
wine emptied was actually our
favorite.

1023
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,200
Here's here's something I'm
going to be bold.

1024
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:27,760
We just drank a few weeks ago, a
month or two ago, the Bushmills

1025
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,800
30 and Bushmills 29, which are
both PX finishes.

1026
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:37,480
If you can't get your hands on
Bushmills 29, which is thousands

1027
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:42,600
of dollars, I think that this is
like the perfect substitute.

1028
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,720
Oh man.
Like tell me I'm tell me I'm

1029
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:46,240
wrong, Bob.
Here's the thing, dude.

1030
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,560
Like so we've tried three
different cask finishes now.

1031
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,680
And when you already respect
like the the baseline product

1032
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,480
that is being finished in
something else, then you're kind

1033
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,320
of willing to go on a more
experimental route, right?

1034
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:00,880
Like I'm looking at our old
scores.

1035
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,200
I fell in love with the Madera
finish.

1036
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,680
I gave it a 45 out of 50.
It was one of the highest scores

1037
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,640
I've ever given on this podcast.
You were not a fan of the Madera

1038
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,440
finish.
But we both know that apparently

1039
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,040
that's just a thing with the
Madera.

1040
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,880
That's not a thing with this
baseline distillate here.

1041
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:21,840
So I I love that you guys are
willing to introduce people to

1042
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,320
like, hey, this is what old line
looks like Now come with me as

1043
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,000
we try finishing it in all these
different casks.

1044
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,040
I think that this one here the
the PX finish.

1045
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,600
It's crazy to go from the
flagship to this because like

1046
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,760
the the biggest thing I noticed
was the difference in viscosity.

1047
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,240
Like this just had a much more
syrupy mouthfeel to it.

1048
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,840
I don't know, Brad, if I would
say that it tops the Madeira

1049
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,440
finish for me, but it's like
right there, man, This is a damn

1050
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,080
good finished whiskey.
Yeah, and it's the, oh, I if

1051
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,400
you, if you haven't gotten into
PX finishes, this might not

1052
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:01,040
always sound great, but it's the
pruning this of it that like is

1053
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,360
so freaking good.
And I know prunes are not the

1054
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:10,120
favored thing, you know, fruit
of the stone fruits, but man, oh

1055
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:15,560
man, it leaves you with such a
richness of flavor.

1056
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,240
I like, like truly I, I, I hope
I'm not overstepping.

1057
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:22,040
Normally we never compare
whiskies when we're talking to a

1058
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,360
distiller to another company.
I truly think that this is worth

1059
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,600
way more money than you're
charging for it.

1060
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,080
The price The price on this PX
finished is incredible.

1061
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,680
Well, I appreciate that.
And you know, we, we, we make a

1062
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:40,240
very conscious effort to keep
our pricing as we, we, even

1063
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,200
though we're a single malt
whiskey, so many of our early

1064
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,320
adopters are bourbon drinkers.
And, you know, they even

1065
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,360
granted, you know, bourbon
prices have gone out to lunch in

1066
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,000
the past few years, but they're
starting to come back down.

1067
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,760
But the, you know, we, we
thought like, you know, I like

1068
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:59,040
to spend, you know, 45 to 65
bucks is my sweet spot on a

1069
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,760
bottle of whiskey.
I mean, sometimes above,

1070
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,160
obviously there's certain things
below that you can find some

1071
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,760
great deals below that.
That's kind of like, you know,

1072
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,480
generally speaking, where a lot
of what I buy is and I'm like,

1073
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,200
and I think for bourbon
drinkers, a lot of the brands,

1074
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,000
the big brands vacated the
consumer and moved up market

1075
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,600
because demand and left that.
So we're like, you know what,

1076
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,320
like our margin and our margins
are way lower than a a big

1077
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,560
bourbon producer.
AR grain is more expensive than

1078
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,320
B we're tiny, but you know,
we're going to put it there and

1079
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:24,880
we're going to that's what we
think it should be.

1080
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,000
And yes, as we get some things
that are a little bit more rare,

1081
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,440
maybe we'll go up for certain
things.

1082
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,920
But really that sweet spot is if
we feel that's, that's kind of

1083
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,960
where we want to shop.
And I'd, I'd much rather sell it

1084
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,720
there and have you say, wow,
what a deal I got and make a few

1085
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:41,240
extra bucks.
You know, to me, that's better

1086
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,240
in the long run for everybody.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, at the end

1087
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:46,840
of the day, like finish is an
important part of any whiskey

1088
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,600
tasting experience.
And like when I walk away from

1089
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:55,240
drinking a bottle of whiskey and
go man, I only paid X amount of

1090
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:58,560
dollars for that.
Like that is the best finish any

1091
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:03,600
distiller can leave on a on a
consumer's financial palette.

1092
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,680
Like, wait.
Yeah, absolutely right.

1093
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,200
Yeah.
You want people to.

1094
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,680
Yeah.
That that you nailed it.

1095
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,680
Like the purchase should be good
from beginning to end and after,

1096
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,680
you know, just like, hey, I want
another bottle of X.

1097
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,880
That was a good deal.
And I was pleased, you know.

1098
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,920
Well guys, let's jump into.
This Navy Strength and then

1099
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,440
Brad, I think what we'll do is
we will review the rum as a

1100
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,640
bonus review on the website and
we'll keep this totally whiskey

1101
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,200
centric.
We haven't actually given a full

1102
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,120
review of Navy strength aside
from just saying it is awesome.

1103
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,000
And I think.
If you're a listener of this

1104
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,520
podcast like that should be
enough for you to go get it at

1105
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,440
this point.
We've reviewed a lot of whiskeys

1106
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,640
on this podcast, and I'm telling
you, this is an awesome whiskey.

1107
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,080
But Brad, as we dive into the
114, let's just give a few notes

1108
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:47,280
here.
What are you picking up on this

1109
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,200
one on the nose?
Man, I, I mean, it's, it's got

1110
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:55,280
the maltiness that's all there.
I think that what hits me,

1111
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:05,560
there's like a rich vanilla bomb
for me that just it's, there's a

1112
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,880
depth to it that you don't often
find on other single malts.

1113
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,480
Yeah, we talk all the time about
how if you go to Scotland and

1114
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:17,440
you're sampling whiskeys at
distilleries, it's really easy

1115
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,680
to find cast strength or quote
UN quote foolproof Scotch in

1116
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,800
Scotland.
You can't really get high proof

1117
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,520
Scotch in America.
And so AI think that this single

1118
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:31,480
malt is scratching my itch for
high proof single malt.

1119
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,040
But it combines for me the best
of like American craft whiskey.

1120
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,000
It has that just like American
craft note that we get

1121
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,480
sometimes, Brad, you know what
I'm talking about.

1122
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:46,200
There's like a a distinct herbal
note we get on craft whiskey,

1123
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,280
but it's coupled with that
incredible maltiness that we

1124
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,920
love in our single malts.
And it's like the perfect

1125
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,240
marriage of those two.
And I mean, to Mark's point,

1126
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,200
it's 55 bucks like you like
there's nothing on the market

1127
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,680
that is competing with this
right now.

1128
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,120
It's like insane value and
insane quality married together.

1129
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,560
Yeah, yeah, Truly, if you can
get your hands on their Navy

1130
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,760
strength, it will be one of the
best bottles you have on your

1131
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,320
shelf at any given time.
I I man, you guys keep talking.

1132
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,840
I love it.
This is This is.

1133
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,200
How we're trying to coax you
back.

1134
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:25,960
Keep.
Sending us finishes and stuff.

1135
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,760
Done, done, man.
I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a

1136
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,040
sucker for it.
The no well, I, I guys, I can't

1137
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,280
thank you enough for those
comments.

1138
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,040
And I, it's, we love this Navy
strength.

1139
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,320
And you know, where we, we
originally, we call it our blue

1140
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,040
label because it's a blue label.
And the blue label used to be a

1141
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,240
cast strength, which ranges from
1:23 to 1:26 or so.

1142
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,440
And we certainly didn't want to
vacate the cast strength, but we

1143
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,720
wanted to actually make our cast
strength program a single barrel

1144
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,160
program.
So we decided, Archie, I

1145
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,600
decided, you know, a year or two
or three ago, whatever it was

1146
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,320
that well, you know, we love our
cast strength, but he and I were

1147
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,320
almost always putting a drop of
water in it or an ice cube just

1148
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:02,440
to kind of bring it down a
little bit.

1149
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,680
Like we're probably drinking
this thing in the mid one teens

1150
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,960
anyway.
You know, that's what we love

1151
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,680
that.
We just think it shines at that

1152
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,680
kind of 1-14 ish range.
And then also, you know, we're

1153
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,040
Navy guys and no one's really
doing Navy strength whiskey.

1154
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,920
There's a few 1 fourteens out
there like, you know, old

1155
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,280
granddad, but they don't name
label it as Navy strength.

1156
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,440
So all those reasons like, hey,
this just seems like a slam

1157
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,240
dunk.
And then now we've opened up our

1158
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,200
our we call our black label,
which is our single barrel cast

1159
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,120
strength.
So not only like store picks,

1160
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,680
but also we'll do like we're
releasing a Mark founder pick

1161
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,040
here like next week.
I think this 114 has been such a

1162
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,480
big win for us.
And one thing that has changed

1163
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,800
since we last spoke is I'll
shamelessly plug that we can

1164
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,000
actually ship to like 41 states
now.

1165
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:43,520
That's.
Awesome man.

1166
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,960
Website if anybody is listening
and wants to pick up any of the

1167
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:47,880
bottles and we have free
shipping on three or more

1168
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,560
bottles.
So, so yeah, if people are

1169
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,240
interested in grabbing it, you
can go right to our website and

1170
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,560
it basically is fulfilled via
third party in Washington, DC.

1171
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,480
But that's been really, really
great for us that people can,

1172
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,560
you know, experience what you
got, you know, basically

1173
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,280
experience what you're tasting
if they want to taste

1174
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,240
themselves.
Well, Mark, we can't say enough

1175
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:06,760
good things about you or the
brand.

1176
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,080
Thank you so much for joining
us.

1177
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,600
Before you go, I want you to
just give like your 32nd

1178
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,840
elevator pitch to bring it back
to the category for people who

1179
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,400
are listening to the podcast who
really only drink bourbon, maybe

1180
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,480
dip their toe in rye once in a
while.

1181
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,760
Single malts.
It's a, it's a step, man.

1182
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,080
It, it really is a leap of faith
for a lot of people because

1183
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:28,720
they're just not used to the
category.

1184
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,400
Psych us up a little bit.
Convince us why should we be

1185
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,160
trying American single malt?
Absolutely.

1186
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,200
So I, I dearly love the
categories of bourbon, rye,

1187
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,080
single malt, Scotch, you know,
blended, I love them all right.

1188
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,760
And they all bring different
things to the party.

1189
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,400
One thing I've noticed in the
past, you know, especially 10

1190
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,440
years that bourbon has taken on
such a massive outsized role in

1191
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,280
the market where as much as I
love bourbon, there's a lot of

1192
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,160
people who only drink bourbon.
And I think they don't realize

1193
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,120
that there's so many, the things
that they love about that

1194
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,680
bourbon can be found in other
categories and often in ways

1195
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:02,960
that they never could have
really imagined.

1196
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,440
So for us, you know, we're not
trying to displace any category.

1197
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,960
It'd be silly if we never could
if we wanted to, But for

1198
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,360
American Singapore, I think most
of us look at it as, you know,

1199
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,720
for if you guys have your seven
or eight, you know, kind of go

1200
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,800
TOS you, you reach for pretty
often.

1201
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,600
We want to be one of those.
We want an American Singapore to

1202
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,640
be in that rotation.
Because I think that the, the

1203
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,840
flavors, if you look at like AI
think of like a, a blending

1204
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,560
board for like a DJ or
something, like all the flavors

1205
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,920
for the most part are going to
be very similar or the same as

1206
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,400
what you deliver in a bourbon.
It's just they're different

1207
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,920
levels, right?
So you can get those and you

1208
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,720
know, we just offer something
that other categories can't.

1209
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:43,280
And I think it's, you know, go
to your local, you know, whiskey

1210
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,520
bar and you know, it's hey, pay,
pay 8 bucks, 10 bucks, 15 bucks

1211
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,360
to try something new.
If you like it, go to the store

1212
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,280
and buy it.
And that goes for the whole

1213
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,840
category, you know, old line,
others.

1214
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,440
There's amazing American single
malts out there.

1215
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,320
And I'm excited that people are
are starting to really see

1216
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,640
what's out there and available
at a great value in many cases.

1217
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,040
Yeah, and Mark, like you would
be a regular on our podcast

1218
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,520
because Bob and I say that all
the time, Like just try things

1219
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:08,480
like that.
There are so many whiskeys.

1220
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,480
Like go to your whiskey bar,
give it a shot.

1221
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,280
You know, it's there for a
reason.

1222
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,080
Use it to try new things, have
new experiences.

1223
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:20,360
And I, I can guarantee you if
you try old line spirits, it

1224
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,400
will not be a waste of your
money.

1225
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,520
You will have an awesome
experience and it will be well

1226
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:27,800
worth your time.
Brad, I learned a fun fact

1227
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:29,720
today.
I don't I did not know this

1228
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:33,280
until today.
There are currently more

1229
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,520
distilleries producing single
malt in America than in

1230
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,400
Scotland.
So if you.

1231
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,000
Truly suck at Scotland.
I was going.

1232
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,160
To say, if you truly believe in
American exceptionalism, if you

1233
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,280
really think that we're #1 then
you need to be trying some

1234
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:48,520
American single.
Malt.

1235
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,640
Guys, this has.
Been Mark McLaughlin from Old

1236
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,400
Line Spirits.
Mark, it's great to catch up

1237
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,600
with you.
Congratulations on the entire

1238
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,240
portfolio.
Congratulations on the TTB

1239
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,520
designation and come back and
join us soon man.

1240
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,120
Hey you guys, thanks for having
me.

1241
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,400
It's always a pleasure and thank
you all so much.

1242
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:05,600
I'm here, whatever you need, let
me know.

1243
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,480
We'll be back on Tuesday with
another regularly scheduled

1244
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,880
episode, but until then, I'm Bob
Book.

1245
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,520
I'm Brad G.
And we'll see you next time.