Whiplash / Sazerac Rye 18 Years Old

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In 2014, director Damien
Chazelle and star JK Simmons

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gave the world an emotionally
devastating exploration of what

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it takes to achieve greatness.
In 2024 we try a rye that could

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be in class with Miles Teller.
The film is.

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Whiplash.
The whiskey is Sazerac Rye.

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And we'll review them both.
This is the film and Whiskey.

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Podcast.
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad Gee.
And Brad, it is week #5 of

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season #9 here on Film and
Whiskey.

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This season, what we're doing is
we're looking at films from the

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last 20 years, and we're
considering whether or not they

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deserve to be called modern
classics.

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These are films that have either
shown up on the IMDb Top 250,

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the Letterbox Top 250, have
grossed $100 million at the US

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box office or have been
nominated for best picture or

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some combination of of those
categories.

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And I believe our movie for
today, Whiplash, which is just

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celebrating its 10th
anniversary, checks three of

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those boxes.
It didn't.

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It didn't check the box office
box but I think it's in all the

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other 3.
I I was gonna say, I think it's

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pronounced whiplash.
Whiplash.

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Yeah, that's that's correct.
I forgot that.

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I forgot the emphasis over the
H.

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Yeah, if the if the marketing
team had done a better job, it

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probably would have made more
money.

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If it was known as its proper
pronunciation, yeah, sure.

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But Bob, I am not in awe that
this didn't make a lot of money.

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Like when you look at the lineup
of best picture nominees for

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this year, it's a wild time it.
I mean, it's going up against

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juggernauts like American
Sniper.

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What?
What were a few of the other

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ones 'cause I like as I was
looking at it.

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I thought for two seconds that
you'd actually done your

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research and you were like, I
listened to this list and then

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you named one movie and said,
what are the other?

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Ones I I trust you Bob, to know
the other.

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Nominees.
Oh, man.

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OK, let's see.
Giving you a chance to shine.

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Let's see, off the top of my
head, the winner of Best Picture

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this year was Birdman, which
means it was also up against the

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movie Boyhood.
It was up against this movie.

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It was up against American
Sniper.

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Maybe The Imitation Game was
this year.

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No, the theory of everything was
must have been this year.

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I don't freaking know.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
Anyway, this was a good year for

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movies, and Whiplash may be the
best one.

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Question mark.
Far and away the best one you

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think better.
Better than Birdman, better than

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American Sniper.
I I love both of those movies.

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Bob, this is a better film.
You know what's really cool

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about this movie, Brad?
And and we'll get into other

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things we need to get into in a
second here, but they literally

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right after we announced the
lineup of movies for this

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season, I pulled up my Regal app
one night because I wanted to go

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see a movie and I want to see
what was playing.

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And they were doing a whiplash
10th anniversary re release.

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And I was like, hell yes, I went
right that night and watched

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this movie in theaters.
This thing still plays like

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gangbusters, dude it and I'm so
glad I saw it in the theater

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again.
It was freaking awesome.

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Yeah, and this is not quite.
It is almost in the halls of the

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storied 90 minute movie.
I mean it's like barely an hour

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and 40 minutes, which like I'll
give it credit if a if a movie

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ends at 1:39, I'll call it a 90
minute movie.

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Not quite there but man oh man
this film moves so fast and has

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0 fat on it and just I want to
see it in theaters so.

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Badly, Bob, Every time I return
to this movie.

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And so over the last week or so
since I went to the theater and

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saw it, I've been thinking about
what I want to say on this

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episode.
And I keep thinking I need to go

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back and listen to the first
time we recorded this because

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surely this is a revisit episode
for us.

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Somehow we made it to Season 9
without talking about Whiplash,

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Brad.
So it's it's kind of crazy, but

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it makes me feel kind of
nostalgic and puts me in that

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like Season 1 mode of film and
whiskey.

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And what's even crazier is that
you told a story about your

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first time seeing this movie,
and it included a name that

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listeners of this show have not
heard since season 1.

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Brad, why don't you clue us in a
little bit to who our guest is

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today?
Bob, today we are bringing the

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absolutely illustrious.
One of my greatest friends in

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the world has seen me through
thick and thin.

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Jordan Andrew McCain.
Jordan.

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Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
How?

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You doing man?
Doing good.

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I thought this was a podcast for
Drumline.

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That's what I watched to get
ready.

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Is that not?
That's not correct.

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That would be a perfect.
Let's make it a double though.

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That it sure will.
OK.

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That's the one.
Nick or drumline?

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Nick Cannon is good.
Nick Cannon's good Nick Cannon

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probably had kids in in Miles
Teller's class in this movie

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too.
So there you go.

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Oh man, it's all connected
somewhere.

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Yeah, not comment.
Jordan, we literally have not

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seen or heard from for mucin
season 1.

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So I'm glad that the missing
persons report we filed worked.

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You're you're home safe.
Everything's going well.

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Here's the here's the back story
of Jordan being in season 1.

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Brad and I decided to start a
podcast and we said, hey, let's

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record some episodes together.
And this was in the pre using

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Zoom as a socially acceptable
means of recording days I.

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Think we recorded on like a a
speakerphone like we did.

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A conference call microphone.
That's all we.

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Have to record on call, Mike.
The 1st 4 episodes of film and

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whiskey were filmed were
recorded in a church basement

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and Brad showed up on the day
with Jordan and was just like

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hey Jordan's coming he's just
gonna hang out and work while we

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do 8 hours of recording today
I'm.

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None of us had kids.
No, Yeah, that's true.

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I would say I'm pretty sure I
let you know that that Jordan

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was going to record with us.
I might not have.

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No, what you said was Jordan is
coming, but he's totally cool

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with just working while we
record.

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And so we were like I said,
dude, we absolutely not.

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I'm just going to, I'm not going
to make him sit over in the

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corner and listen to us ramble
about four movies.

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So Jordan was our first guest
host on two of the 1st 4

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episodes, I believe it was 12
Angry Men and Inglorious

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Basterds.
So dude, you are like 3 for

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three on picking great movies to
join us for.

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These are three of my, I mean,
these are a lot of my favorite

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movies.
I just say, Brad, you're

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bringing me along, assuming I'm
just going to do this.

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It's a very Terrence Fletcher,
Fletcher move.

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It's just like, oh, we're I'm
going to make it happen.

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We're going to make greatness
happen.

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Yeah, I will say Jordan and I's
relationship over the years has

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been tumultuous at times and so
I thought it appropriate that he

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come join us for Whiplash.
If if you recall Jordan, you

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were a massive fan of Whiplash,
absolutely love the movie and

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every time our friend group in
seminary would get together to

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to watch a film, you would
suggest Whiplash.

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And what was my response
generally?

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Oh, you mean the movie with JK
Rowling?

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JK Rowling, It's, you know,
what's crazy, though, is I think

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that JK Rowling has verbatim
tweeted some of the things that

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JK Simmons says in this movie.
So it really does all connect,

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yeah.
I will if you like a pig.

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Yeah, something about something
along those lines.

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All right, guys, let's dive into
talking about the movie itself.

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And in order to get that
conversation going, it's time

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for our first segment of the
day, which we call, Brad

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Explains.
Brad's going to give us the

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movie plots with only 60 seconds
ticking on the clock, so let's

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go ahead and do your take with
this little segment that we

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call, Brad explains.
Brad Explains is the part of the

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show where Brad breaks down the
plot of the film that he has

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just seen, often for the first
time.

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Brad, what's the watch counter
at on Whiplash for you?

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Probably this was my fifth or
sixth time.

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Oh man, this is like at the
upper reaches the upper limits

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of the bell curve for you A.
100% yeah.

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And honestly, like Jordan had
tried to get me to watch it for

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probably 2 years before I
finally sat down and watched it.

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Jordan, I don't remember.
Jordan is the first time I

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watched it.
Was it with you or did I watch

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it on my own?
I think you watched it on your

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own.
Oh man, I'm sorry dude, I should

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have watched it with you.
Wow, riveting stuff, guys.

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OK, so Brad explains.
Brad, you have 60 seconds to

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breakdown the plot of this film.
This is going to be full of

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spoilers, folks.
So if you've not seen Whiplash,

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first of all, we've already
given you our recommendation.

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You need to hit pause here.
Go watch the movie and then

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rejoin us, Brad.
One minute and go.

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Whiplash, also known as
Whiplash, is a film about a

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young drummer named Andrew
Niemann who is at a prestigious

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music Academy in New York City.
His drug is being great and JK

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Simmons plays his teacher
Terrence Fletcher, who is his

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drug dealer.
That's it, huh?

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That's what we're going to.
Bro, if you haven't seen

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Whiplash, go watch it.
It's really good.

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Like it's an hour and 40
minutes.

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People, I just want you to watch
this movie.

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So the director of this film,
Damien Chazelle, kind of bursts

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on the scene with this movie.
Chazelle is a trained jazz

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musician and filmmaker, and he
carved out his little niche in

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filmmaking by making a short
film version of Whiplash that

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was kind of his proof of
concept.

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He submitted it to a bunch of
film festivals as a way of

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trying to to secure funding for
the full length film.

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They actually got JK Simmons to
be in the short film version of

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Whiplash.
It's pretty cool if you've if

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you've never seen the short
film, it's essentially that

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first extended sequence of Are
you going to be on My Time?

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And that's like, that's the
movie really, really great.

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Little short film builds a lot
of tension and Chazelle pretty

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quickly establishes himself as a
young master of the craft.

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He then goes on to make La La
Land because they gave him a

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bunch of money.
After La La Land, he makes his

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Neil Armstrong biopic First Man,
and then he makes Babylon, which

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was a colossal flop.
And people are in interesting

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places on Chazelle now.
I think that they they still

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look at him as a guy with
tremendous talent and the

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ability to take a big swing.
But I'm going to be honest, I

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don't know if he's ever topped
this movie.

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Like this is such an economical
movie, both in like how they

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spend the budget and in how
there's no fat on this thing at

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all that it's it's kind of hard
to find a way to one up this

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movie, even one of the with a
movie like La La Land, that goes

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for excess.
I don't know if it beats

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Whiplash for me, Brad.
Yeah, there is.

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I don't know if we've ever
watched a movie on this podcast

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that has a more clear through
line throughout the film.

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Yeah, like I like, I just, I
really can't think of many

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movies that are more dedicated
to the main story, the main

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thrust of the film, and just
never, ever strays from what the

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movie is all about, which makes
sense because that is what the

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main character is doing
throughout this movie.

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Yeah.
I mean, trying to think of a

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movie that is as focused.
Yeah, I it would be 1.

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I mean, it's in my top 10.
It's one of those that really

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epitomizes a perfect story
structure.

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And even although I will say for
me, because of the things that

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brings up in me when I was even
trying to draw the story

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structure of like what is the
climax of this movie?

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00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,000
I'm not 100% certain that it's
not supposed to be the end.

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00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,880
But if you talk about the scenes
that are like the best in this

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movie, you're like, is there
anything other than the ending

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00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,200
of this movie that is one of the
greatest moments?

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00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,160
Like instant.
It is just so intense and then

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00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,960
it pop.
Yeah, I mean, you're right.

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00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:02,280
It's just hard to believe.
It's a perfectly structured

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00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,840
story, but it doesn't follow
like the three act structure.

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It doesn't have like the rise
and fall kind of denouement at

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the end of the movie.
It's more like a freight train

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that gets moving and then can't
stop.

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And Chazelle even commented on
how he wanted to make the

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00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:21,560
original short film kind of echo
a sense of dread that he had by

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being in this kind of high
stakes jazz band, which is a

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00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,920
hilarious sentence to say I was
in the high stakes jazz band.

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00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,040
You don't understand, man.
But but dread is what this movie

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00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,560
does really well.
I watched this movie in theaters

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00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,920
back in 2014 and I walked out of
it.

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00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,880
And I remember posting like,
this is the most terrifying

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00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,120
movie I've seen in a long time.
Like it was, it's it's scary to

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00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,280
watch how this movie brings up
that sense of tension, of

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00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,040
suspense, of dread within you,
and it doesn't let up.

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00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,680
And then, depending on your
interpretation of the ending,

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00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,560
gets even more horrifying at the
end of the film.

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00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,880
Also, the idea of posting like,
like grandpa.

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Tell us about what it was like
to post on Facebook in 2014.

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00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,040
Do you?
Remember when Facebook statuses

251
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,760
used to like come with the word
is pre programmed, be like Brad

252
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,800
G is and then you were supposed
to finish the sentence.

253
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,600
A book is afraid of JK Simmons.
100% man, still to this day.

254
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,840
OK, let's let's start talking
about the film itself.

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00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,280
I want to start with Miles
Teller, who prior to this movie

256
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,440
had really only made maybe one
film that people had seen and

257
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,680
started hyping him up for.
It was a small indie movie

258
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,280
called The Spectacular.
Now, he was really good in that

259
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,680
movie, and then he comes out
with this and I remember walking

260
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,800
out of this movie and thinking
like that dude is going to be a

261
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,120
movie star.
And I think some.

262
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,560
Then he was in the Fantastic
Four fan.

263
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,360
Four stick.
Yeah, it it did not go well for

264
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,440
him, I think partially because
he has a low key reputation for

265
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,320
being kind of difficult.
But then also he made a a couple

266
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,120
movies that just did not work.
And his big return to form was

267
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,040
supposed to be Top Gun Maverick,
which was supposed to come out

268
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,040
in I think 2019 and then got
delayed by almost three years.

269
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,280
So by the time Top Gun Maverick
comes out, we really hadn't

270
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,120
heard from Miles Teller on a
major scale in a couple years.

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00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,280
I would really like to see him
kind of continue the momentum of

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00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,520
Top Gun Maverick and and find
his footing again, because I do

273
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,920
think that he's one of those
young actors, similar to when we

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00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,280
talked about Shia LaBeouf, Brad,
that like he had the raw kind of

275
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,440
rage within him that he could
channel really, really well.

276
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,440
And now that he's older, I want
to start seeing him fine tune

277
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,040
it.
And I think he deserves to be a

278
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,400
star.
I just don't know where do you

279
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:56,560
guys kind of consider him in the
Hollywood star tier ranking now?

280
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,440
Would you consider him like an A
Lister or where would where

281
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,880
would he fall in that kind of
ranking?

282
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,320
Yeah, I, I would love to hear
your reflections walking out

283
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,760
that made you feel that way.
I he is not the I mean, as bad

284
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,520
as it sounds, he's not the
person I think about his acting

285
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,240
when I walk out of this movie.
Like I think he's good.

286
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,560
And in some ways he is the moon
reflecting the sun.

287
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,040
Like he does a good job punching
a drum and being very upset.

288
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,360
And he even says that he's upset
at a certain point.

289
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,960
But I, I did not walk out
thinking like, man, that guy is

290
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,280
going to make it someday.
It's just like, wow, this was a

291
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,480
really good role for him.
But wow, JK Simmons is a really

292
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,840
good actor.
That's all I could ever think

293
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,440
about when I watch this movie.
Yeah, I was going to say, I

294
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,200
think I'm kind of with Jordan on
this one.

295
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,120
Like Miles Teller is very good
in this movie.

296
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:56,480
I think that he has a brooding
intensity about him that like

297
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,400
ramps up throughout the film
until you get to the car crash

298
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,920
sequence, which is almost feels
reminiscent of our very first

299
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,000
episode, the the Goodfellas drug
sequence.

300
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,680
And I think, I think Teller
really knocks it out of the park

301
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,319
here.
But I, I am just going to say

302
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,200
there's no better way to
describe it.

303
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,480
He is the moon reflecting the
sun.

304
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,560
That is JK Simmons.
Yeah, I, I'm with both of you.

305
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,200
I I also think that watching a
film of an up and Comer 10 years

306
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,720
ago and being able to identify
like he's got it, this isn't

307
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,560
this isn't it yet, but he's got
it within him is very different

308
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,960
than now.
Revisiting it after seeing him

309
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,840
in more movies and kind of just
improving his craft.

310
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,160
I'm I'm with you that there's a
few scenes where I'm like, oh,

311
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,200
he's still young.
Like he's, he's still not quite

312
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,720
there on JK Simmons level.
Even even the I'm upset line

313
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,960
where when he's screaming and
it's like, oh, this is not

314
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,840
believable.
But aside from that, he has to

315
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,680
be in every single scene of this
movie.

316
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,200
Like there is no scene in the
film that he is not in.

317
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,200
Everything is told from his
perspective.

318
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,840
And I think for being on screen
for the entirety of the film, he

319
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,880
anchors it down pretty well
because if he was going to be as

320
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,680
big and over the top as JK
Simmons is, this movie would not

321
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,040
work.
It would just be a shouting

322
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,720
match.
Yeah, I I think that he he has a

323
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,640
talent for holding back until
the very end there.

324
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,040
There's just little moments that
you want him to be a better

325
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,320
actor.
But I, I guess when you look at

326
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,080
his overall career, because
that's where this conversation

327
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,560
kind of started, Bob, I don't
know if I've ever thought of

328
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,360
Miles Teller as a great actor.
Like I've other than Whiplash,

329
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,280
I've never seen him in something
and gone man, that guy's going

330
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,760
to be a movie star.
And if I'm being blunt with you,

331
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,880
Bob, it's because he's like an
above average actor with below

332
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,360
average looks.
And that like, if that's a

333
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,480
recipe for success in Hollywood,
then I, I don't know what we've

334
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,720
been watching for 100 years.
It is pretty funny the bar that

335
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,880
we set for people's looks in
Hollywood though, 'cause I think

336
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,000
he is a generally good looking
guy.

337
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,560
He's just not movie star Hans,
He's not Glenn Powell, you know

338
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,160
what I mean?
Like you put him next to Glenn

339
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:20,600
Powell.
Sure.

340
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,280
I would say he's no Jordan
McCain.

341
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:24,840
We'll, we'll just put it that
way.

342
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,200
He is.
Whiplash.

343
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,160
With Glenn Powell, that could be
something that could be a crazy

344
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:31,800
remake.
Glenn Powell could have been

345
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,080
like the the Irish guy that is
that's like the third up on the

346
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,400
drums that he makes fun of that
would that would have been a.

347
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,840
Perfect Glenn Powell role.
I love the line 'cause it

348
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,440
reveals like a lack of
self-awareness for Fletcher JK

349
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,080
Simmons character but I love the
line when he goes.

350
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,360
Connelly was just a a tactic to
get you motivated.

351
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,400
It's like, yeah, man, we, we
all, we all got it.

352
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,720
We we were there.
We saw.

353
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,480
So I think that this could
really quickly devolve into all

354
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,320
of us just saying how good JK
Simmons is over and over and

355
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,720
over.
And it would be deserved if we

356
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,360
did that for him.
But I think I just kind of want

357
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,320
to talk around the character for
a little bit.

358
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,080
This is a character that I don't
think we should reduce down to

359
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,320
He is a villain or he does bad
things or whatever, because

360
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,960
there are there are elements of
his character that are

361
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,440
legitimately like some of the
insults he says are the funniest

362
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:31,920
things I've ever heard anybody
say.

363
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,080
Like he is clearly inflicting
emotional abuse upon so many

364
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,640
people.
But then you're like, God, man,

365
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,160
this guy is so good at insulting
people.

366
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,920
Like when he when the the fat
trombonist is looking down at

367
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,080
the ground and he's like, what?
What do you there's not a

368
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,600
fucking Mars bar down there?
Like it's the best line in the

369
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:51,600
movie.
I love it.

370
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,800
I I think the thing that I am
most fascinated by is the

371
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:02,560
philosophy that he puts forth
and so clearly believes in and

372
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,360
the like the charisma that he
utilizes to enforce that

373
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,960
philosophy is like fascinating.
And, and the more I thought

374
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,080
about Jordan joining on this
episode, the more I was like, I

375
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,480
feel like he is the perfect
person to talk about how

376
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:25,240
dangerous and flawed having a
philosophy such as Terence

377
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:31,400
Fletcher's, that the only way to
get greatness is to ridicule it

378
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,520
into existence, to demand it
into existence, to violently

379
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,920
right like.
You're you're challenging it,

380
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,480
you're trying to coax it out of
someone by needling them into

381
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,720
showing it, essentially.
Yeah, and I just, I, Jordan, I'm

382
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,600
going to throw you either under
the bus or maybe up on top of it

383
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,480
like a champion.
I think you should talk about

384
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,080
that because I, I think that,
yeah, your wisdom in the area of

385
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,040
Terence Fletcher's philosophy on
greatness would be great,

386
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,160
greatly appreciated.
I mean, I'm from Indiana and

387
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,280
Bobby Knights are hero, so
that's the only way to go in my

388
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,560
opinion is that's how you create
great people.

389
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,040
Listen, the results speak for
themselves, man. 100 percent,

390
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,640
100% no.
I mean, that is the thing about

391
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,960
trials and tribulations, or
however you want to put it.

392
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,880
Trauma really is what it is.
Like I'm, you know, we're all

393
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,200
from the Midwest.
And so I remember I have no

394
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,200
experience with jazz.
And as 3 white men, we can all

395
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,360
just acknowledge that that's
maybe isn't our area of

396
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:38,240
expertise.
But I remember watching this for

397
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,200
the first time and being like,
hey, somebody goes, this is a

398
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,760
jazz drumming movie, you should
watch it.

399
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,760
And I'm like, sweet.
So they're in this beautiful

400
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,800
stately practice area.
And then JK Simmons begins

401
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:56,280
saying things I've heard, like
in my football locker room,

402
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,880
right?
Like, just like tearing these

403
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,920
people apart.
And I remember it brought me

404
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,520
back very viscerally to moments
of like, what's going to happen

405
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,840
at the end of this pump up
speech?

406
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:18,600
Like, are these 1819 year olds
who are getting ready for the

407
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,920
game, are they going to respond
and yell and like go out there

408
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,600
and kick butt?
Or are they going to realize

409
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,960
they're being verbally abused
and roll over?

410
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,160
And, and it's, it's a fine line
because if you respond well to

411
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,600
it, the ends will always seem to
justify the means.

412
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,400
And I think it's very accepted
and normal.

413
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,720
I think that that gets old
pretty quick, but it actually

414
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,760
is.
It can be work really well when

415
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,960
you're young and you just want
it that badly.

416
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,760
I think we all lose our
tolerance for that as we age

417
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,280
would be my guess.
I don't know your guys

418
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,200
experiences have been.
I mean, I remember viscerally

419
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,240
9th grade basketball, we lost
to, I think it was North

420
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,040
Ridgeville, a team that we never
should have lost to.

421
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:09,000
And Coach Siciliano, this like 5
feet.

422
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,760
He said he said, raging Italian
man.

423
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,240
He said you.
Lose at the game, you know, get

424
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,080
at a pizza.
That's what he said, right?

425
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,080
He he was very Italian.
He had do you do you know those

426
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,520
like the mini water bottles that
have like 4 ounces in them?

427
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,840
He whipped one of those suckers
against the chalkboard and it

428
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,720
stuck in the chalkboard.
He he like hit it with the cap

429
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,640
and it stuck in the chalkboard
and he kept screaming.

430
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,760
And then he said.
And then he said, did you know

431
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,600
that Charlie Parker got a symbol
thrown at his head?

432
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,160
This water bottle will bring out
the greatness in you.

433
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,160
Exactly.
Yeah.

434
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,520
So 100%, man.
I think the fascinating thing

435
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,040
that this movie does is that it
sets the backdrop of this older

436
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:05,320
student who had been abused by
JK Simmons against the story of

437
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,320
Andrew Niemann.
And so even as the film ends, I

438
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,880
like I this didn't happen to me
the first time or even the

439
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,480
second time.
But the last few times I've

440
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,960
watched this movie, as soon as
the movie ends and Whiplash hits

441
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,400
the screen, I think about that
student who killed himself 5-6

442
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,320
years later and I'm like, oh,
Neiman is headed down that same

443
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,800
track.
Oh, 100%.

444
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,080
And so this is actually where I
think the movie succeeds the

445
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,480
most is not in the scenes where
he is humiliating people

446
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,200
publicly.
It's when he's kind of like

447
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,520
working the back channels in
between things and he's trying

448
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,040
to be buddy buddy with Andrew
and asking about his mom and

449
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,360
dad.
And then you come to find out

450
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:48,200
five minutes later, he only
cares about the mom and dad so

451
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,800
that he can have ammunition to
use.

452
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:55,240
But that final scene that they
have in the bar after Andrew has

453
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,000
already, you know, ratted him
out, basically, there's such a

454
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,160
weird combination of things he's
saying to Andrew that are

455
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,800
complete lies and things that
are complete truths about

456
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,360
himself.
That's that's the scene where

457
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:12,680
you get his philosophy about
himself and his teaching style.

458
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,000
And it's also the scene where he
starts kind of stroking Andrew's

459
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,240
ego again to get him to accept
this invitation to play at the

460
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,280
end of the film, which is all an
elaborate ruse to sabotage

461
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,720
Andrew one last time.
It's freaking crazy.

462
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,520
This guy is an absolute
psychopath.

463
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,360
But you buy into the world that
they've created.

464
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,120
And I think that this is kind of
where I want to go for the next

465
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:40,200
little segment, guys, 10 years
on from the movie, I'm, I'm

466
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,560
wondering like, as I'm watching
it, how is this aging?

467
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,120
Like, is it a little?
Does it feel a little dated in

468
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:52,400
an era where we're like, post me
too now and Me too hadn't even

469
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,760
happened when this movie came
out.

470
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,680
I just don't think anyone in
this day and age would like Gen.

471
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,320
Z would get away with like,
slapping a student repeatedly in

472
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,040
class.
And so you you kind of have to

473
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:09,120
take off your 2024 goggles in
those early scenes and either

474
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:13,120
get on board with the world of
this movie, which is slightly

475
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,280
exaggerated, or it's not going
to work for you.

476
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,960
And I will say that like, once I
got on board with, you know

477
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,520
what, whether this would happen
in the real world, I think that

478
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,280
they do a plausible enough job
with like, hey, everyone knows

479
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,200
it's happening, but nobody will
say anything.

480
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,600
And once they kind of
established that, I was bought

481
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,400
in again.
And I'm just kind of wondering

482
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,520
like, did you guys have that
layer of disconnect from the

483
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,040
movie this time around or are
you like all the way bought in

484
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,000
from the beginning?
I don't know, man.

485
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,360
I, I have heard enough stories
now, and not just the Bobby

486
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,480
Knights of the world that are
big and famous.

487
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,640
I, I, I've heard enough stories
and I've seen enough people like

488
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,040
this.
I've listened to the rise and

489
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,680
fall of Mars Hill.
I I don't think this exaggerates

490
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,120
anything like not not to like
completely contradict.

491
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:05,520
Your point, Bob I no, you're
right.

492
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,640
You're right.
Like, I think stuff like this

493
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:13,360
happens way too often when you
get these insular, insulated

494
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:20,480
worlds where a narcissistic
personality is allowed free

495
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,880
reign because he does bring
about greatness and he brings

496
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,480
home trophies from these
competitions and he produces

497
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,960
some great musicians.
It's like, OK, well, we're just,

498
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,160
you know, it's just Fletcher
being Fletcher.

499
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,720
I like, I don't know, I, I never
once thought that this was, like

500
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:42,160
an exaggerated world.
It it felt eerily too similar to

501
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,520
a real world, for me at least.
I see both.

502
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,960
I think I would agree with Brad
that I imagine it's happening.

503
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,600
I don't know if anything changes
more than it just shifts in

504
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,440
where it's located or what
happened.

505
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,800
So maybe it's not happening in
this version of Juilliard or

506
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,600
whatever their school is, but
it's probably happening in small

507
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,120
town, whatever Ohio, right, Like
probably happening there.

508
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,880
What I think is interesting that
I think is different in 2024 is

509
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,520
the thing I hear most
consistently from people working

510
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,000
with young folks when it comes
to coaching or teaching, is the

511
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,120
level of like emotional
resilience in young people is on

512
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,480
such a decline that like, I
don't know if how many students

513
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,960
would even show up for this jazz
club team, whatever it is, but

514
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,160
jazz band, that's how much I
know about jazz.

515
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,280
I don't know what it's called,
but I don't know how many would

516
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,640
show up after three sessions
because they would be so

517
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,000
discouraged so quickly that they
would just quit.

518
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,720
Now, again, that's also
contextual, situational, but

519
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,400
that's like the most consistent
thing I hear, even at college

520
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,880
levels is like, kid strikes out,
he goes to the dugout and he

521
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,280
thinks he's the worst baseball
player who's ever lived as

522
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,160
opposed to just like, yeah,
dude, you just struck out like

523
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,040
you.
That's how that's what baseball

524
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,840
is, you know?
And it's just really hard to get

525
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,920
them through those low points.
I think actually the resilience

526
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,960
for me feels crazy.
I'm going to be honest, man, it

527
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,160
kind of sounds like you're
making JK Simmons point for him

528
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,560
a little bit that like, hey, if
we're ever going to find the

529
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,280
next bird, you got to throw some
symbols.

530
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,960
These kids, these.
Kids, I don't think that's

531
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,840
that's not how you build
resilience.

532
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,880
You don't build resilience that
way.

533
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,880
He JK Simmons is taking
advantage of resilience that

534
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,480
already exists.
You know this, you're not

535
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:46,560
arguing for it, but you know,
but he is taking advantage of

536
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,320
whatever level of emotional
maturity they have and then

537
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,440
trying to strip it down and own
it.

538
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,520
And I just don't know how much
of that even exists unless

539
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,240
you're a pretty emotionally
healthy family in this day and

540
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,360
age.
You should see how many symbols

541
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,600
Jordan throws at our church.
It's just.

542
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,280
We, we go through so many, the
budget for symbols each year is

543
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,400
astronomical.
So guys, before we go to break,

544
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,360
I want to talk a little bit
about Andrew's kind of downward

545
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,440
trajectory.
And this time around, you know,

546
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,880
it's it's always been there in
the movie and it's told like a

547
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,520
Horror Story and it's told to
Brad's point, like an addiction

548
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,040
story.
Like you could pair this movie

549
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,080
up with something like Requiem
for a Dream and it would make a

550
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,640
super depressing but not at all
dissimilar experience.

551
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,360
And this time around, though,
what I really found fascinating

552
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,440
was how Andrew's, for lack of a
better term, like

553
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,200
assholeishness.
I don't want to call it

554
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,800
sociopathy, but his inability to
get in contact with his own

555
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,800
emotions and feelings and
ability to process what's going

556
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,760
on with him and his decision to
push people away.

557
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,160
It's there in the early scenes
of the movie, even before you

558
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,240
kind of get into the downward
descent.

559
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,920
So that by the time he breaks up
with his girlfriend, it's just,

560
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,840
it's so callous.
But he does it in a way that for

561
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,840
him is just, it's like, yeah,
I'm going to lay out the facts.

562
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,520
I'm super obsessed with this.
And I can't pull myself out of

563
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,760
its its clutches.
And so, like, we should not be

564
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,960
together anymore.
And what she responds to is

565
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,920
like, what's wrong with you,
dude?

566
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,080
How can you talk like that and
not feel anything?

567
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,520
And I think the movie does such
a good job of establishing, yes,

568
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,000
Fletcher is horrible and
manipulative, but Andrew's also

569
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,440
the kind of guy that here's this
philosophy and is like, oh, that

570
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,760
makes total sense.
That's me.

571
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,960
I need to do that.
Yeah, I, I mean, for me, Andrew

572
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,480
is like one giant trauma
response.

573
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Like, like they said it from the
start.

574
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,840
His mother left them when he was
a child.

575
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,400
And everything from the movie
flows from that.

576
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,240
Like he has zero empathy for
others.

577
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,840
He has zero compassion for
others and the only times he

578
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,280
really gets emotional in the
film are when he is getting the

579
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,800
hit of the drug of like fighting
for his dreams of greatness.

580
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,840
And so the the this time through
I especially noticed it.

581
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:26,160
He plays everything so deadpan
outside of his drumming career

582
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,600
that the only time he gets
passionate is when he's at the

583
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,440
dinner table with his family who
doesn't understand him and they

584
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,480
are belittling him and don't
don't understand his desires.

585
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,920
That's when he gets passionate.
When JK Simmons is like talking

586
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,600
to him about his philosophy, he
doesn't even get excited.

587
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,960
He's still completely deadpan.
It's not until he has the offer

588
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,760
of drumming again that he starts
to show emotion.

589
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,080
And so for me, like this is a
very, very classic trauma story

590
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:03,080
of a young man who has gone
through a horrific, terrible

591
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,960
thing of losing a mother and the
results that happened from that.

592
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,560
They also do such a good job
though of at multiple points in

593
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,560
the movie, giving Andrew these
kind of inflection points where

594
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,679
for the audience, depending on
how you want to read his

595
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:23,520
character, his moments are
either heroic or they're signs

596
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,800
of his continuing decline into
like madness.

597
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,920
And that dinner table scene is
such a good example because they

598
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,719
set it up by his dad who dotes
on him, who gives him

599
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,120
everything, getting made fun of
himself by his brother or

600
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,840
brother-in-law.
And they say he overcooked

601
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,440
something and he doesn't say
anything.

602
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,000
And he's real meek and mild
mannered.

603
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,560
And then the kid says something
to Andrew and Andrew's like,

604
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,960
absolutely not.
I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm

605
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,560
going to belittle you.
I'm going to tell you that

606
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,120
you're at AD 3 school, that you
will never play in the NFL.

607
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,120
And.
Tell me that's not a great line

608
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,280
though, just the way he quietly
goes.

609
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,440
It's Division Three.
It's AD 3.

610
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,440
School, yeah, But it's see, as
an audience member, you're like,

611
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,200
yeah, he's sticking up for
himself.

612
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,960
He's sticking up for his dad.
But what's really happening

613
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,800
there is he's a like, just
taking it out on the poor guy.

614
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:22,320
But also he's just reflecting
the exact type of challenge to

615
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,600
that guy's greatness that he's
been receiving from JK Simmons.

616
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,800
And it's just really scary to
see how that philosophy is being

617
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,640
perpetuated.
And you see that when the chord

618
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,720
drummer and how he treats him as
he loses the sheet music.

619
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,000
Are you talking about
immediately?

620
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,200
Are you talking about great
value, Ted Mosby?

621
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,040
Yes, yeah.
OK.

622
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,240
Just just making sure.
That's funny.

623
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,840
That, that is a perfect
description.

624
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,080
I think his name is Tanner in
the movie.

625
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:57,040
The way he belittles Andrew is
exactly what JK Simmons does.

626
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,840
And so, yeah, I love those
moments where you're like, oh,

627
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,560
this philosophy is completely
permutating the little world

628
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,480
that Fletcher has created at
what the Shaffer Conservatory, I

629
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,440
think it's called.
You notice too, that you know

630
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,960
the way that Holtz work is they
attempt to make you cut off all

631
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,040
interaction with anyone outside
of the group.

632
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,600
And if you follow like the
synergy of the conversation is,

633
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,080
JK Simmons slowly but surely
makes fun of and mocks every

634
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,880
outside relationship that Andrew
has, including his dad and his

635
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,800
mom, right.
He learns just a little bit

636
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,920
about his dad and then uses that
to prove he's not good enough.

637
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,920
And then if you actually track,
it's funny you say that Bob,

638
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,000
that his dad dotes on him.
Because if you track their

639
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,600
conversations, every single one
ends with his dad disagreeing

640
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,040
with Andrew's choices.
For sure.

641
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,360
Which makes for an interesting
like, OK, so my dad doesn't

642
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,480
understand me even though he's
nice about it.

643
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,920
So who is going to understand me
and understand what I care

644
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,000
about?
It's going to be this guy.

645
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,040
So normally there would be a
triangle for Andrew to get out

646
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,320
of this or to get some anxiety
out of the system.

647
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,280
But instead it always goes back
to parents every time.

648
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,040
It just keeps going back to him
and it they were like,

649
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:24,320
inevitably drawn towards each
other because of their focus.

650
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,920
And it kind of creates this
weird synergistic, emotional.

651
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,640
What do you call it?
It's codependency.

652
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:32,680
Yeah.
I mean in a lot of ways.

653
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,800
And the very end of the movie,
my favorite shot in the whole

654
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,280
movie, is, is might not be what
you expect, but he's been

655
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,080
embarrassed by Fletcher on
stage.

656
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,920
And his dad gives him a hug and
he's like, come on, let's go

657
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,560
home.
And then Andrew breaks away and

658
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,600
goes back and again as an
audience member, at first you're

659
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,320
like, yeah, he's going to go
stick it to that guy.

660
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,400
He's going to prove him wrong.
And as Andrew gets into his solo

661
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,040
and become something like
otherworldly and not human

662
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,760
anymore, like truly monstrous on
stage, they cut back to his dad

663
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,800
looking through the door and
like literally like shrinking

664
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,320
away in horror at what his son
has become.

665
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:15,560
And it's this great because the
whole movie they've been

666
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,640
painting this triangle of like,
is he going to go with his dad

667
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,280
or is he going to go with his
other perverted father figure in

668
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,560
Fletcher?
And this is him fully embracing

669
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,440
Fletcher.
And then you get the end of the

670
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,040
film where he he hits the snare
and looks up and it's this like

671
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,000
hopeful, like, please accept me
dad look.

672
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,400
And then you get that like
demonic smile from Simmons.

673
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,200
And that's the end of the movie.
And it's like, holy crap, dude.

674
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,600
It's, I mean, it is dealing with
so many parasocial

675
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,480
relationships, codependent
relationships in a way that is

676
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,960
just absolutely terrifying.
Am I right in calling this a

677
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,520
horror film of sorts?
Oh dude, 100%.

678
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,520
And I think the reason Simmons
wins an Academy Award here is

679
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,800
not just for all the bombastic,
ridiculous things that he does.

680
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,880
It's for the moment that he
picks up the symbol that Neiman

681
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,200
has dropped, has knocked over.
Dude.

682
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,240
The way he picks that up and
looks at Neiman, it's as if.

683
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:24,560
It's completely, it's like, it's
like he has locked in on this

684
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,560
guy as a peer and then they're
just like bro and out together

685
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,440
and it's almost creepier to see
him being friends with this guy.

686
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,840
It's a completely different
character than you've seen in

687
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,320
the whole movie.
Well, it, it feels like almost

688
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,960
like a maternal mothering, like
like here you go, here's your

689
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,760
toy.
I'm going to take care of you.

690
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,920
I'm here to nurture you.
I like, I can't communicate the

691
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,600
ickiness that I felt watching
him put that symbol back up.

692
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,160
And like, it's moments like that
why you hire JK Simmons and why

693
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,840
he wins an Oscar.
Yeah, also if you need pictures

694
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,840
of Spider Man, you can hire him
too.

695
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,520
Like those are really the two
reasons you hire the guy.

696
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,560
You know who I think of it.
It hit me as we've been talking

697
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,760
about him, I think of JK Simmons
and Willem Dafoe in a very

698
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,000
similar category of like some of
the absolute best actors that we

699
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,840
have that don't give an absolute
RIP about Academy Awards, about

700
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,040
making money.
They just love the craft of

701
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,880
acting.
Well guys, on that note, I think

702
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,760
it's a good time for us to hit
pause.

703
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,680
Brad and I have to go drink some
very pricey whiskey and then

704
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,640
after we're done doing that.
The the horrors.

705
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,080
I'll tell you what the things we
do for you, film and Whiskey

706
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,320
Nation.
After that we'll come back and

707
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,800
I'm going to give my let's make
it a double way early because I

708
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,040
want to talk about it with you
guys.

709
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,440
Brad, what do you say we drink
some whiskey?

710
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,680
I am ready, Robert.
Let's get to it.

711
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,440
All right.
Today we are continuing our trip

712
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,600
through last year's Buffalo
Trace Antique Collection.

713
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,480
We've now done three of them,
which means we have two left.

714
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:13,080
And the fourth one in our list
is Sazerac Rye.

715
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,760
Now, Brad, we have tried the
much cheaper alternative to this

716
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,600
Sazerac rye, which is known as
colloquially as Baby Saz.

717
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,680
That's the one you can get for
like 30 bucks.

718
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,000
But because it's made by Buffalo
Trace, even that is sometimes

719
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,520
hard to find.
We did that way back in like

720
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,000
like season 2 or 3.
So this is not that.

721
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,960
This is the Sazerac 18 year
whiskey and this particular

722
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,960
bottle is coming in at 18 years
and five months old.

723
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,160
Brad is.
So it was bottled.

724
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:50,160
I'm sorry it was barreled in
like May of 2005.

725
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,640
Dang, think about the world in
2005, Bob.

726
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,320
I was finishing up my freshman
year of high school.

727
00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:00,760
Sure was.
Yeah, Iraq going on kind of a

728
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,360
big deal.
Like, it's not the Iraq war,

729
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,120
it's just Iraq.
Iraq was happening, you know, it

730
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:13,560
was the nation of Iraq.
Have you ever tried Sazerac ride

731
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,560
before, Brad?
Like the the big boy here.

732
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,960
I don't think I have I I think
this is my first time in and I'm

733
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,040
curious about this 90 proof
point.

734
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,680
Yeah, they water it all the way
down to 90 proof.

735
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,360
It's something to do every year
and that's probably because when

736
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,520
you look at the fact sheet on
this, because it's so old, 74%

737
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,520
of the initial volume has been
lost to evaporation.

738
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,120
So only 1/4 of the barrel is
remaining.

739
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,280
They frankly, they could
probably sell this for more than

740
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,440
they do given how old it is.
It was 135 proof off the still

741
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,760
barrel entry proof was 125.
So I have to imagine what was

742
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,360
left in the barrel was like
hazmat level, so they would have

743
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,760
had to water it down anyway.
But 90 proof, that's what we're

744
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,520
working with here today, man.
Yeah.

745
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:03,800
And I, you know, based on what
they do with the stag and what

746
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,440
did, what did we have last week,
the Weller, Like, I don't know,

747
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,560
I think he probably could have
kept it at 135 proof and I

748
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,200
would've been fascinated at what
that whiskey tastes like.

749
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,240
All right man, let's dive in.
I'm really excited.

750
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:18,560
I literally just poured this out
and as I'm pouring it into my

751
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:24,320
glencairn, I got a whiff from 2
feet away of honeydew and

752
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,880
cantaloupe.
This is super melon heavy.

753
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,000
I'm going to let it kind of calm
down a little bit in my glass

754
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,600
while you give your nosing
notes, Brad.

755
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,640
I think once it settles down, it
actually mellows out into this

756
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,400
really nice.
There's brown sugar, there's

757
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:45,120
cinnamon, there's like a
freshness of the rye and mint

758
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,200
flavors coming through, and it
really just kind of reminded me

759
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,880
of like a nice cinnamony Raisin
bread with a little bit of that

760
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,280
fruitiness coming in.
I think this is an absolutely

761
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,680
stellar nose.
I'm going to give it a nine and

762
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,440
a half.
I like this a lot.

763
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,480
There is something like it's
really complex and there is a

764
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,800
significantly more aroma than I
would expect from a 90 proof rye

765
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,320
and that is obviously due to it
being 18 years old.

766
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,880
There's a note in here that I
can't quite put my finger on.

767
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:21,080
It's that sort of yeastiness
that we get on younger rise, not

768
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,000
even like too young, like a one
or two year old, but like a four

769
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,680
year rye.
And some of that is still

770
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,120
hanging around here, which is
really interesting to me because

771
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,080
I would have expected this to be
a much more kind of concentrated

772
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,160
potent nose.
And everything you're saying is

773
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,720
here.
But then there's just this one

774
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:42,480
little whiff of like, huh, this
tastes like, or this smells like

775
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,040
an 18 year old rye with just a
hint of like a four year old rye

776
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,200
in it.
So I'm a little bit lower than

777
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:49,560
you.
I'm going to give it an 8 1/2 on

778
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,960
the nose.
Yeah, and I think the palate,

779
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,480
there is a lot of really nice
flavors here.

780
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,280
I think that youth comes out in
a little bit of a straw flavor,

781
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,240
but the the mint comes through
nice and strong.

782
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,000
The rye is all there.
It's a little bit Clovy, some

783
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,160
vanilla really punches through
and it and it kind of reminded

784
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,400
me of like like a cream cheese
icing that you put on a cinnamon

785
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,560
roll that like there are some
really nice, beautiful fit

786
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,360
flavors here.
And it just confirms to me again

787
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:26,960
that the best Ryze out there are
a mixture of the really nice,

788
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:35,440
beautiful minty rye notes with a
depth of and richness of flavor

789
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,200
with that that cream cheese
icing and vanilla and a little

790
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,240
bit of brown sugar.
I think this is a stellar

791
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,400
palette that I'm going to give a
nine out of 10 to.

792
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,480
All right, dude, Are you ready
for this?

793
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,120
I think, I think I'm going to
have my first really spicy take

794
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,080
on VTAC.
I'm let down by this like a lot.

795
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,760
So I keep a little bottle of
whiskey next to our kind of

796
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,840
recording station here that I
use kind of as my baseline.

797
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,960
Like if I, if I don't feel like
my palate's quite ready to start

798
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,000
tasting whiskey, I'll have just
a, a little sip of that to kind

799
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,600
of set a baseline expectation
for what whiskey does on my

800
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,720
palate.
And I drank that and then I

801
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:19,960
started drinking the B tack.
And this is, this is much more

802
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,840
sour.
Obviously it's rye.

803
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,120
So like I'm expecting it to have
a little bit of those sort of

804
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,200
like mint and dill notes.
But the youthfulness that I

805
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,120
picked up on the nose, which
does not make sense.

806
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,360
Like this is 18 years old.
It is not young.

807
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,680
It carried through to the palate
for me.

808
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,640
It's a little bit too sour.
It's a little bit too grassy and

809
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:41,960
I think what, what'd you say?
Straw?

810
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,280
Straw's a good note here, but it
doesn't bring any sort of

811
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,040
caramel notes.
It doesn't bring even, it

812
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,000
doesn't even tip into like dill
or mint.

813
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,040
It just kind of has a really
strong earthy tone.

814
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,880
And I feel like the rye grain is
swallowed up in this kind of

815
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,080
sourness.
Now.

816
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:05,160
There was a slight hint of those
like grandma strawberry candies

817
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,560
that I got.
And I was like oh interesting,

818
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,160
2nd sip it was gone again.
I'm really really disappointed

819
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,760
in this man.
I'm just going to give this a 7

820
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,720
out of 10.
Yeah, you are way off from where

821
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:20,240
I'm at because I I think that
there are some really beautiful

822
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,320
flavors here.
I think as I got into the

823
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,280
finish, the rye really finishes
things out nicely.

824
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,560
It turns a little bit vegetable.
The leather starts to come

825
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,920
through with the age.
It has a little bit of an

826
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,280
apricot kind of fruity type of
flavor that lingered for a long

827
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,160
time.
It is a really long, mellow

828
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:45,440
finish that I am all about.
I like I'm sticking in this 9

829
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,360
zone Baba.
I'm at a nine and a half on the

830
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,840
finish.
Yeah, man, we have had a lot of

831
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,280
really great rise on this show,
and this is just not one of them

832
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,320
for me.
I mean, it's it is fine, but

833
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:01,080
it's surprisingly one note.
And that note is just kind of

834
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,600
grassy.
So if you're into an earthy

835
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:09,040
flavor, it does kind of remind
me of like an entry level Scotch

836
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,760
in that regard.
Like it, it has that sort of

837
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,320
earthy barley flavor to it.
It just doesn't remind me of a

838
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,520
good rye.
And it's a little bit bitter, a

839
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,920
little bit sour.
It has kind of that toasted oak

840
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,040
note that I don't like sometimes
where the toast on the instead

841
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,920
of the char, the toast on the
barrel can impart a kind of sour

842
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,840
flavor.
This is not doing it for me.

843
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,280
Man.
B.Tech, what the hell?

844
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,720
7 out of 10.
Jeez, yeah, I think balance

845
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,160
wise, we're at a nine out of 10.
I think there's a decent amount

846
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,840
of complexity here.
It is not the most complex of

847
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,480
the B tax.
I I would say that so far this

848
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,440
is the least complex and that's
why I'm only at a nine.

849
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,560
But I think the flavors you do
get are awesome.

850
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,120
Awesome is a very generous term
and I'm, I'm going to say, for

851
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,320
me at least, decidedly not
awesome.

852
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,720
I'm going to go ahead and give
this just a 7 out of 10.

853
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,920
Again, I like, I don't want to
tip into value yet my value

854
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,000
score is going to be
horrifically low on this.

855
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:17,640
Brad, I I mean, can we at least
agree that this is a step down

856
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,480
from the last two weeks?
Yeah, I I do think that, I think

857
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:27,000
that if this was in the hundred
110 proof range, it would be

858
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,960
much, much better.
I'm going to give it.

859
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,120
I'm going to give it one more
sip.

860
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,240
This is your last chance,
Sazerac, Because there's

861
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:38,040
something within me that's like,
I cannot, I can't give a $1500

862
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,960
whiskey this low of a score.
But I'm I'm pretty sure I'm

863
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,480
going to.
Well, while you're doing that,

864
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,600
I'm going to go into value I I
think that this is not as good

865
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:53,280
as the rest of the lineup.
It's just too expensive for

866
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,400
something that's proofed down to
90.

867
00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:57,640
Like I said, I don't mind that
they proof it down.

868
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,400
Like you lost a lot in
evaporation.

869
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:05,680
Add a little water, take it from
1:30 down to 115, one O 5, but

870
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,800
all the way down to 90.
I think that it restricts the

871
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,200
amount of notes that you can
have on it.

872
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,000
There's not quite enough
complexity.

873
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:19,240
I'm going to give it a 6 1/2 on
value, like in the category of

874
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:23,080
luxury whiskey.
I think this is an OK value, but

875
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,720
not something that's going to
knock your socks off.

876
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,400
Yeah, my, my suspicions are
confirmed here.

877
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,040
This just has kind of a
generically almost mass produced

878
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,200
vodka kind of flavor profile on
the front of the palate where

879
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,560
you can tell that there's
ethanol and then some sort of

880
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,160
not very well done grain
mixture.

881
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,440
And then on the back of the
palate it gets really bitter and

882
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,760
herbal.
And that's fine for some things,

883
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,680
but it kind of, it almost had
the effect of like when you and

884
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,480
I have met up with our buddy
Chris Blattner and done malort

885
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,520
shots with him.
Like there's, there's that sort

886
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,920
of not even quite black licorice
annis, but the Super bitter

887
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,680
herbs on the back end of a
malort are on the back of my

888
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,680
palate right now.
This is not great.

889
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,880
And I have been giving B.Tech a
baseline score of five out of 10

890
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,160
on value because I just don't
think that I can go any lower or

891
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,160
higher on any of them.
This one has proved me wrong.

892
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,960
I can go lower than five.
I'm going to give this a three

893
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,560
out of 10 on value, which is
bringing my final score to a

894
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,520
32.5.
Brad, where are you?

895
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,080
I am 11 points higher than you.
I'm at a 43.5.

896
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,040
I don't know if we've ever had a
season where you and I have been

897
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,040
so divergent.
Yeah, yeah, this is a massive

898
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,840
difference in opinion.
I mean, I like, I love Ryze.

899
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,480
I think that this offers so much
of what rye can do.

900
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,520
It just needs to be like 15
proof points higher and I would

901
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,440
be in that upper echelon 45
plus.

902
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,680
I was going to say our our last
two weeks have been approaching

903
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,120
the 90 mark, which is just an
excellent whiskey, not just

904
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:10,600
great, but truly excels.
And this week we're at a 38 out

905
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,760
of 50 due to my low score.
Now I will say like I think that

906
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,760
score does represent that both
of us agree that this is a step

907
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,720
down from the last two weeks.
Whether you think it's a good

908
00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:26,200
whiskey or not, I don't know
that this belongs in the price

909
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,760
echelon of the other B.Tech
offerings.

910
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,040
Like I'd probably be a little
less harsh on this if this sold

911
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,960
for MSRP and not for 10 times
MSRP.

912
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,080
But this kind of seems like the
the odd one out of the line up

913
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,480
so far.
Here, I'm going to be honest

914
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,640
with you, Bob, I'm looking back
at my scores.

915
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,680
I gave the WL Weller a 40 out of
50.

916
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,680
So I like, while like just
memory serving me, I feel like I

917
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,400
liked the Weller more.
I scored it 3 1/2 points lower

918
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,880
than the rye.
So I I do like this rye a lot.

919
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,520
I think it's a really good
whiskey.

920
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,400
You know what is good, Brad?
What's that?

921
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,240
This the 2014 film Whiplash.
What a film.

922
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,040
What a freaking movie.
We should have used JK Simmons

923
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,280
little one liners as as notes on
our.

924
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,600
Oh that would have been perfect.
Man.

925
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,960
I Is he like the greatest
villain of all time?

926
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,280
He's, I mean, he's certainly the
most villainous villain.

927
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,880
He's so good.
All right, man, let's get back

928
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,000
into talking with our friend
Jordan about whiplash.

929
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,160
What do you say?
Let's get to it.

930
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,600
All right, everybody.
That was Sazerac Rye from the

931
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,520
2023 batch, a whiskey that hits
the spot.

932
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,040
But man, that's a lot of money,
Bob.

933
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,800
It's a lot of money, man.
Didn't quite do it for me.

934
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,360
Not quite my tempo, Brad.
No, not, not not quite my tempo.

935
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,040
He doesn't he doesn't so good to
the first like 6 times.

936
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,720
Not, not not quite my.
Tempo and it's it's the fact

937
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:07,800
that he does it like 6 times,
just completely calm, completely

938
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,400
loving.
To the point where you, well,

939
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,880
and you can tell by like the
third time he's screwed with

940
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,320
him.
And then it's like right before

941
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:20,400
he jumps up to were you rushing
or were you dragging anyway?

942
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,640
Well, hey man, Speaking of being
right on tempo, your boy is

943
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,240
four.
And oh, this season at our next

944
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,000
game, which we call 2 facts and
a falsehood.

945
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:37,720
He's going to try to stump you.
Ball 2 are right and what is

946
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,040
wrong?
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts

947
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,760
and a Falsehood is the part of
the show where Brad presents me

948
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,800
with three items as fact about
the making of this movie, one of

949
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,200
which is a complete lie and I
have to guess which one that is.

950
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,600
Now I have a ringer on hand
today.

951
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,160
Jordan McCain, expert in
parasocial relationships.

952
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,600
So hopefully all the questions
are about that sort of thing and

953
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,480
not actually about the making of
the movie.

954
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,400
They're all about family systems
theories.

955
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,640
Who knew?
What does the DSM five say about

956
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,400
dot dot dot?
If you asked me a question about

957
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,840
why the DSM 4 was better than
the DSM 5:00, I could go on

958
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,880
about that all day.
I saw a meme on Instagram the

959
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,800
other day that was like, girl,
you're the you're the kind of

960
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,440
girl that they write books
about.

961
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,040
Then the next page was a picture
of the DSM 5.

962
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,080
Jordan, has it been explained to
you how this process works?

963
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:37,760
I think so.
I think I get it.

964
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,680
I'm not going to say anything
unless you ask.

965
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,480
Yeah, yeah.
So Brad is a stickler with this.

966
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,440
When we have a guest on the
show, I can seek your counsel.

967
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:50,240
But once I seek your counsel,
even if I choose a different

968
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:53,960
answer than what you gave me, he
considers that I have received

969
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,640
your counsel.
So if I get the question

970
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,920
correct, I get one victory, but
if I get it wrong, I get 2

971
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,760
losses for having been LED
astray by our guest.

972
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:08,080
Yeah, it, it's kind of like the
the game show the the three

973
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:12,160
doors theory where if I, if I
show you the open door and you

974
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,680
switch, you have a higher chance
of winning.

975
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,440
I if you seek advice, you have a
higher chance of winning.

976
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,320
So it there should be some
stakes here.

977
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,640
All right.
Well, Brad, hit me with your two

978
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:26,640
facts and a falsehood.
Fact #1 Director Damien Chazelle

979
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,720
took some jazz drumming lessons
for six months to better

980
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:34,240
understand the intricacies of
jazz drumming as he had already

981
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,240
been trained on piano and bass
guitar.

982
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:43,040
Fact #2 Though a visual double
was used for certain sequences.

983
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,840
All of Andrew's drumming was
performed by Miles Teller

984
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,360
himself to pre recorded tracks.
Approximately 40% of Teller's

985
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,520
actual drumming made it into the
final soundtrack.

986
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,800
Fact #3 JK Simmons brought a
personal connection to his role

987
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,400
in Whiplash, having his own
musical background.

988
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,440
His mother was a middle school
music teacher, and his father

989
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,880
served as the director of the
music department at the

990
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,800
University of Montana, where JK
himself earned a degree in

991
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:15,360
music, lending authenticity to
his portrayal of his role as

992
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,320
Terrence Fletcher.
I'm not sure about #3 #2 sounds

993
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,680
kind of true, Jordan, and I'm
just saying, Jordan, because I

994
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,680
want to bounce ideas off of you
as I watch your facial reactions

995
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,880
to what I'm saying.
I'm pretty sure that counts as

996
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,080
asking for no.
Come on.

997
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,160
I'm not.
I haven't asked anything.

998
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,880
Let the record reflect.
I haven't asked for a thing yet.

999
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:43,760
I am pretty sure that Chazelle
was a drummer, not a pianist.

1000
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,320
And so I'm kind of thinking Brad
tried to pull one over on us a

1001
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,160
little bit.
And I'm a little bit tempted to

1002
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:56,360
say #1 is the falsehood?
Because I'm like 95% sure

1003
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,360
Chazelle tried to do jazz
drumming, was not very good at

1004
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,480
it, and then gave it up to
become a film maker.

1005
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,560
That's why I needed lessons.
Come on, dude, have you seen La

1006
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,600
La Land?
You see how much piano is in

1007
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,280
that movie?
You're telling me Chazelle is a

1008
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,600
jazz drummer?
Honestly, here's the thing guys,

1009
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,800
I have never not sought the
counsel of the guest.

1010
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,880
Mostly because it makes for
horrible audio to just talk at

1011
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,200
the guest and then never allow
them to respond.

1012
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,480
So Jordan, you're in this with
me now.

1013
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,600
Aside from #1, did anything else
stand out to you as a potential

1014
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,600
falsehood?
I would agree with you.

1015
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:40,200
AK Simmons does have a degree in
music and I did know that Miles

1016
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,560
Teller, I knew he had been
drumming.

1017
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,920
So I I think a lot of his stuff
was used.

1018
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,920
I don't know, number one would
strike me as the thing I know

1019
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,120
the least about.
That seems the most suspicious

1020
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:53,600
to me.
All right, then I think we're

1021
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,120
going to lock it in, Brad.
I'm I'm staking my reputation,

1022
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:57,600
my four.
No record on this.

1023
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,600
Number one is the falsehood.
Jordan, you were correct.

1024
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:09,440
Miles Teller has been drumming
since he was 15 years old, so a

1025
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,240
lot of his stuff was in fact
used.

1026
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:16,280
And Bob, you were also correct
about fact #1 being the

1027
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,240
falsehood.
I don't know if he was a jazz

1028
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,960
drummer.
I know that he was a jazz

1029
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:24,000
musician based on my research.
Well, let's pull it up here and

1030
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,720
see, see if it's on his
Wikipedia.

1031
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,760
As I do that, let's get back
into talking about the movie,

1032
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,400
guys.
And I said that I was going to

1033
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:35,040
spoil my let's make it a double
film really early.

1034
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,240
And I think it's because it is
so pertinent to the conversation

1035
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,200
that we've been having.
I'm going to pair this movie

1036
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:47,520
with the 8 hour excessively long
documentary The Last Dance that

1037
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,560
came out a couple years ago
about Michael Jordan and the

1038
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,080
Chicago Bulls.
Because Brad, I've been telling

1039
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,560
you ever since that documentary
came out, first of all, it's an

1040
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,240
absolute glazed job on Michael
Jordan.

1041
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,600
Like there it was like not
objective at all.

1042
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,280
However.
I think it did such a good job

1043
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:11,360
of unintentionally giving you an
insight into what that mentality

1044
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,400
does to a person.
Jordan just comes across as the

1045
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:21,160
most bitter, unforgiving,
maladjusted old man who cannot

1046
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:26,160
let go of past slights that were
either real or invented.

1047
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:32,000
And that kind of Mamba mentality
that is so often praised among

1048
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,240
the greats in a sport.
You know, Kobe had it, Michael

1049
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:36,880
had it.
They always say LeBron doesn't

1050
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,720
have that mentality.
And I always look at that and I

1051
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,880
say, well, like, it kind of
seems like some of these guys

1052
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,760
just have their priorities in
line.

1053
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:50,080
Like you could be great at
something and not be a horrible

1054
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,000
person in every other facet of
life.

1055
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,600
And I guess I kind of just want
to explore with you guys.

1056
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,320
Why is it that you think or what
is it do you think is so

1057
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:03,520
appealing to consumers, to fans,
especially in the area of sports

1058
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:10,400
where this obsessive consumed
mentality is lauded in a person?

1059
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,600
And you know, why do we continue
to celebrate it?

1060
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:21,880
I think it's simplicity man.
Like humans crave simplicity in

1061
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:27,880
life and it's so easy to say,
well, they're great because they

1062
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:32,040
cut everything else out and they
spend all their time in the gym

1063
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,440
and they, they don't lose track
of what will make them great.

1064
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,200
They they have that killer
instinct.

1065
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:42,560
And it's just this simple answer
that like massages the part of

1066
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,520
our brain that wants everything
to be obvious.

1067
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,920
And I like, I think it's way
more than that.

1068
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:56,920
And I also think that we
celebrate greatness in one area

1069
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,280
at the expense of a million
other areas.

1070
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,880
Yeah, I was going to say in the
first half, but Bob, it's so

1071
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:09,600
funny you call this a horror
film because I love that you

1072
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,400
emphasize that.
Because every time I watch this

1073
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:17,920
movie, all I can think of is
Andrew did it like he did the

1074
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,040
thing, like he lived up to the
expectation.

1075
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,840
And that's what my this will
tell you all the viewers and you

1076
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,480
guys, everything you need to
know about me.

1077
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:31,480
All I can think of is like, he
did it, he got to Nirvana or

1078
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,720
whatever like that idea is.
And I think it's because

1079
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:41,480
competency is authority and
authority authoritarian

1080
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,880
structures, bigot authoritarian
structures, bigot authoritarian

1081
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,120
structures.
So like, I watched The Last

1082
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,120
Dance too.
Michael Jordan does not come

1083
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:53,680
across as a in a personal way,
as a good person.

1084
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,680
But there is not a single
basketball player who will ever

1085
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:01,240
be like, yeah, but we don't like
him or like he has.

1086
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:05,960
No, he has no say on the game.
They're like, no, he's kind of

1087
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,320
still the king.
And that's what they're going to

1088
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:13,840
say about Andrew, is he was
formed in an authoritarian

1089
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,560
structure that made him as
competent as humanly possible.

1090
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,160
And someday, if he doesn't kill
himself, he will be the king of

1091
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:26,360
jazz drumming that some other
budding musicians going to

1092
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,200
listen to.
And his and his headphones,

1093
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,080
right?
Just like he was like, I want to

1094
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,240
be like a bird, right?
Like, I want to do it.

1095
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,520
I just think that that's so
appealing depending on how your

1096
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,960
brain works.
And I just when I think about

1097
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:48,640
this movie, I think about how
hard it is for young people to

1098
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,400
see that life is more than a few
moments.

1099
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:58,800
Like at the end of the day, this
movie shows Andrew sacrifice

1100
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:04,520
family relationships and future,
you know, relational, you know,

1101
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:09,400
getting a wife relationships.
Like he has sacrificed 2 of the

1102
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,160
primary things that our society
has said.

1103
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,760
These are paths towards a well
lived life, right?

1104
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,360
Having a healthy family, finding
a good spouse who loves us and

1105
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,400
cares for us.
Like he sacrifices all those on

1106
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,080
a on a path to greatness.
And at the end of the day, we

1107
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:33,000
saw what might have been his
greatest moment ever as a

1108
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:37,560
musician.
And to chase those singular

1109
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:43,160
moments of greatness is to
sacrifice a lifetime of

1110
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,800
well-being and a journey towards
health and healing and all these

1111
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,440
things.
And you sacrifice all that for

1112
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:54,280
this one moment of greatness
where this demon looks on at you

1113
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:58,120
with a motherly love.
And, like, that's freaking

1114
01:04:58,120 --> 01:04:59,280
terrifying.
Yeah.

1115
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:01,080
Well, I keep calling it a horror
movie.

1116
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:04,400
It's probably not an accident
that this movie was produced by

1117
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,280
Blum House Pictures.
I don't know if you guys saw

1118
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,760
that on the credits, but Blum
House known for making low

1119
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,560
budget horror movies, they have
become like the horror studio

1120
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,440
over the last 10 years.
And it's partially because they

1121
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:20,280
just find low budget movies that
they believe in and they end up

1122
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,600
being super profitable for them.
But this movie cost $3.3 million

1123
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,640
to make.
It made $50 million at the

1124
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,600
domestic box office.
Not bad and I think watching it

1125
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,680
this time I'm so impressed with
Chazelle both in like the

1126
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,520
kinetic camera work of his
filmmaking in this movie, but

1127
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:43,360
also as a writer.
And I think the the huge success

1128
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,360
of this film is that it does not
spoon feed you exactly what to

1129
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:47,920
think about the people in this
movie.

1130
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,640
JK Simmons is an obvious
villain.

1131
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,000
Like he is one of the most
demonic and quite quite frankly

1132
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,960
like scene chewing villains in
the history of villainy.

1133
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:02,840
However, like, you can still
have that moment of Andrew did

1134
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,800
it at the end of the movie like
he's on the mountaintop.

1135
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:10,680
And it makes me feel even ickier
as an audience member that I am

1136
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:16,280
rooting for the demise of
someone's soul in real time.

1137
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:22,400
And Chazelle does such a good
job of allowing you to feel the

1138
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,400
tension of both of those things
without telling you which is

1139
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,880
right to feel and which is wrong
to feel.

1140
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,240
Fred, I'm just wondering, like
from a film making perspective,

1141
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,480
what were some of the techniques
that you noticed this time

1142
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:34,320
around?
Like what?

1143
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:39,600
What was Chazelle doing that
signaled to the world that he

1144
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,000
was like a a young force to be
reckoned with here?

1145
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:48,880
I think it's his ability to a
hone in on people's faces.

1146
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:55,560
Like anytime a director can draw
a beautiful performance out of

1147
01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:02,040
his actors with super close-ups
is always impressive to me, and

1148
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,480
it's his.
I think it's his sound design,

1149
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:10,360
like the ability he has to give
you these wildly, violently loud

1150
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:17,080
moments of musical expression
paired with so many quiet

1151
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,480
moments throughout the film of
Andrew having quiet

1152
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:26,280
conversations with Melissa,
what's her last Benoit, I think,

1153
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,240
or with his dad put, you know,
Paul Reiser.

1154
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,080
I like, I think that there's
just so many small moments

1155
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:38,720
throughout the film that allow
the big moments to shine that I

1156
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,200
like.
I think Chazelle is on to

1157
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,040
something here.
And like I said at the start, he

1158
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:48,960
never allows anything to
distract the camera, the sound

1159
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:54,920
design, the acting, the script,
like nothing distracts from this

1160
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,800
manic thrust towards the finish
line.

1161
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:00,800
There's only a few things in the
movie too.

1162
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,800
If we're talking about the way
the movie shot it's, it works

1163
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,440
really well because it's low
budget and they do a good job of

1164
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,640
capturing like the griminess of
New York City.

1165
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:14,680
But everything has that sickly
green hue to it of neon and

1166
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,760
streetlights.
And there's only a couple

1167
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:20,399
locations in the whole film that
have a different color palette.

1168
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:25,200
You see it really early on in
the concession stand where his

1169
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,720
future and then former
girlfriend works.

1170
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,000
And it's because it's like the
object of Andrew's desire.

1171
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,040
It's where he feels the most
sense of comfort and longing.

1172
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:37,880
And like, that's where he finds,
for lack of a better term, like

1173
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,439
belonging.
Like, he wants that girl.

1174
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,240
And then you find it in the
classroom of JK Simmons.

1175
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:49,880
Like, there is a weird warm tone
to that classroom that doesn't

1176
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,120
exist anywhere else.
And then you finally get it on

1177
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,240
stage at the end of the movie
when he starts his solo and the

1178
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:59,760
lighting changes there.
And it's like a very obvious use

1179
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,760
of color.
But it also does such a good job

1180
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,840
at getting into the psychology
of this character and how he

1181
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,479
doesn't feel comfortable
anywhere else.

1182
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,520
He doesn't feel like he belongs
anywhere else.

1183
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,720
He clearly doesn't want to be
anywhere else than just in those

1184
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,880
few places because he is like
putting all of his identity eggs

1185
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:22,720
in that basket.
All right guys, I've I've been

1186
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,080
going on Jordan's over here
falling asleep.

1187
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,439
We got to get to Jordan here.
And I think in order to do that,

1188
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,279
it's time for our last segment
of the day, which we call let's

1189
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:33,720
make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1190
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,080
episode, so thanks listening to
the film and Whiskey show.

1191
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,640
Let's have another film with
this one, even if it's

1192
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,319
struggling.
It's the final segment of the

1193
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:42,760
day.
Now let's make it a double.

1194
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,560
Let's Make It a Double is the
part of the show where we pick a

1195
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,439
movie to pair up with this one
to make the perfect double

1196
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,960
feature.
Jordan, I've already called you

1197
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:53,680
out, so we're putting you on the
spot here.

1198
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:55,960
I've given my Let's make it a
Double.

1199
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:57,560
What would you pair Whiplash
with?

1200
01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:01,640
There are only three movies
where at the end of the movie as

1201
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,200
soon as the credits roll, I have
thought to myself I would really

1202
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,360
like to watch that again
immediately.

1203
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:13,000
They are Whiplash, Inception and
then the movie.

1204
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,120
I would suggest for the double
feature if you want a more

1205
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,600
positive tone is La La Land.
I would pick La La Land.

1206
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,120
Very similar feel.
I love musicals.

1207
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,200
It'll very much get you into a
better headspace.

1208
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:28,000
Still like a little bit
depressing but far less of like

1209
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,160
the manipulation.
If I can add a second since you

1210
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,440
added the last dance because
this popped into my head

1211
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:36,520
immediately.
If you want to feel just as bad

1212
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:43,240
or worse about excellence, I
would watch FXS the Bear.

1213
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:49,080
If you watch the Bear, it has a
very similar philosophy to

1214
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:53,200
pursuing Exodus or excellence,
pursuing excellence at the

1215
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:58,320
expense of yourself.
And it is just as intense and it

1216
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:02,600
feels just as icky at times.
But then there are still those

1217
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:07,520
moments of like, these are the
greatest chefs ever and they're

1218
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,240
going to do it like they're
going to nail it and it's going

1219
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,160
to be amazing.
It's just a really fun way to

1220
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:14,920
watch it.
So I would go in either of those

1221
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,560
directions, just depending on
how you're.

1222
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,160
Feeling all right, Brad?
The gauntlet has been thrown

1223
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:21,360
down.
Those were some good picks.

1224
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,280
I didn't know where else to put
this in Bob, but do you want to

1225
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,160
know when I knew that Andrew
Neiman?

1226
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,800
Neiman was like the real
protagonist of the movie.

1227
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:34,320
I do not.
It's the moment when he looked

1228
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:38,200
at his father and said, I don't
want the Raisinets, I'll just

1229
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:43,400
see you around them.
I was like, take that Bob,

1230
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,920
Raisinets suck.
Dude raisinets are really good.

1231
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,520
The fact that you haven't even
tried them to form your opinion

1232
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:52,280
is what's most frustrating about
it.

1233
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,800
You're like they suck and I am
basing that on nothing but

1234
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:00,480
vibes.
Yes. 100% that That is what our

1235
01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:05,640
country runs on, Bob.
If I were to pair this with

1236
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:09,320
another film, it is going to be
depressing, it is going to be

1237
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:14,040
manipulative, it is going to be
1 Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

1238
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,560
Oh, interesting.
What's your what's your

1239
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,920
reasoning there?
Nurse Ratched?

1240
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:22,040
Oh, yeah.
Good one.

1241
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,960
OK.
I was thinking the Jack

1242
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:25,920
Nicholson route.
I was like, yeah, I don't think,

1243
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,600
I don't think anybody in this
movie gets lobotomized, do they?

1244
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:34,040
But yeah, great pick.
All right, so we've got some

1245
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:37,160
really good explorations of the
human psyche.

1246
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,000
We've got one floor of the
Cuckoo's Nest.

1247
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:44,000
We've got The Last Dance, La La
Land and the Bear for your Let's

1248
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,920
make it a double options.
Let's make it a quintuple.

1249
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,120
Yeah, right.
Today's Let's Make It a Double

1250
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,400
was brought to you by Blackwood
Distilling Company, Kentucky's

1251
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:57,440
distillery specializing in
toasted barrel bourbon and rye.

1252
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,520
No matter what movie you pick,
you can always make it a double

1253
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:04,600
with Blackwood Distilling Co
Brad, let's get into final

1254
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:09,240
scores here.
I like there are tiny, tiny

1255
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,200
flaws in this film.
There were like maybe one or two

1256
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,080
scenes where I thought, oh,
maybe they could have taken a

1257
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,080
different line reading from
Miles Teller or maybe we

1258
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:20,160
shouldn't have had him get hit
by a semi truck.

1259
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:23,240
But even the semi truck thing,
which I thought would be a hang

1260
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,200
up for me in the context of
watching it this time, I was

1261
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:29,880
like no, that's like the next
logical step on his quest to

1262
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,880
make it to the thing on time.
This is a 10 out of 10 dude.

1263
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:40,000
This is a perfect movie.
Like you said, No 10 out of 10

1264
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,800
movie we have ever scored that
that way is actually a perfect

1265
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:48,880
movie because there is no such
thing as a truly perfect movie.

1266
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:54,000
But when you look at the story
that this is telling, the

1267
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:59,600
underlying philosophy that it's
examining the economy of film

1268
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:04,280
usage, to get this in in under
an hour and 40 minutes at like,

1269
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:09,120
this is a hell of a movie, Bob.
And it's easily a 10 out of 10

1270
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,120
for me.
Watch Jordan just come in here

1271
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,760
and be like, yeah, it's a 6 1/2
I.

1272
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:17,400
Don't know, I'd give it like a
solid 3.

1273
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,960
No.
No, it's been in my top five,

1274
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,280
top ten.
I don't know whatever ranking

1275
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:28,440
systems we all use, but I go
back to it frequently.

1276
01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:30,720
It's one of those when you
really want to get back in touch

1277
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,360
with good storytelling, you just
kind of tap it on the shoulder

1278
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,680
and learn and good character
development.

1279
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,680
You know, there's some movies
with great cinematography, great

1280
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,120
story, maybe not the best
characters, but this is a very

1281
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:46,560
much a character driven drama
that just really hits you where

1282
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:49,760
it counts.
Wait, did you give it a score?

1283
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:52,440
I'd give it a 10 out of 10.
Solid 10 out?

1284
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:53,760
Sure.
I heard I heard the

1285
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:57,040
descriptiveness but I need a
number man this this is a

1286
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,840
quantitative podcast.
I don't.

1287
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:03,360
I don't believe in numbers.
Yes.

1288
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:08,360
I'd give it a caravan out of
Claire de Lynch.

1289
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,720
Yep.
How many times have you guys

1290
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,040
like been in the shower since
watching this movie though and

1291
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:20,600
just started being like, it's so
freaking good.

1292
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,480
It's like it's.
I'll tell you a shameful fact is

1293
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:27,000
after the last time I watched
this movie with Brad and some

1294
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:31,800
other guys, I bought an electric
drum set and I have been, I'm an

1295
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,520
amateur drummer ever since
because I was just like, it just

1296
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,480
makes something happen for me to
be able to do it.

1297
01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:41,560
So I I cannot play any of those
riffs or anything, but it is a

1298
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:44,640
magical feeling.
I so want to watch a cut of this

1299
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:48,320
movie where they just CGI in an
electric drum set instead of a

1300
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:51,560
like a real kit.
And so you just hear like,

1301
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,240
that's all you hear the whole
slapping sound.

1302
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,520
Yeah.
It would be a lot of slapping.

1303
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:01,840
There'd just be a slapping
sound.

1304
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,640
Guys, this has been whiplash.
We want to say thank you again

1305
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,440
to our friend Jordan McCain.
Jordan, don't stay away for five

1306
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:10,320
years next time.
Man, this was wonderful.

1307
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,680
It's good to see you.
You let me know, I'm always

1308
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:14,920
available.
We always offer this other

1309
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:16,720
guess.
Is there anything big coming

1310
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,640
down the line for you?
Where can we find you, Jordan?

1311
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,520
Another another kid on the way.
What's going on?

1312
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,360
I'm barely present on social
media.

1313
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,720
Don't look for me.
This is the most exposure I've

1314
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:31,640
had in a long time.
Well, Brad, we are going to

1315
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,520
continue a small run of movies
with one word in the title next

1316
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:38,640
week with the 2019 Best Picture
winner.

1317
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:43,120
We're talking about Bong Joon
Ho's Parasite, so join us for

1318
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,640
Parasite next week if you want
to let us know what you think of

1319
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,920
Whiplash.
By the way, you can find us on

1320
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,560
any of our social medias,
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,

1321
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:56,760
Tiktok, YouTube at Film Whiskey.
Or you can join the conversation

1322
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:01,280
on Discord, a platform where the
conversations stay private and

1323
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:03,720
we have an opportunity to talk
about things that we all love

1324
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,800
and care about, like movies,
whiskey, and almost anything

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else.
So if you want to join the

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01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,040
conversation, you can find a
link at the end of any single

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one of our show notes.
Join us for Parasite next week.

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01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:18,680
Happy Halloween, everybody, and
until then, I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad G.
And we'll see you next time.