The Prestige / Quarter Horse Bourbon (feat. Bilge Ebiri)

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In 2006, director Christopher

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Nolan and stars Christian Bale
and Hugh Jackman gave the world

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a mysterious thriller that had
role reversals galore.

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In 2023, we make a return trip
to Kentucky to try a brand of

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mysterious origin.
The film is the prestige.

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The whiskey is Quarter Horse
Bourbon.

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We'll review them both.
This is the.

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Film and Whiskey Podcast.
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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Podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad Gee.
And this week we are continuing

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the Christopher Nolan
retrospective.

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With his 2006 film The Prestige.
Bob, doesn't retrospective mean

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like they are no longer with us?
Isn't that what it's called at

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the Oscars?
No, that's like in memoriam.

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Oh, OK.
Yeah.

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Yeah, well, regardless, we're
looking back on some Christopher

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Nolan films.
He is very much not dead at the

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time of recording, so.
I'm glad to hear that also at

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the time of recording, like, do
you expect him to just?

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Listen man, you got to, you got
to prepare, you got to be

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prepared for these kind of
things.

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So man, Brad's a new world
record.

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We have gone off the rails in 32
seconds on this podcast.

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Today it's it's quite
impressive, Bob.

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All right, so Brad let me set
the stage a little bit with The

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Prestige.
This is a movie like Memento

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that I have not watched in a
long time, partially because I

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remember when I first watched
it, I was not the world's

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biggest fan of it, and I know
that it has since become.

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One of Nolan's best loved films.
And there are people who will,

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like, fight you to the death
about The Prestige.

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And I did not want to come in
here and crap all over The

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Prestige.
And I was trying to kind of

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hedge a little bit and make sure
that there was somebody to

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balance me out.
Luckily, Brad, we have a guest

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on this show today.
He is a film critic, one of the

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nation's preeminent film
critics, Writer for Vulture in

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New York magazine.
Bilga Abiri, Bilga, how are you

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doing today?
I'm good.

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How are you?
I'm doing great and I feel like

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I can already sense in your
voice that you don't know where

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I'm going to go with my thoughts
on The Prestige.

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So let me just say upfront, Brad
Bilga, this is a damn good

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movie.
It sure is now, now so, so that

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you are one of the people who
has changed their opinion of the

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Prestige, because there are a
lot of those people.

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Very much so, yeah.
Yeah, Bob, I am so glad that

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you've come around on this film
because it's a movie I remember

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seeing when it came out in the
theaters.

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I believe I went with my dad and
my brother to see it, and I I

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just remember being blown away
by how cool it was.

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The problem that I had with The
Prestige, if I could say that I

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had a problem, was that I
watched it when it came out, and

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then I didn't watch it for
probably a decade, and I would

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always forget because it came
out at the exact same time as

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another magic movie.
And I would always be like,

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wait, was which one was it?
Was it the the prestige or the

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illusion?
I don't remember which one I

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liked because I saw them both in
theater and for the longest

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time, they both stuck in my
brain as as kind of the same

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movie.
Well, let's get this out of the

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way now.
Let's talk about this the the

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double bill of magic movies we
had in 2006, Brad, we didn't

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know what we had at the time.
What what a time to be alive to

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get these two movies.
I really liked The Illusionist

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when that movie came out, and I
was really hoping to be able to

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go back and revisit it before
today because I was the guy that

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was like, you guys are dead
wrong.

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The Illusionist is a much better
film than The Prestige.

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I really loved it when it came
out.

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I'm bummed I didn't get to
revisit it, but I think that my

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big problem with The Prestige
that I didn't have with The

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Illusionist was that we were in
like Peak Shyamalan.

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The wake of M Night Shyamalan on
Hollywood and how every movie at

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the time was being marketed as
if the twist was the key to the

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whole film.
And I remember with The Prestige

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being like, I don't think that
that was the way to market this

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movie because, you know, they
don't give you all the cards

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until the end of the film.
But if you're paying attention,

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like, no one's really not trying
to hide the twist of the movie

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from you.
And I remember kind of holding

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Nolan accountable for what the
marketing of the movie had done.

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And I think that really kind of
tainted my appreciation of the

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movie at the time.
So I don't know, man.

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All that to say, I don't know
how The Illusionist holds up,

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but The Prestige divorced from
that context, really good movie.

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Yeah, Like I said, I'm, I'm glad
that you say that, Bob, because

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it's coming back to it now.
I believe I watched it again in

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the late, you know, 20 tweens.
Watching it again, probably my

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third or fourth time.
I love this movie, man.

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It just, it hits all the boxes
of a really suspenseful, fun

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thriller.
And I I'm, I'm excited to talk

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about it.
Bill Good, Can you help us set

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the stage for, I mean, like
just, I don't want to say

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historically, like this movie is
not that old, but 2006 Nolan's

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coming off of Batman Begins and
he has this relationship.

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Where it's almost like a, you
know, one for them, one for me

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film that he toggles throughout
the Batman trilogy.

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What do you remember the initial
kind of reception to this film

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being?
With The Prestige, you know.

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But part of it was the 1-2 punch
of the fact that Nolan released

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both of these both Batman Begins
and The Prestige in the same

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year, if I remember correctly.
And and Batman Begins was a hit,

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but Batman Begins, you know, was
was was a.

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Fairly modest hit it wasn't.
It wasn't in a huge hit.

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It was I think it out of making
like $200 million some some

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something thereabouts.
Which was good which was which

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was you know which was good and
and it had decent legs but it

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wasn't like you know, it it it
didn't like blow a hole in the

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box office.
It did however get great reviews

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and I remember, you know I was
kind of Issy on Nolan before

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Batman Begins.
I I liked Memento.

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I found Memento very clever.
I did not like insomnia.

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I didn't quite know what to make
of him.

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And then Batman Begins, I had
zero interest in a new Batman

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movie.
But, you know, then friends of

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mine were like, oh, you got to
go see it, you know?

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And and I went and saw it and I
loved it.

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And and then when The Prestige
came out, I was like, all right,

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this, this, this is a major
dude.

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This this guy's making money,
you know, this guy's churning

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them out.
And and ironically enough, it's

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the last time he churned them
out.

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But.
You know, and the films contain

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a number of elements that are
that are similar.

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I mean, obviously, you know,
there are themes that run

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throughout Nolan's films and
stylistic, you know, flourishes

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and things like that, but the
stories are very different.

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I I will say I I also saw The
Illusionist around that time.

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I hated The Illusionist.
I have revisited it, but I

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thought that movie was absolute.
Garbage.

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You mean Jessica Biel as the the
main female over Scarlett

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Johansson didn't intrigue you?
I will say this, I am a Jessica

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Biel fan.
There you go.

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And it's got Giamatti.
I mean, it's a yeah, nothing

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wrong with the cast of that
movie, but I just found it so

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ludicrous and.
You know, I mean think about a

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magic movie, that's tough is it
has to, it has to dazzle you in

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some way.
But it's like cinematically it's

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it's hard to dazzle you with
magic tricks because it's like,

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I mean it's movies you can, you
can do whatever, like, you know,

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the idea of a magic trick is is
you know and ask them at the

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movies, even though movies share
qualities with magic and and

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many qualities with sort of the
way magic evolved.

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But what I love about The
Prestige is it does kind of

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through its twists and through
its use of distraction and red

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herrings and things like that,
it actually does kind of make

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you feel like you've seen a
magic trick.

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That's that's the thing that I
loved about it and the other

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thing about it and and and you
know it's it's interesting to

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hear you guys talk about
revisiting it.

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You know Nolan has made movies
that.

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Sometimes they're sometimes
people think of them as puzzle

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movies and sometimes people
think of them as twist movies.

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I mean this is 1.
Obviously the Inception is

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another.
And sometimes people use that as

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kind of a knock against them.
But what I would say is you know

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the class puzzle movie or twist
movie.

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You know the the twist or the
puzzle or the solution of the

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puzzle or whatever or like you
know the.

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The mind F at the end of the
movie, like those are often kind

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of the raison debt true of the
film, right?

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That's that's like the film is
basically almost an excuse to

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have the twist or the puzzle or
whatever.

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I don't find that to be the
thing with Nolan movies.

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I mean, I return to them over
and over and over.

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I've seen The Prestige like, you
know, 1015 times at this point.

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You know, I've seen the
Inception even more.

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The puzzle is not.
The puzzle is not the thing.

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The puzzle is the thing that
that maybe creates some level of

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interest and excitement and
engagement with the film.

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But but the film stand on their
own without that.

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And same with the and what I
love about the prestige, you

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know that that idea of
misdirection which is kind of

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the the heart of magic.
He does that here, right?

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I mean because he because he
because he sets up one twist,

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right.
And then at a certain point, you

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kind of realize, you kind of
understand where the movie is

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going and what that twist is.
And that's interesting and it's

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exciting, but it's not actually
the final twist.

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Like, exactly missurrection.
And then and then he brings the

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hammer down in the very final
shot of the movie and you're

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like, whoa, wait a minute.
And then he just fades out, you

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know?
Which is which I think is

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beautiful, interestingly.
I mean, I I don't know if you

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guys have read the book, but the
book is quite different from the

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film.
But yeah, I know.

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So just to say, I was a big fan
of The Prestige then I found it

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interesting some, some I had a
couple of friends who disliked

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it when they first saw it
because they thought, oh, you

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know, this is like a fantasy or
like it's science fiction or

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something like that.
Like like like they they they

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felt like it, it changed genres.
But really it didn't.

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I mean it it.
It it adheres to that old Arthur

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C Clarke saying, which is like,
you know, a great, I can't

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remember the exact saying, but
it's like a great scientific

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discovery is is basically the
the feels no different than a

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magic trick, you know.
Well, and I agree with you, I

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think that yes, he gives, he
brings the hammer down at the

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end of the film, but also he
gives you enough of the twist

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throughout the movie that
watching it through this time.

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I was so much more impressed
with this movie than I was with

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Memento, a movie that I also
like, but that I feel is much

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more about the twist than this
movie is about the twist.

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This movie is so much more about
the deeper themes of obsession

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and artistic integrity and
sacrifice to make art.

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And I think because of that, it
plays much more like a great

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tragedy than anything else.
And.

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Brad, I think we've kind of beat
around the Bush a little bit

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here because I have been waiting
with bated breath to get into

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our first segment of the day,
which we call, Brad explains.

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Brad's going to give us the
movie plots with only 60 seconds

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ticking on the clock, so let's
go ahead and do your take with

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00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,920
this little segment that we
call.

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00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,760
Brad explains.
Brad Explains is the part of the

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00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,960
show where Brad breaks down the
plot of the film that he has

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00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,080
just seen, often for the first
time.

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00:12:36,630 --> 00:12:38,350
I think you've already said this
was like your third or fourth

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00:12:38,350 --> 00:12:41,750
time seeing the film, so
hopefully that will help you as

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00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:43,710
we put 60 seconds on the clock
here.

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Brad, do you think that like and
not to spoil or step on your

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00:12:48,030 --> 00:12:51,950
thing here, but like this is
another sort of Nolan fractured

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00:12:51,950 --> 00:12:55,510
timeline thing.
Do you think that plays into the

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00:12:55,510 --> 00:12:57,510
explanation of the movie at all
or not really?

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00:12:58,630 --> 00:13:03,110
Honestly, not really, because I
don't think he's like, out of

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00:13:03,150 --> 00:13:06,790
all of his films.
I mean, Dunkirk is probably up

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00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:12,550
there, but he's the least clever
about the time stuff here.

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00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:15,670
Like he never tries to trick you
into thinking that one timeline

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00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:18,030
is a different one.
Like, I don't, I like, I don't

238
00:13:18,030 --> 00:13:20,910
know about you guys.
It seemed pretty obvious when we

239
00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:24,830
were going to the past versus
the present, and I don't know.

240
00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:27,390
So, no, I don't think so.
All right, great.

241
00:13:27,390 --> 00:13:29,550
Well then, that makes it a much
more straightforward task for

242
00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:31,310
you, Brad.
You've got one minute on the

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00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:34,790
clock.
Spoil this movie as you go and.

244
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,000
The Prestige is a film about two
magicians in Victorian England,

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00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,640
one of whom was married to a
woman who gets drowned in a

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00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,320
magic trick gone wrong because
the other magician tied the

247
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,040
knots too tight on the rope
she's unable to escape, and this

248
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,880
sets off a decades long rivalry
between the two that becomes, as

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00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,440
you said earlier, Bob,
obsessive, bitter and to the

250
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,110
point of almost evil.
The two men fall in love with

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00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:08,550
the same woman played by
Scarlett Johansson, who works

252
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:13,190
for both of them at different
times, and the movie ends with

253
00:14:13,190 --> 00:14:15,710
one framing the other for
murder.

254
00:14:16,830 --> 00:14:20,430
And it turns out that he is
unable to truly pull that off,

255
00:14:20,590 --> 00:14:26,150
as the final reveal is that the
man framed for murder has a twin

256
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:28,830
brother who has been playing him
the entire time.

257
00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:33,020
And not to bury the lead too
much, but.

258
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:35,500
Nikola Tesla is also going to
say.

259
00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:38,980
Yeah, 1900s cloning.
Yeah, am I right?

260
00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:43,690
Yeah, no, no big deal.
All right, guys.

261
00:14:43,690 --> 00:14:45,250
Where do you want to start
today, Brad?

262
00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:46,810
I'll let you kind of steer us
here.

263
00:14:46,810 --> 00:14:48,330
Do you want to jump right into
performances?

264
00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:51,290
Do you want to keep talking
about the Nolan of it all?

265
00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:53,170
Where should we begin?
I I'm.

266
00:14:53,170 --> 00:14:55,930
Just fascinated by the fact that
David Bowie was in this movie,

267
00:14:56,210 --> 00:14:57,970
right?
I don't know about you guys, but

268
00:14:58,250 --> 00:15:02,010
he he walks on screen and you're
like, huh, that he looks kind of

269
00:15:02,010 --> 00:15:03,690
familiar.
And then you look on IMDb and

270
00:15:03,690 --> 00:15:07,410
you're like, oh, why is David
Bowie in this movie?

271
00:15:07,530 --> 00:15:10,790
And why isn't he in every movie?
He's great, He's great and

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00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:13,230
everything he's doing.
Incredible in this.

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00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:17,310
He's doing a preposterous accent
and I am all for it because, you

274
00:15:17,310 --> 00:15:20,470
know, Nolan really chased after
Bowie to get him in this movie.

275
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:23,510
Apparently Bowie declined a
number of times and Nolan kind

276
00:15:23,510 --> 00:15:25,590
of really pressured him into
being in the film.

277
00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:29,230
And I think that it's such a
stroke of genius in terms of the

278
00:15:29,230 --> 00:15:32,030
casting of it, because like,
what is Bowie associated with,

279
00:15:32,070 --> 00:15:35,070
right?
Like his first big stage persona

280
00:15:35,070 --> 00:15:39,550
is Ziggy Stardust this like.
Maybe futuristic alien that

281
00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:42,750
comes down as like a as like a
savior motif.

282
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:47,110
Bowie always had this sort of
otherness to him and like, what

283
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:50,390
better way to introduce the
themes of science and progress

284
00:15:50,390 --> 00:15:54,550
and the science fiction elements
than to put somebody like Bowie

285
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:57,350
in that role.
I think it's just a stroke of

286
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:58,670
genius just to put him in the
film.

287
00:15:59,110 --> 00:16:01,590
Yeah, the science being
indistinguishable for magic.

288
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:07,310
That feels like a Bowie concept.
But I I want to say, you know,

289
00:16:07,310 --> 00:16:10,910
in in your summary of the film
you said the final reveal is, is

290
00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:14,110
the fact that you know that that
Christian Bale's character is a

291
00:16:14,110 --> 00:16:16,150
twin.
That's not the final reveal of

292
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:19,430
course, right.
I mean the final reveal is that

293
00:16:20,030 --> 00:16:23,030
you know, Hugh Jackman has been
killing himself every single

294
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:29,710
night and and and you know,
burying his, his doppelganger

295
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:33,550
in, you know, tubs of tubs of
water, I mean.

296
00:16:34,380 --> 00:16:38,340
That's the part that that that's
the that that to me is the is

297
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:40,620
the great reveal of the movie.
Because I think at a certain

298
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:43,660
point, there's a certain point
in the film where you realize

299
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:47,460
the the twin thing, I think
where where yeah, it starts to

300
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:55,020
dawn on you around the time when
when Hugh Jackman takes one of

301
00:16:55,020 --> 00:17:00,620
them hostage at that point.
I remember starting to think,

302
00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:03,420
oh, wait, I I see what's going
on here. 1 guy's a twin.

303
00:17:03,420 --> 00:17:05,500
I'm like, I I got it.
I figured out the movie.

304
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:07,780
And of course, of course like
it.

305
00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:11,020
It builds to that.
But then the real, the real

306
00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:13,339
reveal is what Hugh Jackman has
been doing every night.

307
00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:17,819
Can I say, though?
I actually think that I'm.

308
00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:19,740
I don't know if I'm just being
that guy here.

309
00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:24,339
I actually think that the final
reveal of the movie is that

310
00:17:24,339 --> 00:17:28,339
Michael Caine ended up helping
Christian Bale.

311
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:31,750
Because that that's like
literally the last shot of the

312
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:34,990
film when they're with the
daughter and and like Michael

313
00:17:34,990 --> 00:17:38,910
Caine is helping him.
And I I think that for me, you

314
00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:42,670
know, you were talking earlier,
Bilga, about how this film

315
00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:46,470
endures because it's not just
about the twist.

316
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:50,830
And I think that that's why this
movie works, is that it's more

317
00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:56,750
about the dark levels to which
obsession can take you.

318
00:17:57,570 --> 00:18:01,370
And it's about the human drama
between Bale and Jackman.

319
00:18:01,810 --> 00:18:08,290
And like the the idea that that
Kane's character, who once

320
00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:13,290
nailed a guy into a coffin box
for Hugh Jackman, would then

321
00:18:13,290 --> 00:18:17,170
switch sides once he saw how
dark he went is like, that's

322
00:18:17,170 --> 00:18:19,170
like, that's like the twist that
you don't expect.

323
00:18:19,290 --> 00:18:21,840
I I don't know.
No, I love that.

324
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:22,880
It's fair.
Yeah.

325
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,560
No.
And and and you're absolutely

326
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,040
right.
I mean, it really is about the

327
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,840
characters.
I mean, and I think, you know, I

328
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:36,600
I would say the reason why this
movie and I, I, I would agree

329
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,320
with you, it resonates for me
much more than Memento, which is

330
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,440
a Memento is like a perfectly
put together film.

331
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,040
No knock against it.
But there's a certain to me,

332
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,080
there's a certain human drama
missing from it.

333
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:53,020
Not because of what's happening
on screen is actually what's

334
00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:54,780
happening on screen is is very
sad.

335
00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:58,860
But because weirdly, because of
the perspective of the film, for

336
00:18:58,860 --> 00:19:03,060
some reason it's hard to.
I mean, you feel for that

337
00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:06,580
character, but for me, I feel, I
feel in the abstract, in an

338
00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:09,940
abstract way for him, he doesn't
move me the way, yeah.

339
00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:15,020
Bail does in this particularly.
I mean, his face has to look

340
00:19:15,020 --> 00:19:17,420
like a computer that's resetting
every 10 minutes.

341
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:19,300
Yeah, it's hard to connect with
that.

342
00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:22,860
Yeah, yeah, right, right.
Because you know something about

343
00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:27,100
something about memory is is is
is what's, you know what's so

344
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:30,900
moving and and you know, there's
a there's a very sort of, I

345
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:37,860
mean, you know, refined almost
existential aspect to the story

346
00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:43,120
which is the idea that.
You know, Christian Bale or

347
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,800
Borden has been living.
You know, it's not a double

348
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,720
life, It's like a half life,
right.

349
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,880
I mean the idea that these two
men, these, these two, these

350
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,360
twins have basically been
sharing the same life and the

351
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:59,080
same identity.
And it's funny when you read the

352
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,440
book, it's it's more almost more
vivid in the book because it's

353
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,280
like Borden narrates part of the
book.

354
00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:09,300
But it's like the two of them.
So it's like he's constantly,

355
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:11,740
it's almost, it's actually a bit
like Memento because he keeps

356
00:20:11,740 --> 00:20:14,580
forgetting or he keeps reminding
himself of something he said or

357
00:20:14,580 --> 00:20:19,580
did and sometimes speaks about
himself in the third person.

358
00:20:20,540 --> 00:20:23,060
And and later on you realize,
oh, it's because it's actually

359
00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:25,420
two people narrating.
So it's like this, this idea of

360
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:28,900
the divide itself, but not just
divided, but literally living

361
00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:32,900
half lives, right.
It's not, it's not a twin that's

362
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:35,020
hiding.
It's not a twin that's like.

363
00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:39,650
Sometimes filling in for one
person like they they are kind

364
00:20:39,650 --> 00:20:45,450
of they are literally living one
life to the point where their

365
00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:49,530
identities have been subsumed
into one another And that's you

366
00:20:49,530 --> 00:20:53,890
know that's a thing that that is
very, you know it's it's an

367
00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:58,010
abstract notion But somehow no
one in that cast they they make

368
00:20:58,010 --> 00:21:01,930
it very vivid in the film and
and and very moving I find.

369
00:21:01,930 --> 00:21:04,210
And you know that's one of the
things that I every time I

370
00:21:04,210 --> 00:21:07,920
return to the film.
I'm really struck by the beauty

371
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,400
and the power of of Christian
Bale's performance and and his

372
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,440
character.
I really don't think that you

373
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,160
can divorce this film either
from like where it falls in the

374
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,480
Nolan catalog.
This is smack dab between 2

375
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,240
Batman movies and Brad.
We talked last week about how

376
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,200
you you just really can't
underestimate what those Batman

377
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,160
films did for Nolan as he
continued to hone his craft, but

378
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,680
also to develop the themes that
he would continually return to.

379
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:36,180
And I think that with this film,
and to the point you're both

380
00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:39,020
making, the reason this movie
works for me better than it

381
00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:42,700
worked, better than Memento
worked, is because you have

382
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:47,860
characters grappling with their
own humanity and with how far

383
00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:53,980
they are willing to go to either
maintain an illusion or to, you

384
00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:56,820
know, sacrifice themselves in
service of that illusion.

385
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:59,510
And I think with Memento,
because for that character

386
00:21:59,510 --> 00:22:02,750
Leonard, every moment is new.
He doesn't really have to weigh

387
00:22:02,750 --> 00:22:04,990
those options very much.
Like you get one scene at the

388
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:07,950
end where he decides to self
sabotage, right.

389
00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:09,230
And that's the key to the whole
movie.

390
00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:13,070
But you never see him really
grappling with that and to kind

391
00:22:13,070 --> 00:22:14,430
of tie all these things
together.

392
00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:19,230
I think this is best embodied in
Michael Caine's performance and

393
00:22:19,230 --> 00:22:22,390
character of Cutter in this
movie, because to your point,

394
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:24,670
Brad, he is the person that at
the end of the movie.

395
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,120
Has kind of made the biggest.
He is the biggest character arc

396
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:31,480
from defending one of these
rivals to completely being in

397
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,200
the other's camp.
And it's because he's not

398
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,680
allowing himself to go to those
extremes that he saw Hugh

399
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,440
Jackman go.
And I wanted to talk about

400
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,000
Michael Caine's performance
here.

401
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,040
This is the second movie that he
makes with Nolan.

402
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:50,120
He makes 6 films in a row with
Nolan before Dunkirk breaks that

403
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,800
streak.
I think that his performance

404
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,530
here is just pitch perfect.
And really does influence how

405
00:22:57,530 --> 00:23:01,930
much Nolan expands the character
of Alfred in the latter 2

406
00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:04,290
Batman.
Like the story he tells in this

407
00:23:04,290 --> 00:23:08,210
one Brad about the guy drowning
and it being very peaceful and

408
00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:10,170
then he comes back later and
says that was a lie.

409
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:15,350
Like that's that's the exact
same function that the some men

410
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:18,190
just want to watch the world
burn Speech has in the dark

411
00:23:18,190 --> 00:23:20,190
Night.
But you know what He can give

412
00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:23,310
that speech or something that's
like functionally equivalent to

413
00:23:23,310 --> 00:23:26,430
that speech in every movie.
And I will still sign off on

414
00:23:26,430 --> 00:23:28,590
that as a choice because it's
it's freaking great.

415
00:23:28,590 --> 00:23:29,990
I'm.
Just going to eat it up, man.

416
00:23:30,670 --> 00:23:36,190
Michael Caine is a international
treasure like he's he's just

417
00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:40,350
such an incredible actor.
And honestly, like as he was,

418
00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:43,430
you know, giving the second-half
of that speech about drowning,

419
00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:46,670
you know, at the end of the
film, I thought that Hugh

420
00:23:46,670 --> 00:23:49,310
Jackman was acting his butt off
man.

421
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:55,670
Like the the horror on his face
as he, as he's hearing him, like

422
00:23:55,910 --> 00:24:00,070
confirm what his fears are and
even like, you know, watching it

423
00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:04,390
this time through, you catch.
Or at least I caught how.

424
00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:08,780
Hard.
He has his eyes closed while the

425
00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:12,100
people are inspecting the
cloning machine because he knows

426
00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:14,900
that he's about to drown and
like that.

427
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:19,100
Like that hit me this time where
I was just like, man, Hugh

428
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:22,260
Jackman was killer in this
movie, yeah.

429
00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:25,940
Brad, I like, I have so many
thoughts on Hugh Jackman, like

430
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:28,540
let's let's hold on Hugh
Jackman, we'll do Jackman and

431
00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:30,580
Bale at the same time.
But I really Bill Guy, I'd love

432
00:24:30,580 --> 00:24:32,900
to hear your thoughts on Michael
Caine in particular.

433
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:35,530
I mean, Kane is wonderful in
this film.

434
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:37,810
I've actually, over the course
of the past year, I've been,

435
00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:40,930
I've been in the midst of a
Michael Caine rewatch.

436
00:24:42,250 --> 00:24:44,210
I'm watching everything he's
done.

437
00:24:44,370 --> 00:24:44,930
Wow.
So.

438
00:24:45,170 --> 00:24:47,210
So where do The Muppets fall in
for you?

439
00:24:47,770 --> 00:24:49,570
I mean that he well he's he's
he's great.

440
00:24:49,570 --> 00:24:53,450
And that one he's so great.
I actually, I actually have not

441
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:55,530
revisited that one yet because.
Because.

442
00:24:56,770 --> 00:24:59,050
I think in the end it's all
going to result in the ranking,

443
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:03,410
you know, in those rankings it's
going to be like 200,000 words.

444
00:25:03,410 --> 00:25:12,610
So I haven't even been younger
yet, but but he is, you know,

445
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:17,210
he's he's, he's able to bring
such humanity to a part with

446
00:25:17,210 --> 00:25:20,890
just, you know, I mean just a
few few lines of dialogue and

447
00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:22,090
just a few minutes of screen
time.

448
00:25:22,090 --> 00:25:23,890
I mean how much of this movie is
he in?

449
00:25:24,130 --> 00:25:27,660
He narrates part of it.
But he's also the audience

450
00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:31,060
surrogate, right?
I mean he's he's with Hugh

451
00:25:31,060 --> 00:25:35,380
Jackman when we're with Hugh
Jackman and then he's and then

452
00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:38,260
he turns on Hugh Jackman around
the point when we turn on Hugh

453
00:25:38,260 --> 00:25:40,700
Jackman right.
I mean he aligns himself with

454
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:43,660
Christian Bale when when we
start to align ourselves with.

455
00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:46,780
I mean it's not like they're
it's not like they're totally

456
00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:48,740
antagonistic to us while
watching the movie.

457
00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:52,380
But you know Hugh Jackman has he
has a legitimate cripe.

458
00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:54,500
His wife was killed.
You know, like.

459
00:25:56,300 --> 00:26:00,340
And there's a something very
cocky about Christian Bale at

460
00:26:00,340 --> 00:26:04,540
first, right.
But then later later the the the

461
00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:10,220
tables turn the emotional tables
turn and and and Michael King

462
00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:14,620
kind of rides that and as a
result you know he his presence

463
00:26:14,620 --> 00:26:18,600
sort of.
Helps propel us towards that

464
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,200
character as well towards, you
know, towards one or the other

465
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,400
characters.
So he's used very, very cleverly

466
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,200
in the film.
His character is, I mean his

467
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,520
character is like an
afterthought in the novel, like

468
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,480
that character is is just kind
of mentioned in the background.

469
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,960
He becomes a much more
pronounced character and noble

470
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,640
one's telling of it.
All right, let's talk about the.

471
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,800
I guess the, what I would say
are like the the two female

472
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,720
leads of the movie.
I mean, we could talk about

473
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,920
Piper Perabo as.
Julia, Hugh Jackman's wife in

474
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,960
the early scenes.
But really, we need to talk

475
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,040
about Rebecca Hall and Scarlett
Johansson and I will say just

476
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,200
forever, like, you know, from
here on after Rebecca Hall is

477
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800
great and everything she does,
she is a freaking treasure.

478
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,600
She's great in this movie, in a
very tortured performance.

479
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,880
And I think that in the wrong
hands, that role could really

480
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,400
tip into kind of overdramatic
acting.

481
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,100
But she really, really nails.
The slip into alcoholism and

482
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:21,940
depression and that characters
kind of tragic arc is just

483
00:27:21,940 --> 00:27:26,700
played so beautifully by her.
Yeah, I I really felt like as I

484
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:32,900
was watching her this time that
Anne Hathaway in Les Mis had to

485
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:35,980
have based some of her
performance off of Rebecca Hall

486
00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:36,940
here.
Interesting.

487
00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:39,340
Like they like they had so many
SIM.

488
00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:42,660
There was just something about
her by the end of her arc,

489
00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:45,020
right?
Like when when she is finally.

490
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,640
At the lowest of the low that I
don't know.

491
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,560
There's just something about it
that felt really similar to me.

492
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,440
And part of it's the era, you
know, the Victorian era and

493
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,640
that, but it that it made me
think of her in Les Mis quite a

494
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,160
bit.
I yeah, I can't say I thought

495
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,000
the same, Brad, but I'm I'm not
going to discount your

496
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,120
experience.
Bob, I know that you're, you

497
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,910
know.
Film history isn't quite as

498
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:12,550
extensive as mine, and so I draw
on a lot of difference.

499
00:28:12,790 --> 00:28:17,150
For a noted lame is hater.
I am just I'm very happy to hear

500
00:28:17,150 --> 00:28:19,830
you at least mention the movie
here on this podcast.

501
00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:24,190
Hey I liked like the 1st 45
minutes of lame is it was the

502
00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:26,390
the other 3 1/2 hours that I
didn't like.

503
00:28:26,510 --> 00:28:29,110
I mean, Lame is is a terrible
movie, but but she's very good

504
00:28:29,110 --> 00:28:32,750
in it, and might I add.
She's in that movie The same

505
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:35,430
year she's in The Dark Knight
Rises there.

506
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:39,550
You.
Go might have been, might have

507
00:28:39,550 --> 00:28:43,550
been doing some research into
previous Nolan films for I

508
00:28:43,550 --> 00:28:45,950
actually I said the reason I
know this is because I know or

509
00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:48,030
not that I know this.
The reason I remember this is

510
00:28:48,030 --> 00:28:52,630
because I remember in New York
Film Critics Circle that year we

511
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:55,030
voted her best supporting
actress.

512
00:28:56,470 --> 00:29:00,630
But the way we vote is we we.
We only put the name of the

513
00:29:00,630 --> 00:29:04,150
actor on the ballot.
We don't beat in the film and I

514
00:29:04,150 --> 00:29:08,390
was voting for her for The Dark
Knight Rises not for Les Mis

515
00:29:08,390 --> 00:29:09,710
although she's very good in Les
Mis.

516
00:29:10,790 --> 00:29:13,670
And then at the end when I when
an actor wins if they've been in

517
00:29:13,670 --> 00:29:16,190
other movies that could
potentially qualify.

518
00:29:16,190 --> 00:29:19,110
We take a vote on whether to
include those other movies and

519
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:24,000
and of course because.
New Film Critics Circle is full

520
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,720
of snobs.
You know, they they struck down

521
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,480
the idea of including The Dark
Knight Rises, your award

522
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,000
citation.
But this, this was my early

523
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,880
years in the Circle.
So in future years I became a

524
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,720
little more aware of this, the
way this phenomenon worked.

525
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,760
But at the time, I felt so angry
because I was like, but wait a

526
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,920
minute, she got my vote for that
movie.

527
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,160
Like I was voting for her in
that movie.

528
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,180
It's kind of.
Bogus that like, we can't then

529
00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:54,940
include that in the citation
because you know, my vote help

530
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:58,900
put her over the top, whatever.
But I think she's great by the

531
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:03,100
way, but.
If you need to keep talking this

532
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:05,140
through like we're happy to
listen.

533
00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:07,980
We can help you work through
this trauma.

534
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:11,980
But the but the thing about
Rebecca Hall in The Prestige is

535
00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:14,580
that, you know, she has to like
you said.

536
00:30:14,580 --> 00:30:16,860
I mean, what she has to do is
really difficult.

537
00:30:17,290 --> 00:30:23,050
One, she doesn't get a ton of
screen time, but also she has to

538
00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:28,370
express an emotional reality
that we at that point do not

539
00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:30,330
have access to.
Right.

540
00:30:30,650 --> 00:30:34,370
So it almost feels like a flaw
in the film's design at first,

541
00:30:34,930 --> 00:30:36,010
right?
Because we're like, and she's

542
00:30:36,010 --> 00:30:39,810
like, do you love me?
Yes, I do Not today.

543
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,240
You know, or today you mean it,
you know that whole thing, which

544
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,240
we don't yet know what's going
on.

545
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,880
Right.
So it feels like this weird sort

546
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,200
of emotional situation that
she's in.

547
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,400
Like it's it feels like a
problem that she has, but

548
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,280
because we're not seeing enough
of their relationship at that

549
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,920
point And you know, I mean and
and Dale is a very good actor.

550
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,160
I I mean I think Dale was like,
you know, possibly the greatest

551
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,560
actor of his generation, but
he's not.

552
00:31:09,130 --> 00:31:11,610
That nuanced an actor because at
that point we're not aware of

553
00:31:11,610 --> 00:31:16,010
like the fact that it's two
different guys right And and

554
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:20,570
it's it's funny because it's
this delayed emotional reaction

555
00:31:20,570 --> 00:31:23,930
to her.
So by the end of the film fog

556
00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:31,290
performance the gains a kind of
retrospective gravity but while

557
00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:33,490
she's while her character is
alive.

558
00:31:34,290 --> 00:31:37,050
We might sort of be wondering
like, what's what's what's going

559
00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:38,610
on here?
Like, what's what's her problem

560
00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:42,450
here?
And there's a way to do that.

561
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:45,410
I mean, she could have done that
in such a way that it just came

562
00:31:45,410 --> 00:31:47,490
off as laughable and completely
old.

563
00:31:48,450 --> 00:31:50,210
But she doesn't like, like, we
buy it.

564
00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:54,850
Like we understand that she's we
understand that she's unhappy

565
00:31:54,850 --> 00:31:56,970
and that she's conflicted and
that she doesn't really know

566
00:31:56,970 --> 00:31:59,730
what's going on.
And that feels very sincere.

567
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,120
Even though we don't have the
full picture yet and I think

568
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,680
that's that's actually very high
degree of difficulty both for

569
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,840
the filmmaker and for the for
the actor And this idea of

570
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,560
delayed reactions and kind of
delayed knowledge, I mean it's

571
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,160
an idea that runs throughout
Nolan's films, you know, I mean

572
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,200
he I interviewed him recently
and he said, you know delayed

573
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,680
reaction is just kind of like
what all my movies are about,

574
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,840
you know, and.
And if you watch him, I mean

575
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,320
that's that's exactly, you know
that.

576
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,960
I mean if you watch him with
that eye, it's like that's the

577
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,560
structure of every one of his
films.

578
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,960
So.
So in that sense, I mean I think

579
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,080
The Prestige works beautifully
and and it is really, you know,

580
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,680
it's like a magic trick.
I mean there are all these

581
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,440
things that he's, he's like he's
all these balls he's got up in

582
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,840
the air and all these things
he's juggling and you kind of

583
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,600
don't know where it's going.
And then by the end it all, I

584
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,480
mean it all just comes together
so beautifully for me at least.

585
00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:57,260
Yeah, I think that's what's so
beautiful about her performance

586
00:32:57,260 --> 00:33:00,380
is that she is getting gas lit,
right?

587
00:33:00,380 --> 00:33:06,020
Like, like super hardcore by the
man who loves her and by the man

588
00:33:06,020 --> 00:33:08,340
who is pretending to be the man
who loves her.

589
00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:10,660
Like they're both gaslighting
the heck out of her.

590
00:33:10,940 --> 00:33:15,220
But the crazy thing that he
pulls off is like we as the

591
00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:18,100
audience think that she's the
crazy one.

592
00:33:18,580 --> 00:33:21,420
Like and and and.
I just don't know how you pull

593
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:23,860
that off as a performer to be
able to.

594
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:27,340
Show what it's like to get gas
lit and you, the audience

595
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:30,460
member, don't even realize that
you're partaking in the gas

596
00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:34,860
lighting until it's like, way
too far gone.

597
00:33:35,020 --> 00:33:36,060
Yeah.
Yeah.

598
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:39,140
On the other hand, let's talk
about Scarlett Johansson.

599
00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:41,500
And I don't know that we need to
spend a ton of time on this, but

600
00:33:42,420 --> 00:33:45,020
I think this is the movie where
I realized that Scarlett

601
00:33:45,020 --> 00:33:48,900
Johansson was like like a
capital letters movie star.

602
00:33:49,780 --> 00:33:51,340
And I'm gonna say this in the
nicest way I can.

603
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:53,300
It's cuz I think this is
probably one of her weakest

604
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:55,220
performances.
Like she's just she doesn't do

605
00:33:55,220 --> 00:33:57,980
the accent well.
She doesn't have a ton to do in

606
00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:03,340
this movie.
And yet when someone is a star

607
00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:06,900
of the caliber of Scarlett
Johansson, it's almost like.

608
00:34:07,340 --> 00:34:08,300
I don't know how to explain it,
Brad.

609
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:11,900
It's like you forgive them
because even when they're off as

610
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:15,540
a character, they still succeed
at being Scarlett Johansson.

611
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:18,300
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like, it's like when when Tom

612
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:20,500
Hanks every once in a while
you're like, I don't know, he

613
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:22,739
seems miscast in Road to
Perdition or whatever.

614
00:34:22,739 --> 00:34:25,860
But then it's like, oh, but it's
Tom Hanks and I still will watch

615
00:34:25,860 --> 00:34:27,940
Tom Hanks do anything I want.
You know what I mean?

616
00:34:27,940 --> 00:34:31,340
Like, and this is, I think that
kind of Scarlett Johansson

617
00:34:31,340 --> 00:34:34,620
performance for me, where I
certainly wouldn't rank it among

618
00:34:34,620 --> 00:34:39,070
her best, but like.
She's she's very enjoyable to

619
00:34:39,070 --> 00:34:44,230
watch in everything she does.
Yeah, I I guess I would agree

620
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:48,230
with you just from the sense
that out of all the actors in

621
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:51,830
this film, I think I probably
would have the least notes on

622
00:34:51,830 --> 00:34:54,670
Scar Joe.
I just think she's incredible

623
00:34:54,670 --> 00:34:58,030
and everything that she does.
She is truly one of my favorite

624
00:34:58,030 --> 00:35:01,510
actresses.
So I I really like her here.

625
00:35:01,510 --> 00:35:05,450
I think she does a great job.
Particularly in the scene where

626
00:35:05,450 --> 00:35:10,530
she goes to Borden, Christian
Bale's character, and like tells

627
00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:14,010
him the quote UN quote truth,
but then the actual truth.

628
00:35:14,010 --> 00:35:16,650
And then when they return to
that scene later in the film,

629
00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:21,210
like that whole scene between
her and Christian Bale, you can

630
00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:25,650
feel the raw energy within her.
And I think that's probably her

631
00:35:25,650 --> 00:35:29,810
best scene in the movie.
She doesn't.

632
00:35:30,450 --> 00:35:33,050
I mean, you're right in that she
doesn't ultimately have.

633
00:35:33,370 --> 00:35:36,010
That much to do in the film.
I mean, I think she's very good,

634
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:41,010
but she is, you know, she kind
of has almost like a dimension

635
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:44,610
removed because she's not
conflicted in the way that the

636
00:35:44,610 --> 00:35:46,490
other characters are.
I mean, she's conflicted in the

637
00:35:46,490 --> 00:35:49,050
way that she has the changing
loyalties from one to the other.

638
00:35:49,330 --> 00:35:52,650
In that sense, she almost
foreshadows Michael Caine,

639
00:35:52,890 --> 00:35:55,090
right?
I mean she's kind of a, you

640
00:35:55,090 --> 00:35:57,250
know, when he's not on screen,
she's kind of an audience

641
00:35:57,250 --> 00:36:01,610
surrogate as well, I guess.
But but I'm all, I'm, I'm with

642
00:36:01,610 --> 00:36:03,810
you.
Brad and in the sense that I

643
00:36:03,810 --> 00:36:06,530
mean she can do no wrong.
I I think she's an incredible

644
00:36:06,530 --> 00:36:11,210
actor and you know the year that
I mean I thought that was just

645
00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:15,330
an incredible year she had with
marriage story and JoJo Rabbit

646
00:36:16,450 --> 00:36:19,250
and yet so many people just like
dunked on her and I was just

647
00:36:19,250 --> 00:36:23,090
like you are all going to regret
this one day.

648
00:36:23,090 --> 00:36:26,050
I mean this is this is a person
working with the highest level

649
00:36:26,050 --> 00:36:28,850
of of their art form.
Yeah, I was going to say

650
00:36:28,930 --> 00:36:32,170
Marriage Story and JoJo Rabbit
A2.

651
00:36:32,170 --> 00:36:35,690
Incredible movies, but be two
incredible performances from

652
00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:38,410
Scarlet.
Incredible performances, yeah.

653
00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:43,130
And you know, it's just, it's so
weird because because she kind

654
00:36:43,130 --> 00:36:47,250
of got on the Marvel train and
got on the Marvel train in a way

655
00:36:47,250 --> 00:36:51,260
that I mean.
Belatedly, she got her own

656
00:36:51,260 --> 00:36:54,060
movie.
But for a long time she was the

657
00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:55,780
one who didn't get her own
movie, right.

658
00:36:55,860 --> 00:37:00,740
And so she she never quite got
the, I don't know, it's like she

659
00:37:00,740 --> 00:37:04,060
never quite got the the respect
or the, you know, the the box

660
00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:09,500
office sort of that's that.
Maybe some of the others did.

661
00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:11,180
Yeah, yeah, it was almost like
she.

662
00:37:11,340 --> 00:37:13,420
Was she?
She was in every single.

663
00:37:13,660 --> 00:37:18,500
And then she got killed.
Right.

664
00:37:19,470 --> 00:37:21,750
I was going to say it, it was
almost like she was undermined

665
00:37:21,790 --> 00:37:24,990
from from both sides, right?
Like she lost the respect of

666
00:37:24,990 --> 00:37:28,310
certain people who wanted her to
avoid Marvel films.

667
00:37:28,590 --> 00:37:31,270
But then she never quite gained
the Marvel fans respect either

668
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:34,270
for the reason you're saying.
Like she was never headlining a

669
00:37:34,270 --> 00:37:36,590
movie for them.
And so yeah, kind of easy to

670
00:37:36,590 --> 00:37:37,910
forget about in some of those
movies.

671
00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:39,590
Yeah.
And she was, you know, I mean,

672
00:37:39,630 --> 00:37:41,630
you remember.
I mean, she was, she was in art

673
00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:43,950
house darling, right.
I mean, she was in, you know,

674
00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:46,670
she was in, you know, Ghost
World.

675
00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:51,000
And I mean, it was, it was.
Well, okay, let's talk about the

676
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,400
two leads before we go to break,
because, you know, we've already

677
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,840
talked about Christian Bale a
little bit.

678
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,560
I've been kind of chomping at
the bit to talk about Hugh

679
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,000
Jackman because my, my hottest
take on this movie is that I

680
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,120
think this is Hugh Jackman's
performance in this film is one

681
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,240
of the best performances in any
Nolan film.

682
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,800
And I'm quite honestly shocked
that Jackman and Nolan never

683
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,840
worked together again after this
Hugh Jackman.

684
00:38:16,190 --> 00:38:19,070
Brad, we've talked a lot about,
like Jack Nicholson and how we

685
00:38:19,070 --> 00:38:22,510
always mentioned that the key to
Jack Nicholson is that he's

686
00:38:22,510 --> 00:38:25,630
really good at portraying anger.
Like when when Jack gets angry,

687
00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:28,630
it's just something that is.
And I think with with Hugh

688
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:30,630
Jackman, it's even more specific
than that.

689
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:35,030
It's not just like blind rage,
which he does have, but it is

690
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:39,470
exuding, like bitterness, like
deepseeded bitterness.

691
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:43,030
And I think about.
The look he gives Christian Bale

692
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:47,590
when he shows up at the like
mausoleum and and man it's the

693
00:38:47,590 --> 00:38:51,150
same look that he is giving
throughout Prisoners.

694
00:38:51,150 --> 00:38:53,030
I don't know if you've ever got
around to seeing Prisoners.

695
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:56,070
Brad might be my favorite Hugh
Jackman performance.

696
00:38:56,070 --> 00:38:59,670
He is just he's and that's why
he works as Wolverine, right.

697
00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:01,910
I hate to keep bringing this
back to comic book movies but it

698
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:06,060
seems kind of unavoidable today.
The reason he works is Wolverine

699
00:39:06,060 --> 00:39:09,020
is like he's able to channel
this deep seated bitterness and

700
00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:12,980
anger towards everything around
him and it this is the perfect

701
00:39:12,980 --> 00:39:17,900
combination of him being sleazy,
him being a showman, and him

702
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:21,220
channeling that sort of rage
that made him famous.

703
00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:25,260
I think this is like the
Platonic ideal of a Hugh Jackman

704
00:39:25,260 --> 00:39:27,010
performance.
Yeah, I was.

705
00:39:27,050 --> 00:39:29,050
I was going to come in today and
say the same thing, Bob.

706
00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:33,050
I like, I think Hugh Jackman
steals the show here and I

707
00:39:33,050 --> 00:39:35,090
freaking love Christian Bale in
this movie.

708
00:39:35,450 --> 00:39:40,050
But Hugh Jackman, I I think the
reason I love his performance so

709
00:39:40,050 --> 00:39:44,970
much is because he starts off so
optimistic.

710
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,640
Right.
Like the the kiss that he gives

711
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,480
to his wife on her leg while
he's tying up her feet and and

712
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,480
the way they interact and the
way, you know, they have that

713
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,720
banter when she gives him the
name, the great Danton like

714
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,960
that.
There's just so much in that

715
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:04,160
that is lighthearted and fun and
and honestly like just cutesy

716
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,720
and you don't really get a lot
of that and Nolan films and so

717
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:11,680
to see him move from that.
To someone who is willing to

718
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,080
clone and kill himself night
after night for 100 nights

719
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:20,360
straight so that he can, you
know, ruin the life of his

720
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,360
enemy, it's it's a descent
unlike many we've seen in Cinema

721
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,200
Bob.
Yeah, the thing about Hugh

722
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,320
Jackman that that I think he's
really good at is is a kind of

723
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,920
like righteous anger, right?
He's got justified rage.

724
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,680
I mean, I know I would.
I would contrast him with Jack

725
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,310
Nicholson, who is.
It was just like who came out of

726
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:47,110
the womb angry at the world.
And that's that's always Jack's

727
00:40:47,110 --> 00:40:49,430
thing is he's just angry at the
world.

728
00:40:49,630 --> 00:40:53,710
Which is why he became such a
star in the late 60s, early 70s,

729
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:56,310
when like everybody was just
angry at the world.

730
00:40:56,310 --> 00:40:58,670
I mean, he, he captured that
quality.

731
00:40:58,990 --> 00:41:03,190
And then later as the 70s wore
on and then the 80s came about,

732
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:06,550
you know, his his anger, there
was a kind of distanced, almost

733
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:11,160
snarkiness to it, which was.
So perfectly, which so perfectly

734
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,200
encapsulated the way that the
Boomer generation just like

735
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:22,680
checked out a kind of any kind
of sense of, you know, social

736
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,040
justice or, you know, world
betterment or anything like

737
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,480
that.
I mean, it was, it became sort

738
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,440
of a perfect, even though he's
much older than the yuppies, but

739
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,000
he became kind of a perfect
yuppie icon as a result.

740
00:41:35,740 --> 00:41:38,380
Whereas Hugh Jackman, I mean,
Hugh Jackman is in that sense,

741
00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:41,100
he's kind of a perfect superhero
because the superhero is always

742
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:42,540
angry about something right
there.

743
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:47,220
He would have actually made a
great Batman, but but you know,

744
00:41:47,220 --> 00:41:49,580
he's got justified anger.
There's always something that

745
00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:54,220
sets him off and and once it
does, you know it, it it makes

746
00:41:54,220 --> 00:41:57,380
perfect sense.
I mean you can really sort of,

747
00:41:57,540 --> 00:42:00,540
you know, click into his anger
and that's I think what makes

748
00:42:00,540 --> 00:42:03,780
him special and why, why I think
he's so good here.

749
00:42:04,090 --> 00:42:05,690
I mean, you really buy him as a
man.

750
00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:07,650
Just completely obsessed.
Yeah.

751
00:42:08,450 --> 00:42:10,290
All right.
Bill, you you have just said a

752
00:42:10,290 --> 00:42:12,570
minute ago that you think
Christian Bale might be the best

753
00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:15,650
actor of his generation.
I'd like to just hear.

754
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:18,570
I hate to pit the two of them
against each other, but if you

755
00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:21,170
had to pick the better
performance in this movie, who

756
00:42:21,170 --> 00:42:23,490
would you go with?
In this movie?

757
00:42:23,770 --> 00:42:27,330
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's Bale.

758
00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:30,820
I think they're both great.
I mean they're both, they're

759
00:42:30,860 --> 00:42:31,940
both really great.
Sorry.

760
00:42:31,940 --> 00:42:33,580
There's like fireworks going off
here.

761
00:42:34,580 --> 00:42:40,940
They're they're both great.
I think they all because he has

762
00:42:40,940 --> 00:42:42,860
to.
I mean they both have secrets,

763
00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:44,540
right.
Like each character has a secret

764
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:49,620
that is sort of haunting them
and that is that is driving us

765
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:53,060
and and also feels like you know
as we watch their performance

766
00:42:53,060 --> 00:42:55,580
like we can tell that there's
something they're keeping from

767
00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:57,780
us that we're going to find out
about I think with.

768
00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:59,990
With bail, there's a bit more of
it.

769
00:42:59,990 --> 00:43:04,350
There is a bit more of a an
unreadability to him, but but

770
00:43:04,350 --> 00:43:09,310
not a, you know, not a not an
unreadability that works against

771
00:43:09,310 --> 00:43:12,230
the performance and
unreadability that makes us more

772
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:13,910
interested in in what's going on
with him.

773
00:43:14,270 --> 00:43:17,590
But I mean it's very close.
I mean I probably, you know,

774
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:21,030
they're probably.
You know, every time I see the

775
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:24,150
movie, I might change my opinion
on who's who's better, right?

776
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:26,510
Because because Jackman also,
you know, in the second-half of

777
00:43:26,510 --> 00:43:29,830
the film especially, you know
Jack, Jackman is also hiding

778
00:43:29,830 --> 00:43:34,430
something from us and he's
haunted in a way that that he

779
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:37,390
isn't early on, right.
I mean, the the scene that I

780
00:43:37,390 --> 00:43:40,950
always think about with this
film, I can't remember the exact

781
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:46,510
line, but you know, it's after
Jackman goes to see The

782
00:43:46,510 --> 00:43:48,430
Transported Man for the first
time.

783
00:43:49,550 --> 00:43:54,790
And before we see the actual
act, there was just like, I

784
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:56,950
can't remember if it's like a
zoom in on his face or not.

785
00:43:56,950 --> 00:44:00,470
But before, like he says, you
know, I went to see an act today

786
00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:02,830
and he was like it was the
greatest magic trick I've.

787
00:44:02,830 --> 00:44:05,550
Ever seen he?
Says that before we see it and

788
00:44:05,550 --> 00:44:08,990
we totally believe it.
Like at that point, I mean that

789
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:13,470
does such a great job of setting
up The Transported Man and we

790
00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:15,190
kind of need that, even though
they even though it's an

791
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:17,950
incredible magic trick, but we
need somebody to say.

792
00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:22,690
This is a whole other level.
Of Well, it's somebody that we

793
00:44:22,690 --> 00:44:25,770
trust knows magic, right?
You know what I mean?

794
00:44:26,250 --> 00:44:27,770
Well, that was that was the
other thing I was going to say

795
00:44:27,770 --> 00:44:32,130
is like this structurally this
script does such a good job of

796
00:44:32,530 --> 00:44:35,330
putting its thumb on the scale
of either of these guys at

797
00:44:35,330 --> 00:44:37,930
different times so that the
audience is sympathizing with

798
00:44:37,930 --> 00:44:41,170
each of them and root kind of
actively rooting against the

799
00:44:41,170 --> 00:44:42,530
other at other parts of the
movie.

800
00:44:42,970 --> 00:44:45,410
And I'm thinking in particular
about the fact that like.

801
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:49,550
When Tesla leaves the machine to
him and is warning him and

802
00:44:49,550 --> 00:44:52,430
warning him and he says, you
know, Tesla knew that his

803
00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:54,990
warnings would go unheeded.
You get this great scene of

804
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:58,750
Jackman, like literally rolling
up his sleeves and getting to

805
00:44:58,750 --> 00:45:01,790
work tinkering on the machine.
And it's this great picture of

806
00:45:01,790 --> 00:45:05,230
like, you know, America versus
Britain and like the American

807
00:45:05,230 --> 00:45:08,590
ingenuity and the the
hardworking guy who's going to

808
00:45:08,830 --> 00:45:12,030
pull himself up and make
something of himself and and win

809
00:45:12,030 --> 00:45:14,110
this battle.
And as that's happening, they're

810
00:45:14,110 --> 00:45:17,590
intercutting it with essentially
like the end of Christian Bale's

811
00:45:17,590 --> 00:45:21,350
marriage, where he seems to be
at his most villainous as a

812
00:45:21,350 --> 00:45:24,350
character.
And so I just love the way that

813
00:45:24,350 --> 00:45:29,030
Nolan makes the, I guess I would
call the downfall of Jackman's

814
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:32,670
character all the more tragic
because at certain points of the

815
00:45:32,670 --> 00:45:34,950
movie, you're actively rooting
for him.

816
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:38,310
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, and and, and that, you

817
00:45:38,310 --> 00:45:42,670
know, his obsessive journey into
the, you know, into America.

818
00:45:44,140 --> 00:45:47,620
You know, the performance has to
drive that to such an extent.

819
00:45:47,620 --> 00:45:51,060
I mean it's such a, I mean if
you think with this story turns

820
00:45:51,060 --> 00:45:54,940
on a die, the guy writes Tesla
on a piece of paper and the

821
00:45:55,220 --> 00:46:00,620
other guy goes to America and
this is like what the 1870s.

822
00:46:00,620 --> 00:46:03,100
I mean this is not, this is not
an easy trip.

823
00:46:03,100 --> 00:46:05,300
This isn't like, you know, I
booked the flight.

824
00:46:05,380 --> 00:46:09,330
I mean this is like.
He changes his life, right.

825
00:46:09,330 --> 00:46:13,170
I mean, you know, to to go into
the American heartland in the

826
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:18,970
1870s from the UK, even though
he is American, which is kind of

827
00:46:18,970 --> 00:46:22,730
funny, you know, that's a huge
deal especially for someone who

828
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:24,850
was who was fled from his
background, right.

829
00:46:24,850 --> 00:46:27,370
I mean it's like and it's just
like because Christian Bale

830
00:46:27,370 --> 00:46:33,090
wrote Tesla on a piece of paper
like and to to sell that to us

831
00:46:33,570 --> 00:46:35,730
is, you know, that's that's
again.

832
00:46:36,850 --> 00:46:40,530
It's a high high degree of
difficulty situation there and

833
00:46:40,530 --> 00:46:43,770
and he does it you know we we
totally buy that that this man

834
00:46:43,850 --> 00:46:47,650
would go to was effectively the
ends of the earth in that age

835
00:46:49,130 --> 00:46:51,690
for this.
Brad, I think this is a good

836
00:46:51,690 --> 00:46:54,450
place for us to hit pause.
What do you say we tried this

837
00:46:54,450 --> 00:46:57,250
quarter Horse Bourbon, then
we'll come back and keep

838
00:46:57,250 --> 00:47:00,210
chatting about The Prestige.
Let's get to it.

839
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,480
All right, everybody.
Today we are looking at Quarter

840
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,880
Horse Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey.
They did not market the full

841
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,760
horse, only one quarter of the
horse.

842
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,600
Brad, when you go to your horse
butcher, you can ask them for a

843
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:24,920
quarter horse.
That's a great joke for people

844
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,520
from Kentucky.
I'm sure they love it.

845
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,640
All right, so here's the thing
about Quarter horse.

846
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,480
I picked this up for us, Brad,
when we made a trip to Kentucky

847
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,600
and I stopped at one of my
favorite stores in the world,

848
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,510
Party Source.
And up towards the front of

849
00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:41,710
Party Source, they have a huge
section of little 50ML sample

850
00:47:41,710 --> 00:47:43,470
size bottles.
You know, we used to call them

851
00:47:43,470 --> 00:47:45,670
airplane bottles, but you don't
get them anymore.

852
00:47:46,510 --> 00:47:49,590
And it was all the major brands.
It was like Maker's Mark and

853
00:47:49,590 --> 00:47:51,710
Jack Daniels.
And then they had Quarter Horse.

854
00:47:52,670 --> 00:47:54,590
And I thought to myself like,
well, I've never heard of this

855
00:47:54,590 --> 00:47:58,430
brand, but for them to be
carried at such a major retailer

856
00:47:58,430 --> 00:48:01,310
and to have invested so much
money in making these little

857
00:48:01,310 --> 00:48:04,430
tiny bottles.
Like they must have a big

858
00:48:04,430 --> 00:48:06,830
conglomerate behind them.
Maybe this is like a Heaven Hill

859
00:48:06,830 --> 00:48:08,390
brand or something that I've
never heard of.

860
00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:11,110
So I picked a couple up for us.
They were a dollar a piece.

861
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:14,430
And I have come to find out that
I know very little about this

862
00:48:14,430 --> 00:48:17,190
brand because they are not what
I thought they were.

863
00:48:17,350 --> 00:48:20,550
Like, they're they're an
Owensboro, KY distillery from my

864
00:48:20,550 --> 00:48:25,950
understanding, and I think that
they're aging their bourbon more

865
00:48:25,950 --> 00:48:28,510
now than they were when we
bought these samples about a

866
00:48:28,510 --> 00:48:30,270
year ago.
I'm looking at their website.

867
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,680
It says that their bourbon is
now considered a straight

868
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,600
bourbon, which would mean at
least two years old.

869
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,720
And the ones that we have in our
hands do not say that.

870
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:41,320
And in fact on the side and very
small print it says aged a

871
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,040
minimum of one year.
So this is very young whiskey.

872
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,680
Very excited to pair this with
the Prestige.

873
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,240
See if they can pull off a
magic.

874
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:51,560
Trick here.
Oh man.

875
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,720
Well we'll see about that.
I don't have any mash bill info.

876
00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:58,000
I know that it says it's 46%
ABV, so 92 proof.

877
00:48:58,620 --> 00:49:00,060
That's all we have to go with,
Brad.

878
00:49:00,260 --> 00:49:03,980
That's about it, man.
Yeah, I'm, I am not excited to

879
00:49:03,980 --> 00:49:06,740
get into this with you.
I have been letting this kind of

880
00:49:06,740 --> 00:49:08,900
air out in my glass for a little
while now.

881
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,380
When I first poured it out, it
had.

882
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:14,540
I mean, I'm just going to be
frank here and almost

883
00:49:14,540 --> 00:49:20,580
offensively young smell to it a
like a a craft whiskey smell and

884
00:49:20,580 --> 00:49:25,060
also a young whiskey smell where
it reminds me of some of those

885
00:49:25,060 --> 00:49:27,020
like, really bad whiskeys we've
had.

886
00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:31,620
I will say that this one it had
that it didn't quite have that

887
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:35,980
like chemical Tarnex smell I've
gotten before, but it smelled

888
00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:41,220
almost like artificial, like
coconut hand lotion or

889
00:49:41,220 --> 00:49:42,540
something.
It almost smelled like

890
00:49:42,580 --> 00:49:48,420
artificially sweet to to like
mask how young and grainy it is.

891
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:52,660
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm with you
100% and like every time I think

892
00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:55,890
about coconut hand oil.
All I can think about is eating

893
00:49:55,890 --> 00:49:58,250
it, so this is going to be a
great.

894
00:49:58,330 --> 00:50:01,050
Great experience and.
I can already tell.

895
00:50:01,130 --> 00:50:02,650
Yeah, I don't like this on the
nose, man.

896
00:50:02,970 --> 00:50:04,290
I'm sorry.
I don't mean to cut you off, but

897
00:50:04,290 --> 00:50:08,250
I forgot to give it a score.
I'm going to give it a 4 1/2 out

898
00:50:08,250 --> 00:50:11,650
of 10 on the nose.
Yeah, I give it a 5 out of 10.

899
00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:14,770
It smelled like cherry
Robitussin to me.

900
00:50:16,170 --> 00:50:19,850
There's the corn, there's the
ethanol, and then this is a note

901
00:50:19,850 --> 00:50:23,330
that I've never given before,
and it's a note that like.

902
00:50:23,870 --> 00:50:29,190
If you if you know, you know,
you know it's it's it smells

903
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:33,150
like barn.
I just love that you described

904
00:50:33,150 --> 00:50:35,270
it as if you know, you know, you
know.

905
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:38,550
Yeah, yeah, it smells like barn
Bob.

906
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:40,310
Yeah.
It does.

907
00:50:40,310 --> 00:50:41,950
That's all I'm going to say
about that.

908
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:45,230
Yeah, I think that's kind of
what I mean when I call it grain

909
00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:46,830
forward, it's not Even so much
grain forward.

910
00:50:46,830 --> 00:50:49,030
It's like, hey, forward.
You know what I mean?

911
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:52,470
Like what there is that, hey,
yeah, 100%, man.

912
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:55,430
Not great, and I'm sipping this
live.

913
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:57,510
I know you've tried it already,
so I'm going to give it a sip

914
00:50:57,510 --> 00:51:00,590
while you influence me with your
tasting notes.

915
00:51:01,070 --> 00:51:03,950
Yeah, honestly, the taste is not
good.

916
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:07,910
It tasted kind of like cheap red
wine.

917
00:51:08,590 --> 00:51:13,950
Like like if you bought like a
$4.00 bottle of red wine, it was

918
00:51:13,990 --> 00:51:17,910
it was kind of fruity.
It tasted like sweet corn that

919
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:21,550
didn't have any, like seasoning
or butter on it, and it tasted

920
00:51:21,550 --> 00:51:26,440
like ethanol.
So 4 1/2 great, great score for

921
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,720
a one year aged whiskey.
I don't know how to explain what

922
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:35,960
just happened on my palate.
It's almost like this whiskey

923
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,840
rushed itself down my esophagus
like it was the fastest tasting

924
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,080
experience I've ever had.
It was like sweet, sweet, sweet

925
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,200
honey, vanilla.
You swallow it, It's like a

926
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,440
little bit of oak and then like,
midway down my esophagus.

927
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:58,440
It like detonated a bomb of like
really, really prickly alcohol

928
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,720
to the point where I was like,
oh, the if like it mimicked the

929
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:07,240
feel of like, acid reflux.
You can hear me over here.

930
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:09,760
I'm like struggling through it.
I wouldn't call it a harsh

931
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,800
whiskey, but it's like not
complex at all.

932
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,800
And then you don't notice what
you've drank until like midway

933
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,360
through the finish of it and
then it like.

934
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,960
Reignites this really prickly
alcohol burn.

935
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,080
I don't think this is a poor
whiskey on the pallet, but it's

936
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,200
nothing to write home about.
I'll give that as six.

937
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,400
The finish again, like I'm
struggling through it.

938
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,360
It doesn't taste bad, but the
alcohol burn doesn't feel

939
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,920
balanced out with the rest of
the experience.

940
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,320
It is a little bit harsh, so I'm
going to give it a, I don't

941
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,950
know, a 5 out of 10.
Yeah, I actually gave it a 5 out

942
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:49,910
of 10 as well in the finish.
It's it's short, it's grainy,

943
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:53,910
it's generically sweet.
It does.

944
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:57,630
It's not the most offensive part
of the whiskey, but it's not

945
00:52:57,630 --> 00:53:00,870
good for balance.
I give it a four out of 10.

946
00:53:01,190 --> 00:53:03,710
I actually think this is well
balanced in the sense that it's

947
00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:08,750
all bad, but I'm not going to
give it a good score because

948
00:53:08,750 --> 00:53:13,070
it's the the, the the well
balanced experience all the way

949
00:53:13,070 --> 00:53:15,300
through.
I don't know if we're just like

950
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:17,380
finally living into our truest
selves.

951
00:53:17,380 --> 00:53:21,380
Brad, we're usually not this
curt with our comments on a

952
00:53:21,380 --> 00:53:24,580
whiskey.
But like folks, I really am

953
00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:27,420
enjoying our conversation with
Bill good today and I really

954
00:53:27,460 --> 00:53:29,300
want to get back to that.
And I just don't like this

955
00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:30,820
whiskey.
It's not it's not great.

956
00:53:32,380 --> 00:53:35,620
I will give it a 5 out of 10.
On the balance, I think that

957
00:53:35,620 --> 00:53:38,020
with some time, this actually
could be a pretty good whiskey.

958
00:53:38,570 --> 00:53:42,450
Like, it doesn't taste like
offensively young or anything.

959
00:53:42,450 --> 00:53:45,090
It's just a really young whiskey
that tastes harsh right now

960
00:53:45,250 --> 00:53:46,610
because it needs time to mellow
out.

961
00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:50,010
At four years, this might be
good at one year, which we have

962
00:53:50,010 --> 00:53:53,330
it at, Not great.
So it's a 5 out of 10 for me,

963
00:53:53,730 --> 00:53:56,770
and that brings us to value.
Now, like I said, we were

964
00:53:56,770 --> 00:53:58,330
drinking one dollar's worth of
this.

965
00:53:58,370 --> 00:54:02,570
Brad, how much is a 750ML bottle
of this?

966
00:54:03,290 --> 00:54:07,890
It is. $30 Bob.
It's hard to give it a a true

967
00:54:07,890 --> 00:54:11,050
value score because I know that
they're releasing a more aged

968
00:54:11,050 --> 00:54:13,050
version of it now.
Yeah.

969
00:54:13,130 --> 00:54:19,170
If this what we have was
magnified up to 750, I would not

970
00:54:19,170 --> 00:54:21,610
pay $30.00 for this.
I I mean if this was like 15

971
00:54:21,610 --> 00:54:23,450
bucks, I'd be like all right,
cool, give it a shot.

972
00:54:24,410 --> 00:54:27,930
I know it's a craft distiller
and honestly $30.00 for a craft

973
00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:32,210
whiskey is not bad at all, but
the whiskey itself is not good,

974
00:54:32,210 --> 00:54:35,250
so I'm going to give it.
I don't know.

975
00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:37,290
I'll be generous.
I'll give it a six out of 10 on

976
00:54:37,290 --> 00:54:42,250
value.
Bob, this is a one out of 10 on

977
00:54:42,250 --> 00:54:47,690
value bro. $30.00 for this.
Come on, come on I.

978
00:54:47,730 --> 00:54:49,770
Guess what I'm saying?
That their two year product is

979
00:54:49,770 --> 00:54:50,570
better?
Yeah.

980
00:54:50,730 --> 00:54:55,050
But I'm going to give it fine.
I'll give it a 1 1/2 out of 10.

981
00:54:55,370 --> 00:54:57,610
I think the only reason I'm
giving it, you know we it's our

982
00:54:57,690 --> 00:54:59,930
our classic thing of like how we
consider value.

983
00:55:00,210 --> 00:55:02,810
I don't know that a craft
distiller, well, I don't know

984
00:55:02,810 --> 00:55:07,110
that a craft distiller.
Can make it can produce a

985
00:55:07,110 --> 00:55:10,630
bourbon for less than like a $30
price point.

986
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:13,350
Like this is pretty you got to
admit, when you think about like

987
00:55:13,350 --> 00:55:16,150
all the craft distillers we've
ever sampled from their bourbons

988
00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:19,350
are always like $45.00 because
it's it's really hard for them

989
00:55:19,350 --> 00:55:22,630
to make a profit off of this.
So like this is already like

990
00:55:22,830 --> 00:55:27,390
bottom, bottom, bottom tier
pricing for a craft whiskey and

991
00:55:27,390 --> 00:55:29,710
I'm trying to at least give him
credit for that because it's not

992
00:55:29,710 --> 00:55:31,830
like they're trying to upcharge
people too much.

993
00:55:32,350 --> 00:55:35,150
But you're right, I don't think
it's worth $30.

994
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:40,910
I'm coming out to a Go ahead.
I have 3 words for them make

995
00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:44,630
better whiskey.
Man, you are like you're on one

996
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:46,030
today, dude.
Jeez.

997
00:55:46,910 --> 00:55:49,830
Well, there goes the possibility
of us ever working with the

998
00:55:49,830 --> 00:55:53,270
quarter horse whiskey folks.
I am not going to be quite as

999
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:56,310
harsh.
I'm coming out to a 26.5 out of

1000
00:55:56,310 --> 00:55:57,830
50.
What are you coming out to,

1001
00:55:57,830 --> 00:56:02,290
Brad?
I came out to on the dot a 20

1002
00:56:02,290 --> 00:56:06,890
out of 50.
So we're at a 46 1/2 out of 100.

1003
00:56:06,890 --> 00:56:10,250
This is, folks, one of the
lowest rated whiskeys we have

1004
00:56:10,490 --> 00:56:14,130
ever had on film and whiskey.
And I it feels weird to say

1005
00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:17,530
that, Brad, because I know for a
fact we've had significantly

1006
00:56:17,530 --> 00:56:21,930
worse whiskey than this one.
But I mean, there's nothing to

1007
00:56:21,930 --> 00:56:23,290
write home about with this
whiskey.

1008
00:56:23,290 --> 00:56:25,450
It's, you know, it needs more
time.

1009
00:56:25,450 --> 00:56:27,730
It just does.
Bottom line, end of story.

1010
00:56:28,810 --> 00:56:32,770
Yeah, this is a whiskey that
needs more time and a lot of

1011
00:56:32,770 --> 00:56:34,610
things, Bob.
It's not good.

1012
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:36,650
You know what is good?
What's?

1013
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:40,250
That the prestige.
The Prestige is so good, man.

1014
00:56:40,290 --> 00:56:42,490
It's such a it's just so
entertaining.

1015
00:56:43,050 --> 00:56:44,490
Let's get back into talking
about that.

1016
00:56:44,490 --> 00:56:47,090
What do you say, Brad?
Let's get to it.

1017
00:56:52,270 --> 00:56:54,870
All right, everybody.
That was Quarter Horse a whiskey

1018
00:56:54,870 --> 00:56:57,310
that I refuse to say another
word about.

1019
00:56:58,670 --> 00:56:59,750
All right, There it is.
Man.

1020
00:57:00,190 --> 00:57:01,910
I'll, I'll say a couple more
words.

1021
00:57:02,350 --> 00:57:06,510
Not great whiskey, Brad.
No, you didn't have to say.

1022
00:57:06,510 --> 00:57:08,070
Yep, Yep, I see what you're
doing.

1023
00:57:08,430 --> 00:57:11,830
All right, on that note, I will
segue us into our next segment,

1024
00:57:11,830 --> 00:57:14,070
which we call 2 facts and a
falsehood.

1025
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:16,750
Brad is gonna try to stumpy
ball.

1026
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:24,760
You are right and what is wrong?
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts

1027
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,040
and a Falsehood is the part of
the show where Brad presents

1028
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,640
three items to me as fact about
the making of this movie, one of

1029
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,520
which is a total lie and it is
my job to suss out which one is

1030
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,440
the fabrication.
I thankfully have a big fan of

1031
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,280
the movie here today that seems
to have some inside knowledge

1032
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:45,160
about this movie, so Bilga will
be my phone, a friend on the day

1033
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,970
if I need some help.
Brad, I am sitting right around

1034
00:57:47,970 --> 00:57:50,690
500 on the season.
You've been doing a pretty good

1035
00:57:50,690 --> 00:57:52,770
job keeping me in check this
time around, man.

1036
00:57:53,490 --> 00:57:58,450
Yeah, I I think that we are like
evenly matched at this point and

1037
00:57:58,450 --> 00:58:00,770
honestly that makes it a little
more enjoyable for me, I think.

1038
00:58:00,970 --> 00:58:03,970
It's like it truly is a
microcosm of the Prestige.

1039
00:58:04,340 --> 00:58:08,220
Like I you have metaphorically
shot off two of my fingers and

1040
00:58:08,580 --> 00:58:10,100
and I'm coming for you at this
point.

1041
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:14,620
Is is this podcast just going to
end with us murdering each other

1042
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:16,220
somehow?
Do you have a twin brother out

1043
00:58:16,220 --> 00:58:21,300
there?
Little do you know, man, can we?

1044
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:23,740
Just like they don't talk about
this at all.

1045
00:58:24,100 --> 00:58:27,460
But like, was this really just a
plot for the twin brothers to

1046
00:58:27,460 --> 00:58:29,420
both have sex with multiple
women?

1047
00:58:31,220 --> 00:58:33,780
Christopher Nolan and his
brother writing this screenplay,

1048
00:58:33,780 --> 00:58:34,940
or like, you know, it would be
awesome.

1049
00:58:36,140 --> 00:58:41,860
Because if we could tell our
life story same time, I'm sorry,

1050
00:58:41,900 --> 00:58:44,340
I can't.
Be the only person that thought

1051
00:58:44,340 --> 00:58:46,700
about that.
This is this is basically

1052
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:49,180
Christopher Nolan's version of
Vicky Cristina Barcelona.

1053
00:58:49,180 --> 00:58:50,340
Exactly.
Exactly.

1054
00:58:50,340 --> 00:58:53,620
Like we can get very Freudian
with this movie.

1055
00:58:53,620 --> 00:58:56,740
And I feel like we will before
the day is over, Brad, but at

1056
00:58:56,740 --> 00:58:59,090
the moment.
You have a task ahead of you,

1057
00:58:59,090 --> 00:59:03,250
and that is to lie to me and I
hopefully will be able to figure

1058
00:59:03,250 --> 00:59:05,410
out which one is the lie.
Hit me with your two facts in a

1059
00:59:05,410 --> 00:59:09,290
falsehood.
Fact #1 Chung Ling Su was a

1060
00:59:09,290 --> 00:59:13,050
stage character in real life
created by William Ellsworth

1061
00:59:13,050 --> 00:59:16,170
Robinson, a white man who
disguised himself as a Chinese

1062
00:59:16,170 --> 00:59:19,970
man to cash in on audiences
enthusiasm for the exotic.

1063
00:59:20,330 --> 00:59:22,930
He lived as Chung, never
breaking character while in

1064
00:59:22,930 --> 00:59:26,060
public.
But he died in 1918 when a

1065
00:59:26,060 --> 00:59:31,020
bullet catch trick went wrong,
saying my God, I've been shot,

1066
00:59:31,020 --> 00:59:34,460
which were both his last words
on the on the stage and the

1067
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:36,860
first English he had spoken in
19 years.

1068
00:59:37,820 --> 00:59:39,780
That's a heck of a that's a good
one.

1069
00:59:39,940 --> 00:59:41,740
That's a good one.
Man, yeah, even if you made that

1070
00:59:41,740 --> 00:59:43,660
up, I got to say that.
Nicely done.

1071
00:59:44,780 --> 00:59:47,460
Fact #2.
Ridley Scott was initially

1072
00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:51,260
attached to direct this film in
the early 2000s and had hired

1073
00:59:51,260 --> 00:59:53,060
Jonathan Nolan to write the
film.

1074
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:56,260
He chose, however, to work on
other projects, and Jonathan

1075
00:59:56,260 --> 01:00:00,740
suggested the project to his
brother Fact #3.

1076
01:00:00,740 --> 01:00:05,820
When Alfred is in prison, his
inmate number is D23.

1077
01:00:05,980 --> 01:00:08,580
The movie was released by
Touchstone Pictures, a Disney

1078
01:00:08,580 --> 01:00:13,380
subsidiary, and D 23 is the
official Disney fan club 23,

1079
01:00:13,380 --> 01:00:18,140
referring to 1923, the year Walt
Disney opened the studio.

1080
01:00:18,140 --> 01:00:20,780
So.
Are you saying that it's an

1081
01:00:20,820 --> 01:00:22,940
intentional reference or just
like something fun?

1082
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,840
I believe it is an intentional
reference.

1083
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,240
Got it, got it.
But the person on IMDb who wrote

1084
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,680
that, you know, I I don't know
what was going on in their mind.

1085
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:37,320
Sure, sure, sure.
OK, Bilga, I think #1 is true.

1086
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,560
It at least sounds true.
It is dense enough that I don't

1087
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,440
think Brad took the time to
write all that down.

1088
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,920
That is rude.
One sounds true to me too.

1089
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,440
Yes, Not having not having met
you before, Brad.

1090
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,730
Just going to stay.
You know that the, the, the.

1091
01:00:55,570 --> 01:00:57,810
I don't see that intelligent.
Is that what you're saying?

1092
01:00:57,810 --> 01:00:59,970
You seem like a guy that cuts a
lot of corners, That's what he

1093
01:00:59,970 --> 01:01:03,130
said.
I'm saying, you know what I'm

1094
01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:04,210
saying.
This doesn't seem like a thing

1095
01:01:04,210 --> 01:01:06,010
that he would have put that much
effort into.

1096
01:01:07,090 --> 01:01:08,730
Believe me, you are you are
correct.

1097
01:01:09,010 --> 01:01:12,450
It does feel right, but it also
feels it does feel like a piece

1098
01:01:12,450 --> 01:01:17,170
of like great Magic lore, like
it feels it feels true in that

1099
01:01:17,170 --> 01:01:22,080
sense. #2 is one that I'm kind
of circling here because I know

1100
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,760
just from skimming the Wikipedia
page before we press record that

1101
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,760
there were other filmmakers
attached to this project.

1102
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,880
The one that I saw was Sam
Mendes, which I think would have

1103
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,560
been made for really interesting
and and probably not as great

1104
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,680
movie.
But I did not see Ridley Scott

1105
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,560
attached, and so I'm kind of
circling that as a potential

1106
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,600
okay.
Maybe not #3.

1107
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,120
I'm struggling to figure out,
like, how it even applies to

1108
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,080
this movie.
Like like, oh cool.

1109
01:01:49,470 --> 01:01:54,270
The letters D23 sometimes mean
something else, so Bill got I'm

1110
01:01:54,270 --> 01:01:57,990
really waffling back and forth
between 2:00 and 3:00, but I'm

1111
01:01:58,150 --> 01:02:02,110
I'm kind of leaning towards 2.
Do you have a sense in your mind

1112
01:02:02,110 --> 01:02:05,270
of which one is the falsehood?
I'm I think.

1113
01:02:06,350 --> 01:02:11,510
I think 2 is the falsehood.
And I say that despite the fact

1114
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:15,990
that I know that Ridley Scott is
a is a serial developer and

1115
01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:18,310
serial attacher of himself to
things.

1116
01:02:19,830 --> 01:02:23,390
So it feels like it it could
very well be trained.

1117
01:02:23,870 --> 01:02:28,310
But that's also why I think it
might be false, Whereas the

1118
01:02:28,310 --> 01:02:33,310
other thing is just to to it's
it's it's too stupid to not

1119
01:02:33,350 --> 01:02:36,710
like, it's too stupid to not be
a thing that people talk about

1120
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:37,670
like I'm.
Like so.

1121
01:02:37,870 --> 01:02:39,590
So what?
You're saying Bilga is?

1122
01:02:40,050 --> 01:02:43,490
Either the facts are too smart
for me to write or too stupid

1123
01:02:43,490 --> 01:02:46,850
for me to write.
No, no, it's not that.

1124
01:02:47,050 --> 01:02:50,410
It's it's it's it's it feels
like the kind I you know what it

1125
01:02:50,410 --> 01:02:52,530
is.
I'm what I'm saying is you're

1126
01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:55,450
too smart to have come up with a
falsehood like 3.

1127
01:02:56,050 --> 01:02:58,330
Ah, thanks.
I'm like if you are going to

1128
01:02:58,330 --> 01:03:01,170
come up with a falsehood, you
would have come up with a better

1129
01:03:01,610 --> 01:03:04,050
like a more intelligent
falsehood than three, which just

1130
01:03:04,050 --> 01:03:07,370
sounds like some random thing
that some idiot on the Internet

1131
01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:10,950
said.
I am half inclined to just say

1132
01:03:10,950 --> 01:03:13,630
three's the falsehood just so we
can stop stroking Brad's ego

1133
01:03:13,630 --> 01:03:16,310
here for a minute.
Let's see.

1134
01:03:16,590 --> 01:03:18,470
I'm going to say Two's the
falsehood, Brad.

1135
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:20,070
I'm going to lock it in as my
final answer.

1136
01:03:21,150 --> 01:03:24,190
I think that this is the
happiest I've been to say that

1137
01:03:24,190 --> 01:03:26,310
you're right.
Hey.

1138
01:03:27,710 --> 01:03:31,550
This I will say normally 2 facts
in a falsehood is a roller

1139
01:03:31,550 --> 01:03:34,200
coaster for Bob.
That was a roller coaster for

1140
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:34,880
me.
Guys.

1141
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,640
I I'm feeling, I'm feeling
emotionally drained right now.

1142
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,240
It was.
It was a combo of getting beat

1143
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,520
up emotionally and then getting
affirmed at the end, you know?

1144
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,480
Yeah, I really got you.
Yeah, you guys.

1145
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,880
Pulled the rug out from under me
and then helped me up.

1146
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,760
Yeah, it's like we delivered a
little prestige there at the

1147
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:54,720
end.
Exactly.

1148
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,200
All right, here's here's the
thing I want to talk about.

1149
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:04,420
Here's my question for you.
So I was reading Roger Ebert's

1150
01:04:04,420 --> 01:04:07,940
review on this because at this
point, if the movie has a review

1151
01:04:07,940 --> 01:04:12,460
by Ebert, I have to read it.
And he he gave it three stars.

1152
01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:15,860
And the final part of his his
commentary I thought was

1153
01:04:15,860 --> 01:04:21,420
fascinating because he basically
docked this movie a star because

1154
01:04:21,420 --> 01:04:24,140
at the end of the day, it
wasn't.

1155
01:04:26,380 --> 01:04:31,380
How do I want to say it?
There was actual magic involved,

1156
01:04:31,580 --> 01:04:33,180
right?
Like he like, he is getting

1157
01:04:33,180 --> 01:04:36,460
cloned.
And I I think that the way Roger

1158
01:04:36,460 --> 01:04:41,220
presented it was like I wanted
it all to be a trick at the end

1159
01:04:41,260 --> 01:04:43,820
that, you know, was manufactured
because that's the whole point

1160
01:04:43,820 --> 01:04:46,900
of magic tricks.
Like we're not in the 1800s

1161
01:04:46,900 --> 01:04:48,740
anymore.
We don't think that these things

1162
01:04:48,740 --> 01:04:51,740
are, you know, truly
supernatural magic.

1163
01:04:52,380 --> 01:04:56,100
And I thought that that was a
fascinating point and it it it

1164
01:04:56,100 --> 01:05:00,120
took me to this point.
Where I'm wondering, like at the

1165
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,640
end of the film there's a clear
villain, right?

1166
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,600
Like Hugh Jackman is the villain
of this movie and Christian Bale

1167
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:11,720
is is cast upon with a A
merciful light by the end of the

1168
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,880
film.
Is this movie a commentary on

1169
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,840
CGI?
Yes, it is that Brad, thank you

1170
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,080
for that.
This was going to be my big

1171
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,800
think piece pitch to Bilga and
Vulture for the end of this.

1172
01:05:26,860 --> 01:05:30,700
No, but I I really do think that
there is a particular reason.

1173
01:05:30,740 --> 01:05:33,460
And and Ebert was not alone in
this, in his criticism of the

1174
01:05:33,460 --> 01:05:38,500
movie, he basically argues that
Nolan stops playing by his own

1175
01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:41,620
rules, the rules of the world
that he's created by introducing

1176
01:05:41,620 --> 01:05:45,340
A literal like Deus Ex machina.
At the end of the like there's a

1177
01:05:45,340 --> 01:05:47,940
machine that clones somebody.
We did not know that that this

1178
01:05:47,940 --> 01:05:50,620
universe operated it within this
set of rules.

1179
01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:52,300
Right.
I mean, it's almost like a

1180
01:05:52,340 --> 01:05:55,220
Tarantino, like, oh, by the way,
we killed Hitler, right?

1181
01:05:55,220 --> 01:05:56,580
Like, oh, I didn't realize that
this was a.

1182
01:05:56,660 --> 01:05:58,740
Historical fix, we can do that,
Yeah.

1183
01:05:59,340 --> 01:06:02,980
And and I was reading another
review that basically the poll

1184
01:06:02,980 --> 01:06:05,980
quote from it was like, I don't
mind science fiction.

1185
01:06:05,980 --> 01:06:08,180
I just want to know that that's
what I'm watching.

1186
01:06:08,460 --> 01:06:11,380
And so there were a number of
critics that felt kind of duped

1187
01:06:11,380 --> 01:06:14,620
by the end of this movie.
I think that's intentional.

1188
01:06:14,700 --> 01:06:18,100
And I think that like, if you're
going to take the Freudian O

1189
01:06:18,100 --> 01:06:23,430
tourist reading of this movie.
The person that breaks the

1190
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:27,750
rules, the person that can't get
one up on Christian Bale by

1191
01:06:27,750 --> 01:06:32,230
playing fair, is the guy who
introduces new technology into

1192
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:34,950
the mix.
And Christian Bale and

1193
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:38,750
Christopher Nolan has gone on
record and become one of the

1194
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:42,990
biggest champions for filming
movies on film and preserving

1195
01:06:42,990 --> 01:06:47,110
movies that are shot on film
like he he has become.

1196
01:06:47,970 --> 01:06:50,170
I think probably more than
anybody else, except maybe

1197
01:06:50,170 --> 01:06:54,530
Scorsese, like the champion of
the analog as opposed to the

1198
01:06:54,530 --> 01:06:57,850
digital and this movie.
If you want to take that

1199
01:06:57,850 --> 01:07:00,970
reading, I think you could look
at that Hugh Jackman character

1200
01:07:00,970 --> 01:07:04,490
and say that's exactly what what
Nolan was trying to do, was to

1201
01:07:04,490 --> 01:07:09,570
present this guy as you're
cheating by trying to introduce

1202
01:07:09,810 --> 01:07:13,210
this entire new system.
You can't do it better than

1203
01:07:13,210 --> 01:07:16,810
somebody, and so you cheat, and
the cheating is the introduction

1204
01:07:16,810 --> 01:07:20,110
of these.
Computer, you know, facsimile

1205
01:07:20,110 --> 01:07:24,110
movies that are being churned
out from the time this movie is

1206
01:07:24,110 --> 01:07:25,990
made to now.
I really do think that's a

1207
01:07:25,990 --> 01:07:27,790
legitimate reading of the movie,
Brad.

1208
01:07:29,310 --> 01:07:31,550
I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna
soak in that for a minute.

1209
01:07:31,790 --> 01:07:33,910
Watch Bill go, come in and be
like, yeah, that's not a that's

1210
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:36,230
not a legitimate.
Are idiots.

1211
01:07:37,950 --> 01:07:39,630
I think that's a really
interesting reading.

1212
01:07:39,630 --> 01:07:44,190
I mean, I I think I I don't know
that that's what he was thinking

1213
01:07:44,190 --> 01:07:47,070
of.
Like in the moment.

1214
01:07:47,590 --> 01:07:51,990
Like in the moment, but, but,
but I mean, I think, I think you

1215
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:55,350
know having watched his films
and and you know having read

1216
01:07:55,350 --> 01:07:56,510
interviews with him and things
like that.

1217
01:07:56,510 --> 01:08:02,950
I mean there is a kind of how do
I say this without without

1218
01:08:03,110 --> 01:08:05,670
sounding like a criticism but
there is a kind of you know

1219
01:08:05,950 --> 01:08:10,830
almost a Burkean conservative
quality to Nolan, a sense of

1220
01:08:10,830 --> 01:08:14,750
like.
You know, preserving the past,

1221
01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:17,590
they're preserving aspects of
the past and and being, you

1222
01:08:17,590 --> 01:08:21,350
know, somewhat skeptical of of
technology.

1223
01:08:21,350 --> 01:08:25,069
I mean, it's not, I mean it's
in, it's in all his movies,

1224
01:08:25,069 --> 01:08:28,430
right.
The idea that that knowledge can

1225
01:08:28,430 --> 01:08:32,790
be a dangerous thing or the idea
of the machine that must not be

1226
01:08:32,790 --> 01:08:35,229
used, right.
I mean, I think he's fascinated

1227
01:08:35,229 --> 01:08:37,470
by the stuff.
I think he's fascinated by the

1228
01:08:37,470 --> 01:08:41,500
idea of.
You know, science and the idea

1229
01:08:41,500 --> 01:08:47,220
of progress and the idea of, you
know, can we build this thing?

1230
01:08:47,220 --> 01:08:51,140
Can we can we do this thing?
Like, these are all ideas that

1231
01:08:51,140 --> 01:08:53,899
that I think he's, he's engaged
with throughout his career.

1232
01:08:54,100 --> 01:08:57,180
But then there's also this like,
Oh my God, what have we done?

1233
01:08:57,420 --> 01:08:58,700
Right.
I mean, you see it in the, you

1234
01:08:58,700 --> 01:09:01,740
see it in the dark night, right,
with with Batman's like the

1235
01:09:01,740 --> 01:09:04,660
citywide sonar that he creates
at the end of the film, which,

1236
01:09:04,660 --> 01:09:08,080
you know, a lot of people.
We're critical of the film for

1237
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,960
that because they were like, oh,
this is a justification for Bush

1238
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,080
era surveillance.
I was like, no, it's actually

1239
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,520
like a criticism of Bush era
surve.

1240
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,520
Yeah, exactly.
Like it's it's a thing that in

1241
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:21,720
many ways it's it's that man's
moral downfall that he uses that

1242
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,160
thing and he and he and you know
he asks that it be destroyed.

1243
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:30,120
And in many ways it's one of the
reasons why he exiles himself

1244
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:31,840
from Gotham at the end of the
film.

1245
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,800
You know it's kind of.
You know, allows himself to be

1246
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:38,520
punished and and thought of as a
murderer because because of the

1247
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:40,680
the guilt that he feels over
this thing.

1248
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,760
So and you know, I mean you know
people will see, I mean anybody

1249
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,880
that knows the story of Robert
Oppenheimer is like that.

1250
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,359
I mean the machine that must not
be used, the ultimate machine

1251
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:57,640
that must not be used in atom
bomb you know and so I mean it's

1252
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:01,800
an idea that runs throughout no
one's filmography and.

1253
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:06,120
And so there is that, there's
that kind of fascination with

1254
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:12,400
and skepticism of that type of
sort of quote UN quote

1255
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,440
scientific progress.
I mean, it's not like it's not

1256
01:10:14,440 --> 01:10:17,760
really scientific progress, but
the idea that, you know, there

1257
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:21,800
are things we can do.
And and if we take our knowledge

1258
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:25,360
and our research to their
logical conclusion, like are we

1259
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,840
sure we're going to be happy
with what we find, you know?

1260
01:10:29,540 --> 01:10:34,340
Brad I I really do love the idea
of these characters as sort of

1261
01:10:34,340 --> 01:10:36,700
representative of Nolan in a
way, though, And I think that

1262
01:10:36,700 --> 01:10:40,100
there there are elements of the
themes that we see throughout

1263
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:41,180
Nolan.
So, like, if you want to read

1264
01:10:41,180 --> 01:10:45,260
Nolan on to these characters, I
think that final confrontation

1265
01:10:45,260 --> 01:10:48,740
between the two, between Bale
and Jackman, has such

1266
01:10:48,740 --> 01:10:51,900
fascinating implications because
they're both right and they're

1267
01:10:51,900 --> 01:10:56,600
both wrong, and it's really.
Jackman in a way that gets the

1268
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:58,240
last laugh, even though he's
dying.

1269
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:02,160
And he he basically tells
Christian Bale, like, you never

1270
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:06,240
understood why we do this.
Like you're obsessed with the

1271
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,320
craft, you're obsessed with
getting better, but you get no

1272
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,560
pleasure out of it, you get no
enjoyment out of it.

1273
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,560
And he says, like I, I have a
much more pessimistic outlook on

1274
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:21,160
the world, but what I get joy
from is being able to fool these

1275
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:23,880
people for one second and seeing
the look on their faces.

1276
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,040
And I've.
I've been really struggling to

1277
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:29,800
figure out like, is does Nolan
believe that, like is Nolan

1278
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,520
inserting himself into a
character that he may not

1279
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,640
actually agree with his
motivations on?

1280
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:40,000
Like, because I think I can't
tell if he's associating himself

1281
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:41,680
more with bail or more with
Jackman.

1282
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:43,160
Right.
And it seems in a way, like

1283
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,440
Nolan's almost trying to teach
himself something at the end of

1284
01:11:46,440 --> 01:11:49,120
this movie.
And I find it to be, you know,

1285
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,560
we have these movies every now
and then, Brad, where we you and

1286
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:53,250
I just.
You know, we had a field day

1287
01:11:53,250 --> 01:11:55,130
with Spielberg.
Like, every every movie with

1288
01:11:55,130 --> 01:11:57,170
Spielberg is like, you could
psychoanalyze the hell out of

1289
01:11:57,170 --> 01:11:59,210
this, right?
Yeah, I feel like this might.

1290
01:11:59,250 --> 01:12:05,090
This movie in particular seems
the most like a window into

1291
01:12:05,210 --> 01:12:11,330
Nolan's psyche, but it's not
always 100% clear what he's

1292
01:12:11,330 --> 01:12:15,170
implicating himself in.
Yeah, I mean, in in a certain

1293
01:12:15,170 --> 01:12:18,610
sense, this is a movie about
putting on performances, right?

1294
01:12:18,610 --> 01:12:21,970
Like getting up on a stage and
putting on a show for people

1295
01:12:22,290 --> 01:12:23,890
where they suspend their
disbelief.

1296
01:12:24,050 --> 01:12:27,210
So like in a weird way, this is
a movie about making movies.

1297
01:12:27,730 --> 01:12:31,890
And I I think that with that in
mind, you can definitely point

1298
01:12:31,890 --> 01:12:35,650
to certain things and say like,
yeah, Nolan is is most likely

1299
01:12:35,650 --> 01:12:38,410
inserting himself into these
places.

1300
01:12:38,770 --> 01:12:41,410
I I think the fascinating thing
for me is the idea of like.

1301
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:48,680
Jonathan and him as a as a duo
like to me it's just fascinating

1302
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:52,600
that Jonathan continues to write
these movies for him and the

1303
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:56,680
idea that they are a pair here
like that is fascinating to me.

1304
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,280
To see played out in the
prestige that these two brothers

1305
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:03,480
are so close that they're able
to work together in such a

1306
01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:05,000
capacity.
Right.

1307
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:06,720
Like there's got to be something
there, right?

1308
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:10,640
And to, you know, and to share a
woman, you know, like, very

1309
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:13,600
crucially that is we, we cannot
emphasize enough.

1310
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,760
That is the key to this whole
Christopher had to like, sit

1311
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,240
down with his wife one night and
be like, alright honey, like

1312
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,600
this isn't actually about
please, please don't read too

1313
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:26,800
much into this movie, Brad,
before we get into our last

1314
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,480
couple segments.
I feel like I'm going to be the

1315
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:33,240
guy that I always hate hearing
from.

1316
01:13:33,970 --> 01:13:36,210
And that's the guy that's like,
well, actually, I found some

1317
01:13:36,210 --> 01:13:38,930
plot holes in this.
I hate the plot hole guy, right?

1318
01:13:38,930 --> 01:13:42,650
But I do think that the reason I
will not give this movie like a

1319
01:13:42,650 --> 01:13:46,290
perfect score and that I don't
think it works perfectly is that

1320
01:13:46,610 --> 01:13:50,490
while it's not reliant on the
twist, there are implications of

1321
01:13:50,490 --> 01:13:54,210
the twist that are kind of like,
hold on a second, you know what

1322
01:13:54,210 --> 01:13:54,730
I mean?
Like.

1323
01:13:55,650 --> 01:13:59,250
Why did Hugh Jackman just hold
on to all of these bodies in the

1324
01:13:59,250 --> 01:14:01,130
basement?
Like, you know, you can't like,

1325
01:14:01,130 --> 01:14:04,370
dump them in the river, like tie
a brick to them or something.

1326
01:14:04,370 --> 01:14:08,930
Like there are there's just a
few unanswered questions that if

1327
01:14:08,930 --> 01:14:11,850
you think about it for more than
two seconds, it really does kind

1328
01:14:11,850 --> 01:14:16,010
of harm the twist of the movie.
I think that's ultimately why,

1329
01:14:16,010 --> 01:14:18,450
like, the fact that the movie's
not relying on the twist is a

1330
01:14:18,450 --> 01:14:20,170
good thing.
Because if it was relying on the

1331
01:14:20,170 --> 01:14:23,210
twist, I think people could
really, like, eviscerate this

1332
01:14:23,210 --> 01:14:25,890
movie if they wanted to.
But there's just something

1333
01:14:25,890 --> 01:14:30,490
about, like, was the makeup on
on the Twin really that

1334
01:14:30,490 --> 01:14:35,090
convincing that they could
kidnap him and bury him alive

1335
01:14:35,090 --> 01:14:38,370
after, I'm assuming, roughing
him up And, like, his false

1336
01:14:38,370 --> 01:14:41,250
mustache never came off.
Like, and they never noticed

1337
01:14:41,250 --> 01:14:44,130
that he looked exactly like
Christian Bale with a mustache.

1338
01:14:44,130 --> 01:14:46,650
You know what I mean?
Like, there are elements of the

1339
01:14:46,650 --> 01:14:51,170
movie that it's you really got
us stretch the limits of your

1340
01:14:51,170 --> 01:14:53,780
belief.
For me, the one thing that

1341
01:14:53,780 --> 01:14:59,140
really stretched my belief was
the fact that he just had made

1342
01:14:59,500 --> 01:15:04,580
millions and millions of dollars
off of his magic show so that he

1343
01:15:04,580 --> 01:15:09,420
could go live in Colorado for
six to 10 months and finance all

1344
01:15:09,420 --> 01:15:12,260
of Nikola Tesla's stuff.
Like that was the one thing

1345
01:15:12,260 --> 01:15:14,860
where I was like, man, where did
he get all this money?

1346
01:15:14,900 --> 01:15:18,460
And then he comes back and he's
able to establish himself as an

1347
01:15:18,460 --> 01:15:22,240
English Lord.
With like a castle and grounds

1348
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,240
and servants, I was just like,
where did all this money come

1349
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:29,280
from?
But isn't isn't his whole thing

1350
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:34,160
that, that, that that's actually
like that he is actually he

1351
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:36,800
comes from money, right?
Isn't that I thought that was

1352
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,880
the whole thing like.
Yeah, like there's definitely

1353
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,960
class elements to it.
That's because he does have that

1354
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:45,160
line where he says, like, you
know, my family thought that

1355
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,560
this was too, you know, low for
me.

1356
01:15:47,850 --> 01:15:50,490
Yeah, like he's running from his
his family well.

1357
01:15:51,050 --> 01:15:53,370
No, you're probably right.
I honestly didn't think about

1358
01:15:53,370 --> 01:15:55,490
that.
Yeah, but but you know that's

1359
01:15:55,650 --> 01:15:59,770
that's fair.
One thing that really pulls me

1360
01:15:59,770 --> 01:16:02,610
out of the movie, and this is a
complete aside, guys, is like

1361
01:16:03,450 --> 01:16:06,570
when he's dressed up as the
Twin, what's what's the guy's

1362
01:16:06,570 --> 01:16:08,130
name that he calls himself as
the Twin?

1363
01:16:10,050 --> 01:16:12,490
Oh God, I forgot.
Yeah, OK, whatever.

1364
01:16:13,250 --> 01:16:15,850
You know, we'll call him Jeff
when he's when he's dressed up

1365
01:16:15,850 --> 01:16:18,190
as Jeff.
They get, you know, he has these

1366
01:16:18,190 --> 01:16:20,750
kind of like little pudgy
chipmunk cheeks a little bit.

1367
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:24,630
He looks exactly like Charlie
Day from It's Always Sunny in

1368
01:16:24,630 --> 01:16:26,990
Philadelphia, like in Victorian
garb.

1369
01:16:28,110 --> 01:16:31,590
And there were a couple times
that I was like how much better

1370
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:35,430
would this movie be with like a
Day Man song inserted into it.

1371
01:16:35,470 --> 01:16:38,910
You know, like I I could not get
over, go back and watch it

1372
01:16:38,910 --> 01:16:41,470
again.
It's it's uncanny how much he

1373
01:16:41,470 --> 01:16:44,840
looks like Charlie Day.
Oh man, we need to get away from

1374
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:50,160
day man real quick, Bob.
So I I actually have a a a plot

1375
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:53,760
hole as well.
And it it, I think it only

1376
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,920
really dawned on me the last
time I saw the film.

1377
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,760
Possibly it dawned on me before
too and I just forgot about it.

1378
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:03,760
But so I mean, as we see in the
opening scene of the film,

1379
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,960
Christian Bale, he's his
character like it's, you know,

1380
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:11,800
Hugh Jackman is doing The
Transported Man, Christian Bale.

1381
01:17:12,330 --> 01:17:16,490
Goes down there, sees Hugh
Jackman in the in the tub of

1382
01:17:16,490 --> 01:17:23,890
water drowning.
And he, you know, he tries to,

1383
01:17:24,050 --> 01:17:26,330
you know bust through and he
doesn't.

1384
01:17:26,330 --> 01:17:29,490
And you know is is accused of
killing Hugh Jackman.

1385
01:17:33,010 --> 01:17:37,290
But like, given how quickly the
the magic trick works, by that

1386
01:17:37,290 --> 01:17:39,610
point Hugh Jackman would have
been.

1387
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,480
Replicated already in the
audience.

1388
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:45,760
And like, reemerged.
Yeah. 100% emerged, right.

1389
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:48,480
So at that point, you can't
blame it, like you can't accuse

1390
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:53,440
him of murdering the guy.
After you have to reveal that

1391
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:55,280
there is another Hugh Jackman,
right?

1392
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:58,240
I mean, it's it's that doesn't
quite work for me.

1393
01:17:58,480 --> 01:18:02,640
I think the implication there is
that, like with most times where

1394
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:07,040
they're both undercover, the
magician figures it at like.

1395
01:18:07,390 --> 01:18:10,950
He I think he sees Christian
Bale come up on stage and makes

1396
01:18:10,950 --> 01:18:14,470
the split second decision of
like I am not going to come out

1397
01:18:14,550 --> 01:18:16,350
and reveal myself after I get
cloned.

1398
01:18:16,350 --> 01:18:19,670
I'm going to run off and start
this new life because this is my

1399
01:18:19,670 --> 01:18:24,510
opportunity to frame Christian
Bale like that was at least my

1400
01:18:24,510 --> 01:18:26,910
reading of it, right Like he
made he made the decision

1401
01:18:26,910 --> 01:18:31,590
because I I think the the
cloning machine he recalibrates

1402
01:18:31,590 --> 01:18:34,310
it so that instead of cloning
him in place.

1403
01:18:35,260 --> 01:18:37,980
The clone is the one that stays
behind in place and gets dropped

1404
01:18:37,980 --> 01:18:40,940
into the the water, and then the
real Hugh Jackman is the one

1405
01:18:40,940 --> 01:18:42,980
that gets shot into the back of
the theater, right?

1406
01:18:43,180 --> 01:18:46,500
Oh, see, I never thought that.
They're both real.

1407
01:18:46,700 --> 01:18:48,540
That's the thing.
It's like, cuz, he says.

1408
01:18:48,540 --> 01:18:51,460
I never knew if I was going to
be the one to drown or not.

1409
01:18:51,460 --> 01:18:54,180
Like that's that's the thing
that's that's tearing him apart.

1410
01:18:54,180 --> 01:18:56,700
Is that it?
I mean, it's a it's a if you

1411
01:18:56,700 --> 01:19:00,860
think about it, it's kind of an
elegant counterpoint to the fact

1412
01:19:00,860 --> 01:19:03,960
that.
Christian Bale is living 2 lives

1413
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:08,040
like he's he's like dying a
death.

1414
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:11,480
Like he's he's he's he's dying 2
deaths in a way.

1415
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:15,000
Like not two deaths, but like
it's a kind of like, but it's

1416
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:16,600
like a mirror image of that,
right?

1417
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:21,040
Because you know, Christian Bale
never knows who's going to,

1418
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,120
who's living his life at any
given moment.

1419
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,920
And then Christie Hugh Jackman
doesn't know who's dying his

1420
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:27,280
death at any given moment.
Yeah.

1421
01:19:29,170 --> 01:19:31,050
So that's the thing.
It's like she doesn't know

1422
01:19:31,050 --> 01:19:34,530
because his consciousness is
being fractured essentially.

1423
01:19:35,410 --> 01:19:37,410
And there are two of them, but
one dies.

1424
01:19:39,210 --> 01:19:42,170
And that's, I mean that's
fascinating because he doesn't

1425
01:19:42,170 --> 01:19:43,570
know.
He doesn't know like when he

1426
01:19:43,570 --> 01:19:48,050
goes into the thing, that
particular consciousness.

1427
01:19:49,230 --> 01:19:50,870
Am I?
Am I the one that's going to end

1428
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:53,110
up in the drink, or am I the one
that's going to end up in the

1429
01:19:53,150 --> 01:19:54,510
thing?
Got it, got it.

1430
01:19:54,510 --> 01:19:57,830
Honestly, it it almost feels
like getting into a time travel

1431
01:19:57,830 --> 01:20:01,070
conversation with your friends
about like how time travel

1432
01:20:01,070 --> 01:20:04,950
works, where you're like, well,
if he if he's splitting, like is

1433
01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:08,590
he an exact copy at the back of
the at the back of the theater

1434
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:11,450
that like.
Not only is an exact copy of

1435
01:20:11,450 --> 01:20:15,810
knowing everything that the
original knows, but also feeling

1436
01:20:15,810 --> 01:20:18,890
everything that the original
feels like, feeling the depth of

1437
01:20:18,890 --> 01:20:22,850
hatred towards Christian Bale
and and like, like, there's so

1438
01:20:22,850 --> 01:20:25,770
many questions that I had coming
out of the theater when I first

1439
01:20:25,770 --> 01:20:28,730
watched this of like and it was
all about the cloning.

1440
01:20:28,850 --> 01:20:31,810
Like, I didn't, I didn't care
about anything else in the film.

1441
01:20:31,810 --> 01:20:34,250
I was like, I need to know how
this cloning works.

1442
01:20:34,570 --> 01:20:37,610
And now 15 years later, I'm
like, oh, the movie's a lot more

1443
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:40,810
than that.
Well, I mean it is, but it also

1444
01:20:40,810 --> 01:20:42,570
it's like it ties directly into
that, right.

1445
01:20:42,570 --> 01:20:47,290
It it ties into this idea of the
fractured self and and what that

1446
01:20:47,330 --> 01:20:50,770
means for cloning and which is
actually, you know, which I

1447
01:20:50,770 --> 01:20:53,610
guess is a question if, you
know, if cloning were to be

1448
01:20:53,610 --> 01:20:55,690
possible, like that's that's the
thing that we would have to be

1449
01:20:55,690 --> 01:20:57,810
wrestling with.
And but The Fractured Self is

1450
01:20:57,810 --> 01:20:59,930
also this idea that runs
throughout Nolan's movie.

1451
01:20:59,930 --> 01:21:03,770
I mean the superhero movie is
like Bruce Wayne and Batman.

1452
01:21:03,770 --> 01:21:06,250
I'm talking about a fractured
self and a guy who can't live.

1453
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,280
One full life, one fully
realized life.

1454
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,520
I mean, you see a variation of
it Inception.

1455
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:17,240
You see a variation of it in
Interstellar, you see it in

1456
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:19,160
tenant, right?
I mean, you know, the most

1457
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:23,240
powerful moment of tenant for me
is, you know, at the end when

1458
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:26,560
they go back to the airport and
we suddenly realized, oh, he was

1459
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:31,160
fighting himself in that scene.
That scene is so powerful to me

1460
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,420
because it's like.
Obviously within the context of

1461
01:21:33,420 --> 01:21:36,020
the movie, it's about a specific
thing and you know it's an

1462
01:21:36,020 --> 01:21:38,740
action movie and whatnot.
But like there's such a such

1463
01:21:38,740 --> 01:21:42,580
great metaphorical power in
that, you know and and I think

1464
01:21:42,580 --> 01:21:45,460
Nolan is very much aware of it
because he's been, he's been

1465
01:21:45,460 --> 01:21:48,260
playing with this idea his whole
life, right?

1466
01:21:48,260 --> 01:21:50,420
And even even Memento.
Oh yeah.

1467
01:21:51,500 --> 01:21:53,900
Like who killed my wife?
Oh, I did.

1468
01:21:54,260 --> 01:21:56,900
You know, like.
But I can't live with that.

1469
01:21:57,100 --> 01:22:02,230
So let me Yeah, exactly right.
So yeah, I mean it's just this

1470
01:22:02,230 --> 01:22:05,950
thing in in in all his movies
and I find that really powerful.

1471
01:22:07,710 --> 01:22:08,990
But yeah, you know it's in the
book.

1472
01:22:08,990 --> 01:22:12,110
It's it really is it's it's a
really great book.

1473
01:22:12,110 --> 01:22:14,630
But it is so much more a novel
than a film.

1474
01:22:14,670 --> 01:22:20,910
And and and I actually, I gained
even more respect for Nolan and

1475
01:22:21,110 --> 01:22:24,550
and for Jonathan Nolan after I
read the novel because I I just

1476
01:22:24,550 --> 01:22:29,310
kept thinking to myself.
There's so many changes they've

1477
01:22:29,310 --> 01:22:33,030
made to the novel while sort of
maintaining its spirit.

1478
01:22:33,790 --> 01:22:38,790
Like the changes that they've
made make it so much more

1479
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:40,870
effective as a film.
But the novel, you could not

1480
01:22:40,870 --> 01:22:43,070
adapt that novel straight into a
movie.

1481
01:22:43,070 --> 01:22:46,750
It just wouldn't work at all.
It works beautifully as a novel.

1482
01:22:48,730 --> 01:22:51,250
And it's so different like the
film is so different in so many

1483
01:22:51,250 --> 01:22:54,530
ways but but they've streamlined
it and simplified it but then it

1484
01:22:54,530 --> 01:22:57,090
expanded on certain other
elements in the in the novel

1485
01:22:57,090 --> 01:23:02,130
that are just briefly mentioned
and and it really it's just it's

1486
01:23:02,130 --> 01:23:04,850
a it's a wonderful adaptation in
that sense.

1487
01:23:04,850 --> 01:23:08,050
I mean if I ever like taught a
class about you know adapting

1488
01:23:08,050 --> 01:23:09,930
books to film, I would assign
this one.

1489
01:23:10,330 --> 01:23:12,690
Man, I'm really regretting not
picking the book up before we

1490
01:23:12,690 --> 01:23:14,090
recorded this one, Brad.
Like.

1491
01:23:14,620 --> 01:23:16,980
Yeah, you know, every once in a
while I think you can get away

1492
01:23:16,980 --> 01:23:18,580
with it.
Like, yeah, I didn't really need

1493
01:23:18,580 --> 01:23:20,780
to read the book because the
movie's so good, but it sounds

1494
01:23:20,780 --> 01:23:23,660
like they really, you know, it.
It is.

1495
01:23:23,660 --> 01:23:26,620
It's really interesting when
it's a true adaptation, when

1496
01:23:26,620 --> 01:23:28,580
it's not just lifted from page
to screen.

1497
01:23:28,940 --> 01:23:32,380
And they they do find ways to
make it more cinematic.

1498
01:23:32,380 --> 01:23:33,540
It sounds like that was the case
here.

1499
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:35,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, you don't have to read

1500
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,440
the book to to be able to
appreciate the movie.

1501
01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:38,640
So.
So don't worry about the fact

1502
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,160
that you haven't read the book.
But it is like if you do read

1503
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:44,720
the book, you gain a newfound, a
different appreciation of it

1504
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,480
because it's like, oh wow, like
what possessed them to to do

1505
01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:51,720
this with this story element?
You know, it's you'll, you'll

1506
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:53,560
read the book.
I mean it's it's honestly, I

1507
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,240
read it in like 2 days and I'm
not a fast reader at all and

1508
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:59,040
it's like 350 pages.
It just breezes by.

1509
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:02,600
Well, guys, I think this is like
a perfect segue into talking

1510
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:05,480
about a perfect movie to pair
this up with.

1511
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:08,280
So Brad, let's get into our
final segment of the day, which

1512
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:11,160
we call, let's make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1513
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:14,520
episode, so thanks for listening
to the film and whiskey show.

1514
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,520
Let's pair another film with
this one.

1515
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:18,920
Even if it's struggle, it's a
final segment of the day.

1516
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:21,400
Now let's make it a double.
Like I said, let's make it a

1517
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:24,040
double is the part of the show
where we paired this movie up

1518
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,080
with a second film to make the
perfect double feature.

1519
01:24:27,780 --> 01:24:30,460
Brad, as we have a guest with us
today, I think we should let him

1520
01:24:30,460 --> 01:24:32,700
go first.
Bilga, we've been giving you

1521
01:24:32,700 --> 01:24:35,580
some time to to ruminate, to
marinate on this.

1522
01:24:35,900 --> 01:24:37,540
What would you pair the Prestige
with?

1523
01:24:38,740 --> 01:24:41,660
You know, I went back and forth
on this one.

1524
01:24:42,180 --> 01:24:45,260
Obviously there are two sort of
obvious examples that that I

1525
01:24:45,260 --> 01:24:47,140
need that are not going to be my
choice.

1526
01:24:47,140 --> 01:24:49,140
But you know, we've talked about
the illusionist.

1527
01:24:49,140 --> 01:24:51,490
I mean it.
The movie effectively was a

1528
01:24:51,490 --> 01:24:55,450
double feature in that sense.
You know Illusionist, which is

1529
01:24:55,450 --> 01:25:00,450
the other period magic drama
thriller that about obsession

1530
01:25:00,450 --> 01:25:02,810
that that came out around the
same time and which I think.

1531
01:25:03,010 --> 01:25:05,010
Lows but.
Haven't revisited since then,

1532
01:25:08,130 --> 01:25:11,490
but was also seen by a lot of
people as because Prestige was

1533
01:25:11,490 --> 01:25:13,970
kind of like the studio movie
and the illusionist was like the

1534
01:25:13,970 --> 01:25:16,650
Sundance movie.
So no, the Illusionist is like

1535
01:25:16,650 --> 01:25:19,650
the real real good movie and
Prestige is just.

1536
01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:25,300
You know, studio fluff with
movie stars and so.

1537
01:25:26,140 --> 01:25:29,180
And then of course there's the,
the obvious, also obvious double

1538
01:25:29,180 --> 01:25:32,180
feature of Batman Begins, which
was Christopher Nolan's other

1539
01:25:32,180 --> 01:25:35,500
film this year, which is also
about a fracture itself and

1540
01:25:35,500 --> 01:25:44,900
about obsession and about trauma
and, you know, righteous rage

1541
01:25:44,900 --> 01:25:47,520
that.
Kurdles into something worse.

1542
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,240
And I mean there's there's so
many themes that are in both

1543
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,440
movies that you could create a
great double feature of the two

1544
01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:55,520
films.
But the movie I'm going to go

1545
01:25:55,520 --> 01:26:00,920
with is a movie made by a
gentleman with whom I just

1546
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:04,360
published an interview that I
think also makes movies about

1547
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:09,480
two opposing strong opposing
personalities who in some ways.

1548
01:26:10,750 --> 01:26:13,430
Can't live without each other,
but are often trying to destroy

1549
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:16,310
one another, and that movie is
John Woo's face off.

1550
01:26:16,550 --> 01:26:20,390
Yes.
Which is which is another movie

1551
01:26:20,390 --> 01:26:25,470
that turns on like a scientific
invention that seems utterly

1552
01:26:25,470 --> 01:26:28,710
absurd and yet the film just
kind of takes it as a matter of

1553
01:26:28,710 --> 01:26:32,470
fact.
But also is about like, I mean

1554
01:26:32,470 --> 01:26:36,590
in in its own completely
demented, entirely unknown like

1555
01:26:36,590 --> 01:26:38,750
way, but is about like 2
characters.

1556
01:26:39,480 --> 01:26:44,440
Who are kind of unable to live
their their real lives because

1557
01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:49,200
of their obsession with one
another and that becomes, you

1558
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:54,280
know, physically manifested in
like the fractured cells in so

1559
01:26:54,280 --> 01:27:01,240
far as in this case, they trade
each other's faces, yes, face

1560
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:03,840
off and the prestige I think
would make a fantastic bell

1561
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:05,570
feature.
Brad, I don't think we're going

1562
01:27:05,570 --> 01:27:07,170
to top this.
I'm so mad that we didn't say

1563
01:27:07,170 --> 01:27:09,370
that for last because that's
what I mean.

1564
01:27:09,410 --> 01:27:13,730
Anytime you can suggest a
Travolta Cage pairing with any

1565
01:27:13,730 --> 01:27:15,930
movie we do, you you win.
Yeah.

1566
01:27:16,970 --> 01:27:18,010
All right, Brad, you want to go
next?

1567
01:27:18,850 --> 01:27:21,850
Sure.
I, you know, I usually try to

1568
01:27:21,850 --> 01:27:24,890
pick my double feature based on
the theme of the film.

1569
01:27:25,490 --> 01:27:26,810
And so I started thinking of my
brand.

1570
01:27:26,810 --> 01:27:29,010
I was like, what are some great
movies about, like

1571
01:27:29,010 --> 01:27:33,490
obsessiveness?
And I realized there will be

1572
01:27:33,490 --> 01:27:35,970
blood.
I think would be just an

1573
01:27:35,970 --> 01:27:40,490
incredible double feature and I
so yeah, that's my pick.

1574
01:27:40,490 --> 01:27:43,050
There will be Blood.
I think it would be a really

1575
01:27:43,050 --> 01:27:46,210
depressing evening but I think
you would watch some great

1576
01:27:46,210 --> 01:27:47,050
cinema.
There you go.

1577
01:27:48,210 --> 01:27:51,130
In reading a little bit about
this movie and some of the

1578
01:27:51,130 --> 01:27:54,210
reviews that came out, one of
the films that continually came

1579
01:27:54,210 --> 01:27:58,090
up as a comparison point to this
was Amadeus in terms of, you

1580
01:27:58,090 --> 01:28:02,250
know, a a diabolical and deadly
rivalry.

1581
01:28:02,770 --> 01:28:05,610
And I think that that's a
fantastic pairing, but it's not

1582
01:28:05,610 --> 01:28:08,010
original to me, so I'm not going
to claim it, but I do think

1583
01:28:08,010 --> 01:28:09,730
that's probably one of the
better ones you could do.

1584
01:28:10,450 --> 01:28:13,730
I started thinking back through
movies about obsession as well,

1585
01:28:13,730 --> 01:28:16,650
Brad, and I'm going to come out
with a pretty, you know, a

1586
01:28:16,650 --> 01:28:20,250
pretty milquetoast 1 here.
But like, it's Vertigo, man.

1587
01:28:20,410 --> 01:28:26,290
Like a movie about a man who's
the, the, the blonde love of his

1588
01:28:26,290 --> 01:28:31,090
life is taken from him by a lie
that is being told around him.

1589
01:28:31,770 --> 01:28:35,690
And that he obsessively tries to
recreate a time in his life by

1590
01:28:35,690 --> 01:28:39,290
making it again in his own
image, only to his utter ruin.

1591
01:28:39,450 --> 01:28:42,890
Like if it does not get more
similar thematically than to

1592
01:28:42,890 --> 01:28:45,810
pair this movie for me at least,
with Vertigo.

1593
01:28:45,810 --> 01:28:48,650
And I think that like any chance
I get to recommend Vertigo to

1594
01:28:48,650 --> 01:28:52,410
people, I'm going to do it.
Yeah, that that's a that is a

1595
01:28:52,450 --> 01:28:55,490
perfect recommendation, Bob.
It's not as good as face off,

1596
01:28:55,490 --> 01:28:56,770
but I had.
I did my best.

1597
01:28:57,170 --> 01:28:58,250
No, it's a good one.
Both.

1598
01:28:58,290 --> 01:29:00,370
Both of you came up with great
ones, I think.

1599
01:29:01,230 --> 01:29:03,710
I will say that the, the, the
Vertigo thing makes me think,

1600
01:29:03,710 --> 01:29:06,350
you know there's probably a
really great like Brian De Palma

1601
01:29:06,350 --> 01:29:09,750
film that prestige would we
could also like hire Brian De

1602
01:29:09,750 --> 01:29:13,390
Palma to remake the prestige and
which would probably result in

1603
01:29:13,390 --> 01:29:17,870
the just the sickest movie ever.
But but yeah, you know like like

1604
01:29:18,790 --> 01:29:22,190
I mean body double or femme
fatale or you know there's so

1605
01:29:22,190 --> 01:29:25,790
many films that you know that
that take the ideas that are in

1606
01:29:25,790 --> 01:29:28,950
the prestige and just that are
late in the prestige and just

1607
01:29:28,950 --> 01:29:31,210
make them over.
You know, I was thinking about

1608
01:29:31,210 --> 01:29:33,250
this, actually.
It's a, it's a great point that

1609
01:29:33,250 --> 01:29:37,330
you make like in in the current
IP wasteland that we're in,

1610
01:29:37,330 --> 01:29:40,530
where every filmmaker just has
to get, you know, a Mattel

1611
01:29:40,530 --> 01:29:41,970
product handed to them or
something.

1612
01:29:41,970 --> 01:29:45,530
Like, I've been trying to think
of, if Nolan were to do a

1613
01:29:45,530 --> 01:29:48,890
recognizable IP again outside of
Batman, like what would be a

1614
01:29:48,890 --> 01:29:51,450
great one?
Thematically, they've been

1615
01:29:51,450 --> 01:29:53,970
thinking about Frankenstein and
like.

1616
01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:56,910
No one's made a good
Frankenstein movie in a long

1617
01:29:56,910 --> 01:29:59,870
time, and I really think this
idea of like, trying to

1618
01:29:59,870 --> 01:30:03,510
resurrect the past and creating
a freakish creature out of it

1619
01:30:03,550 --> 01:30:07,590
and the ruination of everybody
as a result, like that's a

1620
01:30:07,590 --> 01:30:10,830
Christopher Nolan movie if I've
ever heard of 1.

1621
01:30:11,390 --> 01:30:13,110
So this is my official.
Pitch like.

1622
01:30:13,550 --> 01:30:17,140
Yeah, exactly.
Now if you could tell it in like

1623
01:30:17,140 --> 01:30:20,660
4 different story like timelines
then it it's definitely a

1624
01:30:20,660 --> 01:30:22,500
perfect.
Well, you'd have to tell like,

1625
01:30:22,580 --> 01:30:27,100
like the the story of the bride
and then, yeah, Frankenstein.

1626
01:30:27,420 --> 01:30:28,980
And then you'd have to tell the
story of.

1627
01:30:29,370 --> 01:30:31,650
Like Dr. Frankenstein.
And then you'd have to tell the

1628
01:30:31,650 --> 01:30:33,690
story of, like, Mary Shelley,
and then you'd have to

1629
01:30:33,690 --> 01:30:37,770
interweave them.
But which, by the way, like, why

1630
01:30:37,770 --> 01:30:39,410
are we even talking about this
in public?

1631
01:30:39,410 --> 01:30:41,530
We should just, like, write that
treatment and send it to him A.

1632
01:30:41,610 --> 01:30:45,050
100%.
But yes, and then you know Nolan

1633
01:30:45,050 --> 01:30:48,250
is a is a big fan of of Stanley
Kubrick obviously.

1634
01:30:48,250 --> 01:30:51,570
And every Kubrick movie is, is
on some level of Frankenstein

1635
01:30:51,610 --> 01:30:53,770
story.
You know like it's no, you're

1636
01:30:53,770 --> 01:30:55,850
right, you're absolutely right.
And Frankenstein like all those

1637
01:30:55,850 --> 01:30:59,980
ideas that are in his movies.
You know, the idea of, you know,

1638
01:31:00,540 --> 01:31:03,580
the monstrousness of scientific
knowledge and and the machine

1639
01:31:03,580 --> 01:31:06,540
that was not be used.
And I mean there's so many great

1640
01:31:06,620 --> 01:31:08,620
great ideas there.
Wow, that's a great idea.

1641
01:31:09,300 --> 01:31:11,700
I will leave it at that.
I was complimented by Bill

1642
01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:16,420
Gabiri and my day has been made.
Guys, let's give this movie some

1643
01:31:16,420 --> 01:31:18,620
final scores.
Brad, I'll just get mine out of

1644
01:31:18,620 --> 01:31:20,580
the way real quick.
I think this is a really, really

1645
01:31:20,580 --> 01:31:23,380
good movie.
My enjoyment level of the movie

1646
01:31:23,380 --> 01:31:26,420
was probably like a nine out of
10 and I was not expecting that.

1647
01:31:27,230 --> 01:31:31,110
I think I'm going to come to an
8.5 on this movie just because I

1648
01:31:31,110 --> 01:31:34,030
do think there are some plot
holes in the movie.

1649
01:31:34,030 --> 01:31:35,590
There are some flaws to the
film.

1650
01:31:35,830 --> 01:31:40,430
It's not a perfect movie, but
this has pretty rapidly risen up

1651
01:31:40,430 --> 01:31:43,630
my ranking of Nolan films.
I think this is a great movie

1652
01:31:43,870 --> 01:31:46,830
and definitely fodder for some
really good double features as

1653
01:31:46,830 --> 01:31:48,710
well.
So it's an 8.5 for me.

1654
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:54,640
Yeah, I think for me, I I came
into this curious, you know,

1655
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:57,400
this is his fourth film.
Fifth maybe?

1656
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:01,360
5th movie. 5th movie and I I
feel like watching Memento, we

1657
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:03,840
mentioned that there was one or
two moments, especially in the

1658
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,000
flashback scenes, where I was
like, oh, there's Nolan, like,

1659
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:12,480
like I can feel him in this
scene and I feel like prestige,

1660
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:14,680
you know, you get some of that
and Batman Begins there.

1661
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:17,800
There's there are things from
that movie that feel very

1662
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:20,670
Nolanesque.
I feel like this is the first

1663
01:32:20,670 --> 01:32:25,710
movie where I am fully immersed
and I feel like I am watching a

1664
01:32:25,710 --> 01:32:29,110
Capital C Christopher Nolan
film, right?

1665
01:32:29,710 --> 01:32:34,310
And so I think that that goes a
long way towards showing what an

1666
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:37,750
incredible director he is, that
that he is getting his grip on

1667
01:32:37,750 --> 01:32:40,270
what his movies are going to
feel like.

1668
01:32:41,030 --> 01:32:44,470
And on top of all that, it's an
incredible story about two men.

1669
01:32:44,970 --> 01:32:49,330
And their obsessive nature that
just spirals into insanity.

1670
01:32:49,370 --> 01:32:51,450
And I I really, really love this
movie.

1671
01:32:51,690 --> 01:32:53,970
It's going to keep me coming
back for years to come.

1672
01:32:53,970 --> 01:32:55,650
So yeah, it's a nine out of 10
for me.

1673
01:32:57,330 --> 01:33:01,090
I think I I mean, I I'm terrible
with ratings because the movies

1674
01:33:01,090 --> 01:33:05,610
I love are the ones I love and
and I can't, you know, clearly,

1675
01:33:05,610 --> 01:33:10,250
like it's a 10 out of 10 for me.
I just, I revisited so many

1676
01:33:10,250 --> 01:33:13,800
times.
I I have a an ongoing null and

1677
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:17,000
ranking at Vulture.
I think it's #3 there, number

1678
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,440
three or four.
But it's also like every single

1679
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:22,720
one of those movies is great
like except for like maybe the

1680
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:25,440
bottom two which are following
in insomnia, you know.

1681
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:31,080
So it's like I can't I can't
give it less than a 10 even

1682
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:34,400
though you know it's it's not
quite on the level of Dark

1683
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:37,320
Knight or Dunkirk for me.
But you know what is?

1684
01:33:38,390 --> 01:33:40,390
All right, so there you have it.
I gave it an 8 1/2.

1685
01:33:40,390 --> 01:33:42,510
Brad gave it a nine.
Builder gives it A10.

1686
01:33:42,750 --> 01:33:45,550
I love it when our scores ascend
as we give them.

1687
01:33:45,550 --> 01:33:48,870
That's always nice.
It's always nice when a guest

1688
01:33:48,870 --> 01:33:53,070
comes on the show and is like,
man, I love this movie and

1689
01:33:53,070 --> 01:33:55,270
here's why.
And I'm have zero shame.

1690
01:33:55,270 --> 01:33:57,950
It's a 10 out of 10.
That like that just warms my

1691
01:33:57,950 --> 01:33:58,910
heart.
Me too.

1692
01:33:59,030 --> 01:34:02,150
And that's like, my expectation
because when we when we send out

1693
01:34:02,150 --> 01:34:04,310
invites to guests, like, we let
them pick the movie.

1694
01:34:04,310 --> 01:34:06,430
And I'm always shocked when
someone's like, yeah, this is a

1695
01:34:06,430 --> 01:34:08,400
solid 7.
Like, what are you talking

1696
01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:09,840
about?
Like, you, you picked this

1697
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:11,760
movie, man.
So.

1698
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,480
So Bilga, thank you for doing
what you're supposed to do and

1699
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:16,080
giving this movie a 10 out of
10.

1700
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:17,920
I appreciate it.
Oh yeah.

1701
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:22,280
All right, as we wind down
today, Bilga, please plug

1702
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:23,560
yourself.
Where can we find you?

1703
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,120
What are you working on that
you're allowed to divulge to us

1704
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:29,080
now?
I you can always find my stuff

1705
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:32,680
at vulture.com, that's, you
know, that's my employer.

1706
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:35,320
So that's really kind of where
my stuff is for New York

1707
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,930
Magazine.
And these days, well, I'm

1708
01:34:38,930 --> 01:34:44,010
working on an Oppenheimer piece
that that will be dropping soon,

1709
01:34:45,850 --> 01:34:50,250
hopefully at the time of writing
at the time of at the time that

1710
01:34:50,250 --> 01:34:53,610
we are talking, it has not been
filed yet.

1711
01:34:54,370 --> 01:34:57,450
Hopefully it's not killed before
this run set.

1712
01:34:58,730 --> 01:35:01,690
But you know I'm always, I'm
always, you know every week I

1713
01:35:01,690 --> 01:35:04,850
review something.
So we always got something in

1714
01:35:04,850 --> 01:35:06,210
the works.
I love it.

1715
01:35:06,530 --> 01:35:09,330
Is there like a is there a code
of ethics around saying that

1716
01:35:09,330 --> 01:35:11,730
your piece on Oppenheimer is
dropping sometime soon?

1717
01:35:11,770 --> 01:35:15,330
Like are we, are we allowed to
to lean into the double entendre

1718
01:35:15,330 --> 01:35:17,410
of that one or not so much with
Oppenheimer?

1719
01:35:20,650 --> 01:35:25,130
Yes, somehow I suspect my piece
will have less of an impact on

1720
01:35:25,130 --> 01:35:27,010
world history.
That is fair, that is.

1721
01:35:27,010 --> 01:35:29,570
Fair to assume.
Than the other one that dropped,

1722
01:35:29,570 --> 01:35:31,920
but yes.
Well Bilga, we cannot thank you

1723
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:33,480
enough for joining us today
everybody.

1724
01:35:33,480 --> 01:35:37,160
This has been Bilga Ibiri, one
of our favorite film critics and

1725
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:40,200
lovers of the movie face off
Brad.

1726
01:35:40,200 --> 01:35:44,760
We will be back next week as we
finish out our little miniseries

1727
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:48,160
on Christopher Nolan with his
2017 film Dunkirk.

1728
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:50,840
I'm pretty excited for that one.
Is that going to be a first time

1729
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:52,800
watch for you.
It sure will, Bob.

1730
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:54,160
No, that's exciting.
Cool.

1731
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:55,130
Yeah.
All right.

1732
01:35:55,130 --> 01:35:57,130
So join us next week for
Dunkirk.

1733
01:35:57,170 --> 01:36:00,090
But until then, I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad Gee.

1734
01:36:00,290 --> 01:36:01,530
And we'll see you next time.