The Passion of the Christ / Maker's Mark 46 Cask Strength Bourbon

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In 2004, director Mel
Gibson and star Jim

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Caviesal gave the world a
stirring vision of the last

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day of a prophet's life.
In

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2024, we've returned to a
familiar brand of weeded

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bourbon. The
film is The Passion of the

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Christ. The
whiskey is Maker's Mark 46

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cask strength. More
of you than both. This

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is The Film and Whiskey
Podcast.

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The
Film and Whiskey Podcast

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Welcome to the Film and
Whiskey Podcast, where each

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week we review a classic
movie and a glass of

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whiskey. I'm
Bob Book. I'm

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Brad G. And
man, oh man, Brad. Uff

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da. Did
we just watch a heavy

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movie or what? No
man, it's light and airy

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and just ends on ends on
a happy note. Does

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end on a happy note. What
could be wrong with this

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film, Bob? So
today, folks, we are

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checking out Mel Gibson's
2004 film, The Passion of

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the Christ. A
true box office juggernaut.

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This
thing, like, I don't know

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if you remember being
around this movie when it

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came out, Brad. This
was a weird time to be

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alive. Like,
there were people protesting

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the movie outside of movie
theaters. There

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were people handing out
flyers saying like, you're

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going to hell if you don't
see this movie. It's

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just a wild time to be a
moviegoer in suburban Ohio

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in 2004. I
think it's funny, though,

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that the two movies that
outgrossed it in the

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domestic box are Shrek 2
and Spider -Man 2. Just

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for some reason that the
fact that those two films

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are the ones that beat out
Jesus dying is pretty

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impressive. I
mean, Jesus beat Harry

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Potter, Bob. I
mean, Jesus always beats

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Harry Potter. He
beat the Incredibles? Yep.

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This is all in the text
somewhere, right? This

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is in the Bible. Oh,
obviously. Jesus

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beat the Incredibles. Yeah.
OK, so, Brad. This

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season, we are looking at
the highest grossing films

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from 1988 to 2019. We're
in 2004, just a little

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over the halfway point. And
like you said, we could

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have watched Shrek 2. We
could have watched Spider

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-Man 2. Here
was my thought process in

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ultimately suggesting that
we do Passion of the

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Christ. We
just did Shrek three weeks

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ago. I
don't like I just don't

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want to do sequels that
soon after doing the

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original. I
don't know that I would

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have much more to say
about Shrek. Oh,

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so what you're saying is
you just want to hold out

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a little while, give people
a little more thirst for

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Shrek before you review the
second one. Yeah.

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As we know, people have
thirst for Shrek. So

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the second option is Spider
-Man 2, which is probably

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the best superhero movie
ever made. And

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I figure that we're going
to do that one at some

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point. Like,
it's, you know, it's on

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the list. And
I figured, like, when are

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we ever going to be like,
hey, you know what we

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should really do? Passion
of the Christ. And

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I thought that, like, from
a cultural standpoint, from

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the Mel Gibson of it all,
this is probably going to

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be the best conversation
that we could have out of

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any of these three movies
this week. And

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so, you know, I'm sorry
that I made us watch a

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really heavy movie, but I
am looking forward to

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talking about it. Yeah,
I have no problem talking

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about this movie, Bob. It
has been a very, very long

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time since I've seen it.
But

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for me, this movie kind of
falls in the vein of a

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Schindler's List, where I
feel like at least once a

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decade, I should probably
sit down and watch it just

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like for my soul. Yeah,
although, you know, I've

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thought about Schindler's
List a lot in the wake of

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watching this movie. And
when we did our Schindler's

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List review, one thing that
I was really surprised by

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is how much humor that
movie actually has. Like,

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it is a very dark and
very depressing movie. But

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there are moments of levity
that Spielberg weaves

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throughout. And
this movie is utterly

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humorless. And
like, I think I'm OK with

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that because of the subject
matter here. But

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it's also it's really hard
to talk about this movie

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and not either feel bummed
out or risk bumming out

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our listeners or to make
it feel like we're mocking

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the movie by being a
little bit lighter with the

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way we talk about it. And
I don't mean to do that

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either. I
know that this is a very

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important movie to a lot
of people and we're dealing

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with perhaps the most
religious of all the

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religious movies we've ever
done. Like,

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this is a depiction of
Jesus himself. This

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is not like, you know,
silence was one thing.

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We've
already had depictions of

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Jesus. Yeah,
we had a depiction of like

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Jesus's feet in Ben Hur.
Ben

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Hur, come on. They
were holy feet. They

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sure were. So
yeah, I don't know, man.

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I'm
like, I don't want to walk

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on eggshells and I don't
want to tiptoe around the

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topics at hand here today.
But

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like, it is not lost on
me that there is there are

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many minefields adjacent to
this movie for a myriad of

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different reasons. Yeah,
I think at the end of the

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day, Bob, if I'm going to
be honest, I think a lot

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of people might skip out
on this episode because

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they are not as interested
in the religious overtones.

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And
I'm okay with that. I'm

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excited to talk about the
movie for what it is. I

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think it's interesting to
watch a movie like this

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with a critical lens on.
Mm

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hmm. And
I think that even if you

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come to this film as
someone who is not

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religiously inclined, I
think that there's a lot

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that could be taken away
from this film. Mm

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hmm. Oh,
I totally agree. And

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Brad, I have so many
thoughts and I'm kind of

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constructed like an outline
of where I think we should

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go with this episode. But
I'm going to set all that

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to the side for a minute
because in order to get to

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that, we have to get to
our first segment of the

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day, which we call Brad
explains. Brad's

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going to give us the movie
plot with only 60 seconds

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taken on the clock. So
let's go ahead and hear

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you take with this little
segment that we call Brad

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explains. Brad
explains is the part of

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the podcast where Brad
breaks down the plot of

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the movie that he has just
seen often for the first

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time. This
is not Brad's first time

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seeing the Passion of the
Christ, nor is it his

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first time recounting the
events therein. I

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don't know if this is
going to be like the

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shortest Brad explains of
all time or if you'll take

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the opportunity to deliver
a five point sermon here.

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So
let me just remind you,

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you have one minute on the
clock to break down the

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plot of the Passion of the
Christ and go. Dude,

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I could do a five point
sermon on the moment when

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Mary holds him as he's
taken the cross and he

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looks at her and says,
Behold, Mother, I'm making

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all things new. Dude,
actually, can we just skip

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Brad explains and just talk
about that moment for a

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minute? Yeah.
Oh, 100 percent, dude. All

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right. So
let's real quick. Bob

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explains the the Gospels
read them. The

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end. OK.
There's a moment in this

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movie that is far and away
for me, the most

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emotionally impactful moment
of the entire film. And

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like the whole thing is
like, Oh, man, this is

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very powerful and this is
very brutal and hard to

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watch. And
then you have the moment

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where he intersperses it
with an, you know, imagined

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flashback to a younger Mary
chasing after toddler Jesus

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when he falls over and
she's there to pick him up

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and kind of nurse his
wounds. And

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it's cut with her like
running down this alleyway

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with with his blood on
her, like chasing after

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him, hoping to hold him
and be able to nurse him

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back to health again. And
it's not going to happen,

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man. And
like his reaction and

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saying, look like basically
look at what I'm doing

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here. I
lost it, dude. I

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was a sobbing mess for the
next five minutes of this

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film. Yeah.
No, that's easily the

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pinnacle of the movie for
me because it's it's the

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crux of what he is doing.
Like

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at the very center of the
life of Christ and why he

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came is that phrase,
behold, I am making all

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things new. And
to see it portrayed so

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like the oh, man, we can
talk about Kavisle's overall

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performance. But
I think in that moment, he

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somehow manages to sound
like he is in incredible

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pain. And
yet there's a little bit

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of like almost glee in the
way he's saying it. Like,

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yeah, like more like
resolve, you know what I

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mean? Like
it's yeah. He

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has like this sense of
like, look what I'm doing,

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mom. Yeah.
Like I'm making all things

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new and there's this
hopefulness in his voice

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that completely belies what
is happening to him

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physically at that moment.
So

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I think when you watch
this movie, there's a

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couple of things that you
can't escape that kind of

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surround the movie. And
one of them I don't think

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is appropriate for right
now. We'll

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get to that in the
analysis portion when we're

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talking about kind of
cultural analysis. And

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that is the Mel Gibson of
it all. But

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the other thing is you
can't really separate this

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movie out from its use as
a tool in Christian

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culture. And
I don't even mean like an

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evangelism tool. Like,
I don't know that you show

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this movie to people to
try to convert them to

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Christianity. It
is perhaps, you know, we

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just did an episode a few
weeks ago where we talked

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about these faith based
films like by Christians

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for Christians, all the
ones that people hate like

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God's not dead. This
is perhaps the most like

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quote unquote by Christian
for Christian movie. I

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think I've ever seen
because it's it's certainly

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not trying to preach and
it's certainly not trying

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to convert. It
is at least on its face

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just trying to depict what
is in the text and a very

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small portion of it at
that. There

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are like little moments of
flashback where you get

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tiny, tiny pieces of Jesus'
teaching. But

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really, I think you can
watch this movie even as a

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nonbeliever and see in it
a very historically accurate

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depiction of what
crucifixion looked like. And

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also be you do get a
sense from the way the

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film portrays Jesus as
like, OK, I may not

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believe that this guy is
God or the Son of God or

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whatever. But
like he is certainly a

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holy figure with great
resolve who sticks to his

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morals to the end. And
I think that in those

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regards, this movie is a
huge success. But

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you also can't you can't
divorce the movie from the

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way that it's been used,
which is very much like to

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what we just talked about,
Brad. The

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I am making all things
new. That

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means a lot to you and me
because we're believers and

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like we understand like
what what does that line

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actually mean? I
think to someone who

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watches this movie as a
nonbeliever, there are

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moments that really work
and there are moments that

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are probably confounding.
And

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that's one of the
confounding moments because

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it's like I'm hearing Brad
G say that this guy has

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glee in his voice as he's
getting flagellated and

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beaten to death. And
that doesn't sit well with

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me. Do
you know what I mean? And

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I do kind of wonder how
effective is this movie to

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a nonbeliever? And
I think parts of it are

235
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,700
probably very effective and
parts of it are like you.

236
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,480
That's
gross. Yeah.

237
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,400
Yeah. 100 percent. There
is a lot of grossness

238
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,760
about this movie. And
I think that I was struck

239
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,920
more than anything else
watching it this time with

240
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:22,880
that sense of how much the
life and death of Christ

241
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,600
probably doesn't make a lot
of sense to the world at

242
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,120
large. That
he he doesn't always make

243
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,800
decisions that really make
sense that that somebody

244
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,600
would make if they were a
prophet trying to lead a

245
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,240
movement. And
you kind of see that on

246
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,480
full display here. Like
he doesn't answer questions

247
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:43,920
when he probably should.
And

248
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,980
when he does answer
questions, you know, to

249
00:12:45,980 --> 00:12:50,040
pilot and to the the
Sanhedrin and the other

250
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,700
people who are judging him.
When

251
00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:54,340
he does answer questions,
he rarely answers them in

252
00:12:54,340 --> 00:12:56,480
a way that is very
flattering to him or will

253
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,600
get him out of trouble.
And

254
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,580
I think that it would be
very easy to watch this

255
00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:05,780
and be like, I don't
understand any of his

256
00:13:05,780 --> 00:13:08,140
motivations here. Mm
hmm. Yeah.

257
00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:12,460
And I think like that's a
it's true to the text, but

258
00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:14,440
the problem is like the
text has a whole lot of

259
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,680
context to go with it.
Like

260
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:17,940
there's a thousand other
pages of Bible that help

261
00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:21,080
that help you understand
why Jesus answers. So

262
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,620
much Bible that helps you
understand why Jesus does

263
00:13:24,620 --> 00:13:27,360
or doesn't answer the way
he does in the context of

264
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,380
those questions. Whereas
in the movie, I found

265
00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:33,160
myself Brad for the first
25, 30 ish minutes of the

266
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,900
movie really struggling to
get into it because I was

267
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:38,120
trying to watch it. Not
just through an analytical

268
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,480
lens, but through the lens
of does this movie work if

269
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,200
I'm not a Christian and
not like anti Christian,

270
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,940
but just. It
makes sense to me because

271
00:13:47,940 --> 00:13:50,740
I know the text so well,
the text that is based on

272
00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:54,720
does it make sense as a
standalone movie. And

273
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,460
I think that I think it
struggles in a lot of

274
00:13:58,460 --> 00:14:00,240
places. There
are moments where it's

275
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,240
really viscerally effective.
And

276
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,360
if I knew nothing about
the story of Jesus other

277
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,160
than he is a guy who died
on the cross, I think the

278
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,180
movie can be really
effective there. But

279
00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:12,780
some of the some of those
early going moments where

280
00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:16,620
you see like, you know,
Jesus before the Sanhedrin

281
00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:18,160
and Jesus talking to Herod.
And

282
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,660
it's like there's just not
quite enough understanding

283
00:14:22,660 --> 00:14:26,260
of who Jesus is outside of
this one night we're

284
00:14:26,260 --> 00:14:29,500
watching to understand why
he's answering the way he

285
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:30,800
does. What
does he think of these

286
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,720
people? And
I think that like it's not

287
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,720
until we get into kind of
the meat of the story that

288
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,720
the movie really starts
working. I

289
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,640
don't know if I can view
it the same way, Bob. At

290
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,760
the end of the day, I
think we have to take

291
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:54,460
Gibson's choices as like
very intentional in the

292
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:58,120
sense that he is not
making this for people who

293
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,700
don't know the background.
And

294
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:03,280
I think that one of the
things I appreciate most

295
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,020
about this film is that he
skips over so much. Like

296
00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:13,400
he gives you the absolute
bare minimum necessary for

297
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,660
the viewer of this movie
to have the maximum impact

298
00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:20,720
of what happened on the
cross. And

299
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,200
it's not, you know, I
don't know if this is good

300
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,080
or bad, but it's not meant
for people who don't

301
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,300
believe in Jesus. And
so if you are somebody who

302
00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:30,940
is not familiar with the
source material, I agree.

303
00:15:30,940 --> 00:15:32,880
Like
it's going to be tough for

304
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,500
you to understand all of
the different elements that

305
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:40,820
are going on here. And
I don't think Gibson, the

306
00:15:40,820 --> 00:15:44,980
director really cares. Well,
no, and like nor is it a

307
00:15:44,980 --> 00:15:47,520
requirement that a movie be
all things to all people

308
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,640
like that. It's
a very common refrain. It's

309
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,880
not one that I always
agree with, but like, you

310
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,160
know, I've had many
conversations with my wife

311
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,020
about the movie Barbie that
came out last year. And

312
00:15:58,020 --> 00:16:01,340
at the end of the day,
that movie is not for me.

313
00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:03,220
It
didn't work for me very

314
00:16:03,220 --> 00:16:06,220
well, but it's also like
I'm not the target audience

315
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:08,200
of the film Barbie. And
I have to acknowledge that

316
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,920
who cares what I think
about it to some extent,

317
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,440
you know, I guess what I'm
saying, Brad, is the

318
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,020
passion of the Christ is
Mel Gibson's Barbie. That's

319
00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:19,720
that's the quote of today.
That's

320
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,800
a heck of a statement,
Bob. There's

321
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,000
a movie that I have talked
about many, many times on

322
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,620
this show, and it's called
The Passion of Joan of

323
00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:30,520
Arc. It's
a silent movie from the

324
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,320
late 1920s. It
is one of the 10 best

325
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,640
movies I've ever seen in
my life. And

326
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,900
it's not a coincidence that
this movie is titled the

327
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,400
same way as The Passion of
Joan of Arc. And

328
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,440
that movie is literally
just a depiction of Joan

329
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,740
of Arc's trial and
execution. And

330
00:16:45,740 --> 00:16:49,320
they got almost all the
dialogue in that movie from

331
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,560
the actual transcripts that
were written down in like

332
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,460
the 1200s or whenever it
was Joan of Arc was alive.

333
00:16:56,219 --> 00:16:58,300
And
you don't really know much

334
00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:00,280
about Joan outside of this
trial. They

335
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,780
are accusing her of
witchcraft. They're

336
00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:03,960
asking her if she thinks
that she's the daughter of

337
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,000
God and she's saying yes.
And

338
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,680
then they're like, you're a
heretic. And

339
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,780
on the page, it's like she
kind of does sound like a

340
00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:11,680
heretic. And
then they kill her and

341
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,980
you're like, oh, OK, like
even if she is a heretic,

342
00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:17,060
I don't know how you feel
about this whole burning

343
00:17:17,060 --> 00:17:18,800
people at the stake thing.
And

344
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,119
this movie is very similar
to that where like when

345
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,160
Jesus is before that
tribunal and they're asking

346
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,079
him, are you calling
yourself a king? And

347
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,440
he says, yes. Oh,
I understand why they're

348
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,820
upset by this. And
even though you and I know

349
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:35,420
the context of why they're
upset with Jesus goes way

350
00:17:35,420 --> 00:17:39,260
beyond that. The
depiction of what they do

351
00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:43,800
in retaliation against Jesus
is the emotional heart of

352
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,520
the movie. And
this act justified based on

353
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,260
what they thought he was
guilty of. And

354
00:17:51,268 --> 00:17:53,060
I think that it makes such
a great. I

355
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:54,480
don't mean to step on my
let's make it a double

356
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,080
here, but that's that's
what it's going to be. It

357
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,220
makes such a great pairing
with Joan of Arc because

358
00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:02,640
even apart from all the
context of the Bible, you

359
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,700
can watch this movie in a
vacuum and still be

360
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:09,520
compelled by the injustice
carried out against this

361
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,180
man. Yeah,
100 percent. I

362
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:18,080
found myself mostly drawn
in by all of the reactions

363
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,500
of the secondary characters
to what was going on. And

364
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:24,920
I think that's kind of the
heart of the movie, right?

365
00:18:25,140 --> 00:18:27,820
Is
a, we see Jesus going

366
00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:33,120
through this brutal torture
for most of the movie. But

367
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,480
the the reflection points
where you get to feel the

368
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,160
emotional depth of that
come from, you know, the

369
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,660
mother of Jesus, Mary, from
Mary Magdalene, from John,

370
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,760
from Peter, from all of
the people who have been

371
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,160
with him, who love him so
deeply. And

372
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,520
I think that as you watch
those secondary characters

373
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,540
and the performances, I
found myself just completely

374
00:18:59,540 --> 00:19:01,800
entranced by them,
especially throughout the

375
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,520
film. Yeah,
I think maybe it's time

376
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,000
for us to kind of segue
out of how the story

377
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,860
itself is compelling to you
and me as as people who

378
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:12,640
are Christians and talk
about the movie making. So

379
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,760
like as a movie, again,
this is really hard. It's

380
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,580
hard to divorce from from
our own personal attachment

381
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:21,580
to the story and from the
filmmaker himself. But

382
00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:25,240
as a movie, let's kind of
start talking about what we

383
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:26,860
have here. And
I think let's dive into

384
00:19:26,860 --> 00:19:29,540
the performances. You're
talking about the supporting

385
00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:31,620
characters that might be a
better place to start than

386
00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:34,520
with Jim Caviesal. And
if I could talk about one

387
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,720
supporting person in this
movie, it would be Maya

388
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:42,380
Morgenstern as Mary, because
she is like revelatory in

389
00:19:42,380 --> 00:19:45,300
this movie. It
is unbelievable how good

390
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:48,440
she is in this film, not
nominated for anything. She

391
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,640
should have been because it
is a heartbreaking

392
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,600
performance. Yeah,
dude, she's she's so good,

393
00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,280
man. She
just has a depth of wisdom

394
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:07,180
and sadness behind her eyes
that just never leave. I

395
00:20:07,180 --> 00:20:10,640
found myself completely
glued to the screen

396
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,880
whenever she was on it.
Yeah,

397
00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:16,900
I'm with you, man. She
turns in what might be the

398
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:19,540
best performance of the
film. Yeah,

399
00:20:19,580 --> 00:20:21,060
I mean, there's a couple
other people that I think

400
00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:22,720
are really good. The
guy who plays John is

401
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,220
good. I
think that Francesco DeVito

402
00:20:25,220 --> 00:20:27,000
as Peter is really good.
Monica

403
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,980
Bellucci is pretty good as
Mary Magdalene. She's

404
00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:32,200
probably the most famous
person in this movie at

405
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,020
the time that it comes
out. But

406
00:20:34,020 --> 00:20:37,920
it's really Mary. Like
she is the one that stands

407
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,040
out to me. If
there was one other person

408
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,840
that I think is worth
mentioning in a really

409
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,460
small role, it's the guy
who plays Simon of Cyrene.

410
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,960
His
name is Jareth or Yareth

411
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,600
Mertz. The
guy that helps Jesus carry

412
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,080
his cross. He's
so good. He's

413
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,860
incredible. And
it's pretty obvious that

414
00:20:58,860 --> 00:21:02,680
the script once like
Pontius Pilate and Pontius

415
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,240
Pilate's wife to be these
sympathetic figures, which

416
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,400
they kind of are. But
like, you know, if there's

417
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,060
one thing that I really
didn't like about the

418
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:11,480
script, it's that it
sometimes feels like it

419
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,900
goes overboard to make some
characters sympathetic and

420
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:18,520
then also overboard to make
other characters completely

421
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,370
unsympathetic. And
I wish that it that Clint

422
00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:23,650
Eastwood syndrome. Yeah,
I wish that it left a

423
00:21:23,650 --> 00:21:26,470
little bit more up to the
audience as to who they

424
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:28,490
want to place blame on
because it's very much like

425
00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:31,590
the high priests are wrong
and Pontius Pilate is

426
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:34,630
totally in the clear. And
I'm like, is he like this

427
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:37,870
doesn't seem. And
Harriet is super gay. Yeah,

428
00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:42,830
very much according to Mel
Gibson. Yeah,

429
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:47,170
I think that I really like
the performance by Pontius

430
00:21:47,170 --> 00:21:50,870
Pilate. I
think that whoever the

431
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:54,650
actor is who portrays him
a has to be very Eastern

432
00:21:54,650 --> 00:21:56,690
European. Oh,
yeah, he's a Bulgarian. I'm

433
00:21:56,690 --> 00:22:00,530
looking at him now. His
name is Christo Nalmof

434
00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:04,170
Shopov. Yeah,
I was going to say I grew

435
00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:07,010
up in Cleveland. I've
been around lots of Eastern

436
00:22:07,010 --> 00:22:10,050
Europeans and I was like,
that man is not from

437
00:22:10,050 --> 00:22:17,030
Italy. But
I think he gives a really,

438
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:19,770
really solid performance.
And

439
00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:25,390
anytime I felt like he was
on screen, I feel like he

440
00:22:25,390 --> 00:22:29,630
embodies what you read in
scriptures. Like

441
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:33,410
if you look at the
original text, the way he

442
00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:36,670
delivers that line about
truth, like what is true?

443
00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:38,570
And
even the little side

444
00:22:38,570 --> 00:22:40,830
conversation he has with
his wife about it about

445
00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:43,850
like, would you even know
truth if you saw it? Like

446
00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:49,210
even those tiny extra
biblical moments, I think

447
00:22:49,210 --> 00:22:52,990
give flesh to the rest of
the movie. All

448
00:22:52,990 --> 00:22:55,070
right, man, let's talk
about Jim Caviesal as

449
00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:58,690
Jesus. And
this is a performance that

450
00:22:58,690 --> 00:23:03,910
has been, you know, praised
and criticized and parodied

451
00:23:03,910 --> 00:23:07,090
and kind of hasn't been
talked about in the 20

452
00:23:07,090 --> 00:23:09,810
years since. And
especially because Jim

453
00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:12,750
Caviesal has now become
like he was a TV actor

454
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:15,330
for a while and now he's
making only Christian

455
00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:17,370
movies. He
got a lot of flack for

456
00:23:17,370 --> 00:23:20,130
the movie he made last
year, Sound of Freedom. And

457
00:23:20,130 --> 00:23:22,570
again, like it's it's hard
to separate out the content

458
00:23:22,570 --> 00:23:25,470
of this movie from things
that are adjacent to it.

459
00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:27,530
But
I really think Jim Caviesal

460
00:23:27,530 --> 00:23:29,670
is freaking fantastic in
this movie. And

461
00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:33,550
for me, the comparison
point is Leo in the

462
00:23:33,550 --> 00:23:37,970
Revenant. Because
that is a role that Leo

463
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:41,270
has been absolutely
pilloried for in the years

464
00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:44,450
since as like he just
rolled on the ground and

465
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:46,850
writhed around and grunted
for two hours because he

466
00:23:46,850 --> 00:23:49,190
wanted an Oscar so badly.
And

467
00:23:49,198 --> 00:23:51,090
I've always defended Leo in
that movie. But

468
00:23:51,090 --> 00:23:53,490
I think in light of seeing
Caviesal here, I'm like,

469
00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:56,850
oh, no, this is how you
do a performance where

470
00:23:56,850 --> 00:24:00,230
you're just being tortured
for two hours. Like

471
00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:03,410
it's a very physically
demanding performance. In

472
00:24:03,410 --> 00:24:05,530
addition to the fact that
he's delivering all of his

473
00:24:05,530 --> 00:24:08,630
lines in another language
that is a dead language

474
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:11,090
now. I
have no complaints. I

475
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:12,810
think Caviesal is really
good. I

476
00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:17,950
do hate the shampooed
feather haired Jesus we get

477
00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:21,150
in some scenes, but like
that's more of a Mel

478
00:24:21,150 --> 00:24:24,030
Gibson decision than it is
a Caviesal one. Yeah,

479
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:28,370
100 percent. Like
who's the artist that that

480
00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:31,830
did the the super famous
Jesus painting? Oh,

481
00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:33,170
like knocking on the door.
I

482
00:24:33,170 --> 00:24:37,690
can't remember. Yeah.
So that is the Jesus that

483
00:24:37,690 --> 00:24:41,750
we get here. Right.
Man, let me let me look

484
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:46,130
it up really quick. Yeah,
it's the the Warner Salmons

485
00:24:46,130 --> 00:24:49,710
head of Christ from 1940.
Like

486
00:24:49,710 --> 00:24:53,470
that's the Jesus that we
have here. And

487
00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:55,450
I think there's a lot of
people who would probably

488
00:24:55,450 --> 00:24:58,610
complain about that. We
need a more Jewish Jesus.

489
00:24:59,230 --> 00:25:00,610
I
think at the end of the

490
00:25:00,610 --> 00:25:04,810
day, this is another
example of this is a

491
00:25:04,810 --> 00:25:09,210
Catholic movie. And
we haven't talked about it

492
00:25:09,210 --> 00:25:14,590
yet, but this film is like
if you're in Christianity

493
00:25:14,590 --> 00:25:17,670
enough, you'll recognize
this is like a wildly

494
00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:22,750
Catholic movie with so many
Catholic references. And

495
00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:27,010
I think in the midst of
all that, I love Jim

496
00:25:27,010 --> 00:25:30,870
Caviesal. The
only maybe complaint I have

497
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:34,570
about him is that I wish
and this is more script

498
00:25:34,570 --> 00:25:37,490
than anything else. I
wish there were a few more

499
00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:42,210
moments of Jesus being
lighthearted and like loving

500
00:25:42,210 --> 00:25:47,850
in the flashbacks. You
know, like the the tone of

501
00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:51,770
the movie is somber
throughout. And

502
00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:54,550
I kind of wish that in a
few of the flashbacks, we

503
00:25:54,550 --> 00:26:00,650
got a more jovial, like
the wild abandon with which

504
00:26:00,650 --> 00:26:03,390
Jesus loved his disciples
and the people he was

505
00:26:03,390 --> 00:26:06,010
ministering to. Because
I think that would help

506
00:26:06,010 --> 00:26:10,750
illustrate the depth that
they have now sunk to the

507
00:26:10,750 --> 00:26:13,830
Jewish people in their
torture of him. On

508
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:16,590
the opposite side of that
from you, but I think for

509
00:26:16,590 --> 00:26:19,150
the same reason, I think
the amount of flashbacks

510
00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:22,510
used in this movie is the
wrong number. And

511
00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:25,330
either you need to have
more flashbacks or no

512
00:26:25,330 --> 00:26:27,690
flashbacks. And
I kind of feel like the

513
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:29,970
movie would have been my
interpretation was the movie

514
00:26:29,970 --> 00:26:32,510
would have been better with
almost no flashbacks, like

515
00:26:32,510 --> 00:26:36,430
no outside context. At
all, just the, you know,

516
00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:39,550
the Garden of Gethsemane,
the trial and the

517
00:26:39,550 --> 00:26:42,110
crucifixion. And
because I feel like it

518
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:44,710
really undercuts both the
rhythm of the movie and

519
00:26:44,710 --> 00:26:46,770
like the emotional
effectiveness most of the

520
00:26:46,770 --> 00:26:49,470
time when they cut away.
Mary

521
00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:52,770
Magdalene's cut away,
unnecessary. I

522
00:26:52,770 --> 00:26:55,410
know that it like it is
related to what she's

523
00:26:55,410 --> 00:26:57,630
seeing happen to Jesus
right now, but we don't

524
00:26:57,630 --> 00:27:01,090
actually need as the
audience to understand how

525
00:27:01,090 --> 00:27:03,910
Mary Magdalene was rescued
out of adultery and

526
00:27:03,910 --> 00:27:06,550
everything like that. Like,
like I just wish that we

527
00:27:06,550 --> 00:27:10,070
were plunged into this
movie and it did not let

528
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:12,650
up for two hours. And
I know that that's probably

529
00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:15,930
like the idea of that is
probably unbearable to a

530
00:27:15,930 --> 00:27:18,110
lot of people because it
is such an intense movie.

531
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:20,110
But
I'm with you, man, either

532
00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:22,810
you either have to do more
or you have to do less,

533
00:27:22,910 --> 00:27:25,250
but there's something off
with the calculus of the

534
00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:28,350
random cutaways here. Yeah,
I see. I

535
00:27:28,350 --> 00:27:30,850
don't know if I'm quite
there with it. I

536
00:27:30,850 --> 00:27:32,610
think that they have about
the right amount of

537
00:27:32,610 --> 00:27:34,850
cutaways to keep you
focused on the action

538
00:27:34,850 --> 00:27:38,370
without losing the pacing.
I

539
00:27:38,370 --> 00:27:41,870
think for me, I think
within like, don't add or

540
00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:45,890
delete any scenes just
within what you had filmed,

541
00:27:46,110 --> 00:27:49,170
the timing of it. Give
me a little more of a

542
00:27:49,170 --> 00:27:53,630
happy jovial loving Jesus
that is like the whole

543
00:27:53,630 --> 00:27:56,470
reason he came. I
mean, you do get the

544
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:59,550
revelation that Jesus
invented the table and

545
00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:02,890
chairs, apparently. That
is the one cutaway that

546
00:28:02,890 --> 00:28:05,630
they could have cut. She
goes, this will never catch

547
00:28:05,630 --> 00:28:09,610
on. That
is hands down. The

548
00:28:09,610 --> 00:28:11,370
weirdest part of the movie.
Like

549
00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:12,930
why? I
don't know if it's the

550
00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:15,110
weirdest, but there's some
weird stuff in this movie

551
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:17,270
that we need to get to
here. Well,

552
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:20,270
weirdest in sense of tone.
Like

553
00:28:20,270 --> 00:28:24,070
that doesn't fit with any
of the rest of the film

554
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:28,650
and not necessarily the
silly Jesus. I'm

555
00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:32,590
fine with silly Jesus. It's
the whole wink at the

556
00:28:32,590 --> 00:28:35,470
camera. Oh,
this stupid table never

557
00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:38,090
catch on. Yeah,
man, I'm with you on that.

558
00:28:38,410 --> 00:28:39,690
I
do want to talk before we

559
00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:41,870
go to break about the
other weird stuff, which is

560
00:28:41,870 --> 00:28:45,490
the depiction of Satan in
this movie. And

561
00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:48,810
I don't know if this is a
controversial take, Brad,

562
00:28:48,910 --> 00:28:52,090
because we are talking
about a cosmic battle of

563
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:56,950
good versus evil represented
in the crucifixion. There's

564
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:59,230
too much Satan in this
movie. Like

565
00:28:59,230 --> 00:29:03,130
we needed like one, maybe
two brief glimpses of the

566
00:29:03,130 --> 00:29:07,250
satanic figure amongst the
people for the point to be

567
00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:09,410
made. By
the time that Satan shows

568
00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:14,570
up with the satanic midget
baby and then you get the

569
00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:18,130
like nine inch nails
looking music video Satan

570
00:29:18,130 --> 00:29:21,170
at the end screaming at
the camera. It's

571
00:29:21,170 --> 00:29:23,690
just like it has not aged
well. It

572
00:29:23,690 --> 00:29:26,070
was not a good directorial
decision. I

573
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:28,530
wish there was less Satan
in this movie. I

574
00:29:28,530 --> 00:29:29,990
don't think it's terrible.
I

575
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:36,290
think that if anything for
me, as someone who believes

576
00:29:36,290 --> 00:29:40,970
deeply in the spiritual
realm, I think that it is

577
00:29:40,970 --> 00:29:46,970
a really insightful
depiction into the wild

578
00:29:46,970 --> 00:29:49,870
weirdness with which the
spiritual realm operates.

579
00:29:51,250 --> 00:29:53,270
And
if anything for me, it

580
00:29:53,270 --> 00:29:58,430
made it more effective. So
I was 100 % on board for

581
00:29:58,430 --> 00:30:02,390
all of the Satan scenes in
the sense that I think

582
00:30:02,390 --> 00:30:05,750
that it added to the film.
Oh

583
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:07,470
man. All
right, Brad. Well,

584
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:09,770
with that said, I'm going
to make an even weirder

585
00:30:09,770 --> 00:30:13,330
transition because it feels
kind of wrong to pair this

586
00:30:13,330 --> 00:30:15,370
movie up with the whiskey.
But

587
00:30:15,370 --> 00:30:17,670
that's what we do. We
watch movies and we drink

588
00:30:17,670 --> 00:30:20,050
whiskey. So
it's time for us to review

589
00:30:20,050 --> 00:30:22,890
some Makers Mark 46. What
do you say? I

590
00:30:22,890 --> 00:30:24,930
mean, this is like a
Catholic film and the

591
00:30:24,930 --> 00:30:27,830
Catholics, if nothing else,
are all about drinking.

592
00:30:29,050 --> 00:30:36,750
Let's
get to it, man. All

593
00:30:36,750 --> 00:30:39,090
right. So
today we are trying Makers

594
00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:42,950
Mark 46 cask strength. Now,
Brad, I feel like we're

595
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:46,270
finally rounding out the
Avengers lineup of Makers

596
00:30:46,270 --> 00:30:48,630
Mark products because we've
tried Makers Mark. I

597
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:51,470
think, wait, have we tried
regular Makers Mark? I

598
00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:54,130
was about to say, Bob, I
do not think we have. Oh

599
00:30:54,130 --> 00:30:56,070
man. Well,
then my analogy immediately

600
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:58,990
fell apart. We
haven't even reviewed

601
00:30:58,990 --> 00:31:01,470
Captain America. Yeah,
I know. We're

602
00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:04,170
just focusing on Black
Widow and Hawkeye here and

603
00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:07,210
calling it the Avengers.
Okay,

604
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:11,070
so we have tried Makers
Cask Strength. We

605
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:16,150
have tried Makers 46. We
have not done Makers Mark,

606
00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:20,470
but now we're reviewing
Makers 46 cask strength. So

607
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:22,450
we've basically tried
everything except the

608
00:31:22,450 --> 00:31:24,230
flagship product. I
think we need to remedy

609
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:26,330
that pretty soon here,
Brad. Yeah,

610
00:31:26,370 --> 00:31:29,430
I was going to say, I
feel like really early in

611
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:31,630
the show's history, we
tried a Makers Mark

612
00:31:31,630 --> 00:31:33,730
product. It
might have been 46. It

613
00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:35,710
was, yeah, that was like
one of our first episodes.

614
00:31:36,270 --> 00:31:38,650
Yeah,
and then we took like six

615
00:31:38,650 --> 00:31:43,530
seasons off and didn't
drink any Makers Mark. And

616
00:31:43,530 --> 00:31:47,090
since then, we've tried a
few and I've been a fan

617
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:50,510
of just about everything
we've had. Yeah,

618
00:31:50,590 --> 00:31:52,130
me too. And
this is kind of the

619
00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:55,090
original, you know, quote
unquote original weeded

620
00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:58,090
bourbon. This
is by far the most popular

621
00:31:58,090 --> 00:32:01,010
weeded bourbon product on
the market. Definitely

622
00:32:01,010 --> 00:32:03,290
does more sales than the
wellers that you hear

623
00:32:03,290 --> 00:32:05,930
about. It's
not as bro -y. It's

624
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:09,370
not as sexy of a name as
weller is, but Makers Mark

625
00:32:09,370 --> 00:32:12,490
moves a ton of units. And
so when they came out with

626
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:15,430
Makers 46, it was a really
interesting addition to the

627
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:19,150
Makers Mark lineup. This
is a French oak stave

628
00:32:19,150 --> 00:32:21,230
finished bourbon. It
was one of the first ones

629
00:32:21,230 --> 00:32:24,030
to do this sort of stave
finish thing. And

630
00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:25,970
they called it 46 because
I think it was like their

631
00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:29,430
46th experiment or the 46th
stave. So

632
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:31,850
they just ran with it. And
this is the cask strength

633
00:32:31,850 --> 00:32:34,230
version of that. The
original one comes in at

634
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:37,150
around 90 proof, Brad. It's
a pretty low proof whiskey.

635
00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:39,490
You
and I actually revisited it

636
00:32:39,490 --> 00:32:43,250
recently for an episode for
our Patreon. And

637
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:45,310
we really liked that Makers
46. So

638
00:32:45,310 --> 00:32:47,970
I'm pretty pumped to dive
into the cask strength

639
00:32:47,970 --> 00:32:50,810
version here. This
sample was given to us by

640
00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:53,450
friend of show Wes, who
has been just bank rolling

641
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:55,570
us through season eight,
Brad. Let's

642
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:58,930
go Wes. This
one comes in at 109 .6

643
00:32:58,930 --> 00:33:01,970
proof. Brad,
you and I are drinking

644
00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:05,170
this live together, which
never happens. You

645
00:33:05,170 --> 00:33:08,450
usually come in having
already drank it. So

646
00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:10,370
you better, you better
bring it today, man,

647
00:33:10,550 --> 00:33:13,030
because you have no
prepared notes. I

648
00:33:13,030 --> 00:33:15,110
don't. I
have nothing to draw upon,

649
00:33:15,390 --> 00:33:19,470
but the faculties that God
has given me. And

650
00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:22,230
the 600 whiskies we've
already tried on this

651
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:24,010
podcast. Yeah,
you know, a little bit of

652
00:33:24,010 --> 00:33:26,050
experience. All
right, man, let's dive in.

653
00:33:26,350 --> 00:33:27,490
What
are you picking up on the

654
00:33:27,490 --> 00:33:30,850
nose of Makers 46 cask
strength? The

655
00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:34,270
first thing that jumps out
at me is the cherry. That

656
00:33:34,270 --> 00:33:38,630
just there is no masking
that this is a weeded, a

657
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:42,110
well -weeded bourbon. I
think that there is a lot

658
00:33:42,110 --> 00:33:46,090
of peanuts on this. I
think that the oakiness

659
00:33:46,090 --> 00:33:48,990
does start to come through.
Like

660
00:33:48,990 --> 00:33:52,590
you definitely notice those
oak staves. But

661
00:33:52,598 --> 00:33:56,590
other than that, man, this
is just like cherry and

662
00:33:56,590 --> 00:34:01,510
caramel and vanilla and
peanuts and just all sorts

663
00:34:01,510 --> 00:34:04,830
of really pleasant bourbon
notes. Yeah,

664
00:34:04,830 --> 00:34:07,050
I'm totally with you. It's
a really nice kind of

665
00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:10,889
black cherry, almost like a
black cherry ice cream. And

666
00:34:10,889 --> 00:34:12,929
then a little bit of that
nuttiness. I'm

667
00:34:12,929 --> 00:34:14,949
picking up on that. There's
some it's almost like a

668
00:34:14,949 --> 00:34:17,949
waxy, the waxy smell of
peanuts. So

669
00:34:17,949 --> 00:34:19,510
I don't know if I could
compare this to anything,

670
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:22,489
Brad. It's
like this is the PB and J

671
00:34:22,489 --> 00:34:25,469
of whiskey. This
is the uncrustables of

672
00:34:25,469 --> 00:34:27,610
whiskies. I
think the oak is coming

673
00:34:27,610 --> 00:34:30,710
through, not in a sort of
like overly oaked or sour

674
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:33,210
way the way it's been on
some of these well aged

675
00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:35,230
products we've had recently.
It's

676
00:34:35,230 --> 00:34:37,750
more of a sawdusty. And
I really, really like that

677
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:40,810
because it gets me back
into my great like Noah's

678
00:34:40,810 --> 00:34:44,050
Mill wheelhouse. So
I'm going to give this an

679
00:34:44,050 --> 00:34:45,550
eight and a half on the
nose, Brad. I

680
00:34:45,550 --> 00:34:48,250
like this a lot. Yeah,
I think I'm sitting at an

681
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:52,230
eight on the nose. Man,
as I'm getting into the

682
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:57,830
palette here, Bob, this is
a delicious whiskey. It

683
00:34:57,830 --> 00:35:05,150
has like a little bit of
like a cherry capri sun

684
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:09,430
taste to it. Like
it's not thick enough to

685
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:13,390
be a cherry syrup, but I
don't know. This

686
00:35:13,390 --> 00:35:16,410
is the most American
sounding review. We've

687
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:19,490
compared it to uncrustables
and capri sun so far.

688
00:35:20,110 --> 00:35:20,850
That's
the truth. We

689
00:35:20,850 --> 00:35:22,970
have the palette of five
year olds. My

690
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:27,230
daughter has started soccer
at the age of three and

691
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:32,070
it is adorable to watch 15
little girls run around and

692
00:35:32,070 --> 00:35:34,370
kick a soccer ball.
Absolutely

693
00:35:34,370 --> 00:35:36,350
love it. But
snack time is her favorite

694
00:35:36,350 --> 00:35:40,430
part of the experience. And
I had forgotten how capri

695
00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:44,930
suns are like a staple of
soccer snacks. And

696
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:48,150
so at least when I was
growing up, the flavors

697
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:54,350
were pretty much ocean
breeze and wild cherry. And

698
00:35:54,350 --> 00:35:56,670
so I think that might be
why it's on my brain.

699
00:35:56,830 --> 00:35:59,990
Yeah.
But this has that wild

700
00:35:59,990 --> 00:36:04,670
cherry capri sun vibe that
I really like. I

701
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:07,170
think the nuttiness sticks
around. The

702
00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:10,710
vanilla is really prominent
on the palette more so

703
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:13,910
than on the nose. Bob,
this is just a really,

704
00:36:14,170 --> 00:36:17,350
really tasty whiskey. I'll
come up a little bit from

705
00:36:17,350 --> 00:36:18,970
the nose and give it an
eight and a half on the

706
00:36:18,970 --> 00:36:20,810
palette. Yeah,
I think I'm actually going

707
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:23,330
to go down a little bit
on my palette score, Brad.

708
00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:25,530
This
is really good and very

709
00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:28,490
solid. But
if I could nitpick it a

710
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:31,610
little bit, I think that
that oak finish is it

711
00:36:31,610 --> 00:36:34,050
tastes more like that
toasted oak, really bitter

712
00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:36,850
kind of oak that we get
sometimes. And

713
00:36:36,850 --> 00:36:39,910
it's nice to a point and
then you kick it to the

714
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:42,470
back of your palette and
it just kind of comes in

715
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:44,970
at first as like a heavy
char. But

716
00:36:44,970 --> 00:36:46,710
then you realize it's not
actually char. It's

717
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:50,930
like a it's like vegetal
almost. It's

718
00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:54,490
pretty tannic almost, I
would call it. And

719
00:36:54,490 --> 00:36:57,550
I think that because of
that, it almost kind of

720
00:36:57,550 --> 00:37:00,610
reminds me of some like
dark red wine finished

721
00:37:00,610 --> 00:37:02,690
whiskies we've had like a
Pinot Noir finish or

722
00:37:02,690 --> 00:37:04,090
something. There's
there's a little bit of

723
00:37:04,090 --> 00:37:07,330
grapiness to this to go
along with that cherry. I

724
00:37:07,330 --> 00:37:11,410
like it, but it just
struck a small bitter note

725
00:37:11,410 --> 00:37:13,690
at the end that kind of
ruined the rest of it for

726
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:14,770
me. So
I'm going to be at a

727
00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:18,010
seven and a half on
palette and then on finish.

728
00:37:18,190 --> 00:37:19,170
I'm
kind of in the same spot.

729
00:37:19,390 --> 00:37:21,150
I
think second and third sip.

730
00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:22,490
It
definitely improves a little

731
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:25,210
bit, but that note doesn't
really go away. And

732
00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:27,950
the last note that I'm
left with is the nice

733
00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:32,410
softness of the wheat on
this coupled with a kind

734
00:37:32,410 --> 00:37:35,450
of bitter oak. And
it's mostly good, but

735
00:37:35,450 --> 00:37:37,110
there's just something there
that's keeping it from

736
00:37:37,110 --> 00:37:38,830
being great. So
I'm going to go seven and

737
00:37:38,830 --> 00:37:41,830
a half again. Yeah,
I think for me, the finish

738
00:37:41,830 --> 00:37:43,970
is where I kind of drop
off. I

739
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:49,090
think that you start to
lose the flavors that made

740
00:37:49,090 --> 00:37:53,250
this whiskey really solid
on the finish. It's

741
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:55,970
still good. There's
still a nice pleasant

742
00:37:55,970 --> 00:38:00,390
cherry palette that finishes
through, but it definitely

743
00:38:00,390 --> 00:38:02,250
disappears into the oak a
little bit. I'll

744
00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:04,570
give it a seven and a
half on the finish. I

745
00:38:04,570 --> 00:38:06,450
think I'll give it a seven
and a half on the balance

746
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:09,410
as well. The
movement from nose to

747
00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:15,330
palette to finish is good,
but not super complex. And

748
00:38:15,330 --> 00:38:19,110
it tails off just enough
that I think it's a pretty

749
00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:23,330
well balanced whiskey, but
nothing outstanding. Yeah,

750
00:38:23,350 --> 00:38:24,530
I'm in the same spot, man.
I'm

751
00:38:24,530 --> 00:38:26,230
going to give it a seven.
I'll

752
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:29,410
just give it a seven on
the balance because I think

753
00:38:29,410 --> 00:38:32,590
that the more interesting
conversation here is the

754
00:38:32,590 --> 00:38:34,690
price, the value on this.
Brad,

755
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:37,990
I'm seeing this online at
around $60. I

756
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:41,030
like the website I'm on
right now is $62 .99. So

757
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:43,830
let's just call it 60 for
the sake of argument. At

758
00:38:43,830 --> 00:38:47,330
$60, I can't think of a
lot of cask strength

759
00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:51,890
bourbons that are also
finished bourbons. Like,

760
00:38:52,410 --> 00:38:55,570
you know, I was going to
compare this to Wild Turkey

761
00:38:55,570 --> 00:38:58,110
Rare Breed, which I think
is just a vastly superior

762
00:38:58,110 --> 00:39:02,090
product to this. But
it's not quite fair because

763
00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:04,830
this does have an
additional step in its

764
00:39:04,830 --> 00:39:07,910
production process. So
when I take that into

765
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:10,610
consideration, I don't think
this is a bad value. It's

766
00:39:10,610 --> 00:39:13,330
not my favorite whiskey at
this price point. But

767
00:39:13,330 --> 00:39:16,190
considering everything that
goes into this, I think a

768
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:19,010
seven out of 10 is a
pretty fair score on the

769
00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:22,870
value here. Yeah,
I think that as I consider

770
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:26,290
the value on this whiskey,
I'm kind of sitting at the

771
00:39:26,290 --> 00:39:29,610
six and a half range. This
is a really good whiskey

772
00:39:29,610 --> 00:39:35,730
that if it was even just
five to $10 cheaper, I

773
00:39:35,730 --> 00:39:38,550
would be in a really solid
seven and a half, eight

774
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:41,810
out of 10 place. But
I think six and a half is

775
00:39:41,810 --> 00:39:45,550
a good spot for for Makers
46 cask strength. Yeah.

776
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:48,350
And you know, I think for
me, I go back to the

777
00:39:48,350 --> 00:39:51,110
Makers cask strength, which
I think we just had last

778
00:39:51,110 --> 00:39:53,730
season on the show. And
that's one of my favorite

779
00:39:53,730 --> 00:39:56,010
whiskeys. Like,
it's become a pretty big

780
00:39:56,010 --> 00:39:58,510
staple on my shelf. It
was something that I hadn't

781
00:39:58,510 --> 00:40:01,570
tried because it had been
six seasons since we tried

782
00:40:01,570 --> 00:40:04,150
anything from Makers. And
we tried that Makers cask

783
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:06,050
strength and I was blown
away. And

784
00:40:06,050 --> 00:40:08,390
that's usually between $40
and $50. So

785
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:11,750
this is a significant step
up in price point. I

786
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:14,670
think I still prefer the
regular Makers cask strength

787
00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:18,830
here, Brad, but I'm still
coming out to a 37 .5 out

788
00:40:18,830 --> 00:40:20,390
of 50. Where
are you falling on this

789
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:24,150
one? I'm
coming out to a 38 out of

790
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:26,230
50 here. Okay.
All right. So

791
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:33,290
we are at a 37 .75 or a
75 .5 out of 100. If

792
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:35,370
I'm being honest with you,
Brad, this seems a few

793
00:40:35,370 --> 00:40:39,410
points too high. Like,
it's very easily in the

794
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:42,830
green. Yes,
you should recommend area

795
00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:44,550
of our spreadsheet here.
Oh,

796
00:40:44,590 --> 00:40:47,310
100%. But
like, I don't think I'm

797
00:40:47,310 --> 00:40:49,290
going to buy a bottle of
this anytime soon. Do

798
00:40:49,290 --> 00:40:53,350
you? Probably
not. I

799
00:40:53,350 --> 00:40:55,910
think that there's other
cask strength options out

800
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:59,590
there for me. But
overall, like, this is a

801
00:40:59,590 --> 00:41:03,390
whiskey I would recommend
people to buy. I

802
00:41:03,390 --> 00:41:05,750
mean, if you go to a
bourbon bar and they price

803
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:07,570
things fairly, I would
assume this is going to

804
00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:11,990
cost you between, I don't
know, $13 and $15 for a

805
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:13,770
pour. Yeah.
And I think that's a

806
00:41:13,770 --> 00:41:16,830
pretty, like, it's a
worthwhile pour at that

807
00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:19,270
price. And
it's 109 proof. At

808
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:21,330
least our barrel is. So
it's not like you're

809
00:41:21,330 --> 00:41:23,170
getting something that's
really diluted and watered

810
00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:25,110
down. I
would give it a thumbs up.

811
00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:26,450
It's
just not like my most

812
00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:29,150
enthusiastic thumbs up ever.
Yeah,

813
00:41:29,230 --> 00:41:33,170
I would say so, like three
quarters thumbs up. Brad,

814
00:41:33,250 --> 00:41:36,730
it is just a very weird
day here at Filmen Whiskey.

815
00:41:36,850 --> 00:41:38,470
I
feel so weird trying to

816
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:40,650
bridge the movie that we're
watching with the fact that

817
00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:43,030
we are also reviewing
whiskey. So

818
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:44,790
I'm just not going to
think about it that much,

819
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:46,990
but it's time to get back
into talking Catholic.

820
00:41:48,490 --> 00:41:50,350
They're
all about drinking. That

821
00:41:50,350 --> 00:41:53,050
is true. Talking
about Jesus drinking and

822
00:41:53,050 --> 00:41:55,170
guilt. Those
are the two things we do.

823
00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:56,370
And
they are. This

824
00:41:56,377 --> 00:41:59,990
is like the most Catholic
movie we'll ever watch.

825
00:42:00,590 --> 00:42:01,930
Well,
let's talk about it, Brad.

826
00:42:02,090 --> 00:42:02,810
What
do you say we get back

827
00:42:02,810 --> 00:42:05,430
into the passion of the
Christ? Let's

828
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:12,010
get to it, man. All
right, everybody. That

829
00:42:12,010 --> 00:42:16,370
was Makersmark 46 cask
strength, a whiskey that I

830
00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:19,970
really enjoyed, Bob. Yeah,
it was pretty good. I

831
00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:22,330
enjoyed it so much. I
think I might add it to

832
00:42:22,330 --> 00:42:24,510
an infinity bottle that I
have going on. Oh,

833
00:42:24,510 --> 00:42:26,950
there you go. What
are your criteria for your

834
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:29,270
infinity bottle? Because
there's a good that are

835
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:31,830
just like, I have an ounce
left, it's going in the

836
00:42:31,830 --> 00:42:33,450
bottle. And
I think that that is a

837
00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:36,610
recipe for disaster. Yes,
no, that's a recipe for

838
00:42:36,610 --> 00:42:39,490
disaster. Unless
you're only drinking like

839
00:42:39,490 --> 00:42:43,510
premium whiskies, then like,
sure, maybe it'll work. For

840
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:46,150
the most part, if I think
a whiskey is really, really

841
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:53,210
good. And
within, like, if I'm

842
00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:57,930
building a specifically more
bourbon leaning infinity

843
00:42:57,930 --> 00:43:00,530
bottle, I'm not going to
put a ton of rise in

844
00:43:00,530 --> 00:43:02,970
there, but I might put one
or two just to get a

845
00:43:02,970 --> 00:43:05,150
little flavor. Yep,
yep. So

846
00:43:05,150 --> 00:43:08,410
like, I kind of have a
vibe I'm going for, and I

847
00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:09,590
want it to taste good.
You're

848
00:43:09,590 --> 00:43:12,370
not just dumping like
lagovulin on top of your

849
00:43:12,370 --> 00:43:13,850
bourbon infinity bottle.
Yeah,

850
00:43:13,930 --> 00:43:17,350
although I've been thinking
about making some sort of

851
00:43:17,350 --> 00:43:21,690
like scotch American blended
infinity bottle that could

852
00:43:21,690 --> 00:43:23,510
be a lot of fun. Here's
the thing. Have

853
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:28,370
we tried making peated
bourbon yet? We

854
00:43:28,370 --> 00:43:31,490
should. Because
like there's peated American

855
00:43:31,490 --> 00:43:33,610
single malt. Why
have we not applied peat

856
00:43:33,610 --> 00:43:35,950
to other things? Is
it is it that bad? I

857
00:43:35,950 --> 00:43:38,230
have to imagine someone's
tried it. Yeah,

858
00:43:38,330 --> 00:43:41,010
I would imagine somebody's
tried it. Peated

859
00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:43,910
rye. They
do to that sounds great.

860
00:43:44,290 --> 00:43:44,850
Let's
do that. Sounds

861
00:43:44,857 --> 00:43:46,950
incredible. Let's
do it. That'll

862
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:49,630
be our distilleries main
focus, Bob. All

863
00:43:49,638 --> 00:43:52,430
right, man. Well,
while we mull over the

864
00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:54,550
business model for our
distillery, it is time for

865
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:57,550
us to get into our next
segment, which we call two

866
00:43:57,550 --> 00:44:01,170
facts and a falsehood. Brad
is going to try to stump

867
00:44:01,170 --> 00:44:07,470
you, Bob, to our eye. And
what is wrong? Two

868
00:44:07,470 --> 00:44:10,450
facts and a falsehood. Two
facts and a falsehood is

869
00:44:10,450 --> 00:44:12,930
the part of the show where
Brad presents me with three

870
00:44:12,930 --> 00:44:16,250
items as fact about the
making of this movie, one

871
00:44:16,250 --> 00:44:17,770
of which is a complete
lie. And

872
00:44:17,770 --> 00:44:20,790
I have to figure out which
one that is. Brad,

873
00:44:20,910 --> 00:44:23,810
I'm doing, I think, fairly
well on the season. Let's

874
00:44:23,810 --> 00:44:26,310
see what what old Bob is
sitting out here. Eleven

875
00:44:26,310 --> 00:44:28,970
and six on the year right
now, Brad. Now,

876
00:44:28,990 --> 00:44:31,630
Bob, I am going to throw
you a curveball today. Are

877
00:44:31,630 --> 00:44:33,750
you ready? Mm
-hmm. So

878
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:37,870
you you got two losses
because of one of our

879
00:44:37,870 --> 00:44:40,570
guests steered you the
wrong direction at some

880
00:44:40,570 --> 00:44:44,010
point. And
so I figured that today we

881
00:44:44,010 --> 00:44:46,870
could allow for a grace
week. Because

882
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:51,330
I felt weird writing
falsehoods about a movie

883
00:44:51,330 --> 00:44:55,290
about Jesus. You
know, maybe we should do

884
00:44:55,290 --> 00:44:57,530
that instead of playing our
game is just talk about

885
00:44:57,530 --> 00:45:02,570
the weird inexplicable guilt
related with this film. It

886
00:45:02,570 --> 00:45:04,870
is it is indeed the most
Catholic of films because

887
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:08,370
yes, I like I feel weird
joking about it. I

888
00:45:08,370 --> 00:45:11,330
feel weird talking about it
even just as a movie like

889
00:45:11,330 --> 00:45:13,830
there is there's a lot of
Jesus tied up in this

890
00:45:13,830 --> 00:45:16,990
movie. And
whether or not it actually

891
00:45:16,990 --> 00:45:19,970
has anything to do with
how Jesus thinks about me.

892
00:45:20,529 --> 00:45:22,190
My
mind has been telling me,

893
00:45:22,190 --> 00:45:24,370
hey, dude, this is a
serious business. You

894
00:45:24,370 --> 00:45:28,710
can't joke around about the
passion of the Christ. So

895
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:30,550
what I hear you saying is
I get an automatic win.

896
00:45:31,310 --> 00:45:32,970
What
I'm actually saying is

897
00:45:32,970 --> 00:45:35,850
we're just taking a week
off. All

898
00:45:35,857 --> 00:45:37,690
right, cool. Well,
now that I've included the

899
00:45:37,690 --> 00:45:39,630
theme song to two facts
and a falsehood and

900
00:45:39,630 --> 00:45:41,550
everything else, we're just
not going to do it, folks.

901
00:45:41,890 --> 00:45:43,370
So
there you have it. This

902
00:45:43,370 --> 00:45:45,530
week's two facts and a
falsehood. Two

903
00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:48,230
facts and a falsehood. All
right, Brad, let's get back

904
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:50,930
into talking about the
passion of the Christ. And

905
00:45:50,930 --> 00:45:53,870
I do think that we have
to talk about Mel Gibson a

906
00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:57,910
little bit because it is,
I believe, less than a

907
00:45:57,910 --> 00:46:01,610
year after this movie comes
out that he has his huge

908
00:46:01,610 --> 00:46:05,010
drunken meltdown. One
of the most highly

909
00:46:05,010 --> 00:46:07,830
publicized celebrity
meltdowns of all time. Like

910
00:46:07,830 --> 00:46:10,810
this thing dominated
headlines for weeks.

911
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:13,390
Everybody
was a very big fan of

912
00:46:13,390 --> 00:46:15,850
reporting on this. Well,
I mean, it had to do with

913
00:46:15,850 --> 00:46:17,850
the fact that he was one
of the biggest stars in

914
00:46:17,850 --> 00:46:20,470
Hollywood and he had just
made the passion of the

915
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:22,270
Christ. So
he was like he was being

916
00:46:22,270 --> 00:46:28,250
lauded very unfairly as
like this champion of moral

917
00:46:28,250 --> 00:46:31,290
like fortitude and a
paragon of what is right

918
00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:33,570
in the world. And
like that was not accurate

919
00:46:33,570 --> 00:46:36,090
at all. And
it really came crashing

920
00:46:36,090 --> 00:46:38,830
down for him. And
I think that whatever your

921
00:46:38,830 --> 00:46:42,450
thoughts are on Mel Gibson
are very easy to read back

922
00:46:42,450 --> 00:46:44,910
onto this movie in
retrospect. And

923
00:46:44,910 --> 00:46:47,650
I'm especially referring to
the fact that even at the

924
00:46:47,650 --> 00:46:50,510
time of its release, this
movie was condemned by a

925
00:46:50,510 --> 00:46:54,010
lot of groups as being
really anti -Semitic. But

926
00:46:54,010 --> 00:46:56,270
I think that it is worth
us mentioning, Brad, that

927
00:46:56,270 --> 00:47:00,790
like Mel Gibson has not
done this movie any favors

928
00:47:00,790 --> 00:47:05,870
with his own behavior. No,
it's totally fine, man.

929
00:47:07,890 --> 00:47:09,510
Here's
the thing about Mel Gibson.

930
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:13,490
Have
you ever seen the clip of

931
00:47:13,490 --> 00:47:16,030
Robert Downey Jr. talking
about his relationship with

932
00:47:16,030 --> 00:47:18,170
Mel? Yeah,
I have. I

933
00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:21,050
think that that kind of...
I

934
00:47:21,050 --> 00:47:23,890
would hope that anybody who
encounters me as a human

935
00:47:23,890 --> 00:47:27,750
being will kind of hold
the good things and tension

936
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:30,510
with the bad of who I am.
And

937
00:47:30,510 --> 00:47:33,210
I think that that's kind
of the perfect balance you

938
00:47:33,210 --> 00:47:35,790
have to hold for Mel
Gibson here. Like,

939
00:47:35,870 --> 00:47:38,510
is he the person who went
on a drunken, outrageous,

940
00:47:39,110 --> 00:47:44,710
just rampage and, you know,
is bad? Yep.

941
00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:48,790
I like, I am sure that he
did those things. It

942
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:51,330
does not surprise me at
all. Is

943
00:47:51,330 --> 00:47:53,870
he also the person who
took in Robert Downey Jr.

944
00:47:54,010 --> 00:47:55,630
when
he was at his lowest and

945
00:47:55,630 --> 00:47:58,030
gave him an opportunity to
get back on his feet and

946
00:47:58,030 --> 00:48:01,250
encouraged him and loved
him up to a place where

947
00:48:01,250 --> 00:48:03,610
he could become a superstar
again? Yep.

948
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:05,730
I believe that that is
true. Like,

949
00:48:05,810 --> 00:48:07,110
I don't think Robert Downey
Jr. was

950
00:48:07,110 --> 00:48:10,250
lying about those things.
So,

951
00:48:10,250 --> 00:48:14,390
if anything, that to me
depicts the beauty of this

952
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:17,730
film. That
like, when Jesus died on

953
00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:21,230
the cross, it was for the
Mel Gibson who helped

954
00:48:21,230 --> 00:48:24,130
Robert Downey Jr. get
back on his feet and it

955
00:48:24,130 --> 00:48:26,990
was for the Mel Gibson who
was going on a drunken

956
00:48:26,990 --> 00:48:29,890
rampage. Like,
there's grace for both of

957
00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:31,910
those versions of Mel
Gibson. Yeah.

958
00:48:32,590 --> 00:48:35,610
Man, and I, like, I hate
to, I don't mean to soften

959
00:48:35,610 --> 00:48:37,730
the impact of what you
just said either. And

960
00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:38,790
I'm not trying to do that.
But

961
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:41,650
I do think that there are
a number of people who see

962
00:48:41,650 --> 00:48:44,510
this movie and feel very
attacked by it. You

963
00:48:44,510 --> 00:48:47,230
know, like, we've had,
we've had Jewish people as

964
00:48:47,230 --> 00:48:49,530
guest hosts on this show
before, Brad. Like,

965
00:48:50,070 --> 00:48:52,290
it is, I think it is a
fair reading of the movie

966
00:48:52,290 --> 00:48:55,890
to wonder if Mel Gibson
had some sort of animus in

967
00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:57,990
his heart against certain
people that he is depicting

968
00:48:57,990 --> 00:49:00,050
in the movie. I'm
not saying he did. I'm

969
00:49:00,050 --> 00:49:01,790
not even saying that I
agree with that. I'm

970
00:49:01,790 --> 00:49:05,250
just saying that's one
reading of the film. I

971
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:07,610
also do think, now go
ahead. I

972
00:49:07,610 --> 00:49:11,410
think for me, though,
that's not really, to me,

973
00:49:11,570 --> 00:49:16,190
that's too black and white
of a reading of this film.

974
00:49:16,570 --> 00:49:17,890
Because
at the end of the day,

975
00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:21,330
like, Jesus is Jewish in
this movie. All

976
00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:24,990
of the people who care for
Jesus are Jewish in this

977
00:49:24,990 --> 00:49:27,850
movie. Yeah.
Like, sure, the, you know,

978
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:31,370
the Romans are portrayed
somewhat graciously, but

979
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:33,510
there's also a lot of the
Roman soldiers who are

980
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:35,430
portrayed as absolute pigs.
Mm

981
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:38,690
-hmm. And
so I think that, I just

982
00:49:38,690 --> 00:49:42,790
don't think that you can
watch this movie and

983
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:46,510
honestly say that, like,
well, Mel Gibson is a

984
00:49:46,510 --> 00:49:49,270
racist. He
hates all of the Jewish

985
00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:53,130
people in the world. Like,
there are so many Jewish

986
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:55,570
people in this movie who
are portrayed really

987
00:49:55,570 --> 00:49:58,030
beautifully and kind and
caring. And

988
00:49:58,038 --> 00:50:00,570
so I, I don't know, man.
To

989
00:50:00,570 --> 00:50:03,650
me, I'll just be blunt. I
think that's a silly point.

990
00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:05,210
Yeah.
And I was, I was in the

991
00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:07,170
middle of trying to steer
away from it, too. So

992
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:10,690
I do think that the other
point of conversation around

993
00:50:10,690 --> 00:50:13,310
the Mel Gibson thing is
like, Mel Gibson is

994
00:50:13,310 --> 00:50:15,610
primarily known for
directing three movies. And

995
00:50:15,610 --> 00:50:17,530
this is the second of the
three, the first being

996
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:20,190
Braveheart, second, this,
and the third one, a movie

997
00:50:20,190 --> 00:50:22,830
he makes, like, two years
later called Apocalypto.

998
00:50:23,310 --> 00:50:26,110
They
are all incredibly violent

999
00:50:26,110 --> 00:50:30,890
movies, like, very violent
movies. And

1000
00:50:30,890 --> 00:50:32,910
I think that, like, one of
the conversations happening

1001
00:50:32,910 --> 00:50:34,610
at the time this movie
came out, if you read

1002
00:50:34,610 --> 00:50:36,790
reviews of it, too, Roger
Ebert says, this is the

1003
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:38,950
most violent movie I have
ever seen. And

1004
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:41,310
my guy, Raj, was watching
some really messed up stuff

1005
00:50:41,310 --> 00:50:44,130
over the years. So
I have to believe him. I

1006
00:50:44,130 --> 00:50:45,970
have to take him at his
word. And

1007
00:50:45,970 --> 00:50:47,870
I've been doing this
thought experiment, Brad, of

1008
00:50:47,870 --> 00:50:51,690
like, I, I want to give
Mel Gibson the benefit of

1009
00:50:51,690 --> 00:50:55,590
the doubt that, like, he,
he found, he, he thought

1010
00:50:55,590 --> 00:50:59,810
that there was a, a, I
want to call it a market

1011
00:50:59,810 --> 00:51:01,710
opportunity. That's
very hollow sounding. But

1012
00:51:01,710 --> 00:51:06,330
like, in the depiction of
Jesus, I think that we

1013
00:51:06,330 --> 00:51:09,390
have gotten a very
sanitized version of the

1014
00:51:09,390 --> 00:51:12,030
passion and death and
resurrection of Jesus in

1015
00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:14,590
all of the movies that
were made prior to this. I

1016
00:51:14,590 --> 00:51:17,750
do think that it is like,
this is certainly the

1017
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:21,250
definitive depiction of
crucifixion that's ever been

1018
00:51:21,250 --> 00:51:24,490
put on screen. I
do sometimes wonder, like,

1019
00:51:24,730 --> 00:51:28,990
what prompted Mel Gibson to
want to make not just a

1020
00:51:28,990 --> 00:51:31,510
Jesus movie, but this
movie? Do

1021
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:33,910
you know what I mean? And
I guess I don't want to

1022
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:35,610
put ourselves in the shoes
of Mel Gibson. But

1023
00:51:35,610 --> 00:51:39,410
Brad, what would you see
as a filmmaker? What

1024
00:51:39,410 --> 00:51:43,290
is the benefit of making a
movie that is solely about

1025
00:51:43,290 --> 00:51:46,070
the passion of Christ as
opposed to any other part

1026
00:51:46,070 --> 00:51:47,910
of his life? Like,
where do you see the

1027
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:50,750
appeal of it? And
where would your mind go

1028
00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:54,210
if you were asked that
question? I

1029
00:51:54,210 --> 00:51:56,950
mean, honestly, man, I
think it would take me to

1030
00:51:56,950 --> 00:52:01,270
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was
a Christian author during

1031
00:52:01,270 --> 00:52:04,430
the reign of Nazi Germany.
And

1032
00:52:04,430 --> 00:52:06,830
he wrote a book called The
Cost of Discipleship that

1033
00:52:06,830 --> 00:52:12,270
basically argues that grace
is costly and that if we,

1034
00:52:12,430 --> 00:52:17,490
if we don't take grace
seriously, it cheapens what

1035
00:52:17,490 --> 00:52:20,690
we have received. And
I think that as a

1036
00:52:20,690 --> 00:52:25,690
filmmaker, I would want to
depict the passion, which

1037
00:52:25,690 --> 00:52:29,170
we haven't talked about
this, but within theology

1038
00:52:29,170 --> 00:52:32,670
and within specifically, you
know, Roman Catholic

1039
00:52:32,670 --> 00:52:36,850
tradition, probably Orthodox
tradition as well. Like,

1040
00:52:36,970 --> 00:52:40,390
the passion of Christ
refers specifically to the

1041
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:44,330
events happening between the
arrest of Jesus through

1042
00:52:44,330 --> 00:52:47,010
the... does
it go through the

1043
00:52:47,010 --> 00:52:49,070
resurrection? Or
does it just go through

1044
00:52:49,070 --> 00:52:51,110
the death, Bob? I
mean, it has the

1045
00:52:51,110 --> 00:52:53,850
resurrection happening at
the end. Okay.

1046
00:52:54,010 --> 00:52:55,950
Which is one of the things
I feel most guilty about,

1047
00:52:56,050 --> 00:52:57,650
because I'm like, dude,
come on. Like,

1048
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:59,990
you didn't have to throw
Jesus getting up from the

1049
00:52:59,990 --> 00:53:01,330
tomb at the end of this
movie. Like,

1050
00:53:01,350 --> 00:53:03,810
it's a movie about how he
died. Sure.

1051
00:53:03,810 --> 00:53:06,810
And I hate when we fast
forward to him getting back

1052
00:53:06,810 --> 00:53:07,710
up. So,
you know what I mean?

1053
00:53:07,830 --> 00:53:09,450
Like,
just like, let us sit in

1054
00:53:09,450 --> 00:53:12,390
the sorrow. Yeah.
Well, and that's, I think

1055
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:15,350
that's kind of what I was
getting at with the cheap

1056
00:53:15,350 --> 00:53:17,190
grace versus costly grace.
Yeah.

1057
00:53:17,570 --> 00:53:21,550
Is that if I'm going to
help people understand how

1058
00:53:21,550 --> 00:53:25,530
much grace cost, I am
going to as viscerally as

1059
00:53:25,530 --> 00:53:29,850
possible depict what
happened to our Lord and

1060
00:53:29,850 --> 00:53:32,610
Savior. And
I think that one of the

1061
00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:37,490
most deep and enduring
powers of movies, of films

1062
00:53:37,490 --> 00:53:43,250
at large, is their ability
to make people feel. And

1063
00:53:43,250 --> 00:53:46,090
I just, the older I get,
Bob, the more I am

1064
00:53:46,090 --> 00:53:52,690
convinced that people have
anesthetized themselves into

1065
00:53:52,690 --> 00:53:55,550
oblivion in our country.
And

1066
00:53:55,550 --> 00:54:01,670
we desperately need a
reawakening of emotions and

1067
00:54:01,670 --> 00:54:05,830
feelings and an embrace of
them. And

1068
00:54:05,830 --> 00:54:08,050
I think that this movie is
an example of that. Like,

1069
00:54:08,930 --> 00:54:13,290
if you don't embrace the
sadness and the brokenness

1070
00:54:13,290 --> 00:54:16,850
and the despair of the
darkest moment in human

1071
00:54:16,850 --> 00:54:19,830
history, then how are you
going to be able to revel

1072
00:54:19,830 --> 00:54:23,070
in the glory of what
Christ offers us? And

1073
00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:26,770
the heights to which he
wants to draw us? I

1074
00:54:26,770 --> 00:54:30,010
just, I think that sitting
in the passion is so

1075
00:54:30,010 --> 00:54:32,070
important. And
so if I was coming at it

1076
00:54:32,070 --> 00:54:35,310
as a filmmaker, I think I
would take the exact same

1077
00:54:35,310 --> 00:54:38,550
tact as Mel here. Yeah.
And I think that to kind

1078
00:54:38,550 --> 00:54:40,990
of try to draw all this
Mel Gibson talk together,

1079
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:43,770
like, I think Mel Gibson
is a deeply flawed man. I

1080
00:54:43,770 --> 00:54:45,770
think, you know, there was
another incident that

1081
00:54:45,770 --> 00:54:47,950
happened years after the
first one that kind of

1082
00:54:47,950 --> 00:54:50,770
reconfirmed for a lot of
people that they think he's

1083
00:54:50,770 --> 00:54:52,970
a bad guy. And
I'm not arguing that. I,

1084
00:54:53,070 --> 00:54:55,570
but I do think that you
can be a very flawed

1085
00:54:55,570 --> 00:54:59,950
person and still make
earnest attempts at

1086
00:54:59,950 --> 00:55:05,270
identifying and depicting
what you consider to be

1087
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:09,630
morally right and true. I
understand people who want

1088
00:55:09,630 --> 00:55:13,530
to read Mel Gibson's flaws
onto this film. I

1089
00:55:13,530 --> 00:55:15,950
personally try to think of
it as like he is a deeply

1090
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:18,470
flawed man who was
earnestly trying to do

1091
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:21,810
something that meant a lot
to him personally and his

1092
00:55:21,810 --> 00:55:24,630
faith. Like
it's hate to bring this

1093
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:26,610
guy up. But
like, it reminds me of

1094
00:55:26,610 --> 00:55:29,110
like the Kanye West thing
from a couple years ago. I

1095
00:55:29,110 --> 00:55:30,750
don't think Kanye West is
a Christian. I

1096
00:55:30,750 --> 00:55:33,310
think at the time he was
really interested in being

1097
00:55:33,310 --> 00:55:36,610
a Christian and his album
is this big flawed mess of

1098
00:55:36,610 --> 00:55:40,330
what he understood or who
he understood Jesus to be

1099
00:55:40,330 --> 00:55:43,230
at that time. And
like, there's a lot of it

1100
00:55:43,230 --> 00:55:45,310
that's theologically
incorrect from a Christian

1101
00:55:45,310 --> 00:55:47,590
perspective. But
that's what Kanye thought

1102
00:55:47,590 --> 00:55:49,430
about Jesus. And
I think he was making an

1103
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:52,110
earnest attempt to
articulate that in the

1104
00:55:52,110 --> 00:55:54,430
moment. And
so I look at this movie

1105
00:55:54,430 --> 00:55:56,650
and like when I think
about the Christian faith,

1106
00:55:57,390 --> 00:55:59,390
one of the beautiful things
about it for me, Brad, is

1107
00:55:59,390 --> 00:56:02,910
that it is such a, it is
such a tapestry. There

1108
00:56:02,910 --> 00:56:05,150
are so many different
strands that you can

1109
00:56:05,150 --> 00:56:08,890
follow. And
different facets of the

1110
00:56:08,890 --> 00:56:12,610
faith hit different people
on different levels. Like

1111
00:56:12,610 --> 00:56:17,110
there are people who like
to sit and think about

1112
00:56:17,110 --> 00:56:20,410
like the the immensity of
God. There

1113
00:56:20,410 --> 00:56:22,610
are people who like to
think about the depiction

1114
00:56:22,610 --> 00:56:25,990
of God as a brother or as
a father, like a familial

1115
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:28,590
aspect really appeals to
some people. There

1116
00:56:28,590 --> 00:56:32,370
are some people for whom
the violence that Jesus

1117
00:56:32,370 --> 00:56:36,550
endured is the most
impactful thing in terms of

1118
00:56:36,550 --> 00:56:40,110
them understanding the
extent of God's love. And

1119
00:56:40,118 --> 00:56:42,270
I think Mel Gibson is just
one of those people like

1120
00:56:42,270 --> 00:56:46,070
the dude has a fixation on
violence, but that doesn't

1121
00:56:46,070 --> 00:56:48,170
necessarily mean that the
violence doesn't mean

1122
00:56:48,170 --> 00:56:50,170
something deeper to him in
this moment. And

1123
00:56:50,170 --> 00:56:52,970
I kind of that's what I
see here is like, yes, my

1124
00:56:52,970 --> 00:56:55,150
guy has a propensity for
violence. I

1125
00:56:55,150 --> 00:56:57,270
also think that might just
be the way that he

1126
00:56:57,270 --> 00:57:02,870
understands the story of
the gospel the best. Yeah,

1127
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:05,630
I don't have any follow up
for that Bob. All

1128
00:57:05,630 --> 00:57:08,170
right, Brad, let's kind of
come out of that for a

1129
00:57:08,170 --> 00:57:09,530
minute. Let's
just do a few quick

1130
00:57:09,530 --> 00:57:11,690
minutes before we get to
our final scores and let's

1131
00:57:11,690 --> 00:57:14,610
make it a double. I
do think this is a flawed

1132
00:57:14,610 --> 00:57:16,670
movie. And
I've already talked about I

1133
00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:18,350
think a lot of the
flashbacks are unnecessary.

1134
00:57:18,830 --> 00:57:19,830
I
think the depiction of

1135
00:57:19,830 --> 00:57:23,230
Satan is unnecessary. When
you look at this just as

1136
00:57:23,230 --> 00:57:29,550
a a filmmakers skills on
display, like what are your

1137
00:57:29,550 --> 00:57:32,610
thoughts on the movie
making here? I

1138
00:57:32,610 --> 00:57:35,650
think the movie making is
spectacular. I

1139
00:57:35,650 --> 00:57:41,790
think that there are
instances of 2004 things

1140
00:57:41,790 --> 00:57:45,810
going on that don't look
great. Specifically

1141
00:57:45,810 --> 00:57:52,790
Jim Caviesles glammed up
eyes where they're they're

1142
00:57:52,790 --> 00:57:55,530
made brown after the fact
in post production. But

1143
00:57:55,530 --> 00:57:58,690
an unnatural brown. Yeah,
yes. Yeah,

1144
00:57:58,730 --> 00:58:01,630
so that that's not great.
There's

1145
00:58:01,630 --> 00:58:04,650
some instances of slow
motion that don't look they

1146
00:58:04,650 --> 00:58:07,910
just look choppy. They're
not super well done.

1147
00:58:07,950 --> 00:58:09,170
There's
other places where the slow

1148
00:58:09,170 --> 00:58:11,050
motion completely fits.
Yeah,

1149
00:58:11,090 --> 00:58:13,470
we were talking last night
about the cinematography

1150
00:58:13,470 --> 00:58:15,350
because you had said to
me, I don't know how I

1151
00:58:15,350 --> 00:58:17,030
feel about the
cinematography. And

1152
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:19,870
the cinematography is
actually one of the few

1153
00:58:19,870 --> 00:58:22,090
areas that was nominated
for an Oscar for this

1154
00:58:22,090 --> 00:58:23,550
movie. And
I think it's really well

1155
00:58:23,550 --> 00:58:26,230
done like the shot
composition, the lighting,

1156
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:30,630
the framing, beautiful. But
what you have sometimes is

1157
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:33,890
like you said this choppy
slow mo where a lot of

1158
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:35,730
times when a director,
especially when they used

1159
00:58:35,730 --> 00:58:38,490
to shoot on film, if they
wanted to do a shot in

1160
00:58:38,490 --> 00:58:41,410
slow motion, they would
shoot it at 48 frames a

1161
00:58:41,410 --> 00:58:43,130
second. So
the film would run through

1162
00:58:43,130 --> 00:58:45,750
the camera faster because
then when you played it

1163
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:48,590
back at 24 frames a
second, it takes twice as

1164
00:58:48,590 --> 00:58:51,370
long to play and you have
a very smooth slow motion.

1165
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:53,230
But
what happens is a lot of

1166
00:58:53,230 --> 00:58:56,330
times you would film a
scene in 24 and then go

1167
00:58:56,330 --> 00:58:58,110
back to the editing room
and say, oh, damn it, I

1168
00:58:58,110 --> 00:59:00,230
really wanted that scene to
be in slow mo. And

1169
00:59:00,230 --> 00:59:04,650
so then you would slow
down your 24 frames to 18

1170
00:59:04,650 --> 00:59:07,590
or 12 or whatever. And
there's not frames to go

1171
00:59:07,590 --> 00:59:09,710
in between anymore. And
so it just kind of looks

1172
00:59:09,710 --> 00:59:11,730
herky, jerky and choppy.
And

1173
00:59:11,730 --> 00:59:13,810
there's quite a few
instances of that in this

1174
00:59:13,810 --> 00:59:15,930
movie. And
I think it's it's not

1175
00:59:15,930 --> 00:59:18,470
necessarily a reflection of
the cinematography because

1176
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:21,570
the shots were set up
really well. I

1177
00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:24,090
think it's more a question
of like, is the editing

1178
00:59:24,090 --> 00:59:25,970
great? Is
the direction great? Because

1179
00:59:25,970 --> 00:59:28,270
it seems like Mel Gibson
had a lot of ideas after

1180
00:59:28,270 --> 00:59:31,550
the fact and they didn't
have the assets to actually

1181
00:59:31,550 --> 00:59:34,230
make those things happen
sometimes. Yeah.

1182
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:37,490
Yeah, 100%. There's
some weirdness with things

1183
00:59:37,490 --> 00:59:41,690
like that going on. But
it's intermixed with really

1184
00:59:41,690 --> 00:59:45,710
beautiful shots. I
think that he frames a lot

1185
00:59:45,710 --> 00:59:49,730
of scenes just incredibly.
You

1186
00:59:49,730 --> 00:59:53,710
can tell that he is trying
to imitate famous paintings,

1187
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:57,690
specifically La Piedta at
the end of the film. And

1188
00:59:57,698 --> 01:00:00,510
and it's it's beautiful.
Like

1189
01:00:00,510 --> 01:00:04,150
I can't fault him at all
for trying to imitate it.

1190
01:00:04,410 --> 01:00:06,850
A,
because the original is

1191
01:00:06,850 --> 01:00:09,890
incredible and B, because
he does a great job of

1192
01:00:09,890 --> 01:00:14,030
making it come to life. So
I love when he does things

1193
01:00:14,030 --> 01:00:16,650
like that. There
was one specific moment

1194
01:00:16,650 --> 01:00:20,910
that I thought was just
one of the coolest shots.

1195
01:00:21,550 --> 01:00:24,370
It
kind of reminded me of the

1196
01:00:24,370 --> 01:00:28,750
the what's it the the
something Lebowski the big.

1197
01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:32,170
Yes.
Of all the words you could

1198
01:00:32,170 --> 01:00:36,410
forget from that title. The
forgettable movie. The

1199
01:00:36,410 --> 01:00:39,330
big Lebowski. Remember
when he puts the camera

1200
01:00:39,330 --> 01:00:40,570
inside the bowling ball?
Oh,

1201
01:00:40,570 --> 01:00:43,370
yeah, yeah. There
was a moment that somewhat

1202
01:00:43,370 --> 01:00:46,310
reminded me of that where
you have this like

1203
01:00:46,310 --> 01:00:50,470
perfectly overhead shot of
the three crosses and the

1204
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:54,610
crowds. And
then the the the edges of

1205
01:00:54,610 --> 01:00:58,410
the camera slowly like dip
in on themselves and you

1206
01:00:58,410 --> 01:01:01,930
realize that it's like a
drop of water falling and

1207
01:01:01,930 --> 01:01:04,390
like you're seeing it
through the drop of water.

1208
01:01:04,670 --> 01:01:06,470
And
as soon as it hits the

1209
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:09,030
earthquake happens and the
darkness falls over the

1210
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:13,970
earth and dude, it's just
incredible. Probably

1211
01:01:13,970 --> 01:01:15,870
the most terrible thing I'm
going to say today. But

1212
01:01:15,870 --> 01:01:19,050
like this is the third
movie now where we've had

1213
01:01:19,050 --> 01:01:22,030
like an entire universe
contained in a small object

1214
01:01:22,030 --> 01:01:23,210
at the end of the movie.
So

1215
01:01:23,210 --> 01:01:26,090
like in Men in Black, they
do that zoom out where it

1216
01:01:26,090 --> 01:01:28,090
turns out the earth is
just inside of like a

1217
01:01:28,090 --> 01:01:30,130
marble that an alien's
playing with. And

1218
01:01:30,130 --> 01:01:32,850
then in the Grinch, it
zooms out and everything's

1219
01:01:32,850 --> 01:01:34,690
inside of one snowflake.
And

1220
01:01:34,690 --> 01:01:36,350
I just feel like there's
this weird cinematic

1221
01:01:36,350 --> 01:01:40,050
universe of like pick a
small object and see what

1222
01:01:40,050 --> 01:01:41,550
universe is inside of it.
And

1223
01:01:41,550 --> 01:01:43,570
it's like, yeah, OK, if
you pick the marble, you

1224
01:01:43,570 --> 01:01:45,350
get Men in Black. If
you look in the snowflake,

1225
01:01:45,410 --> 01:01:48,170
you get this warm, happy
Grinch movie. Oh,

1226
01:01:48,170 --> 01:01:50,190
if you look in this
raindrop, you get to look

1227
01:01:50,190 --> 01:01:54,730
in on the most devastating
horrific event in human

1228
01:01:54,730 --> 01:01:58,910
history happening. Yeah,
no big deal, man. I

1229
01:01:58,910 --> 01:02:01,590
do think that the score
for this movie is probably

1230
01:02:01,590 --> 01:02:03,470
my least favorite part of
the film. There

1231
01:02:03,470 --> 01:02:06,370
are a few moments where
it's just strings and it

1232
01:02:06,370 --> 01:02:08,790
is like, you know, it's
like some Adagio. It's

1233
01:02:08,790 --> 01:02:11,230
it's just heart wrenching.
But

1234
01:02:11,230 --> 01:02:14,930
then there's also the like
vaguely Middle Eastern

1235
01:02:14,930 --> 01:02:19,070
wailing with drums under it
for half the movie. And

1236
01:02:19,070 --> 01:02:21,230
it sounds it just sounds
so dated. It

1237
01:02:21,238 --> 01:02:23,450
sounds like every movie
that was set in the Middle

1238
01:02:23,450 --> 01:02:27,130
East from 1995 to 2015.
And

1239
01:02:27,130 --> 01:02:29,970
like surprisingly, the score
for this movie was

1240
01:02:29,970 --> 01:02:32,150
nominated for an Oscar. And
I thought it was like

1241
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:35,790
legit bad. Oh,
I think you're crazy. Oh,

1242
01:02:35,950 --> 01:02:37,870
my God. I
think it works. I

1243
01:02:37,870 --> 01:02:40,890
wouldn't say it's like a
great score, but I think

1244
01:02:40,890 --> 01:02:44,970
it works at what it's
called to do, which is to

1245
01:02:44,970 --> 01:02:48,530
underlay what's happening on
screen. And

1246
01:02:48,530 --> 01:02:50,690
I think it does a great
job of that. All

1247
01:02:50,690 --> 01:02:52,270
right, man. Well,
it sounds like we're kind

1248
01:02:52,270 --> 01:02:54,950
of in slightly different
places on this film. But

1249
01:02:54,950 --> 01:02:57,070
before we get final scores,
it's time for our final

1250
01:02:57,070 --> 01:02:59,950
segment of the day, which
we call Let's Make It a

1251
01:02:59,950 --> 01:03:12,450
Double. Let's
Make It a Double is the

1252
01:03:12,450 --> 01:03:14,770
part of the show where we
pick a movie to pair up

1253
01:03:14,770 --> 01:03:16,890
with this one to make the
perfect double feature.

1254
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:18,990
Brad,
I've already given mine. It

1255
01:03:18,990 --> 01:03:22,030
is the Carl Theodore Dreyer
film, The Passion of Joan

1256
01:03:22,030 --> 01:03:24,210
of Arc. It
is one of the 10, maybe

1257
01:03:24,210 --> 01:03:26,970
15 best movies I've ever
seen. I

1258
01:03:26,970 --> 01:03:28,690
it's better than this
movie. And

1259
01:03:28,690 --> 01:03:31,850
I would highly recommend. I
know I've told you before

1260
01:03:31,850 --> 01:03:33,930
and I know it's a hard
sell to say like, hey,

1261
01:03:34,110 --> 01:03:36,510
it's basically the passion
of the Christ, but it's a

1262
01:03:36,510 --> 01:03:38,610
silent movie. I
get it. I

1263
01:03:38,610 --> 01:03:41,810
get it. But
like you are doing yourself

1264
01:03:41,810 --> 01:03:44,670
a disservice to not go
watch this movie so good.

1265
01:03:45,130 --> 01:03:45,790
I
don't know if I'm doing

1266
01:03:45,790 --> 01:03:48,170
myself a disservice. I
have a lot of things on

1267
01:03:48,170 --> 01:03:50,910
my on my dock. I'm
the general you, you know,

1268
01:03:50,990 --> 01:03:53,690
like, ah, yes, people of
earth. It's

1269
01:03:53,690 --> 01:03:55,230
one of the best films ever
made. If

1270
01:03:55,230 --> 01:03:57,030
you like movies, you need
to watch it. The

1271
01:03:57,030 --> 01:03:59,910
end you you put it on one
of our seasons and I will

1272
01:03:59,910 --> 01:04:01,670
watch it. All
right, man. What's

1273
01:04:01,670 --> 01:04:03,910
your Let's Make It a
Double, Brad? Man,

1274
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:05,910
honestly, I kind of want
to tell people to go read

1275
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:09,090
the book of John. Like
that that would be my

1276
01:04:09,090 --> 01:04:11,170
Let's Make It a Double. As
long as it's not the big

1277
01:04:11,170 --> 01:04:16,750
Lebowski, I think you're
doing OK. Um,

1278
01:04:16,750 --> 01:04:23,130
man, I really don't know
if I have a movie. You

1279
01:04:23,130 --> 01:04:24,950
know, I think I'm actually
going to pair it with

1280
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:28,110
Schindler's List. If
I had to pair it with a

1281
01:04:28,110 --> 01:04:31,810
movie that gives an
absolutely heart wrenching

1282
01:04:31,810 --> 01:04:35,630
account of a devastating
event in human history.

1283
01:04:36,850 --> 01:04:38,810
That's
probably the best. Yeah,

1284
01:04:38,830 --> 01:04:41,430
you could do a lot worse.
Yeah.

1285
01:04:41,750 --> 01:04:43,490
Yeah, so I'll say
Schindler's List. It

1286
01:04:43,490 --> 01:04:47,270
will be the saddest night
of film that you could

1287
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:50,550
ever engage in. I
can imagine just like

1288
01:04:50,550 --> 01:04:52,790
walking in on someone who
has just finished that

1289
01:04:52,790 --> 01:04:55,810
marathon of movies. Oh,
dude, their eyes would be

1290
01:04:55,810 --> 01:04:59,870
just slubbery and yeah, it
would be brutal. All

1291
01:04:59,870 --> 01:05:01,050
right. Well,
there's our incredibly

1292
01:05:01,050 --> 01:05:02,810
entertaining Let's Make It
a Double. I

1293
01:05:02,810 --> 01:05:04,810
picked the passion of Joan
of Arc. Brad

1294
01:05:04,810 --> 01:05:07,150
picked Schindler's List.
Let's

1295
01:05:07,150 --> 01:05:08,950
give this movie some final
scores. Brad,

1296
01:05:09,070 --> 01:05:12,190
I've been waffling between
a seven and a half and an

1297
01:05:12,190 --> 01:05:14,950
eight on this movie. I
think that it is an

1298
01:05:14,950 --> 01:05:18,570
incredibly effective movie,
even if you are not a

1299
01:05:18,570 --> 01:05:21,350
follower of Jesus, even if
you're not a believer. In

1300
01:05:21,350 --> 01:05:24,550
terms of depicting a
historically accurate

1301
01:05:24,550 --> 01:05:29,450
crucifixion and just the
injustices committed against

1302
01:05:29,450 --> 01:05:34,230
a principled person, I
think that it is incredibly

1303
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:37,010
effective. It
needs tightening up. It

1304
01:05:37,010 --> 01:05:39,790
could lose 15 minutes. It
could do without a bunch

1305
01:05:39,790 --> 01:05:41,750
of the flashbacks and it
could do without the Satan

1306
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:44,090
character altogether. And
I think you're looking at

1307
01:05:44,090 --> 01:05:45,210
like a nine and a half.
But

1308
01:05:45,210 --> 01:05:48,630
for me, it's going to be
seven and a half out of

1309
01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:52,170
10. Man,
Jesus is watching you, Bob.

1310
01:05:54,330 --> 01:05:55,750
Judgementally,
to be clear. Yeah,

1311
01:05:55,770 --> 01:05:58,570
thank you. Thank
you so much. No,

1312
01:05:58,710 --> 01:06:02,070
I think I can understand
that take, Bob. I'm

1313
01:06:02,070 --> 01:06:03,830
just on kind of on the
opposite end of the

1314
01:06:03,830 --> 01:06:06,650
spectrum. I
think that Bell does an

1315
01:06:06,650 --> 01:06:08,290
incredible job with this
movie. I

1316
01:06:08,290 --> 01:06:10,890
think the cinematography is
beautiful. I

1317
01:06:10,890 --> 01:06:12,550
think the performances are
great. I

1318
01:06:12,550 --> 01:06:15,290
think the soundtrack is
awesome. There

1319
01:06:15,290 --> 01:06:18,710
is just so much to like
about this movie. And

1320
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:23,090
then you top on I am
making all things new and

1321
01:06:23,090 --> 01:06:28,330
the theological implications
of what's happening here. I

1322
01:06:28,330 --> 01:06:30,050
think that this is a nine
and a half out of 10,

1323
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:34,090
Bob. I
found myself utterly engaged

1324
01:06:34,090 --> 01:06:38,190
and captivated by what Mel
was doing. All

1325
01:06:38,190 --> 01:06:40,030
right. Well,
we are actually well above

1326
01:06:40,030 --> 01:06:43,390
the IMDB average on this
movie of a 7 .2 because we

1327
01:06:43,390 --> 01:06:46,570
are coming out to an 8 .5
out of 10. But

1328
01:06:46,570 --> 01:06:47,950
we'd like to know what you
think. How

1329
01:06:47,950 --> 01:06:49,990
long has it been since
you've seen The Passion? Is

1330
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:52,950
it a film that you feel
like returning to anytime

1331
01:06:52,950 --> 01:06:55,210
soon? You
can let us know on all of

1332
01:06:55,210 --> 01:06:58,570
our social media accounts,
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,

1333
01:06:59,170 --> 01:07:02,530
TikTok, and YouTube at
FilmWiskey. Or

1334
01:07:02,530 --> 01:07:03,850
you can jump on Discord.
We

1335
01:07:03,850 --> 01:07:06,590
are on there every single
day talking with you guys,

1336
01:07:06,830 --> 01:07:09,070
fans of the Film and
Whiskey podcast. If

1337
01:07:09,070 --> 01:07:10,690
you'd like to join the
conversation, you can find

1338
01:07:10,690 --> 01:07:12,630
a link at the end of
every single one of our

1339
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:14,890
show notes. Next
week, we are continuing the

1340
01:07:14,890 --> 01:07:18,370
Jesus metaphors before we
dive into the godless and

1341
01:07:18,370 --> 01:07:20,390
soulless world of Marvel.
With

1342
01:07:20,390 --> 01:07:23,110
one last hurrah from the
Disney Corporation, it is

1343
01:07:23,110 --> 01:07:25,590
The Lion, The Witch, and
The Wardrobe, the first

1344
01:07:25,590 --> 01:07:28,490
film in the Chronicles of
Narnia series. So

1345
01:07:28,490 --> 01:07:30,230
join us next week for
Narnia. But

1346
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:32,670
until then, I'm Bob Book.
I'm

1347
01:07:32,670 --> 01:07:34,630
Brad G. And
we'll see you next time.

1348
01:07:43,070 --> 01:08:02,150
Thanks
for watching!