The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King / Pappy Van Winkle 15

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In 2003, director.
Peter Jackson returns to give

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the world an epic conclusion, to
one of the most revered

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trilogies and cinematic history
in 2021.

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After four seasons.
We finally try the granddaddy of

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them.
All the film is, the Lord of the

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Rings Return of the King.
The whiskey is Pappy, Van Winkle

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15-year and we'll review them
both.

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This is the film, and He podcast
welcome to the film and whiskey

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podcast.
Where each week, we review a

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classic movie and a glass of
whiskey.

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I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and
this week we are wrapping up

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season.
And for Brad, this is our

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regular season finale here,
movie number 32 for the season.

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And we're going out with a bang
here with Lord of the Rings, The

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Return of the King, okay?
May come when the courage of men

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fails.
When we forsake our friends and

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break all bonds of Fellowship
but it is not this day.

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An hour of wolves and shattered
Shields.

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When the age of men comes
crashing down.

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But it is not this day.
This day, we fight by all that.

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You hold dear on this Good
Earth.

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I bid, you stand.
Yeah, it's a wild world that we

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live in Bob like we we have seen
this through Multiple

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presidents.
We've seen it through a

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pandemic.
Yeah.

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Like this podcast is, is pretty
much in vulnerable at this

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point.
Yeah, it mean it's it is truly a

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time capsule of Our Moment in
history, is it not?

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Yeah.
You know, the podcast where we

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talk about movies of whiskies
from other like, 70 years ago.

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Yeah.
Hey man, before we jump in here,

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first of all, I just, I want to
say, I just got back from my

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local library.
Where the movie critic Leonard

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maltin was giving a talk and
more, you know?

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Yeah.
And you know, I gotta say like,

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Leonard maltin was the first
movie critic that I was ever

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aware of growing up.
When I was really little, my

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parents, you know, sent away for
these VHS tapes of The Little

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Rascals.
They've released like all the

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little rascal shorts on VHS and
Leonard.

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Maltin had written a book about
The Little Rascals and so he was

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on every single one of the tapes
giving introductions and he was

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the first person that That I was
ever aware of that like his job

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was just loving movies and it
was it was so cool to learn that

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at a young age, like you can
love this piece of art.

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This, this little thing, we call
a movie so much that it can

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become your job to just talk
about how much you love movies

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and Brad.
It just like reignited.

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Once again how much I love
movies watching this man.

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He now has Parkinson's disease
and he came and talked about

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having Parkinson's a bit and
Watching this man on stage, who

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is, you know, is in the throes
of this degenerative disease.

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And he just told stories about
interviewing Katharine Hepburn

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and talking with all these
Hollywood Legends, how he met

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Fred Astaire and just watching
the smile on his face, he was

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like a little kid and talking
about how he met all these

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famous figures in history and
little did he know like to me?

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He was one of those famous
figures so it was just it was

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such a cool thing and I've been
thinking about it all night, man

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and I Just feel, seriously.
So privileged to just do this

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thing that we call the podcast
and be able to come here and

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talk to you about how much I
love movies, man.

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Like, thank you for going on
this ride with me.

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Thank you filmon, whiskey Nation
for continuing to listen to us,

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ramble about movies.
But like, there is nowhere else

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that I would rather be right now
than talking with you about this

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movie bread.
Yeah, dude.

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I that is an advanced full night
Bob.

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Hmm.
I also had an eventful night.

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I, did you hear how my sentiment
just died on the vine, their

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film in whiskey?
I was like Brad.

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There's nowhere else on Earth.
I'd rather be in Brad's like

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yeah cool.
Bob I found a really good peanut

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butter stout tonight I'm pumped
about it.

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I hate you so much.
Take back everything.

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I said, dude, you do get it.
It's really tasty.

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Yeah.
All right, fine.

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And it's from Cleveland.
Well, there it is.

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So, all right man.
Well you've already disappointed

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me enough so let's just jump
right into talking about this

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movie.
Here, here's the thing.

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Bob, I 100% wanted to tell you
this epic story about me, trying

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to find this damn peanut butter
stout for like weeks now and I

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finally got it tonight and And I
like had this all planned out to

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tell you about it and then you
just had the cutest story in the

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world that was just like,
touching and meaningful.

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And I knew in my soul, I just
had to ruin it.

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Yeah, what we really say?
Because you knew in your soul,

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that your peanut butter, stout
story was just was not stacking

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up.
Yeah, hundred percent, but I

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still had to tell it and is that
in telling the actual story, I

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just had to be Petty about it.
I feel it, man.

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So listen, if you recall, if
you've been listening, And

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throughout the season, you know
that we actually started the

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season with the Lord of the
Rings, The Two Towers.

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We weren't going to do Return of
the King until next year.

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But Brad and I were kind of
brainstorming and we wanted to

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do something different, starting
with season five.

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And so, in season five, what
we're actually doing Brad and I

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have each come up with a list of
15 movies that are near and dear

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to our hearts or movies that we
remember liking as kids.

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Or, you know, something we
watched as a teenager that spoke

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to us, not necessarily like
classic Movies, not necessarily

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the movies.
We would normally talk about on

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this podcast and so all next
season, we're just going to go

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through one by one on our lists
and re-watch these movies that

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were significant to us in the
past and see if they hold up and

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that meant that we kind of had
to rearrange some stuff.

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So we decided to drop one movie
out of our season for line up

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and plug in The Lord of the
Rings.

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The Return of the King as our
finale here Brad.

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I don't know what I'm more
pumped for season fives lineup,

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which is going to be really fun.
Through or getting to talk about

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Return of the King, you know, a
couple months earlier than we

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had planned.
Well, I'm a sucker for immediate

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Pleasures.
So I'm going to vote for Return

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of the King Bob.
Well then, let's jump into it,

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man.
You know, obviously we have both

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watched these movies 100 times,
like I was obsessed with the

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Lord of the Rings movies, when I
was a teenager, I had not

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Revisited Return of the King in
a really long time, and I have

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lots of thoughts, but Brad, I I
guess I want to hear even before

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we jump into Brad explains what
are your kind of immediate

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takeaways from this watch
through of Return of the King?

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Well this is a watch through
where I sat down with the

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extended version and I just keep
doing that.

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You gotta stop watching the
extended ones man they're so

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long now.
I will say that the this is

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actually something cool to me
about the extended edition.

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The entire runtime for the
Regular movie is like three

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hours and 21 minutes.
The runtime for the extended is

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4 hours and 23 minutes.
Yeah.

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Now one might normally say that,
wow, Brad that's like 62 minutes

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longer than the regular edition.
It is not Bob, there is about 20

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plus minutes, I clocked it.
The runtime went like 401.

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So there's like 20 to 23 minutes
of credits for this movie, which

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like, at first glance is like,
whatever hard pass.

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Yeah.
Yeah, hard pass, but on the

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second thought.
First off, Howard.

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Shores, music plays the whole
time and it's phenomenal.

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Second off, it's just cool to
think about the fact that 20

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minutes worth of names, hundreds
and hundreds, and probably over

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a thousand names.
Worked on this Trilogy this

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project.
It is one of the most special

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movie trilogies of all time and
as epic and crazy.

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Long as the series is it just
felt like it deserved an

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epically long credit sequence.
Yeah, I thought that was pretty

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neat so your immediate
Impressions were they had great

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closing credits.
Yeah, man.

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All right, cool.
Got it, honestly, one of my one

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of my immediate takeaways was,
you know, I genuinely like the

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extended editions more but I
think I'm going to stick with

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the a trickle from here on out.
I just don't have this much time

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in my life.
I was gonna say you're a dad

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now.
Like this there's no way you

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have about 4 plus hours.
At a time, dude.

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I think that this movie is an
example of catharsis Done,

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Right?
Hmm.

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Like I know a lot of people talk
about how great it is when a

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movie ends with a cliffhanger
and it forces you to think about

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the world and the Darkness in
your soul, and you know, all

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those like fine and dandy things
to say.

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But this movie goes the exact
opposite route.

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It gives you every single moment
of like, oh yeah, the Shire.

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Oh man.
The fellowship is reunited, I'll

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Gandalf is so cool.
I like salmon Rosie.

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Like you get all of the moments
one after another and I just I

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just love it man.
I think this is one of the few

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movies where the cheesy
catharsis, you know, moments.

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They could just keep on coming
and I be 100% happy.

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Yeah, I will say, man.
Like I'm going to have nitpicks

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about this movie.
The multiple endings are not one

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of my dad picks.
I have never found that this

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movie.
Had too many endings and

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especially after investing 9. +
H in these characters, it's good

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to see that they each get the
send-off that they deserve.

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And so like you're not going to
get any, you know, 18 year old

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hot takes.
For me about this movie has too

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many endings.
I actually think the ending is

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pretty much perfect.
Yeah, I'm right there with you,

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when when Frodo and Sam are
laying there and, well, first

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off, when Frodo, can't see the
Shire anymore.

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And that, that transition from
Sam, And the hopeful uplifting

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music as he talks about the
Shire, trying to like cast

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vision and hope for Frodo.
Hitman Pro totus, shuts him

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down, like a peanut butter stout
to a child's dreams.

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Like it's made so dark and then
but that sets you up there

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laying there the the lavas
flowing around him and Frodo

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goes I could see it Sam.
I can see the springtime in the

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Shire and you're like oh my God
Frodo.

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Get to see the Shire again.
I can see the shine light party,

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train Rosie.
She had ribbons in her hair.

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I was to marry someone It would
have been our.

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It's so it's so damn good.
I want to take bets on each

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other real quick over under.
How many times do you think I

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cried during this movie?
How many times do I think you

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cried during this movie?
Oh, that's a.

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That's a good question.
I will change.

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I'm gonna put the over-under for
you at two and a half?

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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I think I was at three.
I think it was a It was I can't

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carry it for you but I can carry
you.

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That one got me.
Yeah man my friends you bow to

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no one gets me every single
time, dude and then and then

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Frodo's goodbye.
And actually the moment that

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gets me at Frodo's.
Goodbye it isn't when he says

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goodbye to Sam.
It's when he hugs Mary and they

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leave the camera on Dominic
Monaghan as face as he hugs

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Frodo.
Goodbye.

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And it's like such a genuine
emotion.

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Actually, you know what?
I might have had a With 12 and

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just now that I'm thinking about
it it's a when Merry and Pippin

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are split up and they don't know
if they're ever gonna see each

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other again because Billy Boyd
and Dominic Monaghan, they're

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fantastic together.
Their chemistry with each other

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is insane and like when they get
divided up and you watch I think

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it's Pippin right away and
marries talking about how he

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doesn't know if he's ever going
to see him again I choked up a

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little bit there too.
Yeah man I you are 100% correct

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Billy and Dominic I love what
they do with these movies and I

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think that like when you look at
the movies as a whole when you

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have so many stinkin characters
to care about, they almost have

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to have their own little sub
movies that are going on.

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And so you get that with with
Aragorn and Aon you get that

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00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,300
with Aon and Mary and with merry
and Pippin and Gandalf in Pippin

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00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:51,700
and you get all these little
moments where the way these

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00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:54,800
characters interact.
With one another reveals who

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they are as people as Hobbits as
elves dwarves.

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And I just think that Billy and
Dominic just knock it out of the

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00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,800
park as like best friends who
grow as human beings together

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00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,700
through a terrible conflict.
All right, I'm going to put your

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00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:16,900
over-under at one point five
because you are more heartless

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00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,500
than me but you're not totally
heartless.

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00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:21,900
So I know this movie.
Got you twice.

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00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,000
Probably.
Bob, I didn't cry single time in

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00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,200
this this feeling.
I hate you so much, dude.

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00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:30,100
I'm sorry, man.
Aye aye!

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00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:34,800
I genuinely don't often cry at
movies that you know the last

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00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,900
movie that got me to cry.
This might make you a little bit

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00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:39,800
happier.
What's that was children of man?

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00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,000
Really?
Yeah when she was having her

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00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,400
baby.
Yeah yeah I lost it because I

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00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,000
was like I've been there too
like it's so beautiful.

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00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,800
It is so beautiful.
And like you get sucked into the

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00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:55,800
The world.
And if everyone wasn't able to

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00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,500
have babies like then my little
Sadie wouldn't have been born

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00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,000
and that like that cause me to
cry.

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00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,200
Yeah, I get it.
So so I think the bar has been

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00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:10,800
rare raised a little bit from
like you bow to no one to my

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00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,300
baby.
Possibly couldn't have been

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00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,500
born.
I was gonna say a catastrophic

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00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:17,300
event and a miraculous birth.
That's like the only thing that

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00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:19,100
will get you.
Yeah, man.

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00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:22,800
Bryce type stuff.
Well, let's get into Brad.

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00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,500
It's, this is the part of the
podcast where Brad breaks down

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00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:28,400
the movie that he has just seen
often for the first time.

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00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,400
This is very obviously not
Brad's first time seeing the

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00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,100
Return of the King.
But Brad, the real challenge for

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00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:37,600
you is that you only have 60
seconds to try to break down

260
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,700
everything that happens in this
movie, for our listeners.

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00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:43,400
So can you do it man?
Can you give it to us in a

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00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,200
minute or less easily Bob are
gone kicks ass Gandalf takes

263
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,600
names Frodo tosses the ring in
the fire.

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00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,400
Boom the end.
That was not exactly Bob.

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00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,000
That's all I'm saying, man.
Yeah, let's just stop there.

266
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,800
This movie, if you haven't seen
it by now, go watch it.

267
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:07,200
It's one of the greatest movies
of all time, along with the

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00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,800
other two movies in the trilogy.
So you haven't seen any of them.

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00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,600
Go watch the whole doggone
thing.

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00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,400
I'll take a full 60 seconds just
to encourage you to go watch

271
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,400
these movies if you have seen
them, then you know what I'm

272
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,800
talking about?
And I think my summary is this

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00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,300
Ain't enough for you.
I like it, man.

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00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:26,800
Let's move on.
We have more things to talk

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00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,200
about.
I'm gonna offer my first hot.

276
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,000
Take here Brad.
I think this might be the worst

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00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,400
of the three.
Oh, yeah, and I'm really

278
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,300
surprised to say that because I
always thought Fellowship was

279
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:39,500
the worst of the three.
And if you go back and listen to

280
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:42,500
our fellowship episode, like I
had a lot of what I think are

281
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:46,000
very legitimate, complaints
about some of the camera moves

282
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,400
and things that they had in
quite polished up yet.

283
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,300
You can really tell that even
though all three of these movies

284
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:54,200
were shot at the same time, So
that by the time, the third one

285
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,800
came around, the studio was
pumping more money into the

286
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,500
post-production.
Like this one looks better than

287
00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:03,200
all three of them.
I think the CGI holds up better

288
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,400
from this one than any of the
other two.

289
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,599
And and so like you have this
really pristine looking film,

290
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000
but I came away from it saying
like yeah, this is probably like

291
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:18,400
a close to Perfect movie, but it
felt the least Lord of the Rings

292
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,300
e to me.
And I think it might be the

293
00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:22,800
worst one.
Yeah, I mean I remember when we

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00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:27,700
When we reviewed the Fellowship
of the Ring that you commented

295
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:31,900
that you just get a little bit
bogged down in the story a

296
00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:36,300
little bit much.
I think that happens in this one

297
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,700
because honestly at this point I
feel like a lot of trilogies

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00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:44,000
that do that do.
Well, they establish the world

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00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,000
in the first story.
The second one, they deepen the

300
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,200
tension and put the heroes in
some sort of unwinnable.

301
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,000
Fight.
And then in the third one you

302
00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:03,100
have a Triumph Triumph you have
a Triumph of good over evil,

303
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:05,600
right.
And in this one, do you have

304
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,300
that?
And it's beautiful and amazing,

305
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,200
but you also still have massive
Lord dumps just throughout the

306
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,000
entire movie.
You're like, yeah, there's these

307
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,900
ghosts under the the mountain
and they, they broke their vow,

308
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,800
long time ago.
And, and here we are, you got

309
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:26,400
Get'em Aragorn.
And like, they just spend so

310
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,400
much time with the lore and, and
don't get me wrong.

311
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,800
Bob, I could talk to you for
three hours straight without you

312
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:38,700
mentioning a single syllable
about Lord of the Rings and, and

313
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,700
just not lose steam.
So, I love the lore of Lord, of

314
00:18:41,708 --> 00:18:43,500
the Rings.
Like, if you want to start

315
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:46,000
talking about Tom Bombadil, we
can go at it.

316
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:50,000
Silmarillion podcast next week.
Yeah, next week, we're starting.

317
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,800
So it's going to be silmarillion
and Warm ale.

318
00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:58,700
All right.
So I let me jump in and say this

319
00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:00,300
though.
Yeah, okay.

320
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:03,200
I think the thing that really
stood out to me about this one

321
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,600
and I'm trying to figure out how
to word it so that I don't get

322
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,100
misconstrued.
But the note that I kept taking

323
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:13,500
is that this is the least fun of
the three movies and I don't

324
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:17,400
mean by that that like it has
the least, you know, the fewest

325
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,300
number of light-hearted moments.
It has the fewest gags because

326
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:22,500
it definitely does.
It's much more serious than the

327
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:25,300
other.
Our, but even like the film,

328
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:30,300
making the emphasis is elsewhere
with this movie, compare it to

329
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,000
the two towers.
I think that one has very

330
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,700
similar themes, I think they're
starting to feel the heaviness

331
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:37,700
of the Ring.
The the friendships are starting

332
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:40,100
to get fractured a little bit.
The paranoia starting to creep

333
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:43,500
in the dread.
The the insurmountable odds are

334
00:19:43,508 --> 00:19:46,300
starting to stack against them.
So I think the comparison

335
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:50,900
between the two movies is there,
but the style of filmmaking of

336
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:55,500
Two, Towers is much more of a
Almost like a swashbuckling kind

337
00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:56,300
of thing.
You know what I mean?

338
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,800
Like, it's really adventurous
and you feel the propulsion of

339
00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:01,900
Our Heroes, doing what they need
to do.

340
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:05,100
And it's a fun ride even though
there are some heavier moments

341
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:07,900
in it.
And this one for better or

342
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,700
worse.
I think Peter Jackson really

343
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,800
shies away from giving you
moments of like of just fun.

344
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,000
It's so like take the big battle
in front of the city of

345
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,400
ministereth.
It's called The Battle of

346
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,300
pelennor fields in scale.
Is even larger than the battle

347
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:28,300
we had in the second one.
And yet, I didn't really feel a

348
00:20:28,308 --> 00:20:31,100
sense of like it was a very
compelling to me.

349
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,700
And the way that battle ends is
like, with all these, ghosts

350
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:36,600
soldiers, coming and just wiping
everything out in, like, 20

351
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,300
seconds.
So, I think there are things

352
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:44,200
about this movie that while you
really do, get a sense of the

353
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,300
human element of the movie.
And I think that's really wise

354
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:50,800
on Peter Jackson's part, like,
he leans in to look at the toll.

355
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,700
This is taking on people.
He does it at the expense of

356
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:59,100
giving you like really really
classic swashbuckling kind of

357
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:01,100
elements scattered throughout
the movie.

358
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,200
Yeah, I mean the you know the
Battle of Helm's Deep is

359
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,600
supposed to have like 10,000
Iraq, I ready to fight the

360
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,900
battle of the pelennor fields is
supposed to be a hundred

361
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:13,800
thousand plus or works.
Like, it's supposed to be the

362
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,400
greatest force that has ever
been seen.

363
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,200
And I do think that this is one
of the few departures from the

364
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,800
books that I dislike that Peter
Jackson did because and this I

365
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,200
don't know.
Stick with me for a second here,

366
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,700
but like in the books, Aragorn
does go underneath the mountain

367
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,500
and get the, the army of the
dead.

368
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,300
But what he does with them, is
he goes to the ships that these

369
00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:43,200
Pirates have and essentially, he
frees the slaves that are, that

370
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,600
are like, rowing these ships
that they've taken from Gondor

371
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,700
and Rohan, and all these other
places, and it's that army of

372
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:58,500
slaves and that Army of people
that reinforce Gondor at the end

373
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,800
of the battle and helped turn
the tide.

374
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,100
And there's something about that
story, that that is much more

375
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:12,500
compelling to me of one of
Aragorn as a as a freeing

376
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:17,100
emancipator that swoops in to
save the day more so than like

377
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:20,300
an invincible Unstoppable.
Army of the Dead.

378
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,700
Yeah, that just like wipes the
field.

379
00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:25,400
That, I think that if they had
stuck with the book in that

380
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,800
area, yes, it would have been
harder because you have to like

381
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,400
at least show him freeing
somebody to show this idea of a

382
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:38,400
priority, but there's something
about that that just hits it, it

383
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,900
hits home, a little bit more
deeply than does what they

384
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:45,900
showed and you're right Bob you
you lose some of that personal

385
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,600
connection to the people
fighting in the battle.

386
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,700
And that's that's an unfortunate
thing because when you consider

387
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,800
It Lord of the Rings.
Is this epically large story.

388
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,500
That is incredibly intimate and
its performance.

389
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:05,100
Yeah and so when you lose those
intimate moments, it causes the

390
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,800
film to suffer well.
And I also think that this is a

391
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,000
victim of the fact that there
are just so many characters to

392
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,800
follow.
Now like every time they go to a

393
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,100
new city, you meet like the
entire government of that City.

394
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,300
So you have all these people
getting folded into the mix here

395
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,100
and it really, you know, it kind
of becomes hard to keep Track of

396
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,400
all of them and what their
motivations are and you know who

397
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,300
they're in love with and things
like that.

398
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,800
And so I do think that the sheer
amount of things they have to

399
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,800
enter cut throughout this movie.
Really does kind of take away

400
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,100
from the movie a little bit to
the point where really crucial

401
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:40,600
members of that original
Fellowship.

402
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,600
The nine are barely in the
movie, like, Gimli and Legolas

403
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,300
are hardly in this movie and I
know you watch the extended

404
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:48,700
version.
But I'm telling you man, like

405
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:51,800
there are large swaths of this
movie.

406
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:57,000
R Frodo and Sam disappear for 30
minutes at a time and then, you

407
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,800
know, you watch Aragorn making
preparations for battle or

408
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,700
talking with Aon or longing for
Arwen and his two buddies aren't

409
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:06,700
there either.
And so you get to the end of the

410
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,100
movie and it kind of feels like
some of these members of the

411
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,700
fellowship that you've really
been sticking it out with here,

412
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,500
got shafted, because they're
making so much room for people,

413
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:19,000
like denethor the steward of
Gondor.

414
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:23,000
And I think it really takes away
from, you know, I think the

415
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,500
audience some more time with
these people that they really,

416
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,100
really like.
All right, let's let's talk

417
00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:30,700
about data for denethor for a
second, Bobby ready.

418
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,100
Let's do it, man.
So I have a few rules for film

419
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:36,900
and whiskey Nation, rule number
one.

420
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,900
Anytime Bob refers to an actor,
chewing scenery overacting

421
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,700
anything like that.
You have to think about denethor

422
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,500
in this performance.
Because this, this is the

423
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:53,900
textbook definition Of
overacting.

424
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:55,600
Am I right?
Oh, my gosh, man.

425
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,800
Like that was the first note I
took was wow, this facial.

426
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,600
Twitching is really over the
top.

427
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,100
Yeah.
And like it.

428
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,100
I don't want to say, it doesn't
work for the movie because I

429
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:10,900
think that it creates a very
convincing picture of a Madman

430
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:14,800
so it's not as if overacting
doesn't work.

431
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,500
I just don't know if it adds a
massive amount to the movie, it

432
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:22,400
doesn't add as much as the actor
thought it would.

433
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,800
At the Released.
So I do think it takes away

434
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,200
though.
I like or how did you phrase it?

435
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:29,700
It's not that it doesn't work, I
do think it doesn't work.

436
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,400
I think he's terrible and it's
one of those things that you

437
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,000
don't really notice unless
you're watching it for this

438
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,300
podcast, we're like trying to
find things to be critical

439
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:40,500
about.
So like I think you could go

440
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:44,000
through the movie and not pay
attention to how over the top.

441
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,200
This man is because at the end
of the day, we're watching

442
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,100
people pretend to fight CGI
trolls and stuff.

443
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:52,600
You know what I mean?
Like, they're all over.

444
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:56,700
Acting because that's the nature
of this movie, but I think we've

445
00:25:56,700 --> 00:26:00,800
gotten used to a certain level
of acting from all of the people

446
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,400
involved, you know, even Phaeton
and eowyn and all those people

447
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,300
from Rohan.
Like, they know what's up?

448
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:10,200
They understand the assignment
and my boy denethor just rolls

449
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,000
in here and is like, he looks
like he's getting exercised of a

450
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,700
demon half the time.
Like his face is just shaking

451
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:20,900
and when he is in his right
mind.

452
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:25,500
He's so like, It seems like he
just watched The Lion King a

453
00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:28,100
couple times and was like, yes
car Jeremy Irons.

454
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:30,400
I got it.
Like I'm gonna lean into that.

455
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,400
It's so over-the-top.
And honestly even the way that

456
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,300
they try to make his character
have some sort of significance

457
00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:40,800
on the plot.
It just felt very shoehorned in

458
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:42,900
and I'm sure Again Brad in the
books.

459
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:45,900
Like he probably plays some sort
of major role, I have no idea,

460
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:50,400
but the whole way that they set
up his son getting wounded in

461
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,900
battle and then coming back the
You know, they bring his

462
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,400
apparently lifeless body back
into the City and denethor is

463
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,900
convinced that he has killed his
son.

464
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,700
And so he kind of goes mad and
he wants to be burned on a pyre

465
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:06,500
with his dead son, and it is,
it's very obvious that his son

466
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,200
is not dead.
Like, he's just kind of rolling

467
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,500
around on the floor, like, hey,
what's going on and breathing

468
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,000
and, and Pippins go.
And hey, look, he's alive, he's

469
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,500
alive.
I think the geography of that

470
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:19,000
whole sequence, doesn't it just
didn't work for me.

471
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,600
Like denethor is, is apparently
So out of his mind that he won't

472
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,200
listen to anyone telling him
like, Hey, look, your son's eyes

473
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800
are open and he's eating a
sandwich like right there, you

474
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,900
know, and he's like no and he
throws Pippen out and gets up on

475
00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:36,900
the pyre and dumps oil on
himself.

476
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:41,200
And none of that sequence worked
for me and and it ends with

477
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,100
Gandalf riding in on his horse
his horse, just booting, the guy

478
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:50,400
in the face so hard that he
lands up on the pyre and burns

479
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,500
alive.
And if you watch that sequence,

480
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:54,900
Brad.
Like, you can see that the stunt

481
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:58,000
actor gets pretend hit in the
face by this horse.

482
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,700
And instead of falling up onto
the pyre, you see him jump off

483
00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:06,600
of his feet because they because
this like bonfire is so high off

484
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,400
the ground.
He can't just fall back on to

485
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,900
it.
So he has to jump up and into

486
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:13,600
the fire it.
Like nothing about denethor

487
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,900
worked for me.
And it really took away from the

488
00:28:15,908 --> 00:28:17,100
movie.
Yeah.

489
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:20,600
I mean, I think that's that's
the big problem is like, how do

490
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,400
you convey Madness?
Very well.

491
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:27,200
For me that there's supposed to
be conveying, this idea that

492
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:32,100
denethor has been looking into a
secret palantir, which is the

493
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,800
orb that Pippin has the drives,
him kind of crazy a little bit

494
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,600
and that it has driven him mad
because he's watched Sauron,

495
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,900
build up his forces and he knows
there's no way to beat 100,000

496
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:50,000
Orcs, And so he's gone mad.
And he I think that the thing

497
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,700
that they're trying to portray
is that he knows.

498
00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:53,200
His son is alive.
Live.

499
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:57,800
He wants to be a martyr.
He wants to be seen as you know

500
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:03,900
as this tragic figure with his
son more than he actually wants

501
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:08,400
to live at this or he wants his
son to live so that that for me

502
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,200
kind of worked but I mean you're
100% correct van.

503
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,000
The dude was the dude was
ridiculous.

504
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:15,900
Yeah.
And I think the other problem is

505
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:20,300
that when you compare him to the
other king figure of the movie

506
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,000
Theoden played by Bernard him,
All it's comparing apples and

507
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,200
oranges Bernard Hill, knocks it,
out of the freaking Park in this

508
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,700
movie.
Oh, he's so good.

509
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,900
And, and part of it is, his
character is so good.

510
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:38,200
He's he's constantly conflicted.
He's constantly confronted with

511
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,700
his own foul ability and I think
that there are a lot of times

512
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:44,300
we're in the second and third
movie.

513
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:47,900
If you're strictly comparing him
to Aragorn and all the heroic

514
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:50,600
things Aragorn does, then you
can see that they had in his

515
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,400
kind of a coward.
But what I love about thetas

516
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,600
character is he is
representative of how easily

517
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,400
swayable how easily, you know,
mistake-prone and fallible.

518
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,800
Humans are like that is part.
That's one of the major themes

519
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,400
of The Lord of the Rings is the
age of men is Dawning again.

520
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,000
But like they don't have a king
to lead them and Phaeton is kind

521
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,200
of grappling with the fact of
like I am a very flawed person

522
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,800
and I have made some really
grave mistakes and I recognize

523
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,300
that this Aragorn, who's going
to take a throne that isn't mine

524
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:28,700
but that's, you know, rising up
at the same time that I'm King

525
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,900
is all of the things that I'm
supposed to be as king and and

526
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,400
falling short of.
And so I really love the way

527
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,400
that they allow Bernard Hill to
play that character because he

528
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,000
has all the regrets.
But he also by the, by the time

529
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,100
he dies, he's really come to
terms with the fact of like I

530
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:52,000
did the best.
I could I made mistakes and I

531
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,900
feel 10th.
Knowing that there's someone

532
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,500
coming after me, who's going to
do a much better job than I did.

533
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,100
It's a really beautiful
character Arc.

534
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,500
Yeah, I mean, there's just a
certain nobleness to the

535
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,500
character of Theoden and like
you said, Bob he just has so

536
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:10,200
many flaws and yet he continues
to do the right thing and I

537
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,500
think that's what's so
compelling about a character,

538
00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,200
like they Odin and the
performance that Bernard Hill

539
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,400
gave it is that we all know the
struggle of being a human being,

540
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,500
we all know the struggle of
doing the right thing.

541
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:25,400
In the face of all the
Temptations that the world has

542
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,100
to offer us but it is admirable
and Noble to continually do the

543
00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:32,200
right thing in the face of your
flaws.

544
00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:36,200
And that like that, it's places
like that we're Lord of the

545
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,700
Rings just shines.
Well, and I will say that this

546
00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:43,700
one has the best performances of
the whole trilogy, but the

547
00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:45,400
reason it has the best
performances is that.

548
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,900
It also has the best script like
this script, really sets these

549
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:52,500
actors up for success by having
by far the best dialogue.

550
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,800
Log and also by building in
these moments that allow actors

551
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,700
to act.
I feel like in the first two

552
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:02,700
movies there's a there's a lot
of exposition dumps and a lot of

553
00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:05,800
the acting performances are just
trying to make you buy into the

554
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,100
premise of these movies.
Whereas this one it's like, hey,

555
00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:12,800
we're going to lean really
heavily into displaying the

556
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,700
toll.
This is taking on you and

557
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:17,900
everyone's tired, and everyone's
paranoid, everyone's being

558
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:20,500
tempted by the ring, and you're
all going to be crying all the

559
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:23,100
time.
And all the Actors in this

560
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:26,700
movie, except for denethor knock
it out of the freaking Park,

561
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:29,400
like it really.
I think one of the things that

562
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,100
bothers me most about this movie
and the way it was received by

563
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:35,900
the public, is that this movie
gets nominated for 11?

564
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:41,300
Oscars, it wins all of them, it
is a clean sweep and it had no

565
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:43,500
acting nominations.
Do you know what I mean?

566
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:49,500
Like, I understand that the
Ensemble is so big that they

567
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:51,700
probably weren't going to get a
nomination just because it's

568
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:54,700
hard to find like Like a token
person to nominate from this

569
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,600
group, but I mean, come on, like
in McKellen.

570
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,600
Elijah Wood, something like just
Vigo somebody throw somebody in

571
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,500
there because they were all
worthy of being recognized for

572
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:06,600
their performances.
Yeah, I mean, I think you can

573
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:12,100
easily throw Ian or Elijah in
for best actor, even V go to a

574
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:14,100
point.
And then I, like, I think you

575
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,800
could throw any of those three
in for supporting actor.

576
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,000
Like, like all of them play such
beautiful lead and yet

577
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,500
supporting roles in the movie.
She it easily could have gotten

578
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:28,400
two or three more nominations
for acting roles.

579
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,100
Well, I want to keep talking
about these performances Brad,

580
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:32,700
but I think it's time we press
pause.

581
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:34,900
We have a momentous occasion
today.

582
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,500
We're going to be drinking Pappy
Van Winkle, a peanut butter.

583
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:40,300
Stout?
The peanut butter stout.

584
00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:42,400
We're switching it up on you,
folks.

585
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,300
What do you say?
We tried this Pappy.

586
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,800
Let's get to it.
Bob

587
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,100
All right, everybody, it is.
The moment we have been building

588
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:31,500
to on this podcast for for
freaking Seasons.

589
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:36,000
We are finally doing it.
Brad, I don't know how in the

590
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,900
hell we were able to get our
hands on this but we are trying

591
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,900
Pappy.
Van Winkle 15-year today.

592
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,400
Robert, this is the moment that
like we're done after this,

593
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,100
we've arrived or four.
Reasons it just worked out

594
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:54,699
perfectly that it landed on our
final movie, the season, we're

595
00:34:54,699 --> 00:34:58,900
done after this, this filming
whiskey podcast is over, so fill

596
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:01,000
in whiskey Nation.
As you can tell, I have a bit of

597
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,800
a cold, and I'm going to go
ahead and spoil something for

598
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,300
you.
On the production side of

599
00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:07,600
things, we actually tried the
whiskey.

600
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,900
Before we sat down today,
obviously, we are still very

601
00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:15,400
much poor and not able to afford
our own bottle of Pappy Van

602
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,800
Winkle.
However, we tried Pappy 15, when

603
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,200
we went to record, On location
with our friends at crafted

604
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,200
cocktail company, they had a
bottle of Pappy 15.

605
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,900
It was the last poor.
We had that day, we wanted to do

606
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:30,500
something big to celebrate at
our friend, Scott's our

607
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:34,900
absolutely hooked us up with the
Pappy, we could not have tried

608
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,600
this, if it wasn't for crafted
Cocktails.

609
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,500
So, first of all, our friends
Scott, I want to say thank you

610
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,400
for carrying such a great
selection of Whiskey's at your

611
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,200
bar.
Yeah, crafted cocktail is

612
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,500
literally the coolest place in
Northeast Ohio.

613
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,500
So if you are ever traveling
through the Area.

614
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:55,700
If you live anywhere within an
hour of Wadsworth Ohio, you need

615
00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:58,400
to get your butt on down to
crafted cocktail and check it

616
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,500
out.
Because Scott is just knocking

617
00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:06,200
it out of the park over there.
So, yes, Scott, you are a true

618
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,100
gentleman and a scholar.
So we thank you.

619
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:11,700
So, before we dive into this
Brad, I do think we should give

620
00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:15,000
a little bit of background on
Pappy Van Winkle because this

621
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,400
stuff has developed such a
reputation over the last.

622
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,700
Go ahead.
I like that.

623
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:23,000
You say, I like that you say we
are going to give background

624
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,300
information as if I'm going to
give any background information.

625
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,700
As if you have done any research
at all.

626
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,300
Yeah like it's very obvious at
this point of the podcast that

627
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,300
you have done the background
research.

628
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:39,000
So Bob why don't you tell us
about Pappy Van with 15?

629
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:39,500
Damn.
Right.

630
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:43,500
I will bread.
All right, so not to get too far

631
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:45,300
in the weeds here.
I want to keep this kind of

632
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:47,500
surface level.
If you want to really nerd out

633
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,400
about Pappy, you can do a deep
dive.

634
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:52,800
We're looking at here is a
product that is produced by

635
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,300
Buffalo Trace and it is produced
with the same general Mash bill

636
00:36:57,300 --> 00:36:59,800
that they use to produce Weller.
We've talked about that in the

637
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,100
past how if you blend certain
kinds of the Weller line of

638
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:06,200
products, it kind of
approximates the flavor or so

639
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,300
people say of Pappy Van Winkle.
So what separates Weller from a

640
00:37:11,308 --> 00:37:14,100
Pappy Van, Winkle is the
selection process.

641
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,600
It's the history of the brand.
It's the age statement that you

642
00:37:17,607 --> 00:37:19,900
get on the brand as well.
We're drinking the Young.

643
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:22,800
August Pappy Van Winkle today
which is 15 year.

644
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,700
Now they have one.
That's called Old, Rip Van

645
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,000
Winkle.
And they also have Van Winkle,

646
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,700
family reserve Rye but bearing
the name Pappy Van Winkle.

647
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:32,700
This is the youngest one at 15
years.

648
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:36,900
It goes all the way up in age to
a 23 year, old bourbon Brad, I'm

649
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:38,700
really interested.
If we ever get the chance to try

650
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:42,000
the Pappy 23 because it's
obviously the most expensive of

651
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,600
all of them having just had
Elijah, Craig, 18, a couple

652
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,800
weeks ago on the podcast, you
know, after a certain point

653
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:53,400
Bourbon just isn't that good if
you've left it in the barrel for

654
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,800
that long.
And I think even when we were

655
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,400
getting to, the 18 year mark,
without Elijah Craig, it was

656
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,700
really pushing the boundaries of
like, is this over oaked at this

657
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:04,500
point.
So we've heard people say that

658
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:08,500
Pappy 15 is the one to drink.
If you can try Pappy Van Winkle

659
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:12,500
and luckily for you, dear
listener we have tried Pappy.

660
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:14,300
Van Winkle 15.
Yeah.

661
00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:17,600
Luckily for you.
We've drink the whiskey.

662
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,200
You want to try.
That's right.

663
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,200
And we're going to tell You all
about it.

664
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,100
So Brad, let's just, let's just
be honest here.

665
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:27,600
I want to give my honest opinion
about Pappy.

666
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,100
I have been excited to try it
for the longest time.

667
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:33,000
I have been dreading trying it
for the longest time, because

668
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,700
everything we've ever said about
Buffalo, Trace it finds it, it

669
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:42,200
finds its peak here in Pappy.
Van Winkle, the overpricing the

670
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,400
allocation, the, the crazy,
chasing and hunting.

671
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,500
That goes on for this product is
just outrageous.

672
00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:51,800
And I feel like in some And
there's no way this could ever

673
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,700
really live up to the hype that
surrounds it.

674
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,000
Yeah, I mean, this would be like
watching Citizen Kane if it cost

675
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:06,600
you like $600 for a screening of
Citizen Kane, you know what I

676
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,500
mean?
Like this is like the crème de

677
00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:14,000
la crème of bourbon in the
bourbon hunting world and it

678
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,900
costs a butt ton of money to
get, you know, even a price of

679
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:21,300
admission it's honest.
E, like watching Citizen Kane.

680
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:23,100
Like there's so much hype around
it.

681
00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:25,700
There's so much.
Is this the greatest movie of

682
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:29,000
all time that like if it cost
you five hundred dollars to

683
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,400
watch Citizen Kane?
Every time you watched it you

684
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,000
would really be asking yourself
the question like man, like is

685
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,500
this movie really worth spending
all this money on and in the

686
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:41,900
same way I think Pappy Falls
along that vein.

687
00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:45,100
Now the reason Pappy built up
such a reputation is because for

688
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,700
a long time the product was
distilled at the old Stitch,

689
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:51,500
Soul Weller.
Which was then acquired by

690
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:53,700
Buffalo, Trace got folded into
Buffalo Trace.

691
00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:57,100
And then, of course, Buffalo
Trace is now owned by Sazerac

692
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,300
over the years.
Everything that was distilled at

693
00:40:00,308 --> 00:40:03,300
that old distillery has kind of
been used up, right?

694
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,700
Like after their 23rd, year of
being shut, down Pappy, 23 was

695
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:12,400
no longer made 100% with stencil
Weller product.

696
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:16,300
And so, what I've heard is that
newer stuff isn't quite as good

697
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:20,100
to stuff that's like 100%
Sazerac, made not quite as Good

698
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:22,600
as the older stuff.
Here's the thing guys, we did

699
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,100
the best.
We could, we're not not like

700
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:29,600
digging through the annals of
Pappy history so you know what?

701
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,300
But to that point though Brad it
might not be worth it anymore

702
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,300
and it may be a developed its
reputation based on how good the

703
00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:40,300
old stuff was and the newer
stuff may not be worth it at

704
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:41,700
all.
So I think it's time for us to

705
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:45,300
go ahead and dive in.
We took copious notes as we were

706
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:48,100
drinking this because we did not
want to let you guys down Brad

707
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:49,800
when it comes to the nose of
Pappy.

708
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,500
Fifteen, what were your
impressions honestly?

709
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:55,900
I think what was remarkable to
me.

710
00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:59,500
Was how subtle and soft the nose
was.

711
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,900
I mean there's some beautiful
wheat notes.

712
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:06,400
There's a ton of like, nice
soft, sweet vanilla there.

713
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,300
There was a little bit of like a
buttery feel to it for me.

714
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:14,200
Almost like a butterscotch, it's
an amazing nose.

715
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,200
It's I wouldn't even say
decadent there's just a lot of

716
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,700
really nice things going on
here.

717
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:21,500
I'd probably give it like a 9
out of 10.

718
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:25,100
You know, it's really funny that
you started off with the kind of

719
00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:28,300
soft subtle nodes because the
first note I took on the nose

720
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:31,200
was ethanol, like I actually
thought that alcohol really

721
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,900
jumped out of the glass on this
in a way, I wasn't expecting.

722
00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:37,800
So this actually clocks in at
107 proof which is the same as

723
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,600
well or antique.
But for me, the ethanol was much

724
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,300
more prominent on the nose than
it is on Weller antique.

725
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,500
I found this to be like a little
bit granier.

726
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:50,200
It had like a kind of musty
smell to it, which I think, you

727
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,900
know, is indicative of the fact
that it's been in the barrel. 15

728
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:54,600
years.
Like I definitely had that sort

729
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,100
of old saw Dusty note on it for
me.

730
00:41:57,300 --> 00:41:59,100
I got a lot of orange on this as
well.

731
00:41:59,100 --> 00:42:02,100
Orange Peel was pretty prominent
all the way throughout which is

732
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:04,200
something Brad that we also
picked up on Weller foolproof,

733
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,100
just a couple weeks ago.
So I think there's definitely

734
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:10,200
some similarities here to what
you got in those Weller lineups.

735
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,000
The disappointing thing for me
is that I don't know that I

736
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,000
picked up on anything that was
markedly different than Weller

737
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,200
or like markedly more complex.
So, I go into the This a little

738
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,000
bit apprehensive because again
like this is a 58 million dollar

739
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:32,200
whiskey at this point and like
it doesn't seem wildly better or

740
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,500
different than Weller.
So I'm actually only going to

741
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:36,300
give it an eight and a half on
the nose.

742
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:40,900
And then as we move into the
taste for this, it really jumps

743
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:44,200
from being kind of soft and
subtle into a much more

744
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,800
pronounced.
Bold Flavor, profile.

745
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:51,100
I feel like I'm getting a lot of
this just decadent butter.

746
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:57,300
It has Perfume like notes that
almost feel like a floral mixed

747
00:42:57,300 --> 00:43:00,900
with bits of grape.
And then once again, that butter

748
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:02,000
really just kind of comes
through.

749
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,100
It feels like a butterscotch, to
me, it's really great.

750
00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:08,500
There's a lot going on but I
think I'm going to stick it like

751
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:10,500
an 8 and a half out of ten on
The Taste.

752
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:13,100
Yeah, I'm actually also going to
be an 8 and a half on the taste

753
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,700
but I'm going to Echo and really
underscore your note of like

754
00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:21,600
butteriness because as I tasted
this and I gave it two or three

755
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:23,900
sips, Before I really took
notes.

756
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,100
I wrote down the word butter 4
times in my tasting notes here.

757
00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:29,900
That was the first thing that
jumped off to me.

758
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:32,300
Was, it's buttery.
And at first, it's really

759
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:36,900
buttery in the mouth feel, it's
a very oily, very, like creamy,

760
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:41,500
decadent heavy, whiskey, and
then, as you swallow it, like

761
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:44,300
not to go in to finish but like,
on the back end of the flavor

762
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,800
that sort of salted butter, note
actually came out a lot for me

763
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,300
like actually tasted like butter
as well.

764
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:53,400
Brad, I think if there's one
thing That I can say about this

765
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,800
whiskey that is just vastly
different from every other

766
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,400
whiskey we've ever had on the
show.

767
00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:02,800
I can see why people go crazy
over this because this is the

768
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,400
most rich decadent whiskey that
I think I've ever had.

769
00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:10,400
It's almost like when you get
like a piece of cake and you

770
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,400
know like when something is so
sugary that it almost like it

771
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,000
has that weird effect on your
tongue that it almost like numbs

772
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,400
your palate.
Like it has this weird.

773
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,000
He's for me, there's like a
sensation of like, this is so

774
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,500
sweet.
That it is like shocking.

775
00:44:23,500 --> 00:44:27,000
My palate right now and you can
only eat so much of it, right?

776
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,400
This is like that.
This is a whiskey that I took

777
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:34,600
one sip of and I will say like
it's not super complex but it's

778
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,600
so buttery and so rich and so
heavy and so oily that I was

779
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,800
like I'm good for a couple
minutes and I put it down.

780
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,600
Yeah and I came back to it a few
minutes later like you don't

781
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,100
even like you have to take
breaks between sits on this one.

782
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:52,000
Dude, for me, it's almost like,
you know, how you've been to

783
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,200
weddings.
And they're like, oh, we ended

784
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,100
up getting like a giant eagle
cake or a Kroger cake for

785
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:02,000
everyone, and it's like cheap
and good and I like I agree with

786
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,000
them.
I'm like, yeah, that's like

787
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,900
solid cake, you know, it's
wedding cake, it's fine but then

788
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:13,700
you go to like a like an actual
Bakery and you have like a

789
00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:20,400
high-end cassata cake or you
know, whatever it is like.

790
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,000
Have you ever had that
experience for life?

791
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,500
Oh my gosh, this cake is on the
next level to me.

792
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:31,100
That's kind of the experience.
I'm getting here where yes, I've

793
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:36,300
had decadent buttery type
Whiskey's before but this really

794
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:39,700
is like you just said, it's just
a different type.

795
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:45,000
It's just a different level of
explosion of buttery goodness.

796
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,200
I don't know how else to explain
it again.

797
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,900
I think I will make the
distinction though.

798
00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:51,200
It's not as complex as some
whiskies that we've had.

799
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,200
It's just, it's just much.
Heavier.

800
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,900
It's like when you, you know, if
you go to a brewery, you can get

801
00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:01,100
your like light weeded beer, or
you can get like the Imperial

802
00:46:01,100 --> 00:46:04,800
Stout Venice, that is the most
fulfilling thing.

803
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,200
You could possibly like an
oatmeal stout or something.

804
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:11,500
The know that I took on this was
this is the buttercream frosting

805
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:14,100
of whiskey.
I just think in every sense of

806
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:18,000
that term, it's really, really
dense and it's good.

807
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,800
You know what I mean?
I think it's a huge step up in

808
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,800
terms of like what it does on
the palette from Um, well or

809
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,900
antique even if it's not any
more complex flavor wise.

810
00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:30,800
So again it's only an eight and
a half for me, but the

811
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,700
experience of drinking it was,
was definitely something I

812
00:46:33,707 --> 00:46:35,600
haven't had before.
Yeah.

813
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,500
Well and you know we've gotten
through the nose in the taste

814
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:42,800
for me the finish it just keeps
the but the butterscotch train

815
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,100
going here.
You definitely get a lot more of

816
00:46:46,100 --> 00:46:50,600
the oak that you would expect
from a 15 year aged bourbon but

817
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,200
the oakiness I don't know, I
feel like a lot of times my

818
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,400
struggle with longer aged
Bourbons.

819
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,600
Is that the oakiness overpowers
every other flavor at the

820
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,300
finish?
That is not true.

821
00:47:02,300 --> 00:47:06,400
Here it sticks on that,
butterscotch, and gives you a

822
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,300
nice solid finish that lingers
for a while.

823
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:11,600
And like you said, Bob, I think
the beautiful thing about this

824
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,300
whiskey is you spend so much
money on it that it forces you

825
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:19,200
to slow down and enjoy it.
And so for me, I it's a 9 out of

826
00:47:19,207 --> 00:47:21,600
10 on the Finish.
It's just phenomenal.

827
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:23,700
Okay.
I think what I'm going to do is

828
00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:26,500
I'm going to amend my taste
score and I'm going to bump it

829
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:29,500
up to a nine just because of the
drinking experience being so

830
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:31,600
different than what we're used
to.

831
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,600
However I'm actually only going
to give the finish a 7 out of 10

832
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,400
and here's why I think you're
right in that like that

833
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,500
heaviness really kind of hangs
around but there's not like a

834
00:47:43,508 --> 00:47:47,200
ton of complexity that comes on
the Finish.

835
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,900
It's the same general notes that
you're used to if you've had a

836
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:54,000
well or antique it has that.
Tweeted bourbon character on the

837
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,100
finish and what's left behind on
your palate.

838
00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:59,900
It's a long finish and I think
that's to be commended where I

839
00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:02,400
really found it.
Lacking though, was that there

840
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,700
was like no chest burn on this
thing?

841
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:07,800
I actually wrote down.
This gives me a belly burn.

842
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,000
Not a chest burn.
I thought that like by the time

843
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,700
it reached my stomach, I was
like oh like this is again very

844
00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:16,500
heavy and I feel like the
alcohol is all sitting in my

845
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:21,100
stomach but it didn't really
make itself known kind of on the

846
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:24,200
way down.
That was a bummer for me because

847
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,500
it packed a punch until you
swallowed and then it really

848
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:31,300
wasn't there anymore.
And so if there is one thing I'm

849
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:33,600
really going to ding this
Whiskey on it's the finish.

850
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,400
So I'm just going to give it a 7
out of 10 there.

851
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,500
Well then we get into the
balance.

852
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:41,400
Like you said, Bob this is not
the most complex whiskey we've

853
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,800
had and honest, I'd say that by
a long shot.

854
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,000
You know, I think back to some
of the other btech, we've tried

855
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,900
and there's there are much more
complex Whiskey's out.

856
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:57,000
They're in this type of Market,
but really, I think that this is

857
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:03,000
a really solid balance of butter
and Oak little bits of spiciness

858
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,900
here, and there some nice
vanilla.

859
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:06,900
I think it's a well-balanced
whiskey.

860
00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:10,700
I'll give it an eight and a half
Brad before I give my my balance

861
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:13,400
score here.
I want to go back to last

862
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:14,800
season.
We finished out the year with

863
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,600
Thomas H handy, Sazerac Rye, a
Buffalo Trace, antique

864
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,000
collection product and it is to
this day.

865
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,300
I think the highest rated See
we've ever done on the show?

866
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,000
Yeah, dude.
It was a sample that was sent to

867
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,800
us by our friends Bourbon and
stuff.

868
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:31,100
And at the time they told me it
was a 20-18 version of the

869
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:33,900
bottle.
But the picture they sent me,

870
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,100
the specs on it were from the
2019 version and again, I don't

871
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:40,000
know how much that matters.
But like if I said 2018 and we

872
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,000
really drank 2019.
I apologize.

873
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,000
All that to say I was out at
crafted cocktail like three days

874
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,900
ago with a friend of show.
Mike Giles and we splurged and

875
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:54,000
split a poor Or of Thomas H
handy.

876
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:56,500
I was like, dude, it's the
highest one we've ever had on

877
00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:58,900
the show.
I love to treat you to this.

878
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,900
Like, let's early, you know, at
least let's split it down the

879
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:04,900
middle and we did and I gotta
tell you man, like Not only was

880
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:06,700
it not the best whiskey I've
ever had.

881
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,400
It was legitimately not good and
it was not worth $40.

882
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,700
Now, that could be like
something happened, to this

883
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:16,500
specific bottle, it wasn't like,
you know, the whiskey equivalent

884
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:21,500
of a skunked beer, but like the
wasn't complex at all.

885
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:25,400
And the nose had like, a very
faint kind of cat piss, smell to

886
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,700
it.
And, you know, Mike drank it and

887
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:30,600
he really was polite about it
and then I was like, wow, that

888
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,000
wasn't good at all and he was
like, yeah, I didn't like that.

889
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,200
We spent $40 on a poor and it,
you know, again this has nothing

890
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,100
to do with crafted cocktail, but
I asked Scott like what's going

891
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:45,500
on here and he basically said
for him, these higher end

892
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:49,100
Buffalo Trace products can
really really vary from bottle

893
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:51,600
to bottle and Brad that really
made me.

894
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,700
Consider like the way that we
recommended that be tech product

895
00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:59,500
because that sample, we had
maybe the best whiskey I've ever

896
00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:02,500
had in my life.
But this other bottle of the

897
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:05,700
same thing from the same year,
not good at all.

898
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,900
And so, I bring that to the
table here with Pappy because

899
00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:12,000
again, it's the same Distillery
or, you know, at least the same

900
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,400
manufacturer.
And I thought the balance here

901
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,500
was really good.
It was just buttery and decadent

902
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:21,500
as hell.
But I wonder like, did we get

903
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:24,200
the highwomen Rendered version
of this product or were we

904
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,300
sampling the lower end version
of this product and I hope for

905
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:32,000
our sake that the bottle we had
is like the worst Pappy you

906
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,900
could get.
And it can only go up from there

907
00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:35,600
because it was still really
good.

908
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,200
But I'm already kind of
dreading, like, how are we going

909
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,400
to recommend this bottle?
So I look at the balance.

910
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,900
I'm going to give it an eight
and a half again on balance,

911
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:48,300
really good, but it just isn't
approaching that upper echelon

912
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,900
of super complex Whiskey's that
we've had and looking.

913
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,500
Forward to our value and our
recommendations here Brad.

914
00:51:56,100 --> 00:51:57,500
I think this is where it gets
really dicey.

915
00:51:57,700 --> 00:52:00,800
Yeah.
I mean, Bob, you have said all

916
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,700
of the right words that like,
trigger a response in me towards

917
00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:09,600
Buffalo Trace, I, I just don't
get it.

918
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:15,400
Bob, the, that like, I feel like
I've spent this season of the

919
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,500
full moon whiskey podcast, just
ranting and raging about Buffalo

920
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:23,700
Trace.
Like if there's anybody to blame

921
00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:29,000
it's you Bob you put all these
whiskies in front of me so I'm

922
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:34,700
blaming you 100% but in addition
to that I just look at it and I

923
00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:36,900
don't know.
I'm going to turn over a new

924
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:41,500
Leaf Bob and season 5.
I'm going to be a more positive.

925
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,400
I want to bring a good energy
into the world but for now I'm

926
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,600
just going to be exasperated at
the end of this season and say,

927
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,000
I don't get it.
It, I don't understand the hyper

928
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,900
on Buffalo Trace, like I've said
before, I've had some of their

929
00:52:57,900 --> 00:52:59,500
be Tech stuff.
It's good.

930
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,300
Like they make good whiskey, but
especially when you consider

931
00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:06,900
what you just said, Bob of like
this high-end btech can be

932
00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:11,300
really great or really bad at
that point.

933
00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:17,500
I feel like Buffalo Trace is a
company that is preying on.

934
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:20,700
The people who don't know, a ton
about whiskey, heck they're

935
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:23,200
preying on people who do What
about whiskey?

936
00:53:23,500 --> 00:53:26,400
I just feel like.
I feel like it is an

937
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:32,900
inappropriate and frankly
immoral business model that they

938
00:53:32,900 --> 00:53:37,900
are just benefiting off,
nothing, and I'm tired of it.

939
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:41,300
Bob, I'm really frustrated but I
think Brad, I think for the

940
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:45,200
first time ever we should just
not give a value score because

941
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,500
like you're not, you're not
going to get this product at

942
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:50,500
retail.
Like there is a there's a bottle

943
00:53:50,500 --> 00:53:53,800
lottery in Ohio every year.
Here, but the allocation is so

944
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,100
tiny.
Like, if you get this at retail,

945
00:53:57,100 --> 00:54:00,100
like go play the Powerball
afterwards because I have a

946
00:54:00,100 --> 00:54:04,800
feeling like equal odds of that.
Like, if if you want a bottle of

947
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,700
Pappy, nothing we say is going
to deter you from getting a

948
00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:11,200
bottle of Pappy, if you want to
spend $2000 securing this

949
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,700
bottle.
God bless you.

950
00:54:12,700 --> 00:54:15,300
Like go for it, man.
I'm not going to give it a value

951
00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:17,700
score Brad because like the
alternative is just to give it a

952
00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:20,400
zero.
And I think values in the eye of

953
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,300
the beholder, if this is
something One.

954
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:24,300
You're going to get it.
Nothing I say is going to

955
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:27,100
convince you otherwise so my
final score is going to be out

956
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:28,200
of 40.
I don't know.

957
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,500
Are you okay with doing it that
way?

958
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,700
Heck yeah dude.
All right I mean it my score

959
00:54:32,700 --> 00:54:35,600
would go from being what it is
out of 42, what it is?

960
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,900
Out of 50.
So I'm coming out to are 33 out

961
00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:41,500
of 40.
Brad where are you coming out

962
00:54:41,500 --> 00:54:44,900
to?
I am at a 35 out of 40.

963
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,600
All right so we're coming up to
a 34 out of 40 which is

964
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,900
essentially an 85 out of 100 and
again that's just At scoring it

965
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:57,500
on the quality of the whiskey in
the bottle, this is fantastic.

966
00:54:57,500 --> 00:55:00,000
And it was a cool experience.
And I'm so grateful, we got to

967
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,000
try it.
But like, of course, I'm not

968
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,600
going to recommend this, you
know what I mean?

969
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,100
Like, I'm not going to suggest
that you go out looking for a

970
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:10,200
bottle of this or go to a bar
and try to find a poor of it.

971
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,800
Is it cool to do one time?
Absolutely.

972
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,400
And if you feel like dropping
50, 60 70 80 bucks on a poor of

973
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,600
this, go for it.
I'm not going to recommend it.

974
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:23,800
Yeah I'm not going to eat dude.
There and honestly, like, in the

975
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,500
future, if we are at a place and
somebody offers it to us and we

976
00:55:27,500 --> 00:55:30,500
want to do a review on it like,
yes, we will review it.

977
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,000
And I know I say, as I know, I
say that, like, it sounds like a

978
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,900
chore but honestly, there's a
part of me that I just sit here

979
00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:45,200
and I feel like an old man.
Bob, I'm a geezer, I'm ancient.

980
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,900
Just give me some Ancient
Ancient age by it is.

981
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:50,400
Alright, so those are our
thoughts on Pappy 15.

982
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:51,700
Again, we don't need to be
downers.

983
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:54,000
Here, I really like this
product.

984
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,400
I think that you can have an
enjoyable time drinking this

985
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,500
product.
I think that the hype is at

986
00:55:58,508 --> 00:56:02,500
least somewhat earned because it
is such a decadent Rich bourbon.

987
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,700
I see why people love it so
much.

988
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:07,300
So if you have different
thoughts than we do, we'd love

989
00:56:07,300 --> 00:56:10,100
to hear what you think of Pappy.
15, you can find us on our

990
00:56:10,100 --> 00:56:13,600
social media as again, reach out
to us at film Whiskey on

991
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:18,500
Facebook, Twitter or Instagram.
But really, the true All-Star

992
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,800
here is Scott's, our at craft a
cocktail, is it not Bob?

993
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:24,100
100%.
Yeah, so get out there, check

994
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:27,300
him out.
But for now, we don't recommend

995
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:30,700
Pappy, unless you're just going
to get it in which case go get

996
00:56:30,700 --> 00:56:33,900
it enjoy it.
But for now we want to get back

997
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:36,200
into Return of the King.
What not?

998
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,400
One of the greatest Trilogy
ending of all time.

999
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,700
So let's let's get back to it.
Bob, let's do it Brett.

1000
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:23,300
All right, that was Pappy Van
Winkle 15-year.

1001
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:26,700
Once again, thank you to our
friend Scott sour at crafted

1002
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:30,400
cocktail for giving us the
opportunity to try Pappy bread.

1003
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:34,100
I mean, I don't know that I ever
really anticipated that Four

1004
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:36,600
Seasons into this podcast.
You know, when we started that,

1005
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:38,300
we would be trying Whiskey's
like this.

1006
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,300
This is, It's been a fun ride
man, and we're clearly not done

1007
00:57:41,300 --> 00:57:44,000
yet, but I think once in a
while, it's good to just take

1008
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,600
stock of where you're at, it's
really cool that we got to

1009
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:47,600
drink.
Together.

1010
00:57:47,700 --> 00:57:51,600
Yeah. 100% dude.
You know I like I was reflecting

1011
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:56,900
tonight about the journey that
we've been on and the long path

1012
00:57:56,900 --> 00:58:00,900
that it's taken us to get here
and Bob I just, I'm so thankful

1013
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:02,400
to be doing this podcast with
you.

1014
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaking of long paths that it's
taken, the Lord of the Rings.

1015
00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:09,500
Am I right?
Am I right?

1016
00:58:09,500 --> 00:58:13,600
Dude, I said the other day.
We were we were discussing the

1017
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:17,900
question of replace every single
character but But one in a movie

1018
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:22,600
with Muppets and return to the,
the just, the Lord of the Rings

1019
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,100
came up in general, and they
were like, the travel montages

1020
00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:29,600
of the Muppets just like Bebop
in their way across the screen.

1021
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,900
Would be the greatest thing in
the world.

1022
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,000
That's funny.
I would I would want it to be

1023
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,000
Ian McKellen as the human and
everyone else.

1024
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,100
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it's a,
it's a classic Michael Caine

1025
00:58:41,100 --> 00:58:43,000
situation all over.
Yep, for sure.

1026
00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:46,100
All right man.
So just a few more notes before

1027
00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:48,100
we get into final.
Is I love that.

1028
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:50,600
They started.
This movie off the prologue to

1029
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,800
this movie is a flashback to how
Golem became Golem.

1030
00:58:55,900 --> 00:58:57,900
You know what I mean?
Are I guess how Smeagol became

1031
00:58:57,900 --> 00:59:02,100
Gollum but to start the movie
with a character that you think,

1032
00:59:02,100 --> 00:59:05,900
is kind of a minor character or
at least a supporting character,

1033
00:59:06,500 --> 00:59:09,700
it's a really bold move and I
think it really signals what

1034
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:12,700
Peter Jackson's trying to do
here because he's showing us

1035
00:59:12,700 --> 00:59:17,700
what happened to Smeagol not.
Just as a, as a Character study,

1036
00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:20,900
even though it is like, we
learned from a very early Point,

1037
00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:23,200
like you should not trust this
person and he's going to betray

1038
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:28,500
our two Heroes here.
But also, this is exactly what's

1039
00:59:28,500 --> 00:59:30,400
happening inside of Frodo right
now.

1040
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,300
And it's a thing that like, they
never really drove home.

1041
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:36,200
Well enough in Two Towers, if
I'm being honest, like, you kind

1042
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,600
of had some sense that the ring
was weighing on him.

1043
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,000
But I think in this movie, it
really becomes clear.

1044
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,700
Not just because they're all
backstabbing each other and

1045
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:47,500
crying all the time.
But because you have this This

1046
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:52,000
prologue where you see a hobbit,
get so obsessed with the ring

1047
00:59:52,100 --> 00:59:54,900
that he turns into this
monstrous creature and the

1048
00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:58,100
makeup the body horror elements
of him like transforming into

1049
00:59:58,100 --> 01:00:01,900
Golem are excellent.
It is like really unsettling to

1050
01:00:01,900 --> 01:00:05,500
start this movie this way, but I
think it's really necessary for

1051
01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:09,100
understanding why.
You know how much the ring is

1052
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:11,000
Weighing on Frodo?
Yeah, dude.

1053
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,200
The like you said, the makeup
transformation.

1054
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,900
I think Gollum is a million
times more.

1055
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,600
Terrifying in like the final
scene of him, crawling into the

1056
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,500
mountain, then he is.
Once he turns into Golem like

1057
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:28,200
that thing freaking haunted my
dreams as a child after I saw

1058
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,700
this although do you know what
it kind of looks like it looks a

1059
01:00:30,707 --> 01:00:38,500
little bit like if you shaved
Jim Carrey's Grinch today he has

1060
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:40,600
those weird.
Another clone see ya kind of

1061
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,400
looks like a deformed who it's
really interesting.

1062
01:00:44,100 --> 01:00:47,600
Yeah, it is really interesting,
the other thing that And I think

1063
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:52,100
about that opening sequence is
that I I'm afraid and I could be

1064
01:00:52,100 --> 01:00:56,900
wrong on this Bob but I'm afraid
that there is a whole generation

1065
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,900
of Marvel Cinematic Universe
fans out there that only know

1066
01:01:01,900 --> 01:01:06,500
Andy Serkis from his work in
those films which is phenomenal

1067
01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:09,500
because Andy Serkis is great in
everything that he does.

1068
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:12,900
But if you want to talk about
routes where like, where my boy

1069
01:01:12,900 --> 01:01:16,900
got his break, it was these
movies.

1070
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:23,000
And I think that him as Smeagol
The Hobbit before he becomes

1071
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,400
Gollum at all, I thought he just
killed it in that role and I

1072
01:01:27,408 --> 01:01:31,200
think it's so cool that like
they gave him that part.

1073
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,800
They let him act as the
character as well as you know

1074
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,000
put on the 3D suits and climb
around the set as Gollum like

1075
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,500
also I think we can disagree
Andy Serkis got much more

1076
01:01:44,500 --> 01:01:48,500
attractive as he got older.
Do you didn't do didn't look

1077
01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:52,300
great when he was in his late
30s, early 40s for this movie.

1078
01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:54,700
I mean, it's amazing what?
Having millions of dollars can

1079
01:01:54,700 --> 01:01:56,900
do for you.
Yeah, it's crazy man.

1080
01:01:56,900 --> 01:01:59,100
I mean, the same thing happened
with Steve Carell after the

1081
01:01:59,100 --> 01:02:01,200
office.
I mean, that's honestly my plan.

1082
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:06,500
Yeah, you know, Millions through
all of your sons who will join

1083
01:02:06,500 --> 01:02:08,200
the NBA?
So that's right.

1084
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,000
So I mentioned this in the first
half but I do think the script

1085
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,600
for this movie is probably the
best of all three even though

1086
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,500
that's juggling too much you
know it's not Perfect.

1087
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,200
But in terms of the dialogue,
they give the characters.

1088
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,300
And like I said, the breathing
room for the characters to

1089
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:26,500
actually act and have reactions.
I think it really sets this

1090
01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:30,900
movie up for success and you
notice it, especially with Sam

1091
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:32,900
and Frodo.
I think Elijah Wood, and Sean,

1092
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:35,900
Astin are just spectacular in
this movie.

1093
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:40,800
And I noticed it really early on
when Sam is talking about how he

1094
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,900
has rationed out all the bread
and Frodo's, like, would you

1095
01:02:43,900 --> 01:02:47,400
ration it out for and he says,
for the journey home Home and

1096
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:52,100
they cut back to Frodo and the
realization of like, I totally

1097
01:02:52,100 --> 01:02:55,800
forgot that we have to go home
after this too and it's almost

1098
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,800
like you see in the moment, the
weight kind of get lifted off of

1099
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,600
him as he remembers what home is
and where he's ultimately going.

1100
01:03:03,100 --> 01:03:05,600
It's a brilliant, little touch
and there's, there's many

1101
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,400
touches like that throughout the
movie where they just allow a

1102
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,900
character to have a reaction
like that.

1103
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:16,100
And I think that because the
acting is so good in this movie,

1104
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,500
they Don't need to write more
dialogue to cover up for that.

1105
01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:22,500
They just have these little
silent reactions and it works

1106
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:26,600
beautifully.
Yeah, I think that the most

1107
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:31,300
improved part of this film, as
opposed to the others it really

1108
01:03:31,300 --> 01:03:35,300
is just opposed to The Two
Towers is the Frodo and Sam

1109
01:03:35,300 --> 01:03:38,000
storyline.
I think that you get so many

1110
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:43,600
more moments with them that the
payoff of spending all this time

1111
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,100
with Frodo and Sam being best
friends from the start of the

1112
01:03:46,100 --> 01:03:53,100
first, Movie to this point is
the fact that you are just so

1113
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:57,000
deeply affected by what happens
to them and you're right.

1114
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,900
Bob, the script for them is on
point, the acting performances

1115
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:06,300
delivers, such a beautiful
friendship that you can't help

1116
01:04:06,300 --> 01:04:10,500
but just be moved by some of
the, in my opinion cheesiest

1117
01:04:10,500 --> 01:04:12,800
lines of all time.
Like I might not be able to

1118
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,200
carry it but all carry.
Yeah.

1119
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,400
Like it's a terrible lies.
That is a terrible line that

1120
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:24,000
works like even when even when
Aragorn and Gandalf and all of

1121
01:04:24,008 --> 01:04:27,600
them are making their kind of
Last Stand at the gates knowing

1122
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,200
they're gonna die, probably not.
Knowing if Frodo is there, but

1123
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,900
just saying like we have to do
this, if Frodo is alive, so he

1124
01:04:33,900 --> 01:04:38,600
can buy him time and the eye of
Sauron is calling out to Aragorn

1125
01:04:38,700 --> 01:04:42,000
and he just turns back in tears.
And it's this moment where

1126
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:43,400
you're like, oh my God, are they
gonna do?

1127
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,800
This is Aragorn gonna turn evil
in the last moments of of this

1128
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,200
movie and he has that final
resolution where he just

1129
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,600
Whispers for Frodo.
Again, stupid line.

1130
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,000
But man, is it effective or
what?

1131
01:04:57,100 --> 01:05:01,200
Like yeah, that's the thing is,
is I don't knock the script for

1132
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:05,000
having cheesy dialogue, when
it's earned like and the

1133
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,400
performances earn it, and the
fact that you've invested 8 + H

1134
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,900
at that point of the movie, you
know, into this world.

1135
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,100
It absolutely works.
And like the last thing I'll say

1136
01:05:15,100 --> 01:05:18,600
about these performances Brad I
wish I could like make a gif of

1137
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,100
this.
Maybe I'll try to when they're

1138
01:05:21,100 --> 01:05:24,600
inside, Mount Doom and Frodo.
It's the very last time.

1139
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,700
The ring calls out to Frodo.
He's holding it like over the

1140
01:05:27,700 --> 01:05:31,700
chasm and he's crying like he's
so anguished that he doesn't

1141
01:05:31,700 --> 01:05:34,500
want to let go and the ring
starts calling out to him and

1142
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:37,200
they put the camera back on
Elijah Woods face and this guy

1143
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:43,300
goes from Deep pain and anguish
and crying to this like obsessed

1144
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:48,000
Blank Stare and watching that.
Ocean come over here or lack of

1145
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:48,800
emotion.
Come over.

1146
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:53,700
His face, is truly unsettling,
like, it's a brilliant touch

1147
01:05:53,700 --> 01:05:56,600
that they didn't cut away from
it, they just show his face kind

1148
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:01,200
of morph back into this, you
know, Obsession man.

1149
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,500
I just think that the
performances are so so good.

1150
01:06:04,500 --> 01:06:06,800
And there's these small little
touches that I think go

1151
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,800
unnoticed in a movie, that's
this big.

1152
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,500
But I think they deserve to be
called out well, and not only do

1153
01:06:14,500 --> 01:06:18,500
they deserve to be called out,
but I That moment is like one of

1154
01:06:18,500 --> 01:06:21,500
the most important of the
series, right?

1155
01:06:21,500 --> 01:06:25,900
That you, you've been with
Frodo, through this nine, our

1156
01:06:25,900 --> 01:06:29,500
journey, you know, this thousand
plus page Journey.

1157
01:06:29,500 --> 01:06:33,200
If you're reading the books, and
you get to the end and you've

1158
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:37,100
watched him bear, this burden.
He's carried this.

1159
01:06:37,100 --> 01:06:43,000
Wait for so long and right at
the cusp of Victory, the weight

1160
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,400
overpowers him and that is like
a, to me.

1161
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:48,300
Me.
It is one of the most crushing

1162
01:06:48,300 --> 01:06:52,800
defeats in the history of
literature Cinema.

1163
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,300
Like, I don't care what you
throw my way.

1164
01:06:57,300 --> 01:07:00,700
Like, you know, spoiler alerts
as you will, but like,

1165
01:07:00,700 --> 01:07:04,300
Dumbledore getting killed Luke,
I am your father, like I think

1166
01:07:04,300 --> 01:07:08,700
that the moment Frodo gives in
to the temptation of the ring is

1167
01:07:08,700 --> 01:07:14,200
one of the most heart-wrenching
moments for me in all of movies.

1168
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:19,400
I mean, honestly even as much as
I hate the prequels when Anakin

1169
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:24,600
finally goes over to the dark
side and he's killing younglings

1170
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,700
and he's doing all this terrible
stuff, I still watch all of

1171
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:31,200
those movies going.
Like, hoping that Anakin won't

1172
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:35,000
turn this time that he won't
become evil, and I feel

1173
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:38,200
similarly about Frodo and Mount
Doom.

1174
01:07:38,500 --> 01:07:41,100
It's just touching to me and
it's heart-wrenching and it's

1175
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:45,200
sad and yet, it's beautiful that
the whole story ends with

1176
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,200
Gollum, like, I don't know, man.
I just I think that Tolkien just

1177
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,600
wrote some of the best damn
books ever.

1178
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,800
And I just, I just can't get
over how good they all.

1179
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,100
I do want to make one last point
and then let's go into final

1180
01:07:57,100 --> 01:07:59,000
scores.
And, you know, you had asked me

1181
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:03,200
this question about, like, do
you think that Tolkien had heard

1182
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:07,300
somebody in the trenches of
World War One talking about the

1183
01:08:07,300 --> 01:08:09,600
girl, they left behind because,
you know, Sam sitting on the

1184
01:08:09,607 --> 01:08:11,800
side of the mountain talking
about Rosie and how much he

1185
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,600
loves her.
And it really kind of reframed,

1186
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,800
the way I was looking at this
and I'm sure it's very Yes, to

1187
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,600
people who've studied Tolkien
and this movie in particular of

1188
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:26,200
the three is such a brilliant
kind of World War, One and post

1189
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:32,600
World War 1 text, like it is all
about the intense psychological

1190
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:38,100
lingering effects of War and
what you just called out Brad

1191
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:41,300
that Frodo ultimately is not
successful.

1192
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:45,800
Then his quest like the ring
gets into the lava of Mount Doom

1193
01:08:45,899 --> 01:08:48,300
because God Um, Falls in like
Frodo.

1194
01:08:48,300 --> 01:08:53,100
Did not throw that ring in and I
think his decision or his lack

1195
01:08:53,100 --> 01:08:57,899
of action, really, really haunts
him and you see it when they go

1196
01:08:57,899 --> 01:08:59,600
back to the Shire at the end of
the movie.

1197
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,600
Like and I know that in the
book, The Shire that there's a

1198
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,000
whole there's a whole chapter
called the scouring of the Shire

1199
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,000
where they go back to the Shire
and it's been burnt to the

1200
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,700
ground basically and they made
the decision to not do that in

1201
01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:15,399
this movie to leave the Shire as
is and it's a brilliant decision

1202
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,300
because what you get Is that
incredible scene where they're

1203
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:21,800
all at the pub together and
hobbiton is going on.

1204
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,399
Like nothing happened.
And these four guys have seen

1205
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:28,899
some and like it has really
affected them and they can't

1206
01:09:28,899 --> 01:09:34,100
adjust back to regular life like
it is such a brilliant parallel

1207
01:09:34,100 --> 01:09:37,200
to what these soldiers were
experiencing as they came back

1208
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,399
from World War 1.
It was the horrors of, you know,

1209
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:44,000
the gas and the trenches and no
man's land.

1210
01:09:44,300 --> 01:09:48,600
I really, really think that What
they did with this script to

1211
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,600
kind of reverse what happened in
the book, actually, underlines

1212
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,100
the point that Tolkien was
trying to make even better.

1213
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,700
And so, I don't know that really
stood out, to me, I thought it

1214
01:09:56,708 --> 01:10:01,000
was a great kind of metaphor for
soldiers returning from war.

1215
01:10:01,500 --> 01:10:04,200
Yeah.
I mean, I love the scouring of

1216
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:05,900
the Shire.
It is one of my favorite

1217
01:10:05,900 --> 01:10:09,000
chapters in the books, but I
think that, that, you know, I

1218
01:10:09,008 --> 01:10:12,800
talked earlier about a choice
that Jackson made to go against

1219
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,600
the books that I didn't.
Like this is a choice that I do

1220
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,500
like it.
It's the tone of the movies and

1221
01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:22,800
like you said, Bob it fits this
theme of like, this is what we

1222
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:26,900
were fighting for, but I don't
know if we get to enjoy it

1223
01:10:26,900 --> 01:10:29,300
anymore.
And I know that Frodo is the one

1224
01:10:29,300 --> 01:10:33,100
who leaves he sails, you know,
from the grey Havens off to

1225
01:10:33,100 --> 01:10:36,500
valinor which, well, do you want
to know more about violent

1226
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:38,000
world?
I don't, I don't because we were

1227
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,700
like an hour and ten minutes
right now.

1228
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,400
Okay.
Well, it's worth a vowel are

1229
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,700
live.
Anyways, I think that at the

1230
01:10:46,700 --> 01:10:51,100
ending of this movie is
brilliant because it does show

1231
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:56,900
that trauma sticks around.
And I think that that is a

1232
01:10:56,900 --> 01:11:00,300
message that is, I don't know,
man.

1233
01:11:00,300 --> 01:11:05,700
It's simultaneously sad.
And yet, it's so incredibly

1234
01:11:05,700 --> 01:11:08,600
relatable.
I just, I have this weird

1235
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:12,400
feeling that the world needs to
know that.

1236
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,700
It's okay.
That trauma doesn't go away

1237
01:11:15,700 --> 01:11:19,200
sometimes.
Yeah like it's okay that some

1238
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,000
wounds never fully heal, you
know that's part of what makes

1239
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:28,000
us human and the important thing
to deal with that is to have

1240
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:33,000
friends and family that love you
unconditionally surrounding you

1241
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,300
and caring for you till you pass
on some day.

1242
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:39,500
Whether that's 80 years from
now, 20 years from now or one

1243
01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:43,100
year from now like having
friends and family around you is

1244
01:11:43,500 --> 01:11:47,700
is so incredibly important.
Oh, I can hear your family in

1245
01:11:47,700 --> 01:11:51,700
the background right now.
I think my daughter might have

1246
01:11:51,700 --> 01:11:54,000
fallen and bonk Toronado.
No.

1247
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:55,700
All right, man.
Well we're going to wrap up

1248
01:11:55,700 --> 01:11:57,200
here.
I do want to say real quick a

1249
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,000
couple years ago, Peter Jackson
released a documentary that he'd

1250
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,600
been working on for years about
World War one.

1251
01:12:02,700 --> 01:12:06,800
They found a ton of footage and
they restored it into 4K, they

1252
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:11,200
colorized it and they basically
had actors come in and they were

1253
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,000
able to read the lips of what
these people were saying and

1254
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,400
they gave voice to these figures
from the past.

1255
01:12:16,700 --> 01:12:19,400
And it it like, it's called,
they shall not grow old.

1256
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,100
It is an incredible documentary.
You should watch it immediately.

1257
01:12:23,700 --> 01:12:26,800
And I think this movie is really
a clear indication of where

1258
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,800
Peter Jackson was going with his
fascination with World War one.

1259
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,100
But on that note, Brad I'm going
to give this movie a 9 and a

1260
01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:37,300
half out of ten.
It is still for all the things.

1261
01:12:37,300 --> 01:12:40,300
It's juggling for the sheer
length and volume of things they

1262
01:12:40,300 --> 01:12:42,600
have to do.
It's nearly perfect.

1263
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:43,800
The endings.
Absolutely.

1264
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,400
Hit the nail on the head, I have
very little to complain.

1265
01:12:46,500 --> 01:12:49,400
Plain about except for denethor.
And I think that this movie

1266
01:12:49,500 --> 01:12:52,500
could be a little more fun in
the kind of middle section.

1267
01:12:52,500 --> 01:12:55,100
But other than that, man, it's a
nine and a half out of ten.

1268
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,900
Yeah.
You know, Bob I look back at

1269
01:12:58,900 --> 01:13:04,100
watching this movie and I just
remember being in the theaters

1270
01:13:04,100 --> 01:13:09,200
as a 13 year old like this was
like a seminal movie moment for

1271
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:14,300
me that like I sat down the
movie theater was so packed and

1272
01:13:14,300 --> 01:13:18,700
this theater was jam-packed.
People are sitting in the aisles

1273
01:13:18,700 --> 01:13:22,400
on the stairs for three and a
half hours for this movie, my

1274
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,600
parents and my brother and I got
separated.

1275
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:29,100
I had to sit by myself for the
movie and as the movie finished,

1276
01:13:29,100 --> 01:13:32,000
there's so many moments where
the audience kind of cheered or

1277
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,000
grown or, you know, they were in
it for the whole time, but when

1278
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:41,300
the credits came up and Frodo
leaves on the ship, I don't know

1279
01:13:41,300 --> 01:13:46,100
if I've ever heard a plow
Applause louder than I heard in

1280
01:13:46,100 --> 01:13:46,800
that.
Moment.

1281
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,700
I mean, it was just
reverberating through this

1282
01:13:49,700 --> 01:13:53,100
theater.
It was a magical moment for me.

1283
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:58,100
I just think that this movie,
it's just perfect for me.

1284
01:13:58,500 --> 01:14:02,500
And I agree with you 100%.
This movie is not perfect, it

1285
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:07,000
deserves a 9 and a half.
But for me, like, I kind of love

1286
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,900
that I am DB doesn't give you
half stars because it forces you

1287
01:14:10,900 --> 01:14:12,600
to think.
Like, yep, I give this a nine

1288
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,900
and a half on the podcast.
But is it more of a 10-9 and a

1289
01:14:15,900 --> 01:14:18,100
half or more Of a nine, nine and
a half.

1290
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:21,500
And for me this one is
definitely much more of a ten

1291
01:14:21,700 --> 01:14:24,300
nine and a half.
And so I'm actually going to

1292
01:14:24,308 --> 01:14:27,100
give it a 10 out of 10.
I think that the Lord of the

1293
01:14:27,100 --> 01:14:31,400
Rings trilogy is perfect and
I'll Never back down from that.

1294
01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:34,100
All right, here's what I'm going
to say because next week is

1295
01:14:34,100 --> 01:14:35,700
going to be our bracket
challenge.

1296
01:14:35,700 --> 01:14:39,200
So we're going to start with all
32 movies from season 4.

1297
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,300
We're going to whittle it down
to one Champion.

1298
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:43,600
Brad.
I don't, I don't want to just

1299
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,300
disqualify a movie, but I will
say, I don't know.

1300
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:47,800
How the brackets going to look
yet.

1301
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,100
I don't think I want a Lord of
the Rings versus Lord of the

1302
01:14:51,100 --> 01:14:55,100
Rings final.
So if possible, I think we

1303
01:14:55,100 --> 01:14:58,600
should go into our bracket
challenge with that in mind.

1304
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,500
That only one of them can be in
the championship if they get

1305
01:15:01,500 --> 01:15:04,400
that far.
Do you think that's fair, Bob?

1306
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,700
I'm pretty sure you're trying to
commit bracket fraud right now.

1307
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:10,400
You are trying to influence my
vote.

1308
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:14,100
It is unacceptable.
I will be submitting this audio

1309
01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:20,100
clip to the Polo authorities.
This is unacceptable by, right?

1310
01:15:20,100 --> 01:15:21,600
I'm disappointed in you, all
right?

1311
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,600
I'm at will work on you but we
want to know what you think,

1312
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:26,800
filmin whiskey Nation.
We came out to a nine point

1313
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:28,700
seven five out of 10 on this
movie.

1314
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:32,000
If you agree with either of us,
if you disagree, if you think,

1315
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,500
Lord of the Rings is terrible.
You can certainly try to make

1316
01:15:35,500 --> 01:15:38,700
your case by reaching out to us
on social media where you can

1317
01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:43,000
find us on Facebook, Twitter or
Instagram at film whiskey, or

1318
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you can leave us a voicemail.
Let your voice be heard on the

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film whiskey.
Podcast about the one of the

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greatest films of all time
Return of the King.

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Any other opinions are silly
invalid but but very valid and

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we would love to listen to them.
When you leave them on our

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website, which is anchored dot
f.

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M /, film whiskey.
We will see you next week for

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part one of our bracket
challenge.

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But until then I'm Bob book, I'm
Reggie and we'll see you next

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time.