The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007) / Old Overholt 4-Year Rye

1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,160
In 2007, director Andrew Dominic
and star Casey Affleck gave the

2
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,840
world a hauntingly boring flick
about the lonesome nature of ill

3
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:16,040
gotten fame.
In 2025, we try one of the

4
00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,480
whiskey world's oldest operating
brands.

5
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,480
The film is the assassination of
Jesse James by the Coward Robert

6
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,800
Ford.
The whiskey is Old Overholt 4

7
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,640
year Rye and we'll review them
both.

8
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,680
This is the film and.
Whiskey Podcast.

9
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,480
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey
podcast, where each week we

10
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,360
review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

11
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,920
I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad Gee.

12
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,160
And this week we are returning
to Brad's favorite movie in the

13
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,360
history of this podcast.
And one that folks, I have just

14
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,800
been looking forward to like
crazy.

15
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:16,440
It's 2007's The Assassination of
Jesse James by the Coward Robert

16
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,960
Ford, heretofore known as the
Assassination of Jesse James by

17
00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,040
the Coward Robert Ford because
Brad will not.

18
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,000
Let me talk.
About this movie without saying

19
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,760
its full name.
I mean, Brad, Bob, it's it's a

20
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,600
matter of semantics.
Like, if we don't give things

21
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,160
their proper title, how do you
really know what we're even

22
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:36,840
talking about?
Yeah, and I mean it.

23
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,000
It adds so much context.
Who's doing the assassinating?

24
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,960
What kind of person was the
assassinator?

25
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,120
You know what I mean?
To be honest, it's almost like

26
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,520
you don't even need to watch the
movie.

27
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,480
Well, I see, Brad, that we're
going to get into some spicy

28
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,960
takes pretty quickly here.
And because of that, I called in

29
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,320
some reinforcements.
Now, folks, if you remember, we

30
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,880
are in season 10 of the Film and
Whiskey podcast, and we're

31
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,680
revisiting all of the films from
season #1 in the process.

32
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,800
Now in season #1 we had some
Brad, dare I say, poor audio

33
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,080
quality.
So that's kind of why we're

34
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,400
redoing this now.
And, and we figured with six

35
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,280
plus years of context now and
all those reviews behind us,

36
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,840
it's time to revisit those
movies from season #1 I have

37
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,120
been holding out hope that as we
return to The Assassination of

38
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,360
Jesse James by the Coward Robert
Ford, that Brad might come

39
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,840
around on it.
It is already looking like that

40
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,280
might not happen.
And so I wanted to bring in

41
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,960
somebody that I know for a fact
has an appreciation for this

42
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,000
movie to balance out Brad's
take.

43
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,160
It's our friend Zach Johnston
from Blackwood Distilling.

44
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,320
Zach, welcome back, man, it's
been a while.

45
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,880
Thanks for having me, gentlemen.
I am very excited to be here and

46
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,040
I am very excited to talk about
this movie.

47
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,760
I am very excited that you're
here, Zach, That that just like

48
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,400
warms the cockles of my heart.
I'm I'm sort of in a bit of a

49
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,400
conundrum now because I know so
much about this movie.

50
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,480
It came out when I was in film
school, I saw it at the Arclight

51
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,080
in Hollywood.
But I also know a lot about

52
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:21,360
Jesse James and so I'm worried I
might spoil 3 facts or two facts

53
00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,840
and a falsehood by just getting
through this.

54
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,600
But we'll do our best.
Yeah, spoil away, man.

55
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,040
I love it.
I love it when we accidentally

56
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,040
trip Brad up and he comes in and
says like, well now I only have

57
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,560
two things I can share because
Zach already shared one of them.

58
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,280
No, honestly, that's happened
like maybe two or three times in

59
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,200
the history of the podcast.
And when Bob will go on one of

60
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,120
his long like 7 minute, you
know, exposes on something about

61
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,240
the movie, I'm just like
frantically typing in the

62
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,320
background, which is hard now
that we're on.

63
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,480
Video we can see what you're
doing now.

64
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,400
Yeah, you can see when the eyes
glaze over and Brad starts

65
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,720
opening a new tab here.
So that's why we brought Zach in

66
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,280
to help add some of that context
without it being just me for 7

67
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,080
minutes.
Zach, before we dive into Brad

68
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,600
explains and Brad can offer some
context for his return to this

69
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,680
movie.
Tell us a little bit about your

70
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,760
history with this movie.
I mean, you said it came out

71
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,720
during film school.
You're already a big history

72
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,720
buff, so you knew a lot about
Jesse James.

73
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,520
What was it about this movie
that that got its hooks into

74
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,960
you?
And I guess you know, don't

75
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,800
spoil too much, but does it
still have its hooks in you all

76
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,200
these years later?
So this is a film I watch

77
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,160
probably once a year.
I own it.

78
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,440
I don't just rent it.
I think a big part of it is it

79
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:46,200
reminded me a lot of the, the
like, I hate this term, but

80
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,440
revisionist westerns of the 70s
and 80s that led to Unforgiven.

81
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:57,240
So everything from Pat Garrett
and Billy the Kid to, you know,

82
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,400
became Miller and, you know,
Heaven's Gate and that sort of

83
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:09,360
big, epic, but very cinematic,
unique sort of Western film that

84
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,840
this is obviously the progeny
of.

85
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,720
It just sort of was the films
that my dad and I would bond

86
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,520
over.
Even, you know, if you look at

87
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,240
Eastwood from, you know, outlaw
Josie Wales and the sort of the

88
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,440
way that was able to revise a
look at the West, Jeremiah

89
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,200
Jones, you know, films like that
as well that also led to

90
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,040
Unforgiven.
And then this was, you know, if

91
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,280
you kind of take a a little bit
of a travel back in time, there

92
00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:39,720
haven't been a a true western
revival ever.

93
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,840
Really like that was in the 70s
eighties.

94
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,560
Well, sorry, 50s, sixties, 70s,
little bit of the 80s.

95
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,720
Unforgiven was sort of the last
Great Western arguably until

96
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,960
this.
You know IA big fan of 310 to

97
00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:02,000
Yumo which I think came out in O
8 or maybe around the same time

98
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:03,720
I think.
It might have been the same year

99
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,240
as this.
Yeah, obviously No Country for

100
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,240
Old Men is a modern Western,
which I think again came out the

101
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,240
same year.
So there is a definite for me,

102
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:20,960
this film was kind of like a
reawakening of that revisionist

103
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,440
era of Western film that it
could be epic, it could be big,

104
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:30,440
it could be very cinema forward
and not just, you know, you

105
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,720
know, silly shootouts and
killing Indians in like the back

106
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,360
lot at, you know, some Italian
studio.

107
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,560
And not that there's anything
wrong with those films.

108
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,480
They have their place.
But you know, this was for me

109
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,960
and that, you know, now that I'm
thinking about it, I was in film

110
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:52,000
school and I wrote a western
after this film.

111
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,200
So this was probably why I wrote
that Western SO.

112
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:56,640
There you go.
Well, are you going to, are you

113
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,680
going to share it with us here?
Are we just going to turn this

114
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,280
into a a table read for your
western script?

115
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:09,120
No, it was about a older brother
getting his little brother to

116
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:15,240
safety after a bar fight that he
accidentally killed, like the,

117
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,200
you know, the big guy in town's
son and then sort of them on the

118
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:25,240
road in in like between
Washington and into the

119
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,480
mountains back in like the late
1890s.

120
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,400
So it had a little bit of that,
you know, stuck between the past

121
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,200
and the industrialization of
America, even in the West.

122
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,280
And, you know, it's a very
classic story of, you know,

123
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,720
family doing everything you can
for family to a point where, you

124
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,480
know, sort of destroys them,
destroys everybody and.

125
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,280
What I hear you saying is it was
like the Fast and the Furious

126
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,240
set in the 1890s.
Exactly, Exactly.

127
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,240
It actually stars Vin Diesel.
Brad.

128
00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,400
Yeah, that's all right, guys.
Well, let's let's talk a little

129
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,480
bit about this movie.
And I think the best way to get

130
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,200
into that is to get into our
first segment of the day, which

131
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,360
we call, Brad explains.
Brad's going to give us the

132
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,000
movie plot with only 60 seconds
ticking on the clock, so let's

133
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,600
go ahead and do your take with
this little segment that we call

134
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,520
Brad explains.
Brad Explains is the part of the

135
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,440
show where Brad breaks down the
plot of the movie that he has

136
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,960
just seen, at least for the
second time.

137
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,240
Now, Brad, I am going to go out
on just a massive limb here and

138
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,440
say that you have not even
remotely thought about

139
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,679
rewatching this movie since 2019
when we first watched it.

140
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,679
I we've known for a while now
that we are going to do this

141
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,039
rewatch season.
And so I have been like holding

142
00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:47,080
on 'cause I have been curious.
I really hated this movie, Bob.

143
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,520
I found myself the first time we
we watched it.

144
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:57,800
I was like, I don't know, 50 to
60 minutes in and I was so bored

145
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,600
and I, like checked how much
time was left and I literally

146
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,840
felt like anger and hatred in my
soul towards you specifically.

147
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,160
Yeah.
I, I couldn't understand the

148
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,000
idea that you were making me
watch this.

149
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,880
And I, and looking back, I
always thought I was like, man,

150
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,880
like I I need to give it a
second chance.

151
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,280
Maybe I was having a bad day and
so I watched it again for the

152
00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,920
podcast.
Once again, you made me watch

153
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,680
this movie, Bob.
I did, I did.

154
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,040
And Brad, you've done such a
good job at hiding your feelings

155
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,760
so far.
Thank you so much for burying

156
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,880
the lead.
No one can tell what you think

157
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,720
of this movie to this point.
And I think Trap Baby, let's

158
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,000
keep going down that path and
let's give just the most

159
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,240
impartial, objective take about
what this movie is about.

160
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,680
Because you have 60 seconds on
the clock, Brad, to break down

161
00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:51,280
the plot of this movie with full
spoilers, this movie that is

162
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,120
once again called The
Assassination of Jesse James by

163
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,920
the Coward Robert Ford.
So, Brad, one minute and go.

164
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,960
The Assassination of Jesse James
by the Coward Robert Ford is a

165
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,880
film that follows the
aforementioned Jesse James and

166
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:15,080
Robert Ford as they enter into
the end of the Jesse James gang.

167
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,920
They have finished their last
heist, if you will.

168
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,800
It follows Robert Ford as he
joins the gang for one last

169
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,840
heist on a train.
After that, all the gang members

170
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,600
slowly go their separate ways
and Jesse gets super paranoid

171
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,480
and slowly starts to kill them
all.

172
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,320
All the while Robert Ford, who
was obsessed with Jesse James as

173
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,760
a child, realizes that he
actually hates him and maybe

174
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,040
wants to have sex with him and
gets the reward money for

175
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,760
killing him.
The end.

176
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:50,400
When Zooey Deschanel's in it
randomly and then James

177
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,720
Carville's there and they're
just kind of doing things.

178
00:10:54,840 --> 00:11:00,520
Why not man so?
Can can I say when the very end

179
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,280
of the film, when Casey Affleck
is like finally like resigned to

180
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,400
his fate and like he's like
older at this point.

181
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,320
I don't know if it's like 1015
years after, you know, he kills

182
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,040
him.
Incredible.

183
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,080
That last like 5 minutes of the
film.

184
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,400
He is stellar.
And I was like, in the rest of

185
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,320
the movie, not so much.
I, I think here's the best way

186
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,920
to approach this, Brad, I want
you to be able to speak your

187
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,640
piece today before getting
steamrolled by both Zach and

188
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,400
myself.
And so you know what, the floor

189
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,160
is yours, man.
I would like to hear a pawn

190
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,280
rewatch.
What are your thoughts on on

191
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,520
this movie?
Have they changed at all or

192
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,080
become more nuanced at all since
the last time and now especially

193
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,880
since we've seen so many other
movies in between?

194
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,680
And in particular, I, you know,
I kind of texted you and said I

195
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,560
was excited to see what you
thought of this on the other

196
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,960
side of Unforgiven.
You know, does this work the way

197
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,520
that Unforgiven does?
Does it not, you know, talk a

198
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,880
little bit about those things.
Like I said before, we just cut

199
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,960
you off and tell you that you're
you're not allowed to talk

200
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:10,840
anymore.
Yeah, no, totally.

201
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:17,920
I Unforgiven works in a way that
this movie never could because

202
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:23,000
Unforgiven submits itself to the
traditional movie narrative

203
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,640
structure.
And while it upends a lot of

204
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,920
the, you know, Zach, like what
you were talking about earlier,

205
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:36,000
it it kind of upends these
tropes about what a Western was

206
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,120
in the revisionist history.
Like Unforgiven dives into the

207
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,560
grittiness and the grossness of
what it means to be a killer in

208
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,480
the West.
So I but it's still like falls

209
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,680
within a traditional structure
that is enjoyable to watch.

210
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,120
The Assassination of Jesse James
by the Coward Robert Ford is

211
00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,360
about as long as its name is in
comparison to other movies.

212
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,880
It.
And it doesn't have a point to

213
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,240
the length.
I think that, like, that's the

214
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,120
frustration for me is that the
movie doesn't need to be this

215
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,000
long to give you what you get
because what you get is like 0

216
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,000
character development.
Like it, it moves at a glacier's

217
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,600
pace for you to get to know all
these side characters who are

218
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,360
about the shallowest human
beings I've ever seen.

219
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,920
It's one of those things where
I'm like, when I heard about

220
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,320
this movie, or like I saw that
we were watching it the first

221
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:40,400
time, It's like I knew who Jesse
James was, but I have no memory

222
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,160
of learning about Jesse James,
right?

223
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:43,600
Right, right.
You know what?

224
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:46,280
I mean, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I
just, I'm like, Oh yeah.

225
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,120
He was this like Western bank
robber guy.

226
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,840
Yeah, where I picked that up
from.

227
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,320
He almost falls into like the
comic book culture of like, you

228
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:04,200
read Hulk but you didn't read
Iron Man, or you read the Hulk

229
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,480
but you didn't read Batman,
right?

230
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,680
And so if you didn't read
Batman, then who the fuck is

231
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,840
Batman, right?
And especially with these guys.

232
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,120
So then we'll get into this
later.

233
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:18,920
They're so mythologized and the
the actual Jesse James isn't

234
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,120
even real anymore 'cause the
real guy was a huge piece of

235
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,680
shit.
But I have a point about that

236
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,480
later.
But it's sort of it's, it's

237
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,880
interesting because 28 movies
every single decade, there's a

238
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,400
couple.
Yeah, that's nuts.

239
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,600
None since this though.
This was the last one.

240
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,880
It killed it man.
This movie destroyed it.

241
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,120
Assassinated Jesse James.
He was like, man, if this is

242
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,480
what it does to a a director's
career, I'm out.

243
00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,200
Yeah.
All right, guys, I want to get

244
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,320
back into talking about the
movie a little bit here.

245
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,320
And if you're watching the
video, you will see that Brad

246
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,480
and I have now changed clothes.
We're recording this on another

247
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,400
day.
So you know what, Brad, welcome

248
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,040
back into talking about Jesse
James.

249
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,520
Technical difficulties.
Somehow Bob and I still managed

250
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,040
to match.
Almost.

251
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,720
We look great, and Zach is still
wearing the same shirt he was

252
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,520
wearing three days ago.
So like, he's just been sitting

253
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,480
at the desk waiting for us to
return, I think is what actually

254
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,640
happened here.
Zach, I just believe in

255
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,600
continuity.
Yeah, I think it's really

256
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,360
interesting your point about
there being 28 Jesse James

257
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,240
movies and this being the last
one.

258
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,840
And I want to get back to what
Brad was talking about.

259
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,920
You know, you said Unforgiven
was much more successful than

260
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,480
this film in your eyes because
it followed that sort of

261
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,760
conventional structure and that
this one didn't.

262
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,800
And I, I want to go a little bit
deeper on that.

263
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,880
What about this movie to you
didn't follow a conventional

264
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,160
structure?
Because I, I hate to throw

265
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,200
around terms like poetic, but I
definitely do think this movie

266
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:07,120
is very much like look a leaf
look the the field of wheat that

267
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,480
we can linger on for a moment.
And and I still think the story

268
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,200
itself is very linear and like
well thought out and pretty

269
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,840
conventional.
So is it just something about

270
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,720
like the pacing of the movie
that felt unconventional to you?

271
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,760
Well, it I mean, yes, the pacing
is glacial.

272
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,800
Like this is one of the slowest
paced movies I've ever watched

273
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,400
and I like, I don't mind a slow
paced film.

274
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,040
There are movies that deserve a
slow pace.

275
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:44,720
I don't know if the waning years
of a famous outlaw and his final

276
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,160
days deserve a two hour and 40
minute runtime.

277
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,680
And I I've I feel like another
thing that shows me that the

278
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,320
director didn't know where he
was going with this film.

279
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,120
It it's a really small thing,
but the the narration of the

280
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,720
film feels very off and it
doesn't, it doesn't fit or vibe

281
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,480
for me.
And it feels like a tacked on,

282
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,920
like he realized at the end,
like, ah, crap, we this movie

283
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,160
isn't quite making sense.
We need to throw some narration

284
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,400
in there, partially because of
things like and Jesse James had

285
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:30,120
a condition where he blinked his
eyes too much and then that's.

286
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,920
Actually, my favorite thing is
that they don't.

287
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,680
He's like, it's a holding on his
face and he doesn't blink the

288
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,200
whole time they're talking about
that.

289
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:38,880
Raise my hand.
Go ahead.

290
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,040
Go ahead, Jack.
Go ahead.

291
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,080
So what's sort of beautiful and
I actually ended up reading this

292
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,080
whole script in the last three
days.

293
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,920
It's sort of phenomenal script
while.

294
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,720
You're sitting in that chair
waiting for.

295
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,760
Us to record that's.
All I was doing the last three

296
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,480
days, just sitting here reading
the script, the narration is

297
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,720
100% there.
There's actually way more of it.

298
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,840
And so they actually turned the
narration down.

299
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,080
And what's beautiful about the
narration, especially in this

300
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,520
film, is when all the stuff
they're saying about Jesse

301
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,040
James, they're showing the exact
opposite because everything

302
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,000
they're saying is a myth.
Rooms did not get hotter when he

303
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,760
went in them.
He did not do any of this shit

304
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,640
they're talking about.
He didn't have that condition

305
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,840
where a blink.
That's a myth that we're in all

306
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,640
the dime story novels.
And So what they're doing is

307
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,240
Dominic's doing is setting up
the juxtaposition between this

308
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,040
is the myth that everybody
thinks here's the actual asshole

309
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,280
he was because he was a
terrorist and an idiot.

310
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,280
And in the opening narration,
it's actually 4 pages long in

311
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,560
the script, which is insane.
It goes much deeper into who he

312
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,160
really was, as in he was
superstitious and he believed

313
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,240
the dumbest shit imaginable
because he was, it was 1870s and

314
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,200
1880s of people believed in dumb
shit.

315
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,520
You know, like bleachers are
going to cure your tuberculosis

316
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,400
or whatever.
And, you know, he believed he

317
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,440
was really superstitious and he
was, you know, he didn't believe

318
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,840
in religion, but he was like
super into God.

319
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,520
And you know, all this stuff
that was supposedly reported,

320
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,480
what he was actually like, and
also the fact that he was a man

321
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,320
of his time and he was an
uneducated, dumb shit terrorist.

322
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,080
That's what it.
Should have been called

323
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,680
assassination of the uneducated.
Dumb shit terrorist.

324
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,080
But they, and so they, they sort
of condensed that in the film to

325
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,320
that 2 minutes, a narration that
we actually do get to show that

326
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,080
this isn't the myth.
This isn't the other 27 films

327
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,720
about Jesse James.
This is who he is.

328
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,880
And at this time, he's a
paranoid weirdo.

329
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,520
Yep, living amongst idiots like
they, they go to great lengths

330
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,480
in that narration state.
This is a whole new crew and

331
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,880
they're all country rubes.
You know, they're people who are

332
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,320
uneducated, lost in Missouri,
basically lost to Kentucky,

333
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,640
this, this Tennessee, you know,
who maybe probably maybe saw the

334
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,440
war, but were probably born a
little bit after it during

335
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,400
Reconstruction when, you know,
there's probably no access to

336
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,000
education just basically.
And so that's what's sort of

337
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,560
brilliant about the narration,
because it shifts towards not

338
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,000
getting too far ahead of
ourselves here.

339
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,200
But as it shifts towards when
Bob decides he's going to

340
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,360
actually kill Jesse, when he's
in that last house and he's

341
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:18,120
walking around by himself hit,
the narration shifts to his

342
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:23,600
inner monologue of him writing
the myth of Bob Ford and how he

343
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,960
makes the rooms harder when he's
in them.

344
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,200
And he does that.
And so it's him thinking that

345
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,560
he's going to take that place
that Jesse took.

346
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,240
And that's why the narration
shifts.

347
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,240
And man, every time I read like
a critic, I respect being like,

348
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,320
why are they telling me what's
he's doing on screen?

349
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,800
And it's like, that's the point.
It's him telling the story in

350
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,360
his head, the way he thinks the
dime store novels are going to

351
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:50,440
tell it, right.
And so, you know, as I sorry if

352
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,400
we've, I think we've mentioned
this offline, but you know,

353
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,200
Roger Dinkins loves this film.
The cinematographer, he's on

354
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,160
record recently still saying
that the Train Robbery scene is

355
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,600
his favorite shot he's ever done
in cinema, which is wild when

356
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,200
you can go look up the guy's
resume.

357
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,360
But he still defends it.
He says the four hours cut a

358
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,920
can, the four hour cut of this
was incredible.

359
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,680
And you understand why when you
read the script in that it is a

360
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,640
two-part film.
The first half is Jesse James

361
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,080
and he gets killed, and the
second-half is Bob Ford.

362
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,760
So that whole, like, truncated
last 30 minutes.

363
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,760
It's actually what would have
been the second-half of the film

364
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,200
that Warner Brothers.
Warner Brothers was like, well,

365
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,720
Brad Pitt's dead.
We got to get out of here.

366
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,120
So they cut out all the Bob Ford
stuff where you see him get

367
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:45,040
famous and not become Jesse
James because he killed him.

368
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,240
He didn't become him right now.
He wasn't.

369
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,600
You know, you can't turn a
murderer into a Robin Hood

370
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,080
figure, whether it's real or
not, right?

371
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,480
So that's what's sort of
fascinating in that what was

372
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,880
taken out actually would have
made it maybe better.

373
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,560
It would have.
Deepened it a little bit, yeah.

374
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,280
And I want to go back to this
narration thing because, Brad, I

375
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,840
feel like in a lot of ways, it
kind of is the skeleton key to

376
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,640
the whole movie.
Not just in that it, like,

377
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,120
blatantly tells you what the
movie's about, but like, I think

378
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,440
the first time we watched this,
I compared it to the movie

379
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,800
Seabiscuit because that is
another movie based on a novel.

380
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,160
And the opening narration and
the narration throughout that

381
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,240
movie is designed to situate you
historically, not just in the

382
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,760
time period.
But everything that the narrator

383
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,240
in that movie talks about is
technological progress and like,

384
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,120
the development of the Model T
Ford.

385
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:42,240
And then you have these three
guys who can't break into a

386
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,080
society that has moved past
horse racing, and the fact that

387
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,600
they can't is what actually
brings them together around this

388
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:49,800
horse.
Seabiscuit It's a really

389
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,040
interesting way of using
narration, not just to describe

390
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,840
what's on screen, but to, you
know, tease out the themes of

391
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,520
your movie.
And I feel like this movie does

392
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,040
that as well.
And I, you know, I keep going

393
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,200
back and forth on like, should
my let's make it a double B

394
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,120
Seabiscuit?
Should it be Unforgiven?

395
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,520
Because we've definitely dealt
with themes like the

396
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,240
mythologizing of the American
West before.

397
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,200
But I don't know if we've ever
seen it done quite like this

398
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,520
where, you know, not only is
your central figure a bad guy,

399
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,720
Allah, the searchers, right?
But then you're constantly

400
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,440
grappling with the myth versus
the reality, Allah, the man who

401
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,360
shot Liberty Valence.
So like there's there's homages

402
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,160
to other westerns.
There's a there's homages to

403
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:39,200
this overly mythologizing of the
American West.

404
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,760
And I think that for me, that's
kind of the entry point.

405
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,240
I'm with you in that, like, it's
a slow paced movie.

406
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,480
I don't think every character
decision always makes sense.

407
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,080
And I kind of like that.
I like that from scene to scene.

408
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,520
It's like, you know, if Jesse
was able to be diagnosed with

409
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,040
something like my guy is
bipolar, like my guy

410
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:02,000
legitimately has bipolar
disorder, and no one would have

411
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,120
been able to tell that.
But then it's not just that.

412
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:08,720
It's the it's the actual earned
paranoia of I'm being hunted by

413
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,840
the law.
I can't trust anybody.

414
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,520
I want to be able to trust
somebody.

415
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,200
And I think Pitt is at his best
in this movie in those moments

416
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,880
where he's either purposely
needling somebody and seeing how

417
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,560
they'll react and then getting
disappointed when he can tell

418
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,840
that they're going along with it
because they're trying to throw

419
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,360
him off the scent.
Or the opposite, when he's

420
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:32,880
actually being vulnerable with
somebody.

421
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,120
And then something clicks within
him where he realizes this

422
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,280
person's also betraying me.
And you see the woundedness of

423
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,800
Jesse.
I I just really like that Pitt

424
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,280
is able to play everything from
manic to super depressive to

425
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,240
cold blooded killer to kind of
almost like jilted lover in a

426
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,360
lot of ways with with the people
around him in this movie.

427
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,640
And dad, like you see him
playing with his kids earnestly,

428
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,440
you know, and I think I
mentioned before, this is Brad

429
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,320
Pitt entering his daddy phase
after his pretty boy phase as an

430
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,120
actor.
You know, this is around Tree of

431
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,480
Life.
And you know, Inglourious

432
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,400
Basterds comes right after this
and that's when he becomes Daddy

433
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,760
Pitt.
And you know, it's sort of it's

434
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,280
funny though, I think the real
unsung hero of this film after

435
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,520
we watching it again is Sam
Rockwell, cause Rockwell as.

436
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,360
Absolutely.
As Charlie Ford, like he's this

437
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:29,520
dip shit, funny guy, always
having fun with the boys.

438
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,600
But that moment when they're at
the grocery and he brings Bob

439
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,720
Ford out, you know, to bring him
back into the the fold.

440
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,680
And Charlie's standing there
behind the horse.

441
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,960
And then he just, like, turns
into this, like, very serious

442
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,120
person.
He's like, listen, man, this

443
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,280
isn't a fucking joke.
This is real.

444
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,680
And he's like that whole Charlie
Ford we've seen up until that

445
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,720
point is completely gone.
And he is like, an utterly

446
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,120
different character.
And you realize the whole time,

447
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,520
you know, this is some poor kid
who basically got through life

448
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,760
by being the funny, dopey guy
who I'm sure, you know, we've

449
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,880
all been a little bit of or we
all know someone who was like

450
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,200
that in college.
You know who that was what

451
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,800
helped him get by to, you know,
make friends and, you know, get

452
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,640
ahead when, like the when things
are cards are on the table.

453
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,320
The way Sam Rockwell is able to
shift that character while

454
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,320
making it believable that he's
still the same Charlie Ford we

455
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,040
saw sitting there joking about,
you know, women in the forest

456
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600
with, you know, Dick Little and
wood height at the beginning of

457
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,520
the movie.
Or you know the guy who's

458
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,160
serious with Brad Pitt as well,
like the scenes they have in the

459
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,480
house when he's sleeping over
and they're talking and like

460
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,880
there's just a just a beauty to
his performance.

461
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,640
Sam Rockwell is far and away the
best part of this movie for me.

462
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:53,000
Like he it is that moment where
you can tell that the dumb Hick

463
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,400
is not totally an act.
But when he lets it drop and

464
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,080
goes, look, I understand what's
going on here.

465
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,280
Like, and he does it once with
Pitt when Pitt is like

466
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,160
interrogating him in in the
middle of the night.

467
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:06,880
And then he does it with his
brother.

468
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:13,240
And that that descent for him
into madness and suicide and

469
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:17,280
committing suicide.
I like if they made a movie

470
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,840
about that, if you had like the
train scene and like 20 minutes

471
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,040
of Jesse James getting murdered
and then a movie about

472
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,600
Rockwell's descent into
depression and, and I would, I

473
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,040
would have been totally in for
that because Sam Rockwell is

474
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,320
incredible in this movie.
Yeah, yeah.

475
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,720
And I and I think sort of
picking up on what you're

476
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,600
saying, Bob, about like the
American Western especially, but

477
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,240
I think the American story, and
I'm going to go on a bit of a

478
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:52,200
tangent here, but like people
misunderstand the Superman is in

479
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,960
the American ethos mythos,
right?

480
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,240
People always think Superman is
Jesus.

481
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,480
Zack Snyder made Superman,
Jesus.

482
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,840
Brian Singer made Superman
Jesus.

483
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Superman is not Jesus.
He's specifically Zack Snyder.

484
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:10,240
Yeah, he's specifically Moses.
Like Jerry Siegel has said, he

485
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,960
is Moses, period.
He is here to lead us out of the

486
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,640
desert.
That's the whole point of

487
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,520
Superman.
And thank God James Gunn

488
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,640
understood that like, he's not
Jesus.

489
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,240
And this is, I think what is
also exemplified with Jesse

490
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,760
James is Jesse James is a
prototype for a comic book

491
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,280
character, a hero that wasn't
real but was mythologicalized as

492
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,480
someone like that.
And people I've reading reviews

493
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,480
for this film try to put the
Jesus parable onto it with, you

494
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,680
know, like Bob washing his hands
before he kills them.

495
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,600
It's like, well, that's not
what's happening in that scene

496
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,160
at all because he hasn't decided
to kill him yet till he goes

497
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,920
inside.
But like all these things.

498
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,240
And it's like, that's not it.
Like Jesse James is a false

499
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,800
idol.
He's a golden calf that we are

500
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,640
desperate, desperate to find
because, and this is the mythos,

501
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,120
Americans are the Israelites
lost in the desert.

502
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,880
I mean, this isn't me making
this up.

503
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,040
This is manifest destiny.
People have made this, been

504
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,320
making this point since the
1800s.

505
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,960
And we have a desire to worship
a new God, to worship, you know,

506
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,000
something here as we move West.
And Jesse James was one of those

507
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,000
first false idols.
I mean, it's so pointed in

508
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:28,680
Andrew Dominic's film that when
O'kelly goes to kill him, he

509
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,520
stops at a blacksmith's and
melts down metal to put it in

510
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,320
his shotgun.
Just like Moses belted down the

511
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,040
idol and made the idolaters eat
it when he came off the mountain

512
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,320
and raged.
I mean, it's the same thing, you

513
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,160
know?
So there's the idea that, you

514
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:51,160
know, Bob worshipped Jesse James
as this false idol, as a Moses,

515
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,680
and then he realized that maybe
I can be the idol and was not

516
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,680
and was, I mean, literally
shotgunned with the melted down

517
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,240
medal of the idol.
And boom, there it goes.

518
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,400
Yeah.
So we we don't need to preach

519
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,240
anymore.
We're done.

520
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,720
Zach's got it, man.
But, you know, and that's needs

521
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,680
having a very basic
understanding of that sort of

522
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,440
story, like I and that's, you
know, just the bullet points.

523
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,480
But I I find that fascinating.
Those are some great bullet

524
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,040
points, Zach.
But it's also that's the

525
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,920
American story that's unforgiven
false idol tree.

526
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,320
You know the whole duck of
death, right?

527
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Like that's that or even little
Bill.

528
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,760
Same thing with outlaw Josie
Wales.

529
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,480
Like they make Josie Wales into
this idol and he's not their

530
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,520
hero.
Like he he has to tell them over

531
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,280
and over and you can come with
me, but I'm not be the good guy,

532
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,200
you know.
And of course, you know, it's

533
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,120
it's it's manifest destiny.
And that's what sort of is

534
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,240
beautiful about this film for me
is seeing that in that we have

535
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,920
to stop worshipping these false
idols.

536
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Jesse James was a terrorist and
a bad person, and he was not a

537
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,320
hero, no matter what the
newspaper said in New York or

538
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,120
what the newspaper said in San
Francisco.

539
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,560
But the idea that we're so
desperate for these heroes and

540
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,680
it it, it rings for me.
It rings true as a deeply

541
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,000
American story.
I want to go back just a little

542
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,400
bit though to what we were
talking about with among the

543
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,280
cast of characters here, because
you guys were talking about Sam

544
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Rockwell.
I do think Sam Rockwell,

545
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,880
especially in the cut that Zach
is describing, the four hour

546
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,160
cut, this sounds like a guy
waiting to collect his Oscar,

547
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,320
right?
Like that, that role is

548
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,640
perfectly set up to see that arc
that you don't get to see now

549
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,240
because of the the two hour cut,
2 hour and 40 minute cut.

550
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,840
And I keep thinking, you know,
top to bottom, this cast is

551
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,600
incredible.
And a lot of these guys were

552
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,320
kind of on the cusp of stardom
and hadn't quite gotten there.

553
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,880
And that's how you get a cast,
you know, a bench this deep.

554
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,600
Like Jeremy Renner.
You don't expect to see him in a

555
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,640
movie like this anymore, but you
could catch him as wood height

556
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,040
in 2007.
But when I kind of zoom out and

557
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,160
look at the overarching story
here, I do wish that we had

558
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,880
gotten 20 more minutes post
assassination to watch the

559
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,280
fallout.
And you could cut 20 minutes of

560
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,240
Dick Little commenting on
people's genitals and would

561
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,320
height and him and their
hijinks.

562
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,280
And I understand that it's for
Jesse.

563
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,600
It's kind of the inciting
incident that that sends him on

564
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,600
his murder spree that remind,
you know, it's like when Robert

565
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,600
De Niro has everybody killed and
Goodfellas after the Lufthansa

566
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,160
heist.
It's it's like that except

567
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,320
stretched out for 45 minutes.
And I just feel like if there's

568
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,760
a stretch of the movie that
needs tightened up drastically,

569
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,400
it's that stretch of the movie.
I thought when he went and

570
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,680
visited Garrett Delahunt,
whatever his name in the movie

571
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,920
is, you know, the guy that's
like living by himself and looks

572
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,040
hollowed out and is terrified
when Jesse comes.

573
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,560
And man, that's incredible
stretch.

574
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,600
It's so good.
It's like one of the best 10

575
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,000
minute stretches of the whole
movie.

576
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,960
But Paul Schrader getting
stuffed into a small, what's

577
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,360
that?
Ed Miller, the Dick little

578
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,400
character getting stuffed in a
closet repeatedly and found by

579
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,120
people is just.
We needed to move that along a

580
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,200
little bit, Brad.
Agree.

581
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,080
And that's the that's the
problem is the the film wants to

582
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,800
have a tone like a capital TI am
an artiste.

583
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,840
Then I am setting the tone and
then you have Dick little just

584
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,000
running around following his
penis trying to get laid and

585
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,320
you're like.
Country roofs.

586
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,880
I mean, yeah, but jeez, Louise,
does it have anything to do with

587
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,160
Jesse James and Robert and the
coward Robert Ford and the

588
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,920
tension between the no.
What are we doing here?

589
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,480
Man, well I mean it sets like
the I agree 100%.

590
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,760
It can be.
If you're going to cut something

591
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,840
out, you can cut that down to 5
minutes and it sets up that Bob

592
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,640
is a killer because he kills
wood without any sort of

593
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,080
remorse, but you can accomplish
that so much more quickly.

594
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,560
Honestly, cut the entire thing
out and we the audience don't

595
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,000
even know if Dick Little did it
or not.

596
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,000
Tell me that that's not better
because now it sets you up as

597
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,120
like, oh man, I don't know if
Robert Ford is defending an

598
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,639
innocent or you know, I guess
wood height isn't necessarily

599
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,199
innocent or guilty.
He's just trying to protect his

600
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,239
father.
So it's like, is he helping the

601
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:34,639
right person or the wrong
person?

602
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:36,159
We don't know.
And all of a sudden there's more

603
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,960
ambiguity about it.
And you didn't have 45 minutes

604
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,320
of of Dick.
Little running.

605
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,880
And I think this is this is also
sort of a problem with

606
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,239
revisionist historical drama in
general, where they stick too

607
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,040
close to the actual story
because that's what did happen

608
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,320
in real life.
All that, you know, like they

609
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,720
could, you know, the Kentucky
plantation house and blah blah,

610
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,520
blah, like that did happen to be
wood and Dick and so but it's

611
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,080
also like it's a movie, man.
Like we can take artistic

612
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,120
license also to say this more
quickly.

613
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,240
Why do their names have to be
Wood and Dick?

614
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,760
Come on.
Because.

615
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,120
Because history loves us.
It's it's beautiful, man, having

616
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,320
a character named Dick Little.
It's just it that should have

617
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,320
been like the 5th Anchorman at
the Channel 4 News team.

618
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,040
That's.
Like.

619
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:25,880
It's it's perfect.
Oh my God.

620
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,440
I do want to end on the street
Dick Little move up a level here

621
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,760
and and get to like our two
leads, though we've touched a

622
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,600
little bit on Brad Pitt's
performance.

623
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,120
I want to talk about Casey
Affleck.

624
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,160
So Affleck is nominated for best
supporting actor at the Academy

625
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,600
Awards, which I, you know, I
think is category fraud.

626
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,800
Jesse is definitely more of a
supporting character than Robert

627
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,600
Ford is here.
And, and again I maybe if this

628
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,560
is the four hour cut, then we
see Casey Affleck getting the

629
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,720
lead actor nomination instead of
the supporting actor nomination.

630
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,680
Brad, I bring this up mostly
because I remember in season 1

631
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,080
you, you found the Casey Affleck
performance to be really

632
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,560
grating.
And I'm wondering if that's

633
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,160
still the case because I thought
he I, for me, I thought he did a

634
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,400
really good job of playing a, a
super insecure 19 year old.

635
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,000
I think when we meet him, who
has worshipped somebody all

636
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,560
through his boyhood, who hasn't
quite reached adulthood yet and

637
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,160
is feigning maturity, and then
to see where he goes at the end

638
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,000
of the movie, I really found the
performance to be excellent.

639
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,360
I do think that like his I'm a
teenager voice.

640
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,840
Sure, that could use some
tweaking, but I thought it was a

641
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,240
good performance overall.
Brad.

642
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,200
Yeah, I I think that Casey does
a really good job here overall,

643
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:47,160
and this is nothing that he
could have controlled.

644
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,000
He does not look 19.
I think that's one of the

645
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,800
problems is when he's like
scrambling on the floor to keep

646
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,280
the guys from looking at his
Jesse James collection under the

647
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,480
bed.
He looks like a 31 year old

648
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,040
scrambling under the bed trying
to keep them from his like

649
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,520
superhero comic book collection.
That's your point.

650
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,040
Have you seen the meme that go
that's been going around of like

651
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,280
the Penn State offensive line
from like 1988?

652
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,880
And it's, it's like guys staring
at the camera being like, I'm,

653
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,960
you know, Biff Jones or
whatever.

654
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,040
And they look like they're 48
years old, dude.

655
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,320
And this was just in the 80s.
So I can't imagine what a 19

656
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,400
year old in the 1870s looked
like.

657
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,080
The amount of drugs that they
were doing by the time they hit

658
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:38,320
like 19 or 20 in the 80s, yeah,
it does.

659
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,200
Yeah, I remember people being
mad that.

660
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,960
Frank, I thought you were going
to say I remember doing doing

661
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:53,640
all those drugs in the 80s.
But it was like, like, because

662
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,120
Frank and Jesse were in their
like, late 30s, early 40s.

663
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,520
I was like, yeah, Frank James
lived through the Civil War as

664
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,960
an adult.
And like, yeah, he might have

665
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,400
only been 44 or whatever, but he
looked like when you see

666
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,800
pictures of him from then, he
looked like he was 60.

667
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,680
Five, yeah.
Speaking of another character, I

668
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,280
wish we had more time with him
'cause he felt like he could

669
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,680
have been a meaningful insight
into Jesse that we just never

670
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,720
got.
Which I mean, like I understand

671
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,080
it's about Robert's point of the
Bob's point of view, but he.

672
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,480
Had to go sell shoes, man.
He had to go sell shoes.

673
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,960
Yeah, that's that's what we all
have to do after we spend 12

674
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,920
years robbing people.
I mean, that's what she it's

675
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,400
shocking because that's what he
did.

676
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,440
It that's wild.
Yeah, he just, I mean, he did

677
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,160
other stuff, but mostly he
ended.

678
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,680
He did.
He became a shoe salesman, did

679
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,800
some other stuff, tried to be
like a lawman, went back to

680
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:50,880
selling shoes.
Hey.

681
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,040
If that's not a classic, pull
yourself up by your own

682
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,400
bootstraps.
Americana story, literally.

683
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,600
We.
Started on he.

684
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,880
Even sold those bootstraps to
himself.

685
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:03,840
As petty criminals and now here
we are, entrepreneurs.

686
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,840
What's, what's even more wild is
that, and I mean, I don't know

687
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,800
how much you guys know about
like Wyatt Earp and all that

688
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,720
mythology, but you know, Wyatt
Earp went to Hollywood to be a

689
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:17,840
basically consultant, right?
Jesse James Junior, the son of

690
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,360
Jesse James who we see in this
film, played Jesse James in the

691
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,320
first two films about Jesse
James in 1921 and 1922.

692
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,040
There you go.
That's why.

693
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:32,080
Which is, yeah, like is how
close that is basically in time

694
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,320
when you think about it.
Yeah.

695
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,200
And.
Well, dude, I.

696
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:36,760
I just saw a thing the other
day.

697
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:43,560
The last widow of a Civil War
vet died in 2020.

698
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,280
Did you guys know this?
Yeah, because she.

699
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:52,240
Was 17 and married a 90
something year old so that she

700
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:57,400
would get his civil war
government benefits right.

701
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:58,800
Right.
Wow.

702
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,680
Wow.
Wildman.

703
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:01,440
Yeah.
That's like when you.

704
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,440
That's like when you hear that,
like James Polk's grandson is

705
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,800
still alive or something, you
know?

706
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,400
Yeah.
Wait, what is happening, Brad?

707
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,920
Do you know what it is?
This is wild time.

708
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:13,720
Do you know what else is old
Brad?

709
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,640
What's that, Bob?
Overholt Boom.

710
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,640
Overholt is so old.
I think that what we should do

711
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,400
is let's hit pause here, Brad.
We'll talk a little bit more

712
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,320
about Brad Pitt when we come
back from the break because this

713
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,720
is a very Brad Pitt centric
season on film and whiskey.

714
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,680
And I think that we we've really
seen the different shades of the

715
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,880
Brad Pitt acting experience.
And so I want to pick your

716
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,400
brain. 50 Shades of pit. 50
Shades of pit baby.

717
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,600
New podcast name I call it.
Let's drink this old Overholt.

718
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,000
Brad, what do you say?
Dude, I'm ready.

719
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:55,200
Let's do it.
All right, so today we are

720
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,840
checking out Old Overholt 4 Year
Rye.

721
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:02,800
Now, Brad, this is a super
complicated history of old.

722
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,120
And four years old don't
necessarily.

723
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,080
This doesn't jive right.
I mean I guess being as this is

724
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,640
from like the oldest continually
operating distillery in America

725
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,360
or or label in America, it
started in 1810.

726
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,280
Perhaps given the infant
mortality rate back then 4 was

727
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,720
considered old.
You never know.

728
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,280
That's true.
Yeah, that is very true.

729
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:30,600
Lots of history has been
happening with the old Overholt

730
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,240
brand, which is owned by Santori
now as part of the Jim Beam

731
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:37,640
portfolio.
So when we tried this in 2020,

732
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:43,280
the baseline expression was an
80 proof whiskey and then later

733
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,560
in 2020, it looks like I'm
reading off of a website here,

734
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,040
they did a full relaunch of the
brand with a proof change that

735
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,360
upped it to 86 proof.
They also released a bonded

736
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,320
expression, hold, over hold,
bottled and bond, and an over

737
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,440
proof version, the 1:14, which
we've tried on the show before,

738
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,680
but now they've actually gone
back and redone the standard

739
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,360
version again.
Not only is it 86 proof, but it

740
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,160
now carries a four year age
statement, whereas the previous

741
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,080
version was a blend where the
oldest was only three years old.

742
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,640
So there's been tons of
different changes.

743
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,240
I'm kind of glad that we didn't
try them all and we can just

744
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,440
kind of come back to whatever
the standard version of old

745
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,080
Overholt is now.
Brad, suffice it to say, it's

746
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,080
still super affordable because
they only sell it in a one liter

747
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,360
bottle.
And I think Brad, we paid like

748
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,720
$21.00 for it in the state of
Kentucky.

749
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,880
So I'll take that all day, man.
Yeah, this is not an expensive

750
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,000
whiskey.
In Ohio I believe you can get a

751
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,480
750 for 20 bucks.
From where I look.

752
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,320
Up so which is still very
affordable yeah very affordable

753
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,720
whiskey.
I'm going to dive in.

754
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:59,600
I like the nose on this is it's
all sorts of sweet mint like I I

755
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,040
think about like a gum, like a
sweet mint flavored gum.

756
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,480
There's vanilla frosting on it.
It's not an overly complex nose

757
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,000
that like it doesn't dive into
being very spicy the way I would

758
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,160
want it to, but it's an overall
pleasant nose.

759
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,640
I'll give it a 7 out of 10.
When I was in Korea, I fell in

760
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,680
love with these treats that they
had there that were not quite a

761
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,800
cookie.
It was almost like a a cross

762
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,560
between a sponge cake and like a
shortbread.

763
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,520
It was real chewy and dense and
inside of it, it had a pineapple

764
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,120
filling that was not like, it
wasn't like a donutty jam

765
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,280
filling.
It was like it was sweet but not

766
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,120
overly sweet.
And dude, I ate so many of those

767
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,520
freaking things when I got when
I got home, I was like, we have

768
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,160
to find them.
We ordered them on Amazon.

769
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,520
They're like $30 'cause they had
to ship them from freaking

770
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,640
Korea.
This is that all day.

771
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:56,600
It's cakey, it's bready.
And I got, when I popped my

772
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,480
bottle, dude, I got 5 minutes of
just uninterrupted pineapple on

773
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,440
the nose of this thing, which I
never ever get on whiskey.

774
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,320
I just put pineapple cake and
pineapple juice all day.

775
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,160
It's like a tiki drink made of
rye. 9 out of 10.

776
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,360
That's all I got to say. 9 out
of 10.

777
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,720
I loved this nose dude.
Wow, yeah, I dude, I'm happy for

778
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,320
you.
I I wasn't like blown away by

779
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,040
anything, but it was good.
Yeah.

780
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,320
I mean, I think for me it was
like, I know that this is

781
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,280
probably not going to be a nine
out of 10W, but I've never

782
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,400
experienced this before, so I
might as well reward it now

783
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,560
before something lets me down
eventually.

784
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,280
Yeah, totally.
Dude.

785
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,120
I I think on the palate, what I
really picked up, that sweet

786
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,200
mint continues to stick around.
It has a nice simple syrup vibe

787
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,920
going on, a nice pleasant
sugariness to it.

788
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,320
The the thing that made it stand
out for me is once again, it

789
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,360
didn't really get spicy on the
palate.

790
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,160
It reminded me, to your credit,
Bob, of like a Lorna Dune

791
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:06,320
shortbread biscuit type of
flavor.

792
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,600
That was really pleasant.
I liked it.

793
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,960
Once again, not very complex.
I'm going to come down a tiny

794
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,000
bit from the nose.
I'll give it a 6 1/2.

795
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,320
This is this is like a nice
pleasant minty rye.

796
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,040
Yeah, I do think that over the
last couple days, as my bottle

797
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,720
has kind of like gotten
acclimated to being open, a lot

798
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:25,480
of that pineapple is gone this
time around.

799
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,800
So I'm looking at my notes that
I took from four days ago versus

800
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,720
right now.
It's definitely more in that

801
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:37,000
minty rye category.
I will say, almost no actual rye

802
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,920
grain on the nose or the palate,
which makes me wonder if this is

803
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,200
more of like a 5149 kind of rye
mash bill.

804
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,080
I'm not entirely sure.
I like it.

805
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,320
It's pleasantly sweet.
It does have that kind of like

806
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,880
spearmint gum thing going on.
There's a hint of fruitiness.

807
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,520
I wouldn't call it pineapple.
I'll come down to a 7 out of 10

808
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,040
here on the pallet, Brad.
The finish is where things kind

809
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,760
of for me fell back into the rye
category.

810
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,680
The mints turned into like a
dill eucalyptus kind of

811
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,360
insinuation I guess.
The shortbread stuck around that

812
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,280
Lorna Dune vibe and the rye
finally kind of stuck the

813
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,480
landing.
I felt like as I let it sit for

814
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,720
a little while and like
remembered what I had drank, I

815
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:29,120
could taste that rye spice
coming through.

816
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,440
I'm going to come back up from
that 6 1/2.

817
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,200
I'll give it a 7 out of 10 on
the finish.

818
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,360
And I think balance wise, I'm at
a 7 out of 10.

819
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,840
Like, like it's not complex,
it's not bad.

820
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,000
There's a lot of nice pleasant
rye flavors that end with the

821
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,240
rye spice so.
Yeah, I'm, I'm way more

822
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,000
disappointed than I was a couple
days ago.

823
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,400
I'm like changing my scores in
real time here.

824
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,320
I do think that, like, you know,
the finish is pretty good.

825
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,360
It just, I wrote down sweet and
fruity.

826
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,600
I think today I would add minty.
There's a touch of bitterness to

827
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:02,840
it.
You said eucalyptus.

828
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,600
I started thinking like Vick's
Vapo rub.

829
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,360
There's a little bit of that
like almost medicinal thing

830
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,080
going on at the back end here
too.

831
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,360
Still, for a $20 whiskey, it has
character.

832
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,240
Do I love every note in the the
palette here?

833
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,440
Not necessarily, But like this
could taste a hell of a lot more

834
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,800
bland than it does and I'm glad
it doesn't.

835
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,640
So I'll give it a 7 out of 10
and I'll also go ahead and give

836
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:33,400
it a 7.5 on value or I'm sorry,
on balance overall, 'cause I

837
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,040
think that the nose definitely
tipped me off into like, well,

838
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,720
this is going to be some
tropical fruits that it didn't

839
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:42,800
really deliver on overall in
the, you know, the pallet or the

840
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,880
finish.
So 7 1/2 here, Brad, when we get

841
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,320
to value, we tend to judge it by
what we can get in the state of

842
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,080
Ohio.
So if you're correct that

843
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,960
there's a 750 in Ohio for 20
bucks, I would give that like an

844
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,720
8 out of 10 value.
I like the one liter that we got

845
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:03,520
for $22.00 or whatever, a lot
better than that, but I don't

846
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,800
really think my score is going
to change.

847
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,800
This is not like the the world's
greatest budget whiskey, but

848
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,800
it's a pretty darn good mixer
rye that you can also drink

849
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,560
neat.
I'll give it an 8 out of 10.

850
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,240
I'm right there with you Bob. 8
out of 1020 bucks.

851
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:21,440
There's some good flavors here.
You can drink it neat.

852
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,440
If you wanted to make a
Manhattan or another ribase

853
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:30,000
drink that this would work.
I'm coming to out to a 35 1/2

854
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,720
out of 50 Bob.
Yeah, I'm coming out to a 38 1/2

855
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:35,600
Brad.
So like, this is pretty darn

856
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:36,920
give.
It a nine out of 10.

857
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,160
I mean.
Let's on the nose.

858
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:40,800
Let's not split hairs here,
Brad.

859
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,560
Come on.
Look, this is a really

860
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,680
wonderfully cheap expression of
rye whiskey.

861
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:52,720
If you're looking to try out a
rye on the budget shelf, Old

862
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,000
Overhaul Rye has got your back.
It's 86 proof.

863
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,080
It's got a good amount of
flavor.

864
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,840
It'll let you have a good time
with it.

865
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,480
I'm I'm, I'm in for this.
I would recommend it.

866
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,280
I would too.
We're coming out to a 74 out of

867
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,520
100 or a 37 out of 50 on
average.

868
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,240
Brad in the old Siskel and Ebert
Vane I I would say 2 thumbs up

869
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,440
on this bad boy.
I like this a lot and it's

870
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,280
freaking cheap so you know.
Yeah, pull up a chair with your

871
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,640
friends Wood Height and Dick
Little and grab a bottle of old.

872
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,880
Old Dick and Wood.
Brad, what do you say we rejoin

873
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,320
Zach and get back into talking
about the assassination of Jesse

874
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,680
James by the Coward Robert Ford?
I would love to talk about the

875
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,280
assassination of Jesse James by
the Coward Robert Ford.

876
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,960
With you and Zach.
Let's get to it, man.

877
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,360
All right, that was old Overholt
4 year rye for my taste at

878
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,280
least, Brad, a hell of a budget
rye pour.

879
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,880
I will drink that all day.
Absolutely.

880
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:01,320
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Man, a really beautiful $20

881
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,120
experience.
Brad, it's got me feeling pretty

882
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,120
confident because we have with
us here a guy who has read the

883
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,320
entire script of the four hour
cut of this movie, which bodes

884
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,960
well for our next segment of the
day, which we call 2 Facts and a

885
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:15,720
Falsehood.
Brad.

886
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:22,360
Is gonna try to stump you.
Ball 2 are right and what is

887
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,560
wrong?
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts

888
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,240
and a Falsehood is the part of
the show where Brad presents me

889
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:33,080
with three items as fact about
the making of this movie, one of

890
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,480
which is a complete lie.
Brad, I'm I'm kind of iffy this

891
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,960
season and I'm up and down.
I don't I don't know if I've

892
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,520
even had a two game win streak
yet this season.

893
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,120
So you've definitely been
keeping me on my toes here.

894
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,480
I I'm curious to see how this
one goes.

895
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,960
You.
You don't sound confident in

896
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,440
yourself here man.
I just, I've done this enough to

897
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,960
know where this is going to end.
So Are you ready?

898
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,440
The way you said that, no, I'm
not ready.

899
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:00,600
I'm going to ask you a question
first.

900
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,120
The way you said that, you sound
so resigned.

901
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,280
You reminded me of Jesse James
at the end of this movie and and

902
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,640
now that makes me wonder in our
relationship, are you more

903
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,320
likely to?
Turn around and Polish this copy

904
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,040
of Tree of Life here for a
minute.

905
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,880
Don't mind me.
Are you more likely to be the

906
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,880
Jesse James or the Robert Ford
of the two of us, bro?

907
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,600
I am obviously Jesse James.
Oh come on, man.

908
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,960
I'm just, I'm just saying our
relationship is pretty, pretty

909
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,880
clear here.
I have always been jealous of

910
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:42,680
your height and ability to to
snag women, you know, So I'm

911
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,440
just going to, I'm going to be
jealous of you.

912
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,200
I'm going to shoot you in the
back of the head.

913
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,360
What's going to happen, man?
I don't blame you man, you, You

914
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,160
do what you need to do.
The Lord will judge us all.

915
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,320
Hit me with your two facts and a
falsehood, Brad.

916
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,080
Fact number one In reality,
Jesse James suffered from a

917
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,160
syndrome that made him blink
much more than the average

918
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,760
person.
Although it's mentioned at the

919
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,560
start of the film, Brad Pitt
barely blinks during most of his

920
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,640
scenes.
Fact #2 The Ballad of Jesse

921
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,920
James was a folk song based on a
poem written by Stephen Foster,

922
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,320
one of the first popular
songwriters of the 19th century.

923
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:24,440
Fact #3 When Jesse goes looking
for Jim Cummins, another great

924
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,080
name, he introduced himself as
Dick Turpin, legendary English

925
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,440
rogue and Hwy. robber of the
1730s.

926
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,200
Turpin was romanticized in
English ballads and popular

927
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,520
theater of the 18th and 19th
century.

928
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,080
All right, Zach.
Here's where I'm at with this

929
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:41,960
one.
I'm pretty sure that you just

930
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,960
said that the Jesse James
blinking thing was bullshit.

931
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:51,080
So I've got #1 circled multiple
times in red pen.

932
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,000
But just for the sake of good
content here, I think that

933
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,840
number two, I, I've read
something to that effect.

934
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,000
Now I don't remember if it was
Stephen Foster, but I'm pretty

935
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,840
sure that the poem that Nick
Cave performs in the movie as a

936
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:14,720
song is a real pre-existing poem
or song lyrics #3 I don't know a

937
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,640
thing about Dick Turpin.
I did wonder why, he said.

938
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,200
That that's that's real.
That's definitely yeah.

939
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:26,320
Dick Turpin is a oh, Noel from
Bake Off.

940
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,400
He just did a show about Dick
Turpin on Apple TV.

941
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,120
It's a very famous, very famous
old highway, all right.

942
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,720
Well, then it kind of sounds
like we're we're taking #1 here

943
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,000
I.
Was just reading all the songs

944
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,440
by Stephen Foster like 2 days
ago.

945
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,800
Don't remember seeing the Ballad
of Jesse.

946
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:48,760
James song.
Wait a minute.

947
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,800
As it so happens, I was thumbing
through the Great American

948
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,960
Songbook 2 days.
Ago I was I was catching up on

949
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,680
the chord structure of parlor
music.

950
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,680
I know that sounds weird.
Actually.

951
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,920
Yeah, yeah.
You know, the, the progression

952
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,240
from Beethoven's Turkish March
to, you know, Cap town races,

953
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:13,840
There's a progression there.
But because it threw me, because

954
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,440
it was like I I just looked
through his whole like list and

955
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,440
because he wrote like my old
Kentucky home and Cap on races

956
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:25,000
and all those things like, and I
don't remember seeing, I think

957
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,920
he was dead already before Jesse
James died because he died

958
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,440
young.
So are we going to?

959
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:39,840
I I also like it's I positive
that the whole blinking thing

960
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,440
was made-up like it's been it's
a myth that he had that whatever

961
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,160
that condition was.
OK.

962
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,280
Then listen, I'm not we're we
cannot stray from God's truth

963
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:51,360
here.
I.

964
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,240
Content Bob.
I'm trying to make content.

965
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,880
I'm going to say #1 is the
falsehood and that Zach just

966
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,440
skipped over one page in the
Scott Foster songbook.

967
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,160
Stephen.
Stephen Scott Foster is an NBA

968
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:05,680
referee.
That's yeah.

969
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,480
He has no songbook.
He has a playbook maybe?

970
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:11,960
I have so many thoughts here,
guys.

971
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,840
A greatest line in film and
whiskey podcast history.

972
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,640
I was thumbing through Stephen
Foster's song book the other

973
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:22,880
day.
Really.

974
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:28,400
Zach and B, That is 2 losses for
you, Bob.

975
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,360
No, now I want to remind you of
two key things.

976
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,400
Key thing #1 When we have a
guest on, it's worth 2 losses if

977
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,120
you lose.
Key thing #2 My facts are lifted

978
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:51,480
straight from IMDb and I, I just
made-up #2 Zach, you, you nailed

979
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,360
me.
You had me against the wall.

980
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,320
I, you shot me like the coward
Robert Ford.

981
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,480
You had me dead to rights.
Yeah, like I said, he died

982
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:05,680
before Jesse James did. 100% I
just, I literally googled who

983
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:10,200
were famous songwriters in the
19th century and it said Stephen

984
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,080
Foster wrote Camptown races.
And I was like, I've heard of

985
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,080
that.
We're using Stephen Foster.

986
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,440
I'm so mad right now.
I'm sorry, Bob.

987
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,400
Zach, listen man, This is why we
bring experts on.

988
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,240
I can say you pick not me and
and you said my hands are clean

989
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:29,360
my friend.
Well, I I'm it's frustrating

990
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,400
because I caught it too.
Like I caught a lie because I

991
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,120
was like you. 100% caught it,
yeah.

992
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:35,720
But I was like, but wait a
minute.

993
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,000
If there was ever a time, Bob,
that you deserved both losses,

994
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,920
this is it.
Well, but then he said also I'm

995
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,040
positive that number 1 is a lie,
so.

996
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:50,280
Well, IMDBI mean.
Yeah, I was going to say, if we

997
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,920
can find conclusive proof that
one is a lie, can I claw back

998
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,360
one of the two losses?
I'll still take the L for being

999
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,800
overconfident.
If if you want to make sure that

1000
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:05,520
film and Whiskey Nation knows
the truth about Jesse James's

1001
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,720
blinking condition, you can have
that win back, all right.

1002
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:10,720
Well, it looks like Zach's doing
some research here.

1003
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,280
I'm going to segue us out of
this weird, weird segment that

1004
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,120
we just had and back into
talking about the movie.

1005
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,400
And we left off with Brad Pitt.
Now, Brad, we've just talked

1006
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,520
about Brad Pitt a few weeks ago
in Tree of Life.

1007
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,360
We've had him on the podcast
this season with Inglorious

1008
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,280
Basterds.
I'm sure there's one that I'm

1009
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,840
forgetting as well.
I like that you say we've had

1010
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,720
him on as if he was a guest
talking about.

1011
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,560
And honestly, just today I was
at the movie theater and I saw a

1012
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,760
screening of the movie 7, which
I have never seen in theaters

1013
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,000
before.
Regal Cinemas is doing this cool

1014
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,640
thing this month where they're
showing a new classic movie

1015
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,960
every day and I got to see Brad
Pitt in Seven and it was really

1016
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,520
interesting to see young Brad
Pitt's acting style versus a

1017
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,600
more seasoned Moneyball era Brad
Pitt.

1018
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,800
And watching him here is
interesting too, because he

1019
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,960
hasn't quite gotten on to what I
like to call the post Moneyball

1020
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,080
autopilot that he's been on.
I feel like he's just been

1021
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:12,000
playing Billy Beane for 13
consecutive years, which still

1022
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,400
works.
I like Brad Pitt, but it's a

1023
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,120
very like there's not a lot of
modulation in the performances

1024
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,160
anymore.
And and I you.

1025
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,480
Know man, he's he's not just
like doing doing Donuts in a

1026
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,240
truck randomly in a parking lot
Once Upon a time in Hollywood.

1027
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,680
That's true.
I I do feel like here, though,

1028
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,040
you still get the kind of last
glimpses of young Brad Pitt

1029
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,760
before, as Zach said before he's
entering fully into daddy Brad

1030
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,120
Pitt territory.
And you have to remember, like

1031
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,200
he's coming off of what, like
Mr. and Misses Smith is probably

1032
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,480
the film that he made just
before this.

1033
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,360
So, I mean, at the height of his
stardom, the, you know,

1034
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,440
Brangelina thing is blowing up
on him.

1035
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,920
He's grappling with tabloid
stuff, and he's making a movie

1036
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,080
about a guy who has been overly
mythologized, who is, you know,

1037
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,720
has the weight of the world upon
him, who can't trust anybody.

1038
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,960
And I think he plays that sort
of hauntedness really

1039
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,240
beautifully here, Brad.
Yeah, Pitt, while I'm with you

1040
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:18,080
guys, that Casey Affleck feels
like the star of this show, I do

1041
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:24,280
think that Pitt's fame and
talent on screen is a magnet

1042
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,840
every time he's on the screen.
And it's meant to be that way.

1043
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:32,400
I think Dominic recognizes that
he needs to allow Pitt's

1044
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,360
presence to play into the
mythology behind him.

1045
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,000
His actions don't really play
into it.

1046
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,080
His madness doesn't really play
into it, but his presence makes

1047
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,720
him feel like this mythological
figure that raises the

1048
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,920
temperature in any room that he
walks into.

1049
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,280
And so I think on that level,
Pitt like knocks it out of the

1050
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,720
park with his brooding deep
intensity whenever he stares

1051
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,960
somebody down.
You can understand why so much

1052
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:06,640
of literature has kind of this
like great man theory of of

1053
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:12,280
these these wild men of the
world that like you just quake

1054
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:13,920
in their presence a little bit.
I think.

1055
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,960
I think Pitt come portrays that
incredibly well.

1056
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:20,880
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's interesting.

1057
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,520
Ocean's 13 comes out earlier in
the year, then this is Pitt's

1058
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,520
run. 2007 to 2011.
Assassination of Jesse binge by

1059
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,560
the Carrot rapper Ford Burn
after reading Curious Case of

1060
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,160
Benjamin Button, Glorious
Basterds, Tree of Life,

1061
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,000
Moneyball.
That's a run.

1062
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,800
Yeah, man, that's a great run.
You did forget his one vocal

1063
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,760
performance in I believe the
film Megamind starred Will

1064
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,840
Ferrell.
But we're not going to count

1065
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:50,200
that.
We're just going to skip over

1066
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:50,840
that one.
And.

1067
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,120
Run credit.
Everybody gets one.

1068
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,640
Everybody gets one, Peter He.
He he also narrated a World War

1069
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,200
2 documentary, Dinner, as well.
That balances out, right?

1070
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,240
And then, after Moneyball, happy
feet, too.

1071
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,840
Oh yeah, see, we will count that
one that ends the run.

1072
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,160
Fury.
Fury was somewhere in there 20.

1073
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:13,000
14 Yep.
Yeah, Brad, you know, we were

1074
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,960
joking about 50 Shades of Pit.
Literally weird daddy and fury.

1075
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,520
That's true.
Before we went to break, we were

1076
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:23,120
joking about 50 Shades of Pit.
I have developed a significant

1077
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:28,080
level of respect for the
variations on the Brad Pitt, you

1078
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,000
know, mythos that Brad Pitt is
able to evoke.

1079
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,240
And it's kind of like Tom Cruise
a little bit.

1080
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,200
But I think there's even
something maybe more subtle

1081
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,160
going on there than there is
with Tom Cruise.

1082
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,000
Yeah, from from one end of the
spectrum where he can play

1083
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,440
broad, goofy comedy, like a Burn
After reading to something

1084
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,840
that's really quiet and subtle
like a tree of Life.

1085
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,720
You know, I think this falls
definitely closer to that end of

1086
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,960
the spectrum.
But he's lived on that end of

1087
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:58,160
the spectrum for so long, and
for him to not make every single

1088
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,600
performance feel like a carbon
copy of each other is really a

1089
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,320
sign of what a good and subtle
actor he can be.

1090
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,960
Yeah, yeah.
I man, my, do you want to know

1091
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,520
where my brain went?
I completely off the rails.

1092
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,040
You talked about Tom Cruise and
my heart started fluttering a

1093
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:17,200
little bit.
Of course.

1094
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,480
I really want now that Tommy's
done with the Mission Impossible

1095
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:29,320
franchise, I want him to have
like a like a late era Paul

1096
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:34,080
Newman, just like killer movie
that you're like, how did we get

1097
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:38,960
this, the most charismatic being
of our generation in a film like

1098
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,880
this at like 74 years old?
Well, you know, for most of his

1099
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,760
career, especially since he
turned 40, I would say Pitt has

1100
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,360
been kind of talked about the
way we talk about Clooney as

1101
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,760
like this generation's Cary
Grant and how he seems to have

1102
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,920
modeled his career that way.
Everyone has always linked Brad

1103
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,400
Pitt and Robert Redford.
And I think that, you know, we

1104
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,360
just found out today that Robert
Redford passed away at 89.

1105
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,680
Absolute legend.
And I, I've always found Pitt to

1106
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:11,280
be this interesting mash up of
Redford's career and Paul

1107
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,120
Newman's career.
I think your your point about

1108
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,840
Paul Newman is really spot on,
man, because as he's gotten

1109
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,600
older, the roles he's taken on
remind me more of late era

1110
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:22,800
Newman than they do of late era
Redford.

1111
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,560
But then he, you know, Pitt is
also doing a ton of stuff behind

1112
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:26,920
the camera.
He's got his own production

1113
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,240
company.
He's been nominated for and won

1114
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,840
Oscars as producer.
So he's got his hand in a lot of

1115
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,320
things.
But I look back on a guy like

1116
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,120
Robert Redford.
And as much as I love Redford, I

1117
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:43,560
think Pitt as an actor to me has
always been able to take it to

1118
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:49,680
one more level of I am.
I can go beyond my movie stardom

1119
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:54,360
to a point where my performance
is kind of commenting on my

1120
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,000
stardom.
It's a it's a level of meta that

1121
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,560
I don't think Redford really
ever dabbled in the way that

1122
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,960
even someone like a Newman did.
It's like a like a Birdman.

1123
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,960
Yes, yeah, Zach, I'd love to
hear your thoughts on that,

1124
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,240
though.
Yeah, I think that's pretty

1125
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,960
valid.
I mean, I love Redford to death,

1126
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:17,400
but he made some baffling
choices in the 80s, you know

1127
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:19,480
being.
We all, Zach.

1128
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,360
Yeah, like I've.
Established.

1129
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:23,560
Already.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1130
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,280
You know, he did that film with
Michelle Pfeiffer where he's

1131
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,360
like, you know, 30 years older
than her.

1132
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,640
And there were a couple.
And he did that film with Daryl

1133
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,360
Hannah and Deborah Winger, same
sort of thing.

1134
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,560
And, you know, those movies were
pretty bad even for 80s

1135
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:45,920
standards.
But also, I mean, Redford was a

1136
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,320
producer.
I mean, what he did with

1137
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,120
Sundance and all that, Like he
was, he was a film guy.

1138
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:54,120
And I think when you look at
Newman, like Newman was a stage

1139
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,960
guy, like what he did with
Joanne Woodward, you know, like

1140
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,880
really bringing people into the
theater so they could come up

1141
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,960
then into film, you know, so,
so, so many people.

1142
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:09,760
I feel like Pitt does that more
with his production company Plan

1143
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:15,800
B, because he produces so many
TV shows and so many movies that

1144
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,760
it's really incredible.
Not to say that Tom Cruise

1145
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,400
doesn't, but Tom Cruise
definitely has that.

1146
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:26,320
Like what do you still doing
this in your 50s, sixties for

1147
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:30,720
kind of vibe like Redford was in
the like mid to late 80s, early

1148
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:34,000
90s.
You know, a decent proposal with

1149
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,880
Woody Harrelson, Demi Moore in
their 30s and him in his like

1150
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:41,040
mid 60s in the 90s.
Like that kind?

1151
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:42,160
Of.
Reminds me of Cruise.

1152
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,920
If you put if you put Brad Pitt
in that movie today and you

1153
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,560
know, freaking Adam Driver and
Scarlett Johansson or somebody.

1154
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,200
And yeah, but I'm just.
Saying Pitt doesn't have to pay.

1155
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,360
That's dude, that's.
All I'm saying, all I can think

1156
01:05:56,360 --> 01:06:00,840
about right now is network in in
network when the whole movie,

1157
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,800
they're calling these like 67
year old men, middle-aged.

1158
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,120
Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah.

1159
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,040
That's like a major point of
yours in that episode, Brad.

1160
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:11,920
You're like, where's the middle
of middle age?

1161
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,560
Network Network is a 10 out of
10 movie.

1162
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,800
I don't know if it understands
what middle-aged is.

1163
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,560
Like we we do have to be
barreling towards a pit and Cruz

1164
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,840
re team up just because of the
interview with the vampire stuff

1165
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,520
and the fact that that was
successful, especially for Cruz,

1166
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,600
like that was him like really
sort of breaking out of that.

1167
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,480
Like you're just a good looking,
fun, funny guy.

1168
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,840
You know, like obviously I'm
born on the 4th of July before

1169
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,440
that Rain Man, but he was always
sort of the Dick.

1170
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,400
And then he does interview with
a vampire where people take him

1171
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,800
seriously as a character actor a
little bit, which then puts him

1172
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:53,480
on a run.
That's insane, because then he

1173
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,520
does Mission Impossible, Jerry
Maguire as wise shut Mingolia

1174
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,240
like back-to-back, which is, you
know, for insane.

1175
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,400
And then Mission Impossible 2
and it's like, oh, OK, we're

1176
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,120
going to reset now.
And then Vanilla Sky.

1177
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,440
Oh man, no, but.
Then Minority Report.

1178
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:13,560
Yeah, it bounces back
eventually, right?

1179
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:15,680
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guys, I think this is actually

1180
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:17,480
now that we're just naming
movies at each other.

1181
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,320
I think this is actually a
really good point in the podcast

1182
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,880
for us to get into our last
segment of the day, which we

1183
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,240
call let's make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1184
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,600
episodes of Things, listening to
the film and Whiskey Show.

1185
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:31,560
Let's pair another film with
this one.

1186
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:33,840
Even if it's struggling.
It's the final segment of the

1187
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,280
day.
Now let's make it a double.

1188
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,800
Let's Make It a Double is where
we pick a movie to pair up with

1189
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,160
this one to make the perfect
double feature.

1190
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,960
Guys, I'm going to jump in and
give mine first here because

1191
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,800
I've been thinking about it all
day here.

1192
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,680
And Brad, you alluded to the
Movie Network, and one of the

1193
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:53,000
films that I recently saw at
Regal in their lineup was Dog

1194
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,720
Day Afternoon, a movie that I
have not revisited since we

1195
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,680
watched it for the podcast.
I freaking love Dog Day

1196
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:03,080
Afternoon.
And I forgot how the like the

1197
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:07,160
slow reveals about Al Pacino's
character of Sonny in that movie

1198
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,480
happen.
And in the first hour of it,

1199
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:15,080
it's really a movie about the
interplay between crime and

1200
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:18,520
media and people's desire to be
in the spotlight.

1201
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,359
And I'd say all that to say,
that's not even the movie I'm

1202
01:08:22,359 --> 01:08:24,800
picking.
But it made me think about how

1203
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,279
this is like a a sub genre of
movie.

1204
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:31,200
And I recently revisited a movie
that I can't wait for us to.

1205
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,840
Men in tights.
Yes, I can't wait for us to get

1206
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:36,640
to this actual movie on the
show, Brad.

1207
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:37,920
Hopefully in the next season or
two.

1208
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:42,640
I'm I'm going to pick 1967's
Bonnie and Clyde, which is one

1209
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:47,359
of the most revolutionary movies
in the history of American

1210
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:49,600
cinema.
From the way it's edited and

1211
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,399
shot to how shocking the
violence and sex is in that

1212
01:08:53,399 --> 01:08:57,240
movie to the point where like
you know, the the ending barrage

1213
01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:01,520
of violence feels like you are
just hurtling towards this

1214
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,399
almost anti climax.
And then Bonnie and Clyde are

1215
01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:06,600
killed and the movie cuts to
black and it's over.

1216
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,319
And it reminded me so much of
spoiler alert.

1217
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:12,399
Yeah, I know, right?
It's almost like calling your

1218
01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:14,520
movie The Assassination of Jesse
James.

1219
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,359
It reminded me so much of how
this movie ends, but how much

1220
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:24,319
the Bonnie and Clyde story was
about two bumbling idiots who

1221
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:29,760
were just horned up and wanting
to like live in the fast lane

1222
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:35,399
and how America mythologized
them into being these ingenious

1223
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:38,279
bank robbers and they were
constantly in love with the

1224
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:40,200
image that was being created for
them.

1225
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,120
And yet the real people behind
that were nothing like it.

1226
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,040
It was such a fascinating
treatise on that and and this

1227
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:49,840
movie I think relies heavily on
the legacy of Bonnie and Clyde.

1228
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:51,080
So I think it's a perfect match
up.

1229
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,640
Excellent choice.
It also gave us Gene Wilder.

1230
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,880
Yeah.
And Gene Hackman.

1231
01:09:56,480 --> 01:10:00,880
And Gene Hackman, the two genes.
There you go, Gene Squared.

1232
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,280
That's a great choice, man.
That's that's an interesting

1233
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,720
film for sure.
And it's a great way to like

1234
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:09,800
just keep that same mythos track
going.

1235
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:11,200
That's really, really good
choice.

1236
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:16,200
I think for me, I am going to
focus on the characters within

1237
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:21,840
the story and I think that with
my Let's make it a Double, we're

1238
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:25,160
going to follow Big Little into
into Parks and Rec.

1239
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:29,600
Yes, that's the same actor I
forgot about.

1240
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,160
That hey, by the way, not the
first time Paul Schrader has

1241
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:33,960
been on this podcast.
Brad, do you remember where

1242
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:39,120
we've seen him before?
Give me a year he 2000 in the

1243
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,840
movie. 2005, 2006 Elizabeth.
Town.

1244
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,720
Yes, he was the cousin who
played drums in Elizabeth.

1245
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:50,120
I pulled that so far out of
where the sun don't shine.

1246
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,360
Another perfect film, Brad, but
please proceed.

1247
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,320
So for my Let's Make It a
Double, I'm going to focus on

1248
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,920
the characters inside the movie.
I think you should watch The

1249
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,160
Assassination of Jesse James by
the Coward Robert Ford first

1250
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,600
because the narrating main
character starts off in a place

1251
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:15,320
of love and ends in a place of
hate, and the movie I'm going to

1252
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:18,120
pair it with starts in a place
of hate and moves to a place of

1253
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:19,720
love.
I think you should watch

1254
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,880
Amadeus.
There's a ton of Amadeus in this

1255
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,440
movie.
For sure, yeah.

1256
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,120
I, I think following that
pattern of like Salieri starts

1257
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:30,320
in a place of hatred towards
Mozart and jealousy and rage.

1258
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:34,640
And by the end of it, he has
this like, it's not even like a

1259
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:38,400
begrudging respect.
It's like a weird fanatical,

1260
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,360
like obsession with him that I
just.

1261
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:46,000
I, I think that that interplay
between the two movies would be,

1262
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:47,920
would be really interesting.
Yeah.

1263
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:50,560
I mean, he turns Mozart into his
God, yeah.

1264
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:51,440
Exactly.
I mean.

1265
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:55,040
Yeah, which is ridiculous, but
poignant.

1266
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:57,600
So I mean maybe, maybe the
opposite would be better.

1267
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:01,160
Start off with hatred, move
towards idolizing, go to

1268
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,400
idolizing, make yourself an idol
and die.

1269
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:09,160
The way we all have to the path
we all have to find where we

1270
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,120
don't have Moses.
No, that's good as well.

1271
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,160
Because it is.
That is a great movie for

1272
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,880
mythologizing as well, you know.
Yeah.

1273
01:12:19,480 --> 01:12:21,880
You know, I mean, just
notoriously one of the most

1274
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:25,360
historically inaccurate films
after what Braveheart probably,

1275
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,160
but effective.
Like goes back to the point with

1276
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,800
Dick and Wood hi in this film
where it's like, take some

1277
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,880
artistic license and move this
along.

1278
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,360
I just really wish that Casey
Affleck had picked up the pistol

1279
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,280
that Brad Pitt gets him and
looks at and goes the nickel.

1280
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,080
It shines in the light.
Perfect little piccolo.

1281
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:52,240
Yeah, perfect dude.
That's good.

1282
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,480
I'm going to go back to the
1980s, gentlemen.

1283
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,480
So I actually grew up on this
movie.

1284
01:13:01,480 --> 01:13:05,760
It's called The Long Riders and
it's Walter Hill Western.

1285
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:11,640
And it had, it's actually, it
had a gimmick which a lot of

1286
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,200
people didn't like at the time,
but I think works amazingly.

1287
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:19,000
All the brothers from the the
James younger game and all the

1288
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,560
people are all played by actual
brothers.

1289
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,760
So the James are James Keach and
Stacey Keach.

1290
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,480
The Millers are Dennis Quaid and
Randy Quaid.

1291
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,120
The Youngers are David Keith and
Robert Carradine.

1292
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:33,360
And the Fords are Christopher
Guest and Nicholas Guest.

1293
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,600
And like, oh wow, Christopher
Guest like that Christopher

1294
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,600
Guest.
And so what's great about this

1295
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:44,200
film is this film covers like
everything from kind of the end

1296
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:49,480
of the Civil War to basically
where assassination starts.

1297
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:54,600
And so it the big climax of the
film is the Minnesota robbery

1298
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,400
that went wrong.
We're all everybody gets killed.

1299
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,680
Basically we're Ed Miller's
brother gets killed and the

1300
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,240
Youngers get killed.
And and at the very end is when

1301
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:08,600
Charlie and Bob come in like to
join the gang and the film tacks

1302
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,120
on like A5 not even 5 minute
like a 2 minute scene where

1303
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:16,480
Frank comes back to take his
brother's like casket to go be

1304
01:14:16,480 --> 01:14:19,720
buried.
And so they tack tack on like

1305
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,720
the death of Jesse James by the
Coward Robert Ford.

1306
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:28,440
But that's not the film at all.
The film is sort of them dealing

1307
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:34,680
with being losers from the
Confederacy in the world and

1308
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:38,040
resorting to crime.
And he he just sort of like turn

1309
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,840
the movie off there and start
the assassination of Jesse James

1310
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,640
by the Coward Robert Ford.
It is perfect because it is

1311
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,760
picking up and the literally the
next and last robbery they do.

1312
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:52,000
But again, the brothers make
sense and they actually work in

1313
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,480
this sense, you know, especially
with the Carradines.

1314
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,560
I mean, they were Keaches are
great actors.

1315
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:00,000
Like these are all really good
actors.

1316
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:01,440
I'll have to.
Check this movie out, man.

1317
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:04,360
I like, I've I've never heard of
the movie before, but you've

1318
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:06,480
sold it to me now.
Especially the Randy Quaid

1319
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:08,200
anecdote.
That's what really put it over

1320
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:11,680
over the top for me, man.
So let's let's review here.

1321
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,960
You're picking the long riders.
I am picking Bonnie and Clyde.

1322
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:16,880
Brad, you are picking what was
it again?

1323
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,280
Amadeus.
Amadeus That's right, a

1324
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:22,600
quadruple feature for the ages
here, guys.

1325
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,360
Back-to-back to back-to-back
before we move into final

1326
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,400
scores.
We really haven't talked at all

1327
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:31,360
about Rodger Deakins.
You know, Zach, you've hinted at

1328
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,840
it a couple times.
Deakins is just the goat, man.

1329
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,520
Like, this movie is beautiful.
I think one of the things that I

1330
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,160
wanted to make sure that we
pointed out was the way that

1331
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:47,040
Deakins uses lenses and panes of
glass for like very specific

1332
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:51,320
purposes in this movie.
So like, you know, when when

1333
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,840
you're viewing something through
like one of those old tin type

1334
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,080
cameras, like when they're
taking the picture of Jesse

1335
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,160
James's dead body at the end of
the movie, there's that sort of

1336
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,600
distortion along the sides of
the camera.

1337
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,880
But Deacons does that at
multiple points throughout the

1338
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,800
movie, whether it's just like
looking at a landscape or a

1339
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,320
couple times it's like Bob Ford
is looking out the window at

1340
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,440
Jesse's house down at like
Jesse's kids.

1341
01:16:14,440 --> 01:16:17,800
And you get the distortion of
like that old WAVY glass in a

1342
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:20,120
window.
And I just love the way that

1343
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:23,440
they insert those shots into the
movie as a way of kind of

1344
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,920
putting you off off kilter a bit
and putting you in a sense of

1345
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,320
like unease.
And also commenting on this idea

1346
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:35,200
of like, the lenses that we view
these people through are

1347
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,800
distorted by the stories we have
been told about them.

1348
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,640
I just like it.
It never became overbearing for

1349
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,760
me 'cause I think a kind of
visual metaphor like that really

1350
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,840
could be.
But you know, once again, I

1351
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,200
don't know how much we need to
comment on it.

1352
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:52,320
Brad Rodger Deakins good at
filming things.

1353
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,240
Who who knew what a great
photographer of film.

1354
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,160
Absolutely.
And also, what a year?

1355
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,320
I mean, 2007.
I mean, this is no country for

1356
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:03,840
old men.
There will be blood.

1357
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,800
This like, super bad.
Like there's so many.

1358
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:08,960
This was a great, great year for
cinema.

1359
01:17:09,440 --> 01:17:11,840
And Rodger Deakins still loves
this movie The most.

1360
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:16,000
Yeah, man.
And deacons did No Country and

1361
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,840
this movie in the same year,
which is just.

1362
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:20,720
That's freaking staggering, man.
Yeah.

1363
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:25,880
You know what's funny is I just
rewatch No Country and Llewellyn

1364
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,000
is a country rube.
He's one of the dumb asses, just

1365
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:30,640
like.
Just like watching that movie.

1366
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:32,760
Can you stop being so goddamn
stupid?

1367
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:35,760
That's brolin's so good.
I love that movie though man.

1368
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,520
I love that movie so much all.
Right.

1369
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,440
Well, I think on that note, it's
time for us to get into final

1370
01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:44,040
scores here.
I suspect I'm going to be kind

1371
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,640
of in between the two of you.
I've definitely cooled on this

1372
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,840
movie over the years.
I think that it is over long.

1373
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,840
And yet I'm curious about
whether a longer cut of the

1374
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:55,240
movie may have actually improved
my experience.

1375
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,760
But the cut that we got, it
seems to me that they trimmed

1376
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:02,200
parts that I would have
preferred to explore more, and

1377
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,360
they left in parts that felt
fatty to me.

1378
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:08,240
And I think that I'm going to
come down from where I was when

1379
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:10,400
I saw this movie at like 18 or
whatever.

1380
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,000
And I was like, this is an art
film.

1381
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,040
This is what films are supposed
to be like when they're poetic,

1382
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,200
right?
I've definitely come down a

1383
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:19,960
step.
I still think overall this is a

1384
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:22,760
very successful movie.
Brad, I'm going to land an 8 out

1385
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:26,840
of 10 on this movie.
I, I give this like a four out

1386
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:31,360
of 10 the first time around.
I don't think it's that bad that

1387
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:35,840
like I've got, I've kind of
realized in our 5-6 years of

1388
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:40,600
doing this, like if I'm at under
a six out of 10, we're getting

1389
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:45,840
into like bad movie territory.
I, I'm going to give this, I

1390
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:47,920
think you guys have talked me up
a little bit.

1391
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:49,920
I'll give this a 6 1/2 out of
10.

1392
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:54,480
It doesn't work for me.
I, I really don't enjoy it that

1393
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:56,760
much.
I recognize what deacons was

1394
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,920
doing.
I think that the ideas of

1395
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:03,880
mythologizing and for trying to
create himself into an idol is,

1396
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:07,240
is interesting.
Probably not enough for me to

1397
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,640
ever return to it.
That's fair.

1398
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,760
I think that's totally fair.
I think if Warner Brothers

1399
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:14,920
hadn't hacked this movie up in
the edit.

1400
01:19:15,480 --> 01:19:17,680
Yeah.
We would have had like a nine

1401
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:19,400
out of 10 movie, you know what I
mean?

1402
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,840
Maybe maybe even a 10 out of 10
if you can just be believed.

1403
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,760
I can see the, I can see the
bones of that in this.

1404
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:30,200
I I just think there's a lot
that needed to be cut and then a

1405
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:33,800
little expansion on who Robert
Ford was post killing.

1406
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,160
And yeah, this could be a nine
out of 10 movie.

1407
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,360
Yeah, and that's, and I've
actually cut because I read the

1408
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,080
script, it made me come down on
it as well because of what we

1409
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:46,840
got was so inferior to what we
should have gotten, especially

1410
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:52,800
that can cut was, you know, this
was so frustrating when a studio

1411
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,720
doesn't believe in what they
have or can't see the forest for

1412
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:56,960
the trees, however you want to
put it.

1413
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:02,240
I'm going to give it a 7 1/2.
I think it's, I think I love

1414
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:04,240
this movie to death and I watch
it once a year.

1415
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,920
But now having read the script,
it's kind of just like, God damn

1416
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:11,880
this got butchered.
Yeah, man.

1417
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:13,880
You know, I mean, I'm still
going to keep watching this

1418
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:15,400
movie.
Don't get me wrong, I love it

1419
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,920
for what it is.
But you know, it's just, it's a

1420
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,320
damn shame this movie isn't what
it should have been.

1421
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,600
Yeah, for sure.
Wow.

1422
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:26,400
All right.
That's the business, right?

1423
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:30,720
That's the movie's boys.
Zach Zach is the rare guest that

1424
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,320
picked his movie and then came
in and gave it a 7 1/2.

1425
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:35,600
You're the guy that we talk shit
about all the time, Zach.

1426
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:37,480
Like who?
Who would do that?

1427
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:41,720
It's you, my friend.
Now see if we had finished this

1428
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,480
before I read the script, I was
going to be like 9 all day.

1429
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,000
Wow, that's.
We need to read the script,

1430
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:50,560
Brad.
Yeah, that's a big.

1431
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,720
Bounce down now, Zach, can you
think of any movies that were

1432
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,200
the opposite happened where you
read the script and you're like,

1433
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:00,000
how did we get this masterpiece
based on this script?

1434
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,880
Groundhog Day is 1.
OK.

1435
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,760
Because Groundhog Groundhog Day
has this whole subplot, whereas

1436
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:10,880
he's actually been cursed by an
ex-girlfriend who's a witch, and

1437
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,280
the whole thing is him getting
out of that curse.

1438
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:20,760
And thankfully Harold Raimi's
got rid of all that to the point

1439
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:23,640
where they didn't even film it.
There's like, I'm not doing any

1440
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:24,680
of that.
That's stupid.

1441
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,240
And so, yeah, I mean that's.
That's thank God for that.

1442
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:31,840
Yeah.
An example of the beauty of the

1443
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,440
director doing the right thing.
Well, there you go.

1444
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:37,600
All right, Zach, give us a quick
plug.

1445
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:39,560
What are you guys been working
on at Blackwood and what can we

1446
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:40,800
expect here in the coming
months?

1447
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,080
And where, crucially, can we
find you to purchase a bottle of

1448
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:47,000
your delicious juice?
Yeah.

1449
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:49,520
Thank you guys so much for
having me on again and have let

1450
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:55,120
me talk about Moses and Brad
Pitt was it's been a delight.

1451
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,680
So Blackwood Distilling Company
or Distilling Co, we based in

1452
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:02,640
Kentucky, we're available in
Texas, Florida, Wyoming.

1453
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:07,000
We're about to launch in Nevada
next week, California this

1454
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,160
month.
We're also in DC.

1455
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:11,240
We're going to be launching in
New York later this year.

1456
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:13,600
We're going to be launching in
Germany, France and Denmark

1457
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,720
November 1st.
We're launching in Australia

1458
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,320
mid-october.
So I'm going to make sure Andrew

1459
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:21,480
Tommen gets a.
Puddle.

1460
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:25,640
They actually have done re
screens of this film several

1461
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:27,320
times in Australia, including
this year.

1462
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,240
So I I'm going to show up with a
bottle and.

1463
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:33,840
If you want to, if you want to
really quickly go and that's why

1464
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,560
I think The Assassination of
Jesse James by the Coward Rob

1465
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,400
before it is a 10 out of 10
film.

1466
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:40,520
We will send that to Andrew.
Donald, do it.

1467
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:43,120
Do it while holding the bottle,
like right next to your face.

1468
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,760
Yeah.
I I have a feeling he'll agree

1469
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,680
with me that Warner Brothers
butchered his film, but yeah,

1470
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:51,960
so, yeah, Blackwood.
You can also get it online at

1471
01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:57,360
Bourbon outfitter.com, which we
shipped to 44 states now if you

1472
01:22:57,360 --> 01:22:58,840
happen to be in.
Probably not Ohio.

1473
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:05,680
Probably not Ohio, working on
Ohio, probably be late 2026 when

1474
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:10,000
we get in there.
We are working on a big play

1475
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,040
right now with grocery store
chain and if that happens,

1476
01:23:13,480 --> 01:23:17,800
that'll open up more ABC states
that are a bit more closed for

1477
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:21,200
us just because it's it's
automatic distribution sort of

1478
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:22,040
thing.
It's great.

1479
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,200
We are the official American
whiskey sponsor of North

1480
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:28,480
America's 50 best restaurants,
which is part of the world's

1481
01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:32,480
fifty best group.
So we're going to be doing a big

1482
01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:34,600
activation at the win in Vegas
next week.

1483
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:37,480
You'll see that online.
If you follow them on YouTube or

1484
01:23:37,480 --> 01:23:41,240
Instagram, you'll see us there.
And you know, we're very, we

1485
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:45,760
have a lot of very good and
hopefully sustainable growth

1486
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:50,280
because we're we're focusing on
markets that I think are very

1487
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:51,680
interested in what we're doing.
So.

1488
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,520
But we can't say enough great
things about the brand, man,

1489
01:23:54,760 --> 01:24:00,120
that I've said it before, the
one O 5 rye is like that is that

1490
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:03,680
is like the platonic ideal of a
film and WW where the price

1491
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:06,840
point is just right.
The the proof point is right in

1492
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:09,280
our sweet spot.
You know, Brad and I are both

1493
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:11,720
lovers of rye as something
different, right?

1494
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:15,640
And that is just like the notes
that you pick up on that rye are

1495
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:18,440
among the best that we've tried
in the history of this podcast,

1496
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:20,600
man.
So yeah, Zach, I got to say

1497
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,920
thank you for your continued
support of the show and thank

1498
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:27,000
you for joining us today, man.
No, thank you, guys.

1499
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,600
I mean, it's sort of, you know,
we, we can't do what we do

1500
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:33,200
without, without support.
And I've always, you know, been

1501
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,680
a huge fan of what you guys do
and you're, let's just say

1502
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,360
vercillimitude when discussing
film and whiskey.

1503
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:44,080
And you know, it's, it's also,
you know, it's just a, it's a

1504
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:46,120
fun time to always come on here
and talk with you guys.

1505
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,760
And it's always fun to share a
drink as well, for sure.

1506
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:50,360
Yeah, dude, it's a blessing to
know you.

1507
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:53,640
Film and Whiskey Nation.
We will be back next week with

1508
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:57,200
another regularly scheduled
episode, but until then, I'm Bob

1509
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:59,120
Book.
I'm Brad G.

1510
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:00,960
And we'll see you next time.