Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi / Jim Beam Single Barrel Bourbon

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In 2017, director Rian Johnson
and star Mark Hamill gave the

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role a supposedly beautiful slap
in the face to every Star Wars

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fan in the Galaxy.
I'd like to give you a

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supposedly beautiful slap in the
face sometimes, man.

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IN2000I I.
Control my part of the writing

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for the show you.
You take control of yours.

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Now that I know that I could
threaten violence, I definitely

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will.
In 2024, we continue our trip

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through one of America's
favorite budget bourbon brands.

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The film is Star Wars episode 8
The Last Jedi.

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The whiskey is Jim Beam Single
Barrel.

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And we'll review them both.
This is.

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The Film and Whiskey podcast
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad G.
And Brad, it is the moment that

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you and I and Film and Whiskey
Nation have all been waiting

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for.
I was telling you right before

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we pressed record, I have
literally been circling this

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film on the Film and Whiskey
docket for five years.

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Man, I've got a whole playlist
of videos on YouTube to help me

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try to break down my position on
this movie because I, I don't

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know if it's true, but in my
mind, Brad, this is one of the

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films that launched the Film and
Whiskey podcast.

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Like I feel like we had started
talking about this movie and our

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differences upon it and and then
that spun off into let's do a

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podcast.
And you thought to yourself, man

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this is the perfect Co host for
my show.

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You know what, maybe you're
right, maybe this wasn't

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something we discussed, 'cause
that doesn't sound like

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something I would do is, hey,
let's, let's debate like this

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for five years.
Here's my question for you, Bob.

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According to all the things
you've known about me over the

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years, how much preparation do
you think I did for this

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episode?
So here, well, let me answer

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your question with a riveting
story, Brad.

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I am old and out of shape and
beaten down by life.

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Now.
I am not this rightly young man

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I was five years ago.
Sure.

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And so, you know, in doing prep
for this episode, I gotta be

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honest with you, man, I don't
have the energy for arguing with

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you that I used to.
I just can't do it as much.

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So I might just tap out after
like 15 minutes.

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Sure.
All that to say, I have been

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going through like a tremendous
amount of anxiety over this

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episode because I don't know
which Brad G is going to show up

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to this episode.
Oh, how many Brad G's are there?

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Way too many, man.
You are a wild card, my friend.

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And I don't know what your what
energy you're going to bring.

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Sometimes I don't know if it's
going to be the snarky smart

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ass.
I didn't do any research and I'm

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just here to cause anarchy, Brad
G And so sometimes I bank on

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that and I know that I can just
easily trump you with facts.

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But then sometimes.
Like, like Ben Shapiro, Yeah.

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Facts and lots.
I don't care about your

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feelings, Brad, but then
sometimes you hate a movie so

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much that you too want to get
one over on me via facts and

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figures.
And so it's possible that you've

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done a tremendous amount of
research.

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And I had this moment today
where I was like, I have to

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refresh myself on all of my
talking points because Brad

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might come into this one hot and
ready to go.

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So all that to say, dude, I have
no idea how much research or

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prep you did for this movie and
I'm a little bit nervous because

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when you do, when you do
research, you are a worthy

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adversary.
I have 22 pages of types notes.

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Do you really?
100%.

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Like what?
What size font?

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12 OK single spaced, double
spaced EBEB.

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Garamond, I think it's 1.15, so
you know, not quite single

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spaced.
It is bullet pointed.

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So, you know, you kind of lose
a, there's a little extra empty

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space here and there.
Just a quick aside as we dive

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into before we start the
bloodbath here, Brad.

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Yeah.
My stupid Windows updated and it

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looks like Microsoft Word now
has a new default font called

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Aptos.
What Edit sucks dude.

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Like it's a cool looking font
but in terms of legibility I had

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to like magnify the page.
Yeah, if I keep it at 11 point

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font, it's awful.
It's it's another example of how

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some people think that they can
drag people into the future

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without their consent.
And.

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When they do a poor job of it,
it isn't received well.

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Seems like this is a perfect
segue into talking about The

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Last Jedi.
Oh, nailed it.

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OK, so Brad, we know you don't
like this movie.

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We, I think people understand
that I do like this movie.

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I haven't really revealed how
much yet, but spoiler alert,

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it's a whole heck of a lot.
I like this movie a lot, but I

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want to set the stage here a
little bit.

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You are the guy who has regaled
us with stories about skipping

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school to go see Star Wars, how
it is the most impactful media

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IP on your life ever.
And so I have to imagine this

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film being a disappointment to
you was a very crushing blow.

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But can you give us the story of
how you came to 1st encounter

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The Last Jedi?
Yeah, so it was while we were

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living in Kentucky, attending
seminary, and I went, this is

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probably one of the biggest
groups of people I've ever gone

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with to see a film.
There was, there's a variety of

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people in the group.
There were lifelong Star Wars

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fans.
There were people there who had

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maybe seen one or two of the
Star Wars movies.

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And they were just going, 'cause
there was a group like, like we

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truly ran the gambit of, of
levels of Star Wars knowledge,

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right?
I, I walked out of that film

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with my friend Melody, my
friends Melody and Thomas

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Hickey.
Who do you you actually know

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Bob?
And we literally almost cried

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together.
We were so angry about this

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movie like that.
There were so many moments in

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this film.
There's only a few movies that

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I've like laughed out loud at
for how ridiculous they were.

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And this one almost was.
But I, every time I almost

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laughed at something, I would
realize how just cruel the

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decisions were from a
directorial standpoint and it

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would just make me angry.
And so, you know, compared to

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something like Rise of
Skywalker, which I, I, I think

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is just purely a bad film, like,
like it's just poorly made, but

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it's not intentionally harmful.
Like, like truly like when you

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look at some of the stuff that's
come out about JJ and what's

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his, what's the guy's name who
wrote Argo that?

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Chris Torrio.
Is that it?

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Or therio, yeah, he, he helped
right Rise the skyward.

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When you watch the stuff about
them, they literally just seem

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like bumbling fools.
And so I kind of like, I'm like,

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yeah, you've ruined the
franchise in some ways.

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But the the franchise was
already ruined by The Last Jedi.

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So I think that's why weirdly, I
I have less hatred for Rise of

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Skywalker and I'm just more
amused by it and I'll never

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watch it again.
The Last Jedi I have some real

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animosity towards.
And it started it.

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It started from the very first
time I saw it.

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OK, so let, let let me, Frank,
hold on.

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Hold on.
Oh.

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No, no, no.
Give me one more thing, OK?

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I've seen it three Times Now.
I watched it in theaters.

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I watched it about two, probably
about two years later when I was

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living in Saint Louis with my
just me and my wife.

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And Haley's final verdict on the
movie was that was way too long

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and it didn't resemble a Star
Wars movie.

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And I said yes.
And now I've watched it a third

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time, about almost, I don't
know, 7-8 years later.

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Yeah.
OK, So first of all, I will give

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you your credit.
You have done your due

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diligence.
You have given this movie a fair

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shake.
You don't like it, that's fine.

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You know what I mean?
That's fine.

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I do love that in my my question
was tell me about seeing it for

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the first time and you spent
like 20% on the seeing of it and

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80% editorializing about the
maliciousness of Rian Johnson.

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But I think it gets to a good
point.

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And it's something that I guess
is one of my, like, I don't want

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to say theories about Star Wars
fans, but the thing that I think

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drives the hatred for this movie
and you kind of hinted at it, is

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that Rise of Skywalker is just a
poorly made film.

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There is just very little skill
behind that.

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It is thrown together.
It seems like they were trying

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to cobble together some
semblance of a Star Wars movie

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from what they perceived to be
the wreckage of Rian Johnson.

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And I understand that, but they
scrambled too hard.

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And it sounds like I in a weird
way, it's almost like a credit

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to Rian Johnson because people
think that he is maliciously

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tearing down Star Wars.
And I think in acknowledging

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that, you're kind of also
acknowledging that it is at

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least competently made, that you
can see the intent behind it,

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even if you interpret that
intent as malicious.

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I think we're definitely talking
about two different types of

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movie here, between The Last
Jedi and Rise of Skywalker,

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where one is completely inept
and then this one is competently

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made but possibly evil in its
intentions.

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Is that fair to say?
No, I wouldn't say it's fair to

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say, Bob.
You don't think this is

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competently made either?
No, I don't.

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Oh, interesting.
I I.

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Think that the script is
horrendously bad like.

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True.
Come on.

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OK, let's.
The hot takes are just just

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dripping off of your tongue
right now.

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Let's just press pause for a
second.

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Let's throw over to our first
segment of the day, which we

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call, Brad explains.
Brad's going to give us the

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movie plots with only 60 seconds
ticking on the clock, so let's

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go ahead and hear your take with
this little segment that we

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call, Brad explains.
Brad Explains is the part of the

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podcast where Brad breaks down
the plot of the movie that he

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has just seen.
Now for the third time Brad I I

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know that we will get very
little plot and a whole lot of

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your opinion of the plot.
You're gonna get, you're gonna

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get all the plot, all right.
You're gonna get all all the

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plot, Bob, all the plotting that
you want.

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You have 60 seconds to break
down the plot of The Last Jedi

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now folks, if you have not seen
The Last Jedi, man, welcome into

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the debate.
You should go see the movie for

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yourself, decide what you think
of it, and then come back and

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engage with whatever the hell
we're about to say.

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But Brad is going to spoil this
whole movie.

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So 60 seconds on the clock, Brad
and go.

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Star Wars Episode 8 The Last
Jedi is a film that follows the

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1st Order as it tries to finish
off the Resistance.

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As they're escaping from a base,
they engage in a battle where

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hero Poe Dameron takes out a
dreadnought, is reprimanded and

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demoted for refusing to follow
orders.

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Ray, meanwhile, tries to
convince Luke to help the

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Resistance.
However, he is quite grumpy and

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dismissive of her desire to
learn about the Force and have

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him help the Resistance.
Back to the Resistance.

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The Resistance jumps into
hyperspace.

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They're caught by the 1st Order
because they have a new tracking

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technology that tracks ships
through hyperspace.

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In order to escape this tracking
technology, they try to go to a

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casino planet, find a master
code breaker, try to sneak onto

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the 1st Order ship and disable
the tracking beacon.

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However, they get betrayed by
the Code Breaker, and he lets

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them know that they're actually
trying to abandon the main ship

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onto a small planet nearby named
Crate.

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On this planet of Crate, a small
minority of the Resistance makes

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it to the planet, sets up a
defense, tries to defend against

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the 1st Order, is unable to, but
Luke steps in, projects himself

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from across the Galaxy and has a
conversation with Kylo Ren.

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Disappears and then dies, but he
allows the Resistance the

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Resistance to find time to
escape.

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The end.
Brad, I'll let you go for a

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minute and a half on that one
because that was a really good

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summary of the film.
And did anyone interrupt this?

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00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,760
You know, you, you can do the
task without editorializing.

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Let it be known.
I, I will, I will say that up

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front, I think where I would
like to start, Brad, and I know

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that I can't stop you from
trashing this film.

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So let's lean into it a little
bit and let's let you speak your

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piece.
What I want to separate is your

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00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,840
expectations of a Star Wars
movie and how this falls short

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as a Star Wars movie.
And then on the flip side, how

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you think this falls short as a
competently made film?

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But I think we should start with
the Star Wars expectations.

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We are in our third week of Star
Wars movies here.

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We did The Force Awakens and
Rogue One.

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Now we've watched The Last Jedi
and this is now what Brad, the

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00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,080
9th Star Wars film that we've
done on the podcast.

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The only remaining ones would be
Rise of Skywalker and Solo.

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And I can say confidently those
will not be reviewed on this

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00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,040
podcast anytime soon.
I would do a Rise of Skywalker

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00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,160
trash film.
Review, sure, maybe as a Patreon

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00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,000
says, yeah, we'll be really
drunk and just yeah, that'd be

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00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,520
fun.
So you have high expectations

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00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,360
for and, and not even beyond
expectations.

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00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,120
You have a good understanding of
what makes a Star Wars movie a

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00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,040
Star Wars movie.
I think it's going to be

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00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,800
completely different from what I
think makes a Star Wars movie

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00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,760
and what makes a good Star Wars
movie.

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00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,880
But you're also a massive Star
Wars super fan.

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You've read books, you have been
inundated in the culture of Star

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00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,600
Wars.
So how does The Last Jedi fall

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00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,160
short in that regard?
I think I've been thinking about

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00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,720
this a lot.
I think that if you really boil

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00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:16,120
everything about Star Wars down
to its basic core, what you have

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00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,440
are really interesting
characters who face very

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00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:28,000
difficult challenges, are forced
to change and adapt and grow and

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00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,520
fail and, and do all of the
things.

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00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,160
And because of their
relationships with one another,

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00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:39,600
because of the growth that they
experience as a result of

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00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,640
failure most of the time,
throughout all the films, they

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00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,000
become something better than
they could have been alone.

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00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:52,200
They they move beyond the
Tatooine deserts and into a

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00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,920
horizon that they've always been
dreaming of, right?

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00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:02,520
Like that, that is the core of
the Star Wars films that that

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00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,400
people, when given the right
environment, when given the

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00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,040
right people around them, when
given the right challenge to

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00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,720
rise up to meet that they are
going to become something great.

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00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,840
And I, I think that that kind of
hits the core of Star Wars

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00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,160
across the board, whether it's
in the books, whether it's the

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00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,240
video games, whether it's the
movies.

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00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,000
And I'll, I'll fully say like,
let's, let's throw out the books

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00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,000
throughout the video games.
Like this originally was a film

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00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,840
series.
We can talk about it as a film

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00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,000
series.
I I don't think you need or

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00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,280
should have to play the video
games.

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00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,040
Read the books to understand
that core point about Star Wars.

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00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,960
Is that fair?
Absolutely.

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00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,920
I mean that, listen, if if we're
going to agree on anything, it's

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00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,320
that I don't think you need
supplemental materials or should

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00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,320
rely on supplemental materials
to appreciate a movie.

282
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:02,520
Yeah, 100% and I I think that
but but also my point being

283
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,200
interesting character
development is at the core of

284
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,119
Star Wars.
Is that a fair?

285
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,880
I could not have said it better
myself.

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00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,760
No 100% Brad all.
Right.

287
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,160
Let's let's keep going then
We're we're on the same page,

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00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,119
Bob.
We are, it's, it's real weird

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00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,920
how we are arriving at
completely opposite ends of the

290
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,920
spectrum while maintaining the
exact same ethos about what

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00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,920
makes a good start 'cause I, you
said that.

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00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,160
And I'm like, this movie does
that perhaps better than any

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00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,720
other Star Wars film.
So now I'm really interested to

294
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,920
hear how it doesn't do that.
Yeah, I, I this is where this is

295
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,160
where it's gonna get spicy.
Bob.

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00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:51,200
Here's the thing.
Why can't we make strong new

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00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,280
characters, which I'm all about,
without having to kill off the

298
00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,400
old characters, literally and
figuratively?

299
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,360
Metaphorically, like the.
The big problem with this movie

300
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:12,080
is that Rian Johnson has an
obsession with themes that he

301
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:17,160
thinks are interesting and he
has a complete inability to

302
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,640
actually engage with the
characters where they are at.

303
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:28,600
All of the characters are
subject to his themes that he is

304
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,080
going to ham fistedly shove down
your throat throughout the

305
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,720
entire film.
OK.

306
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,200
And can you connect that to how
this fails on the front of what

307
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,920
makes a good Star Wars movie?
Well.

308
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,600
Like what are the themes that
you think he's ham fistedly

309
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,920
forcing down our throats here?
And, and how does that undermine

310
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,680
the the ideas of sacrifice and
the greater good and everything

311
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,360
else?
Yeah, well, let's let's talk

312
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,120
about Finn.
OK, so Finn starts this movie

313
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,200
and he is kind of a lone
survivalist.

314
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:12,240
Like he is primarily interested
in trying to get away from this

315
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:17,720
conflict and protect his friend
Ray, who he, you know, at the

316
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,880
end of the last film, he is
crippled.

317
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,200
He's slashed in the back with a
light Saber and he's in a coma

318
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,080
at the start of this film
because he was trying to protect

319
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,960
Rey, right?
And he he goes to the escape pod

320
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,360
not because he's a coward, but
because he's trying to protect

321
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,840
Rey from coming back to an
unwinnable situation, right?

322
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,320
Like coward would just be like,
I'm just trying to save my own

323
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,840
skin.
He's like, no, like I'm I'm

324
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,880
trying to save my friend.
So that's that's where he

325
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,600
starts.
And then throughout the movie,

326
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:52,920
he spends the entire film being
told about how capitalism is bad

327
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:59,520
and rich people are bad and that
good and evil is kind of morally

328
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,880
grey.
And you know, the, the, the, the

329
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,800
good guys, quote UN quote, also
buy weapons from the same people

330
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,280
that are selling to the bad guys
and don't get yourself

331
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,600
committed.
And it's not a big deal.

332
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,360
And then he finally commits
though, and it doesn't really

333
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,960
make sense why he commits it.
It doesn't make sense why he.

334
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,840
Decides to go on this rescue
mission in the 1st place because

335
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,360
he literally goes from hey, I'm
going to get in this escape pod

336
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:31,040
to save Ray to Nope, I'm 100%
in.

337
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,040
I have to save this ship and I
have to save the resistance.

338
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,160
And I'm going to give the
tracker that's going to help

339
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,560
save Ray to Poe who is still
stuck here.

340
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,960
And so all of a sudden, his
entire motivation to help Ray is

341
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,000
like now just kidding, I want to
save the resistance now.

342
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,840
And then he jumps on a hypership
where he could have taken that

343
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,280
tracker with him and tossed it
off the onto the beach.

344
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,800
And now Ray goes to a rich fancy
planet.

345
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,080
Like his whole motivation is
gone.

346
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:07,520
And now he loves the resistance
and now he hates rich war

347
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,000
profiteers, which obviously
every single rich person on that

348
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,960
planet was a war profiteer.
And, and also animal cruelty is

349
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,080
bad.
And so we need to free these,

350
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,000
these animals, but not
necessarily the slaves that it's

351
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,360
also bad that they have slaves.
We don't have to free them.

352
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,520
And now we're back on, we're,
we're back with the resistance

353
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,320
and we're, we're on crate and I
have a chance to save everybody.

354
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,240
And I finally have submitted
myself to the greater 'cause I,

355
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,720
I believe in the resistance.
I'm not this lone, lone smuggler

356
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,160
kind of guy anymore.
I I have, I believe in the

357
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,840
resistance now and I'm going to
die on his behalf to save

358
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,840
everyone.
And then Rose comes in out of

359
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,240
nowhere and blasts him out of
the way and says no, no, no, you

360
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,720
can't do that.
We got to save the things we

361
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,440
love.
And, and his whole character arc

362
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,200
makes zero sense.
There's no it it's just about

363
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,720
the themes that he's there to
represent that, that Rian

364
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,040
Johnson doesn't like capitalism.
So Finn has to understand that.

365
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,880
And Rian Johnson doesn't like
heroic sacrifices, which we see

366
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,560
in Poe's story as well.
So we're we're going to have to

367
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,720
keep him away from that.
We can't let him have a heroic

368
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,080
sacrifice.
And it's like, it's just example

369
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,320
after example.
And I I could go through every

370
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,200
single character with examples
like this but OK so I don't

371
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,400
think he want me to.
Well, it's not that it's that,

372
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,880
it's that you are pulling a Bob
book and talking for 5 minutes

373
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,360
uninterrupted here.
We got to, we got to like get

374
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:41,200
some dialogue going here.
So I will say of all of the main

375
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,800
characters, I think Finn's arc
is the most problematic and it's

376
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,360
because of that last small beat
where Rose saves him at the end.

377
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,560
I've always had a problem with
that character beat and Rose's

378
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,800
decision there.
Because as far as the people who

379
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,960
are in those cruisers know, like
Luke Skywalker's not hanging out

380
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,520
back there like no one's coming
to save them, This is their last

381
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,200
hope.
They have to take this cannon

382
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,160
out, and he's the only one left
to do that, even after Poe calls

383
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,560
them all off.
I do think that what he's

384
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,400
intending to do there is to
mirror Poe's recklessness at the

385
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,600
beginning of the movie, where
Leia tries to call him off and

386
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,680
he says no, no, no, we have to
take out the dreadnought.

387
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,760
And he ultimately causes more
deaths doing that than if he had

388
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,160
just retreated, because for him,
retreat's not an option.

389
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,960
Can I ask a question real quick?
Does he actually cause more

390
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,040
deaths or does he save the
entire resistance well?

391
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,800
We don't know.
I mean, again, we're talking

392
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,200
about military tactics here.
But like, can I finish my point

393
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,600
on Finn though?
Just like.

394
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,480
Just just think this through for
one second.

395
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,800
Just just one second.
Let's say he follows orders.

396
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,120
He goes back to the thing and
they jump through hyperspace and

397
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:56,120
you know they didn't know it,
but they get tracked and now the

398
00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,280
dreadnought shows up and blasts
them out of space.

399
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,640
I listen and I think that that
is also probably partially why

400
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,040
he doesn't ultimately get
treated harsher by Leia and

401
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,080
Holdo.
Like he gets demoted for

402
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,760
disobeying orders but like they
they both still have their

403
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,560
moment where they're like I like
this kid spunk.

404
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,080
He just doesn't listen to
anybody.

405
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,560
I hate that moment.
I don't.

406
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Brad.
OK, let.

407
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,360
Me make my point.
God bless it dude.

408
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,120
You're getting me off the topic.
So I think Finn's character is

409
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:29,040
ultimately the most problematic
because there is no reason for

410
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,560
Rose to save him there.
And in fact like it.

411
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,120
It only makes sense from the
perspective of he should be

412
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,560
sacrificing himself there.
I think that what Rian Johnson's

413
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,800
trying to do is provide a mirror
image to what happened at the

414
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,400
beginning of the movie with Poe
and show that there has been

415
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,280
character growth across
characters there.

416
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,880
Whether that completely works or
not.

417
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,680
I, you know, I don't think it
does completely work and I will,

418
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,760
I will grant you that.
I do think you're being really

419
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,840
reductionistic about a number of
things though, and you can, I

420
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,760
don't think you can A draw the
conclusion from events that

421
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,600
happen in a movie that the
writer or director of that movie

422
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,560
endorses everything the
characters do.

423
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,440
I don't think that the canto
bite sequence that I know we're

424
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,960
going to talk about where you
say that Rian Johnson hates

425
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,880
capitalism.
I don't think that necessarily

426
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,360
means that Rian Johnson the man
hates capitalism.

427
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,640
Just because you don't like what
the characters are saying

428
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,320
doesn't mean you can always read
that back on to the author.

429
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,240
Even if you do want to read that
back on to the author, I think

430
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,000
that's a really reductionistic
reading of that sequence in this

431
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,520
movie.
So why don't we spend 5 minutes

432
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,400
talking about the canto bite
sequence?

433
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,120
Because this is one of the
biggest hang ups for people who

434
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:42,240
dislike this movie.
And Brad, you said it yourself.

435
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,240
And for people who like the
movie.

436
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,160
But let's be honest.
You know, it's funny 'cause

437
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,640
like, I love the movie and that
is like, it's fine.

438
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,800
It's a good sequence.
I think it's well made, but like

439
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920
my first point was going to be
you said, you said the words in

440
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,720
your last, you know, segment
that you did that.

441
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,080
He spends the whole movie
getting told capitalism is bad.

442
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,480
In regards to Finn, do you know
how long the Canto byte sequence

443
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:14,320
is in terms of runtime?
It overall lasts probably like

444
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,720
40 minutes between different
segments.

445
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,000
It's probably like 15 minutes,
yeah, from, it's from 50. 4

446
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,160
minutes to 57 minutes and then
again from 1:04 to 1:10 it is 9

447
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,600
minutes long.
I and and again, like let's say

448
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,320
you disagree with everything
that happens and is said in that

449
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,160
that stretch of the film.
I guess I have a hard time

450
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,880
understanding how what is
ultimately like a side quest

451
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,600
that has not much bearing on the
film itself other than

452
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,200
establishing themes, how that
small of a sequence can become

453
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,040
such a huge point for so many
people.

454
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,920
Because this is a long movie.
And I, I really went back to it

455
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,400
expecting the canto bite
sequence to be a huge segment of

456
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,720
the movie.
And it's 9 minutes long.

457
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,080
And that includes like the chase
on the horses, you know, across

458
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,240
the, the grass and everything.
So like, I don't know if you'll

459
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,680
agree with me on this or not.
I do think that it has been

460
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,840
wildly outsized, the effect that
that part of the movie has on

461
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,200
people's readings of it, whether
for good or for bad.

462
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,520
I just don't think a 9 minute
sequence can have that much

463
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,640
impact on someone's appreciation
for or hatred for a movie.

464
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,840
But I don't know.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Brad,

465
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,560
I.
Mean, I, I think that regardless

466
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,720
of how long it is, there is so
much that happens in that scene

467
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,960
that really just doesn't make
any sense.

468
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,880
And and you have to have so many
leaps of logic to so much

469
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,920
suspension of disbelief to
believe that it's all happening,

470
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,160
that that it makes it stand out
as an example of how many leaps

471
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,440
of logic you have to make for
any of this movie to make sense.

472
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,200
OK, so let's let's take a beat
by beat.

473
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,080
They arrive on Canto Bite and
it's a visual punchline.

474
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,480
So you have Rose and Finn in the
ship, and they're talking about

475
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,120
Canto Bite, and they've been
told by this character, Maz

476
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,680
Kanata, to look for a man
wearing a red flower that he's

477
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,640
going to be rolling craps or
something in a casino there.

478
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,280
And you get Rose basically
echoing that line from A New

479
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,840
Hope about it being like the
most wretched hive of scum and

480
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,960
villainy, and it's the worst
people in the world.

481
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,440
And so as a Star Wars fan,
you're thinking, oh, OK, this is

482
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,520
going to be like a really seedy
kind of, what's the cantina

483
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,400
called in the first one?
I can't think of the name of it,

484
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,920
but most highs and Yeah And the.
City is most highs.

485
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,200
Right.
And it's the cantina there.

486
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,480
And then they cut to a bunch of
people in tuxedos and you're

487
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,000
basically in Monte Carlo or
Monaco or somewhere like that.

488
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,000
It's a visual gag.
I, I, and maybe I'm being naive,

489
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,120
Brad.
And like, I know that you and I

490
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,680
fall on opposite sides of the
political spectrum.

491
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,400
I know a number of people who
from that very first beat

492
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,080
immediately take the most
antagonistic reading of Canto

493
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,720
Bite and are like, Rian Johnson
hates rich people, right?

494
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,280
And I just, for me, it was more
just like a very, I think this

495
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,200
movie is very Spielbergian in
the way that he does his humor.

496
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,880
There's much less of the Marvel
style humor in this movie than

497
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,680
what JJ did in the last one.
And it's a lot of like visual

498
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,680
punch lines and sight gags.
And it reminded me a lot of that

499
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,560
opening sequence of Temple of
Doom where they're in the

500
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,960
cabaret and everyone's wearing
tuxedos there.

501
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,760
There's some great nods to
silent movies in the way that

502
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,800
he's doing the camera work in
that sequence.

503
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,160
But the that sequence inside the
casino where they're just

504
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,200
looking for Justin Thoreau's
character, I didn't really see

505
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,320
anything in there that was like,
we hate rich people, these

506
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,760
people suck.
Other than that, Rose thinks

507
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,760
these people suck.
And it's not till they get

508
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,680
outside and are overlooking the
racetrack and she gives her

509
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,320
little soliloquy that it becomes
clear, like, what her motivation

510
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,840
is.
But I think sometimes people

511
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,040
want to project what she says
out there onto that whole

512
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,720
sequence and then even farther
out onto the whole movie.

513
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,000
So if we're taking this beat by
beat Brad, like did that opening

514
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,080
part of the of the Canto bite
sequence do it for you?

515
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,960
Was it already antagonistic to
rich people to you?

516
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,280
Like what?
What's the What are you picking

517
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,520
up there?
I mean, I, I think you said it

518
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,160
already, like Rose frames it as
these people are evil.

519
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,800
It's it's a, she doesn't say
Wretched Hive, but she mimics

520
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,760
that line of like this is a evil
place with evil people.

521
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,480
That's kind of the essence of
what she says.

522
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,440
And then it shows rich people
like I, I don't, I don't think

523
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,640
I'm forcing something onto the,
the movie that's not there.

524
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:59,560
Like she says it and then he
shows it and there's nothing

525
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,520
within that scene to pull that
back.

526
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,160
Every single shot of every
single person in that movie is

527
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,560
them being gross and rich and
alcoholic and treating things

528
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520
like it's their property, you
know, even if it's not.

529
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,720
And and like, here's the thing I
like I'm not here to defend rich

530
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,520
people.
What I'm here to say is it felt

531
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:28,920
very reductionistic to say later
during the soliloquy, like

532
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,040
there's only one thing that
people can get this rich off of.

533
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,760
And I'm like, oh, I, I don't
know, oil, like the natural

534
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,240
resources, like there, there's
so many things that you can get

535
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,360
Uber wealthy off of.
Like Elon Musk got Uber wealthy

536
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,400
with cars, electric cars.
I don't know, are these people

537
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,080
selling an electric car?
And mining.

538
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,400
But yeah, I just listen.
So here's the thing though.

539
00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:00,280
It's like, again, you're reading
Earthbound politics on to this

540
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,640
in a way that like, yes, I think
this movie touches on the idea

541
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,280
of like war profiteering.
And, and I think that's actually

542
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,880
a really interesting angle
because in a saga called Star

543
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,200
Wars, we haven't really talked
about that side of it before.

544
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,640
We've talked about the politics
of it.

545
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,440
And the prequels focused very
heavily on the bureaucracy of

546
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,320
it.
And I think that this is another

547
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,520
really helpful way of examining
like, if there are wars going on

548
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,120
across galaxies, like how are
they getting who, who's putting

549
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,320
the orders in for all these
ships?

550
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,280
Where are they getting them
from?

551
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,920
But apart from all that, when
Rose is saying like, these are

552
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,240
the worst people in the world
and it cuts to rich people, it's

553
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,040
funny because it's not what
you're expecting.

554
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,920
And I don't think it's
necessarily super mean.

555
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,040
And you see them being slovenly
and, you know, they're just

556
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,760
being rich people who have no
cares in the world.

557
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,760
But you're like, we've seen what
evil looks like in the Star Wars

558
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,640
universe.
And so the fact that it doesn't

559
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,480
look like that makes us think,
at least for me, it made me

560
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,120
think like, oh, Rose, like you
must not have seen very much

561
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,120
because we've seen what evil
looks like in the in the

562
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,000
universe of Star Wars.
I don't take that as like Rian

563
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,720
Johnson is on Rose's side and
endorsing everything Rose says

564
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,920
because we haven't, we haven't
even gotten to the point where

565
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,760
she's confessing yet why she
feels that way.

566
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,640
So I think it's it's an equally
justifiable reading of that

567
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,520
sequence to think like Rose just
hates rich people.

568
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,840
These people are harmless, if
not drunken.

569
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,440
And I don't know, I mean, I
guess, I guess we're just like

570
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,720
digging our heels in on small
points in this movie now.

571
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,840
But I, I mean, I, I think that
is a could be a matter of

572
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,720
interpretation.
I, I think for me, like, let's

573
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,600
go back to the writing of the
film and how he gets people to

574
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,880
go from place to place.
I, I think there's so many

575
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:53,760
problems with this movie in
terms of continuity, in terms of

576
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,840
movement from scene to scene.
Like there, there's so many

577
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:04,840
simple places of logic that that
lead this movie into really

578
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,960
messy situations.
And Canto canto bite is one of

579
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:14,960
those examples.
Like if if this is the place of

580
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,840
of evil rich people who have all
this money, who have security,

581
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,480
who are annoyed about parking
illegally on a beach and has a

582
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,080
security force that will throw
you in jail because of a parking

583
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,080
ticket.
Do you really think that they

584
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,920
would be allowed into that
casino?

585
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,760
But like they like they just
walk in with their dirty jackets

586
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,120
and their dirty, smelly
rebellion things.

587
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,840
And like, if we're going to
double down on this place being

588
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,560
evil, like they just they just
walk in after landing.

589
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,520
And there's so many little
things like this throughout the

590
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,239
movie that it within the movie
The first time, the second time,

591
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,960
the third time I've watched this
where I'm like, really, how, how

592
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,160
did they do that?
How did they get into a ship and

593
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,920
escape?
When you know, the, the 1st

594
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,720
order can detect when people are
going and they just jump into

595
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:11,120
hyperspace and leave the, the
rebellion.

596
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,160
Sorry, it's not the rebellion,
it's the resistance.

597
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,320
They leave the resistance just
as out of nowhere.

598
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,440
There's just so many little
things like this that make me

599
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,320
go.
Can I have any effort on the

600
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,320
script other than the themes
that he's trying to push?

601
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,400
I mean, I do think that they
they address things like this in

602
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:31,680
the movie though.
And you're right, that

603
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,760
particular thing they don't
address from the first orders

604
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,120
perspective.
But like when when they sneak

605
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,960
off, the one time you have the
one girl that hold.

606
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,600
I was like, what was that?
That just went by and she's

607
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:42,960
like, oh, nothing, It was just
debris.

608
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,480
And then from the first orders
perspective, there is a time

609
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,800
where people start peeling off
from the main ship and they're

610
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,440
like, it's a distraction, like
focus on the main ship.

611
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,360
So it's possible they did see
them go.

612
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:55,760
They just, it's just not in the
movie.

613
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,280
I guess you're right in that it
does require some suspension of

614
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,200
disbelief.
But I was thinking the whole

615
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,440
time you were talking about like
wearing dirty clothes into the

616
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,320
casino.
I'm thinking about that scene in

617
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,800
Top Gun Maverick after his brand
new plane explodes in mid air.

618
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,800
And it's such a weird jarring
thing that a lot of people have

619
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,160
speculated that the entire movie
is that Tom Cruise's character

620
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,160
is dead.
And this is like his dying

621
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,600
hallucination, which I think is
a stupid interpretation.

622
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,920
But like the following scene, he
shows up like a full day later

623
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,240
at this diner that looks like
it's out of the 1950s and he's

624
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,960
covered in soot and dust and and
looks like a spaceman.

625
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,360
And it's funny because he's so
out of place there, but you

626
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,440
don't take a ton of time to just
say, like, how did he find this

627
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,120
place?
How long has he been wondering?

628
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,720
Why is he, why does he like I, I
guess like I don't really care

629
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,160
how they got in.
Like why, why that doesn't?

630
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,720
Require that doesn't require any
suspension.

631
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,560
Disbelief.
He crashed outside this town and

632
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,920
he walked in and went into the
first bar he found.

633
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,960
It does require suspension
disbelief in that you see him

634
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,000
going Mach 10 and then the thing
explodes in mid air in the next

635
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,600
scene.
He's totally fine, he's just a

636
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,480
little dusty.
I'm like, I'm just saying when

637
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,960
the movie is working for you and
it clearly wasn't for you, but

638
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,800
when a movie is working, there
are things that not only are you

639
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,120
willing to set aside, but that
you're just not really thinking

640
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,080
about.
And for me, like, how did they

641
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,760
get into this casino?
Wearing dirty clothes was just

642
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,680
not really one of them, you know
what I mean?

643
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,040
And and I think that if we can
finish the canto bite thing and

644
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,520
then drink some whiskey, for
God's sake.

645
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,440
Like, they go out on the balcony
and Rose gives her long spiel

646
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,160
about there's only one thing
people can get this wealthy off

647
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,320
of.
And in the context of this movie

648
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,320
on this planet, there's probably
rich people on other planets

649
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,200
with other casinos.
But this particular one is full

650
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,160
of people who are war
profiteers.

651
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,560
And I think one of the things
that is interesting to me is

652
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,480
that this movie came out again,
we've talked about this the last

653
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,960
couple weeks in a really, really
charged political climate.

654
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,440
Like, this movie came out in
2017.

655
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,520
This was pre pandemic when all
of our anger was directed at

656
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,520
only one type of person, and it
was the person on the opposite

657
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,880
side of the political aisle from
you.

658
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,400
I think that there has just been
a long, long history of movies

659
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,040
on both the left and the right
of just like rich people can

660
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,040
really suck and they're too
Snooty and we need to hit him in

661
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,920
the face with a pie.
And like, that's the entire

662
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,200
premise of most comedies by
Charlie Chaplin and Buster

663
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,040
Keaton and, you know, Laurel and
Hardy and whoever.

664
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,120
All through the history of
movies, it's just been funny to

665
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,080
bring rich people down a peg.
And I don't think it was ever

666
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,280
interpreted as some grand
political statement.

667
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,160
And you get in this movie, and
he gives a justification for why

668
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,080
the rich people are there and
why Rose doesn't like them and

669
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,320
her desire to, like, stick it to
him a little bit.

670
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,680
And then they steal some horses
and they, you know, smash up the

671
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,120
casino a little bit and they
leave.

672
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,840
Ultimately, those rich people
live on.

673
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,360
They have not dismantled the
system of rich people Ness and

674
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,600
it's just a fun little sequence
of them, like getting a small

675
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,640
win amidst a whole series of
failures.

676
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,200
And I don't I don't think I ever
saw it as more than that.

677
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,440
And I'm, I guess I'm just
surprised at how much that

678
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,520
sequence has become not just a
hang up for people, but the lens

679
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,160
through which they view this
entire movie and its themes.

680
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,000
It it's because of the last
lines.

681
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,920
So once again, this is an
example of the terrible writing

682
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,640
of the movie.
So Finn and Rose, why do they go

683
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,880
to Canto Bite to find the code
breaker and to save literally

684
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,440
save the thing they care about
most, maybe not Finn, but the

685
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,480
thing that Rose cares about
most, the resistance.

686
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,840
That's why they're there.
And then they ride these horses

687
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,520
off and she's, you know, bitter
and angry about rich people.

688
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,200
And they ride these horses off
and they smash up the casino.

689
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,440
And they finally get to the end
of their little joyride.

690
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:11,040
And he and Finn goes, you know,
it was all worth it, all worth

691
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,760
it to, to wreck up that place
to, to smash through it all.

692
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,000
And this is at a moment where
they don't think they're going

693
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,440
to escape, correct?
They they literally are at the

694
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,080
end of the line.
And he goes, you know, it was

695
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,720
all worth it to smash up that
place a little bit.

696
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,960
And then she goes, hold on a
second.

697
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,920
She frees the horse and says,
now it was all worth it.

698
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,880
It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
No, it was not all worth it.

699
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,760
These are insanely wealthy
people that this will barely be

700
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,960
a blip on the radar.
All of the creatures that you

701
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,400
just released out into the wild,
guess what?

702
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,280
They're going to capture them
back or they're bred in

703
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,480
captivity and they're going to
die out in the wild.

704
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,000
You nailed it, guys.
Great job.

705
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,760
See, again, I just think that.
You're and then out of and then

706
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,160
out of nowhere the code breaker
just shows up.

707
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:06,000
But why does he show up?
Why doesn't he just run off?

708
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,600
He's a scoundrel.
He's the worst type of scum and

709
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,720
villainy in the world.
Why does he show up randomly?

710
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:16,160
How does he know where they are?
And he just picks them up and

711
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,920
and decides like, well, maybe
I'll listen to your thing on on

712
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,200
doing this.
I There's just so many leaps in

713
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,600
logic and so many places where
theme and and his desire to say

714
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,800
things comes above any of the
characters and what they

715
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,040
actually desire.
Yeah, I just think this is one

716
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,600
of those areas where, like, it's
not that you're reading into it

717
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,240
too much, but I think you're
reading an I'll intent on to it

718
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,720
that I just don't see there.
Like they say it's all worth it

719
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,480
because they think they're going
to die and they're trying to

720
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,520
find one, one small victory
before they get swallowed up by

721
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,440
this machine that is the 1st
order.

722
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,240
And it's, it's very similar to
what happens at the end of Rogue

723
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:55,440
One.
Like they don't know if their

724
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,920
mission is ultimately
successful.

725
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,120
They think it is, but like they
hold hands and watch the

726
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,440
freaking beach blow up because
they have to believe that they

727
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,200
did something worthwhile.
And for Rose and Finn, who's now

728
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,720
think that the entire resistance
is doomed in that they're going

729
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:12,160
to die, they have to find one
thing to cling to in their last

730
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,480
moments.
And he's like, you know what?

731
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,560
Like F it.
At least we got to stick it to

732
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,600
the man a little bit.
And she says, like, she lets the

733
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,440
horse go.
And the horse is a symbol for

734
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,160
like the fact that they have
both come up under these regimes

735
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,320
where like everyone is
downtrodden and like, they get

736
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,280
to give freedom to something, if
only for a brief moment that

737
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,360
they themselves have never been
able to experience.

738
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,200
I don't understand how that is a
like, out of line with the

739
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,600
themes of Star Wars in general.
Like Star Wars is all about that

740
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,400
dude.
Like I, I guess I, I, I just

741
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:49,920
don't see what is malicious in a
theme like that in this movie.

742
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,960
Here's the thing, Bob.
I'm not even saying that it's

743
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,840
malicious.
I'm saying that it's insanely

744
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:01,400
poorly written and it's placing
themes above characters and who

745
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,560
they are and what they've been
caring about.

746
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,600
Like, I'm sorry, but the way,
and maybe it's the acting, maybe

747
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,360
it's the way that Johnson
directed his actors.

748
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,760
I I don't know.
All I'm saying is the way that

749
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,240
they deliver those lines at the
end are not defeated people who

750
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,840
are about to be crushed under
the boot of the 1st Order and

751
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,600
lose every single thing that
they ever hoped to gain in the

752
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,400
world, that they're simply
joyriders who are like, well,

753
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,960
it's, it's like a Breakfast Club
ending.

754
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:39,920
Like there's no sense of them,
like feeling the weight of what

755
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,600
has just happened, about how
they've utterly failed in their

756
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,360
mission.
Like nothing, nothing matters,

757
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,240
and then nothing really does
matter because they get to keep

758
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:52,920
going on the mission consequence
free.

759
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,800
And then, oh wait, they get
caught by ABB 8 Droid who

760
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,760
suddenly is able to see through
it and that little BB Droid

761
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,920
stops them and they're captured
and there's a whole legion of

762
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,000
troops around them.
And then Holdo does her

763
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:13,880
hyperdrive attack and wow, every
single stormtrooper around them

764
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,400
is dead except for Phasma who
was right next to them and now

765
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,040
isn't, and now she's leading a
legion of troops at them.

766
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,440
And man, right when Rose is
about to help Finn in his battle

767
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,440
against Phasma, who suddenly has
a little sword thing that she's

768
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,400
fighting him with, there's a
gunner that just appears out of

769
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,880
nowhere and shoots at her and
keeps her from helping Finn.

770
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,400
And then as soon as Finn has his
moment and defeats Phasma, guess

771
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,920
what?
That cannon is just gone now

772
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,800
because Finn had his moment and
he had his time in the

773
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,560
spotlight.
And so now the thing that that

774
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,480
Johnson used to keep Rose from
helping him just disappears.

775
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,920
And they jump on BB8's stolen
ATST and they just run off and

776
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,880
all of a sudden they're on a
ship and they're in crate.

777
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,040
There's just so many things like
this throughout the movie that

778
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:07,720
it's a it's a horrifically bad
script, yeah.

779
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,560
I just disagree, man.
I like and and again, we need to

780
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,040
throw it a whiskey.
I will say this, man, I'm trying

781
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,680
my best to let you just speak
your piece.

782
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,960
I I think you've definitely
you've definitely had a lot more

783
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,960
to say than I have so far, which
is fine, but also like I love

784
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,680
this movie.
I think that this is I, I mean,

785
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,000
I've told you already, this is
my favorite Star Wars movie.

786
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,080
I this, this time around
confirmed it for me.

787
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,240
I think it's a masterfully
written script.

788
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,840
I think each character's arc
makes perfect sense for what the

789
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,560
characters need to become.
And I think Rian Johnson was

790
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,480
handed kind of a big question
mark at the end of The Force

791
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,560
Awakens, a movie where quite
literally nothing happens.

792
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,960
We are in almost the exact same
spot at the end of that film

793
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,520
that we were in the beginning of
the film.

794
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,760
And he's handed, no, I don't
know, 18 characters from that

795
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,320
first movie that he has to find
Arcs 4.

796
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,000
And he is tasked with either
getting those people to the

797
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,640
finish line or trimming the fat.
And I think that like, we'll

798
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:05,840
talk about this in the
second-half.

799
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,600
I think his decision to dispatch
with Snoke is great because we

800
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,440
don't need Snoke.
And he, you know, he does this

801
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,160
with a couple other characters
as well.

802
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,080
I don't think Rose completely
works and I'll I'll grant you

803
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,800
that, But I think for the most
part, what he's doing is finding

804
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,680
ways for these characters to
have meaningful growth within

805
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,080
their own small story while also
serving the general theme of

806
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,880
this movie, which is that
failure is a great teacher and

807
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,320
that self sacrifice can
sometimes be more harmful than

808
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,120
doing what's best for the
greater good.

809
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,000
And I think that each of those
small stories feeds back into

810
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,320
this, whether it's Kylo Ren,
whether it's Poe Dameron, I

811
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,640
just, I think it's a great
script and we are at complete

812
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,160
odds here.
And so hopefully, Brad, when we

813
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,560
go to drink whiskey here at the
48 minute mark, we will find

814
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,000
some common ground in either
hating or loving this thing.

815
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,400
So Jim Beam, it is all down to
you.

816
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,440
Brad, what do you say we drink
some single barrel?

817
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:17,680
Let's get to it, Bob.
All right, Jim Beam, Single

818
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,800
Barrel.
Brad, I can hear the frustration

819
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,560
in your voice.
Are you, are you actively mad at

820
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,200
me or are you just frustrated
with the film and the fact that

821
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:33,200
I like it?
I think that we should talk

822
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:33,840
about whiskey.
Oh.

823
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,120
OK.
All right.

824
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,920
OK.
Jim Beam Single Barrel, it's the

825
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,400
third one we've tried from Jim
Beam in this line up.

826
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,440
Of five Jim Beam products that
we are trying, it is by far the

827
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,000
most expensive one.
It usually clocks in somewhere

828
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,720
between 30 and $40.
Now this is a, like I said,

829
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:55,680
single barrel whiskey at 108
proof, so not bottled at barrel

830
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,840
proof, but it is also not age
stated.

831
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,680
It's rumored to be somewhere
between five and six years old.

832
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,320
And the mash bill on this
consists of I just had it pulled

833
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:11,640
up 75% corn, 13% rye, 12% malted
barley.

834
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,560
Brad, where, where are you
falling so far on this Jim Beam

835
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,680
lineup of ours?
I think that the price point has

836
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:28,080
saved it.
I, I'll say this, I am a fan of

837
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,680
any whiskey brand that can keep
putting out average to decent

838
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:39,680
whiskey for very cheap prices.
Like in a world where you know,

839
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:45,320
the, the whiskey industry has
just bubbled beyond belief and

840
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,000
prices are insane.
I, I think it's cool that

841
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,920
there's a company who's like,
hey, we know our lane.

842
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,720
Like sure, prices have gone up a
little bit for our stuff, but

843
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,960
not exorbitantly.
And we know what we're doing.

844
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,240
We know what we're about and
we're going to give you a solid

845
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,680
value at the price point we're
offering.

846
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,280
So I, I, I think I'm a fan.
Totally agree.

847
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,720
I mean, I haven't really been a
fan of the whiskeys themselves.

848
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,920
I've been a fan of the price
point to your point.

849
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,920
And you know, when it comes to
single barrels, you know, I'll

850
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:13,560
give two small caveats here,
Brad.

851
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,920
We don't typically love doing
single barrels on the show

852
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,400
because we only have enough time
to review a label once usually

853
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,560
and if it's a single barrel we
are rolling the dice.

854
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,400
It could be wildly different
from the general flavor

855
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,840
wheelhouse of that label, but we
just got an off barrel.

856
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,800
However, balancing that out is
the fact that Jim Beam is

857
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,520
freaking huge conglomerate and
they're pumping out thousands

858
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,600
and thousands and thousands of
barrels a year.

859
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,520
On their website they say less
than 1% are chosen to become Jim

860
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,400
Beam single barrels.
But even with that small of a,

861
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,240
you know, a segment like we're
talking about enough barrels

862
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,400
that I think we're going to get
a good sense of what a Jim Beam

863
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,040
single barrel tastes like here.
So you've tried it already, man,

864
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,400
I have not.
And boy, oh boy, do I need a

865
00:49:58,400 --> 00:49:59,680
drink at this point in the
episode.

866
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,880
So why, why don't you take it
away man, with your nosing

867
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,360
notes?
On the nose here it came across

868
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,800
a decently oaky but but not too
much to where it it ruins the

869
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,680
nose.
There's some orange peels, some

870
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,920
honeycomb, a bit of like a mixed
spice vibe, more on like the

871
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,520
baking spices side of things.
I think this is a pretty solid

872
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,240
nose.
I'm curious where it'll go and

873
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,360
I'm going to give it a 7 1/2.
I like this a lot.

874
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,440
There's a weird kind of most
oniony note.

875
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,120
I don't know how to explain this
man.

876
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,720
It's like real sweet and it has
the oak to it.

877
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,040
But then there's something
that's real savory and almost,

878
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,040
again, oniony to me.
It's a note I've never quite

879
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,400
gotten on a whiskey before, but
it smells a little bit funky.

880
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,480
Little Jim Sake, and I don't
quite know how to feel about

881
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,760
that, Brad.
I'm still going to give it a 6

882
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,720
1/2 on the nose though.
I think the palate is where this

883
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,200
thing really comes to life.
There, there.

884
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,600
The funkiness to it for me
turned into like a tart cherry.

885
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,360
The baking spices settled into a
really nice cinnamon flavor on

886
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,600
the palate.
There's vanilla there, there's

887
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,800
caramel.
Honestly, it's a really nice

888
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:24,920
mixture of some some kind of
stone fruit spicy mixed with

889
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,120
some traditional bourbon notes.
I'll give it an 8 out of 10

890
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,080
here.
I really like this.

891
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,440
This is very different than what
we've been drinking the last

892
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,080
couple weeks though.
And excuse me, my mouth is

893
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,840
watering 'cause this is really
prickly on the palate.

894
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,480
Like it's got a lot of spice to
it.

895
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,440
Cinnamon for sure, but it's like
unsweetened cinnamon.

896
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,960
It's like a like if you did the
cinnamon challenge, that's kind

897
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,560
of like what it reminds me of a
little bit.

898
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:53,000
I'm with you in that there's a
almost bitter kind of stone

899
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,520
fruit, like when you get close
to the pit of a stone fruit kind

900
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,160
of thing going on here and it's
super oaky.

901
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,520
But then I took a second sip and
I think that some of the candy

902
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,440
sweetness definitely came out a
little bit.

903
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,480
So I like it a lot.
It's a little bit thin on the

904
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,840
mouthfeel and we'll get to this
in the finished part.

905
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,840
But the finish is almost non
existent.

906
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,120
Like there's a ton of flavor and
then you swallow and it's gone.

907
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,640
But when it comes to the taste,
I'm gonna give it an 8 out of

908
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,840
10.
And then getting into my

909
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,520
finished score, like I said,
it's it's really watery.

910
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,040
There's not a lot that lingers.
It's OK, but it's just super

911
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,200
short.
I'll just give it a 6 1/2 here

912
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,160
as well, Brad.
Yeah, I, I'm in a similar place

913
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,840
on the finish.
It's a 7 out of 10 for me.

914
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,520
The cinnamon sticks around.
It gets a little bit peppery and

915
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:46,360
oaky as as you'd expect.
But yeah, it, it falls off on

916
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,880
the finish for sure.
I'm at a 7 out of 10.

917
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,320
I think balance wise, I'm also
going to stick at a 7 out of 10.

918
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,160
While I think that there are
good flavors here, there's not

919
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,640
quite enough complexity to
really push this score up.

920
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,000
And I, I think that the lack of
a solid finish really hurts it.

921
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,480
But you know, overall 7 out of
10, still a decent balance.

922
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,280
I'm really impressed with this
flavor and I think that I'm

923
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,800
going to let it influence me
more than it should 'cause I, I

924
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,040
don't think this is an 8 out of
10 balance.

925
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,640
Like for God's sake, I picked up
onion on the nose here, but I

926
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,600
don't know, man, I just like it.
I think that it's a, it's like

927
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,720
everything I would expect Jim
Beam to be.

928
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,360
If you said, hey, here's, here's
straight from the barrel Jim

929
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,800
Beam.
Like I don't think we're

930
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,840
choosing the highest quality
whiskey that Jim Beam makes.

931
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,920
They're going to be releasing
that as bookers and bakers and

932
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,520
you know what I mean?
Like so, so to still have the

933
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,440
Jim Beam label on it, this is
pretty darn good.

934
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,760
I'm going to give it an 8 out of
10 on the balance.

935
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,640
And this is where things get a
little bit dicey, Brad, 'cause

936
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,720
I'm at a 29 out of 40 so far on
just the tasting part of it.

937
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:58,760
But now we get into value and I
believe I paid like $37 for

938
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,640
this.
I don't know what it's currently

939
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:05,280
going for in Ohio. $39. 39,
yeah, see, that's 40.

940
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,080
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't even consider that

941
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,280
39.
It's 40.

942
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,520
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
Like you're paying taxes, 4142

943
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,720
bucks.
I, I, I don't think this is a

944
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:19,320
bad value.
I think it needs to be at or

945
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,400
under $35.
Agreed.

946
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,240
Like I, I think if you're
getting this at a $31.00, you

947
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:30,120
know, $30.99 type of price tag,
this is probably like an 8 out

948
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,840
of 10 value, 9 out of 10 value.
Like it, it's got a lot going

949
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:39,880
for it hitting that $40 range.
It's not a bad score, but I'll

950
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,240
give it a 6 1/2.
I think I'm going to be in a

951
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:46,560
similar spot, you know, when it
comes to the $3435 range.

952
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,920
I don't even know if this is
true anymore, but I always

953
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,240
associate that price with Elijah
Craig.

954
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,240
Like the regular standard 90
proof or I guess 94 proof Elijah

955
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,720
Craig.
I think this is comparable to

956
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:01,200
that in terms of how much I like
it, and I really like Elijah

957
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,160
Craig.
But would I pay $6 more for this

958
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,000
than I would for a bottle of
Elijah Craig, even if it is 108

959
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,360
proof and single barrel?
Probably not.

960
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,760
I think it's a little bit too
high.

961
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,240
I still think it's a good value
though, 'cause I can't think of

962
00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:21,600
a lot of single barrels that are
A, under $40 and B, that tastes

963
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,680
this good under $40.00.
So I'm going to go ahead and

964
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:30,560
give it a 7.5 on value, and that
is bringing my final score here

965
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,800
to a 36.5 out of 50.
Brad, where are you falling on

966
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,440
this one?
We are nearly in lockstep on

967
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,600
this, Bob.
I'm at a 36 out of 50.

968
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,920
The great equalizer man.
Jim Beam, Single Barrel.

969
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:45,720
Yeah, it sure is.
We're.

970
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:54,760
Coming to a 36.25 out of 50 or a
what is that, 72.5 out of 100?

971
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,880
So it's definitely over the 35
mark where we start

972
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,480
recommending.
And I think I will give this a

973
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,960
pretty solid, hearty thumbs up,
man.

974
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:04,480
I think it's worth buying a
bottle.

975
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,760
I actually think it'd also be
worth getting a pour at the bar

976
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,600
'cause it'll probably run you
like 8 or $9 for a pour.

977
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:17,080
And I think that the spiciness
of this merits an 8 to $9 pour.

978
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,400
Yeah, I, I, I would agree with
you.

979
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,120
I think this is a really solid
whiskey that you should pick up.

980
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:28,040
I, I think the Beam is doing a
mostly good job at matching the

981
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,520
price point to what's in the
bottle.

982
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,440
So yeah, I'm I'm a fan here.
We did it, man.

983
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:35,760
Why don't we just call it a day
right now?

984
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,320
Let's not give the movie any
scores.

985
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,000
Bob, we, we haven't talked about
Rey, we haven't talked about

986
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,040
Kylo, we haven't talked about
Luke.

987
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,880
We at like, we've literally
talked about Finn and Rose.

988
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,440
I'll tell you what.
Here's what we should do.

989
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,800
This is the the capitalist in me
that apparently Ryan Johnson

990
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,920
would hate.
I think we should set some sort

991
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,360
of goal for our Patreon.
And if we hit that?

992
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,720
Goal.
We will do the full probably 3

993
00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:07,720
hour version of this episode
like you and I will talk.

994
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:10,440
I would too because honestly,
dude, I'm, I'm be honest with

995
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,720
you, like we, we are going back
and forth, but it's been a

996
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:19,400
respectful and BI would say well
articulated on both of our

997
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:20,880
fronts.
And I feel like I've been

998
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,520
stammering a lot, but I even
beyond that, I think that we've

999
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,240
articulated our points well.
I'm enjoying the hell out of

1000
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:28,840
this.
We're just on different sides of

1001
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,840
this.
But I could keep going on why I

1002
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,560
love this movie for another hour
and a half.

1003
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,480
And I think you could definitely
get through more of that 22 page

1004
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,560
document of yours.
Yeah, bye, bye.

1005
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,400
I think I could pretty easily do
that.

1006
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,680
All that to say, we're not going
to do that today.

1007
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,400
So we got to speed things along
a little bit, condense in a way

1008
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,960
that that Ryan Johnson could not
the rest of this episode.

1009
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,240
So Brad, let's get back into
talking about The Last Jedi.

1010
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,680
What do you say?
Let's get to it.

1011
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,160
All right, everybody.
That was Jim Beam Single Barrel,

1012
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:07,440
the final time Bob and I will
ever agree on anything.

1013
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,160
Man, well I guess thanks for the
send off Jim Beam.

1014
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:15,960
You know what we can agree on
though Brad?

1015
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:21,320
One more thing we can agree on
is that I am killing it at our

1016
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,880
next game, which we call 2 facts
and a falsehood.

1017
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:30,600
Brad is going to try to stump
your ball to all right.

1018
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,560
And what is wrong?
Two facts and a falsehood.

1019
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,840
Two facts and a falsehood is the
part of the show where Bob

1020
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:43,080
absolutely owns Brad because Bob
is 17 and 12 on the season I

1021
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:44,920
have secured.
It's clearly not your take on

1022
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,240
last.
Jedi, I have secured not just a

1023
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,800
500 season but a winning season
against Brad and if that's the

1024
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,240
only victory I get against Brad
today, I will still be a happy

1025
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,560
man.
What is 2 facts and a falsehood

1026
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,520
you ask?
Let's get this over with, Bob.

1027
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,880
They know what it is.
We need, we need to get back

1028
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,360
into the the the analysis.
Come on.

1029
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:06,760
All right, fine.
They do know what it is.

1030
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:07,840
They can.
They can infer.

1031
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,840
Hit me with your two facts and a
falsehood.

1032
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:15,200
Fact #1 Mark Hamill's three
children, Chelsea, Nathan, and

1033
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,600
Griffin, all make uncredited
appearances as resistant

1034
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,520
fighters during the Battle of
Great.

1035
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,680
Fact #2 Gareth Edwards, director
of Rogue One, a Star Wars Story,

1036
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,200
appears in a small role as an
entrenched resistant soldier

1037
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,760
during the final battle.
He is to the left.

1038
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,320
He is not the character who says
this, but he's to the left of

1039
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:38,000
the character who tastes the
ground saying it's salt and then

1040
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,960
spits.
Fact #3 Longtime Star Wars

1041
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,440
producer Dave Filoni made an
uncredited appearance in the

1042
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,760
film as one of the pilots on the
Rebel command ship during their

1043
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,440
flight from the 1st Order.
I think you got me today, man.

1044
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,200
I don't know or care about any
of these.

1045
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,880
Who made cameo appearances And
what?

1046
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,560
Hey, was that James Corden as
the fat pilot at the beginning?

1047
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,880
Was it James Corden?
You know, like he like Porkins

1048
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,920
in the original trilogy.
I it looked like James Corden.

1049
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,200
And it may just be because I
don't like James Corden and

1050
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,040
like, you know, seeing him
immediately, like this movie,

1051
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,800
seeing him immediately get
shredded in this movie was like,

1052
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,440
ah, hurray, cosmic come up.
I don't.

1053
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,200
I don't think it was James
Corden, but I could be wrong.

1054
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,040
Yeah, I don't know.
They looked like him, but again,

1055
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,480
who knows?
OK.

1056
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,440
Are Mark Hamill's kids in this?
I don't know.

1057
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,160
Gareth Edwards, I feel like I
heard that he made a cameo in

1058
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,480
this movie, but it could be as
somebody completely different.

1059
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:44,080
And then the third one is Dave
Filoni.

1060
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:48,360
You said I don't know who that
is or what he does or anything

1061
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:52,040
so.
He produced the clone wars

1062
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,120
animated show.
He like way back in 2002 he

1063
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:00,520
produced Star Wars Rebels which
was the first Disney animated

1064
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:06,600
show and I think he had
something to do maybe not with

1065
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,560
Mandalorian but maybe Obi Wan.
He he's been around Star Wars

1066
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:14,880
for a long time like pre Disney.
OK, so here's where I am at on

1067
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,600
this.
I think that number one's

1068
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,400
probably true or likely true
just as like throwing a bone to

1069
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,160
Mark Hamill.
I don't know why they would

1070
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,280
bring in Gareth Edwards just to
be in this movie unless he and

1071
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,720
Ryan Johnson had some really
cool relationship.

1072
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,320
But it makes more sense that
they would put Gareth Edwards in

1073
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,440
a cameo than that they would put
some random producer in a cameo.

1074
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,760
Cause like, people don't know
what producers look like.

1075
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,920
They might know what, you know,
like, if you're a Christopher

1076
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:42,840
Nolan fan, you know what
Christopher Nolan looks like.

1077
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,600
So maybe they were thinking
they'd get a couple people in

1078
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,400
the audience to be like, oh,
it's Gareth Edwards.

1079
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:55,680
I'm going to say #3 is false.
But I think it's possible that

1080
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,200
you made all three of these
facts up.

1081
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,600
I would do that to screw you on
this movie.

1082
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,520
However, my honor is greater
than my desire to see you fail,

1083
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,920
and you have picked out the
correct false all.

1084
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,600
Right.
Is Dave Filoni even a real

1085
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,960
person?
Yeah, no, 100% everything I told

1086
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,240
you about him is true.
I might have worded it wrong

1087
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,480
because I wrote it.
He was the producer of those

1088
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,960
shows and director.
So that that probably is what

1089
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,800
lost me the battle there.
But yeah, he, he has produced

1090
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,920
and directed and like within the
Star Wars fandom, he's like kind

1091
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:38,120
of revered as somebody who is a
true Star Wars nerd that also

1092
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,160
got a chance to direct and, and
like expand the Star Wars

1093
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:47,680
universe and did it well, unlike
other unnamed, you know,

1094
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:53,120
candidates.
Well, cool, I'm at 18 and 12

1095
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,360
now.
I might just take the next two

1096
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,560
weeks off and just say screw it,
pick, pick a number out of a hat

1097
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:04,080
from 1:00 to 3:00.
OK, so we both have lots that we

1098
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,280
want to say that we don't have
room to say in this episode.

1099
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:11,040
We have not talked about any of
the major characters.

1100
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,280
I guess I want to talk about
Rian Johnson real quick, though,

1101
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,480
before we do anything else.
Do you have any exposure to him

1102
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,040
outside of this movie?
Have you seen any of his prior

1103
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,120
films to this, or any of his
subsequent films to this?

1104
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:29,840
I have seen the final few
episodes of Breaking Bad he

1105
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:35,000
directed.
Yep, I have seen Knives out part

1106
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,200
one.
Not that it's a part one, but

1107
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,920
the first one and that's it.
OK, so.

1108
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:48,240
I have also seen the way that he
interacted with Star Wars fans

1109
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:54,360
and I think that one of the
reasons I do think he has I'll

1110
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,360
intent towards the Star Wars
universe is because of how

1111
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:04,240
childish and condescending.
And like to be frank, he's a

1112
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:09,800
giant a hole to any Star Wars
fan who's kind of like, hey, I

1113
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:10,920
don't know if I loved your
movie.

1114
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:14,800
I think it did a lot of not
great things to the universe of

1115
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,360
Star Wars.
And he literally will tweet

1116
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:21,640
things at them like the
following.

1117
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:26,360
Yes I absolutely see your well
laid out and rational argument

1118
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:32,000
that my Dick and I like if you
think I'm making this up.

1119
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:37,520
He literally replied 434 times
in a row to a guy who was making

1120
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,200
salient points on Twitter.
I know it's crazy, but the guy

1121
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:45,080
was just saying things like, hey
man, like the writing wasn't as

1122
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:46,760
good as you're making it out to
be.

1123
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:50,080
Like there's some flaws with it
and pointing it out isn't like

1124
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:55,160
evil.
And he just consistently uses

1125
01:04:55,160 --> 01:05:02,040
the most childish and rude and
he's just an A hole Star Wars

1126
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,480
fans.
And it's hard not to, to look at

1127
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,520
so many of the things in this
movie and go, yeah, Rian

1128
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,720
Johnson, not the guy I want in
charge of the Star Wars

1129
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,960
universe, even for one film.
I get it.

1130
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:17,640
I get it, man.
I so here's the thing.

1131
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,680
I don't know anything about Rian
Johnson as a as a person.

1132
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,440
I've never heard him being
accused of an A hole by like

1133
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,160
people on set with him.
He seems to be well liked by a

1134
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:29,880
lot of people.
I also think that like, dude,

1135
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,400
you know what the Star Wars fan
base can do to people and they

1136
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,720
they were doing it to Daisy
Ridley in the first movie until

1137
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,640
they got a new target in Ryan
Johnson in this movie.

1138
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,400
And then they moved on to JJ in
the third movie as somebody to

1139
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,480
lob hate bombs at.
They did it to Jake Lloyd in the

1140
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,840
prequels that drove the kid to
become schizophrenic.

1141
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,400
I mean, like, it's it it's a
very toxic fan base full of

1142
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:51,960
people who have high
expectations.

1143
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,680
Now, does that excuse what he
said?

1144
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,080
Absolutely not.
But I also know that like you

1145
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,160
and I go at each other and then
call each other a Dick.

1146
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,680
Imagine a million people coming
at you like that.

1147
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,840
I I just, you know, I'm not
trying to defend him.

1148
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,960
And I think that you're probably
right that like he got accused

1149
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,800
of being the guy that destroyed
Star Wars.

1150
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,360
And after a million people say
that about you, maybe you just

1151
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,760
embraced the role of villain.
I think where you and I differ

1152
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:22,040
sometimes is that I don't read
that back on to the movie.

1153
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,200
I think he made this with really
good intentions and then it did

1154
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,120
not land the way he wanted it to
land.

1155
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,600
And he just decided to lean into
people hating him after a while.

1156
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,560
I think it is childish.
And I think that, like, you

1157
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,960
know, he's, he has now cemented
his legacy in Star Wars.

1158
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,160
I, I don't know that there's
going to be some huge

1159
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,600
revisionist reading of this
movie 20 years from now.

1160
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,440
I think people have pretty much
decided what they've decided

1161
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,920
about this one, you know, and
that's his own doing to to your

1162
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:50,200
point.
Sure.

1163
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,040
I, I, I do think though, that
there's examples within the

1164
01:06:54,040 --> 01:07:01,960
movie of Johnson responding more
to fans talking about The Force

1165
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:07,040
Awakens and what The Last Jedi
might be, then actually working

1166
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,960
with the characters that he was
handed, then working with the

1167
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,920
characters that he has been
building throughout the script.

1168
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:18,840
Like I, I think one of the worst
elements of this movie is, is

1169
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:23,880
the treatment of Rey.
And it doesn't give her anything

1170
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,320
interesting to do it.
It doesn't give her any

1171
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,520
meaningful challenges that she
can't just overcome without any

1172
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:35,360
effort or training.
And and you see her at the end

1173
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:40,000
of the Force Awakens.
We've kind of like JJ for all

1174
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:45,240
the not great stuff he did, he
actually resolves the emotional

1175
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,000
weight of her parentage, her her
parenthood.

1176
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:52,200
Like Maz Kanata talks to her
about it and says, hey, like

1177
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,840
you're looking for somebody to
come back so you'll have

1178
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,920
somewhere to belong.
Belonging lies in front of you,

1179
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:03,880
not behind you.
And and she has an actual

1180
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,840
emotional moment over that.
And you see her grow as a

1181
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,600
character at the end of The
Force Awakens in that her

1182
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,680
parentage is solved.
Like, like, we're done with it.

1183
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,920
She has found belonging with a
new group of people.

1184
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,840
And then in this movie, all of a
sudden, we jump right back to,

1185
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,240
oh, but your parents are
nobodies.

1186
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:30,960
And there's nothing within the
films because whether Ryan likes

1187
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:35,560
it or not, his film exists in a
series, in a universe of films.

1188
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,120
There's nothing within the films
that would indicate that Rey

1189
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:44,000
should be interested if her
parents are somebody's or not.

1190
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:46,439
She never cared if they were
somebody's.

1191
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,920
She was only concerned that they
were coming back and once she

1192
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,640
released that, she's able to
emotionally move on.

1193
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,000
And then we get to The Last Jedi
and all of a sudden she's

1194
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:01,840
concerned that there's
somebodies and like there's

1195
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,319
nobody who cared about that
other than Star Wars fans.

1196
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:08,600
In between The Last Jedi or The
Force Awakens, The Last Jedi,

1197
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,240
Star Wars fans were going nuts.
Like who?

1198
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,920
Who is Rey's parentage?
Like who?

1199
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,479
Who are her parents?
They have to be a Skywalker or

1200
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,880
maybe Palpatine or right, and
they're throwing out all these

1201
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,120
options, and then Rian Johnson
has to come in and say, hey,

1202
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,840
everybody, screw you.
Her parents were nobodies.

1203
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,960
And it has nothing to do with
what's actually going on for Rey

1204
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,160
as a character.
See, I disagree because I think

1205
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,479
that thematically it's not just
addressing her lineage, it's

1206
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:41,000
addressing her role in being
trained by Luke.

1207
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:45,800
Like, they send her to Luke.
And even if she has has gotten

1208
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,920
over the emotional journey of
her parents, at the end of the

1209
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:51,920
first movie, JJ puts her in
front of Luke.

1210
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:56,280
And so it makes sense that being
someone who is new to this whole

1211
01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:01,600
thing and now being confronted
with, I have Force abilities and

1212
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,400
I have to live up to someone
like Luke Skywalker.

1213
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,080
And my nemesis is somebody who
comes from the sort of royal

1214
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:14,440
bloodline in Kylo Ren that she
is emotional and, you know,

1215
01:10:14,440 --> 01:10:18,040
thrown into disequilibrium by
the fact that she doesn't know

1216
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:19,800
what her place is in any of
this.

1217
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:24,000
And so by freeing herself of the
idea that her parents had to be

1218
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,840
somebody, she's also freeing
herself of the idea that, like,

1219
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,000
Luke Skywalker has to be
somebody to her.

1220
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:32,840
And Luke, you know, for all she
knows, Luke has continued to dig

1221
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,520
his heels in and not be helpful.
And she finally basically finds

1222
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,720
it within herself to go off and
do what she needs to do,

1223
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:43,280
mirroring the journey of Luke in
Empire.

1224
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:47,320
I mean, like Luke disobeys Yoda
to go do what Yoda says to not

1225
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:49,280
do.
And in this movie, she disobeys

1226
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,520
Luke to go disobey what he says
to not do.

1227
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:56,120
And I think that one of the big
frustrations for me is like, I

1228
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:01,200
think that Johnson recognized
what JJ was doing with the 1st

1229
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:05,640
movie, which is I'm gonna, I'm
going to fulfill what A New Hope

1230
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,000
was to that trilogy by just
making a carbon copy of A New

1231
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,160
Hope.
Whereas he says I need to

1232
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:16,320
fulfill what Empire did in its
trilogy.

1233
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,760
And instead of just making a
carbon copy of Empire, he takes

1234
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:24,120
some of the basic like shades of
Empire and themes of Empire and

1235
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:26,520
weaves them into this movie.
And I think it does fulfill

1236
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,960
essentially the same function of
Empire in the original trilogy.

1237
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,240
I just think that he does it in
a way that is unexpected.

1238
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:38,040
And I, I don't know, man.
I think we're talking in circles

1239
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:43,960
here.
He does it in ways that spit on

1240
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,400
what has come from the past.
I don't like, I just don't see

1241
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,880
that dude.
Dude, there's no way to look at

1242
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:55,480
what he does to Luke as a
character, as anything other

1243
01:11:55,480 --> 01:12:02,920
than the assassination of what
we all knew and loved and we're

1244
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:08,120
thankful for and admired.
That you had this character who

1245
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:13,600
represents the human desire to
see good in dark places.

1246
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:21,640
And now that character, because
he saw darkness in his nephew's

1247
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,600
heart or mind or whatever, he
saw darkness there.

1248
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,000
And so he has a moment of
weakness where he's going to try

1249
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:34,080
and kill him.
Like, I don't know if I can

1250
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:41,480
fully explain how far of a leap
in logic that is, how much

1251
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:43,800
suspension of disbelief you have
to have.

1252
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:50,800
I'm not opposed to Luke becoming
a grumpy old mentor who has gone

1253
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:55,480
through some stuff, but for that
to be the choice, for that to be

1254
01:12:55,480 --> 01:13:00,400
the thing that throws him off.
And then like, he knows that

1255
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:05,280
Snoke has influenced Ben.
Like, it's not like this evil is

1256
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:07,960
just a rising within Ben Solo on
his own.

1257
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,160
He knows that he's being seduced
the same way his father is.

1258
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,520
And with that knowledge, what
does he do?

1259
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,520
He just throws up his hand and
goes, eh, F it.

1260
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,160
He can just be Snoke's pawn and
I'm going to go die like.

1261
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,360
I don't think again, I think
you're being reductionistic,

1262
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:27,040
man.
Like if he sees that in his

1263
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,840
nephew, it is mirroring what he
saw in his own father.

1264
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,600
And he couldn't keep the Emperor
from having influence over Darth

1265
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:38,120
Vader, but he still chose to
hope that there was good there.

1266
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:42,600
And sometimes that means like
you can't step in at this moment

1267
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,920
and you have to hope that there
will be a moment that you can

1268
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,640
step in at the same time.
The fact that he was ready to

1269
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,080
kill him is completely
consistent with his character.

1270
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,760
He was ready to kill his dad on
a number of occasions.

1271
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,000
Even after finding out that it
was his dad, he was ready to

1272
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:57,400
kill him on a number of
occasions.

1273
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:04,400
Like I, I just, I think that
what Johnson is doing is taking

1274
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,640
that character and just saying
like, all right, what will this

1275
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:10,440
look like 30 years from now?
A guy who has not tempted by the

1276
01:14:10,440 --> 01:14:14,400
dark side, but burdened by his
knowledge of an exposure to the

1277
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,720
dark side.
It's really similar to like a

1278
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,160
Frodo type character to me.
Like what happens with Frodo is

1279
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,600
completely consistent with what
you see of Frodo in the first

1280
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:27,160
movie, and by the third movie,
it's like, oh, he's gone to some

1281
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,560
really dark places and that has
an effect on a person.

1282
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,200
I think he just does that to
Luke here, but it doesn't

1283
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,560
undermine or negate the journey
that Luke's been on to that

1284
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:37,760
point.
It 100% negates it.

1285
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:39,960
Like, let's just throw Frodo off
for a second.

1286
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,240
There's an external source of
evil penetrating his soul.

1287
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,640
That's completely different than
what we're talking about here in

1288
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:51,920
Star Wars.
The idea that because I agree

1289
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,120
with you, Luke comes close to
killing his father when they're

1290
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,320
fighting on the Death Star and
Return of the Jedi.

1291
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:01,480
And then he doesn't.
He stops.

1292
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,880
He throws his lightsaber away
and makes that choice.

1293
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,440
And now we have Rian Johnson
just saying, yeah, he made that

1294
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:14,720
important character defining
series franchise deciding

1295
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,360
decision.
And yeah, you know what?

1296
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,080
I, I don't really think that
that stuck.

1297
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,080
I I think he got old and and
lazy and just decided to kill

1298
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:26,120
his nephew.
Nope, he's he.

1299
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,840
He's actually going to move
further back as a character and

1300
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,800
be less interested in redeeming
his nephew and more interested

1301
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,920
in just lazily solving the
problem by killing him.

1302
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,640
But he.
Even says that he momentarily

1303
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:42,800
had a lapse in judgement and
decided not to do anything the

1304
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:46,280
same that he did with his dad on
the Death Star in the third.

1305
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:50,320
Like why does why does him
having a a defining moment in

1306
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,280
his life in the third movie mean
that he can never make a mistake

1307
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,560
again as a person?
I'm not saying that he can't,

1308
01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:00,640
I'm saying that to put the exact
same decision in front of him

1309
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:05,960
and say well he failed it this
time is lazy writing.

1310
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,720
I don't know that he failed it
though, like he failed in that

1311
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,480
he let down his nephew and
that's what he says, but he

1312
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:14,600
passes the test in terms of not
killing him.

1313
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,480
I I just like, again, I think
it's completely consistent with

1314
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:22,600
who we've we've been introduced
to this character as especially

1315
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:27,000
having seen the destruction
wrought upon the Galaxy and his

1316
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,800
own family from his dad getting
tempted to the dark side when he

1317
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,520
sees that sort of darkness
tempting his own nephew.

1318
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:35,800
Of course you're going to be
tempted to want to put a stop to

1319
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,040
it before it even starts because
in his mind, millions of people

1320
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,280
might die.
And he says, I thought about it.

1321
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:43,480
I didn't do anything about it,
but it was already too late.

1322
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:46,160
And then they they it's a great
Rashomon moment.

1323
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,600
Like they pan down and they show
Ben Solo a scared little boy

1324
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,520
like, and Luke realizes what
have I done?

1325
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:55,720
But then it's too late.
It puts everything into motion

1326
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,320
and like.
Ah yes, the classic Rashomon

1327
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,680
rash man way of convincing Brad
to like a movie.

1328
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:05,480
I'm not trying to convince.
Listen, listen, dude, you have

1329
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:06,960
made your choice a long time
ago.

1330
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,560
Just like, just like Anakin
Skywalker, you have made your

1331
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:14,200
choice.
So I brought up Rian Johnson 15

1332
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:18,360
minutes ago because I wanted to
just say one thing I don't know

1333
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:20,200
if you'll agree with me on
because I know that you don't

1334
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,320
like this movie.
But one thing that I would like

1335
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,880
to briefly talk to you about is
watching this movie.

1336
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:32,720
For better or for worse, it felt
like a movie that a guy that was

1337
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:37,040
way more well versed in movies
made than JJ Abrams.

1338
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:40,600
Like there's just much more
purposeful camera movement.

1339
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,440
And I, I brought up Spielberg
earlier.

1340
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,680
There's a ton of wonders in this
movie where you start, you know,

1341
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,160
looking out the window of a
spaceship and then it pulls back

1342
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,840
and then it pans over and you
get 3 setups in one shot.

1343
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:56,080
I think it's, it's a much more
like deliberately made movie.

1344
01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:00,720
And there's a ton of references
to other films in the shots of

1345
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:02,640
this movie.
I guess I'm wondering, Brad,

1346
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,040
apart from how much you hate
Ryan Johnson's writing in the

1347
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,720
direction that the movie takes,
like, what did you think about

1348
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:14,520
the actual visual language of
the movie 'cause I also thought

1349
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:19,080
that like, Force Awakens looked
like a movie that was filmed on

1350
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,680
like the Disney back lot,
whereas this movie looked way

1351
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:23,280
more like a movie.
The lighting, the

1352
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:27,040
cinematography, I think it might
be the best looking of All Star

1353
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:29,600
Wars movies.
It's really, really beautiful to

1354
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,160
look at in parts, man.
So I, you know, if there is a

1355
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,600
silver lining, I guess I'm
hoping that you appreciated any

1356
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:40,760
of that.
I, I don't know if it, I think

1357
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:47,000
that I was so distracted by not
enjoying the action sequences

1358
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:51,200
that I, I don't know if I could
have said that I would have

1359
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:55,080
noticed a lot of the slower
scenes and how they use the

1360
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,640
camera in those scenes.
I think I was also very

1361
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:04,960
distracted by characters like
Holdo and just yeah, I was very

1362
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,800
distracted by the script and how
horrifically bad it's

1363
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:14,120
hemorrhaging at every moment.
So no, I don't think I noticed

1364
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,280
it as much.
I do think that the action in

1365
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:23,880
this film is mediocre at best.
Like the the opening.

1366
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:28,640
The opening scene with the
bombers is just really dumb and

1367
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:32,640
boring and there's no movement
and there's no energy to the

1368
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:33,920
scene.
Dude, I thought if there was

1369
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:35,960
going to be one point of
commonality today, it was going

1370
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:37,400
to be that.
We both love that opening

1371
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:41,600
sequence 'cause you know how in
The Force Awakens, JJ does that

1372
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,120
thing where they're first
escaping on the Millennium

1373
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:49,440
Falcon and he does the like Zack
Snyder zoom in a couple times

1374
01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:52,120
where it's like a mile away and
then it'll like zoom in real

1375
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,960
close on the on the Falcon.
That visual language threw me

1376
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,440
off a lot because I'd never seen
that in a Star Wars movie.

1377
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:00,960
And there's a lot of stuff in
this movie that I've never seen

1378
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:02,480
in a Star Wars movie, to be
fair.

1379
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,920
But I also thought that like the
way the camera moved in that

1380
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:10,200
opening sequence was like, oh,
this dude has been watching

1381
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:15,200
Raiders of the Lost Ark and us
like Spielberg action sequences.

1382
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,200
To to start this movie, I
thought it was absolutely

1383
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:19,760
thrilling.
It was right up there with the

1384
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:22,800
Revenge of the Sith for best
openings for me.

1385
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:27,600
Oh dude the opening of this
movie was so boring.

1386
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:32,920
So boring.
The the whole bomber sequence is

1387
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:38,320
asininely stupid.
The prank call to Poe or that

1388
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:40,120
Poe makes.
That's my least favorite moment

1389
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,280
in the whole movie 'cause it's
it's close to the JJ Marvel

1390
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:44,520
humor thing.
Not sure.

1391
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:46,960
I will say to his credit, that
is like the only time you get

1392
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,560
that type of humor in the movie.
And I like, if there's one thing

1393
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:55,600
that JJ does worse than Ryan, I
think you got to say JJ leaned

1394
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,960
on the Marvel humor.
There there.

1395
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,240
I will say the other point of
that is the porgs, the the

1396
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:06,680
little furry bird creatures with
Chewy, like every bit of humor

1397
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:11,720
with them is just dumb and silly
and like just doesn't vibe with

1398
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,480
the Star Wars universe at all.
Also like the fact that he

1399
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:18,760
relegates Chewy to an Uber
driver is just kind of

1400
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:21,440
disappointing.
Like he doesn't destroy Chewy's

1401
01:21:21,440 --> 01:21:25,040
character the way he does with
Luke, but you know, it's Chewy.

1402
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,240
Like he has a major role to play
in the other films as a

1403
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,080
sidekick.
And in this one it's just kind

1404
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:31,920
of like, hey, can you drive me
around?

1405
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:38,680
That'd be, that'd be great.
I I think though, man, I, I, we

1406
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:40,040
were talking about the opening
scene.

1407
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:41,680
That's OK.
No, because we, we need to wind

1408
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,560
down.
Listen, last thing I'll ask you,

1409
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,880
though, in comparison to Force
Awakens, last week you said that

1410
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,200
you wish that JJ had just not
resurrected these characters at

1411
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,760
all, that we could have just
gotten a new trilogy free from,

1412
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:56,920
I guess that wasn't last week,
two weeks ago.

1413
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,640
You know what I mean?
Free from Han Solo and Luke and

1414
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,680
Leia.
I, I do feel a bit of sympathy

1415
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:06,160
with JJ or with Ryan Johnson
here, though, because I think he

1416
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:09,800
does a really good job in
relegate, like you said,

1417
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,560
relegating Chewie to an Uber
driver.

1418
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:13,680
Chewie's not necessary to this
story.

1419
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:16,440
And I think that like you kind
of get saddled with these

1420
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:20,080
characters by JJ and then it's
like, once JJ brings them in

1421
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,640
back into the universe, you, you
feel obligated to use them in a

1422
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:27,400
really important way.
But I I think it would have felt

1423
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:30,240
even more shoehorned in and
forced if he tried to give all

1424
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:31,760
those characters more screen
time.

1425
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,960
So it to me at least, it seems
like he's trying to do what you

1426
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,560
suggested, which is like, yes,
have them make an appearance,

1427
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,760
but like they're not necessarily
important to this particular

1428
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:41,760
story.
And I'm wondering why that's a

1429
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:45,680
bad thing here when you hated
the opposite of it last week.

1430
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,920
No, I, I, I'm not saying that
Chewie has to be a major thing

1431
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,480
in the movie.
What I am saying is let let's

1432
01:22:53,480 --> 01:22:58,240
take death as an example.
So in the previous film, a

1433
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:02,000
little small lesser known
character named Han Solo dies.

1434
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:07,480
In this movie, no name bomber
lady dies at the start of the

1435
01:23:07,480 --> 01:23:14,160
film, right?
We get an entire scene of Rose

1436
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,800
and Finn discussing the
importance of her sacrifice, of

1437
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:23,520
how Rose is mourning this
character, of right, how you're

1438
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,360
trying to escape after what my
sister did right.

1439
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:30,400
We get this whole emotional
scene about the death of a

1440
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:38,640
character we saw for 12 seconds.
And yet, when Luke and Chewie

1441
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:42,960
have their only interaction of
the entire movie, Luke is about

1442
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,360
to find out that Han dies, but
nobody actually tells him that

1443
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:48,960
on screen.
We just cut away to Kylo Ren.

1444
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:55,320
What?
You're telling me that within

1445
01:23:55,320 --> 01:24:00,840
the world of Star Wars, it's not
important for us to see Luke

1446
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:04,280
mourn the loss of his absolute
best friend in the world?

1447
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:09,600
The husband to his sister, the
father to his nephew, the guy he

1448
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:12,640
saved the Galaxy with.
Like you're, you're not going to

1449
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,560
let Chewie and Luke mourn that
together?

1450
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:18,080
Like I, I don't know what that's
going to look like, but that's a

1451
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:21,040
meaningful moment of catharsis
that Johnson's just like, no,

1452
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:25,400
not, not important.
Let's get back to Rose and her

1453
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:28,640
sister.
And it's just little things like

1454
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:33,840
that where I'm like, why?
Where is any understanding of

1455
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,760
the importance of characters and
their relationships in this

1456
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:38,520
movie?
It's just missing.

1457
01:24:40,440 --> 01:24:42,840
Yeah, I guess I, I just disagree
with that man.

1458
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,880
Like, I, I thought that the
there's like a, an emotional

1459
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,160
weight to him saying like,
where's Han?

1460
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:52,800
And then you know that off
screen he's being told what

1461
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,240
happened.
I don't feel like, I feel like

1462
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,440
showing that would almost be
like torture porn a little bit.

1463
01:24:57,440 --> 01:25:01,520
Like we don't need to see him
weeping about that because we,

1464
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:04,120
we already know, we've wept for
it already as an audience.

1465
01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:07,880
And so to revisit that just for
the sake of Luke's character

1466
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:12,200
slows down the movie, but also
is is just unnecessary to

1467
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,600
keeping the movie going forward.
And I know this is a long movie.

1468
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:17,920
I didn't have a problem with the
pacing of this movie.

1469
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:19,560
I thought it moved really,
really well.

1470
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:24,600
It it almost tells a complete
arc of a story before you even

1471
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:26,280
get to crate at the end of the
movie.

1472
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:29,160
And then you get that cool.
Like what I said about James

1473
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:31,760
Cameron, how he always just
gives you like a bonus ending to

1474
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,480
the movie.
I I thought that here, I thought

1475
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:37,240
that Ryan could have taken the
easy way out and ended the movie

1476
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:41,440
30 minutes earlier when a lot of
these question marks were still

1477
01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:43,000
up in the air.
But he chose to gave a

1478
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:47,080
conclusive ending while still
leaving it open for that glimmer

1479
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:48,520
of hope.
It's going to come in the third

1480
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:51,800
movie.
So like, you know, we have not

1481
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,640
said anything we hadn't said
already, Brad.

1482
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,200
We're both in very, very
different places on this film.

1483
01:25:56,480 --> 01:25:58,240
We've gone for almost an hour
and a half.

1484
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,160
I do want to make sure that I
don't get the last word here.

1485
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:05,200
We're going to throw over to
let's make it a double, but

1486
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,000
anything else you want to get
out of the way before we get to

1487
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:12,800
that, Brad?
Oh, man, there's a lot of things

1488
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:17,920
that I would say, yeah, maybe
we'll maybe we'll record a bonus

1489
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:18,960
episode sometime.
Bob.

1490
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:29,520
I I, I really just feel like at
the end of the day, there are so

1491
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:36,200
many things in this movie that
you can't undo.

1492
01:26:36,440 --> 01:26:40,200
But like, there's no going back
to a time like The Force

1493
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,880
Awakens.
I walked out of the theatres and

1494
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:46,480
was like, yeah, OK, let's see
where it goes.

1495
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:51,360
That that was my general take.
In no way, shape or form did I

1496
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:57,600
walk out of the theatre going,
wow, that ruined Star Wars.

1497
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:02,720
And and at the end of the day,
man, like Star Wars fandom may

1498
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:08,120
be toxic in some ways, but this
wasn't just Star Wars fandom.

1499
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:17,840
Like Star Wars as an IP has been
destroyed, absolutely destroyed.

1500
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:21,280
And it started with The Last
Jedi.

1501
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:25,840
And I think when you look at the
way Rian Johnson interacts with

1502
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:30,000
fans, the way he treats
characters in the movie, The way

1503
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:36,760
he completely mocks what the
movies used to be and steals

1504
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:41,480
from previous movies when he
wants to, the the way he didn't

1505
01:27:41,480 --> 01:27:44,880
write a cohesive script that
makes any sense whatsoever for

1506
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:48,240
the characters.
I think that there's just a lot

1507
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:55,040
of evidence that he wanted to
tell his story over anything

1508
01:27:55,040 --> 01:28:00,040
else, that he had his own fanboy
script of what Star Wars should

1509
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:04,080
be as a franchise.
And he threw it into the movie

1510
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:09,520
and he sacrificed any semblance
of of the characters that

1511
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,440
established Star Wars and made
it what it is.

1512
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:16,960
Like, like, truly it in my mind,
like there is a comparison to be

1513
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:23,880
made here between the the statue
tearing down the whole incidents

1514
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,280
of back in the day.
And.

1515
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:29,040
But he's not trying to pull down
Confederate statues in the

1516
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:30,360
South.
He's trying to go into

1517
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:33,400
Washington, DC and say, hey,
Abraham Lincoln.

1518
01:28:33,480 --> 01:28:35,440
Yeah.
No, turns out he wasn't so

1519
01:28:35,440 --> 01:28:36,800
great.
Let's pull that statue down.

1520
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:39,640
Oh, the Washington Monument.
Well, he owns slaves.

1521
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:42,680
We should probably pull that
statue down too.

1522
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,480
And he literally does that with
some of the most important

1523
01:28:46,480 --> 01:28:49,040
characters in the Star Wars, the
universe that made it what it

1524
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:52,120
is, that made it to the point
where he could even have a film

1525
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:55,720
to make about it 40 years after
the original film came out.

1526
01:28:56,200 --> 01:29:01,000
Like, like, there's so much of
this movie that just rips apart

1527
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,920
Star Wars at its core, what it
was all about.

1528
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:10,720
And now here we are 8-9 years
later and Star Wars is an

1529
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:15,360
absolute shell of itself.
They haven't even tried to make

1530
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:21,280
a movie since 20/18/19 when Rise
of Skywalker came out and

1531
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,320
instead they've made a series of
average.

1532
01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:27,320
Like I know a lot of people like
The Mandalorian, they liked

1533
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:31,600
Andor, but overall they've made
a lot of really average to

1534
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:34,120
horrifically bad television
shows.

1535
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:40,000
Agreed and and I can't help but
look back to my leaving the

1536
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:44,520
theater from Last Jedi and being
like I told you so.

1537
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:47,000
You know this.
Is the direction Disney and

1538
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:50,320
Kathleen Kennedy has chosen to
go, and they're reaping the

1539
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:54,000
rewards.
And I it makes me sad that this

1540
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:58,480
is the last thing I'll say.
It makes me sad because

1541
01:29:58,480 --> 01:30:04,240
everything Mark Hamill said in
his media tour about this film

1542
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,320
was true.
He wanted to be the guy who

1543
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:13,160
brings hope and love and joy to
the quote UN quote Galaxy of

1544
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:18,880
Star Wars fans and that got
ripped away from him by Rian

1545
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:21,480
Johnson.
Like he literally said over and

1546
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:25,520
over and over, I read this
script and I continually went to

1547
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,360
Ryan and said, this isn't Luke
Skywalker.

1548
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,360
It's it's Jake Skywalker.
It's somebody that nobody would

1549
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:34,280
even recognize.
Ryan never listened to him.

1550
01:30:34,480 --> 01:30:38,200
And then when all the fans had
the same reaction, he just got

1551
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:43,480
angry and, and pedantic and
condescending and, and it

1552
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:47,480
there's so much beauty in the
Star Wars world.

1553
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:51,360
There's so much beauty in the
real world, and when it gets

1554
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:55,200
snuffed out by cynical people
who think they're smarter than

1555
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:58,880
everyone else, there are few
things that make me more angry.

1556
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:00,720
Yeah, I can tell how angry you
are.

1557
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:07,640
And you know, it was important
to me today to come in here and

1558
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:09,960
make sure that you felt like you
were able to speak your piece.

1559
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,480
And I think I'm being 100%
honest with you.

1560
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:19,400
I feel like I didn't say enough
on my end to defend the movie or

1561
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:22,920
or not even to defend the movie
to explain the reasons why I

1562
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,400
think the movie works.
I basically just said I think it

1563
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:28,600
works over and over.
And I feel like my side of the

1564
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:31,120
argument was not well
represented here.

1565
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,400
And so I really would like to do
go for it man.

1566
01:31:33,480 --> 01:31:37,760
I really would like to do a, a
longer episode on this 'cause I

1567
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:40,360
think I think it's worth
debating man.

1568
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:42,640
And this is a probably the best
debate we've ever had on this

1569
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,840
podcast that didn't just evolve
into US calling names or being

1570
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:50,200
angry with each other.
But like, I, I think the movie

1571
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:51,640
works.
I've never found it to be

1572
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:54,520
cynical.
I in fact, I've, I find it to be

1573
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:58,080
to deepen the themes of the
original trilogy in a way that

1574
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:00,280
make me appreciate the original
trilogy more.

1575
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:05,240
If it wasn't for this movie, I
like, I probably wouldn't like

1576
01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:07,080
the original trilogy as much as
I do.

1577
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:09,760
And it's not because I think
this is bad and the original

1578
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:13,800
trilogy is good in comparison.
I think that this movie when he

1579
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,800
comes to the realization that he
says I will not be the last Jedi

1580
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:21,600
and that it is getting passed on
and they cut to Rey like fully

1581
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:26,240
living into I'm a freaking Jedi.
I got teary eyed at the end of

1582
01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:29,240
this movie, man, I it just it
worked for me.

1583
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:32,080
I and I, you know what Mark
Hamill is more of an expert on

1584
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,280
who Luke Skywalker should be
than I will ever be.

1585
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:37,040
And I will say that like,
obviously he played the guy.

1586
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:38,800
He he helped create that
character.

1587
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,240
I just can't.
It's one of those movies that it

1588
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:45,160
works so well for me that I
don't get angry.

1589
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:49,280
And I don't think anyone's wrong
by not liking it.

1590
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:51,640
Like I, I think I've moved
beyond like, oh, you didn't get

1591
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:53,440
it.
That's not what I'm saying at

1592
01:32:53,440 --> 01:32:56,400
all.
It just does baffle me because

1593
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,080
the marks of a poorly made movie
are so obvious sometimes.

1594
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:05,000
Like, and we both agreed, The
Rise of Skywalker has all of the

1595
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:07,240
marks of a movie that is just
ineptly made.

1596
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:10,640
And I think that this movie
doesn't have those marks.

1597
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:14,240
It takes swings and it it makes
controversial choices, and I

1598
01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:16,240
will, I'll absolutely agree with
that.

1599
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:19,320
It takes a lot of choices that
people disagreed with.

1600
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,760
But to your point about it
ruining Star Wars, you're right,

1601
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:27,920
it did ruin Star Wars.
It ruined Star Wars by taking

1602
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:34,440
huge chances and then trusting
that they were going to allow

1603
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:37,440
those huge chances to play out
in a third movie.

1604
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:43,080
And I think if you want to split
the blame, 5050, you can put 50%

1605
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:46,600
of the blame on Ryan Johnson for
taking huge risks and then

1606
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:50,160
handing it off to another guy.
Whereas JJ Abrams took zero

1607
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:51,800
risks and handed it off to Ryan
Johnson.

1608
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:54,920
But you also have to put 50% of
the blame on the entire Disney

1609
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,840
team for for tucking their tails
and turning around and trying to

1610
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:02,520
undo everything.
Because one way or the other, I

1611
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:03,840
think they should have played it
out.

1612
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:07,320
If we got a third movie that
everyone hated even more than

1613
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:10,600
this because it went continued
going down the quote UN quote

1614
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:12,880
Ryan Johnson path, that'd be one
thing.

1615
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,240
And then they could close the
chapter on like, right, we're

1616
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:18,480
not taking any risks anymore.
But what they decided was we're

1617
01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:21,800
not taking any risks anymore
midstream in this trilogy.

1618
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,240
And then you get the rise of
Skywalker as a result.

1619
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:27,200
It's a freaking mess.
And every subsequent TV show

1620
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:30,440
they've made has taken less and
less chances.

1621
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:33,280
And I think that's part of why
the Star Wars fan base hates it

1622
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:37,200
now too, is they're like, we've
seen you try to take chances and

1623
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:40,200
we know the only reason that
you're not taking chances now is

1624
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:41,760
because you're scared to take
chances.

1625
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:44,960
And so I'm I'm kind of with the
Star Wars fan base on this one.

1626
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:47,280
Like this movie did ruin Star
Wars.

1627
01:34:47,280 --> 01:34:51,560
I think it's a great movie, but
I think that it it through a

1628
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:58,000
spotlight on how Disney is
afraid of artistic expression in

1629
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:02,880
a way that, hey, we have to try
to undo all this because we're

1630
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:05,400
afraid that we might lose a
couple dollars on it.

1631
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:10,040
And it has completely cratered
any creativity in the Star Wars

1632
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:12,800
universe since then.
So I'm I'm with you there, man.

1633
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:14,440
I just think I'm there for
different reasons.

1634
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:17,440
Brad, we have to do let's make
it a double here.

1635
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:20,800
So let's throw over to that our
final segment of the day.

1636
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:23,520
Let's make it a double.
We're near the end of the

1637
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:25,120
episodes.
Oh, thanks.

1638
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:26,920
Listening to the film and
whiskey Show.

1639
01:35:27,320 --> 01:35:29,480
Let's favor another film with
this one, even if it's

1640
01:35:29,480 --> 01:35:31,320
struggling.
It's a final segment of the day.

1641
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:33,960
Now let's make it a double.
Let's Make It a Double is the

1642
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:36,840
part of the show where we pick a
movie to pair up with this one

1643
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:38,360
to make the perfect double
feature.

1644
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:40,720
Brad, would you like to go first
or would you like me to go

1645
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:44,520
first?
I tried to think about movies

1646
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:49,080
that ruined the franchise, and I
don't think it's nearly you

1647
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:51,800
can't hit as hard as Rian
Johnson did.

1648
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:55,840
I'll say X-Men Dark Phoenix.
I never got around to seeing it

1649
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:59,200
because I heard how bad it was.
Yeah, it was pretty universally

1650
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:05,080
panned by everyone, so sure, go
watch that with this flaming

1651
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:08,240
garbage heap of a movie.
I'm going to pair it.

1652
01:36:08,480 --> 01:36:12,400
I think I told you I I had the
realization that I really love

1653
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:15,160
second chapters in a trilogy.
I think it's the hardest thing

1654
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,040
to pull off.
And so when I feel like they do

1655
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:20,400
pull it off, I I appreciate it
more than the beginning or the

1656
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,640
end.
So I'm gonna pair it with my

1657
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:25,080
favorite second chapter in a
trilogy, and that's The Two

1658
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:27,960
Towers.
I think that they both do a

1659
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:30,080
really good job of highlighting
failure and hope.

1660
01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:33,520
And Brad, you know, if you
disagree with that, then you can

1661
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:36,680
still watch The Two Towers as an
example of something that does

1662
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:39,640
it better than this movie.
And then you can end on a high

1663
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:40,960
note for the evening.
But these?

1664
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:47,160
Those two movies being paired
together in a sentence, Yeah.

1665
01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:49,280
Final scores Who's going first?
Wait.

1666
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:51,160
Go for it.
Bob, where are you?

1667
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:54,440
Where are you at?
I was at an 8.5 before I

1668
01:36:54,440 --> 01:36:58,240
rewatched it because I I
remember it being flawed.

1669
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:01,520
I still think there's a couple
cutaway gags that don't

1670
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:03,720
necessarily work.
I think that the character of

1671
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,520
Rose definitely could have used
another pass.

1672
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:09,200
I think she is very on the nose
with what she says.

1673
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,680
I still don't like the saving of
Finn at the end of the movie.

1674
01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:17,440
I think this is one of the best
blockbuster films of the 21st

1675
01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:20,280
century.
It moves like gangbusters.

1676
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:23,880
It's thrilling, it's well, it's
made by a guy who knows how to

1677
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:26,000
make movies.
And I don't just mean in terms

1678
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:29,600
of scripting.
I mean, like he is well versed

1679
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:32,200
in film and knows what he's
doing.

1680
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:33,800
Whether you like what he's doing
or not.

1681
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:37,920
It was apparent to me that this
guy is a way better director

1682
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:41,840
than AJJ Abrams.
Watching this movie, I can't

1683
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:43,840
decide between a nine and a nine
and a half Brad.

1684
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:46,800
It's one of my favorite movies
of the 21st century.

1685
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:48,680
From a huge blockbuster
standpoint.

1686
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:50,600
It's my favorite Star Wars
movie.

1687
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:52,880
May not be the best one.
It's my favorite one.

1688
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:56,120
I'm going to give it a 9 1/2 out
of 10.

1689
01:37:56,120 --> 01:38:01,360
Man, I love this movie.
Here's the thing, Bob, I, I

1690
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:05,960
truly like went through the
thought exercise and I, I was

1691
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:09,680
like, you know what?
What if just just work with me

1692
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:13,960
for a second?
What if you took every element

1693
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:18,360
of this movie and kept it
exactly the same except it was

1694
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,800
set in the Star Trek universe?
I did the same.

1695
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:24,440
Thing yeah, but right, like take
just take some of the aliens and

1696
01:38:24,440 --> 01:38:26,680
make them Star Trek.
The aliens, right?

1697
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:30,160
Like just carbon copy, but it's
Star Trek.

1698
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:32,880
I think this is a six out of 10
movie.

1699
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:38,800
Like the There's just so many
issues with the movie on a

1700
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:42,000
script level, on a visualization
level.

1701
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:44,920
I I think the CGI is pretty
terrible at points.

1702
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:50,120
The ways in which the characters
talk to each other almost never

1703
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:54,440
feels real or authentic.
To be frank, some of the only

1704
01:38:54,440 --> 01:38:59,760
times it happens is when it
feels like Johnson let's the

1705
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:02,000
older characters just be
themselves.

1706
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:06,640
Like truly one of the only great
moments in this movie is where

1707
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:11,800
Luke is allowed to drop the I'm
a grumpy old hermit that wants

1708
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:17,480
to die Facade and he talks to
R2D2 and and it's the only time

1709
01:39:17,480 --> 01:39:21,440
you see him be a real human
being named Luke Skywalker.

1710
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:25,000
I think the joke that Leia makes
to 3PO when she tells him to

1711
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:29,640
wipe that wipe that smirk off
his face is like pitch perfect

1712
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:33,960
for what Star Wars humor should
be and has been.

1713
01:39:34,440 --> 01:39:39,440
But like there's moments where
you see that maybe it could have

1714
01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:43,440
been something, but then you
have entire characters whose

1715
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:47,240
entire arc hold those
specifically is to treat

1716
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:50,360
somebody else like they're a bad
puppy dog that they need to

1717
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:53,920
scold.
And and there's just so many

1718
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:57,240
issues with this movie that
removed from the Star Wars

1719
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:59,040
universe.
I think it's a six out of 10

1720
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:05,000
because of the fact that it is
in the Star Wars universe and

1721
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:11,920
there is so much disrespect for
Star Wars as a as AIP, for

1722
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:14,680
everything that came before it,
for everything that was ever

1723
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:17,360
meaningful to anybody who
watched Star Wars.

1724
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:22,240
I award this film 0 out of 10
stars.

1725
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:28,160
I I I will not give it a single
half point Bob all.

1726
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:31,920
Right, Well then I'm glad I gave
it a 9.5 'cause I, I knew we'd

1727
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:33,720
be pretty polar opposite from
each other.

1728
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:37,480
This is, I mean by far the, the
farthest we've ever been.

1729
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:40,320
And that includes when you
didn't give a score at all to

1730
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:41,680
Moonrise Kingdom.
So.

1731
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:46,840
'Cause it had child porn in it.
So we're coming to an average of

1732
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:51,040
a 4.75 on this movie, but we'd
like to know what you think.

1733
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:53,560
Like, seriously, please.
It's been long enough that I

1734
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:57,920
think people's feelings are very
entrenched at this point, but

1735
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:01,240
it's not as incendiary.
You know, there was like a

1736
01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:05,320
really long discourse on this
movie, like two years long, and

1737
01:41:05,320 --> 01:41:07,600
then The Rise of Skywalker
happened and it flamed back up

1738
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:10,160
again because this movie caused
The Rise of Skywalker.

1739
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:14,640
But I think the dust has settled
enough that we all know what we

1740
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:16,360
think.
And I'd like to know what those

1741
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:19,200
opinions are.
You can find us on any of our

1742
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:24,080
social media accounts, Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,

1743
01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:27,800
YouTube, even LinkedIn at Film
Whiskey.

1744
01:41:28,200 --> 01:41:30,680
Or you can join the conversation
on Discord.

1745
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:35,600
We will be on there calling each
other names, being as childish

1746
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,600
as you would ever hope for.
If you want to join that

1747
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,480
conversation specifically, you
can find the link at the end of

1748
01:41:41,480 --> 01:41:42,880
every single one of our show
notes.

1749
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:46,760
All right, next week we will be
pivoting away from Star Wars,

1750
01:41:46,760 --> 01:41:49,600
but we're camping out in
Disneyville as we return to the

1751
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,440
MCU with 2018's Black Panther.
So join us for that one next

1752
01:41:54,440 --> 01:41:56,760
week.
But until then, and signing off

1753
01:41:56,760 --> 01:42:01,160
on the longest film and whiskey
episode in history, I am Bob

1754
01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:04,160
Book I.
Didn't even think about this

1755
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:06,320
this this.
I think our Gone with the Wind

1756
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:08,440
episode was like an hour and 35
minutes.

1757
01:42:08,440 --> 01:42:09,600
Yeah, dude, this is the longest
one.

1758
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:13,960
And nailed it.
I'm Brad G and.

1759
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:43,520
We'll see you next time.
This is.

1760
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:48,600
The Film and Whiskey podcast,
dude, we said that in such

1761
01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:51,000
unison that I couldn't tell you
we're talking for a minute.

1762
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:53,240
That was.
That's so good.

1763
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:57,440
That is the last bit of unison
we're going to have on this

1764
01:42:57,480 --> 01:43:01,280
episode.
That's true.