Oppenheimer / Old Fitzgerald Bottled in Bond Bourbon feat. Bilge Ebiri

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In 2023, director Sir
Christopher Nolan and star

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Killian Murphy gave the world a
chilling look at the

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conflagration of a world at war.
In 2024 we try a whiskey from

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2023.
The film is Oppenheimer.

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The whiskey is Old Fitzgerald
Bottled and Bond Fall 2023

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release.
And we'll review them both.

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This is.
The.

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Film and whiskey.
Podcast

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Welcome to the Film and Whiskey
podcast, where each week we

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review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

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I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad.

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G.
And welcome to Season 9.

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Of the film and whiskey.
Podcast we freaking did.

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It Brad, dude, I am so excited
for this season that like we

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have so many incredible movies
on the docket that and we are

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just starting off with what are
the best movies I think I've

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seen in a long, long time.
I'm really going to resist the

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urge to call this movie a banger
because that seems inappropriate

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given the subject matter of the
film.

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So I'm just going to, I'm just
going to continually refer to it

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as like a modern classic, which
fits perfectly with the theme of

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this season because what we're
doing this season is we're

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looking at films released in the
last 20 years.

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So we're going to go 2005 to
2024 and we're asking question,

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does this movie belong in the
21st century Canon?

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Now, Brad, we've done I think 60
something movies over the course

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of our podcast from this time
span already.

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So if your favorite film is not
included in this list, either we

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just don't care and don't want
to talk about it or we already

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have.
We've done the Social Network,

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we've done Brokeback Mountain,
we have not done one that I'm

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really looking forward to David
Fincher's Zodiac, which will get

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a hearty yes from me.
On to that question, Brad.

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As you look through the list of
films for this year, this

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season, aside from Oppenheimer
obviously, what are you most

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looking forward to watching for
the first time?

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Man, I am really excited about
Godzilla -1 that one has been

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hyped up for me quite a bit.
Whiplash, I I think might be my

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season winner.
Just an incredible, incredible

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film.
And then there's a few movies

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that I'm excited for people to
see that, you know, they might

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not have seen Past lives.
I know that's your pick, but I,

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I also like that movie a lot.
The Holdovers, incredible movie

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that more people need to see.
So yeah, I, I think there's a

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lot of great movies and one I,
I'm sure nobody's ever heard of.

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We're finishing the season with
John Wick.

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It's a it's kind of a little
indie classic that that not many

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people know about.
So joining us today to talk

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about Oppenheimer, I, I, I
wanted to bury the lead a little

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bit, but I can't because I
realized I can't go any further

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talking about the film
Oppenheimer without mentioning

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the man on the other end of the
line here.

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It's our friend and I believe
third time guest now, Bilga

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Ibiri.
And I have to say, like we're

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talking about modern classic in
films, but like if you could

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embody a modern classic in a
person, I think it's Bilga

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Ibiri.
Bilga, we've built you up, now

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you got to deliver, man.
How are you doing tonight?

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I'm good.
I don't know what else to say.

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How do I, how do I follow that
up?

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A modern classic?
I I feel I don't feel modern

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these days.
So so maybe you're accurate.

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I don't know if I feel like a
classic, like one of those cars

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that's falling apart.
But thank you for that.

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Wow, that's very that's very
sweet of you guys.

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And yes, it is my third time.
I'm very excited to talk about

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this movie.
I was very excited to get the

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e-mail when you guys were like,
Hey, this is our our subject and

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these are the movies.
And I saw and there was there

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were a lot of movies on there.
And I think initially you were

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like, just put your name next to
1 and I sent you guys like a

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list of seven.
And, and a lot of, I mean, a lot

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of films I really love are on
that list of films you're

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planning on talking about.
And then I looked at and I was

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like, like, who am I kidding?
I'm going to do.

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Well, I've got to needle you a
little bit about the subject

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here because like last time we
talked to you, we finished our

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recording and just chatted a
little bit off mic and you were

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telling us that you had just
seen Oppenheimer before pretty

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much anyone else.
You were telling us some some

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good details about people in the
screening room with you and

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their reactions to the end of
the film.

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And, and I hadn't, I didn't know
anything about the movie in

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terms of like, how's it going to
end appropriate.

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I would say those reactions in
retrospect.

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But then I start following your
articles coming out on Vulture.

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And I believe that you have
bylines on 12 different articles

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about the movie Oppenheimer on
the Vulture website now.

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So like, quite literally, you
are the subject matter expert on

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the film Oppenheimer.
It's like Chris Nolan and then

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you.
And so I'm, I'm very grateful

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that in lieu of Nolan, we got we
got you today.

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In lieu of Sir Christopher Nya.
So is he actually a Sir now?

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I don't I I think I missed that.
He's a Sir now.

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Is he a Sir?
Everything that I have read

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about him recently has him
titled Oh wow OK.

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I did.
I thought you were making that

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up, Brad.
That's cool.

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Yeah.
I, I, I mean, I, I've definitely

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written a lot about Oppenheimer.
I would say the person actually,

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I, I completely deferred to a, a
colleague of mine who's an even

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bigger Oppenheimer head than I
am, Jada Yuan, who I used to

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work with at New York magazine,
Vulture, who then moved to

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Washington Post.
She wrote a book like she wrote

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the making of book about
Oppenheimer, which by the way,

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is great.
But I, I will say one thing

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about how that happened.
I mean, obviously I, I, I, I saw

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Oppenheimer early and I was
working on a, a kind of profile

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process feat piece, making a
piece for the magazine.

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I was, I watched the film a, a
bunch of times for that.

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And I interviewed Nolan and I
interviewed all these people and

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I just kept interviewing people
like they were like, who do you,

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who do you want?
And I was like, well, I kind of

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want everybody because I didn't
quite know initially like what I

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was going to need to do.
Because part of the thing with

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Nolan is he's so in control of
everything on screen.

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And I don't mean that in like a
control freak way, although I'm

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sure he is a control freak.
Like he knows, he knows how

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stuff works.
He knows how editing works, he

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knows how sound works, he knows
how cinematography works.

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He understands like the chemical
process of film and stuff like

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that.
I mean, he has great people he

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works with.
You know, it's not to take

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anything away from, you know,
like his editors and his

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cinematographers.
But, but when you talk to them,

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they're very much like Chris
knows exactly what he's doing,

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you know, and, and, and they
love working with him that way

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because they don't have to like
reinvent the wheel every time.

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But because so much of what's on
screen is just coming directly

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from Nolan.
I, I wasn't sure who I needed to

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talk to.
So I kind of talked to

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everybody.
And then the, the freaking

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strikes happened.
Like, because if you remember,

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the strikes happened like a,
like, I mean, strikes are

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announced like a week before the
film is set to come out.

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I mean, there's the the the
Writers Guild strike is, you

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know, what was happening, but
you know, the SAG strike

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happens.
And as a result, suddenly all

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these actors that I talked to
stopped doing press.

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And at that point I kind of went
to my editors and I said, well,

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you know, I have all these.
Q And as with these people, why

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don't we like run these And and,
you know, we had to go to the

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actors publicists and get
permission and stuff like that.

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But that's sort of why it became
this thing where like suddenly

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there were all these interviews
that I've done.

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They were all meant for like one
piece and they kind of became

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this whole other thing.
And then, of course, I I did do

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a separate piece talking about
the ending of the film where

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there was a lot of stuff for my
interview with no one that I

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wanted to use and that I wanted
to kind of get into.

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And then later I did a whole
thing on like the IMAX of it

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all.
There was so much, like I talked

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to Nolan quite a bit and there
was so much great stuff in there

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that I couldn't fit into the
original piece that I was like,

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I I just want to turn this into
another article.

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And luckily the movie was such a
hit and it was in theaters for

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so long that, you know, usually
you don't get that opportunity.

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But like when it's like month
4:00 and you're like, hey, I got

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another idea for another article
you can do from this other

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interview I did.
It's good.

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It works out.
Yeah, and, and it's the type of

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content that leads to, you know,
a book on Christopher Nolan at

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some point, I'm sure.
I'm, I'm sure Bilga likes being

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referred to as a, a content
mill.

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You know, that's, that's really
what he's going for in his job

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at Vulture.
But guys, let's get into talking

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about the movie itself.
Now.

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Bilga saw this movie in his
words a bunch of times in prep

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for the articles.
I mean, roughly how many times

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are we talking now, Bilga?
I think I, I in total since it

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came out, I've seen the movie I
think like 14 times at the time.

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I mean, a lot of it was for that
piece.

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So I, I saw it four times over
the course of a month as I was

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working on my piece because
there was, there was specific

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stuff I was, I wanted to go back
and revisit it for.

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And of course, you know, I'm not
going to give you a Screener of

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Oppenheimer, you know, so, so it
was kind of like, well, you got

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to come into the city and you
got to go, we're screening it in

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IMAX.
So you got to go see it here.

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And of course they were keeping
it so under wraps that I would

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go to these screens and it would
be like me and like one other

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person, you know, like, like all
my critic friends were like,

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gosh, when the hell are they
going to show Oppenheimer?

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Like they, you know, is this
movie terrible?

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Like they're not, they're not
screening it.

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They're keeping it under wraps.
And I was like, but yeah, it was

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weird.
I mean, they were being very

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secretive about it.
I mean, I guess it worked out

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because the film obviously, you
know, opened huge.

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And something similar happened
with Barbie, which was also kept

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from critics.
You know, usually when a film is

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kept that secret.
People, it's not a good thing.

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Yeah, right.
There's there's a reason.

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Yeah, and for one bright,
shining moment in July of 2023,

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the movies that were being kept
from critics were not disasters.

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They were actually quite
wonderful.

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So Bill has seen it 14 times,
Brad.

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I saw it in theaters five times.
And I watched what?

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To say go ahead Bill, that's 42
hours of your life.

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How many episodes, how many
seasons of a Real Housewives

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thing does that?
Because because, you know, it's

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like people say, oh, how can you
watch a movie that many times?

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And I'm always like, well, you
know, you watch the worst

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fucking TV once, and that's
about the same amount of time

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I'd rather be watching.
Yeah.

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No, I, I that was not a
derogatory statement.

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It was more of a it.
Was more kind of because I've

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had this response to.
People.

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Sure, sure.
You.

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Watch it this many times and I'm
like.

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You know, 'cause it's.
Not.

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That's, I mean like there really
doesn't need to be more

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explanation than that.
Yeah, I was going to say there

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are many things you could waste
42 hours on.

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I don't think Oppenheimer is one
of those things.

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Well, I am.
We're in the rare position of me

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being beat out by a guest in
terms of number of times seeing

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it.
I saw it in theaters five times,

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including once in IMAX and once
in 70mm, which what I got to be

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honest, man, the 70 mil print
that I got it, it must have been

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struck from multiple 70 mil
prints.

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Not, not a great experience.
Not worth the additional $14.00

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or whatever it was I paid.
So that was a huge bummer.

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But aside from that, a very
rewarding experience.

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Brad, this was my sixth time
seeing the movie for this

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00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,440
podcast, and I believe this is
your second time, right?

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00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,480
Yeah, it is my second time and I
would actually be curious now

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00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,400
that we have an actual expert on
the show, not just Bob.

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So many people when movies like
this come out, they talk about,

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you know, you can see this at
like what, 3-4 different like

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quality levels at different
theaters.

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Bilga having seen it 14 times, I
would imagine having seen it at

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all the different levels you can
watch it at what?

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Like what is your take on the
varying levels of, of cinematic

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quality?
Like when Dune 2 came out, I had

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a lot of friends talking about
this.

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Like, yeah, I saw it in the
Dolby plus whatever.

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And I also, I also saw an IMAX
and, and regular and, and, and

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00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,760
it just feels like there's a lot
of confusion in, in those realms

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00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,320
on if, if there's actually
higher quality because what Bob

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00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,080
just said, like his print might
not have been the best print.

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00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,680
And so his IMAX experience
wasn't great.

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00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,720
Yeah, it really does in so many
cases depend on the theater

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00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:20,080
itself for for Oppenheimer, for
me, IMAX 70mm was the way to go.

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00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:25,000
So IMAX, you know, 15 perf, I
guess it's called, and that's

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00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,440
basically IMAX film.
And then the film, you know, and

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it was shot on IMAX.
I remember the vast majority of

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the movie was shot on IMAX film.
So you're really, and it was

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finished on film.
So you're really kind of

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00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:44,640
watching it's native, it's
native format in, in IMAX film.

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00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,280
And in fact, part of the reason
why, I mean, after a certain

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00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,640
point, you know, I remember
opening weekend, I went and saw

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it in 35mm at my local theater
in Brooklyn, which was the

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00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,320
Nighthawk.
But I also had, I wanted to see

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00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:05,520
it again in 70mm at Alamo
Drafthouse just to see what what

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00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,280
the vibe was like at that point.
I felt so weirdly invested in

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the movie.
I was just like, and also

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00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,880
because I just been in so many
screens where I was like just

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00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,600
me.
That was kind of like, I think

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00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,520
people are going to like this
movie, but I kind of don't know

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00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,280
at this point.
I've been like Oppenheimer

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00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,040
pilled, but I have no idea what
like the average person is going

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00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,720
to think of this movie.
So I went like for that reason

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00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,320
alone.
So stuff like that happens.

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00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,400
It happens all the time.
I mean, that's the thing that

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00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,120
like as Nolan becomes more and
more of a he's not a Luddite.

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00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,840
He's obviously not a Luddite,
But as someone who is kind of

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00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,840
advocating for celluloid and
making a point of releasing his

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00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:49,360
films on celluloid and because
his films are huge releases,

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00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,960
wide releases.
In some cases, Nighthawk wasn't

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00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,080
one of those cases, because
Nighthawk is a theater that

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00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,680
shows 35 all the time.
But, but in a lot of cases you

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00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,520
have movie theaters that have
just been doing DCPS for years

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00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,640
suddenly have to deal with the
film print and they have to like

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00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:07,360
get a projectionist who can deal
with it.

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00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,120
And, you know, I, I assume like
pull out a old projector from,

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00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,840
from, from storage or whatever.
I don't know how exactly it

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00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,480
works, But you know, you run
into problems because you know,

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00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,880
that they're not as well versed
in, in how to deal with it.

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00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,360
So that's a thing that, you
know, I think, I mean, it

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00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,840
happened to me when I saw
Interstellar when it first came

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00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,120
out.
You know, it's like saw it

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00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,760
opening weekend in I think 35mm
and it was just like, I don't

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00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,720
even know where it was, but
there was something was wrong

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00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,800
with the projection, you know,
and it was like, you know, at a

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00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,000
regal, you know.
Yeah, man, I.

287
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,400
Had a very similar experience
this summer with the Inside out

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00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,360
two.
Spoiler alert, drive in movie

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00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,000
theater audio not not the best
quality.

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00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,640
So yes, I, I feel your pain.
I do wonder what it's like for

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00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,280
Brad, though, to hear you and I
talk about our preferred format

292
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,320
of what type of film and
projection this should be on

293
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,360
when like my guy is definitely
watching this movie on a laptop

294
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,680
or his phone.
So we, we will see how this

295
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,840
works for Brad, but that means
that it's time for us to get

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00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,160
into our first real segment of
today, which is called Brad

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00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,320
explains Brad's going to.
Give us the movie plots with

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00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,320
only 60 seconds taken on the
clock.

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00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,800
So let's go ahead and do your
take with this little segment

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00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,000
that we call, Brad explains.
Brad Explains is the part of the

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00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,240
podcast where Brad breaks down
the plot of the movie that he

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00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,800
has just seen, often for the
first time.

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00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,160
This is Brad's second time with
Oppenheimer and Brad.

304
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:43,480
While on paper I think you can
kind of delineate the plot very

305
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,760
easily, this is one of those
rare instances where the movie

306
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,400
is just a hell of a lot more
complicated than the the short

307
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,640
little synopsis can be.
Yeah, 100%.

308
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,960
As with any Christopher Nolan
film, there are multiple

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00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,720
timelines being explored
throughout the film, and that

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00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,920
makes it really easy to
describe.

311
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,119
Just super simple,
straightforward.

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00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,440
Well, you are in the enviable
position of having to do that in

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00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,920
one minute or less.
Folks, if you have not yet seen

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00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,760
Oppenheimer, I cannot suggest
strongly enough that you press

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00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,400
pause here, go watch this three
hour epic of a film and then

316
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,720
come back and join us for the
rest of the episode.

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00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,839
Brad, one minute on the clock
and go.

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00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,440
Oppenheimer is a film that
follows J Robert Oppenheimer as

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00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,480
he moves throughout his life as
a physicist.

320
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,840
It follows him to Europe and
back to the US as he starts a

321
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:41,120
program at Berkeley and as World
War 2 breaks out he is asked to

322
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,400
head up the Los Alamos Manhattan
Project program to create the

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00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:53,880
nuclear weapon, the atomic bomb.
It also follows him through a

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00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:59,160
trial of sorts as his security
clearance is revoked because of

325
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,400
suspected communist activities,
as well as following a man named

326
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,480
Strauss who is trying to be
confirmed to the cabinet of

327
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:14,960
Eisenhower, I believe, and the
relationships in which have

328
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,120
ruined his opportunities.
Well done, you came in like 5

329
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,320
seconds under time too.
That's that's all I needed,

330
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,640
ma'am.
All right, here's my first

331
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,640
question for both of you guys
and Brad, I'll throw it to you

332
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,800
first.
If you had to put a genre on

333
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,960
this movie, where does this
movie fall?

334
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,200
Because I've heard a lot of
people take a stab at it.

335
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,440
And personally, I don't, I don't
like biopic for this movie.

336
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,960
I don't think that works at all.
You know, I, I've seen people in

337
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,360
print say just historical drama.
I've seen espionage thriller,

338
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:56,040
I've seen conspiracy thriller.
But like, where are you falling

339
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,920
on Oppenheimer?
Oh, that's, that's a tough one.

340
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:04,600
I part of me would want to call
it like a moral quandary drama

341
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,240
where the the essence of the
film is asking this question

342
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,720
like, have we destroyed the
world by trying to save the

343
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,000
world?
So I, I think that I don't know

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00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,760
if that's a genre Bill that you
can correct me if I'm wrong, but

345
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,960
moral quandary drama feels
accurate.

346
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,120
I do think that historical drama
makes a lot of sense as well.

347
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,680
Dramatized biopic might be a
good description.

348
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,800
It's a really good question.
In some ways I want to say it's

349
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,960
a proud biopic.
You know, like, it's like biopic

350
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,840
is biopic is a word.
It's become a dirty word, you

351
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,840
know, and it's so funny.
And when you're a critic, very

352
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,560
often you'll get emails from
publicists in advance of a film

353
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,360
saying, you know, please don't
call our movie a biopic.

354
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:00,760
It is a, you know, historical
drama or is a biographical drama

355
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,200
or.
I remember this was a whole

356
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,080
thing with Maestro where some
people got upset if you called

357
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,920
it a biopic.
It was pretty clear that it was

358
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,960
because Bradley Cooper was
getting upset that people are

359
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,840
calling it a biopic.
Like I don't think the publicist

360
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,680
really cared that much.
But I think, I mean, there's so

361
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,240
many, there's so many ideas in
Oppenheimer that it it really

362
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,400
does fit so many of those like
sub genres.

363
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,280
I think political thriller is a
good one and I think it's

364
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,240
actually one of those one of
those situations where political

365
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,960
to call it a political thriller
is almost a spoiler.

366
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,480
You know, because it does become
and and towards the end really

367
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,320
becomes about, you know, this
dynamic between him and straws

368
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,840
and how that how that fed into
what happened to Oppenheimer

369
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:51,840
sort of in the back end of his
career.

370
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,880
And and also makes the case that
that's in part because he was

371
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,360
silenced and because he was
sidelined, we never really did

372
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,440
manage to have a proper
conversation about nuclear,

373
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,920
nuclear, nuclear weapons.
So, so, you know, political

374
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,480
thriller works.
You could also say it's kind of

375
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,600
a prequel to every post
apocalyptic movie ever made

376
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,160
because it the movie does
basically end with the the end

377
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,960
of the world.
So, you know, so it's kind of a

378
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,960
science fiction movie in that
sense too, right.

379
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,120
In so many ways, it's it's so
Nolan.

380
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,800
I mean, he's a real artist and
and someone who is very well

381
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,360
versed in film history and
really thinks of himself as

382
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,080
making serious movies, which he
does.

383
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,760
But then he'll take these, you
know, I mean, we take the

384
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,000
superhero movie and turn it into
something very much in line with

385
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,840
his sensibility, which of course
then turned into a thing where

386
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,400
everybody was trying to make
movies like him, superhero

387
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,360
movies like him, and they
couldn't because the sensibility

388
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,280
wasn't actually there.
Like, he came to it, I think

389
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,880
very sincerely.
But then other people came to

390
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,880
it, often very cynically in an
in an effort to ape what he had

391
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,640
done.
And, you know, as a result, what

392
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,240
they did was kind of shallow.
Whereas a film, I think like

393
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,000
Batman Begins or The Dark Knight
or for that matter, the The Dark

394
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,120
Knight Rises are movies that are
you can watch endlessly and find

395
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,280
new things in them and that are
full of ideas.

396
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,200
And I think in that sense, they
they reflect their creator.

397
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,840
And Oppenheimer is kind of like
that, you know, he every moment

398
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:29,080
of this movie is just filled
with details and ideas and he's

399
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,640
he's following through on all
these different things.

400
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,400
I mean, it feels like a fairly
straightforward historical

401
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,880
drama, even with the sort of
jumping back and forth in time.

402
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,000
But like the stuff that's
happening aesthetically, the

403
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,160
stuff that's happening
sonically, the stuff that's

404
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,800
happening thematically, all
these things are running

405
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,920
throughout the film.
And that's also one of the

406
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,520
reasons why it's such a joy to
watch multiple times, because

407
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,640
every time I watch it, I, I
notice something new, you know,

408
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,960
every time I watch it.
And even now, like my 14th

409
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,560
viewing, I, I, I, I don't
remember what it was, you know,

410
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,720
my, my 14th viewing, but there
was something that I caught for

411
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,080
the first time.
Even then I was like, Hey, I

412
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,120
totally didn't realize they were
also doing this, you know, So

413
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,040
it's, it's great to be able to
do that.

414
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,600
Yeah, 100%.
And I asked this question with

415
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,920
somewhat ulterior motives
because this is kind of my

416
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,760
thesis statement on Oppenheimer
and I want you guys to help me

417
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,360
just kind of lie on your
therapist chair today and figure

418
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,840
out I have wrestled with this
movie for so long, a movie that

419
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,000
I love.
Let me, you know, be clear here

420
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,120
and I'll just kind of spoil
where I'm at score wise.

421
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:39,200
Now, is this movie a 9 1/2 or
A10?

422
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,680
And that is like, that's the
hardest question to answer for

423
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,080
me because the first time I saw
the film, I was like, wow, this

424
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:53,400
is a monumental work in the
history of of cinema that I am

425
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,960
99% sure is going to win the the
Oscar.

426
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,680
And also kind of weirdly messy
or seemingly so.

427
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,240
And with each subsequent
viewing, it unlocked for me what

428
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,880
Nolan's intentions were with
including every single

429
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,600
character, every line, every
scene that didn't necessarily

430
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,440
seem like it seemed maybe
tangentially related to what he

431
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,240
was trying to say.
And I've arrived at a place now

432
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,320
where for me, you know, the
first hour is the closest thing

433
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,840
to a traditional biopic.
It's just his young life, him

434
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,400
meeting Kitty and all these
other things.

435
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,680
The third hour of the film is
really the lens through which to

436
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,200
view everything else in the
film.

437
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:42,480
Everything about his adulterous
nature, his own hubris, his

438
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,080
inability to recognize the
malicious intent in others.

439
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,440
Everything from that first hour
that seems kind of messy is

440
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,520
there because of the third hour,
and it makes a lot more sense.

441
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,800
But Brad, it kind of reminds me
of the conversation we had a

442
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,120
couple years ago with our David
Lean miniseries we did, where we

443
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,080
talked about, you know, Lawrence
of Arabia is the movie that Lean

444
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,600
is always going to be remembered
for.

445
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,560
But it's a much more prickly,
kind of not shaggy, not messy

446
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,160
movie, But he's such a
complicated figure, and you can

447
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,560
never really get your arms
around Lawrence.

448
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,720
Bridge of the River Kwai is a
movie that is like so

449
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,600
streamlined and so perfectly
executed that I, I almost would

450
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,520
recommend that movie to more
people than Lawrence of Arabia.

451
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,880
And I feel like kind of the same
way about Oppenheimer.

452
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,920
He's this complicated figure and
the movie is built around him in

453
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,280
such a way that you can never
quite get your arms all the way

454
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,120
around it.
I don't know.

455
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,080
Does that make sense guys?
Yeah, 100%.

456
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:48,400
The the depiction of
Oppenheimer, like, it's, it

457
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,880
might sound silly, but the IT
feels like they're trying to

458
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,600
portray him as this enigma
wrapped in a mystery, you know

459
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,440
what I mean?
Like, like, that is the

460
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,880
portrayal that you get
throughout the film of him, that

461
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,800
he's always measuring every
thought, every word, never

462
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,720
letting anyone in.
And it's not until later in the

463
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,840
movie that you finally see a few
moments of candor.

464
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,160
And the two that I'm thinking of
happen, I think both in the

465
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,560
hallway of the security
clearance trial.

466
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,480
That's not a trial.
And, and, and it's when he talks

467
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,200
about he and Kitty's
relationship, like that's the

468
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,640
one of the very few moments
where I feel like you are seeing

469
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,720
the real J Robert Oppenheimer.
And then the second moment and

470
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,320
this one, I I especially want to
hear your guys's thoughts on.

471
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:43,080
I was so fascinated by the
moment where he just casually is

472
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,960
like, yeah, and, and he didn't
die of a broken heart because he

473
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,200
never found out that his wife
was cheating on him with me.

474
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,840
And the way Killian Murphy
plays, that is different than

475
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,760
every single facial expression
he has for the rest of the film.

476
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,480
And for some reason, that just
stood out to me so deeply

477
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,560
because it feels like one of the
few times where, once again, the

478
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,560
character is being honest about
who he really is.

479
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,840
First of all, Bob, I think
you're absolutely right in this,

480
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,040
but I just wanted to circle back
to something you said which

481
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,280
which sounds tangential, but it
isn't.

482
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,360
You mentioned Lawrence of Arabia
and and I totally agree about

483
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:30,920
what you said about Lawrence of
Arabia.

484
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,240
One thing that when I, several
years ago, I, I, I, I, I did a

485
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,480
lot of research at the Citizen
Kane, a movie people are

486
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,320
familiar with, but a movie about
what you can kind of spend your

487
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,040
whole life doing research.
But I had done a piece on

488
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,160
Citizen Kane, Citizen Kane's
journey through sort of the, the

489
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,240
20th century Canon and how it
became anointed as like the

490
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,440
greatest movie ever made and why
it sort of stayed there for such

491
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,280
a long time.
And then I wound up like the,

492
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,040
the folks at Criterion had seen
that piece and they asked me to

493
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,560
do the essay for the 4K release
of, for, of Citizen Kane.

494
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,080
So I did kind of took some of
those ideas and expanded them

495
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,000
into kind of a bigger piece.
But one of the things I, I did,

496
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,520
which was really fun was to go
back and look at the sight and

497
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,200
sound surveys, which started in
1952 and, you know, kind of

498
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,720
repeated every 10 years and
1952.

499
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,120
And of course, the sight and
sound survey is where Citizen

500
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,560
Kane became, quote UN quote, the
greatest movie ever made and

501
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,400
sort of held that title and, and
wound up so, you know, being

502
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,760
mentioned in all these other
lists.

503
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,240
But it was kind of there where
it first really emerged as, as,

504
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,560
as what it was.
It was in 1962 when it when it

505
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,560
topped the list in 1952, it was
nowhere to be found on the list,

506
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,840
right?
It was not in the top 10 or

507
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,880
anything like that.
It was, you know, the film had

508
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,640
obviously it had come out, you
know, 11 years earlier.

509
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,960
But Sight and Sound at the time
published some of the individual

510
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,720
lists.
I mean, it later would publish

511
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,760
all the individual lists, but in
the in the 1952 edition, it

512
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,360
actually published some of the
individual lists and a lot of

513
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,760
them were were directors.
And one of the only people who

514
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,360
cited Citizen Kane on their top
ten list, Sight and sound top

515
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,520
ten list was David Lean.
And Citizen Kane is famously a

516
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,240
movie about a subject about
which nobody really knows any

517
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,480
like you're watching it.
I mean, it's almost Cubist.

518
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,200
Like you're watching him.
Everybody kind of has a

519
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,920
different take on who Charles
Foster Kane is.

520
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,160
And by the end of the film, you
still don't really know like it

521
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,120
it like it ends on Rose Rosebud
the sled.

522
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,960
But it's famously kind of a very
postmodern like here's the

523
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,840
explanation.
But wait, that's not really an

524
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,640
explanation.
Like it makes you think, well,

525
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,200
wait, Rosebud really the sled.
And it's like it makes you kind

526
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,640
of go back over the movie and
you realize Wells has kind of

527
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,200
pulled the rug out from under,
under your feet.

528
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:07,720
And it's you know, it's it's,
it's a film that purports to

529
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,560
explain all this stuff.
But ultimately the the figure at

530
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,120
at its center remains an enigma.
And and I think, and I and I

531
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,240
watch Lawrence of Arabia and I'm
like, this is a movie made by

532
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,480
someone who recognizes that
Susan Kane is one of the

533
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,760
greatest movies ever, you know,
And I think no one.

534
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,640
And Oppenheimer is kind of in
that tradition, right?

535
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,840
Because it is in so many ways,
even though we're watching it

536
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,920
from his perspective, so much of
the film is about how other

537
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,200
people see him and his
interactions with these people

538
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,880
and how each of them sort of
confronts him in different ways

539
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,960
and forces him in different
ways.

540
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,040
And, and he's, you know, in so
many ways, he's so malleable and

541
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,280
he never really reveals what
he's thinking except in certain

542
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,320
moments.
In that, that moment, Brad, that

543
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,080
you you highlighted sort of
towards the end of the film

544
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,560
where they're in the hallway and
Kitty comes to testify on his

545
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,480
behalf.
And the music suddenly, you

546
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,000
know, the music has been so like
atonal violins, sort of violins

547
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,280
playing really, really fast and
kind of going crazy.

548
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,880
And suddenly there's this
beautiful little, almost like a

549
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,880
violin duet, very melodious.
And suddenly for, for one brief

550
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,760
moment, everything is in unison.
As he's saying.

551
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,480
I mean, I can't remember the
exact lines.

552
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,240
I I should?
Oh, it's it's such a great line

553
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,520
only teenagers and fools presume
to know about another person's

554
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,880
relationship, essentially.
What a great lie.

555
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,160
Yeah.
And he says Kitty and I have

556
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,560
been through, you know,
basically the fires of hell

557
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,880
together and and it's a really
great moment.

558
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,120
And it is one of those moments.
I remember, I remember some of

559
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,040
my younger colleagues were were
complaining about that scene and

560
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,840
I was like, some of you haven't
been married for 20 years.

561
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:58,960
And it shows.
Yeah.

562
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,280
I was like, I was like, that
actually is that was the thing I

563
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,240
think that that last viewing of
the film where it really jumped

564
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,760
out at me.
I was like, wait, is this my

565
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,720
favorite scene in the movie now?
Like suddenly I was like

566
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,520
incredibly moved by that moment.
And yeah.

567
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,120
And it is it is one of those
moments where he kind of locks

568
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,920
in as a human.
Now, of course, what's really

569
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,440
going on or not, There are many
things that are going on.

570
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,640
But one of the things like, I
think one of the reasons why we

571
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,720
never really see him express his
true feelings is because he's

572
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,200
conflicted about like what he's
created.

573
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:42,200
And he's obviously mortified by
what, what's, you know, this,

574
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,040
this weapon that that he's
basically the father of.

575
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,800
I mean, everybody calls him
that, but he can't really he,

576
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,960
he's never, he never expresses
regret over what happened in

577
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,680
Hiroshima and Nagasaki or for
that matter, the legacy of what

578
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,200
he's created.
So the film sort of has to do

579
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,040
that for us, right?
The film has to sort of formally

580
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,160
embody that regret because he
never really says anything.

581
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,480
And that you know that that
final confrontation in the in

582
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,320
the conference room where you
know the the.

583
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,680
Moral scruples, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's

584
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,800
basically mimics what happens
during his speech after

585
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Hiroshima.
You know, we're flashing light

586
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,960
comes and, you know, and you got
the you got the meme of being

587
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,240
questioned, which is a great
meme, by the way, just such a

588
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,520
perfect meme.
But but really what's happening

589
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,960
there is he's being confronted.
I mean, those are not the

590
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,080
questions that that, that, that
that lawyer asked them.

591
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,400
Those are the questions he's
asking himself.

592
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Absolutely.
Well, and to your point too

593
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,320
about the character of Kitty,
it's not really revealed until

594
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,040
that final act of the film just
how perceptive she is into his

595
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,800
inner world.
And their very last interaction

596
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,920
in the film with dialogue is
when he comes home basically

597
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,360
after losing his security
clearance.

598
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,320
She's Outback looking at the
house.

599
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,600
They're probably going to have
to give up.

600
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,760
She has tears in her eyes, and
she just wheels around and says,

601
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:16,120
did you think that if you let
them tar and feather you and

602
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,800
basically turn you into a
martyr, that the world would

603
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,040
forgive what you did?
That's not how it works.

604
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,040
And yet it cuts back to him.
And his tacit admission is like,

605
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,480
well, we'll see.
Like basically saying that's

606
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,639
exactly what I did because I am
so haunted by the actions that I

607
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:34,120
took.
Yeah.

608
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,440
The whole reason I brought this
up guys is that I, I really do

609
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,520
think that third hour received.
It was so funny to watch film

610
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,760
Twitter for like 2 months after
the movie came out, received so

611
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,520
much shit from people as like
the movie was over at the two

612
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,159
hour mark.
The movie dragged on.

613
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:52,679
That third hour is so
unnecessary.

614
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,639
And then slowly but but surely
people were like, Oh no, it's

615
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,880
not only just the key to the
whole movie, it's actually the

616
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,800
best hour of the whole movie
too.

617
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,160
And when you start to understand
that his relationship with the

618
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,720
Florence Pew character, his, you
know, associations with his own

619
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:16,480
party and every little
peccadillo that he had, it comes

620
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,040
back around in the third act.
Because from the very beginning,

621
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,520
it's revealed that the United
States government was aware of

622
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,800
all these things.
And we're pulling these levers

623
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,560
to keep him under their thumb.
I think, you know, for me, I've

624
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,200
always compared it to JFKI.
Know a lot of people compare it

625
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,400
to the film JFK.
I really do still think that's

626
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:41,440
the best comparison point for
this movie because it truly

627
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,400
focuses everything in on that
kind of conspiratorial aspect

628
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,240
and how honestly what blew me
away this time is how

629
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,720
deceptively simple the point of
the movie ends up being.

630
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,600
Like the name of the book this
movie is based on is American

631
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,440
Prometheus, and at the very
beginning of the film you get

632
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,800
the title card that talks about
Prometheus gave fire and then he

633
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,360
has a reward.
They chained him to a rock for

634
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,840
all eternity.
And then after you've seen the

635
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,880
movie like five times, you're
like, oh, that really is all

636
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,200
this movie's about.
I like you kind of go through

637
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,960
the bell curve of like, no, this
has to be more complicated

638
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,840
because it's a Christopher Nolan
movie and it is a very complex

639
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,480
movie in the way that it's
intricately put together.

640
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,840
But at the end of the day,
that's exactly what the movie's

641
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,680
about.
He he tells it to you up front

642
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,800
and then he shows you exactly
how they did it to him.

643
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,280
The the you, you're absolutely
right.

644
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,760
What is the exact wording of the
Prometheus the Prometheus intro

645
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,760
in the movie?
Do you have it in front of?

646
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:44,640
You.
I don't.

647
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,840
I don't.
But I, you know, I think it says

648
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,440
something like Prometheus stole
fire from the gods and gave it

649
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,080
to to man or something like
that.

650
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,000
Are you ready?
Prometheus stole fire from the

651
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,080
gods and gave it to man.
For this, he was chained to a

652
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:06,160
rock and tortured for eternity.
Note the Note the use of passive

653
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,520
tense.
It's the.

654
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,840
It's the.
It's the tense.

655
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,080
It's the, it's the special New
York Times tense, you know, when

656
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,520
talking about distasteful
things.

657
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,640
But in this case, I think what
it really is is for this.

658
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,080
He was chained.
We don't know who chained him.

659
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,440
And the truth is everybody
chained them.

660
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,800
And the truth is also he chained
himself, right?

661
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,920
I mean, in the case of this one,
but not Prometheus, the myth.

662
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,560
But in the case of in the case
of Oppenheimer, he is clearly

663
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,040
torturing himself.
I mean, he is tortured.

664
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,920
And throughout the film, we see
these, you know, these snippets

665
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,240
of, you know, these almost like
experimental scenes of sort of,

666
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,320
I mean, they start off in the
first part of the film as these

667
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,760
experimental little interludes
where we see kind of almost

668
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,680
depictions of the, the quantum
world and the subatomic world.

669
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,720
And these are things that
apparently Nolan knew right away

670
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,080
that he wanted to do these.
And he, you know, like the first

671
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,400
person he went to after his wife
with the script was his visual

672
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,560
effect supervisor.
And he was just like, go out and

673
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,280
create these for me.
And, and it's interesting to

674
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,080
watch how they develop over the
course of the movie because

675
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,400
they, you know, at first
they're, they're, they're

676
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,480
beautiful, they're fascinating.
They're kind of wonderful and,

677
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,920
and surreal and everything.
Over the course of the film,

678
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,120
though, those, they become less
abstract and more really about

679
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,600
destruction, right?
They become like ripples of of

680
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,280
explosions on maps and things
like that.

681
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:47,760
And so it becomes this more and
more destructive thing and it's

682
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,840
clear that it's it's tormenting
him and the great, you know,

683
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,920
that that great very final scene
of the film with him and

684
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,880
Einstein.
When we think about where that

685
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,200
fits in the timeline, I mean,
obviously that's a great way to

686
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,880
kind of end the movie.
But if you think about it, that

687
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,960
is happening many years earlier.
That's happening on the day he

688
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,640
met straws, right?
And So what it also says,

689
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,240
besides kind of being sort of
this like very scary and sad

690
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:17,240
note to end it on and to make us
think about what comes next,

691
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,800
what it's really saying is he
had this revelation years ago.

692
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,600
And he's really like, he's been
torturing himself or letting

693
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:31,600
other people torture him in part
because of a sense of penance

694
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,600
and a sense of shame and a sense
of guilt that he does not really

695
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,040
have the ability to really
properly express and eventually

696
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,680
doesn't have the platform to
express really if he wanted to.

697
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,360
Yeah, I think honestly, watching
at this time and seeing that

698
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,120
very final moment and realizing
where it falls in the timeline,

699
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,120
this is probably the closest
that Nolan has come to

700
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,240
replicating the timeline of
Memento in a movie.

701
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,080
I really do think, 'cause it's
kind of dead center in terms of

702
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:07,760
the time span of the film and.
He holds that back as his final

703
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,680
reveal for, I mean, obviously
for the impact of what's

704
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,320
haunting Oppenheimer.
But in addition to that, like,

705
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,920
it really helps Brad.
I think it really helps the RDJ

706
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,400
performance quite a bit because
by the end of the movie, he's

707
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,480
just like, it reminded me of our
conversation recently, Brad,

708
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,040
about the Ed Begley character in
12 Angry Men.

709
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,920
And when he's giving his final
like, you don't understand these

710
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,400
people and everyone just kind of
turns away from him.

711
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,960
Because by the end of the movie,
the the Alden Ehrenreich

712
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,280
character is just like I, I have
had it with everything you're

713
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,240
saying about this stupid
interaction with Albert

714
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,240
Einstein.
What if it wasn't even about

715
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,800
you?
And you realize that this man's

716
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:54,600
own ego and perception of a
slight is what set basically

717
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,560
ruined Oppenheimer's career and
life.

718
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,640
And what was actually being said
between them was something so

719
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,600
much more horrific, so much more
haunting, so much bigger than

720
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,000
anything that he could have
imagined.

721
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,160
But I love that he did kind of
save that as the final reveal.

722
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,920
It's something that obviously
has been implied by the movie

723
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,040
The whole time, but it it's the
John G revelation of the

724
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,120
Oppenheimer narrative.
It's amazing to me that that

725
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,720
people didn't like the last hour
of this movie.

726
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,440
I like, I didn't know that until
you said it, Bob, because the

727
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,560
first time I saw it and this
time around, I feel like that

728
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:39,120
last hour I I guess I am often a
person who tries to avoid the

729
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,680
Internet as much as possible,
and therefore I often.

730
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,040
Thanks, Bilga.
But what that means is I often

731
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,960
get to go into movies somewhat
blind.

732
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,200
And so for me, I I really didn't
know everything about the movie.

733
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,840
I knew Bilga, that you said
people left it crying.

734
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,640
So I figured it had some sort of
emotional depth to it, but I

735
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:05,760
didn't know if it was much more
than a exploration of the atomic

736
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,240
bomb and its creation and its
effect on the world.

737
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:15,040
So for me, we finished the two
hour Marks and I'm like, OK, we

738
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,640
have an hour left of this movie.
Where is Nolan taking me?

739
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,360
And to realize that the entire
first two hours is not just an

740
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,080
exploration of the creation of
the bomb, although it does

741
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,320
accomplish that.
It's really an exploration of

742
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:37,960
how two men look at the world
and the vast scope in which

743
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,960
Oppenheimer looks at the world
and, and the the layers of

744
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,280
humanity that he will be
affecting by his choices versus

745
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,720
the way that Strauss looks at
the world in such a narrow

746
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:54,760
minded personal mindset.
Like I, I, I don't know if this

747
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,440
is like super deep or not, but
for Oppenheimer, it feels like

748
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,600
he looks at the world through a
lens that sees every color of

749
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,000
the spectrum and Strauss just
views the world in black and

750
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,080
white.
Everything is about him or not

751
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,440
about him.
It either helps him or doesn't.

752
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,640
And so like, I like the third
hour of this movie completely

753
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,520
gives it all of the importance
and all of the weight and

754
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,040
gravitas that it needed.
Black and white, you say?

755
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,840
Who knew?
Guys, I think this is a perfect

756
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,600
place for us to press pause.
Brad and I are going to go try

757
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,960
some whiskey, and when we come
back, we should talk a little

758
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,040
bit about the performances in
this movie.

759
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,600
We've gone almost an hour now
without talking about Killian

760
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,200
Murphy or RDJ or any of these
phenomenal actors.

761
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,920
So Brad, let's go drink this Old
Fitzgerald and then we'll come

762
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,360
back and join Bilga.
What do you say?

763
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:55,000
Let's get to it.
All right, so today we are

764
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,760
checking out Old Fitzgerald
Bottled in Bond.

765
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,840
Brad, this is not the first time
we've had Old Fitzgerald

766
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,000
together.
If you recall, we had it on a

767
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,200
bonus episode a long time ago
with our friend Scott Sauer when

768
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,640
we went to visit his bar crafted
cocktail in Wadsworth.

769
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,600
OH, he was just pulling down
stuff for us to try.

770
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,000
I think we did an on air review
of that Old Fitzgerald, but

771
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,640
because it was a bonus episode,
we haven't really given it a

772
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,400
full review and it continues to
be a super popular whiskey.

773
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,360
Now, before I go any further
into my spiel about what this

774
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,880
whiskey is, do you even remember
drinking that Old Fitzgerald?

775
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:41,120
No, not at all, my friend.
So this is a semi annual release

776
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,680
from Heaven Hill.
It was an old brand that died

777
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,640
off and then they resurrected it
as a super premium brand, which

778
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,480
is really funny because it
didn't used to be a super

779
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,120
premium brand, but hey, that's
this is the world we live in

780
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,000
now.
The first couple releases of Old

781
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,680
Fitzgerald came out at like 10
years old, 17 years old and 19

782
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,680
years old and I don't know if
they just ran out of really well

783
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,120
aged stock, but this one clocks
in at 8 years old, Brad.

784
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,040
So they have dramatically
decreased the age statement on

785
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,040
this bad boy, not necessarily
the price point.

786
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:18,200
It still retails for $110 MSRP.
Fun fact, you cannot get it for

787
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:21,000
$110 MSRP.
Nope.

788
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,840
We're drinking the Fall 2023
release, not the 24 that just

789
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,000
came out because we are not on
Heaven Hills distribution list.

790
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,080
Heaven Hill.
Let's come on man, remedy this.

791
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,560
What are you doing?
We had to get this year old

792
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,480
sample from our friend Zach
Johnston.

793
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,040
But you know what?
I'm OK with that because as we

794
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,920
always say on film and whiskey,
we will give a brand one try

795
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,760
because the average consumer
will give a brand one try.

796
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,000
I shouldn't have to drink the
most recent version of this to

797
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,760
know if generally speaking, Old
Fitzgerald is good or bad.

798
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,840
Last thing I'll say about this
and then we can dive in Brad.

799
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:02,760
The mash bill is 68% corn, 20%
wheat, 12% malted barley, which

800
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,720
is the exact same mash bill that
is used by Luxe Row for the

801
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,640
Rebel line because they used to
source it from Heaven Hill.

802
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,400
So we are essentially drinking 8
year old Rebel bourbon here.

803
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,600
Let's see if it if it stacks up
to our opinion of Rebel as we

804
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,960
dive in, Brad.
Yeah, the the nose on this bad

805
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,280
boy.
Oh my gosh, dude.

806
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,640
It's like a fresh, freshly
opened cherry soda.

807
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,400
There's caramel, there's red
licorice, there's vanilla.

808
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,840
It takes on some really nice
almond notes near the back end.

809
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,160
Once I've given it a few noses.
This is a really nice nose.

810
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,720
I, I really like it a lot.
I'm going to give it an 8 out of

811
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,920
10.
You know what, I was at an 8 as

812
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,000
well, but I think I'm going to
come up on it after hearing your

813
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,080
nosing notes because this is
kind of like a choose your own

814
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,760
adventure novel.
Like I took the path of, oh,

815
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,080
there's something really bright
here.

816
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,280
Let's chase that rabbit trail.
And I got a really nice like

817
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,720
summer fruit bourbon.
I got a ton of Granny Smith

818
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:10,600
apple when I first poured this
out, like really tart green

819
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,720
apple.
I got some cinnamon stick in

820
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:15,840
there as well.
But then I, I got notes of Peach

821
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,320
and pear and things I don't
typically get on a bourbon.

822
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,200
And I was like, oh man, a nice
summary bourbon.

823
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,400
And then I heard everything you
said and I was like, oh, there

824
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,240
is almond on this.
This is wild.

825
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,640
So I think this is a much more
complex nose than even I

826
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,640
initially gravitated toward.
I'm going to give this an 8.5

827
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,040
out of 10 on the nose.
When you get into the palate, I

828
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,280
think that that cherry soda,
cherry cola sticks around.

829
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,640
It's very effervescent and
bubbly and there's tons of that

830
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,640
cherry flavor there.
The almond comes through really

831
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,920
strongly for me on the palate
and I think that it almost turns

832
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:58,160
into like this caramel Y peanut
brittle, little bit of nuttiness

833
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,320
there that I like a lot.
I'm going to come up from my

834
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,840
nose score and give it an 8 1/2
here.

835
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:05,160
You know what?
Yeah.

836
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,760
Surprisingly for me, it stayed
in that kind of brighter camp.

837
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,680
It reminds me of, like the
bourbon equivalent of an Irish

838
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,440
whiskey.
Tons of.

839
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,800
I get, like, lime zest on this.
I get a lot of Peach and pear,

840
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,840
which I already mentioned.
I think if there's anything

841
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,880
that's really going to Ding it
for me here, number one, it's

842
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,280
pretty thin on the mouthfeel.
Like this is not a very viscous

843
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,520
whiskey at all and at only 8
years old I don't think it's

844
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,800
over oaked.
But the way the oak presents

845
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,960
itself is kind of like when we
when we talk about like that

846
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,880
cigarette ash taste at the very
back of the pallet.

847
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,680
For me it turned that like not
just char but bitter ashy

848
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,880
flavor.
So it I'm going to knock it down

849
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:52,040
just to 7.5 on the balance on
the finish though, really

850
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,800
pleasant.
I think most of that bitterness

851
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,720
goes away.
It stays just enough to let you

852
00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:59,520
know that there is like a char
element there.

853
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,840
But I keep getting these nice
sweet summer fruit waves kind of

854
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,400
coming back up my palate.
It's really mouth watering

855
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,560
finish and it's medium to long
lasting.

856
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,400
I'll give it an 8 out of 10 on
the finish.

857
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,680
I think the finish is where this
loses some traction for me.

858
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,120
I think that the cherry
continues through, the almonds

859
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,920
are there.
It gets a little bit cinnamony

860
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,920
for me at the end.
But the issue is what you said,

861
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,120
Bob.
It is thin and it does not last

862
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,120
very long.
The, the, the really nice

863
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,480
flavors that we got earlier just
don't stick around for long

864
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,280
enough to for me to enjoy them.
So I, I think I'm going to drop

865
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,760
to a 7 1/2 on the finish and I'm
actually only going to give it a

866
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:47,760
7 on the balance.
I think that there's not enough

867
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,760
complexity here and it it's a
bit of an up and down

868
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:57,480
experience, albeit like in the
upper tier of what a whiskey can

869
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:58,880
do.
So I'm not saying that it's a

870
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,080
poorly made whiskey.
I'm just saying that I I wish

871
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,240
there was a little more going on
here.

872
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,640
Yeah, I'm also going to give it
a 7 on balance.

873
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:11,880
I think that it's weird
individually the categories are

874
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,120
at like a 7 1/2 or above.
But if you just kind of ask me,

875
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,160
like in general, how do you feel
about this whiskey?

876
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,120
It's good.
Like it's certainly not going to

877
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,880
get a very good value score for
me.

878
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,960
But even besides that, I think
most of the Rebel products we've

879
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,520
had are just generally tastier
than this one is.

880
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,880
And I think that it it can't
decide if it wants to be summary

881
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,640
or autumn autumnal.
It can't decide if it wants to

882
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,440
be like really heavily oaked or
really sweet.

883
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,920
And so it kind of does all of
those things OK, but none of

884
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,200
them really, really well.
So it's a 7 for me.

885
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,440
And that's where things get
really weird because the value

886
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:57,520
on this is interesting at $110,
MSRPI think this is like a six

887
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,440
out of 10 value.
But if you look for this

888
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,920
specific, what do you want to
call it vintage this, this

889
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,120
release, it's like $400.00 that
it's going for now.

890
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,840
Yeah.
And I was going to say, Bob, you

891
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,040
you can consider old fits bottle
and bond in the luxury realm.

892
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,400
Like the chances of you getting
it at 110 are astronomically

893
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,120
low.
And therefore you're going to

894
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,000
have to get on the secondary and
you're either going to have to

895
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,360
trade some of your premium
whiskeys to get it or just buy

896
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,000
it outright for a lot of money.
Not not that I'm saying we

897
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,560
should trade whiskey that's
illegal to it.

898
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,080
It's bad.
Now I will say though, in in its

899
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,040
defense, I don't think 400 is
the price point we should be

900
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,720
measuring it on because there's
been a year since this came out

901
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:45,520
for all those bottles to get
snatched up.

902
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,840
I do think it like, let's set it
at 200.

903
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,200
Let's say that you're going to
pay double of what MSRP is to

904
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,480
get your hands on this bottle
even at that price point.

905
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,840
Like there's just no way dude.
This is not worth $200.

906
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,560
Yeah, no, the like I said, we
kind of have the luxury category

907
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,000
for a reason.
Like if you're going to spend

908
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,960
200 plus dollars on a whiskey,
you ought to know what you're

909
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,400
getting into.
And frankly, this just does not

910
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,840
measure up to other luxury
expressions that we've had.

911
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,200
I'll give it a four out of 10.
Yeah, I'm going to give it a

912
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,480
three out of 10.
I like.

913
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,120
I just maybe I could have gotten
caught up in the hype on this a

914
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,480
year ago.
It's not happening today.

915
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,600
It's just not going to
everything.

916
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,920
I'll say it like this,
everything we've had in the last

917
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,080
few months from Bardstown
Bourbon Company which at MSRP is

918
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,640
priced at like 160 and there
really isn't a secondary market

919
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,280
on Bardstown stuff.
Everything we've tried from

920
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,920
Bardstown is better than this.
Fair.

921
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,400
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean,
this is this is really good.

922
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,040
You know, my, my final score is
coming to a 35 out of 50, which

923
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:59,120
means I was at a 31 out of 40
for just the flavor categories.

924
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,680
So I like don't get me wrong,
Old Fitz Bottled and Bond Fall

925
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,160
2023 release is a solid whiskey
that I enjoy drinking.

926
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,680
Is it one that I would pay this
much money for or pay for a pour

927
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,680
of at the bar?
Definitely not.

928
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,280
We picked this match up in part
because it it comes from the

929
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,320
year and general time of release
of our movie, so you could have

930
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,280
been enjoying a nice pour of
this if you snuck it into the

931
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,880
movie theater to watch
Oppenheimer.

932
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:29,880
I'm not saying I did that by any
stretch of the imagination.

933
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,640
We're just talking about all all
sorts of illicit activities.

934
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:38,160
Yeah, like you, Brad, I had it
at a 31 out of 40.

935
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,080
It is at a 34 out of 50 for me.
So we're coming to an average of

936
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:46,320
a 34.5 out of 50 or a 69 out of
100.

937
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,000
Nice.
I do not recommend this.

938
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,920
I think if you really if you
want to celebrate with a pour of

939
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:56,480
something nice, I understand the
impulse, but I would direct that

940
00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:00,920
impulse to a different bourbon.
Yeah, I, I think I'm with you,

941
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,240
Bob.
If you're able to get a pour of

942
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:08,680
it from a friend, like it's 100%
worth trying, but sure, spending

943
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,880
your own money on it.
Yeah, that's a tough one.

944
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,240
Yeah.
I just think it's set at a price

945
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:16,000
point where I I will never
really be able to justify it.

946
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,400
Good whiskey, not worth the
price.

947
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,080
Yep.
Brad, just like the atomic bomb,

948
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,040
honestly, you know, it wasn't
worth the cost.

949
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,360
That's what I'm saying.
What it there is a moral

950
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,240
quandary to drinking this
whiskey?

951
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,960
Yeah.
I mean, that's kind of unlike

952
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,440
the atomic program though.
Like there was no moral quandary

953
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,480
there, no.
No, no, no, no, not at all.

954
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,040
All right, man.
Let's get back into talking

955
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,320
about Oppenheimer.
What do you say?

956
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:50,120
Let's get to it.
All right, everybody.

957
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:55,360
That was Old Fitzgerald Bottled
and Bond 2023 fall release.

958
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:58,720
Bob, That is a long name for a
whiskey.

959
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:03,120
Yeah, absolutely, man.
In fact, it seems like it goes

960
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,560
pretty well with this three hour
long movie, which ironically

961
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,320
only has one word in the title,
Brad.

962
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,200
But I'm vamping at this point
because I'm I've been trying to

963
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,920
hold off on my excitement, but I
can do it no longer because it

964
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,560
is time for our favorite game
which we play every single week.

965
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,280
We call it 2 facts and a
falsehood, Brad.

966
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:28,880
Is going to try to stump your
ball 2 are right and what is

967
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:34,040
wrong 2 facts and a falsehood. 2
Facts and a Falsehood is the

968
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,360
part of the show where Brad
presents me with three items

969
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,200
about the making of this film,
one of which is a complete lie,

970
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,920
and I have to determine which
one that is.

971
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,560
The slate has been wiped clean,
Brad.

972
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,920
We're back to AA0 record right
now.

973
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,680
It's like that time of the year
every year where we hope and

974
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,000
pray that the Cleveland Browns
will not disappoint us.

975
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,800
And it's a glorious time.
Week 1 is always glorious.

976
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,120
Thus far, the Cleveland Browns
look like they're going to win

977
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,400
four or five games, so.
Not looking good, man.

978
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,400
Hopefully I don't follow their
path.

979
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:10,760
Now, folks, here's how this
works.

980
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,320
If we have a guest on the show,
which we do today, and if I

981
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,760
enlist that guest's help, which
spoiler alert, I'm going to do

982
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,840
because Bilga is an encyclopedia
of Oppenheimer at this point, if

983
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,560
we get the question correct, if
we pinpoint Brad's falsehood, I

984
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,120
get one win in the win column.
But if we get it incorrect, I am

985
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:37,120
served with two losses, so I am
doubly punished like an American

986
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,400
Prometheus.
So Bilga, please just be

987
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,400
prepared to to help tank my
record here if we get this

988
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,640
wrong.
Dude starting off O and two

989
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,800
would be tough it.
Really would, man.

990
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,720
All right, hit me with those two
facts and a falsehood, Brad.

991
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,120
Fact #1 Richard Feynman, played
by Jack Quaid, is shown playing

992
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,320
bongos multiple times throughout
the film.

993
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,400
In addition to his skill in
physics, Feynman was known as a

994
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:06,440
prolific bongo player.
Fact #2 Edward Teller, played by

995
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,880
Benny Safdie, went on to become
not just the father of the

996
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,320
hydrogen bomb, but also an
accomplished pianist and

997
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,920
composer, creating a well
regarded Piano Concerto in C

998
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:21,200
minor.
Fact #3 Killian Murphy, already

999
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,160
quite slender, had to lose a
significant amount of weight to

1000
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,120
better approximate the real J
Robert Oppenheimer's appearance.

1001
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,160
He also trained in horseback
riding to look more comfortable

1002
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:38,480
in the saddle while galloping.
OK, Bill, go, here's where I'm

1003
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,320
at #3 sounds the most plausible.
I mean, the the history of

1004
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,120
Killian Murphy's weight loss has
been well documented.

1005
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,320
I can assume that like the
horseback riding thing sounds

1006
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,360
like it's a feasible thing.
So that leaves one and two, and

1007
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,840
it just depends on how much I
know about physicists and their

1008
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:05,120
random hobbies.
I have no idea, man.

1009
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,840
If he had said like, hey, Jack
Quaid has a cool bongo fetish,

1010
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,320
I'd be like, yeah, man, that
sounds great, let's do that.

1011
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,080
But I don't know anything.
I mean, you know what I mean?

1012
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,600
Like, sure, Feynman being into
the bongos.

1013
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,440
I don't know, man.
I, I just, I have no guidance to

1014
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,280
give you.
You are really on your own here.

1015
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,960
I can tell you that the Feynman
bongo thing is correct.

1016
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,240
Yeah, the Feynman bongo thing is
correct.

1017
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,920
And the Killian Murphy, we heard
about his weight loss.

1018
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,680
I, I, I know that he was deadly
terrified of riding the horses

1019
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,320
in like the, the wide shots of
the movie.

1020
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,240
Emily Blunt told me that like
when they did the scenes on the

1021
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,200
horses, that he was just like,
really, really scared.

1022
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,440
So I'm assuming that he did take
some riding lessons.

1023
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,560
It's funny because I think I
mentioned this at some point,

1024
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:06,040
maybe on Twitter or something
and, and, and people were like,

1025
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,280
oh, but he rode horses on the TV
show.

1026
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,440
And I was like, I, I don't know,
I don't, I don't watch the TV

1027
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:16,760
show, but so I think the second
one, the second one, the thing,

1028
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:17,720
here's the thing about the
second one.

1029
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,280
It, it sounds good to me.
Like it sounds like it's a good

1030
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,320
one, Brad, If it is in fact the
second one, that's the the

1031
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,640
falsehood.
You did well with that one.

1032
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,600
Although I wonder if maybe you
just took something from one of

1033
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,880
the other physicists and, and,
and added it there.

1034
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,600
But it was well done.
If that is what in fact the

1035
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:40,960
right one because it sounds
right.

1036
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,360
It does actually sound right
because Teller was into a whole

1037
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,960
bunch of stuff.
So I get to be in the position

1038
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,520
today of being the kid in the
group project that did no work

1039
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,440
and hopefully gets a passing
grade.

1040
00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:00,560
It sounds like Bilga and by
proxy, me, right?

1041
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,080
Well, it sounds like we're
locking in #2 as our falsehood.

1042
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,240
So Brad, I will go ahead and put
all my eggs in that basket #2 is

1043
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,920
the falsehood.
Bob and Bilga, you guys are

1044
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:15,440
absolutely correct and the sting
of my loss doesn't even hurt

1045
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,680
that bad because I I'm with you.
I thought that was a well

1046
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,560
written falsehood.
I honestly, I was looking

1047
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,840
through the scientists and I, I
was, I was telling Bob before we

1048
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,840
started that I think this
viewing I was most fascinated by

1049
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,760
Edward Teller, like his
character, his relationship with

1050
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:36,400
Oppenheimer.
I was like, I want to see a

1051
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,560
whole nother movie about him.
And so I started looking him up

1052
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,720
and I saw that he was Hungarian.
And if I if I remember

1053
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:47,480
correctly, I could be completely
wrong, but for some reason I was

1054
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,320
thinking about the movie The
Pianist and I couldn't remember

1055
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:55,280
if the main character in that I,
I believe Adrian Brody plays

1056
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,120
him.
I couldn't remember if he's

1057
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,160
Hungarian or not, but it
something clicked in my brain

1058
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,600
and it made me think about piano
and that's where I was.

1059
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,600
Well, there you go.
Also, Chopin was Hungarian,

1060
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,600
right?
Yeah, exactly.

1061
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,240
Yep.
Well, Brad, nice job on the

1062
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,200
falsehood.
And and Brad, if I remember

1063
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,800
correctly, the my last two
times, I, I, I found ways to

1064
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,840
subtly insult your, your
questions, right, your

1065
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,560
falsehood.
Bill guy, I do not blame you at

1066
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,520
all.
If like when Bob insults me, I I

1067
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:31,280
take it personally, but you have
such a knowledge of film history

1068
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,200
and I like it's, it's fine.
I I'm just an average Joe making

1069
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,520
up lies about movies.
Yeah, he's gone from insulting

1070
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,680
you, Brad, to just kind of
patronizingly saying like, oh,

1071
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,760
you did a good job.
Yeah, and I'm, I'll, I'll.

1072
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,920
Turn that on the head.
Yeah, I'll, I'll gladly take

1073
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,040
that.
Now, before we get too far

1074
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,440
afield here, I just want to say
how cool is it, Brad, that we

1075
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:56,320
have someone on the show saying
Emily Blunt told me that Killian

1076
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,200
Murphy like, yeah, that's pretty
wild.

1077
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,200
First hand knowledge.
That's incredible.

1078
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,800
Dude, Emily Blunt, you said that
we were going to get into

1079
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:09,360
performances here.
Sure, the look of Venom that she

1080
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:14,120
gives Benny Safdie at the end of
this movie Oh yeah is freaking

1081
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,200
priceless.
And they do such a great job

1082
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,640
with the sort of like garish old
woman make up, you know, like a

1083
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,520
woman who's been dyeing her hair
well past the point where she

1084
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:26,440
should be dyeing it and the the
lip color.

1085
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,200
And oh man, it is.
It's everything about that look

1086
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,240
is perfect, guys.
Let's let this be the segue into

1087
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,960
talking about the cast here.
And let's start at the top with

1088
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,480
Killian Murphy, right?
He wins his Oscar in a manner

1089
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,360
that broke my heart a little bit
because I really wanted to see

1090
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,120
the like Katharine Hepburn,
Barbra Streisand tie with him

1091
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,360
and Giamatti this year.
I thought Giamatti was just

1092
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,320
freaking fantastic in the
holdovers, but it's an

1093
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,920
undeniable performance and
obviously the physical

1094
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:02,000
transformation is there, but his
ability to play the tortured

1095
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,440
interior character, it is not an
easy part to play.

1096
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,080
And obviously Nolan had him in
mind from the beginning, and I

1097
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,800
think you can see why.
Yeah, I, I was just going to

1098
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,000
say, I think for me it's his
eyes.

1099
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,840
Like like it reminds me of like
an Ian McKellen like type of

1100
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:25,720
talent to show so much with the
cameras like shoved up into your

1101
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:31,520
face and to to allow you into
the soul of the character.

1102
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,280
Oh my gosh, dude, what?
Like what?

1103
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,320
A performance?
Yeah, I mean it.

1104
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,040
It is a phenomenal performance.
I will say I did not think he

1105
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,200
would win an Oscar for this.
I figured if the film was

1106
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,080
successful, he would be
nominated.

1107
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,400
It it felt in some ways almost
too subtle for kind of the

1108
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,640
broader Academy to to you know,
they give awards for most

1109
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,720
acting, not best acting, right?
That's the common knock against

1110
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:59,800
them.
So I thought he'll be nominated,

1111
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:03,960
but but I, I can't see a
consensus forming around a

1112
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,200
performance like this because
it's so good, you know, like,

1113
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:12,960
because it's so layered and, and
so much of it is just about like

1114
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,280
just just what's behind his
eyes.

1115
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,160
So I was very delighted that he
won.

1116
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,760
But I also, I mean, look, these,
these, these people have not

1117
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,600
given Paul Giamatti.
These people did not nominate

1118
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,960
Paul Giamatti for sideways.
Like what is happening here?

1119
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:28,840
I mean, and that's not a movie
that was like somehow

1120
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,240
overlooked.
It was like a best picture

1121
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,200
nominee.
Like what are you going to?

1122
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,720
What?
What How?

1123
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,280
What, what?
What is Paul Giamatti's Revenant

1124
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,560
going to be?
How is he going to drag himself

1125
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,600
to an Oscar?
I know it's going to, it's going

1126
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,480
to be terrible.
It's going to, it's going to be

1127
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,640
terrible.
I mean, because Giamatti's been

1128
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:51,280
nominated for Cinderella Man,
right?

1129
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,440
And is that it?
Is that?

1130
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:56,280
I think that's it, I.
Think that's it?

1131
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,240
Right, it certainly wasn't a
lady in the water.

1132
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:00,800
I don't think he got a nod for
that one.

1133
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:02,760
Which I think is one of his
greatest performances.

1134
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:07,320
So you know, this is a, this is
a, this is a very pro lady in

1135
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:11,680
the water household.
But I, no, and I, I loved the

1136
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,600
holdovers was my #2 movie, like
Oppenheimer was my number one

1137
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,520
movie of the year.
Holdovers was my #2 movie.

1138
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,360
It was it was even ahead of
Ferrari.

1139
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,040
Loved Ferrari?
Although, you know, my choice

1140
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,400
for best the performance of the
year would have gone to Adam

1141
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:30,560
Driver and Ferrari.
But but Killian Murphy is, is

1142
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,720
fantastic.
The other thing though is you

1143
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,320
know, we, we, you talked about
it a little bit with, with

1144
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,680
Robert Downey previously.
No one has surrounded Killian

1145
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,000
Murphy with hams.
Yes.

1146
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,680
I mean, not just hams, not, not
not people who are just always

1147
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,880
hams, but like people giving
kind of very broad performances.

1148
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:55,000
I mean, Downey in the last act
of this movie is just, I mean,

1149
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,040
playing to the rafters.
Oh my.

1150
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,720
Gosh, and he's doing a great job
and he's and he, I mean, the

1151
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,840
film is built up to that point,
so it works.

1152
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,600
But also so is Emily Blunt.
I mean, Emily, But I remember a

1153
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,080
friend of mine or colleague
referred to her performance as

1154
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,640
camp.
And I was like, I'm not sure

1155
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:12,960
this counts as camp.
Like she's, she's going big,

1156
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:18,720
she's going broad, but she's
one, I mean, she's she doesn't

1157
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,440
have that much screen time.
So she's actually like making a

1158
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,080
meal of what she's got.
But also so many of these

1159
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,840
performances are going big
because Oppenheimer in some ways

1160
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,960
is so small.
Not small in a bad way, but like

1161
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:38,000
he's so understated and
submerged that everyone else

1162
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,200
around him is like constantly
just sort of bearing down on him

1163
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,400
all the time.
I mean, even Straws, who, you

1164
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,720
know, his interactions with
Oppenheimer aren't particularly

1165
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,520
dramatic.
But you know, when Straws is

1166
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,360
like doing that monologue in the
backroom, like he doesn't get

1167
01:06:54,360 --> 01:07:00,960
his, doesn't get the nomination.
He he's really talking to

1168
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,920
Oppenheimer, right?
Oppenheimer's not there, but

1169
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,600
he's really talking to
Oppenheimer almost through US.

1170
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:08,920
It's a it's a soliloquy at that
point.

1171
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:10,920
It's it's Shakespearean 100.
Percent.

1172
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,640
It absolutely is.
And and this this constant like

1173
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:17,360
everybody's bearing down on
Oppenheimer and in some ways

1174
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,160
like it, it mimics what happens
in real life, right?

1175
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,880
I mean, I, I have friends, I
have family members who kind of

1176
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,480
can be very cool and understated
sometimes and very calm in

1177
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,400
situations where I'm freaking
out and I freak out more because

1178
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,320
they're not freaking out, right?
Like that's kind of just a very

1179
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,040
human dynamic.
And the film sort of replicates

1180
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:39,640
that, especially with stuff like
Kitty, like Kitty's going crazy

1181
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,880
and in some ways is like an
alcoholic because her husband is

1182
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,280
completely unresponsive, even
though he's like just created

1183
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:50,160
the, you know, the, the machine
that will blow up the world.

1184
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:58,360
And he's like, I thought they'd
call, you know, So, yeah,

1185
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,360
anyway, but I think I, I think
like there is a strange little

1186
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,840
alchemy that's that's happening
with these performances and how

1187
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,000
no one is bouncing everybody off
the central character.

1188
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:12,320
And also, you know, you know,
when I, when I hear because

1189
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,560
people, some people will
criticize Downie's performance

1190
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,920
and they think it's, you know,
too, too over the top or

1191
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:22,319
whatever.
But I'm like, imagine if he

1192
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:25,279
didn't give that performance,
like, imagine it just like this

1193
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:28,279
calm, collected, understated
guy.

1194
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,279
I feel like an entire dimension
of the film would be would be

1195
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:35,479
lost because suddenly it would
just be like, you know, a bunch

1196
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,160
of people with stone faces just
like talking to each other, you

1197
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:39,960
know?
Like, I think it's really

1198
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,840
important that those characters
kind of make up for the almost

1199
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,000
the lack of kind of outward
emotion that we're getting from

1200
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,560
Oppenheimer.
Yeah, And I, I think that Downey

1201
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:55,240
Junior's character taps into
something that it doesn't

1202
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,880
necessarily matter if it's true
or not.

1203
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,640
What matters is does it
represent something that people

1204
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,640
feel like is true.
And I think that that

1205
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:10,840
performance of like this CD guy
who's only interested in

1206
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,319
himself, it taps into what we
already think about politicians.

1207
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:19,560
And so like, I in my mind, the
the over the top nature of the

1208
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:24,399
performance just fits with the
cultural psyche on what actually

1209
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:27,840
happens in back rooms.
So I like I, I think Nolan's

1210
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:33,680
just absolutely has Downey
Junior in the perfect spot to be

1211
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,880
a believable politician.
Well, and not only that, but

1212
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,800
like, This is why you hire
Downey.

1213
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,160
Like, Christopher Nolan is a
smart guy and he knows that what

1214
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,040
he's doing by hiring Downey is
he's bringing the Robert Downey

1215
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,279
narrative into the character
too.

1216
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,120
And I've always like, there is
such a huge part of me that's

1217
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,600
always like, man, I wish
somebody would just some some

1218
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,280
critic would just blow their
access to ever interviewing

1219
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:00,600
Downy again.
And just like come straight out

1220
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,240
and ask him like, wait, what did
you think?

1221
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:04,840
Why did Christopher Nolan hire
you?

1222
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,560
Are you aware that he's like
playing with your public persona

1223
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,440
in doing this?
Because you have to imagine that

1224
01:10:10,440 --> 01:10:12,200
this is transactional in some
way.

1225
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,960
He knows what's going on.
And it kind of reminds me of

1226
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,800
like when Fincher hires Ben
Affleck for Gone Girl.

1227
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,760
Like there's a reason why Ben
Affleck is the husband in Gone

1228
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:27,360
Girl and not anybody else.
And I think Downey's fantastic.

1229
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,200
And part of the reason that we
want to see Downey in this role

1230
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:34,600
is in that third act when he
gets going, Brad, it's kind of

1231
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,720
like that thing we just talked
about with Forrest Gump where

1232
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,000
Tom Hanks accidentally forgets
to do the Forrest Gump accent

1233
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:41,880
every now and then.
He just is Tom Hanks for a

1234
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,680
minute and then recovers down.
He does the same thing.

1235
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,080
He loses that sort of
affectation of straws, and he

1236
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:52,080
gets into that line reading
where his mouth is stretched

1237
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,960
like all the way horizontal, and
he's just saying, not Hiroshima,

1238
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,040
not Nagasaki.
It's the best line reading of

1239
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:02,040
anything in the entire movie.
And I'm like that I'm here for

1240
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:06,600
that, that you have to have a
villain who is as big as he is

1241
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,960
to counterbalance what Killian
Murphy's doing.

1242
01:11:10,440 --> 01:11:13,360
Now, I will say to go back to
the Lawrence of Arabia thing we

1243
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:17,240
were talking about earlier.
If I can try to draw comparisons

1244
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:22,080
here, Downey is the Anthony
Quinn of Lords of Arabia.

1245
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:23,760
Like, he's big, he's over the
top.

1246
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,200
And this is where I'm going to
get on my soapbox and say, when

1247
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,600
are we going to get justice for
Matt Damon in a movie?

1248
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:36,560
Because Matt Damon is the Alec
Guinness of this movie in that

1249
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,960
he is playing understated.
And Matt Damon is so good in

1250
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:45,520
everything he does in such a way
that doesn't draw any attention

1251
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:47,920
to himself.
I I really cannot think of an

1252
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,240
analog for him among A list
actors in the last 50 years.

1253
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,080
Yeah, I thought about Duvall,
but he like, he doesn't have the

1254
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,800
anger that Duvall could bring.
He's not like a hackman or a

1255
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:02,800
Hoffman, but you watch him in a
movie like Air last year and I'm

1256
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,080
like, this is this might be one
of the five best performances

1257
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,320
I've seen this year.
And it's so quiet and

1258
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,480
understated.
He does the same thing here.

1259
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:13,200
He brings this effortless charm
and he's most of the Comic

1260
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,040
Relief in the movie.
And I just feel like he does so

1261
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,640
much heavy lifting here and got
absolutely no recognition for

1262
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:26,320
it.
He is fantastic and, and he you,

1263
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,720
you forget, I mean, we
absolutely forget what a good

1264
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,720
actor he is and, and we take him
for granted.

1265
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,440
I mean, he's been in so many
great.

1266
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:41,760
I mean, he had, I mean, he had a
great 2023, you know, and he's

1267
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:46,440
the the scene where he first
meets Oppenheimer.

1268
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:52,960
That scene is one of the best
pieces of just like movie

1269
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,920
writing I've ever come across.
You know, I mean, it's and like,

1270
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:01,920
and I say movie writing, like,
you know, if I was ever teaching

1271
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,360
a class on how to write a
screenplay, I'd I'd point to

1272
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,360
that scene.
I was like, this is this is how

1273
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:07,520
you do it.
I mean, this is just like

1274
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:11,920
sparkling back and forth, zippy.
It's really funny.

1275
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,640
Like when people say Oppenheimer
is humorless, I'm like, I don't

1276
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:17,640
know what to say.
Like you just didn't watch the

1277
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:21,120
movie, you know, Like, there's
no way you watch this movie.

1278
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:24,800
And I mean, obviously the the
story is not a funny story.

1279
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:30,880
Like it's not a comedy.
But you know, Damon brings such

1280
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,600
great deadpan energy to
everything.

1281
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,400
And every time he's on screen,
it's it's kind of delightful.

1282
01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:44,040
And then later it's very moving
that, you know, when he kind of

1283
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:46,840
sticks up for Oppenheimer during
the hearing, even after

1284
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,840
everything.
So, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's

1285
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,720
a, it's a, it's a, it's a he's
great.

1286
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:57,160
He's a fantastic performance.
I think in some ways I got the

1287
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,160
sense because I was kind of
following this film and sort of

1288
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,960
the the the PR around it from
such an early point.

1289
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:08,840
I got the sense that initially
there was a kind of activity

1290
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:13,480
around Damon, but Eyre had just
come out and I think there was

1291
01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:17,360
the sense that they they were
going to just be like, we're not

1292
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,360
going to end up in a situation
where we've got like 3 best

1293
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,000
supporting actor nominees and
they all cancel each other out.

1294
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:27,440
It became very clear early on
that this was Downey's show and

1295
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:29,720
they weren't going to try and
like push for other people.

1296
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,640
And it was probably the right
decision obviously, since he

1297
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:38,320
won.
And I think also because of Air

1298
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:42,720
Damon just was kind of like, you
know, I don't need to, I don't

1299
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,680
need to do do a run for this
one.

1300
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,200
I mean, I don't know how many.
Like obviously because of the

1301
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,360
the because of the strikes, I
don't know how much, you know,

1302
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,320
strategizing there was actually
happening because that would

1303
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:57,520
have been illegal but or against
union rules.

1304
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:01,880
But but I did get the sense that
pretty early on that that they

1305
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,200
decided that that they were just
going to go with Downey and sort

1306
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,160
of maybe not promote a lot of
the others.

1307
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,760
Yeah.
Brad, I'm curious, this cast

1308
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:15,600
list goes 150 people deep.
Like we we could really spend

1309
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,360
another two hours talking about
all the performances here.

1310
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:21,520
I'm curious, like who else
sticks out to you in a way

1311
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:25,000
that's not just, oh, great job,
but this is worthy of a little

1312
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:31,880
bit of conversation as well.
Oh man, there's way too many

1313
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,320
people in this cast, Bob.
I mean, you have like freaking

1314
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:40,720
Kenneth Branagh just showed up
as Neil's Neil's bore for like 4

1315
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,000
minutes of screen time and
killing it.

1316
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:48,400
You have Gary Oldman just doing
an incredible Truman.

1317
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,520
I I I honestly don't know how to
answer the question.

1318
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,760
About Hartnett Josh fucking
Hartnett.

1319
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:59,440
He's incredible.
He's incredible.

1320
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:03,840
He's great.
Grumholtz Grumholtz steals every

1321
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,280
scene he's in in this movie.
Grumholtz is fantastic.

1322
01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:07,560
Yeah.
I mean, they're all, they're all

1323
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:08,360
great.
They're all great.

1324
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,880
And I think there was something,
I believe they said this on the

1325
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,400
Blank Check pod.
I think Griffin Newman said this

1326
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:17,360
on Blank Check episode on
Oppenheimer, which I thought was

1327
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:21,640
really, really like a great
observation and the perfect kind

1328
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:24,600
of observation from someone who
is like an actor and like a

1329
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:29,360
veteran sort of indie actor.
He said everybody in this movie

1330
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:33,360
has at some point been number
one on a call sheet, you know,

1331
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:35,280
and it's true.
Like it really is like when you

1332
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:37,880
look at this list of, you know,
there's like every single one of

1333
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:39,400
these people has been the star
of something.

1334
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:41,520
Maybe it was like an Indies or
something like that, but they're

1335
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,840
like all of them, you know?
And obviously, I mean, they have

1336
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,680
like Oscars.
So many of them have already

1337
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:50,720
have Oscars.
But but that gets to your point

1338
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,520
too, about like you surround the
character of Oppenheimer with

1339
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,160
people who are used to being
number one on a call sheet

1340
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:59,040
because there's an energy that
they bring to those

1341
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,600
performances.
We can call it hamminess if we

1342
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,600
want to, and I'm sure Nolan
directed them that way, but

1343
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:08,080
that's why you fill the movie
with characters like that.

1344
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,080
You don't get, you know, the
lifelong character actor who's

1345
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,800
used to playing #4 on the call
sheet, you get Rami Malek to

1346
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:17,800
come play the most nothing
burger of a part.

1347
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,560
And it's because Nolan, I, I
like listen, we have said many

1348
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,640
things about Rami Malek on this
podcast, Brad.

1349
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:27,320
But Nolan perhaps more than
anybody else knows how to

1350
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:31,640
utilize again, the public
perception and the persona of

1351
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,960
Rami Malek because he's inserted
into the movie immediately after

1352
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:39,360
Oppenheimer is questioned about
the spy at Los Alamos.

1353
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:41,640
And he's like, there's there
wasn't a spy, there wasn't a

1354
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,520
spy.
They cut to Chicago and the

1355
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:50,920
under the football field lab and
you're just like, what is that

1356
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,480
Rami Malek in the background?
What?

1357
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,520
And then he shows up again at at
at the hotel with his little

1358
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,080
clipboard and you're like, oh,
this dude is definitely the spy.

1359
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,240
Like this is look at him.
And the big reveal with his

1360
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:05,280
character is that he's the one
that actually turns everything

1361
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,920
against straws and in favor of
Oppenheimer.

1362
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:12,080
It's a brilliant use of an actor
that we all have perceptions of.

1363
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,480
I would say, Bob, I just want
you to spend 5 minutes comparing

1364
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:24,480
and contrasting the 2019 Oscar
Best Actor winner versus Killian

1365
01:18:24,480 --> 01:18:27,600
Murphy here.
I really want to hear that that

1366
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,800
diatribe.
Listen, I have been on record

1367
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:34,400
saying that what Killian Murphy
was missing was prosthetic

1368
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:38,160
teeth, and that if he had them,
this performance would have gone

1369
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:40,120
into the stratosphere.
Skyrocketed.

1370
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:42,040
It might have.
It might have ignited the

1371
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:48,280
stratosphere.
Now I'm imagining, you know, in

1372
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:53,240
in the final line of the movie,
if he just had prosthetic teeth

1373
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:54,880
for that.
Just that line.

1374
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:01,960
Yeah.
And, and the other thing is,

1375
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,920
like, I mean, Nolan is also just
a very practical filmmaker.

1376
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:09,200
And I think obviously casting
all these not just established

1377
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:14,080
actors, but like recognizable
faces, like people who've like

1378
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:17,880
been in box office hits or, or
just been like, like people we

1379
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:21,400
just know helps distinguish like
who's who, you know, like,

1380
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,360
because there's this huge cast.
I mean, he could have cast it

1381
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,320
with just the character actors.
You know, he could have just

1382
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:29,320
cast it with just like a bunch
of like, not very big faces.

1383
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:32,560
And we would be completely lost
no matter how good those

1384
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:34,680
performances were.
We would spend half the movie

1385
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,240
trying to remember who was who
and who had said what.

1386
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:41,320
But because these people are
all, I mean, it's like it's

1387
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:45,840
Robert Downey Junior, you know,
or Rami Malek or Casey Affleck,

1388
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,440
you know, like all these people
who show up or Matthew Modine,

1389
01:19:49,440 --> 01:19:55,520
you know, we know who they are.
We, we have some sense of

1390
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,920
following them over the course
of the film.

1391
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,280
You know, and, and, and I mean,
with Rami Malek, it's perfect

1392
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:06,680
because it's like he shows up in
two brief scenes.

1393
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:09,280
It's almost like he's like
pushed out off frame, right?

1394
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:11,240
I mean, it's like he shows up
and they just kind of push him

1395
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,680
off.
Like, I mean, the first time we

1396
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,440
do see him in Chicago, but
really the first time it

1397
01:20:15,440 --> 01:20:19,200
registers that it's Rami Malek,
he like he actually drops a pen

1398
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,920
and he falls out of frame.
You know, it's like, it's like.

1399
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:24,880
Was he even there?
They just they just use a blown

1400
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,360
cake and it's kind of like, and
I remember when I first saw it,

1401
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:29,760
I was like, Oh my God, did they
did they like cut Rami Malek out

1402
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,680
of this movie?
Like I I remember thinking, holy

1403
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:38,520
shit, did he get Adrian brodied?
You know, and and and of course

1404
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:40,720
it pays off so well right at the
end.

1405
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:41,920
You're like, oh, right, that
guy.

1406
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,000
I remember that guy.
He was there thing.

1407
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:51,400
So, so it's, you know, Nolan is
really sharp about how a movie

1408
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:56,520
works on an audience and how to,
I mean, so much of directing

1409
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:00,160
screen writing as well, but so
much of directing is really just

1410
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:05,480
this central question of how to
convey information and not just

1411
01:21:05,480 --> 01:21:12,040
like how to convey plot and and
exposition, but like when to do

1412
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:17,240
it, how to do it, how to, you
know, how much can you give

1413
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:20,640
without seeming like you're
giving too much or delivering

1414
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,560
too much exposition?
And this is, I mean, this has

1415
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:25,160
been a theme throughout Nolan's
career where, you know, in a

1416
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:28,160
film like inception, people
complained that there was too

1417
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:31,000
much exposition, right?
And then and then, you know,

1418
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:34,280
almost as a response, he makes
tenant where it's like what is

1419
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:39,480
happening, you know, so, so I
think this is a thing that he

1420
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:46,920
thinks about a lot.
And I mean, I, I love almost all

1421
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:50,480
his movies, so I think he's he's
mastered it in pretty much all

1422
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:52,520
of them.
But Oppenheimer is one of those

1423
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:57,360
movies where it's just like if
the person making this movie

1424
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,680
doesn't really understand how to
convey information that we are

1425
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,760
fucked.
Like we are completely fucked.

1426
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:09,240
And I think that represents the
two poles of Nolan for me, even

1427
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:10,960
more than like The Dark Knight
versus this.

1428
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,480
I think it's it's Inception,
which is kind of like clockwork

1429
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:16,440
filmmaking.
And this one, which is much

1430
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:19,120
more, I don't know what's the
word I want to use, Brad.

1431
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:21,600
It's like spiky, you know, I
keep saying you can't get your

1432
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,480
arms around it, but there's a
little bit more prickliness to

1433
01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:25,920
this one.
And it's edited in such a way

1434
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:29,040
that even the emotional moments,
it's, it's like he and the

1435
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:32,800
editor, Jennifer Lane, they,
they cut things just slightly

1436
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:36,520
short after every scene and
every line so that you're not

1437
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,560
allowed to linger on things.
And it kind of keeps you at a

1438
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,960
distance until that final gut
punch.

1439
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:43,880
And that's why it works so well
for me.

1440
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:47,600
Brad, I'd like I tried to get
you to watch this movie for a

1441
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:49,840
long, long time.
I've been waiting to talk about

1442
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:51,520
this with you for a long, long
time.

1443
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:54,720
And I think we will throw over
to you first for our last

1444
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:57,680
segment of the day, which we
call Let's Make it a double.

1445
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:01,240
We're near the end of the
episode, so thanks for listening

1446
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,240
to the film and Whiskey Show.
Let's have another film with

1447
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:05,680
this one, even if it's
struggling.

1448
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:07,040
It's the final segment of the
day.

1449
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:09,880
Now let's make it a double.
Let's Make It a Double is the

1450
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:13,120
part of the show where we pick a
movie to pair up with this one

1451
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:14,760
to make the perfect double
feature?

1452
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:17,520
Brad, you go ahead and go first,
man.

1453
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:23,560
Dude, the the more I think about
this movie, The more I think

1454
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:28,920
about the less I think about it
as a what I said earlier, an

1455
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:33,120
exploration of the atomic bomb.
And it does feel more of a

1456
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:38,840
conversation between Nolan and
the audience about what it means

1457
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:43,840
to have big ideas about what it
means to live a long life in the

1458
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:47,680
public spotlight that like there
are so many conversations

1459
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,640
happening here.
I mean, you could even look at

1460
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:55,360
this the the moment when Emily
Blunt Bob, you mentioned it

1461
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:59,040
earlier, the final dialogue that
they have where she's asking

1462
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,480
him, like, why are you letting
them tar and feather you?

1463
01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:05,440
Like, is that actually going to
lead to any sort of redemption?

1464
01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:11,520
And he says maybe like there's
an element of looking at our

1465
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:18,080
current Internet world and
saying, you know, we all do a

1466
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:21,680
wide variety of things
throughout our life and, and we

1467
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:26,240
are going to have to represent
our actions to the world at some

1468
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,200
point.
And so that there's this

1469
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:33,360
commentary on what does it mean
to be a persona, a, a person

1470
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:38,320
when every little minute detail
of your life will come under the

1471
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,600
microscope, You know, and as, as
Emily Blunt puts it, like 16

1472
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:46,240
years ago, that that there's so
many things happening here.

1473
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:50,880
So I, I think that this film is
a commentary on America as a

1474
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,360
whole.
And so I think that's why I want

1475
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,440
to pair it with There Will Be
Blood.

1476
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:57,520
Oh yeah, I think it's a great
pairing.

1477
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,080
Yeah.
Like, just even the iconography

1478
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:03,680
is so similar in the movies
from, you know, the the kind of

1479
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:07,880
shoddy construction of Los
Alamos and the hastily built

1480
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:10,560
town in There Will Be Blood.
Yeah.

1481
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:12,720
It's a great pairing.
All right.

1482
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:15,000
Yeah.
I think Brad's just shocked that

1483
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,200
I gave him a compliment.
He's just sitting there basking.

1484
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:19,880
On Thanks Bob.
Bill has given me compliments.

1485
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:22,360
Bob's giving me compliments.
What a great to start to.

1486
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:24,520
Season, I hope, man.
Well, it's going to be short

1487
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:25,360
lived.
Don't worry, man.

1488
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,080
Bill, go.
Where are you at with a double

1489
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:32,760
feature for Oppenheimer?
I have so many movies that I

1490
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,240
feel like I'd want to double
feature with Oppenheimer.

1491
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:37,960
And I go back and forth on these
and at at one point you, you

1492
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:43,040
mentioned JFK earlier.
I actually, there's a part of me

1493
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:46,160
that wants to do a triple
feature with JFK, Albert Stone's

1494
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,680
JFK, Oliver Stone's Nixon and
Oppenheimer.

1495
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:53,800
Nixon is kind of the follow up
to JFK in a weird way for me.

1496
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:57,520
And, and I love Nixon as well.
And they both kind of utilize

1497
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,640
that similar style as
Oppenheimer, which I mean, Nolan

1498
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:03,480
is a huge film fiend.
Like he would obviously be very

1499
01:26:03,480 --> 01:26:06,400
familiar with those movies and I
wouldn't be surprised if he

1500
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:10,000
borrowed a page from them.
And then, you know, there's

1501
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,680
another part of me that wants to
pair it with Fat Man and Little

1502
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:14,880
Boy, Roland Joe Face, Fat Man
and Little Boy, which I think is

1503
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,400
actually an underrated movie.
I mean, when it came out, I

1504
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:19,520
remember everybody said it was
just like the worst piece of

1505
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:22,520
shit ever.
And I remember watching it and

1506
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,760
being really moved by it.
It's obviously the same story,

1507
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,880
but that one takes many, many
liberties.

1508
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,440
I mean, Nolan is actually
ruthlessly faithful to the

1509
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:34,160
historical record and Fat Man
and Little Boy, I mean, just

1510
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:37,600
makes up all sorts of stuff.
But I think it's still actually

1511
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,000
a surprisingly moving film.
And then there's like there's

1512
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:44,960
another part of me that wants to
pair it with Amadeus because I

1513
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,800
know Nolan specifically thought
of the Salvieri Mozart

1514
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,720
relationship when thinking about
Oppenheimer and Strauss.

1515
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:53,160
Bilga that that was on my list
as well.

1516
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:55,480
I I was thinking about Amadeus.
Yeah.

1517
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,280
And there's also this other
question, which is I also would

1518
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:02,200
kind of want to pair it with a
movie that did show what

1519
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:05,920
happened in Japan.
You know, a film like Black

1520
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:10,480
Rain, for example, not the
Ridley Scott Black Rain, but

1521
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:12,960
like, you know, there are films
about that or something like

1522
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:16,680
Akira Kurosawa's Rhapsody in
August, you know, that really

1523
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:21,480
shows kind of the consequences
of, you know, the the legacy of

1524
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,000
of the bomb.
But the movie I'm going to go

1525
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:30,200
with is like probably almost
predictable for me, but I kind

1526
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,080
of have to do it.
I had to do it to him.

1527
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:37,400
And it's a movie by another one
of my favorite film makers,

1528
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:46,280
someone that Nolan also admires
greatly about 222 men who are

1529
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:50,680
not at odds with each other, but
kind of are in sort of this

1530
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,720
interesting dialectic with each
other.

1531
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:57,440
And they personality wise,
they're they're very different

1532
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:02,520
and they kind of come together
and they work together and then

1533
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,560
they're sort of at odds.
But then something happens to

1534
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,520
the film, sort of like what
happens to Oppenheimer, where

1535
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,440
halfway through the movie you
realize, oh, I'm not watching a

1536
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:13,680
movie about the thing I thought
I was watching a movie about.

1537
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,080
I'm watching a movie about
something else that actually is

1538
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:21,280
more consequential to the way
life is today.

1539
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:29,080
That movie is Michael Mann's The
Insider, with Al Pacino as the

1540
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:32,600
60 Minutes journalist and
Russell Crowe as the tobacco

1541
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:36,280
industry whistleblower.
Where first half of the movie,

1542
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:39,960
it feels like this is a movie
about a tobacco industry

1543
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:43,840
whistleblower and how the 60
minutes producer got him to go

1544
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:47,000
on the record and sort of the
death threats he was getting and

1545
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:48,880
all this stuff.
And, and all, you know, all all

1546
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,320
the stuff that went into and
the, you know, the, the, the

1547
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:55,320
court cases that went into all
this, right.

1548
01:28:56,360 --> 01:29:00,880
And then like halfway through
the movie, you know, CBS mixes

1549
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:04,440
the segment and suddenly it
becomes a movie about, oh, wait,

1550
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:06,400
it's about the corporate
takeover of journalism.

1551
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,920
You know, like in some ways a
completely different subject

1552
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:14,920
obviously related to that.
But but but suddenly in in its

1553
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,440
own way, kind of a, a, a
scarier, more sinister and more

1554
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:21,400
thorny subject that is more
open-ended.

1555
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:26,120
And it stops being like a screed
about the tobacco companies and

1556
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:30,240
becomes actually about a
situation that only got worse

1557
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:33,280
after 1999.
It turns into network.

1558
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:38,200
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So yeah, so I was like Insider

1559
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,160
and Oppenheimer.
I think that'd actually be kind

1560
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:45,000
of a kick ass, albeit long
double feature, but you know.

1561
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:47,480
Yeah, that's great, man.
Yeah, mine was JFK.

1562
01:29:47,480 --> 01:29:49,840
I'm going to stick with it.
I know it's like the lame boring

1563
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:51,640
answer here, but oh.
It's a great answer.

1564
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,480
I mean.
Probably the right answer.

1565
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:58,160
JFK to this day might still be
the best edited film of all

1566
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:00,880
time.
Like it truly when you go back

1567
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,160
and watch Brad.
We just did this last year.

1568
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,640
We were immersed in early 90s
movies.

1569
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:09,720
That movie is 30 years ahead of
its time in the way it's put

1570
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:11,760
together it.
It's unbelievable.

1571
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:14,640
Well, the other thing about JFK
is it does the thing, I mean,

1572
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:17,920
which lots of big movies did,
like war movies would do.

1573
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,760
But JFK does it in the way that
Oppenheimer does it, which is

1574
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,400
they're going to be a lot of
characters you have to take keep

1575
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:25,040
track of.
So they're going to be played by

1576
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:27,760
people like Kevin Bacon and Joe
Beschi and you.

1577
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:29,120
Know John Candy?
Yeah, exactly.

1578
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:30,560
They're.
Going to be played by people you

1579
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:34,080
recognize, like we're going to
help you out because we actually

1580
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,440
like, we actually care about the
audience.

1581
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:40,960
And, and it was a huge hit, you
know, like it was actually an

1582
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:43,880
enormous hit.
I mean, you know, it's, it turns

1583
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:46,680
out the, the, you know, I
remember, I mean, I was a kid

1584
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:49,040
when it came out.
I, I saw it in theaters and I

1585
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:52,960
totally bought into this
conspiracy theory about the JFK

1586
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:57,240
assassination.
And, and I was like, why, why

1587
01:30:57,240 --> 01:30:58,440
aren't people talking about
this?

1588
01:30:58,440 --> 01:31:01,280
And I remember I mean.
Really just, it's just one of

1589
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:04,480
the most effective pieces of
filmmaking I've ever seen it.

1590
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:07,000
Like every time I watch it, I'm
like, Oliver Stone knows.

1591
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:08,960
He knows what's up, man.
He does.

1592
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:12,640
And and I remember at the time,
I mean, JFK was, was such a

1593
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,720
phenomenon.
It was controversial, but it was

1594
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,360
like controversial only in the
extent that there were like

1595
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:22,520
people in officialdom who were
upset about the movie.

1596
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,760
Like audiences loved that movie.
Like people saw that movie.

1597
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:30,240
And I remember George Herbert
Walker Bush almost got cancelled

1598
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:35,440
because at one point he said or,
or his spokesman said that he

1599
01:31:35,440 --> 01:31:38,760
had no reason to doubt the
Warren Commission findings on

1600
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:42,040
the the JFK assassination.
And everybody was just like, get

1601
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:44,280
a load of this guy.
Can you believe it?

1602
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:47,160
You know, he didn't see the
movie.

1603
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:53,120
He doesn't know he's covering it
up, you know, and and yeah, we

1604
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:55,960
were all conspiracy theorists
for a for a hot second there

1605
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:57,440
because that movie was so
effective.

1606
01:31:57,440 --> 01:32:02,200
And then and then years later,
you kind of, you know, do your

1607
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:06,960
own research and maybe, maybe.
Maybe he made a little bit of

1608
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:07,360
this.
Maybe.

1609
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,080
Jim Gadison was full of crap.
That's what I that's what I

1610
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:13,560
talked about earlier, though.
Like a good storyteller will tap

1611
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:17,400
into things that people didn't
realize they already kind of

1612
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:19,200
believed were true.
Right.

1613
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:22,000
Right.
Like, and the JFK stuff is a

1614
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,000
perfect example of that.
Yeah.

1615
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:28,160
Yeah, also because I, I think
JFKI mean I JFK still works, you

1616
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:31,320
know, and it still works as a,
it's still a beautiful and very

1617
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,480
moving movie, but not because
now I'm like when I watch AFK

1618
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:37,080
now I don't, I'm not like
suddenly a conspiracy theorist

1619
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,320
again.
What it really works as, and it

1620
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:42,320
totally fits like this isn't
like I'm not, I don't think I'm

1621
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:45,040
imagining this, this angle on
the movie.

1622
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:47,280
I think it very much works with
this angle.

1623
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:51,920
It's a very personal expression
of Oliver Stone's complete

1624
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:56,160
disillusionment with American
Society and with American

1625
01:32:56,160 --> 01:33:00,200
institutions.
That is very much a resonant and

1626
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:04,200
and powerful and sincere theme.
You know, like where he goes

1627
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:08,080
with it is is is cracked.
But, but, but that comes through

1628
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:09,680
in the film.
It feels very personal.

1629
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,160
I mean, that scene at the end
when Kevin Costner is basically

1630
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:16,280
addressing the camera, I mean,
it becomes like Brechtian

1631
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:18,080
almost.
But but at that point, you think

1632
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:21,880
to yourself, this isn't
ultimately about JFK.

1633
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:25,480
It's about Oliver Stone's
disillusionment and to a certain

1634
01:33:25,480 --> 01:33:28,480
extent, our disillusionment with
with American institutions, you

1635
01:33:28,480 --> 01:33:32,080
know?
All right, guys, I got my JFK

1636
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:35,840
shot in the arm for today.
Let's give Oppenheimer some

1637
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:38,440
final scores.
I'll, I'll get mine out of the

1638
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:41,600
way first, Brad, I am going to
give this a 10 out of 10, but

1639
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:44,200
it's the kind of 10 out of 10
where it's like, I don't think

1640
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,120
this is a flawless movie.
I think that the decision to

1641
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:52,280
keep the viewer at arm's length
is sometimes a legitimate flaw

1642
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:56,200
of the film.
But in total, the the

1643
01:33:56,200 --> 01:34:00,720
overwhelming effect of the
movie, it just, no one's been

1644
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:03,640
accused of bludgeoning you to
death in many of the films

1645
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:05,200
before.
This might be the first time

1646
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:09,240
that I really think he, he truly
just does beat you down until

1647
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:12,640
you accept what he's doing.
And once you let it kind of wash

1648
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:15,560
over you, it's it is a singular
piece of filmmaking.

1649
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:17,080
It's got to be a 10 out of 10
for me.

1650
01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:22,600
Yeah, there there were many
parts throughout the film where

1651
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:28,640
I thought to myself, like this
individual piece isn't perfect,

1652
01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:35,680
but exactly what you said, Bob,
at the end of the day, this film

1653
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:41,280
is absolutely wild in the scope
it is trying to accomplish,

1654
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:44,080
which is exactly what we talked
about with every single

1655
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:47,960
Christopher Nolan film.
I think this time, though, he

1656
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:52,440
did it in a way that
simultaneously is entertaining

1657
01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:56,800
and fun and enjoyable to watch,
which all of his movies have

1658
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:01,720
those qualities.
But he also taps into the

1659
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:08,000
artistic, a little more art
housey side of cinema.

1660
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:11,560
And he just like marries those
two in such a beautiful way.

1661
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:15,640
And then like the cherry on the
top of all that is that there's

1662
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:20,320
really deep, meaningful
conversations you can have about

1663
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:22,080
what this movie is trying to
say.

1664
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:26,440
So like I he, he takes
everything you want out of

1665
01:35:26,440 --> 01:35:31,440
cinema, out of movies, out of a
blockbuster and, and, and gives

1666
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:34,640
it.
He just delivers so well.

1667
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:36,600
So I'm I'm with you, man, 10 out
of 10.

1668
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:43,000
It's 11.
If any movie goes to 11, this

1669
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:47,800
movie goes.
To 11, 100%, man.

1670
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,160
Well, Belga, I like, I can't
thank you enough for joining us

1671
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,720
for movie #3 and now that we've
hit an 11, I don't know what

1672
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:55,880
we're going to talk about next
time.

1673
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:58,960
We'll have to bring back Citizen
Kane for our next conversation.

1674
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:00,880
Just talking.
You can just come on and read

1675
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:04,400
your essay, it'll be perfect.
Always happy to do it, guys.

1676
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:08,400
And yeah, next time, you know,
when you when you do a season

1677
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:12,440
devoted to like the the stinky
films of the last 10 years, you

1678
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:14,880
know.
We'll do a revisit of

1679
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:17,680
Elizabethtown and you can help
me defend that movie against

1680
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:19,960
Brad.
I don't know if I've ever seen

1681
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:21,320
Elizabethtown.
Let's do it.

1682
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:24,240
Let's do it, Brad.
I, I, I feel like I must have

1683
01:36:24,240 --> 01:36:27,680
because you know, it was a thing
and I would have seen it, but

1684
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,560
like, like were the reviews so
bad that I just, it's possible I

1685
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:34,000
did watch it later on video and
just have forgotten about it.

1686
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,240
But yeah, I've never, I don't
think I've seen it.

1687
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:40,720
I certainly don't remember it.
Well, Bill, go where can

1688
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:42,920
everybody find you and, and
maybe let's plug something that

1689
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:46,320
you're currently working on.
Oh, well, you know, I'm always

1690
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:51,080
at Vulture, which is, you know,
my, my, my, my outlet.

1691
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:55,120
And, you know, New York
Magazine, Vulture, basically

1692
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:58,000
same outlet, but you know, my
stuff is on Vulture most of the

1693
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:01,560
time.
And you know, when does this go

1694
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:04,600
up?
This goes up on October 1st, so

1695
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:06,080
a week from tomorrow.
So next week, yeah.

1696
01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:09,400
I mean, so you know, I will at
this by this point, hopefully I

1697
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:11,640
will have published an interview
with Brian De Palma.

1698
01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:15,960
And also, I will probably
written a little bit about the

1699
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:20,120
movie Nickel Boys, which is the
opening night film of the New

1700
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:23,360
York Film Festival, directed by
Romel Ross, which is a film I

1701
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:28,280
really love and I think does
some amazing, fascinating things

1702
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:32,800
formally.
And I, I, I hope people respond

1703
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:34,120
to it.
I saw it at the Telluride Film

1704
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:39,360
Festival where, you know, I
mean, people loved it there too.

1705
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:42,000
But I'd be curious to see how
people respond to it.

1706
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:44,960
It's adaptation of Coleson
Whitehead's novel.

1707
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:49,800
And Ramelle Ross did a
documentary called Hale County

1708
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:53,600
This Morning this evening a few
years ago that I had loved.

1709
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:56,720
And this is his first narrative
feature.

1710
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:00,800
Anyway, I haven't written my
review yet, but by the time this

1711
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:03,120
podcast comes out I will
probably have written my review.

1712
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:06,320
All right, folks, that is Bilga
Ebiri.

1713
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,320
We'll be back next week talking
about a movie that is not as

1714
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:12,320
critically revered as
Oppenheimer, but surprisingly

1715
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:16,760
beloved Question mark.
It's 2011's The Help, Brad.

1716
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:20,240
Are you looking forward to that?
One, it is a movie that I've

1717
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:26,240
seen before and just based on
memory, if it if it serves me

1718
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:30,640
right, I just don't know if I
could call that a modern

1719
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:32,200
classic.
I don't know, man, we're going.

1720
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:34,440
To We'll see where we go with.
It we're going to see what all

1721
01:38:34,440 --> 01:38:37,120
the fuss is about and it's an 11
for sure.

1722
01:38:38,120 --> 01:38:41,400
Join us next week for the help,
but until then, I'm Bob Book.

1723
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:43,960
I'm Brad G.
And we'll see you next time.