Memento / Rabbit Hole Cavehill Bourbon

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In 2000, director Christopher
Nolan and star Guy Pierce gave

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the world a frenetic flick that
toyed with the ideas of memory,

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time and reality.
In 2023, we returned to Kentucky

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to try a four grain bourbon.
The film is Memento.

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The whiskey is rabbit hole.
Cave Hill and we'll review them

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both.
This is the film.

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And whiskey podcast.
Welcome to the Film and Whiskey

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Podcast, where each week we
review a classic movie and a

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glass of whiskey.
I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad Gee.
And this week, Brad.

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The mind effing begins on film
and whiskey.

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Bob, I I got a tattoo in
memoriam of this episode.

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It's just as Brad explains.
Fact #1, Brad always explains.

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This week we are starting a
miniseries of films by

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everyone's favorite time
traveling director, Christopher

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Nolan.
We've done a few Nolan films on

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the show before Brad, I know
we've done Interstellar.

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Let's see, Inception and The
Dark Knight, right?

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So this is, yeah, 4-5 and six
from Chris Nolan.

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Which will put him up there as
one of our higher, you know,

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amount of films reviewed.
Yeah, I mean, it really was kind

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of fortuitous, Brad, because
we're doing this miniseries of

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directors, and if you look at,
say, the IMDb Top 250, you see a

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lot of Nolan movies in there,
and it's because A, Nolan makes

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really good movies.
And B.

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He has amassed a following as a
director that is kind of

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unparalleled I would say, since
the early Tarantino days in

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terms of having fanboys.
So I kind of figured it would be

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necessary for us to talk about
these three movies at some point

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and what better time to do them
then leading up to the release

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of his movie Oppenheimer, which
I believe comes out on the 21st

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of July.
So yeah, it's, it's, it's great

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time for engagement and
downloads, Brad.

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That's daggone, right?
It is.

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I was going to say if there's
any time where we wanted to

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ingratiate ourselves to the
Nolan fanboys, this is it.

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This is the time.
Get ready for the butt kissing

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of all butt kissing.
Oh, and Speaking of which, not

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the butt kissing part, but the
fortuitous timing part.

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We don't always line up our
whiskeys in thematic ways, but I

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figured we had a whiskey sitting
on the shelf called Rabbit Hole

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and I was like, oh man, if we're
going to talk about going down

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the rabbit hole with any
director, Chris Nolan.

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Yeah.
Am I right?

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I mean, am I right?
Because I matched him up so?

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It would have been better with
the matrix.

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I think it would have been even
better with the Prestige, just

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because of pulling rabbits out
of hats and stuff like that.

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And you're going down the rabbit
hole that.

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Would have been better.
That's all right.

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We did pretty.
Good So.

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Well, by you take your own blame
for the failure of the show,

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Bob.
I mean, this could have been the

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week we did, like Basil Hayden's
or something, Brad.

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So just count your lucky stars,
man.

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Oh God, that whiskey sucks.
All right, well, let's steer

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away from Basil Hayden.
Let's steer back into Chris

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Nolan.
So it's been a while since we've

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done a Nolan film on the
podcast.

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Brad, you know, just, I'm sure
that you've watched a Nolan

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film, probably in the interim,
just because they're so popular.

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When you think about Christopher
Nolan.

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What kind of directorial or
writing or acting hallmarks come

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up in your mind?
Like who is he as a director?

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First off, I love that you
assume that I just watch movies

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like we've been friends for long
enough, Bob.

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That, you know, I don't watch
movies other than for the

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podcast.
I feel like it makes me feel

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like such a huge jerk, though,
to assume the other way to be

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like, well, Brad, I assume you
don't watch any movies, so let's

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just say that you haven't
watched a Chris Nolan movie in

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two years.
I I will clear the record for

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everyone listening here, Bob.
I have not watched a Christopher

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Nolan movie in the last.
Two years?

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Well, then, let me rephrase in
the two years it's been.

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What kind of things about Nolan
stick out to you when you think

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about him as a director, even
through two years of hazy, foggy

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memory?
I think that he always has

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really dynamic relationships
with the characters in his

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films.
I'll I'll spoil a tiny bit of

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momento here.
The moments where he has

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memories of his wife feel like
the most.

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Null in the version of himself
in this, you know, his earliest

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film.
Is this his first film?

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It's not technically his first
film, so he made a movie called

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Following a few years before
this, which was I think it's

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only about 65 or 70 minutes
long.

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Like it's just long enough to
count as a feature film.

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It played in a few film
festivals and kind of got him

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the recognition he needed to
make Memento.

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But Memento is the movie that
introduced him to the world.

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So yeah, it's his second movie,
but for all intensive burdens,

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it it's kind of his first movie.
Yeah, so there there's pieces of

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Memento that feel like, oh, you
can see where he will go as a

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blockbuster director.
But for now, what?

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What I think of when I think
about Nolan is convoluted plots.

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That have just wild endings.
And I think, I mean the only one

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I can think of that's not
necessarily that wild is like

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Batman Begins.
And even that one has a plot

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twist.
He is just a fascinating

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director who uses the camera
really well in memory sequences.

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I think that's what I I think
about and and I'll go back to

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what we said about Interstellar.
He just swings for the fences

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constantly and it doesn't mean
he always gets there, but I

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think the reason he has a fanboy
following is because he's always

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trying to like, hit a Grand
Slam.

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Yeah, I mean, totally agree.
I think that as a filmmaker,

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what he's most known for is
playing with time.

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He's obsessed with the concept
of time.

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Whether it's moving forward in
time or backward in time or

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across time in Interstellar,
it's always a theme throughout

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his movies.
And time and memory, I think,

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are the two things that you
could really call his hallmarks

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as a director.
Brad, you know, we, we just came

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off of a Chaplin series, and I
told you that I got 12 books out

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of the library about Chaplin.
I went to the library and I

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ordered some books about Chris
Nolan, and there's only three of

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them on my shelf now.
And I think it says a lot about,

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I don't know, the state of film
criticism that one of the most

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significant filmmakers of the
last 20 years has only had a few

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films written about him or a few
books written about him.

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And I can't decide if it's
because it it just doesn't seem

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like it's been long enough to
offer a career evaluation.

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Or if it's just that his themes
are so on the surface or, you

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know, so proudly displayed that
there's really not much of A

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need to do a book length dive
into them.

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Because I think everyone
recognizes this is what this guy

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deals with.
Like, even to your point,

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something like the Batman series
that he did, The Dark Knight

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series.
Those are all about time.

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There's always a ticking clock
at the end of those movies,

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whether it's the bomb at the end
of the third one or racing

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against time in the Joker in the
second one, then even in the

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first one.
When you're establishing the

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story of Bruce Wayne, like the
memory of his parents getting

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murdered is what drives the
character of Batman.

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And so it he's always been the
perfect filmmaker for that

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character because it's right in
line with what he likes to talk

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about.
I haven't seen Batman Begins in

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a really long time.
I think that one ends with a

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bomb racing for Wayne Tower at
the at the center of the city,

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right?
Yeah.

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It's him and Liam Neeson on The
Monorail, yeah.

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Yeah, so even that one, it's
it's a bomb race.

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Kind of like the third one.
Yeah, man.

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I'm excited to dive into Nolan,
and I don't mean to make it

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sound like he's a simplistic
filmmaker.

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Like you said, he's always
playing with the chronology of

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his movies.
And sometimes it seems like it's

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necessary for the movies to be
told.

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And sometimes it feels like it's
just Chris Nolan wanting to take

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a pretty straightforward story
and just make it convoluted for

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the sake of making it
convoluted.

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These three films we're going to
look at, I have wildly different

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opinions across the three of
them.

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And to get us back to Memento, I
will say this.

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I have not seen Memento in
probably 15 years.

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I watched it one time.
I wasn't a huge fan.

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I always felt like it was a
little forced.

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It was a little contrived.
A little too cute for its own

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good, you and I, Brad sat down
and watched this movie together.

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A first for the Film and Whiskey
podcast.

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An absolute first.
I I mean, we have never once sat

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down together and watched a
movie for the purpose of

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recording an episode for you
all.

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You are welcome.
That's crazy, man.

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Yeah, you're welcome.
I mean this is this is episode

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what like 209 or something for
us?

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And it's never ever happened
before.

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And not to spoil too much of my
thoughts on the movie, but I

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have changed my tune on Memento.
I I mean, I'm excited to talk

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about it then.
All right, man, I think that

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I've been delaying something,
the inevitable here for a couple

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minutes, and that's because I do
not envy your task today.

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In our first segment, which we
call, Brad explains.

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Brad's gonna give us the movie
plots with only 60 seconds

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ticking on the clock, so let's
go ahead and do your take with

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this little segment that we call
Brad explains.

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Would you say that doing a Brad
explains for Gone with the Wind

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or Memento would be harder?
I mean, God, the wind is just

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like this happens, and then this
happens, and then this happens.

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And, you know, like it's just a
long.

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Movie.
But God with the Wind is like

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this happens then this happens.
And then 397 other things

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happen.
That was more just like a list

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that you were reading.
This is going to be a real

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challenge.
So Brad explains is the part of

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the podcast where Brad breaks
down the plot of the movie that

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he has just seen often for the
first time Brad was this your

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first time watching Memento?
It sure was, Bob.

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Well then, I really don't envy
you.

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You have 60 seconds on the clock
to break down the plot of this

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movie.
Folks, we are going to get into

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spoilers on this review.
If you've not seen the 22 year

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old movie Memento, I need you to
just stop here, go listen to it

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and then come back because this
movie and the discussion of it

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is going to hinge on its
spoilers.

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So Brad, just a no holds bar.
Don't hold anything back.

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You've got one minute on the
clock to break down this movie

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and go.
Guy Pierce is an insurance agent

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whose big break came when he
proved that a man named Sammy

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Jankes.
Did not actually have shortterm

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memory loss, and he was faking
it, which led to the death of

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that man's wife and then he
himself.

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Guy Pierce's character receives
shortterm memory loss after his

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wife is brutally attacked and
murdered in their home.

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The rest of the film is about
him trying to put together the

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pieces of his wife's murder and
figure out who the killer is.

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By the end of the film he has
interacted with Trinity from the

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Matrix and she is helping him to
try and figure out the problem.

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Joe Pantoliani, Leoni Leoni.
Joe plays a guy named Teddy who

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is a police officer who's trying
to help him find the killer.

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But at the end of the film, it
turns out that they already

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found and killed the killer, but
the shortterm memory loss never

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allowed him to remember that.
And so Teddy has been using him

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to kill a bunch of different
people who are bad guys, and Guy

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Pearce turns the formula around
and uses his shortterm memory

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loss to seek out and kill Teddy.
OK, I'll let you go for a minute

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and 20 seconds because that's,
it's hard, man, you know?

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Thanks man.
It is what?

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It is.
I'm really interested, Brad, in

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the fact that you explained this
movie in the chronological order

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that the events happen in the
movie.

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00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,360
That's the only way to do it,
man.

225
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,800
And I'm wondering how important
it is that we say upfront that

226
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520
the central conceit of this
movie is that it is not told in

227
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,560
chronological order.
It is told in a disorienting

228
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:36,820
fashion.
And it really does take you

229
00:12:36,820 --> 00:12:39,300
until just about the last minute
of the movie to piece everything

230
00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:42,340
together, not only because
information is withheld from

231
00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:46,180
you, but just because you are
watching two different timelines

232
00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:49,660
being intercut.
Yeah, and and that's, that's

233
00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:52,460
kind of the whole, the whole
gimmick, Bob.

234
00:12:53,260 --> 00:12:57,780
It's it's, I hate to say it, but
this movie is a big gimmick.

235
00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:00,700
It is a big.
It mostly works.

236
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:05,100
The thing that makes it not work
is what Nolan is constantly.

237
00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:11,900
Undermined for which is way too
much dialogue.

238
00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:15,380
And I I just don't know if he's
a great director of actors

239
00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:17,740
because there's a lot of bad
acting in this movie.

240
00:13:17,780 --> 00:13:20,420
Oh yeah, I disagree with that.
I think that he's a really good

241
00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:22,860
director of actors.
I will say that you and I were

242
00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:25,140
sitting next to each other on
the couch watching this movie

243
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:27,900
and at multiple points, you
know, at, you know, in the

244
00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:30,900
middle of the movie, we were
stopping it and just laughing at

245
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:32,340
some of the dialogue in this
movie.

246
00:13:32,780 --> 00:13:34,440
But.
And I think it's also really

247
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,800
important to note that if you're
going to kind of categorize this

248
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,400
movie into a genre, this is a
noir.

249
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,720
This is 100% of film noir.
It has all of the elements of a

250
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,640
noir.
It's an unreliable narrator who

251
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,480
may or may not be doing sketchy
things.

252
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,040
It's got corrupt cops.
It's got a femme fatale.

253
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,880
It's got a mystery that needs to
be unraveled.

254
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,720
People keep dying.
It has a really bleak outlook on

255
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,960
the world, like it is 100% of
film noir.

256
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,200
And I do wonder if.
Because of having that in mind,

257
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:11,480
if Nolan makes these characters
speak in sort of almost 1940s

258
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,440
hard boiled detective language,
I'm not saying it works, but I'm

259
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,680
wondering now, Brad if the the
reason the dialogue feels so

260
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,880
forced sometimes is because he's
trying to make the dialogue

261
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,000
sound more like a noir.
Yeah, and and there's places

262
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,120
where it works.
I mean, honestly, I think that

263
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,840
some of the black and white
scenes.

264
00:14:31,330 --> 00:14:34,290
Work because they're black and
white and you're like yeah, this

265
00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:37,770
is this is a noir that is
totally makes sense.

266
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:42,730
I think that the the big issue I
have is that not only is the

267
00:14:42,730 --> 00:14:48,610
dialogue rough, but it the
actors just often feel stilted

268
00:14:48,610 --> 00:14:51,970
throughout the movie.
I think that guy Pierce does a

269
00:14:51,970 --> 00:14:56,530
phenomenal job when he's not
talking like when he is silent.

270
00:14:56,610 --> 00:15:01,010
I I think that he has a talent
for looking blank.

271
00:15:01,450 --> 00:15:05,450
On the surface, while like
completely confused underneath

272
00:15:05,450 --> 00:15:08,490
and trying to figure out what's
going on, and he has a real

273
00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:11,570
talent for that.
But then he opens his mouth and

274
00:15:11,570 --> 00:15:17,410
it's not great, Bob.
I can feel you trying to jump

275
00:15:17,410 --> 00:15:19,530
into performances here, and I
want to.

276
00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:22,450
I just want to real quick, I
want to reestablish this whole

277
00:15:22,450 --> 00:15:25,530
thing about the timeline of the
movie, because I feel like we're

278
00:15:25,530 --> 00:15:27,930
going to be talking about the
different timelines of this

279
00:15:27,930 --> 00:15:29,690
movie and we need to at least
offer a little bit of an

280
00:15:29,690 --> 00:15:33,700
explanation, so.
The movie starts with the

281
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:39,020
chronological ending of the
events, and you kind of get a

282
00:15:39,020 --> 00:15:42,500
hint very early on that
everything that you see in color

283
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:44,940
is moving in reverse
chronological order.

284
00:15:45,220 --> 00:15:48,260
At the same time, these color
scenes are being intercut with

285
00:15:48,260 --> 00:15:51,500
black and white scenes and those
are moving forward in time the

286
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:54,460
way time normally works.
And what you come to find out is

287
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:58,780
basically like you have two
timelines being intercut 1.

288
00:15:59,260 --> 00:16:03,420
Going from the end towards a
middle point backwards in time

289
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:05,940
and one going from the beginning
towards that same middle point,

290
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:08,740
and they both arrive at the same
middle point at the end of the

291
00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:10,020
movie.
And you get this really cool

292
00:16:10,020 --> 00:16:13,260
transition from black and white
fading into color.

293
00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:15,340
And you can tell all right, this
is where these two timelines

294
00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:18,660
intersect.
But you're entirely right, Brad,

295
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:23,060
in that the the stylizing of
those different timelines is

296
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:25,700
almost completely different.
I mean, not just the fact that

297
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:29,330
it's black and white, but.
The kind of dialogue that or I

298
00:16:29,330 --> 00:16:32,530
guess monologue that Guy Pierce
is giving in those black and

299
00:16:32,530 --> 00:16:35,170
white scenes where he's just
talking over the phone to an

300
00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:39,850
unseen person that feels very
much like your standard, you

301
00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:43,810
know, Double Indemnity or Sunset
Blvd. kind of narration where

302
00:16:43,810 --> 00:16:45,410
he's he's just talking about
okay.

303
00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:46,930
This is what happened with Sammy
Jenkas.

304
00:16:47,290 --> 00:16:49,690
And you could see that if this
was a movie from the 50s, they

305
00:16:49,690 --> 00:16:51,640
would have this.
Really nice.

306
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,280
Like dissolve into the first
time I met Sandy Jenkins and you

307
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,120
have this voice over, except
it's not played as voice over.

308
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,040
It's played as like this
paranoid conversation that he's

309
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,240
having inside a motel room.
I don't know, man.

310
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,359
I I I can't say that the
dialogue or the way that it's

311
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,359
written works for me as
believable dialogue.

312
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,960
But I think for me it's more
that this is the early 2000s

313
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,599
where it was really cool to
mumble everything.

314
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,960
Like, it reminded me so much of,
like Jim Carrey in Eternal

315
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,840
Sunshine how you can never he's
like, he's so morose that you

316
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,920
can't really understand what
he's saying at any point.

317
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,640
That's Guy Pearce in this movie.
And I know it's intentional, but

318
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,880
we watched this movie with
subtitles on because it was the

319
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,480
dialogue comes at you really
fast, but it's never enunciated

320
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,480
well enough to understand.
And and that's that's like a

321
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,040
problem, Bob, like if I'm
sitting here on this podcast.

322
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:51,470
And I'm just talking like this.
And I think that it's really

323
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:54,430
silly that I just, you know,
things like, like you would

324
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:57,590
drive down to Delaware and slap
me across the face.

325
00:17:57,750 --> 00:18:01,230
Right with a microphone.
With a microphone, tell me to

326
00:18:01,950 --> 00:18:06,550
enunciate, sit closer.
And I I just don't understand

327
00:18:06,550 --> 00:18:12,070
how a Hollywood film director
can struggle to have his actors

328
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:14,510
be understood.
And I know that he has a whole

329
00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:17,030
thing about how he wants his
sound design done.

330
00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:18,550
You don't need to understand
every word.

331
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,520
And like, for the most part, I'm
fine with that.

332
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,960
Like, I actually have come to a
point where I don't like

333
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,400
subtitles because I want to
watch the movie as the director

334
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,520
wants me to watch it.
But I'll just tell you this if I

335
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,290
can't understand.
Even like 30% of what an actor

336
00:18:36,290 --> 00:18:38,730
says throughout the movie, you
know, especially if it's the

337
00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:41,410
main actor, I'm not going to
enjoy the movie.

338
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:45,410
I want to know what's going on.
And and Momento was a struggle

339
00:18:45,410 --> 00:18:47,290
with that.
Especially in a movie like this,

340
00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:50,690
where so much of the information
is withheld from you until the

341
00:18:50,690 --> 00:18:54,490
very end that you need to be
able to rely on what you're

342
00:18:54,490 --> 00:18:57,410
seeing and hearing just to make
heads or tails of what's going

343
00:18:57,410 --> 00:18:59,170
on.
Even if it's supposed to be

344
00:18:59,170 --> 00:19:02,090
disorienting, Even if you're not
supposed to understand exactly

345
00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:04,810
who put those.
Cuts on his face or what's her

346
00:19:04,810 --> 00:19:07,010
motivation right now?
You at least need to be able to

347
00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:10,090
understand what they're saying
and what they're pretending is

348
00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:12,730
their alibi.
And when you can't understand

349
00:19:12,730 --> 00:19:16,410
that, it really does cause some
huge problems for this movie.

350
00:19:16,850 --> 00:19:19,570
And I think that it's kind of a
minor miracle, Brad, because

351
00:19:19,810 --> 00:19:22,530
like I said, at multiple points
in this movie, I was like, this

352
00:19:22,530 --> 00:19:24,530
is not working at all, Brad.
And you were like, no, I don't

353
00:19:24,530 --> 00:19:26,490
like this at all.
And I was about to come in here

354
00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:30,250
with the hottest hot takes ever
and say, oh man, it's even worse

355
00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:32,730
than I remembered.
And to its credit.

356
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:38,500
The last 20 minutes of this
movie are pitch perfect to a

357
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,460
point where I can't believe how
much it improved my final score.

358
00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:46,540
Yeah, no, I I mean the the last
20 minutes of this film,

359
00:19:47,180 --> 00:19:50,500
everything comes together.
The editing is nice and tight.

360
00:19:50,780 --> 00:19:54,900
The acting takes a jump up as
the action becomes more tense.

361
00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:59,740
Like everything about the last
15 to 25 minutes was great.

362
00:19:59,980 --> 00:20:03,630
Like impressive.
But the rest of it was a very,

363
00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:08,550
very average film that I wish
had been directed by, like, I

364
00:20:08,550 --> 00:20:12,310
don't know, Alfonso Cuaron.
Like, I feel like there's just

365
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:16,390
other people who would have done
a much better job with like 80%

366
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:18,950
of this movie.
I think that this movie relies

367
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:22,430
on its editing, and we usually
don't talk about editing on this

368
00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:26,270
podcast in depth, but the way
it's edited together, it reminds

369
00:20:26,270 --> 00:20:29,800
me a lot of, like some of the.
Like like Oliver Stone movies

370
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,880
from the early 90s, like JFK,
which Brad, I can't wait till we

371
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,600
watch that on the show someday.
It is probably the best edited

372
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,760
movie I've ever seen.
And there's this whole sequence

373
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,520
towards the end of the movie
where Kevin Costner's character

374
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,840
is giving his argument in court
for why Lee Harvey Oswald was

375
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,240
not actually the killer.
And it's just this dizzying

376
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,160
montage of, you know, the
Zapruder film with reenactment

377
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,000
with courtroom footage and the
sound and the John Williams

378
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,430
score is like.
It to me it's like the pinnacle

379
00:20:57,430 --> 00:21:00,750
of film editing and I think this
movie relies on that a lot.

380
00:21:00,750 --> 00:21:04,310
You see this all through the 90s
with the twist ending kind of

381
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:08,230
movies like The Usual Suspects
and and I think this movie

382
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:10,590
really, really does rely on that
editing.

383
00:21:10,830 --> 00:21:14,070
I don't know if a Cuaron
necessarily would have made this

384
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:17,310
movie that much better because
it's about the way that the

385
00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:20,150
movie is cut.
And if you don't have what I

386
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:22,710
think is some really great
editing, I don't think the movie

387
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:24,510
works at all, no matter who's
behind the camera.

388
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:27,670
I have a question for you about
the JFK assassination.

389
00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:30,950
Yes, this is exactly what I
wanted to talk about on our

390
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:33,670
Momento episode.
Hey man, you brought it up, so

391
00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:37,590
it's all your fault.
So a conspiracy theory, by

392
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:41,470
definition, is something that,
like, a small part of the

393
00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:44,830
population believes, right?
Like that's kind of like a basic

394
00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:47,110
thing is like, yeah, this little
group of people believe in

395
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:48,870
Sasquatch.
Sure.

396
00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:53,310
Would you say it's more of a
conspiracy theory?

397
00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:58,890
To believe that, like Oswald was
the shooter, that like, he was

398
00:21:58,890 --> 00:22:01,530
the only one.
Like to believe the story that

399
00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:04,970
was told to us.
Or to, like believe the the

400
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:07,770
gunman on the hill, the two
shooters, the whole thing.

401
00:22:07,770 --> 00:22:12,010
Like, do you think it's more of
a conspiracy theory now in 2023

402
00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:14,490
to be like, yeah, no, I just
think it happened the way the

403
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:18,590
government said it did.
I feel like everybody believes

404
00:22:18,590 --> 00:22:20,670
in the conspiracy theory.
I think it's a good question.

405
00:22:20,670 --> 00:22:23,550
I think that you can't
necessarily equate the terms

406
00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:27,270
conspiracy theory and like
fringe belief, right?

407
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:30,750
Like conspiracy theory is just
like the theory that someone was

408
00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:34,830
conspiring in a way that the
record doesn't reflect and at

409
00:22:34,830 --> 00:22:37,230
that could be something that is
believed by a small or a large

410
00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:39,870
part of the population.
I think you're right though in

411
00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:43,560
that it is a more.
Fringe belief.

412
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,320
A more radical notion nowadays
to believe that it happened the

413
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,880
way they said.
I think more of the population

414
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,760
thinks JFK had some shady
business going on and the

415
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,880
government and or someone else
took care of him.

416
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,800
Some some bad actors, if you
will.

417
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaking of bad actors, let's
get back into talking about

418
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,280
Memento.
I'm really excited together,

419
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,000
baby.
I'm really excited to talk about

420
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,760
Carrie Ann Moss in this movie
because she plays.

421
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,800
One of the most villainous and
devious femme fatales I've ever

422
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,280
seen in a noir.
And yet, the more I thought

423
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,560
about this movie, Brad, the more
I'm not sure how devious she

424
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,520
actually is.
We need to talk about it.

425
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,560
But before we get into the
character, let's talk about the

426
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,680
performance.
I think she's really good in

427
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,400
this movie.
Like, her character's not

428
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,280
fleshed out on purpose.
We only know who she is through

429
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,200
Leonard, and she plays exactly
the role she needs to play in

430
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,600
his story, and then she's out of
the movie.

431
00:23:38,980 --> 00:23:41,860
So you don't get these big
emotional scenes from her where

432
00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:44,660
she's talking about her
motivations, but you don't need

433
00:23:44,660 --> 00:23:47,380
that in a movie like this.
And I think for what she's asked

434
00:23:47,380 --> 00:23:49,260
to do, she's really, really
good.

435
00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:55,340
Yeah, overall, her performance
is like 7 out of 10, and then

436
00:23:55,460 --> 00:23:59,740
she has that scene where she's
screaming at him and just like

437
00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:03,230
basically calling him an idiot.
And like, you're not even going

438
00:24:03,230 --> 00:24:06,110
to remember this.
Like, I'm going to go back out

439
00:24:06,110 --> 00:24:07,630
and come back in.
You're going to forget the whole

440
00:24:07,630 --> 00:24:09,270
thing and I'm going to tell you
whatever I want.

441
00:24:09,630 --> 00:24:13,150
And then she does it.
And it like her performance in

442
00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:17,430
that scene where she's faking
how she got attacked is

443
00:24:18,030 --> 00:24:21,590
mindblowingly good, like 10 out
of 10 acting.

444
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:26,190
And I was just like, oh man,
dude, she is like terrifying

445
00:24:26,190 --> 00:24:28,390
here.
All right, so here's The funny

446
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:29,950
thing about this character and
Brad.

447
00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:32,230
I was reading and reading and
reading before we press record.

448
00:24:32,990 --> 00:24:35,270
I understand this movie pretty
easily.

449
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:37,230
Like, once you understand the
gimmick of the movie, you go,

450
00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:40,110
OK, so I can lay these things
out in my mind chronologically.

451
00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:43,150
The only thing that I couldn't
wrap my mind around was her

452
00:24:43,150 --> 00:24:46,630
character.
And if she is truly evil or

453
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:49,990
like, what is the the end point
of her character?

454
00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:52,070
Does she still, is she still
using Leonard?

455
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:55,350
It does she still hate Leonard?
And we think about the character

456
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:59,310
chronologically.
She is a bartender who is also

457
00:24:59,310 --> 00:25:02,190
kind of helping set up drug
deals for her boyfriend Jimmy.

458
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:06,110
Jimmy is supposed to go meet
this guy named Teddy, who we we

459
00:25:06,110 --> 00:25:09,990
later learned who Teddy is, and
she sets up this deal and Jimmy

460
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:13,710
never comes back.
And then a guy who we know is

461
00:25:13,710 --> 00:25:18,510
Leonard shows up in Jimmy's car
wearing Jimmy's clothes, and she

462
00:25:18,510 --> 00:25:21,110
figures out pretty easily that
it's this guy that Jimmy's been

463
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:23,630
calling the memory guy from
seeing him around town.

464
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,160
And so she starts using him to
try to get information on what

465
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,120
the hell happened to her drug
dealer boyfriend.

466
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,800
She has him go kind of kidnap
and get rid of this guy named

467
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,360
Dodd at some point.
And once he does that, she seems

468
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:41,000
to have like a change of heart.
Because the first times we see

469
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,160
her in the movie is the end of
the story chronologically, and

470
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,240
she's helping him find this
license plate that he wrote

471
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,600
down.
And I kept thinking, like, oh,

472
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,760
she was using Leonard to bump
off Teddy the cop.

473
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:56,740
But I think at one point in the
movie, Teddy even tells Leonard,

474
00:25:56,740 --> 00:25:58,060
like, no, she doesn't know who I
am.

475
00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:02,980
So I don't really think she
actually is being devious beyond

476
00:26:02,980 --> 00:26:04,940
getting the information that she
wanted.

477
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:07,620
And and she was like, hell yeah,
I'll use this guy, He's wearing

478
00:26:07,620 --> 00:26:09,820
my boyfriend's clothes.
He clearly knows something.

479
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:13,460
And the more I think about it,
the more I'm like, the reveal is

480
00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:15,260
set up as if she's a femme
fatale.

481
00:26:16,020 --> 00:26:18,220
But when you lay it out
chronologically, it's actually

482
00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:20,180
kind of reasonable what she
does.

483
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,560
Yeah, and and I'm curious if she
somehow knows that Teddy is a

484
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,120
cop.
Like even if he says, oh, she

485
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:32,320
doesn't know who I am, Like, I
wonder if she has figured out

486
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,960
somehow that he's a cop and is
responsible for her boyfriend's

487
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,920
murder.
And so it's like, well, you

488
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,400
know, I can use this, this peers
to get Leonard to get back at

489
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,800
him.
But even if that's not the case,

490
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,640
like.
I like I like her character.

491
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,000
I think that she's kind of smart
and witty and her ability to

492
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,280
control the situation is really
impressive.

493
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,320
And that takes us to Joe
Pantoliano as Teddy, who I

494
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,320
think, I mean, he has this, the
kind of scene stealing

495
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,480
performance of the movie, like
he's the wisecracking side

496
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,620
character.
He is perfect for what this

497
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:14,540
movie needs him to be.
It's the Edward Edward G

498
00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:16,900
Robinson character of this
movie.

499
00:27:17,540 --> 00:27:20,940
He's really, really good.
And I love that Nolan catches

500
00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:24,940
both of these people, Carrie Ann
Moss and Joe Panchaliano coming

501
00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:26,580
off The Matrix.
Like this is the first movie

502
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:28,500
they make after The Matrix.
I think both of them.

503
00:27:29,260 --> 00:27:31,580
And they're both so good in this
movie.

504
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:34,660
And I think that it's kind of
funny because in The Matrix you

505
00:27:34,660 --> 00:27:37,220
get the big reveal that Joe
Panchaliano is the bad guy.

506
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,840
In this movie, you get the big
reveal that he's actually been

507
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,440
helping our protagonist the
whole movie, and that the

508
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,920
Trinity character is actually
kind of a Dick to him, you know

509
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,200
what I mean?
Like it's a great little

510
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,680
reversal of their roles from The
Matrix.

511
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,040
I really loved his performance.
Yeah, Joe was hands down the

512
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,600
best performer in the movie.
I really liked Mark Boone

513
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,600
Junior.
I thought that he was good as

514
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,810
the the receptionist.
At the motel.

515
00:28:06,370 --> 00:28:10,690
But I I think that Joe
Pantoliano definitely steals the

516
00:28:10,690 --> 00:28:14,170
show and I like.
At the end of the day though, I

517
00:28:14,170 --> 00:28:19,370
have to ask, is it like, was
what he was doing worth it?

518
00:28:20,250 --> 00:28:24,010
Like he like, he tells him like,
yeah, you killed the guy like 4

519
00:28:24,010 --> 00:28:28,450
guys ago and I've just been
using you to keep killing more

520
00:28:28,450 --> 00:28:29,970
guys.
Like do you think he has it down

521
00:28:29,970 --> 00:28:34,330
to a science of like?
All right, day one show him this

522
00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:39,170
picture this guy, and day two do
this and like like does he have

523
00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:42,290
it figured out down pat?
Like how to get him to kill

524
00:28:42,290 --> 00:28:44,770
people?
I just feel like there's easier

525
00:28:44,770 --> 00:28:47,770
way to kill people than have a
dude with short term memory

526
00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:50,390
loss.
Like go through the motions

527
00:28:50,390 --> 00:28:53,590
every day and figure it out.
Well, especially since you have

528
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:56,150
to be with him for so much.
Like, it's one thing to just

529
00:28:56,150 --> 00:28:59,630
hire a hitman when you don't
have any other contact beyond,

530
00:28:59,630 --> 00:29:02,190
like, here's the guy, here's the
money, go kill him.

531
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:04,950
You know, like they're going to
have video surveillance footage

532
00:29:04,990 --> 00:29:08,070
of him riding around in a car
with Leonard, like, for weeks

533
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:11,830
and weeks on end.
Yeah, it it just feels very

534
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:16,030
contrived.
I don't know out of out of all

535
00:29:16,030 --> 00:29:19,200
the plots.
That Christopher Nolan has sold

536
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,400
us.
I feel like this one is kind of

537
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,160
the silliest where this this
detectives like yeah, you know

538
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,720
what I could do with this short
term member lost guy you know

539
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,520
turn him into a psych hospital
or.

540
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,960
All right, Brad, I think we're
in a good place to hit pause.

541
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,400
Let's try this rabbit hole.
What do you say?

542
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:47,680
Let's get to it.
All right, so today we are

543
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,960
checking out Rabbit Hole Cave
Hill.

544
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,080
This is the second Rabbit Hole
product we've tried on the show.

545
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,880
And the thing about Rabbit Hole
Brad, is I know that at one

546
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,640
point they weren't putting these
fancy little names on their

547
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,880
bottles.
It was just like Rabbit Hole

548
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,480
Black Label or Rabbit Hole Red
Label.

549
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,120
And so when we were first sent
these samples by our friend

550
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,640
Austin at the Bourbon Earring
Podcast, it was just like Rabbit

551
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,300
Hole Bourbon.
And then Rabbit Hole Red or

552
00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:14,660
something, it's like what is the
because then I go look it up

553
00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:17,380
online and now they've added
these names like Cave Hill and

554
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:20,740
High Gold and all these things.
So what we're trying today, you

555
00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:24,940
may know it as just Rabbit Hill,
Rabbit Hole Black Label.

556
00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:31,540
This is a four grain bourbon,
70% corn, 10% malted wheat, 10%

557
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:34,820
honey, malted barley, 10% malted
barley.

558
00:30:35,260 --> 00:30:37,820
So I mean two of the grains are
barley but they're malted in

559
00:30:37,820 --> 00:30:39,380
different ways.
So they count them as separate

560
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:41,570
things.
I'm pretty pumped to try this,

561
00:30:41,570 --> 00:30:44,450
Brad.
It's a high barley mash bill,

562
00:30:44,530 --> 00:30:47,450
much more barley than there is
wheat in this, and no rye.

563
00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:51,170
Yeah, it sounds absolutely
delicious.

564
00:30:51,170 --> 00:30:54,970
I will say, without it being an
age statement as a Kentucky

565
00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:56,890
straight bourbon whiskey,
doesn't that doesn't that mean

566
00:30:56,890 --> 00:30:58,330
it has to be at least four
years?

567
00:30:58,330 --> 00:31:00,810
At least four years old to not
carry an age statement.

568
00:31:00,810 --> 00:31:03,290
So that means that the youngest
whiskey in this blend is at

569
00:31:03,290 --> 00:31:05,930
least four years of age.
They have a big thing on their

570
00:31:05,930 --> 00:31:08,930
website that they say this is an
extreme small batch.

571
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,400
Never, never more than 15
barrels in each batch, which I

572
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,880
really like that, you know, that
does seem small enough that it

573
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,520
seems like a legitimate small
batch and not whatever the hell,

574
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,280
you know, wild turkeys trying to
sell us or.

575
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,880
We have 200 and 5300 barrel
blend.

576
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,320
All right, so this is coming in
at 95 proof, or 47.5% A/B V

577
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,560
Let's dive in, man.
What are you picking up on the

578
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,960
nose?
The nose is really beautiful.

579
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,160
It's got some nice caramel and
vanilla.

580
00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:42,540
There's toasted marshmallow,
some strawberry, and almost at

581
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:46,300
the end I found myself thinking
about like Cream of Wheat, but

582
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:50,860
not bad.
Like like a really nice sugary

583
00:31:50,860 --> 00:31:54,860
Cream of Wheat.
I I liked it a lot, Bob.

584
00:31:54,860 --> 00:31:57,540
I gave it an 8 out of 10.
I like this a lot too.

585
00:31:57,540 --> 00:32:00,780
It's very bright on the nose.
I get a lot of like almond

586
00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:02,940
extract on this, almost like an
almond cake.

587
00:32:03,470 --> 00:32:06,470
But it goes along with all those
notes you were talking about,

588
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:08,910
lots of vanilla on this.
And then I get quite a bit of

589
00:32:08,910 --> 00:32:11,030
blueberry, which is something I
don't usually get.

590
00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:14,110
And I'm not talking like
blueberry syrup or something.

591
00:32:14,110 --> 00:32:17,110
It's just fresh picked.
Like when you go to wash them

592
00:32:17,150 --> 00:32:19,670
before you eat them, like, it's
just, man, it's really, really

593
00:32:19,670 --> 00:32:22,030
nice.
And then I get just a slight,

594
00:32:22,110 --> 00:32:24,670
the slightest hint of like,
brininess on this.

595
00:32:24,670 --> 00:32:27,870
There's just a little bit of a
salty thing going on here too.

596
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,040
I'm excited to see how that
translates to the taste, but the

597
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,640
the nose is off the charts man,
really good.

598
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,480
I'm going to give it an 8 1/2.
Yeah, the pallet is matches the

599
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,280
nose perfectly for me.
It it turned into a little bit

600
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:48,160
more of a floral honey agave
type of direction along with

601
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,240
some caramel that you got on the
nose and then it almost got a

602
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,480
little bit minty for me at the
end like a like a sweet mint and

603
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,350
I.
Absolutely love this, Bob.

604
00:32:58,350 --> 00:33:02,350
I give it an 8 1/2 out of 10.
This is definitely not an

605
00:33:02,390 --> 00:33:06,270
unsweet whiskey, but the the
sweetness that we normally get

606
00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:10,270
on weeded bourbons is not the
dominant flavor here.

607
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:12,950
It's really nice and I I think I
still am getting some of that

608
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:14,630
blueberry.
It's like almost like a dark

609
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:17,310
fruit underlying it.
You might be able to pick it up

610
00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:19,790
as black cherry.
You might pick it up as like a

611
00:33:19,790 --> 00:33:21,470
Raisin.
For me, it's coming across as

612
00:33:21,470 --> 00:33:25,460
blueberry right now.
There's a lot of vanilla on it

613
00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:29,260
as well and then it gets really
heavily like char flavor for me.

614
00:33:29,420 --> 00:33:31,620
I really like it and I think
that might be the barley coming

615
00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:34,900
through a little bit.
But the combo of that kind of

616
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:40,060
really dark char with some
really nice dark fruit is super

617
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,020
unique.
This is not a flavor profile we

618
00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:43,260
get on many bourbons.
Brad.

619
00:33:43,260 --> 00:33:44,700
I'm going to give it an 8 out of
10.

620
00:33:46,170 --> 00:33:47,570
Yeah.
And then as we get into the

621
00:33:47,570 --> 00:33:50,890
finish, I think that there's
like everything you want on a

622
00:33:50,890 --> 00:33:53,250
finish is here.
It's a little bit oaky.

623
00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:57,050
The mint keeps coming through
for me and then the the Cream of

624
00:33:57,050 --> 00:34:00,850
Wheat almost kind of blends with
some of the fruity notes and

625
00:34:01,130 --> 00:34:04,530
almost turns into like an orange
creamsicle flavor for me on the

626
00:34:04,530 --> 00:34:06,290
finish.
I really liked it.

627
00:34:06,650 --> 00:34:08,690
Again, I'll, I'll give it an 8
out of 10.

628
00:34:09,409 --> 00:34:11,850
Yeah, I think the finish is just
more of the same from the

629
00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:14,610
palette, which is really nice.
Like it's it's it's nice

630
00:34:14,610 --> 00:34:17,260
sometimes.
When you don't have to give a

631
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:19,659
whole new set of notes on
something and it's just super

632
00:34:19,659 --> 00:34:23,460
consistent, it's the same notes
of like really dark blueberry,

633
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:26,580
almost a blueberry compote, dark
cherry for me.

634
00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:31,260
And then that that barrel char
mixed with a little bit of that

635
00:34:31,260 --> 00:34:34,500
kind of light effervescence that
we get from weeded bourbons,

636
00:34:34,780 --> 00:34:38,179
lots of vanilla, that caramel
and brown sugar finally come out

637
00:34:38,179 --> 00:34:40,340
on the end.
This is really nice.

638
00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:42,900
I will say this Brad, I don't
know if this is like.

639
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,920
An intro to bourbon.
Bourbon.

640
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,360
You know what I mean?
This is like A, it's more

641
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,920
complex than most bourbons.
I would offer someone who's just

642
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,560
starting out.
But B, it seems outside the norm

643
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,640
of weeded bourbon enough that I
wouldn't like.

644
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,440
If you put this in the lineup
with like Rebel and Weller and

645
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,680
Maker's Mark, I think this is
the one that would be like the

646
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,640
outlier of the group.
Flavorwise, it's really, really

647
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,040
good.
I just think that I'm glad we

648
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,080
waited until now to try it,
because.

649
00:35:13,620 --> 00:35:16,580
It.
Defied my expectations so much.

650
00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:20,340
I'm going to give it an 8 on the
finish and I'm also going to

651
00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:24,780
give it an 8 1/2 on the balance.
See, I think balance is actually

652
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:27,220
where this stands out.
I think that there's enough

653
00:35:27,220 --> 00:35:34,860
complexity here with really nice
balance of flavors that move

654
00:35:34,860 --> 00:35:38,260
through the nose to the taste to
the finish really, really well.

655
00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:40,100
I give it a nine and a half on
balance by.

656
00:35:41,570 --> 00:35:45,010
And then when we get to value in
the state of Ohio, you can get

657
00:35:45,010 --> 00:35:49,570
this 750 milliliter bottle for
$60.00.

658
00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:55,810
And honestly I think that that's
a pretty good value like this

659
00:35:55,810 --> 00:35:59,890
across the board is like a B
plus whiskey.

660
00:36:00,330 --> 00:36:04,330
And so I I think that $60.00 is
kind of right on par for where

661
00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:06,210
it should go.
As far as just the juice that's

662
00:36:06,210 --> 00:36:08,410
in the bottle, I give it an 8
out of 10.

663
00:36:08,410 --> 00:36:11,990
Yeah, I I will say that.
Again, we we always come back to

664
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:15,070
this thing of like Brad scores
his value score based on like

665
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:18,310
does the taste of the product
justify the price?

666
00:36:18,750 --> 00:36:21,310
And I always come at it a little
bit more from like man, it's a

667
00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:23,790
good thing this tastes good
because I think this is kind of

668
00:36:23,790 --> 00:36:26,350
pricey for a four year bourbon,
you know what I'm saying?

669
00:36:26,350 --> 00:36:30,030
Like Rabbit Hole always prices
their stuff kind of in that

670
00:36:30,030 --> 00:36:34,030
premium pricing range and the
last Rabbit hole we had we liked

671
00:36:34,070 --> 00:36:37,150
but we didn't love it and I
think at $60.00 that one was a

672
00:36:37,150 --> 00:36:40,310
pretty low value.
This is the same kind of

673
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:42,190
principle.
It's a four year bourbon.

674
00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:46,510
You could get Rebel for $20 or
you get this for $60.00.

675
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:50,950
I think that it's slightly
overpriced, but I am swayed to

676
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:53,390
give it a better score because
the juice is really, really

677
00:36:53,390 --> 00:36:56,270
good.
I think I'll still give this a 7

678
00:36:56,270 --> 00:37:01,630
out of 10 on value, but that is
with the caveat that like I'm

679
00:37:01,630 --> 00:37:05,030
scoring at that high because the
product is good, not because the

680
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:08,000
production.
Mandates that this needs to be

681
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,520
$60.00.
Does that make sense?

682
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,560
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.

683
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,840
So for me, at the end of the
day, I am coming out to a a

684
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,000
pretty high score here, Bob.
I'm at a 42 out of 50.

685
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,720
I am at a 40 out of 50, which
takes us to a very easy to

686
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:27,200
average 41 out of 50 or an 82
out of 100.

687
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,720
This is our highest scoring
whiskey in a little while, Brad.

688
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,520
It's nice to have one that we
can pretty heartily recommend

689
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,210
here.
Yeah, this is a very obvious

690
00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:38,850
whiskey that you should go try.
I think it's worth getting a

691
00:37:38,850 --> 00:37:41,050
sample at the bar.
I think it's worth getting a

692
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:43,970
bottle.
So also, it's a really beautiful

693
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:46,490
bottle.
So yeah, add it to add it to

694
00:37:46,490 --> 00:37:49,490
your liquor shelf.
This is an easy recommend from

695
00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:52,010
both Bob and I.
Now I am like the If you're the

696
00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:55,330
resident rye fan on this
podcast, I feel like I can

697
00:37:55,330 --> 00:37:59,010
pretty confidently say I'm the
resident weeded bourbon guy.

698
00:37:59,290 --> 00:38:01,410
Like this is just this is my
favorite kind of bourbon.

699
00:38:01,950 --> 00:38:05,470
Which would you agree with me
that this is probably the most

700
00:38:05,470 --> 00:38:09,710
unique tasting weeded bourbon
we've ever had, just in terms of

701
00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:12,910
being outside the norm?
Yeah, 100%.

702
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:16,350
This one has some really
interesting flavors for me.

703
00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:20,310
It was that mintiness that like
really turned me on to this

704
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:22,910
whiskey and I I just enjoyed it
a lot.

705
00:38:23,310 --> 00:38:25,470
Me too, man.
All right, so we're above the 40

706
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:27,190
mark once again.
Go buy it.

707
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:29,150
Go try it.
Brad, Let's get back into

708
00:38:29,150 --> 00:38:30,870
talking about Memento.
What do you say?

709
00:38:31,450 --> 00:38:38,290
Let's get to it.
All right, everybody.

710
00:38:38,290 --> 00:38:41,410
That was Rabbit Hole Cave Hill
Bourbon.

711
00:38:41,530 --> 00:38:44,530
A whiskey worth going down the
rabbit hole for Bob.

712
00:38:44,530 --> 00:38:47,450
I will say we have climbed back
out of the rabbit hole.

713
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:50,050
Brad and I can't wait to dive
back in again.

714
00:38:51,810 --> 00:38:54,410
Nailed it.
You know what rabbit hole I like

715
00:38:54,410 --> 00:38:57,450
going down every week, Bob?
I think I do.

716
00:38:57,450 --> 00:38:59,370
Brad, Is it 2 facts in a
falsehood?

717
00:38:59,970 --> 00:39:02,730
Canada's favorite segment 2
facts and a falsehood.

718
00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:08,210
Brad.
Is gonna try to stumpy ball. 2

719
00:39:08,970 --> 00:39:14,490
are right and what is wrong?
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts

720
00:39:14,490 --> 00:39:17,570
and a Falsehood is the part of
the podcast where Brad presents

721
00:39:17,570 --> 00:39:21,530
three items to me as fact about
the making of this movie, one of

722
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:25,290
which is a lie, and I have to
figure out which one that is.

723
00:39:26,050 --> 00:39:28,210
Brad, I don't remember what I'm
sitting at on the season.

724
00:39:28,210 --> 00:39:31,760
I think I'm like.
A game under 500, like I'm still

725
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,000
hanging around in the Division.
Yeah, but I'm.

726
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,240
Like I'm like in 3rd or 4th
place in the Wild Card race, you

727
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,880
know?
If I if I had to guess, I'm

728
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,800
pretty sure you are six and
seven right now.

729
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,440
We'll say six and seven.
That sounds good.

730
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,560
Yeah, you're doing great, man.
I'm proud of you.

731
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,680
You're giving it the old college
try.

732
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,840
It's a little demeaning, but
that's fine, I'll take it.

733
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,960
Hey, that's about the best
you'll get for me.

734
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,690
Fact #1.
Initially, Brad Pitt showed

735
00:39:57,730 --> 00:40:01,170
interest in playing the role of
Leonard but was not able to do

736
00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:03,610
to other commitments once he
passed on the role.

737
00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:06,370
Christopher Nolan did not
consider any other Quote a List

738
00:40:06,370 --> 00:40:09,650
actors because he wanted to have
the ability to spread his budget

739
00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:14,130
more evenly among the cast.
Fact #2, Christopher and

740
00:40:14,130 --> 00:40:17,450
Jonathan Nolan were turned down
by 12 different studios before

741
00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:21,330
New Market Films picked them up.
Momento was their first film and

742
00:40:21,330 --> 00:40:24,210
it's critical success helped
them succeed as a film

743
00:40:24,210 --> 00:40:27,140
distribution company.
Fact #3.

744
00:40:27,140 --> 00:40:29,660
Christopher Nolan's screenplay
was based on his brother

745
00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:31,980
Jonathan Nolan's story Memento
Mori.

746
00:40:32,260 --> 00:40:35,340
However, the screenplay is still
considered original rather than

747
00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:39,020
adapted because Jonathan's story
was not published until after

748
00:40:39,020 --> 00:40:44,820
the film was completed.
I think #2 is the falsehood, but

749
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:47,740
I'm going to, I'm going to vamp
a little bit so we get some

750
00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:51,380
quality content out of this.
Brent, I read earlier that I,

751
00:40:51,780 --> 00:40:54,060
Brad Pitt had been considered
for this role, that he had a

752
00:40:54,060 --> 00:40:56,640
really busy schedule.
And I found that very funny and

753
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,840
I was going to bring it up at
some point on this episode

754
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,800
because you and I had said at
multiple points this would have

755
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,600
been a great Brad Pitt role.
And the stylings of of Guy

756
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,880
Pierce look very similar to Brad
Pitt in Fight Club, from the

757
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,320
bleached spiked hair to the the
kind of wiry frame.

758
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,280
I think it's really funny that
the suit that Guy Pierce wears

759
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,320
in this movie is really similar
to the suit that Brad Pitt then

760
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,520
wears the next year in Ocean's
11.

761
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:25,420
So I could very easily see Brad
Pitt in this.

762
00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:29,020
I think one's true.
I also think 3 is true because I

763
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:31,940
know that this was based on on
Jonathan's short story.

764
00:41:32,220 --> 00:41:35,020
I know this movie was nominated
for a screenplay Oscar, but I

765
00:41:35,020 --> 00:41:37,700
don't remember if it was
original or adapted.

766
00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:41,260
So you might be able to get me
there, but that sounds very

767
00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:45,500
true, so I'm going to go ahead
and say two is the falsehood.

768
00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:49,750
Bob, you are now seven and seven
on the season.

769
00:41:50,190 --> 00:41:52,430
Congratulations.
Look at you coming back up to

770
00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:54,070
500.
Thank you, Brad Pitt.

771
00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:59,310
I'd like to thank Brad Pitt for
not being in this movie so that

772
00:41:59,310 --> 00:42:00,790
I could learn the trivia about
him.

773
00:42:01,430 --> 00:42:03,750
Dude, the other person I was
thinking about was Edward

774
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:06,790
Norton, which, you know,
obviously like the Fight Club

775
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:11,710
duo, but I I feel like Edward
Norton could have pulled this

776
00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:14,930
role off better than Guy Pearce.
I've thought about this because

777
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:17,290
he told me this the other night,
and I don't think I agree

778
00:42:17,290 --> 00:42:18,890
anymore.
I think Ever Norton would have

779
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:22,970
brought too much kind of nervous
energy to this movie, whereas

780
00:42:22,970 --> 00:42:27,290
the kind of like detached, cool,
calm, collected version of Guy

781
00:42:27,290 --> 00:42:29,530
Pearce.
You know, I was reading

782
00:42:29,530 --> 00:42:32,330
something Nolan said about him
and why he loved Guy Pearce so

783
00:42:32,330 --> 00:42:34,730
much in this movie.
And he talked about Leonard's

784
00:42:34,730 --> 00:42:38,450
optimism and how if this movie
was laid out chronologically, it

785
00:42:38,450 --> 00:42:41,570
would suck because it's just not
told that way, but also because.

786
00:42:42,050 --> 00:42:44,850
You have to keep buying into the
fact that this guy wakes up

787
00:42:44,850 --> 00:42:49,810
every day with this blank
expression on his face and and

788
00:42:49,810 --> 00:42:52,050
motivated by optimism like a
puppy dog.

789
00:42:52,450 --> 00:42:54,810
And I think you really do get
that in a lot of these scenes.

790
00:42:54,810 --> 00:42:57,330
I kind of commented that to you
as we were watching it that

791
00:42:57,610 --> 00:43:01,450
there is a sort of earnestness
to him as a character even

792
00:43:01,450 --> 00:43:03,970
before you find out some of the
shady stuff he did at the end of

793
00:43:03,970 --> 00:43:07,730
the movie that the version who
doesn't remember that, you know.

794
00:43:08,170 --> 00:43:11,170
He goes into the world very
naive, not too differently than

795
00:43:11,170 --> 00:43:13,530
the tramp that we've been
watching for the last four

796
00:43:13,530 --> 00:43:15,370
weeks, Brad.
Look at you.

797
00:43:15,570 --> 00:43:18,690
Bob I just.
I think the guy Pierce pulls

798
00:43:18,690 --> 00:43:21,570
that part of the role off better
than most people could,

799
00:43:21,610 --> 00:43:26,250
especially in the early 2000s.
Yeah, I I mean, I I think that

800
00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:29,530
there is an element of that's of
that that is true.

801
00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:33,530
I think my struggle is the idea
of him as a optimistic puppy dog

802
00:43:33,930 --> 00:43:37,170
who has tattoo a tattoo on his
body.

803
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,280
That says John G raped and
killed my wife.

804
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,080
OK, well I will say I I ad
libbed the puppy dog part of it.

805
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,280
But I am with Chris Nolan on his
optimism comment.

806
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,320
Yes I am.
I agree that most dogs would not

807
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,320
tattoo that on themselves.
It's a very grim optimism at the

808
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,680
very least, like I might not
have been able to save my wife.

809
00:44:00,140 --> 00:44:01,940
But I'll get the bastard who did
it.

810
00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:06,100
But I think the naivete and the
like, the trusting of people

811
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:09,020
that he probably shouldn't be
trusting of and that as an

812
00:44:09,020 --> 00:44:13,420
audience member, we have a sort
of natural wariness towards.

813
00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:16,580
I think that Pierce pulls that
off really well.

814
00:44:16,580 --> 00:44:18,260
He puts himself in harm's way a
lot.

815
00:44:18,740 --> 00:44:21,660
And you as an audience member,
even though you're trying to

816
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:23,820
figure out this mystery
alongside him, you don't want to

817
00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:25,620
see him get hurt.
And so it really does.

818
00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:28,780
It does a great job of making
him the protagonist of the

819
00:44:28,780 --> 00:44:33,900
movie.
And not simply the plot engine

820
00:44:33,900 --> 00:44:37,180
of the movie.
Yeah, I I think the other thing

821
00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:41,300
is that Nolan leans into kind of
the horror movie trope of like,

822
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:44,700
why are they going into the
basement rather than the the

823
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:48,780
running car outside in the sense
that like as an audience member,

824
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:51,180
you just keep asking yourself,
why is he trusting her?

825
00:44:51,180 --> 00:44:52,820
Why is he trusting him?
Like what?

826
00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:55,420
Like why are you doing the
things that you're doing and

827
00:44:55,420 --> 00:44:57,710
yet?
It like works for the movie

828
00:44:57,710 --> 00:45:00,790
because it keeps you engaged as
a viewer where you keep asking

829
00:45:00,790 --> 00:45:04,430
yourself, like, why is he doing
the things that he's doing and

830
00:45:04,510 --> 00:45:07,630
and and you you're trying to
learn about him as a character

831
00:45:07,630 --> 00:45:10,270
and and you get to the point
where you realize he has this

832
00:45:10,270 --> 00:45:14,630
grim optimism of like, I'm going
to do whatever it takes to to

833
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:18,350
solve the murder of my wife.
All right.

834
00:45:18,350 --> 00:45:21,150
Brad, is there anything else
about the movie itself you want

835
00:45:21,150 --> 00:45:24,110
to talk about?
I have like a fun closing

836
00:45:24,110 --> 00:45:27,500
segment for us, but.
Is there anything within the

837
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:30,620
movie itself, the direction, the
cinematography, anything that

838
00:45:30,620 --> 00:45:32,180
you want to make sure we talk
about first?

839
00:45:33,740 --> 00:45:39,660
I really like Stephen Tobolowsky
and Harriet Harris as Mr. and

840
00:45:39,660 --> 00:45:41,220
Mrs. Jancus.
Yeah, they were excellent.

841
00:45:41,660 --> 00:45:44,700
Like the those were probably
some of my favorite parts of the

842
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:48,780
film when he's like explaining
the story of of Sammy Jancus.

843
00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:52,460
Yeah, cool.
Good.

844
00:45:52,460 --> 00:45:54,690
Good observation, man.
Nailed it.

845
00:45:54,770 --> 00:45:58,770
Thanks for the great, great, you
know, little kick back there.

846
00:45:58,770 --> 00:46:00,850
I love the way we have dialogue,
Bob.

847
00:46:00,850 --> 00:46:02,330
It's a lot of fun.
Yeah, well, you've been

848
00:46:02,330 --> 00:46:04,890
criticizing dialogue this whole
episode, so I'm trying to

849
00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:08,330
eliminate any between us here.
I mean, if I wanted to do

850
00:46:08,330 --> 00:46:12,090
dialogue the way Guy Pierce
talks on the phone, I would go,

851
00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:15,250
well, First off, I would wait
like 3 seconds after you talk

852
00:46:15,250 --> 00:46:18,370
and then I would go, wow, yeah,
Bob.

853
00:46:19,150 --> 00:46:20,910
That's what I think about it
too.

854
00:46:21,070 --> 00:46:22,630
Shut up, dude.
It's not that bad.

855
00:46:24,510 --> 00:46:27,150
It's pretty rough, man.
OK, here's my question for you,

856
00:46:27,150 --> 00:46:28,390
Brad.
I don't know if this is a fun

857
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:31,990
segment, but the more I think
about this movie, the more that

858
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:36,870
it really puts an incriminating
light on another movie that I

859
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:39,190
really, really love.
And that movie is Martin

860
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:43,670
Scorsese's Shutter Island,
because they are the same movie,

861
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:47,910
like, like every single thing
about the plot of both movies.

862
00:46:48,310 --> 00:46:52,110
Is the same, and I think that's
why Shutter Island received such

863
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:54,710
kind of lukewarm reviews when it
was first released.

864
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:57,310
I think critics are coming
around to it now more because of

865
00:46:57,310 --> 00:46:59,510
what Scorsese did than anything
in the script.

866
00:47:00,070 --> 00:47:03,990
But that was a book written by
Dennis Lehane, the guy that also

867
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:09,190
wrote Gone Baby Gone and Mystic
River, and I love all of those

868
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:12,470
movies.
But I got to say, the guy really

869
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:15,070
just ripped off Memento.
I don't think that Shutter

870
00:47:15,070 --> 00:47:17,550
Island was written prior to
Memento coming out.

871
00:47:17,550 --> 00:47:21,190
I'll have to look at the release
date, but in any case, it is a

872
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:24,910
huge coincidence that those
movies both end up being about a

873
00:47:24,910 --> 00:47:29,150
guy with a dead wife who is
trying to find her killer, who

874
00:47:29,150 --> 00:47:32,670
goes into these shady
environments and is then told

875
00:47:32,670 --> 00:47:35,990
that you know, he was the cause
of the whole thing.

876
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:38,270
You find out at the end of both
movies.

877
00:47:38,270 --> 00:47:42,110
Spoiler alert, I guess.
That they are both the one that

878
00:47:42,110 --> 00:47:45,790
killed their own wife and they
could not live with the grief.

879
00:47:45,830 --> 00:47:49,430
And so they invented kind of
alter egos for themselves.

880
00:47:49,430 --> 00:47:53,870
And in this movie it's this, you
know, this John G character in

881
00:47:54,350 --> 00:47:56,710
Shutter Island.
It was what's the guy's name

882
00:47:56,710 --> 00:47:59,590
that they're searching for
latest?

883
00:48:00,150 --> 00:48:01,990
He's looking for a guy named
latest in that movie.

884
00:48:01,990 --> 00:48:04,750
And then he finds out that his
name is actually Edward latest,

885
00:48:04,750 --> 00:48:06,270
right?
His name's Teddy in the movie.

886
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:09,670
There's a Teddy in this movie.
I don't know.

887
00:48:09,950 --> 00:48:13,110
If I should have less respect
for Shutter Island, and I'm

888
00:48:13,110 --> 00:48:16,390
wondering what your thoughts are
because I know that we both

889
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:19,070
mentioned Shutter Island at one
point while we were watching

890
00:48:19,070 --> 00:48:22,470
Memento.
Yeah, I I don't know if I would

891
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:25,950
say Shutter Island and Memento
are like as much of A Onetoone

892
00:48:25,950 --> 00:48:30,190
comparison for me.
Shutter Island feels much, much

893
00:48:30,190 --> 00:48:35,550
more like A Beautiful Mind in in
like the detective nature of it,

894
00:48:35,550 --> 00:48:38,650
like this one.
Doesn't really feel like a

895
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:43,930
detective movie to me, which I I
know sounds weird, but it's so

896
00:48:45,170 --> 00:48:49,330
strange, the chronology of it,
that you quickly realize this

897
00:48:49,330 --> 00:48:52,570
isn't about him.
Like, figuring it out.

898
00:48:52,570 --> 00:48:56,490
It's about Nolan being cool as a
director and like, doing the

899
00:48:56,490 --> 00:48:58,730
movie backwards.
OK, so take wait.

900
00:48:58,730 --> 00:49:01,810
Take the genre out of it though,
and even to some extent the

901
00:49:01,810 --> 00:49:03,930
structure.
Like if you were doing a Brad

902
00:49:03,930 --> 00:49:07,200
explains.
On the plot of Shutter Island

903
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,840
and a Brad explains on this
movie, which you just did.

904
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,880
And you laid this movie out
chronologically when you did

905
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,800
your Brad explains like you got
to at least admit that almost

906
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,320
beat for beat.
These movies follow the exact

907
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:24,360
same story.
I don't know if they do that.

908
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,160
Like for me, I I don't know.
I don't think that Shutter

909
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,680
Island and this film remind me
of them a lot at all.

910
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:35,560
Yeah, I I don't feel like you're
not.

911
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:37,880
To some extent.
I don't know that you're

912
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,080
answering my question.
Like if you took the plot of

913
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,040
Forrest Gump and made it a
horror movie, like they still

914
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,960
have the same plot.
You know what I'm saying?

915
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,000
Like it's.
It's memento if you turn Forrest

916
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,680
Gump into a horror film.
Is that what you're saying?

917
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:55,240
No, I'm saying that you can take
any movie and replicate the plot

918
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:58,360
and make it a different genre,
but that doesn't negate the fact

919
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,440
that they still follow the same
beats like.

920
00:50:01,050 --> 00:50:04,090
These movies follow the exact
same story beats, and there are,

921
00:50:04,290 --> 00:50:07,490
I think, too many similarities
between them to not at least

922
00:50:07,490 --> 00:50:10,250
confront that head on.
And I was going to, you know, I

923
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:12,770
thought that you'd be more
cooperative with this segment.

924
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:14,370
This has been a huge flop for
me, but.

925
00:50:14,730 --> 00:50:16,650
I'm going to.
I'm going to give you one last

926
00:50:16,650 --> 00:50:19,890
push back, Bob.
Any detective movie has the same

927
00:50:19,890 --> 00:50:21,730
beats.
He did it.

928
00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:24,210
Oh, wait, no, he didn't.
Oh, wait, it was her.

929
00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:25,570
Oh, wait, it wasn't.
Oh, wait.

930
00:50:25,570 --> 00:50:27,490
Now there's the twist.
This is who actually did it.

931
00:50:28,050 --> 00:50:31,490
You pissed me off so much, dude.
Like, literally, you're not even

932
00:50:31,490 --> 00:50:33,810
engaging with what I'm saying I
was going to be.

933
00:50:33,970 --> 00:50:36,890
With what you're saying, I
literally just, I'm like, yeah,

934
00:50:37,370 --> 00:50:39,370
almost all detective movies have
the same beats.

935
00:50:39,410 --> 00:50:40,450
OK, but it.
Doesn't make me.

936
00:50:40,490 --> 00:50:43,810
Like most detective movies, that
they're, most detective movies

937
00:50:43,810 --> 00:50:46,450
don't have anything to do with
the hero getting convenient

938
00:50:46,450 --> 00:50:50,130
amnesia after murdering his own
wife and the big reveal being

939
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:51,610
that he murdered.
His own wife and then

940
00:50:51,610 --> 00:50:55,330
constructed an identity for
himself to not deal with the

941
00:50:55,330 --> 00:50:57,210
grief.
Like there are very few movies

942
00:50:57,490 --> 00:51:01,090
where that is the big reveal.
Maybe.

943
00:51:01,690 --> 00:51:02,770
Sure.
All right.

944
00:51:03,610 --> 00:51:05,410
God bless it.
I was going to come in at the

945
00:51:05,410 --> 00:51:08,370
end and be like, well, actually
I you know what I don't have?

946
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:11,330
I haven't lost respect for
Shutter Island because at the

947
00:51:11,330 --> 00:51:15,210
end of the day, I think that if
you're going to blame anybody

948
00:51:15,210 --> 00:51:17,770
for Shutter Island being similar
to this movie, it would be

949
00:51:17,890 --> 00:51:19,570
Dennis Lehane for writing the
story.

950
00:51:20,180 --> 00:51:24,340
But Scorsese directs the hell
out of Shutter Island, and I

951
00:51:24,340 --> 00:51:27,500
think that Shutter Island is a
much better directed movie than

952
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:29,940
Memento is.
And that was going to be my big

953
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:32,860
segue into us doing let's make
it a double in our final scores.

954
00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:36,900
But I guess to try to redeem
this segment, I will say, Brad,

955
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:40,860
do you agree with me that
Scorsese directing Shutter

956
00:51:40,860 --> 00:51:44,860
Island does a better job than
Nolan directing Memento?

957
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:48,330
A million times yet.
OK, well there, that's the

958
00:51:48,770 --> 00:51:50,490
that's the easiest take in the
world.

959
00:51:50,850 --> 00:51:55,490
Shutter Island is way better
directed film, and just a better

960
00:51:55,490 --> 00:51:58,570
movie altogether than than
Memento is.

961
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:01,200
Well then, let's get into.
Let's make it a double.

962
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,680
We're near the end of the
episode, so thanks for listening

963
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,680
to the film and whiskey show.
Let's ever know the film with

964
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,080
this one, even if it's
struggling.

965
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,560
It's a final segment of the day.
Now let's make it a double.

966
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,360
Let's make it a double is the
part of the show where we pick a

967
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,880
movie to pair up with this one
to make the perfect double

968
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,120
feature.
Brad, I'll let you go first

969
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,600
since Shutter Island apparently
is nothing like this movie.

970
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:27,120
So I'll scramble to think of
something else while you give us

971
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,680
your perfect pick.
I'll give you this, man.

972
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,720
I I like Shutter Island way
better than Memento.

973
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:34,200
They just don't remind me of
each other.

974
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,200
I'm going to pick The Truman
Show 1998.

975
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,560
Jim Carrey.
I think that that film has

976
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:48,200
enough in common of a man whose
life isn't anything like what he

977
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,880
thought it was.
And I I think that there's some

978
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,000
good similarities there that
make it the same movie, and we

979
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,000
should probably put down Memento
because of it.

980
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,580
So The Truman Show.
I'm going to go noir with this

981
00:53:00,580 --> 00:53:01,740
one.
I'll go way back to like the

982
00:53:01,740 --> 00:53:03,340
1940s.
I'm going to pick a movie called

983
00:53:03,340 --> 00:53:06,180
DOA, which is a movie about a
guy.

984
00:53:06,180 --> 00:53:09,460
It's a really cool movie, Brad.
It's about a guy who gets

985
00:53:09,460 --> 00:53:12,900
poisoned somehow with some sort
of radioactive something, and he

986
00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:16,060
finds out that he has like 24
hours before he dies and he has

987
00:53:16,060 --> 00:53:19,060
to figure out who poisoned him
before he croaks.

988
00:53:19,340 --> 00:53:22,300
It's a really good movie.
You can't trust anybody.

989
00:53:23,060 --> 00:53:25,060
Motives are always called into
question.

990
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,140
I just we don't do a lot of noir
on this podcast.

991
00:53:28,740 --> 00:53:32,340
And any chance that I get to
plug, like, Really Hard Boiled,

992
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:35,580
Mean Spirited Noir movies, I
will do so.

993
00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:36,900
I'm going to pair it up with
DOA.

994
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:39,660
Brad's going to pair it up with
The Truman Show.

995
00:53:40,140 --> 00:53:44,020
Now Bob, you have to be clear
here because DOA could be

996
00:53:44,020 --> 00:53:48,980
referring to 1980 Eight's Dennis
Quaid Meg Ryan starring film.

997
00:53:48,980 --> 00:53:53,710
That is the remake.
Of the 1949 verse, is it 49 the

998
00:53:53,710 --> 00:53:56,590
original?
49 Yes, Or you could be talking

999
00:53:56,590 --> 00:54:01,990
about 2006, dead or alive.
No, I'm referring to DOA, which

1000
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:04,710
in most parlance refers to dead
on arrival.

1001
00:54:05,070 --> 00:54:11,870
So that's the one I want 49, not
the Dennis Quaid, not the 2649.

1002
00:54:12,530 --> 00:54:14,130
Just just making sure we're
clear here.

1003
00:54:14,130 --> 00:54:15,650
I know we've had some
miscommunication with.

1004
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:18,650
My gosh, you are just full of
sass today Sir.

1005
00:54:19,290 --> 00:54:22,570
Let's get to final scores.
I'll let you go first so that I

1006
00:54:22,570 --> 00:54:24,530
can I can calm my nerves over
here.

1007
00:54:25,210 --> 00:54:31,610
I think that the idea of Memento
is way cooler than the actual

1008
00:54:31,610 --> 00:54:35,930
film Memento.
Like the the idea of it is

1009
00:54:35,930 --> 00:54:41,090
really fascinating and really,
really like draws you in.

1010
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,600
And the final 20 minutes of the
film are like far and away the

1011
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,560
peak that this film has to
offer.

1012
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,200
The rest of it's just okay.
Like and like on the lower end

1013
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,680
of just okay.
I'm going to give it a 7 out of

1014
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,560
10 Bob.
But it was entertaining.

1015
00:54:57,720 --> 00:54:59,880
Like it was fine.
But it I don't think it's a

1016
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:01,480
movie I would ever want to come
back to.

1017
00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:04,910
I'm way higher on this movie
than I thought that I would be.

1018
00:55:05,070 --> 00:55:07,470
I was thinking about giving it
an 8.5.

1019
00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:10,110
I don't think I'm going to go
that high because like I said,

1020
00:55:10,110 --> 00:55:13,030
for a good chunk of the movie I
was like, this is a four, what

1021
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:15,390
the heck, man?
And it got to the ending, and

1022
00:55:15,390 --> 00:55:18,230
the ending was so good that I
have been left with this

1023
00:55:18,270 --> 00:55:21,910
existential question of like,
does a perfect ending cover a

1024
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:26,350
multitude of sins, right?
Like how much does a perfect

1025
00:55:26,350 --> 00:55:30,170
ending improve?
A four out of 10 movie and I

1026
00:55:30,170 --> 00:55:32,210
think by the time the ending
came around, I was at least at

1027
00:55:32,210 --> 00:55:35,090
like a six out of 10.
But this movie has really

1028
00:55:35,090 --> 00:55:38,450
serious flaws with it.
But it is so brilliantly

1029
00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:41,890
constructed and the ending is so
good that I think people are

1030
00:55:41,890 --> 00:55:43,690
willing to forgive a lot with
this movie.

1031
00:55:44,370 --> 00:55:46,690
I'm willing to forgive most of
it, but I think you do have to

1032
00:55:46,690 --> 00:55:48,730
keep in mind that this is not a
perfect film.

1033
00:55:49,450 --> 00:55:52,610
And so I'm going to come out to
an 8 out of 10 way higher than I

1034
00:55:52,610 --> 00:55:55,130
thought that I would be.
And I will say to the film's

1035
00:55:55,130 --> 00:55:57,110
credit.
I've been thinking about it

1036
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:58,990
almost nonstop since we watched
it.

1037
00:55:59,430 --> 00:56:02,390
The problem is that sometimes I
thought about it from the point

1038
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:04,790
of view of, like, does that even
make sense?

1039
00:56:04,830 --> 00:56:09,470
Like, did they only do that one
thing because it's cool to not

1040
00:56:09,470 --> 00:56:12,590
tell the audience that?
Not every thought that I had

1041
00:56:12,590 --> 00:56:14,510
about this movie has been
positive, I guess is what I'll

1042
00:56:14,510 --> 00:56:16,510
say.
But at the end of the day, I've

1043
00:56:16,510 --> 00:56:19,350
been thinking about it, and that
is a largely positive thing to

1044
00:56:19,350 --> 00:56:21,110
say.
So I'm at an 8.

1045
00:56:21,460 --> 00:56:23,900
Brad's at A7.
We are coming out to once again

1046
00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:27,620
a very easy to average 7.5 out
of 10.

1047
00:56:28,220 --> 00:56:30,580
Bob, do you want to know what
movie I've been thinking about

1048
00:56:30,660 --> 00:56:33,620
that I watched like two or three
days after Memento?

1049
00:56:33,860 --> 00:56:36,460
What's that?
Bicycle Thieves?

1050
00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:39,860
Brad, look at you.
Do you like it?

1051
00:56:40,340 --> 00:56:45,260
Big fan, like 9 out of 10?
Absolutely love that movie.

1052
00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:47,780
I don't know if there's ever
been a better film.

1053
00:56:48,330 --> 00:56:51,610
That captures the, like,
hopelessness of being in

1054
00:56:51,610 --> 00:56:55,330
poverty.
So just beautiful.

1055
00:56:55,330 --> 00:57:00,490
Also, we've talked about Haley
Joel Osman in The Sixth Sense is

1056
00:57:00,490 --> 00:57:04,410
the best child performance ever.
Whoever the little kid is who

1057
00:57:04,410 --> 00:57:08,970
plays Bruno might be the cutest
child ever caught on film.

1058
00:57:09,310 --> 00:57:12,030
Brad, I you know, once again, I
don't mean to disparage or

1059
00:57:12,030 --> 00:57:14,950
demean you, but like, what led
to you watching The Bicycle

1060
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:16,830
Thieves?
Because that seems like a movie

1061
00:57:16,830 --> 00:57:19,230
that I would have had to pull
teeth to get you to watch.

1062
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:21,310
Like what?
What made you stumble upon that

1063
00:57:21,310 --> 00:57:24,070
one?
I was.

1064
00:57:24,070 --> 00:57:27,230
I had a week off.
I was up in the Akron area with

1065
00:57:27,550 --> 00:57:31,910
my wife and kiddos and I was
like just looking through HBO

1066
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:34,670
Max.
And they have a Turner Classic

1067
00:57:34,670 --> 00:57:36,430
movie section.
And I was looking for something

1068
00:57:36,430 --> 00:57:38,190
to watch.
And I saw Bicycle Thieves and I

1069
00:57:38,190 --> 00:57:41,310
was like, you know, that like I
I looked back.

1070
00:57:41,310 --> 00:57:44,710
I think it's like #38 on the
most recent sight and sound

1071
00:57:44,710 --> 00:57:47,150
pole.
And a lot of people have it like

1072
00:57:47,150 --> 00:57:50,110
in their top ten.
And I was like, you know, I'm

1073
00:57:50,110 --> 00:57:52,110
going to give it a try.
It it is.

1074
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:54,470
But, you know, it really tips me
into watching it, Bob.

1075
00:57:54,630 --> 00:58:00,230
What's that it's like?
83 minutes and I was like less

1076
00:58:00,230 --> 00:58:03,840
than less than 90 a man.
All right man.

1077
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,040
So we are coming out to a 7.5 on
Memento.

1078
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,120
I would really like to talk
about the bicycle teams with you

1079
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,240
someday, but you got to save it
for the pod, man.

1080
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,800
Can't give it all the way here.
I'm so sorry.

1081
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,320
Let us know what you think about
Memento Brad.

1082
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,240
We are definitely lower than
most people on this movie.

1083
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,920
I think this has around an 8,
either an 8.3 or an 8.4 on IMDb.

1084
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,120
It's definitely in their top
250.

1085
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:27,740
It's dude.
I think it's in their top like

1086
00:58:27,740 --> 00:58:29,620
20-5 or third.
That's crazy.

1087
00:58:31,340 --> 00:58:37,860
It has an 8.4 on IMDb and is.
It's not that good guys.

1088
00:58:38,060 --> 00:58:42,060
I will say that in that group of
movies that are like they hit

1089
00:58:42,660 --> 00:58:44,500
late Gen.
X, early millennials at the

1090
00:58:44,500 --> 00:58:47,420
right time and they were like
cool guy movies, I think this

1091
00:58:47,420 --> 00:58:49,500
might be the best of the bunch.
Like, I think this is a better

1092
00:58:49,500 --> 00:58:52,220
movie than Fight Club, or at
least that it works better for

1093
00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:56,490
me than Fight Club did, but.
I still lump it in with those

1094
00:58:56,490 --> 00:59:00,770
movies the like Boondock,
Saints, Fight Club, Memento,

1095
00:59:01,250 --> 00:59:03,770
even The Matrix to some extent.
But The Matrix is just a way

1096
00:59:03,770 --> 00:59:07,690
better movie than any of these.
I I just, I've never understood

1097
00:59:07,690 --> 00:59:12,250
why we inflate that group of
movies in the cultural like

1098
00:59:12,250 --> 00:59:14,890
consciousness.
Because regardless of the fact

1099
00:59:14,890 --> 00:59:16,250
that I like it better than you
Brad.

1100
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,320
This is not one of the 25 best
films ever made.

1101
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:20,640
What are you people talking
about?

1102
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,840
So I will say I will.
I was wrong.

1103
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,840
I just looked it up.
But I'm going to make you angry

1104
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,880
Bob.
This movie is number 55 on IMDb

1105
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:34,280
at with an 8.4 is at #55 right
in front of In Order Django

1106
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,360
Unchained, Indiana Jones and
Raiders of the Lost, Art and and

1107
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:43,240
Wally all.
All three all better than this.

1108
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,890
Way better films than Memento.
Well, film and Whiskey Nation, I

1109
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think we've given you some fuel.
Do you agree or disagree with us

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00:59:50,730 --> 00:59:52,890
about Memento?
You can find us on our social

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00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:56,650
media accounts, Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, or TikTok

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at.
Filmwhiskey or you can jump onto

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a Discord.
We are on there every single day

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talking to you guys, the fans of
the Film and Whiskey Podcast.

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01:00:05,050 --> 01:00:07,850
So if you want to join the
conversation on Discord, you can

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find a link to it at the end of
every single one of our show

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01:00:10,250 --> 01:00:12,860
notes.
Next week we will be back with a

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very special guest talking about
a movie that I have a

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contentious relationship with
and that is one of Nolan's

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highest regarded films, The
Prestige.

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Join us next week for that, but
until then, I'm Bob Book.

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I'm Brad G.
And we'll see you next time.