Creed / Barrell Seagrass Toasted Rye

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In 2015, director Ryan Coogler
and star Sylvester Stallone gave

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the world a punchy drama that
hopes to reignite an aging

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fanbase.
In 2025, we use any excuse we

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can to try one of our favorite
brands again.

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The film is.
Creed the whiskey is barrel

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seagrass toasted and we'll.
Review them both.

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This is the.
Film and Whiskey podcast.

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Welcome to the Film and Whiskey
podcast, where each week we

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review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

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I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad Gee.

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And this week we are looking at
the 2015 film Creed.

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Brad, we've taken a couple weeks
off from recording.

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We've had life stuff come up.
You've been travelling all

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across the country.
Welcome back to Film and

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Whiskey, Brad.
New job, baby.

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How was the trip?
It was incredible.

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Colorado is awesome.
It's beautiful.

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There's a lot of really great
food there.

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I went to a like an anime
cyberpunk bar called Chiba Bar,

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and I had a Toki Highball, which
is essentially like seltzer

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water with Suntory Toki.
Yeah.

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And ice.
There you go.

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And it's kind.
It's kind of like a whiskey

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beer.
Did you?

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Did you just, did you just learn
what a highball is in, I mean,

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Colorado?
I, I, I know what a highball is.

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It's just, you know, a Toki
highball.

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Yeah, I mean, come on.
It's it's the pinnacle of

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highballs, man.
Exactly.

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Very good, very refreshing.
Drink a little bit of lime on

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the on the top.
Oh yeah, that sounds great man.

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And welcome back to the show.
I'm glad to have you back.

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I had to fly solo for at least
one interview, which Film and

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Whiskey Nation you will be
hearing shortly.

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But Brad, it's time for us to
dive back into season 9.

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Now, if you're new to the
podcast, first of all, welcome

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in on this podcast.
We talk about movies and whiskey

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this season.
What we're doing is we're

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looking at movies from the last
20 years and we're asking the

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question, does this movie
deserve to be considered a

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modern classic?
Now, Creed is an interesting

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one, especially based on our
four criteria, right?

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Is it in the IMDb top 250?
Is it in the letterbox top 250?

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Did it make 100 mil?
Was it nominated for Best

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Picture?
This was definitely checking

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both of the last two boxes.
I don't think it cracks the IMDb

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top 250, but it's become a
pretty beloved sports movie.

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And I think that we've
established, Brad, that when it

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comes to sports movies and their
overall scores on something like

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an IMDb, you kind of have to
grade on a curve.

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It seems like even the most
beloved sports movies only hit

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like a 7.8.
Yeah, it it's wild how it feels

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like the general public of the
United States automatically

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bumps sport movies down by like
1/2 to a whole point from where

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it feels like they should be.
I don't know what.

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Like, is there something about
sports that is just not artistic

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enough for the human soul?
Well, it's got to be artistic

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enough because it got nominated
for Best Picture like it did.

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You know, and, and I the, the
wild thing to me is like, people

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freaking love sports in America.
It's it like we are the

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entertainment hub of the world
for a lot of sports.

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And so I, I, I don't understand.
Yeah, the, the detraction, the

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the, the sports bias that brings
things down a little ways.

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The devaluing, that's what it
is, man.

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We need to we need to appreciate
sports in our movies.

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Shrink, shrink, flation, Bob.
Well, and I say all that to say,

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this is a damn good sports movie
and I I mean that in every facet

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of what that can mean.
It is a good movie that is about

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sports and it is a good sports
movie in that the sports

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featured in the movie are well
executed, well choreographed,

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well shot.
I think the final fight sequence

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in this movie is one of the
better boxing sequences I've

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ever seen in a movie.
Really, really well done film.

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Now, I'm not going to give this
movie A10 out of 10, probably

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not.
But I will say that there's a

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reason this movie has spawned 2
sequels.

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This is its own franchise now,
obviously under the umbrella of

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Rocky, but I think it stands on
its own merits and it all is

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thanks to this this film.
Brett.

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I would actually disagree with
you.

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I don't think it's due to this
film.

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I think it's due to Michael B
Jordan's chiseled ABS.

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You.
Know what's crazy is like we

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just watched Black Panther.
I don't know, was that this

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season?
When did we watch Black Panther?

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No, I think it was last.
Year last year as part of the

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box office year.
Yes, Yep, Yep.

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Yep, and it's so funny to see
him in this movie so people will

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know Michael B Jordan from when
he was a kid.

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He was on the show The Wire.
His first really big role in

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Hollywood was in a film called
Fruitvale Station, which was

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written and directed by Ryan
Coogler.

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One of my favorite movies of the
20 tens.

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And then they both get the bump
from that movie to, hey, why

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don't you come direct and star
in Creed.

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And Michael B Jordan gets
absolutely shredded for this

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movie.
And yet because I've seen Black

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Panther and both of the Creed
sequels, I look back on this

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movie and I'm like oh man, he
looks absolutely scrawny

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compared to how he looked as
Killmonger in Panther.

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Yeah, there's definitely a
difference.

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And I found it amusing at
certain points throughout the

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film when people would compare
him to Apollo Creed.

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I'm like, listen man, Apollo was
probably fighting at like 240.

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Like there is no way 175 LB
Adonis Johnson is going to fit

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into those those boxing trunks.
I do think he looks more slight

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than he probably is because I,
as I'm watching the final fight

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and, you know, they make a point
of having Max Kellerman as the,

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you know, the fight announcer
say pretty boy Ricky is

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definitely taller.
And, you know, I was like, OK,

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at least they're acknowledging
it.

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But Michael B Jordan is listed
online at six O and 175 and

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that's right now.
So if he's that much bigger now,

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first of all, he's not 6 foot.
He's got to be like 5-10 at the

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most.
And he was probably 16165 in

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this movie.
Like right.

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I I, I, I don't see him.
Being 100%.

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There's no way he weighs more
than $1.80.

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When I saw him, it just made me
think of the the video.

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I think it's of Ryan Gosling
talking about his trainer who

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trains all the Hollywood guys
and how they all want to be

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Fight Club Brad Pitt.
And I'm like, Oh yeah, it's,

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it's, it's Fight Club Club, Brad
Pitt.

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Like ripped and like jacked, but
not big.

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He's he's lean.
But then it was like, let's make

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sure the biceps pop a little
bit.

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You know it's the best.
I'm curious, filming Whiskey

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Nation, how much time did you
think you were going to hear

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Michael B Jordan's body
description when you came into

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this episode?
Like like, were you expecting a

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solid 5 minute conversation
about how this man looks in this

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movie?
Now we have to launch into

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something to balance that out.
We'll talk about the male gaze

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for 10 minutes or something,
right?

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The male gaze on Michael.
B Jordan.

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Dang.
All right, Brad, it's time for

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us to break down the plot of
this movie, and in order to do

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that, we have to get to our
first segment of the day, which

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we call, Brad explains.
Brad's going to give us the

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movie plots with only 60 seconds
taken on the clock, so let's go

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ahead and do your take with this
little segment that we call,

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Brad explains.
Brad Explains is the part of the

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show where Brad breaks down the
plot of the film that he has

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just seen, often for the first
time.

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Now Brad, I I know this was your
first time seeing Creed correct?

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No, actually, I have seen this
movie.

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I don't think I saw it in
theaters, but I would have seen

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it pretty soon after it came
out.

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Oh, that's surprising.
Yeah.

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For some reason I thought that
we had talked about this and you

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told me that you hadn't watched
it before.

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So this is what number 2 for
your?

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Number two, yeah, definitely #2
I I haven't seen it since the

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first time.
I remember really liking this

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movie when I saw it in the
theater, and not to give too

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much of my opinion away, I
really like it now.

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I think it's a good movie.
I'm interested to hear how you

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break it down, Brad, because
there's a lot of context to this

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movie being part of the Rocky
franchise, or at least adjacent

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to it.
Will that be enough context to

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fill 60 seconds?
We shall see.

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Brad, go ahead and spoil this
movie for US.

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One minute on the clock and go.
Creed is a film about how the

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former heavyweight champion of
the world, Apollo Creed, got his

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freak on because he had a baby
that was not with his wife.

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The child never knew his father.
His mom passes away, he spends

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time in Group homes, and
eventually Apollo's widowed wife

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takes Adonis, his son in and
raises him as her own child.

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He never gets away from
fighting.

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He leaves a cushy job to train
as a boxer.

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He travels to Philadelphia to
find Sylvester Stallone, who

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plays maybe one of the greatest
sports characters of all time,

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Rocky Balboa.
And they go on a journey of

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fighting one person who's like
pretty good, and then fighting

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the greatest boxer in the world.
And Adonis, the entire time, is

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trying to grow past the idea
that he is a mistake and that he

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only gets things because of his
father's name by taking on a

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fight that he only gets because
of his father's name.

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He.
Loses.

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He does.
He sucks.

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He does lose.
Just like Rocky.

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It.
It's all a mirror image, is it

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not?
It's.

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It it sure is I and Rocky says
it man, like you got to you're

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fighting the man in the mirror,
Bob.

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And then that man is actually
Rocky.

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That man is actually Rocky.
All right, Brad, there's a lot

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of directions we can go.
We could just dive right into

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the actual film itself and the
structure of the movie and the

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the performances.
We could also go the sort of

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like adding context route, which
I think would be really helpful

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because this is for all intents
and purposes, what has come to

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be known as a legacy sequel.
You know, it's, it's no

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different on paper than
something like a Top Gun

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Maverick or a, you know, the,
the new Ghostbusters movies that

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keep coming out that I don't
know who the hell is going to

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see those movies, but they keep
making.

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Star Wars Episode 7.
Yes, and I think that actually

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Star Wars might be a really good
entry point into talking about

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this movie because they come
out, I believe the same year,

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right, 2050.
Bob, you, you know how to put me

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in a good mood.
Let's talk about Disney Star

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Wars.
Yes, they did come out, both in

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2015.
So this is kind of the first

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batch that we're seeing of these
legacy sequels.

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And I think that my overarching
thought on this movie as a

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legacy sequel is that it does a
really good job of incorporating

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the elements it needs to
incorporate from the Rocky

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franchise, but not pushing them
necessarily to the periphery,

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but making sure that they're at
least attempting to allow this

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movie and this franchise to have
its own legs.

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And that's something that, you
know, we talked about this in

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The Force Awakens.
They never fully let those new

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characters be the driving force
of that trilogy.

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And I think that's what
ultimately made it such a messy

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and muddy trilogy is like, is
this just the continuation of

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Luke, Leia and Han?
Or is it about these new

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characters?
And I think this movie does a

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much better job striking that
balance.

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Bob, you're right.
We should talk extensively about

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the foibles and flaws of the
Disney Star Horse.

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Trailer Let's do it.
We haven't.

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We've never done.
We have never fully

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interrogated.
I know this is the subject we

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haven't brought up before.
We should probably dive in.

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I think that this movie takes
Rocky, puts him in Michael B

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Jordan's shoes as like a new
coat of paint and like there's

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00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,160
not.
For me, there's no discernible

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00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:46,160
difference between Rocky from
the 1970s and Michael B Jordan

230
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:51,200
Adonis Johnson slash Creed in
the 2015.

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00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,640
Like the they have all of the
same problems.

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The like, the only thing
different about the character is

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00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,440
that Michael B Jordan makes more
expressive faces.

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00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,320
Do you think that this movie
then would be better if they

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00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,760
just rebooted Rocky with Michael
B Jordan as Rocky Balboa or

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00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,200
whatever they want to make his
last name?

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00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,800
No, I, I like the idea of like,
I, I actually think the story of

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this film is really well done in
the conceptual stage.

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00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,560
It's in the actual execution of
it that I just feel like there's

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00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,160
not enough oomph behind the
whole thing.

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00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,440
That and I don't know if it's
the acting performances or the

242
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,000
story beats or there's just not
enough time, you know, because

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00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,680
this, this movie credits roll at
like 2O four, I want to say.

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00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,840
So yeah, it's only a little over
two hours, not too long for a

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00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,280
movie.
I I just struggle that we don't

246
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,800
really get enough time to form
deep emotional attachments with

247
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,360
any of the characters in a way
that makes me emotional at the

248
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,160
end of it.
Like I'm emotionally tied to

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00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,680
Rocky.
I don't like seeing him get

250
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:12,160
cancer because it's Rocky
Balboa, but the mom is there

251
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,120
rescuing him from foster care
and then telling him not to

252
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,760
fight and then she disappears
until the final fight.

253
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,560
And the girlfriend is like cute
and cool and they kind of have a

254
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,400
thing.
But there's nothing about their

255
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,040
relationship that makes me
believe it's more than just a

256
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,680
made for screen.
They fall in love really fast

257
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:41,120
because it's a movie versus an
actual well developed

258
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,280
relationship that has depth and
meaning.

259
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,800
And so you know what?
When he thinks about Rocky, I'm

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00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,960
like, yeah, OK, there's some
stuff there, but even that just

261
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,560
there, there's not enough there.
Bob.

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00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,440
I want more because I do think
it's a good foundation for a

263
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,360
good story.
Yeah, I so I think the two

264
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,280
things can be true at once.
I think that Ryan Coogler is a

265
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,640
really good director and a good
movie maker.

266
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,600
And I also think that this movie
has some pretty significant

267
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:16,440
flaws with the screenplay, that
the background of the Rocky

268
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,520
franchise does a lot of heavy
lifting and kind of papers over

269
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,600
some of those flaws.
But Coogler doesn't necessarily

270
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,880
deserve the accolades for those
things, even though I think

271
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,320
because if you're just watching
this movie, like you're not

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00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,600
thinking about what's the flaws
in the screenplay, right?

273
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,720
So you have this emotional
attachment from 5-6 prior Rocky

274
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,200
movies to this that are doing a
lot of heavy lifting, that are

275
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,200
papering over a lot of things in
the script.

276
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,200
And I think reflexively people
give Coogler credit for that,

277
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:49,560
and he shouldn't get credit for
that.

278
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,760
He should get credit for how
well done the last 30-40 minutes

279
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,480
of this movie are from a
filmmaking perspective.

280
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,680
But I think you're right, man,
especially in the first half of

281
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,960
this movie, the only character
that you really have a profound

282
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,000
connection to is Rocky.
And it's not because of how he's

283
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,960
necessarily presented in this
movie.

284
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,200
It's because it's like, oh man,
it's my old friend Rocky.

285
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,440
Like the heavy lifting is being
done by your history with that

286
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,800
character.
And every character in this

287
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,080
movie, I think is not.
They're kind of given short

288
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,800
shrift in terms of their own
character development, their

289
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,360
backgrounds.
You know, Adonis has given just

290
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,880
the briefest of introductions as
a child.

291
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,400
And you understand, like, yes,
growing up in foster homes or in

292
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,520
the the system made him a
fighter, made him angry.

293
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,840
And he doesn't.
He has this conflicted feeling

294
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,080
about his dad, who is who is
dead, that he'll never know.

295
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,800
But it's really not until the
second-half of the movie that I

296
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,080
feel like they settle into how
to explore those things when

297
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,480
those things really should have
been moved up into the first

298
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,560
half of the movie.
But the first half of the movie

299
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,319
is just a series of things that
happen, and I feel like I really

300
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:08,040
had to push through those things
to get to the enjoyable parts of

301
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,400
the movie.
Yeah, it feels like the South

302
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,119
Park, like and then this happens
and then this happens and then

303
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,319
this happens and not enough of
it has a motivation.

304
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,200
And and I think Michael B Jordan
is trying to play this

305
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,000
mysterious motivated figure
where like nobody knows why he's

306
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,120
doing what he's doing.
He could have had a cushy job.

307
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,720
He he could have coasted off his
dad's name, but he's trying to

308
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,720
do these things to prove
himself.

309
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:40,200
And like when he is in the ring,
I think it's right before the

310
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,720
final round and he looks at
Rocky and Rocky's like, what are

311
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,960
you trying to prove?
Sorry, sorry.

312
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:52,240
Wouldn't try to prove, man.
And he looks at him and goes

313
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:57,240
that I'm not a mistake.
I'm like, I almost started

314
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,880
crying, Bob, because I'm like
that, like that.

315
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,000
How many human beings have you
met in your life that are trying

316
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,600
to prove that exact thing?
So like, if you give me that

317
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,920
motivation a little more
clearly, he doesn't even

318
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,840
necessarily have to say it out
loud.

319
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,280
But I don't feel like that was
communicated well enough

320
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,280
throughout the film.
It felt like just a generic, I'm

321
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,960
angry for no reason, and I wish
you'd gotten a little more

322
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,120
clarity on that point because it
would have made the rest of the

323
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:32,560
movie much more endearing and
intense, and it would have drawn

324
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,800
me in way, way more deeply.
The turning point of this movie

325
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,440
comes at about the midway point
when you find out that Rocky has

326
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,800
been diagnosed with cancer and
that throws Adonis into a sense

327
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,400
of disequilibrium.
Right after that, he gets in a

328
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,640
fight at one of his girlfriend's
concerts and and embarrasses

329
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,720
her.
She tells him to go the hell

330
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,640
away for a while and figure out
his stuff.

331
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,520
He ends up being held in a a a
jail cell for the night.

332
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,720
And Rocky comes and tries to
apologize to him because Rocky

333
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,800
has also pushed Adonis away
after his diagnosis.

334
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,320
And you see in Michael B Jordan,
you know, he starts crying like

335
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,360
a little kid.
I think it's the best his his

336
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,000
best scene in the movie, Michael
B Jordan, but you see that his

337
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,040
response is to push people away
because he expects to be

338
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,680
abandoned.
He clearly has abandonment

339
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,040
issues.
And I think from that moment on,

340
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,080
I really love the direction that
Coogler goes because you don't

341
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,640
necessarily get these big Oscari
speeches of him apologizing to

342
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,880
people and overcoming his own
inner demons.

343
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,560
It happens in very small
moments.

344
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,200
Most of the conversations in
this movie are there's no music

345
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,400
there, you know, two people
sitting in an apartment having

346
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,400
dinner or something.
And I really, really love the

347
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:55,280
way that this movie double s
down on being mournful about

348
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,000
what people have lost or their
regrets in life.

349
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:05,560
And also, I guess, just like
embracing the flaws of all of

350
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,000
its characters because, to be
frank with you, the first half

351
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,480
of the movie.
They weren't doing a good job of

352
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,560
establishing why Adonis is kind
of an asshole.

353
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,560
Like he's really full of
himself.

354
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,120
He's super cocky.
And I, he wasn't a compelling

355
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:22,440
character.
And I was like, man, I don't

356
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,320
remember if you.
If you look like that, would you

357
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,160
not be?
I mean, 100% hockey.

358
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,960
Let's let's return to our
discussion of his body and face.

359
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,240
What do you say?
Obviously, But I, I think that I

360
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,680
was watching the movie saying
like, oh, I didn't remember him

361
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,640
being this much of a Dick.
And then once you finally

362
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,960
understand why he's being a
Dick, I think the whole movie

363
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,240
clicks really well.
And it's it's a much more gentle

364
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,840
movie than you're expecting it
to be, punctuated by this

365
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,480
incredible fight sequence at the
end of the film.

366
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,000
So I say all that to say, I
think the second-half of the

367
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,960
movie is really well done, both
in its quiet moments and it's

368
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,760
big, loud, you know, set pieces.
But that first half just felt

369
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,280
tonally confused and
underwritten and just kind of

370
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,880
off.
Yeah, it, it, it drains the

371
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,120
energy out of the movie before
it even really starts, which is

372
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,400
really unfortunate because I, I
do think there are certain

373
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,040
elements that they get right.
As somebody who lived in Philly

374
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,640
for a year and, you know, I
lived there 2013 to 14.

375
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,400
So like, probably while they
were filming this or, you know,

376
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,160
close to it, they got a lot of
Philly things right about the

377
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,280
movie that I appreciated.
Fun fact, cheese steaks are the

378
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,920
greatest thing that humanity has
ever created.

379
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,200
People in Philly call everything
John and there are like roaming

380
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,760
gangs of teenagers on dirt bikes
pulling wheelies everywhere.

381
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,280
Those were three things that
they nailed in this movie.

382
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,120
Let's let's talk a little bit
about the image making in this

383
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:59,080
movie because, you know, this is
not Dune, right?

384
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,880
Like, you're not just going to
take a screenshot of some of

385
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,880
this and be like, wow, look at
the cinematography.

386
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,320
But I do think that Coogler is
doing a lot with the camera

387
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,160
there.
There are quite a few sequences.

388
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,960
Adonis's first fight is all
filmed as one continuous shot

389
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,240
that circles both participants
repeatedly.

390
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,640
I think it's just really cool
how they're trying to do more

391
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,400
visually interesting things than
just kind of over the shoulder.

392
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,160
Here's a punch landing, and that
will cut to the other guy and

393
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,520
there's a punch landing.
There are moments in this movie

394
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,280
that I'm like, all right, yeah,
I can see how you're kind of

395
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,160
elevating what is essentially a
very basic boxing story.

396
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,160
The shot of all those dudes
circling him on their AT VS as

397
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,960
he's like cheering on Rocky up
in the window.

398
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
It's such a good shot, you know,
And I think of like at the end

399
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,880
of the movie when pretty boy
Ricky emerges from the darkness

400
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,440
by the guy that blowing fire.
I was going to say shot.

401
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,920
Dude, and, and something I've
commented on before, Coogler had

402
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,720
the balls to let the screen be
black for a solid 10 seconds.

403
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,200
Like you slowly zoom in, you
know, all the cell phones are

404
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,960
on, the arena is black, but it's
still dimly lit.

405
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,840
But he finally gets to the point
where the camera is so close to

406
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,200
the entrance that the entire
screen is pitch black and the

407
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,800
music is playing and it's
ominous and it sits there for 10

408
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,800
freaking seconds.
And it's long enough for your

409
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,120
anticipation to truly rise and
for you to go, man, I don't know

410
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,920
what's about to happen.
And then all of a sudden there's

411
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,600
a dude spitting fire three times
in a row and like the way he

412
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,040
walks in through the fog and
there's like 4 guys holding

413
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,800
championship belts behind him.
And like, it almost looks like a

414
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,040
cult.
Like it is so freaking cool.

415
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,480
Probably one of the best, like
boxing entrances in a movie.

416
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,760
This movie does a really good
job of building 2 specific

417
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,120
moments.
And I think this is a good

418
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,560
jumping off point for us to
just, let's just talk about the

419
00:23:54,560 --> 00:24:00,280
last 25 minutes of that boxing
sequence because it's done very

420
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,560
deliberately.
Like it starts out as, you know,

421
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,240
medium shots of they're feeling
each other out.

422
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,600
And then, Oh my God, Creed's
getting his ass kicked in the

423
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,960
first round.
And then I think it's in the end

424
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,560
of the second round where they,
they get each other on the ropes

425
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,960
and there's just a flurry of
punches and the sound design,

426
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,000
the way the camera is a little
bit closer on them and the

427
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,680
editing, the rapid cutting
there, it immediately propels

428
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,480
that.
Like I, I started that.

429
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,760
It's like the meme of the guy
sitting on a chair that then

430
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,760
like you see the arrow and he
just leans forward.

431
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,440
That was me watching this
because it started out a really

432
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,040
simplistically shot and edited
sequence.

433
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,720
And as it goes on, they're
throwing so many different

434
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,640
filmmaking techniques at you
from that second, second round

435
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,080
to like the third or fourth
round.

436
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,880
You see, like they do this whole
thing where the lights go dim

437
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,880
because you're trying to get
inside of Creed's head.

438
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,920
That was really cool.
And then it starts to become

439
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,080
kind of more abstract with these
really quick insert shots of the

440
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,400
bell and blood spraying on the
canvas.

441
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,000
And I just, I think that it's
one of the better boxing

442
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,280
sequences I've ever seen in a
movie.

443
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,720
I mostly agree, I actually
really did not like the part

444
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,520
where like the lights fade and
it gets a little quieter and

445
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,280
it's, I can't remember if
they're like heavily backlit or

446
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,960
forlit, but like the lighting
changes and it that part totally

447
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,320
threw me off.
I, I think for me, because I

448
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,200
have better cinema cinematic
decision making chops than Ryan

449
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,920
Coogler does.
Obviously, I, for me, I wish

450
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,240
that he had done a traditional
boxing fight with a lot of the,

451
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,600
the insert shots that you were
talking about, like sprinkled in

452
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,560
throughout, because I'm with
you.

453
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,560
That part was like, oh, I've not
seen that before in a boxing

454
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,640
film.
It reminded, it reminded me of

455
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,600
like a Edgar Wright light.
Like it's not quite as solid as

456
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,080
this phone slamming or, you
know, some of the stuff that he

457
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,200
does.
But it reminded me of that style

458
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,240
of like insert shots that like
add to the tension of the scene

459
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,960
and the bell ringing.
And that part was really, really

460
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,800
awesome.
I think that what Coogler's

461
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:24,120
trying to do there is pay homage
to the great boxing sequences of

462
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:27,160
movies of the past without
ripping them off, right?

463
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,480
Like to just give it one or two
shots to acknowledge.

464
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,120
Like, hey, here's a shot of
blood spraying on the canvas,

465
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,320
and it's done in the style of
Martin Scorsese so that I can

466
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,200
acknowledge Raging Bull, right?
Here's a shot of Adonis getting

467
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,280
uppercutted and his whole body
lifting off the mat.

468
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,840
And we're going to film it in
slow motion because there's that

469
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,560
really cool boxing sequence in
the movie Snatch where Brad Pitt

470
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,640
gets knocked back like that.
Like there there's definitely

471
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,000
small tributes to movies like
that, but I.

472
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,200
You know what I wish?
You know what I wish they gave a

473
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,200
tribute to What's that?
Charlie Chaplin is boxing.

474
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,680
Somebody, somebody needed to get
the the cord from the bell

475
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,600
wrapped around their neck so
that every time they lean

476
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,120
forward, it dinks.
But I said all that about the

477
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,720
the building to moments, because
there's two moments at the

478
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,960
climax of this fight that are
just freaking fantastic.

479
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,520
And the first is after Creed
gets knocked down and is

480
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,880
completely unconscious.
You get the great little editing

481
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,360
of small moments flashing before
his eyes that spring him back to

482
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:32,480
life.
And I love that that moment's

483
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160
not overdone.
It's just like, dude, go ahead.

484
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,480
Springs him back to life.
Like he just got freaking clear.

485
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,840
Yeah.
Like a like a Mia Wallace with

486
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,800
the adrenaline shot in Pulp
Fiction.

487
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,760
Yeah, I love.
That and then you get the moment

488
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,760
of he's he's Rocky's looking him
in the eyes and says, I want you

489
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,040
to say it.
I'm going to knock that son of a

490
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,360
bitch down.
And he says it.

491
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:00,240
And the second he gets up is the
first time you hear the the

492
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,000
Rocky theme flying high now in
the whole movie and it hits like

493
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,400
crack dude.
I was like cheering the second

494
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,080
that thing hit.
Absolutely, man.

495
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,560
Literally as we were getting on
the record, I was like humming

496
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,560
the Rocky theme.
It is such an incredible song,

497
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,160
guys.
Like if you haven't watched a

498
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Rocky movie in a while, a go
watch.

499
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,000
Watch a Rocky film.
Be be proud of being an

500
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,760
American.
Secondly, just go listen to the

501
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:39,120
song because it is one of the
best pieces of music ever

502
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,280
written for a movie.
Oh, it's so good.

503
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,960
And I actually do think that the
score to this movie does a

504
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,960
really good job of paying
tribute to that.

505
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,520
There's a lot of horns used in
the score of this movie, and

506
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,120
they give Creed his own theme,
which is catchy in its own

507
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,400
right.
Like it, it's not a knock

508
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,720
against it to say, oh, it's not
as memorable as one of the most

509
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,680
memorable pieces of music ever.
It's quite good.

510
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,200
And I love that they held off on
using the actual Rocky theme

511
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,680
until that moment because they
could have leaned too heavily on

512
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,000
it.
They could have overdone it.

513
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,040
But saving it for the moment
where you know the tide's about

514
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,160
to turn and he's like fully
embraced this underdog Rocky

515
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,600
mode, It's the perfect use of
that.

516
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,720
Yeah.
And that's like the the whole

517
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:26,000
story has been leaning into this
kid is going to be the perfect

518
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,760
combination of Rocky and Apollo
that's ever been.

519
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,240
And while they do that well with
their light motifs and music,

520
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,160
there are moments throughout the
film where like the announcers

521
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,160
at the start of the match like
essentially are like, this is a

522
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,520
combination of Rocky and Apollo.
But can that save him?

523
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,240
And there's A and even after the
match, there's a few direct

524
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,480
lines saying it.
And I'm like, Coogler, come on,

525
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,920
man.
Like we you don't got to say it

526
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,920
out loud.
Like we all we all picked it up.

527
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,240
What you're going for here?
What What were your thoughts on

528
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,920
having Max Kellerman so
prominently featured in the

529
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,840
movie?
It was weird, mostly because I

530
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,560
recognize him for what is it?
Is he on 1st take?

531
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,760
He used to be, yeah.
He hasn't been on ESPN in.

532
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,560
A couple years now, sure, but
like at the time he would have

533
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,920
been first take it.
It was one of those things where

534
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,000
it made me ask the question,
huh, did he do boxing announcing

535
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,200
in real life?
He did because like it it would

536
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,880
almost be so there you go.
It would be like if they if they

537
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,440
did made an MMA movie and Joe
Rogan was announcing that's.

538
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,880
Exactly what it.
Was and you didn't know that Joe

539
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,200
Rogan does MMA stuff?
Who's this ball?

540
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,840
Would be hard.
Yeah, it'd be hard to not know

541
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,880
that, but if you only knew him
from his podcast and then you

542
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,320
saw him in an MMA movie, it
would kind of take you out of

543
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,680
it.
That's what it did for me.

544
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,080
But like, that's my fault.
I if he actually announced

545
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,200
boxing in real life, then that's
I think that's a great pick up

546
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,240
by Coogler and the film.
I do kind of like it's nice to

547
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,720
have announcers in a boxing
movie.

548
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,840
I don't necessarily like that
the entire boxing sequence was

549
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,480
presented with their audio as if
we were watching it on HBO.

550
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Like, you know, if you watch the
original Rocky movie, those

551
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,000
those announcers are calling the
match.

552
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,560
But you do get moments where
it's just like diegetic sound.

553
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,680
And I think in this movie, it is
just narrated the whole time.

554
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,440
And after a while, I was like,
man, can we just get like, some

555
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,480
sort of, you know, reprieve from
this guy talking for 20 minutes?

556
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,000
I don't know if that stuck out
to you as much as it did to me,

557
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Brad.
It definitely did it.

558
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,680
It's the biggest detractor from
the fight.

559
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,960
And it's one of those things
where you can tell who sponsored

560
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,920
the film.
Like, this is very clearly the

561
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:54,800
World Boxing Association, HBO,
like basically saying, hey, we

562
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,040
don't have any money because of
this new thing, you know, myth,

563
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,720
mixed martial, mixed martial
arts.

564
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,720
And we need to make up the
audience somehow.

565
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,920
So get us another Rocky movie
and put HBO boxing on

566
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,080
everything.
All right, man, I think that

567
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,640
we're at a good spot to press
pause here.

568
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,280
We'll come back.
We'll talk a little bit more

569
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,480
about other movies that this
movie reminds us of.

570
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,640
But before we get there, let's
try some Barrel Seagrass.

571
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,480
What do you say?
Dude, no sweeter words have ever

572
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:34,640
come out of your mouth, Bob.
All right, so today we are

573
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,560
checking out Beryl Seagrass
Toasted.

574
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,560
Now if you are an avid listener
of the podcast, you'll remember

575
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,800
that just a few weeks ago we had
the founders and the the leaders

576
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,800
of the barrel company on our
podcast.

577
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,200
And at the time, they flashed a
bottle to us when I told them

578
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,520
that Brad's favorite whiskey was
Barrel Seagrass.

579
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,400
And they said, we just released
this really limited Barrel

580
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,880
Seagrass toasted.
We'll send you a bottle.

581
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,960
So here we are, Brad, each with
our own bottle, I would say.

582
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,640
Black Label baby.
Thank you very much to the folks

583
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:08,880
at Barrel for sending these to
us.

584
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,880
When you've opened hundreds of
bottles of whiskey, there is

585
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,800
something about opening like a
premium bottle and the cork is

586
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,720
heavy that you're like, oh, this
is going to be a good bottle.

587
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,000
Yeah, the weighted cork was not
expected, but definitely

588
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,880
appreciated.
So you may have heard us talk

589
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,560
about barrel seagrass in the
past.

590
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,200
This is a rye whiskey that is
finished in Martinique, rum,

591
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,240
Madera and apricot Brandy
barrels.

592
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,960
Now, what makes this one
different is that there's a

593
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,160
secondary maturation in toasted
American oak.

594
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,520
We've talked a lot, Brad, about
what toasted oak is as compared

595
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,920
to charred oak.
Basically, it's just a, you

596
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,880
know, they, they burn it for
less time.

597
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,080
It's supposed to draw out
different types of sugars and

598
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,000
flavors from the wood to impart
it into the whiskey.

599
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,040
I am not a big fan of toasted
barrel finishes.

600
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,720
There's I think it just makes it
too sour for me.

601
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,280
You've been a little bit more
hit or miss.

602
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,040
I've been pretty consistently
negative except for like one or

603
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,800
two.
Yeah, the there are some toasted

604
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,800
expressions that I've really
liked.

605
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,719
There are some toasted
expressions that are very

606
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,080
unimpressive to me.
It feels like one of those

607
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,600
movements in the industry that
we're still somewhat in the

608
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:30,120
early years of and it's going to
take distilleries a little while

609
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,560
to like figure out what works
with the toasted finish and what

610
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,440
doesn't.
So I, you know, I hope it leads

611
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,280
to a good place where toasted
finishes are like, you know, the

612
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,320
cream of the crop.
But as it is, I'm with you.

613
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,760
I, I'm a little, I don't want to
say leery.

614
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,560
I I think I'm a little cautious
when it comes to toasted

615
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,199
finishes.
Yeah, same man.

616
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:55,239
So this particular bottle clocks
in at 119.12 proof.

617
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,240
So it's a high proof whiskey
undisclosed sourcing, but

618
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,880
Indiana and Canada are listed on
here so we can at least guess

619
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,680
the Indiana side of things.
The mash bill is also

620
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,120
undisclosed, but the cost on
this is $200.00, so the.

621
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,080
Cost is disclosed.
This is.

622
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,920
Just hitting the beginning
stages of what we would call

623
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,920
premium whiskey, we typically
set that around 200.

624
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,760
We'll talk about the cost in a
little bit here.

625
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Brad, I'm drinking this live.
You've had it before.

626
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,680
Let's dive into our nosing
notes.

627
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,240
Bob, this is, I freaking love
seagrass, man.

628
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:37,280
The nose here, the rye comes
through a little more strongly

629
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,120
than I remember.
The classic seagrass.

630
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,800
So lots of rye, very minty.
There's some candied cherry,

631
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,600
some cheesecake, a bit of like
an almond almond extract nose.

632
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:56,800
There is a lot of really rich,
beautiful flavors here to go

633
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,960
with your rye minty goodness,
which is what I loved about the

634
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,000
original Seagrass.
I'm going to give this a 9 1/2

635
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,040
out of 10.
Yeah, I'm not quite as high as

636
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,040
you on this, but this is a damn
good nose.

637
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:13,480
I've realized with rye, Brad,
that I'm not as much of A rye

638
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,760
guy as you are.
But when I want to rye, I want

639
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,800
it to be all the way rye.
Like I wanted to smell like dill

640
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,240
and mint and spicy and a little
sour.

641
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,800
And this one, it like it hints
at that.

642
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,640
You get some rye notes, you get
the mintiness, you get just a

643
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,200
hint of the sour.
But it it doesn't smell like a

644
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,280
really rye forward rye.
Now, if you are a bourbon

645
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,000
drinker and you don't usually
dip your toe into rye, that

646
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,600
might be a good thing.
What I do pick up, aside from

647
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,160
the rye notes, Brad, is like a
whole bunch of different kinds

648
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,000
of Wrigley's gum.
Like the green wrapper spearmint

649
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,760
gum with the powderiness is
definitely on this.

650
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,800
I get a little bit of just
bubble gum and I also get like

651
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,000
Juicy Fruit gum on this.
Like the fruit notes on here are

652
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,680
a little more bubble gum
oriented than actual.

653
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,120
Like I don't get a lot of real
orange or pear or lemon on this.

654
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,840
A full panoply of gum, if you
will.

655
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,880
Oh man, back when we were kids
and you could actually get the

656
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,480
five pack of Wrigley's gum for
$0.25.

657
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,120
Yeah, dude, man, your boy used
to be chewing gum all the time,

658
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,440
right?
I'm going to give this an 8.5 on

659
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,080
the nose.
I think the palette here is

660
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,760
incredible.
There is rye, there's caramel.

661
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,120
The sweet mint really comes
through.

662
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,280
It reminded me of like a Cherry
Tootsie pop at certain points.

663
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:38,120
There's apple peel.
I almost, it almost dove into

664
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:43,120
like a candy ginger note for me
that I thought was really

665
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,440
delicious.
I I'm it's not perfect.

666
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,000
It's close.
I'm going to give it a nine out

667
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,960
of 10 on the on the taste here.
I popped this last week.

668
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,280
I had a friend come in from out
of town and stay with me.

669
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,480
We both tried it immediately
after popping it and I was like,

670
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:04,320
huh, I don't like this nearly as
much as regular seagrass and it

671
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,960
I was pretty let down at first.
It's been sitting here for a

672
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,800
week and I am significantly
different on it than I was last

673
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,600
week, Brad and once again I'm
going to get into my my the

674
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,360
annals of Bob as a fat guy who
eats candy lore.

675
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,560
The note that I get on this that
is fruity is gummy Peach rings.

676
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:31,120
I love Peach rings and this has
like a a slightly artificial

677
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,760
candy Peach flavor to it that I
have absolutely never gotten on

678
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,680
any of Beryl's products before
the rise there.

679
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,760
I do get that toasted influence
right at the front it it just

680
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,640
coats your mouth differently
than a non toasted finish does.

681
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,720
I don't quite know how to
explain it, but it's there's

682
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:53,240
lots of citrus, there's a good
rich carmeliness to it and then

683
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:54,920
you get Peach rings underneath
that.

684
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,160
This is insanely drinkable.
If we're talking about crush

685
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,400
ability, I think this is more
crushable.

686
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,760
Maybe the regular seagrass would
be Brad.

687
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,080
I'm going to give it a nine out
of 10.

688
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,680
Yeah, crushable is a great word
for it.

689
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,480
I think in the finish is where
this thing just is.

690
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,080
Lights out for me.
The the peppermint and dill come

691
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,960
through really strong.
The the rye spices there.

692
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,480
The almond turns into like this
really nice bright almond

693
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,520
extract.
There's pear.

694
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,240
It's got like a whipped cream
creaminess to it.

695
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,080
I am just blown away.
I I think that this finish

696
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,760
reminds me of why I love
seagrass so much.

697
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,640
So I am going to give it a 10
out of 10 here on the finish.

698
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,240
Yeah, I think I'm going to be at
a 9.5 on the finish that the

699
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,880
grape influence comes back and
it really is.

700
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,840
It's like it's a cream, like a
cream saver with grape influence

701
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,440
from those Madera casks, I would
imagine.

702
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,200
And I think that apricot Brandy,
it was really present on the

703
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,120
palate.
You know, I think I mentioned

704
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,400
this in our original Seagrass
review.

705
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,240
I didn't pick up a lot of
apricot on original seagrass.

706
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,280
It's definitely here in this
version.

707
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,520
And I think this might actually
be one of the first toasted

708
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:15,200
influence barrels that we've had
that I I can see that that

709
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,400
toasted barrel brought out the
flavors from the other barrels

710
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,280
even more.
It's made everything.

711
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,560
Amplified.
So I'm going to be at a nine out

712
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,600
of 10 on the finish and I think
I'm going to be at a 9.5 out of

713
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,640
10 on the balance, Brad.
Yeah, I'm also at a 9.5 out of

714
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,680
10.
On balance, this thing has rich,

715
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,640
decadent, beautiful flavors
paired with really beautiful

716
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:47,520
spicy rye minty goodness and it
finishes with that incredible

717
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,880
creaminess.
I, Bob Barrel continues to be

718
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,040
one of the best producers of
whiskey in the world right now.

719
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,720
They are putting out such
delicious whiskey that I like.

720
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,880
I can't help myself, man.
This stuff is incredible.

721
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,280
All right, let's talk about the
$200 price point.

722
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,240
So regular seagrass I believe is
like $90.00 right?

723
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,000
Yeah, I think it's like 85 in
the state of Ohio, but yeah,

724
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,440
it's right around there all.
Right.

725
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,080
So yes, they are using an
additional barrel in the

726
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,840
finishing process here.
Does that merit just, if we're

727
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,480
just talking about the labor
part of it, not even factoring

728
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:33,400
in the juice yet, Brad, does
that merit an over 100% increase

729
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,200
in cost?
Because I don't think it does.

730
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,480
I would give regular barrel
seagrass A10 out of 10 on value

731
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,760
all the way up to like $120.00.
Like I I think it is that good.

732
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,680
With that being said, I think
that this is just about as good

733
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,480
of a product as Barrel Seagrass.
Insanely crushable, really

734
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:04,240
complex and delicious.
At $200, I think I'll give it a

735
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:08,080
7 out of 10.
Like I still think it's a decent

736
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,400
value.
It's not an 8 or a nine out of

737
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,480
10 on value.
Like you're, you're hitting the

738
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,280
point where I'm like, yeah, $200
makes sense for this.

739
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,800
But that like if a price makes
sense for something that doesn't

740
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,360
make it a great value.
Like Rebel 100 is a great value

741
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,000
because it should cost you $34
and it costs you 20.

742
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,720
That's why it's a 10 out of 10
value.

743
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,480
So I, I think that this is a
good price for it in the sense

744
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:38,680
of is it worth the juice I'm
getting out of the bottle, you

745
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,040
know, but is it like a great
value?

746
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,160
Like, man, what a bargain.
Like, like, no, it's $200.

747
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,080
Yeah, and I think that's why I
asked the question, you know,

748
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:52,680
because I, I try to marry the
market with the the labor

749
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,640
intense process with the actual
quality.

750
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,040
So there's like three things I'm
considering now.

751
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,680
I think market wise they've
already established that they

752
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,520
sell higher priced whiskeys and
for a reason.

753
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,360
So I don't have a problem with
them having a $200 product.

754
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,920
Where I start to look at it is
like, does this drink like a

755
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,400
$200 product?
Yes.

756
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,240
So yeah.
OK, We've got a check mark on

757
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:17,840
two of the three boxes.
Does the actual labor involved

758
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,720
necessitate a $200 price tag?
I don't think so.

759
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,000
Like I think that if they wanted
to sell this for 1:50, they

760
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,400
could.
Now, I'm not going to Ding it

761
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,120
too much for that, but I do
think that just based on we've

762
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,400
added one more barrel to the
mix, so now we're going to

763
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,280
charge, you know, twice as much.
That seems a little steep to me.

764
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,840
So I'm going to come down to a
7.5 out of 10 on the value.

765
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,600
I still think it's a good value,
but I'm with you Brad that it

766
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,600
could be a better value.
However, that still brings me

767
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,720
out to a 43.5 out of 50 for one
of my highest scores of the

768
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:56,320
season.
Yeah, I'm, I'm at a 45 out of 50

769
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,040
Bob.
Yep.

770
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,560
Like this is a 90 plus out of
100 for me.

771
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,440
This is an absolute no brainer.
I think it's worth buying a

772
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,280
bottle or a pour at the bottom.
Yeah.

773
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,400
And if you take out my value
score, I'm at like a 36 out of

774
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,120
40.
So I also think that if we're

775
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,240
just talking about what's in the
glass, this is a 90 plus out of

776
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:19,520
100 whiskey.
It is a no brainer

777
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,560
recommendation for me.
If you are willing to plunk down

778
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,880
$200.00 on the counter at your
local liquor store for anything,

779
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,400
this would be one of my highest
recommendations.

780
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,520
If you're trying to get into rye
for the first time, like you

781
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,080
know, maybe don't spend $200.00
on this may maybe spend 85 on on

782
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,600
the barrel seagrass.
But you know, there's a lot of

783
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,240
good Ryze out there for 30 to
$45.00.

784
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:45,520
Try some Ryze, see get your sea
legs, see if it is worth your

785
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,680
time and effort and money.
But if you like rye, this is an

786
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,480
absolute.
No brainer.

787
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,920
All right, Brad, let's get back
into talking about Creed.

788
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,000
What do you say?
Let's get to it.

789
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,920
All right, everybody.
That was Beryl toasted seagrass,

790
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,000
a whiskey that just man.
Just like I hope this movie

791
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,360
would do, took me back to a time
of happiness and enjoyment and

792
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,160
where where things were just
beautiful and wonderful.

793
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,440
I'm literally sending a text
message.

794
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,640
I don't usually do this while we
record Brad, but I'm sending a

795
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:25,200
text to my buddy sigh right now
and telling him dude, this got

796
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,400
10 times better than it was when
we first popped the cork on it.

797
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,040
I feel badly, but also now I get
all of it to myself, you know?

798
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,600
Yeah, it it's not going to be
another Jack Daniels.

799
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,920
What was it, the triple?
Match that you.

800
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,280
Gave away it's.
Not happening.

801
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:46,400
It's not happening, man.
Before we get into Canada's

802
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,080
favorite segment, I just want to
say I think one of my favorite

803
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:56,600
things about this movie was it
like cemented the barely

804
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,200
alternate universe.
Like, you know, usually when we

805
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,840
talk about an alternate
universe, it's like, you know,

806
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,480
aliens coming in and destroying
New York City.

807
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,560
In a Marvel movie like this,
this alternate universe is the

808
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:13,400
most believable alternate
universe where Rocky Balboa is

809
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,680
real.
Like, like that's the only thing

810
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,600
that's changed.
Everything else is exactly the

811
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,760
same.
And it, it makes sense because

812
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,600
like there's a, an actual Rocky
Balboa statue in real life in

813
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,840
front of the Philadelphia Museum
of Art.

814
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,480
And there's there's something in
me that was like, this movie

815
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:37,080
captures what I would want to be
true if Rocky was a real person.

816
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:41,240
And it felt so believable that
he's just like rolling around

817
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:44,280
Philly.
Like a bro knows everybody knows

818
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,040
the cops, knows the kids, knows
the doctors.

819
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,960
And everybody's just like, hey
champ, how you doing?

820
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,240
I think the most interesting
decision in that whole thing,

821
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:56,000
though, is that at the end of
the movie when they scale the

822
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,640
stairs to the museum, they've
removed the Rocky statue or they

823
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,800
at least don't show it because I
don't exactly know where it's

824
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,400
at, but I'm pretty sure it's
like center at the top of those

825
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,000
steps.
So I think it's not.

826
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,000
Oh, OK, OK.
Is it off to the side somewhere

827
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,200
it.
It's, if I remember correctly,

828
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,800
you know how they like.
There's the stairs and then a

829
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,960
little landing platform and more
stairs.

830
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,320
I think it's the second to the
top, kind of to the right.

831
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,760
OK so I don't know if they
digitally removed it or not, but

832
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,600
I thought it was interesting
that they didn't show it,

833
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,120
suggesting that in this universe
there is no rocky statue.

834
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,000
Well, at the start of the movie
they show it.

835
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,600
Oh, do they show it?
Yeah, because at some point when

836
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,480
he first gets to Philly, he goes
up to the Museum of Art and like

837
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,640
the tourists are taking a
picture in front of it and then

838
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,640
he's looking at it and then it
cuts to him at at Adrian's.

839
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:51,440
Oh, I totally forgot about that.
OK.

840
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,720
But I think that Coogler was
going where you were thinking

841
00:47:55,720 --> 00:48:01,320
Bob with like, at the end of the
film, like Adonis has taken on

842
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,760
the role of Rocky.
Like, he's the underdog who has

843
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,920
the fame of Rocky but also the
underdog mentality.

844
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,640
And now it's up to him to carry
on the legacy of the name.

845
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:18,480
Which brings me back to Disney
Star Wars and how Ray never

846
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,400
deserved the name of Skywalker
that she, just like, maliciously

847
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,040
takes at the end of the trilogy.
All right, man, let's get into

848
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,880
two facts and a falsehood.
He's going to try to stump you.

849
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,360
Ball 2 are right and what is
wrong?

850
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,120
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts
and a Falsehood is the part of

851
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,040
the show where Brad presents me
with three items as fact about

852
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,160
the making of this movie, one of
which is a complete lie.

853
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,080
Brad, I'm doing quite well this
season and I say this every

854
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,720
week, but I did absolutely no
research into the background of

855
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,000
this movie.
And in fact, I did so little

856
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,760
research that I have already
lied to the people and I need to

857
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,520
give a quick correction.
This movie was not nominated for

858
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,280
Best Picture.
I was 100% convinced that it was

859
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,240
and I am not usually wrong about
these things.

860
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:12,320
So I my memory was just way off
on this movie, but the only

861
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,880
Oscar nomination it received was
for Sylvester Stallone as Best

862
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,760
Supporting Actor.
Film and Whiskey Nation.

863
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,400
I've been trying to shield you
from this for a long time, but

864
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:28,040
meet Bob Book, Notorious Liar.
Bob Book, as it turns out,

865
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,560
fallible human being.
How dare you?

866
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,040
All right man, hit me with your
two facts and a falsehood.

867
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:39,360
Fact #1 Sylvester Stallone was
69 years old when this film was

868
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:44,480
released, which was the same age
as the one and only Burgess

869
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,800
Meredith when Rocky was released
in 1976.

870
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,200
Fact number two.
The first drafts of the script

871
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,160
for Creed, there actually was a
competition between writer Ryan

872
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,840
Coogler and Aaron Covington, who
each presented Sylvester

873
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,720
Stallone with a version of the
script that had many similar

874
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:07,880
beats, but with one featuring
Apollo Creed's son and the other

875
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,800
Ivan Drago's.
Much of the Drago's story was

876
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,680
then transferred into the sequel
Creed 2.

877
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,120
Fact #3 The Olympic gold medal
that Danny Stuntman Wheeler,

878
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,760
played by Andre Ward, shows off
in the HBO promo scene is real

879
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,160
and belongs to Andre Ward, who
was a boxer in real life that

880
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:36,160
won the light heavyweight title
medal at the 2004 Summer Games

881
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:42,120
in Athens.
Wow, these are really good.

882
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:47,440
Brad, I will out myself here and
say that when you watch a film

883
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,440
on Amazon Prime and you hit
pause at any point, they have

884
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,320
this thing, I can't remember
what it's called, but like they

885
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,080
have the little trivia pop up on
the side.

886
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,000
X-ray, X-ray.
One of the X-rays was the thing

887
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,040
about Stallone being the same
age as Burgess Meredith.

888
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:05,360
So I I saw that one.
So I'm sorry but.

889
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,320
Dang it.
Yeah, well, somebody copied and

890
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:14,640
pasted that either from Amazon
into the IMDb fax list or from

891
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,680
the IMDb fax.
List into Amazon, Yeah, What if

892
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,880
it's just not true and Amazon's
just, you know, culling stuff

893
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,480
from the Internet to put on?
OK.

894
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,680
So it's either would you put it,
would you put it past Amazon?

895
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,200
Not at all, not even a little
bit.

896
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,240
It's either two or three, and I
really don't know.

897
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:33,720
This is a complete shot in the
dark.

898
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,960
Creed 2 was a movie about Ivan
Drago's son.

899
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,440
And then what was the remind me
of the third one, Brad?

900
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,400
The the the first guy that he
fights in the middle of the

901
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,520
movie is an actual boxer that
won Athens 2004 lightweight.

902
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,320
I'm going to say 3 is the
falsehood.

903
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,320
I have no, absolutely no basis
for that, but I'm just going to.

904
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,280
It's got to be one of the two
I'm going with #3 Brad, final

905
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,080
answer.
I I love your Meh.

906
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,160
It's a 5050 shot.
There's a very coin of Destiny

907
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,640
feel.
About this box very much so.

908
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:18,920
You are absolutely incorrect.
Yeah, I already filled the L in

909
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,040
on our sheet here.
Brad.

910
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,400
I didn't feel great about that
one.

911
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,080
Yeah, well, it's usually because
I don't trust you to do any

912
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,800
amount of extra research into
anything we do.

913
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,680
So the fact that you even went
and looked up what Creed 2 was

914
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,360
about to write that falsehood,
it says a lot about your

915
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:40,400
commitment here.
I so I wrote that fact and then

916
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,760
at some point when you talked
about there this being a series,

917
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,360
I was like, hold up a second.
I feel like I remember one of

918
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,000
the other ones being about
Drago.

919
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,440
So I quickly like looked it up
and was like Creed two plot and

920
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,400
was like ha ha.
I did have Drago's son.

921
00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:58,400
So I went in and like just
typed.

922
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,520
Much of Drago's story has been
transferred to the sequel, Creed

923
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:02,480
two.
There you go.

924
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,280
Give it the authenticity.
That was while we were

925
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,560
recording, folks.
Look at that, I'm texting

926
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,840
people.
Brad's doing last minute

927
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,400
revisions to two facts and a
falsehood.

928
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,760
It paid off this week, man.
I took the L and I think that's

929
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,720
now my fifth loss on the season.
Brad, this is actually our 16th

930
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:24,200
movie of the season, so we're
halfway through season #9 we've

931
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,560
done it.
That's insane.

932
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,800
Yeah, I know.
We're moving quickly, man.

933
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,200
How many go ahead?
How many of the movies have we

934
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,160
declared as modern?
Classic, I was just going to ask

935
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,920
you, I don't have that number
down right now, but I mean just

936
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,480
kind of looking through the list
or just remembering what, what

937
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,920
do you think is our classic to
non classic ratio?

938
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,880
I would say like 33% would be my
thought.

939
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,560
I feel like we're we're at more
of a classic than a non classic

940
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,120
right now.
Yeah, I mean.

941
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,400
Oh, well, we'll, we'll get that
data to you Film and Whiskey

942
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,320
Nation.
We'll count to 16 next week.

943
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,840
We'll.
Crunch, crunch the numbers.

944
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,600
All right, man, let's dive back
into Creed.

945
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,120
And I can't get off of this Star
Wars thing, so I want to ask you

946
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,880
the way that they.
Treated normally, that's

947
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:14,760
normally that's my job.
I was going to say, you know,

948
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,640
usually I can't get away from
Star Wars quickly enough, But

949
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,360
you know, you brought up The
Force Awakens and I think that

950
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,560
The Last Jedi is actually a good
comparison to what they do to

951
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,640
the character of Sylvester
Stallone or Rocky in this movie.

952
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,480
And, and as a point of contrast,
right, I know that you hate the

953
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,840
Luke Skywalker treatment in The
Last Jedi.

954
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,760
And I'm wondering, does that
carry over to the way that they

955
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,440
treat Rocky here?
Now, there is additional

956
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,520
context, like you have the movie
Rocky 5 where Rocky and his son

957
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,840
have a falling out that's
referenced in this movie.

958
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,880
You have the additional context
of the 6th Rocky film, Rocky

959
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,880
Balboa, which I have never seen.
So I have no idea what bearing

960
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,600
that hat on his character in
this movie.

961
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,160
But it's not the same as The
Last Jedi where you just haven't

962
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,920
seen Luke in, you know, 40 years
and then now he's this old

963
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,880
curmudgeon.
Do you feel like they did Rocky

964
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,400
a disservice with him not being
involved in fighting anymore and

965
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,360
pushing people away, or did it
seem like a more natural

966
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,600
progression of his character
than it did with Luke?

967
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:23,200
Dude, from the very start of
Rocky, the very first film,

968
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,560
Rocky's just kind of a nobody
who likes his people, and at the

969
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,600
end of his life, he's a somebody
who just likes his people.

970
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:38,640
And at for me, I think they
absolutely wrap up his character

971
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,560
arc perfectly.
Like at this point in his life,

972
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,880
he has nothing left to prove.
He knows who the man in the

973
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,640
mirror is, staring back at him
like he's been through the most

974
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,760
difficult thing of his life.
And losing Adrian, his best

975
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:58,360
friend Apollo, that like, he
absolutely knows who he is.

976
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,200
Well, let me pull hold on 'cause
I think that you're you're

977
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,680
explaining his characters arc
throughout this movie.

978
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,160
When we first find him at the
beginning of the movie, he's

979
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:12,600
still trapped.
Morning Adrian, not letting

980
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,440
himself get past her.
You know, when he pushes Adonis

981
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,840
away in the middle of the movie,
he has that great moment where

982
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,400
he asks himself, like, what did
you just do?

983
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,560
You know, like he's still
immature in a lot of ways.

984
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:27,080
So I I'm specifically like where
we find him at the beginning of

985
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,480
the movie here, I think is much
more similar to where we find

986
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,600
Luke at the beginning of The
Last Jedi.

987
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,920
And that's why I was like, I
don't know if Brad will like

988
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,320
this or not.
As I was about to finish, I'm

989
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,640
sorry, I, I think that he had
one thing left to do as a

990
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,160
character and that is like pass
on who he is to the next

991
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,920
generation.
And like, that's what this movie

992
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,040
is about for.
Like, specifically for the

993
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:58,560
character of Rocky, it's all
about his opportunity to close

994
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:04,760
the book on boxing and pass on
not just his boxing skills, but

995
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,560
like, the life lessons that he's
learned along the way.

996
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:12,880
And he gets to be fall, you
know, he gets to be a real human

997
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,600
being who still makes mistakes
and isn't perfect.

998
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,760
But even as he says, like, why
do you say that?

999
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,920
Like, what are you doing, Rock?
Which, by the by, is there ever

1000
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,840
a more believable character in
the history of cinema that would

1001
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,240
talk out loud to himself then?
Rocky Balboa?

1002
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,320
Like when he's forced Gumper the
only two that could get away.

1003
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,840
With that exactly, when he says,
oh, come on, Rob, what are you

1004
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,440
doing?
I'm like no doubt in my mind

1005
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,120
that that is actually what's
happening.

1006
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,560
I don't, but it's it's like, go
ahead.

1007
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,600
But it's just like he, he's a
real human being who still makes

1008
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,320
mistakes, but the when he makes
the mistakes, it doesn't feel

1009
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:59,320
like he's a, a young protagonist
who's trying to come to grips

1010
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,960
with who he is.
It feels much more so like, come

1011
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:05,840
on Rock.
I, I know I'm better than that.

1012
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,680
Like, like, let's go it.
But it doesn't derail him or

1013
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,400
shatter him.
Whereas you brought it up, Bob.

1014
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,800
So.
So this is your fault.

1015
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:21,280
What Rian Johnson does to Luke
Skywalker as a character is an

1016
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,280
absolute horrifying travesty
that we've never seen the likes

1017
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,480
of in the history of movies.
There it is.

1018
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,560
So I brought this topic up.
I literally just thought of this

1019
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,840
a minute and a half ago and I
was like, this will be great to

1020
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,240
get Brad riled up and not
thinking about just how closely

1021
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,240
I actually think that their
character arcs parallel and

1022
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,120
hearing your justification of
it.

1023
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,600
It actually you could copy paste
that what you said about Rocky

1024
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,440
directly onto the character arc
of Luke on in the last Jedi and

1025
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,840
every point still hits.
And that's why I wonder why you

1026
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,440
see Rocky at the beginning of
this movie as a guy who has

1027
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:03,000
already come to embrace himself
and understand who he is,

1028
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,080
because it certainly still seems
like he has some things to work

1029
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,040
through.
You know, his his own defeatist

1030
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:13,160
attitude about getting cancer
until until that last moment in

1031
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,560
the ring when he says, hey, I'm
going to go home and fight this,

1032
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,160
I want you to fight too.
Like he hadn't actually really

1033
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,080
accepted it.
And so I, I don't see him as

1034
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,200
being as complete of a person at
the beginning of the film as

1035
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,040
maybe you did, where it sounds
like you think that he's pretty

1036
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,920
complete, but that he just has
like this one more thing to do

1037
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,280
to reach, you know, a higher
plane of Nirvana or something.

1038
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,080
A higher plane of Philadelphia
Nirvana.

1039
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,440
You just get to you just get to
bathe in the cheese whiz from

1040
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:50,760
from all the the cheese steaks.
That might sound gross, but it

1041
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,000
also might be the most beautiful
thing you'd ever get to do in

1042
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:55,760
your life.
If you're a Philadelphia and

1043
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:57,920
that is the dream, that is the
dream.

1044
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,760
You get to just float in Cheese
Whiz and then go to a sporting

1045
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,560
event and Chuck batteries on
someone.

1046
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,480
Dude, Philly's a wild city, man.
I'll tell you what.

1047
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:14,280
Oh geez, I I'm a little
sidetracked because I'm so

1048
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,120
frustrated that you would
compare Rocky Zarkier to Luke.

1049
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,040
There may be a similarness to
some of the beats.

1050
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,360
I I don't think all of them
match.

1051
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,880
I think the main thing is the
derision with which Johnson

1052
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,520
treats the past versions of Luke
and how Luke used to think about

1053
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:39,320
the world versus Coogler here,
who very obviously has respect

1054
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:44,280
for the character of Rocky and
he never tries to undermine who

1055
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,600
Rocky was.
I think what he does is he just

1056
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,960
has an honest conversation with
the audience about around what

1057
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:59,000
does it look like for a boxing
star to slowly age and to leave

1058
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:04,320
the boxing world, to not rely on
his name to get by, but to just

1059
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:08,840
kind of like open up a
restaurant and his wife's name

1060
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,200
and and he makes decent money.
Probably because it's rocky, but

1061
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,400
also because he probably has
good food and like like it.

1062
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,240
It kind of reminds me of the
whole story of, you know, like a

1063
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,680
South American fisherman who,
like, catches enough fish to

1064
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,240
feed his family.
And then he sleeps in the

1065
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,640
afternoon and the American comes
in and convinces him to make

1066
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,560
this giant fishing operation so
that he can make enough money to

1067
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,160
chill with his family in the
afternoon.

1068
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,440
Like, Rocky's the guy who's
like, I don't know, man.

1069
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,520
Like, I already did the thing.
I just kind of want to chill

1070
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:41,440
now.
I'm old.

1071
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,600
Leave me alone.
I think that if there's one more

1072
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,920
movie that we can draw
comparisons to, it's a film that

1073
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,480
we reviewed on the podcast
before, and it's 2011's Warrior,

1074
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,560
the MMA movie, where you have
this very interesting dynamic

1075
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:58,520
between two estranged brothers
and their very estranged father,

1076
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,440
who Nick Nolte is so freaking
good in that movie, man.

1077
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,880
It just blows my mind, I think,
how good he is in that movie.

1078
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,600
But this movie really does
borrow quite a bit from that.

1079
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,720
And I think between mirroring
the structure of the original

1080
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,360
Rocky, the the place where it
departs from the original Rocky

1081
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,520
is that Rocky is getting trying
to overcome the fact that

1082
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,720
everyone thinks he's a loser,
right?

1083
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:27,360
And we just talked about this
when we recorded our Season 10

1084
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:32,560
upcoming re record of the movie
On the Waterfront, and how much

1085
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,200
the Rocky character is
paralleling that Terry Malloy

1086
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,320
character.
Everyone thinks they're a bum,

1087
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,600
Everyone thinks they're stupid
and they can't overcome that.

1088
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,360
And that's his journey.
Whereas Adonis's journey is much

1089
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,480
more out of abandonment and past
trauma.

1090
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,960
And you get that folded in with
Rocky too.

1091
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,240
And one of the things I loved
tidbits that I learned from the

1092
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,800
Amazon X-ray thing was that
right before they recorded,

1093
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:02,120
right before they started
shooting this movie, Sylvester

1094
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,440
Stallone's oldest son died of a
heart attack.

1095
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,240
And then he almost pulled out of
the movie.

1096
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:11,080
And Coogler basically talked him
into reprising his role here in

1097
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,400
and kind of channeling that pain
into this father son

1098
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,080
relationship between Adonis and
Rocky.

1099
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:22,320
And I think that that's where
this movie departs from the

1100
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:26,440
original Rocky kind of mythos.
But I'm I'm curious to hear from

1101
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,520
you, Brad, remembering back to
when we did Warrior.

1102
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,160
Do you feel like this movie does
it as well as that one did?

1103
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,560
Like specifically as far as like
the father son.

1104
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,560
Father, son.
But also, like, yeah, I, I just

1105
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,640
feel like it has a lot more in
common with, like, these gritty

1106
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:47,560
people overcoming familial hurts
and traumas in a way that it's

1107
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,840
not, it's not so much like a
Rocky movie as it is like

1108
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,440
Warrior.
That is interesting.

1109
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:57,640
I think Warrior is.
I think there's just too much

1110
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,600
Rocky in the world of cinema to
make a sport about, to make a

1111
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:06,400
movie about punching people that
doesn't feel its influence.

1112
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:13,440
So I guess it's like this movie
in the Rocky universe is, I

1113
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,520
would agree imitating a movie
that's not in the Rocky

1114
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:21,800
universe, but in my opinion very
clearly has Rocky esque roots,

1115
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,680
especially in the familial
relationships of warrior.

1116
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,240
So are they are they comparable?
Yes.

1117
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,720
I I think that Warrior does it
better in the fact that it's

1118
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:38,040
fully removed from the Rocky
universe, whereas this one like

1119
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,400
for better or for worse, there
are elements where he's just

1120
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:46,480
following the beats of the
original Rocky film with a

1121
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,520
female lead who has more choice.
Yeah.

1122
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,360
I mean, if I can say clear
improvement on the original that

1123
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:59,720
that little tidbit is much much
more helpful this time around.

1124
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,920
Dude watching the original Rocky
in 2025, like I'm not going to

1125
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,160
judge it.
It is a it's a product of its

1126
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:08,800
time.
It's a one of the most most

1127
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,480
important American films ever
made.

1128
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,440
But the the way he treats Adrian
as she's like, she's like, no,

1129
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,120
don't kiss me.
And he kisses her.

1130
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,680
He's like, no, don't come in.
And he comes in and it's like.

1131
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,920
It's the same thing as on the
waterfront, like he breaks down

1132
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,000
her door and is like you will
kiss me now.

1133
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,440
Yeah, it's it's apparently a
very manly thing if you lived in

1134
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,600
the 50s, sixties or 70s.
Do not approve.

1135
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,080
So, OK, Brad, I think we're in a
good spot to get to our last

1136
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,680
segment of the day, which we
call let's make it a double.

1137
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,280
We're near the end of the
episodes of Things, listening to

1138
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,080
the film and Whiskey Show.
Let's pair another film with

1139
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:49,520
this one.
Even if it's struggling.

1140
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:50,880
It's the final segment of the
day.

1141
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,400
Now let's make it a double.
Let's Make It a Double is the

1142
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,560
part of the show where we pick a
movie to pair up with this one

1143
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,280
to make the perfect double
feature.

1144
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,240
Brad, I am going to go ahead and
pair this up with Warrior.

1145
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:02,600
I've already been talking about
it.

1146
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,960
I do think that these are
really, really similar movies,

1147
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,480
except that this one has a
bigger budget and the benefit of

1148
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,520
having the Rocky franchise
behind it to draw from.

1149
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,800
I don't know that that makes it
a better movie.

1150
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,960
And I think that it would be a
really interesting pairing to

1151
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:22,240
watch these back-to-back and
then kind of hash out the pros

1152
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:25,000
and cons of each, because
they're both damn good movies.

1153
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,680
They're really good sports
movies, and they're sports

1154
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,040
movies that are trying to get at
a little bit more under the

1155
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,480
surface than you typically get.
So I'm going to pair it with

1156
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,800
Warrior.
For all of the exact same

1157
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:41,560
reasons, I'll pair it with
$1,000,000 Baby I I think that

1158
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,960
$1,000,000 Baby is a better
version of this film where you

1159
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:51,440
actually get to dive into the
lives of the main characters and

1160
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,560
understand their motivations and
why they are who they are.

1161
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,480
And I I think that Coogler could
have learned something from

1162
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,560
$1,000,000 Baby.
I also think it would just be a

1163
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:05,520
a great boxing movie night.
You did pick the one movie that

1164
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,640
perhaps has worse written
characters than this than this

1165
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,080
one though.
Not all of them, just just.

1166
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,400
A few just just the hillbilly
family.

1167
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:20,840
I mean, I I also thought about
pairing it with Renee Zellweger

1168
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,760
and Cinderella Man.
I love.

1169
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,520
I cannot wait till we revisit
that one for season 10 bread.

1170
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,080
Oh dude, it's going to be great.
Can you imagine, though, if you

1171
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,880
like, if you have never seen
Creed or $1,000,000 baby, and

1172
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,120
you take Brad's advice on let's
make it a double and you're

1173
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,760
like, oh man, oh man, let's.
Creed Dollar baby second.

1174
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,520
I was going to say, yeah, like,
oh man, Creed lost his fight.

1175
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,680
Darn, that's kind of a bummer.
I sure hope this next movie ends

1176
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:51,880
on a more positive.
She spoiler alert, she loses her

1177
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:59,320
fight too.
And on that note, let us say

1178
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,440
that Let's Make it a Double is
sponsored by Blackwood

1179
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,400
Distilling Company.
This is what you're paying for,

1180
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,000
Zach.
No matter what movie you choose

1181
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,440
to pair up with Creed, you can
always make it a double with

1182
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,640
Blackwood Distilling Co.
Yeah, guys, if you haven't had

1183
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:20,479
it yet, get you some Blackwood.
It is stunningly delicious.

1184
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:26,000
Well worth every penny.
I I have been slowly nursing the

1185
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,240
last bottle that we got from
Zach like an addict.

1186
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:33,319
I need some more.
It is delicious.

1187
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:35,800
Go buy it.
Well, and I will also say in our

1188
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,479
review of the barrel toasted
seagrass today, I said I've only

1189
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,080
really ever liked one other
toasted product and it was

1190
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,479
Blackwood's rye.
So it's has now joined elite

1191
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,479
company here with Blackwood.
Brad, I think it's time for us

1192
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,479
to get into final scores here.
I'm going to give this movie an

1193
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:54,720
8.5.
I think perhaps I, you know, the

1194
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,560
way I talked about it suggested
that I don't like it as much as

1195
01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:59,479
I do.
I really do think the

1196
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,880
second-half of this movie is
approaching like a 10 out of 10

1197
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,880
level sports movie.
The first half really does drag

1198
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,640
it down for me, but you're left
on such a high note and I think

1199
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,840
that's the benefit of this movie
is if you're going to have 1/2

1200
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:14,600
of your movie be worse than the
other, it's got to be the first

1201
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,359
half.
And that's what this movie does.

1202
01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:19,399
I still walk out of here feeling
like feeling like I could run

1203
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:21,960
through a wall.
So I'm going to give this an 8.5

1204
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,240
out of 10.
Dude, I walked out of that movie

1205
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,120
thinking I need to do a million
push ups 'cause I want to look

1206
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,680
like Michael B Jordan.
We really need to explore the

1207
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,319
Freudian reasons that you keep
bringing up this man's body.

1208
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,040
I am going to give this a 7 out
of 10.

1209
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:44,000
Wow.
Like I I think it's an overall

1210
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,200
enjoyable movie.
I don't think any of the acting

1211
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:51,640
performances other than maybe
Sylvester are like really

1212
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,680
powerful and and really like
move me.

1213
01:09:55,000 --> 01:10:00,360
The final boxing match is like
just fine, with the insert shot

1214
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,600
sequence being really well done.
The what?

1215
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,480
What was her name?
Bianca, I think one of the least

1216
01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:12,040
memorable girlfriend characters
I think I've ever seen in a

1217
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:16,200
movie.
So overall I think there's a lot

1218
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,960
of issues with Creed, but on the
whole it is one of those.

1219
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,360
If it was just kind of on in the
background, I'd be like, yeah,

1220
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,480
that's fine.
Creed decent movie.

1221
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:29,960
Wow, I didn't expect you to be
quite so low on Creed.

1222
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:32,520
It's a good movie to me.
It's a very good movie.

1223
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,640
Is it an 8.5 is?
Is it a modern classic?

1224
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:40,840
Yes, with a caveat like you.
Know get out of here.

1225
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,720
I I don't think that it is
nearly as good as most of the

1226
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:46,520
movies that we're considering
modern classics.

1227
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,320
I think it's a modern sports
classic because we haven't

1228
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,080
really had very many good sports
movies in the last 20 years.

1229
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,040
It's it's got the Barry Bonds
asterisk.

1230
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,120
I mean like seriously though,
what other sports?

1231
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,400
Boxing movies?
Like I would put Warrior up

1232
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:05,000
there, but like we haven't had a
really great football movie in

1233
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,240
20 years.
The only good baseball movie is

1234
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,680
Moneyball.
Like, there's really not a lot

1235
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,240
of sports movies anymore.
What year did Remember the

1236
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,160
Titans come out?
2025 years old. 2000, Yeah,

1237
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,520
yeah.
Five years before what we're

1238
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,960
considering, I knew it was.
I was thinking it was like O3O4.

1239
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,000
It's kind of like with Elf, how,
you know, they say that no good

1240
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,560
Christmas movies have come out
since Elf and that's part of why

1241
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,840
it's such a classic.
Like it's, it's almost

1242
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:31,840
overinflated.
It's a great movie, but like

1243
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,800
each generation needs its movie.
And there really hasn't been a

1244
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:37,960
sports movie.
You haven't taught.

1245
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,240
You haven't seen Hot Frosty.
Come on now.

1246
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,320
Is Creed more of an elf or more
of a hot hot frosty?

1247
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:47,600
I guess is what I'm asking you,
Brad.

1248
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,560
I would say no.
Creed is not a modern classic.

1249
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,840
No Asterisk needed to say, well,
we haven't had a good sports

1250
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:56,480
movie so we might as well pick
this one.

1251
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,480
I mean, do you not think this is
the best sports movie of the

1252
01:11:59,480 --> 01:12:01,680
last 15 years?
20 years.

1253
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:05,520
I would.
I would have to do some

1254
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,120
research.
I have to get back to you with

1255
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:10,280
those numbers.
Crunch those numbers, crunch the

1256
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:13,000
digits.
All right folks, so it's a 7.75

1257
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,640
out of 10 for us on Creed, but
we'd like to know what you

1258
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:17,520
think.
You can always reach out to us

1259
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,240
and tell us what you think of
Creed and or any of the Rocky

1260
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:24,680
films at any of our social media
handles, Facebook, Twitter,

1261
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:28,760
Instagram, Tiktok or YouTube at
Film Whiskey.

1262
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,800
Or you can join the conversation
on our Discord.

1263
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,440
You can find a link to our
server at the end of every

1264
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:39,440
single one of our show notes.
Next week, we are pivoting into

1265
01:12:39,480 --> 01:12:42,320
a more recent movie, one of the
films remaining on our schedule,

1266
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:45,400
Brad, that I'm most excited to
talk to you about because our

1267
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,360
opinion on this movie has
definitely changed since we

1268
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,120
first saw it.
That is Everything Everywhere

1269
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,080
all at Once.
Join us for that one next week,

1270
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:57,200
but until then, I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad Gee.

1271
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,480
And we'll see you next time.